The Killing of Alex Pretti and ICE’s Terror in Minnesota

Summary

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Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams

Episode: The Killing of Alex Pretti and ICE’s Terror in Minnesota

Original Air Date: January 27, 2026
Host: Stacey Abrams
Guest: Erin Ryan (Writer, Political Commentator, Co-host of Crooked Media’s "Hysteria")

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Main Theme Overview

This episode confronts the extrajudicial killing of Alex Pretti by ICE agents in Minnesota—a tragic flashpoint in the ongoing crisis of state-sanctioned violence against immigrants and perceived dissenters under the current Republican administration. Stacey Abrams and Erin Ryan break down the escalation of federal militarized enforcement, the psychological and community toll, and draw connections between immigrant rights, democratic values, and the broader agenda of ethno-nationalism. The episode encourages resistance and provides actionable steps listeners can take in defense of both neighbors and democracy.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Moral Framing: Faith, Silence, and Resistance

• Abrams opens with a biblical meditation (Mark 8:36): “For what shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world but lose his own soul?” ([03:06])
  • Not solely for the powerful (e.g., Greg Bevino, Kristi Noem, Trump, J.D. Vance), this challenge is for all Americans.
  • Recites the names of recent victims killed by ICE or Border Patrol—emphasizing mounting, unaccountable violence.
  • Highlights the moral cost of silence and compliance: “What will it profit us to have silence, but to lose our souls in this moment?” ([07:34])
  • Discusses extortionate demands from the Republican-controlled DOJ towards Minnesota—requiring the state to yield voting and social data in exchange for ceasing federal incursions ([08:55]).

2. Propaganda, Tactics, and the Importance of Witnessing

• Republicans and ICE are deploying classic authoritarian tactics ([10:40]):
  • Criminalize victims, blame-shifting, smearing organizers and media, spreading disinformation.
  • Stacy stresses: “Because of Alex Pretti we cannot put our phones down… We cannot think that we are safe just because the person is off duty, because we have an armed invasion of law enforcement under the guise of federalism that is stealing our souls.” ([12:09])
  • Calls for active documentation, community aid, and amplifying reliable organizers—“Save videos, save posts, save statements before they disappear.” ([13:36])
  • Urges listeners to decide the risk they can personally bear and to “do something that worries you just a little bit more.” ([15:04])

3. Personal Testimonies: On-the-Ground in Minnesota

• Erin Ryan’s Response:
  • Emphasizes the cumulative trauma and horror from “so much death captured on film.” ([21:43])
  • Highlights the ideological threat: “ICE and the Trump administration is perpetuating this idea...they get to do whatever they want to whomever they want... even if they're the most in group of, in groups in... the American hierarchy.”
  • Notes personal/family impacts: Her sister, an ESL teacher in St. Paul, is distributing food and supplies because immigrant families are too afraid to leave their homes—even when following legal pathways ([24:44]).
  • Raises the chilling effect: “In America, your presence is insufficient to preserve your life...There is no label and no costume...no qualification that protects you anymore.” ([27:26])

4. Resistance and Community Solidarity

• Erin Ryan recognizes two dynamics:
  1. Fear and demoralization.
  2. Rapid, instinctive neighborhood self-organization and mutual aid, even among typically private communities ([34:16]).
     • “These people almost instinctively have organized their neighborhoods... the administration underestimated these people. Their ability to organize and their ability to stand up.” ([34:59])
  • Notes how federal overreach in Minnesota strains its capacity, but also exposes the regime’s lack of ability to instill true control on a national scale ([28:44]).

5. Political Accountability and Legislative Cowardice

• Abrams laments the inadequate response from both Congress and local authorities ([41:55]):
  • Example: Rep. LaMonica McIver faces a 17-year sentence for oversight at a migrant detention center, while others in Congress quietly provide more ICE funding.
  • Urges officeholders to demonstrate “opposition for the sake of opposition” when the system itself is compromised.
• Ryan is blunt: “I think right now people are very frustrated and kind of tired of... political bullshitting... speeches are good, but... somebody needs to do something besides make speeches. Somebody who has the power.” ([42:13])

6. Wider Agenda: Reproductive Rights and Ethnofascism

• Transition to abortion rights: Abrams and Ryan contextualize immigration enforcement as part of a “proto-natalist, Christian nationalist” agenda ([44:42]).
  • Focus on March for Life rally, the shift in anti-abortion movement post-Roe—their new obsession: banning medication abortion ([47:46]).
  • Key quote: “Banning abortion does not end abortion...making abortion more difficult to get just inconveniences people...The total number of abortions has gone up in the country—up 30%.” (Ryan, [50:11])
• Discuss J.D. Vance’s duplicity: He touts cuts to social programs and restrictive policies as “pro-family” while undermining actual family welfare ([51:38]).
• The expansion of the Mexico City Rule now targets DEI initiatives and Planned Parenthood; a further erosion of international and domestic rights ([56:40]).

7. Empathy, Messaging, and the Path to Change

• Ryan stresses the need to underscore:
  • Lawmakers don’t understand medicine—lawyers shouldn’t be scripting healthcare policy ([63:51]).
  • Restrictive abortion laws endanger everyone, regardless of status.
  • The empathy argument: “What happens to them could happen to you, your sister, your mother, your best friend... Biology does not discriminate.” ([66:52])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Stacey Abrams [03:22]:
  “In less than a month into 2026, Republicans, not ICE, not Trump—Republicans—now have the blood of eight people on their hands. And the reason this matters is that this is now the legacy and the philosophy of any member of the Republican ruling party that does not denounce these deaths and demand their end.”

• Stacey Abrams [07:34]: “What will it profit us to have silence, but to lose our souls in this moment?”

• Erin Ryan [21:43]:
  “I don't think human beings... are meant to watch this much death captured on film... there is mass suffering, even beyond the families and communities that lost members in a horrific manner. We are all participating in completely unnecessary suffering.”

• Erin Ryan [24:42]:
  “[My sister] is a teacher. She teaches ESL, so her students are directly impacted... She’s witnessed people being taken from parking lots, from stores near where she lives. She’s witnessed just the overwhelming presence. Her school has organized...a supply drive...because they look like someone that ICE would arrest... ICE doesn't really care about precision. ICE just cares about numbers.”

• Erin Ryan [34:59]: “These people almost instinctively have organized their neighborhoods... the administration underestimated these people. Their ability to organize, and their ability to stand up.”

• Stacey Abrams [51:38]: “[JD Vance]... very proudly recounted the cuts to social programs, the restrictions they have been able to impose on abortion access... This administration has managed to ratchet up that hypocrisy.”

• Erin Ryan [69:45]: “If you feel that activation switching in, you let it switch on. Encourage [people]...When are we going? Let's go, let's make a sign...Just show up and be there...There are so many things to do.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Reflection / Theme Set
  [03:06]—Stacey’s scripture reading & framing [07:34]—“What will it profit us to have silence...?” [08:55]—Pam Bondi’s DOJ extortion threat to Minnesota

• Guest Introduction / Breaking Down Events
  [18:52]—Erin Ryan joins, context for recording
  [21:43]—Erin’s emotional response to the trauma in Minnesota

• Personal Testimony & Community Impact
  [24:42]—Impact on Erin’s sister, stories from immigrant students
  [27:26]—Chilling loss of protection, “no label and no costume”

• Resistance & Organizing
  [34:16]—Neighborhood solidarity, organic organizing
  [36:52]—Abrams on the mismatch of force, need for psychic resistance

• Political Accountability
  [41:55]—Congress and LaMonica McIver’s prosecution
  [42:13]—Ryan critiques “political bullshitting”

• Abortion Rights & Broader Agenda
  [44:42]—Connecting immigration and abortion rights to authoritarian strategies
  [47:39]—ComicCon analogy for March for Life
  [50:11]—Medication abortion, facts versus propaganda
  [51:38]—J.D. Vance’s “pro-family” hypocrisy

• Activism & Empathy
  [63:51]—Lawmakers shouldn’t be writing medical policy
  [66:52]—“What happens to them could happen to you...Biology does not discriminate.”

• Calls to Action & Closing
  [69:45]—Erin Ryan: How to get involved, activism tips
  [71:32]—Abrams: Specific steps—call your senator, support local people, donate to disaster relief (Rebuild Us), amplify the podcast, subscribe & share

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Actionable Advice

• Check on vulnerable neighbors, especially those at greatest risk.
• Amplify—not rumor, but local organizers and legal aid efforts.
• Document and save videos, posts, and eyewitness accounts.
• Support rapid response networks and mutual aid.
• Contact your Senator to block increased Homeland Security/ICE funding.
• Volunteer to help homebound neighbors—including arranging supplies.
• Donate to disaster-response organizations like Rebuild Us.
• Join, support, and empower existing accountability movements; “Just show up and be there.”

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Tone, Language, and Structure

The tone throughout is urgent but empowering, rooted in both moral clarity and pragmatic activism. Abrams maintains a preacher’s rhetorical cadence, connecting scripture and civil rights legacy to contemporary resistance. Ryan interjects humor and personal insight, reflecting the blend of outrage and stamina required in sustained activism.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode is a searing, timely exploration of authoritarian violence, the erosion of personal and communal safety, and the limits of traditional political action. Abrams and Ryan lay out the stakes—life, freedom, the future of democratic society—and the “Faustian bargains” being offered to Americans. The episode moves from the most intimate (“my sister is delivering relief supplies and worried about her safety”) to the national (the strategic use of reproductive and immigration policy as levers of control). The conclusion is unambiguous: silence is complicity, and all are called to action—each according to their means but without retreat.

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Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams: “We can't fix everything, everywhere, all at once; but we can each do something, somewhere, soon.”

Transcript

[Stacey Abrams]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[Stacey Abrams]

Thank you, Mosh, for sponsoring this episode. Welcome to Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams from Crooked Media. I'm your host, Stacey Abrams. I'm also what is known as a double pk, a preacher's kid, where both my mom and my dad are retired United Methodist ministers. And before we get to today's guest, I want to talk about a scripture that has been echoing for me since I watched Greg Bevino try to gaslight Americans about the killing of Alex Preddy in Minneapolis. This is a killing that was done by a Republican sanctioned secret police, done in the name of Americans, done under the guise of immigration reform, immigration behavior and the scripture that keeps circling. For me, it's found both in Matthew and in Mark. But I'm going to start with Mark is Mark 8:36. And it says, for what shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world but lose his own soul? And you see, the reason I keep thinking about it is that we keep thinking of this question in terms of a Greg Bevino, a Kristi Noem, Donald Trump and J.D. vance. We keep thinking that they are the ones who should be asking this question. That the question that Jesus raised, what should a profit a man if he shall gain the whole world but lose his own soul? That they should be asking this question. And I think it's the wrong frame. Because as I think about that scripture, I'm also thinking about other words that I can't forget, like the names of those who've been killed in ICE custody or by employees of ICE or Border Patrol in the first 25 days of this year. January 3, Geraldo Lunas Campos, Victor Manuel Diaz on January 14, Paradi Law. January 9, Luis Beltran Yanez Cruz on January 6, Luis Gustavo Nunez Caceres on January 5, Renee Goode on January 7, Heber Sanchez Dominguez on January 14, Keith Porter on January 1, Alex Preddy on January 24. In 2025, there were 31 deaths reported. In 2024, there were 11. And in less than a month into 2026, Republicans, not ICE, not Trump Republicans now have the blood of eight people on their hands. And the reason this matters is that this is now the legacy and the philosophy of any member of the Republican ruling party that does not denounce these deaths and demand their end. And the reason this matters to me so much in light of Jesus's exhortation to us is that we keep waiting for their decision to bring us salvation. But when I think about what happened in Minnesota on Saturday when Alex Preddy died at the hands of Republican authorized federal agents who went masked and armed and who will likely face no real investigation. It was that he did not wait to be told it was okay to ask. He decided that it would not profit him to gain the whole world, but lose his soul if he saw bad happening. He decided that it was worth his life, not by choice, but by belief, that it was worth it to him to take action. He could not have imagined that in the United States of America, holding up a cell phone in the exercise of his First Amendment right and carrying a concealed weapon in the exercise of his Second Amendment rights, would sign his death warrant. He held a phone and a gun, both of his, by American birthright, and they cost him his life. And yet he is the embodiment of what Jesus Christ exhorted us to understand. What does it profit us to have the whole world if we lose our souls? We have been told by this Republican regime varying versions of the same lie about why he died. We've been told that if he had just complied. But we know that the evidence says the opposite. We know that the people who died in custody under the United States banner died because the United States failed. We know that Renee Goode and Keith Porter died. They did not intend. They did not stand up and say, sacrifice me. But they died nonetheless. And the question we have to ask ourselves as Americans is what will it profit us to have silence, but to lose our souls in this moment? And for those who say, well, this is about immigration, I'm going to say no. And I'm not just saying no because I believe it. I'm saying no because they told us this because Attorney General Pam Bondi accidentally told us the truth. This week in her extortion letter to Governor Tim Waltz, the nation's top law enforcement officer told Minnesota that they would stop the killing and stop the invasion and stop the incursions. And if Minnesota would hand over in ransom their confidential voter rolls, if they would submit Minnesota's protected data on Medicaid and SNAP benefits, if they would end policies that ensure the fair treatment of migrants, if they would become collaborators with ice, that if they were willing to do those things, then the killings would stop the invasion would stop, that Minnesota would gain the world if it would be willing to give its soul and give its power to this regime. But the thing is that both Matthew and Mark both use this term. They use this story from Jesus Christ for a reason. Because while Jesus was excoriating the wealthy and the powerful in Matthew, what it says is, for what Shall a man give in exchange for his soul? This isn't about Republicans who are willing to destroy America. This isn't about people in power who are willing to give away our birthright for their temporary power. My question is, for us, what will Americans accept to save ourselves? What will we sacrifice for the greed of Republican politicians and hate mongers who will now kill with impunity without even the pretext of law? And if our answer is that we will not give in, then we have to understand what we face. What I take from the scripture, what I take from the parents who raised me not only in service of my faith tradition, but in legacy of their civil rights tradition, is that we have to understand what we face if we are going to fix. You know, they've already started their propaganda war. They've already lied to us about why they are killing us. And for those of us who have lived under the specter of authoritarianism light for most of our lives, we can't be surprised by this. But we have to be activated by this. We have to be animated by this and we have to understand this. My friend Asosa Ossa, who was on the show, once represents a group called Onyx Impact. And she has warned us that we have to look out for their tactics because they're gonna criminalize the victims, they're gonna shift the blame, they're gonna attack witnesses and the media and organizers, they're gonna spread false narratives and images, they're gonna distract and divide. And the thing of it is, are we going to be complicit? Are we going to give in? Are we going to sacrifice our souls because they've given us an excuse to do so? I don't think so. If you watch what has unfolded in Minneapolis over this past week, if you watch what has happened in Chicago and in Los Angeles, what's happening more quietly in New Orleans and in Charlotte, what happened in Memphis, what's happening in Lewiston, Maine, across this country, in Portland, Oregon and Washington, D.C. where invasions have happened under our name as Americans, who we are watching Americans fight back because it does not profit us to comply and lose our souls. Our response is clear. We have to follow the lead of our neighbors. We have to push back against what they are saying is true. We cannot give in to the propaganda. We have to know that there are 10 steps to freedom and power. And we have to spend every day saying we're going to take one of those steps. And that can be sharing A Know youw Rights Resource about ICE and Filming but because of Alex Peretti we cannot put our phones down because of Renee Goode. We cannot turn away because of Keith Porter. We cannot think that we are safe just because the person is off duty, because we have an armed invasion of law enforcement under the guise of. Of federalism that is stealing our souls. And so I want you to think about that scripture. I want you to check on a neighbor, especially the ones most at risk, because we cannot leave the vulnerable to the predators. But I also want you to amplify local organizers and legal support and rapid response networks. Instead of unverified rumors, I want you to provide aid and support staff, save videos, save posts, save statements before they disappear. We have to record the truth. But most importantly, we cannot be naive about what we face. That's why the scripture matters to me. It's not simply a question of what will they do, it's what will we do, what will we risk? I want to be clear. We can't all afford to risk the same. Some of us have platforms and some of us have urgent responsibilities. Some of us have families, and some of us simply don't know what the future holds and we don't know what we can do. And so I'm not saying everyone has to do the same thing, but we all have to do something. And part of that is deciding how much we can afford to risk. Decide how much you can do and be clear about the consequences of and then do something that worries you just a little bit more. We know that local governments may have limits, so do what you can to shore them up. Do what you can to give them the notion that we expect more of them. Do not forfeit any tools, even if they seem inadequate. We've got to tell Congress to act. We've got to do what we can. But this is no longer about relative political power. It's not about Republican versus Democrat. This is about what we are willing to do to save our lives and save our souls. It's about the cost of freedom and who pays it. Democratic victory in 2026 might get us a little more airtime and a little bit more leverage, but not if we gain a compromise, compromised Congress and lose lives. And lose our souls. Much more. When we come back from this break, Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by Strawberry Me. You started the year with hope and optimism, including around your job. And then two weeks later, you're already burned out again. If you can relate, you're not alone. If work left you drained last year, today's sponsor, Strawberry Me, can help you change that. Strawberry is career coaching that gets to the real source of your burnout. Whether it's too much on your plate, no boundaries, a tough manager, or just feeling totally disconnected from the work you do, a coach helps you figure out what's draining you, helps you build habits that protect your energy, can help you redesign your day to day so it feels sustainable, and can help you create a plan so burnout doesn't come back by March. It's not exactly therapy, but really it's like therapy for your career. And here's the good part. You can get matched with a coach who fits your personality and goals in just a few minutes. Sessions are flexible, private and made for real people with real jobs, not the fantasy version of you that always has it together. If you're listening to this thinking, yep, I'm burned out. Let this be your new year reset. Go to Strawberry Me assembly and try your first coaching session for 50% off. That's strawberry me assembly. Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by honeylove. Like so many of us in the age of cameras everywhere, what we wear is only part of the equation. Having good foundational garments is essential and being comfortable while I'm wearing them is non negotiable. That's why I wear HoneyLove. They prove that the words comfort and shapewear are not mutually exclusive. That's because all Honey Love products are intelligently designed by women who actually wear them, including founder Betsy, who is highly involved in the development of each product. HoneyLove bras are supportive and wire free thanks to bonding technology that lifts without underwire. You deserve a bra that's lightweight and comfortable without sacrificing support. You can get started by trying their new Crossover Contour bra which features their best selling wireless crossover bra design plus built in molded light foam pads for extra support and a beautifully contoured shape. 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We have seen this Faustian bargain before and joining me this week on Assembly Required to unpack how that's worked out before is writer, political commentator and co host of Crooked Media's Hysteria the Incredible. Erin Ryan. Welcome to Assembly Required.

[Erin Ryan]

Thank you so much for having me, Stacey.

[Stacey Abrams]

I appreciate you taking the time to be here. And I want to anchor that we are recording on Monday, January 26th. I want to anchor that because I want to begin by discussing the horrific killing of Alex Preddy by ICE agents in Minnesota on Saturday and the escalating situation on the ground. What we know so far, based on the evidence of our eyes, as opposed to the propaganda from the Republican regime, is that he was shot 10 times by agents while he was already on the ground. And we have to link that to the fact that Renee Goode's autopsy was released last week showing that she was shot by the ICE officer at least three times. And then that layers on top of the fact that to date in the year 2026, there have already been six additional killings or deaths of people in ICE custody or CPB custody or American immigration custody, depending on which term of art they want to use at the time. But what we also know is that in the aftermath of the Good killing and what we have learned from the litany of deaths in ICE custody, there does not seem to be an appetite to actually investigate what's happening. For example, the Department of Justice has chosen not to open a civil rights investigation into Officer Ross and instead was reportedly investigating both Renee's wife, Becca Goode, but also investigating Renee Goode. We heard that if we listen to what was said on Saturday and again on Sunday, it doesn't seem likely that they're going to take any action against the agents who killed Mr. Preddy. And the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension was blocked from the scene by dhs. And that lays on top of the stories and the videos of people being detained, including the detention of a toddler. So I lay all of that out because I want, first and foremost just your reaction. As someone who is both a part of the sort of reportage that has to happen these days because we have lost the thread, but also as someone who is just living in this space, how do you process what's happened over this, not just the past weekend but the very short month we are into.

[Erin Ryan]

Well, Stacy, yesterday I looked at the calendar. On Sunday, on the 25th, I looked at the calendar and I thought, oh, my gosh, it's only been a month since Christmas. I feel like there's been so much horror just crammed into that month that it's kind of hard to fathom. I don't think that human beings, just human beings in general are meant to watch this much death captured on film. I don't think that our brains are supposed to be processing these images, and yet they keep coming. And I think that everybody who is witnessing this, even people who are professionals in the media who have to break this down, are suffering. I think that there is a mass amount of suffering even beyond the families and communities that lost members in a horrific manner. We are all participating in completely unnecessary suffering. I also, you know, I talked about this on my show last week, but it can't be ignored that ICE and the Trump administration is perpetuating this idea. Maybe not explicitly, maybe they're not coming out and saying it, but the idea is that they get to do whatever they want to whomever they want. And anybody who stands up to them, even if they're the most in group of, in groups in, you know, the American hierarchy, they deserve death as a result of stepping out of line and not allowing them to do whatever they want to whomever they want. You know, Alex Preddy worked for the va. He was a registered nurse who worked for the va. Renee Goode was a mother. And as a society, I can't help but think that an ideology that advocates just no punishment for eliminating the people that are giving care and giving life, it's a suicidal ideology. There is no long term way for a society like this to exist. And so right now, I think mentally I'm not doing great. And I think that I am far from alone in not doing great. I'm also a parent. I've got two little kids. One of them is two. To really understand what's going on at all beyond what's happening in the latest episode of Bluey. But the other one is four. And she overhears us talking and she notices maybe that the teachers at school are a little bit nervous and they have to have a procedure in place and sometimes they all have to go inside. And it's really, really so much for people to deal with. And the thing that is really upsetting is that none of this has to happen. All of this is unnecessary.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, Erin, I mean, your sister is a teacher in the St. Paul Public School system. And you just mentioned your daughter. What has your sister been telling you about the impacts of the ICE presence, not only at her school, but just in the community?

[Erin Ryan]

Yeah, it's really upsetting. It is upsetting. You know, I'm far away. I grew up in the Minneapolis area, but. But my family is still there. And my sister, like you mentioned, is a teacher. She teaches esl, so her students are directly impacted. She told me a story the other week that one of her students, who is from Bangladesh, I believe, who is here legally, his family, followed the legal pathway and is, you know, they're filling out the paperwork. They're showing up where they need to show up. They're sending their kid to school. They're doing what they're supposed to be doing. But he showed up to school wearing a giant hat with an American flag on it. And she interpreted that as a sign that his family was trying to symbolize to anybody that might see him walking down the street by himself that he was not. That he was on the side of the people that were trying to lock him up, you know, just like a costume to try to avoid being taken into custody. She's witnessed people taken from parking lots, from stores near where she lives. She's witnessed just the overwhelming presence. She is very, very low morale. I think a lot of people are low morale. Her school has organized, like many schools, has organized a supply drive. And teachers on their own time are taking those supplies out and delivering to people that are scared to leave their homes, many of whom, again, are here and are following the rules. They are here on asylum. They're in the process of achieving naturalization. Like, they're people who are rule followers. You know, they're not. They're delivering food to these people who are too scared to leave their houses because they look like someone that ICE would arrest. Or they live in a neighborhood full of people that ICE might arrest. And ICE doesn't really care about precision. ICE just cares about numbers. And so they're taking on their own time in their own vehicles. They're going around delivering this food. Now, the other day, she texted me and said that she was afraid of her own safety and because there was something on the boxes that identified the school. And, you know, she's reaching out to me, like, should I be turning my phone off? What should I be doing? You know, she's. These are things that. No, like, she's a teacher. She's a teacher. Why does she have to, like, you know, Jason Bourne around the city where she lives in Order to deliver toilet paper to people who are just trying to live their lives and can't leave the house because goon squads have taken over their cities. This is so unnecessary, and this is such a waste of resources. Just from a purely crass program perspective, but from a human perspective, this is abject cruelty. And the impact that this is having on the people of Minnesota cannot be overstated. It's really, really horrible. And everyone is feeling very bad.

[Stacey Abrams]

Part of what has been so disturbing to me in these conversations, and I so appreciate the vulnerability that you are sharing and that your sister has lifted up. It's this qualification that we have been lulled into providing. This person is here legally. We are living in a moment where in America, your presence is insufficient to preserve your life. And there are communities, communities of color, namely black communities, brown communities. We've seen this play out before. But I think part of what is so chilling to so many is that there doesn't seem to be a qualification that protects you anymore. Citizenship. Being a woman, being a white woman, being someone who works for the va, being a nurse. Like, there is no label and no costume. To your point about the young kid, there's nothing that seems to say, I am protected. And I wonder, as you think about the moment that we're in, what. Is there anything left that justifies or signals that you enjoy the protections that we say America should offer?

[Erin Ryan]

I think at this juncture, I wanna pivot a little bit because I know I have been very upset by it. But I also wanna. Let's talk a little bit about how, like you said, this does seem very bleak. But I don't think it's as bleak as the administration wants us to believe. It is like, they do not have the manpower to do this anywhere but Minneapolis. At the same time, I live in Los Angeles, and what ICE presence in Los Angeles looks like is a guerrilla war. And by that, I mean small amounts of people showing up somewhere really quick, snatching people getting back in their car and leaving. It's not looking like an invasion. Like it looks like in Minneapolis where they are marching onto the street, where Greg Bevino's in his, like, size extra small, small, tough guy costume. He is like, it is a performance in Minneapolis, and it is a performance that requires so many resources that if it were to be replicated in even one or two more cities, it would expose very quickly the fact that the government does not have the resources to replicate it nationwide. So I think that this does not in any way minimize the suffering of the people of Minneapolis. St. Paul and the suburbs surrounding Minneapolis and St. Paul, because it's, you know, it's the city and the suburbs. Where this is happening doesn't minimize the suffering and the human cost and the unnecessary ness of all of this. But it does help, I think, for us to realize that this is actually not a show of strength. This is, if we think about it holistically, it is a show of weakness. The downside of that is if they decided to target your city or your neighborhood or my neighborhood, and they decided to invade for another photo op, then there's very little that can be done. You know, no status protects you from what they could do. They can't do it everywhere. But if they choose to do it where you live, you're exactly right that there's nothing that protects you anymore. And I think that it's finally starting to get through to people who think that they would be protected. And to a lesser extent, we saw. And we'll talk about, like, the abortion rights later, but we saw this a little bit with people when Roe v. Wade was overturned. People thought, I'll still be okay. I'll still be fine. And then, you know, in the ensuing time, it's like, oh, actually, no. When we take a giant, like, machete to what should be a scalpel problem, then there's gonna be some, like, collateral damage that people don't realize that they are subject to, no matter their status.

[Stacey Abrams]

I appreciate you saying that, because part of what I've been explaining to friends this weekend, especially to friends who say, why aren't the Minnesota authorities responding, the state and local authorities responding? And one issue I try to remind them of, look, you got 3,000 armed ICE agents, armed, militarized police on the ground. If you combine all of the resources of Minnesota, that's a lot of people. This is not a mano a mano situation. I think the numbers are that even if you combine all of the law enforcement in Minnesota, you don't get the same number of people that have been deployed. And when you have that kind of mismatch and you've got the military of the United States, that can then be, I would say, falsely called in because of a misappropriation of the Insurrection Act. There's a decision that has to be made. But that said, to your point, the show of force is designed to not only have the physical impact of terrifying folks, but to have the psychic impact of telling others. Don't you try to fight back. And I'm glad you lifted up the fact that there are still incursions happening around the country. There's what's happening in la. It didn't stop in la. There's what's happening in Chicago, what they tried in Charlotte, what they're doing in New Orleans, what's the happening in Memphis, what's happening in Lewiston, Maine, that hotbed of immigration, what has happened in Portland. And I lift all of that because I think what you said about your sister is so important in this moment, which is that she's still doing something, she's still taking action. And it may feel small to the larger scope of what we face, but it is such a critical action to take, because a big part of the reason that resistance works, a big part of the reason you can push back against the psychic effect, is when people defy what the propaganda tells them is true. And one of those examples are the brave citizens who are filming ICE Activity. Alex Preddy apparently was murdered because he filmed ICE Activity. And I try not to use murder too frequently on this show without the legal analysis. But I will say, having watched those videos again and again, I cannot think of a word that better describes what happened. But all of that is to say that we have these Americans who are filming Ice Activity, who are showing up. What have you heard about how people are feeling in this moment where they have this responsibility to confront the mass militarization and the impertinence, immunity and impunity of Americans who have been armed by their government to do what they want?

[Erin Ryan]

Well, friends and family in Minneapolis have conveyed to me that they're very demoralized and upset. And also I've gotten messages on social media who are telling us what's going on on the ground. So on one side it is that we feel awful. This is terrible. We feel like we're being pushed to the brink. But the other side of that, One of my friends just moved to the Twin Cities from New York back home, basically, and she said she got to know more of her neighbors in the last month. She got to know them all so fast. She knows them all by face and name. She knows when it's who's doing what, who is walking up and down the sidewalk with their whistle. They know. They know each other now. They're leaning on each other. And there is no central authority dictating how this happens. These people almost instinctively have organized their neighborhoods. And that, I think, should be disturbing to the Trump administration that a city full of people who normally, you know, Minnesotans are very, you know, stay out of my yard and I'll stay out of yours. Like, very, very, like, mind your own business, passive aggressive, whatever you want to call it. They're just, they're very not. They're not huggers. They're not intrusive. You know, they like to give people, they give each other their space, but they are coming together so quickly. And another thing I wanna point out is that this is really hard on the morale of Minnesotans, but it's also really strengthening something deep and true about them, which is that they are stubborn and you cannot outlast them in the cold. You really cannot. And, you know, I joked about this last week, that this is sort of like if Hitler decided to start with Stalingrad, where it's like, why are you going to a place with cold weather and people that know how to live there and that almost take a temperature of like 20 below zero as a challenge? Like, let's go out, you know, let's go out snowshoeing. It's 20 below zero. You know, it is a place where I feel like, I feel like the administration underestimated these people. What makes them who they are, their ability to organize and their ability to stand up. So I'm hearing, you know, there's a lot of darkness and a lot of sadness, but there is also, like a strength. And I think it is just getting more and more fortified the longer that this offensive goes on. To the point that I don't know if you saw this morning, Stacey, Monday morning, Donald Trump sent out a message on Truth Social that was like, I had a good call with Governor Walz that kind of indicated that he was leaning toward coming to some kind of resolution which is actually just the government backing away. And to me, once that happens, because they can't stay there forever. Once that happens, the morale of Minnesotans and the feeling of strength and pride in their communities, that is not going to go away for a generation.

[Stacey Abrams]

When we come back, more from my conversation with Erin Ryan. Assembly required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by Helix. Now that my post holiday work travel is in full swing, I'm bouncing from hotel to hotel and sometimes I miss the comforts of home. What do I think about on the way back to Atlanta? A good night's sleep on my Helix mattress. Buying a Helix mattress couldn't be easier. The Helix Sleep quiz matches you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences and sleep needs so that you can find the perfect fit. Not only that, Helix has free shipping in the US and seamless delivery right to your doorstep. Helix is the most awarded mattress brand Helix tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired, you can rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. Helix has a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. Now that I've switched to Helix, I'm getting a better night's sleep and having easier mornings. And I'm not the only one. A study Helix ran found that 82% of those involved saw an increase in their deep sleep cycle while sleeping on a Helix mattress. Go to helixsleep.comassembly for 20% off sitewide. That's helixsleep.comassemblyfor 20% off site wide. And make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you Helix Sleep assembly required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by Acorns the concept of investing can be incredibly daunting and it's hard to know exactly where to start. You might think you already need to have money in order to figure out financial goals, and it can be difficult to find time to learn what to do. So you put it out of your mind and just focus on where your money is today. Acorns is the financial wellness app that cares about where your money is going tomorrow, and with the Acorns Potential screen, you can find out what your money is capable of. Acorns is a smart way to give your money a chance to grow. Acorns is easy. You can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing your spare change. Acorns is easy. You can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing your spare money. Even if all you've got is spare change. Acorns grows with you. Whether you're just starting out or thinking about settling down, Acorns supports your big and small goals across every life stage. The Acorns Potential screen shows you the power of compounding and how your money could grow over time. Plus, you can quickly adjust how much you're investing every day, every week or month to make sure you're building towards your goals. Acorns is all in one. No more finance apps cluttering up your phone with Acorns. You can invest, save and give your money a chance to grow in one trusted place. I especially like the app's learning tools to help you become more confident about managing your financial goals. Sign up now and Acorns will boost your new account with a $5 bonus. Join the over 14 million all time customers who have already saved or invested over $27 billion with Acorns head to acorns.com assembly or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non Client Endorsement Compensation provides incentives to positively promote Acorns tier 2 compensation provided potential subject to various factors such as customers, accounts, age and investment settings. Does not include acorns fees. Results do not predict or represent the performance of any ACORNS portfolio. Investment results will vary. Investing involves risk. Acorn Advisors LLC and SEC Registered Investment Advisor View important [e-mail] assembly we are lauding and mourning what is happening to average citizens simply for trying to preserve and protect their families, their communities, strangers. But we also have people who were elected to protect and defend us, and we have seen an unevenness in this work. I wanna talk for a second, for example, about Congresswoman LaMonica McIver, who is facing a possible 17 year prison sentence for assault simply for doing her job and conducting an oversight visit at a migrant detention facility. And I juxtaposed that with House Democrats who overwhelmingly last Thursday voted to block additional funding for ice, but said seven Democrats supported the Homeland Security spending bill that will send billions more to support this hyperactive state violence. And to your point about just how many people they've got, there are billions more dollars that can expand this force. How do you think about the willingness of our elected officials to oppose this agenda as juxtaposed with those who who are capitulating out of this sort of performative pragmatism that says I can't fight now so I can win in November, ignoring the fact that November may never come if we don't fight back?

[Erin Ryan]

Yeah, I think right now people are very frustrated and kind of tired of the, if I can just say it, tired of bullshit, political bullshitting where it's like, I hear you, I hear you and I understand you, but then doing nothing. And I think that citizens and the people that are fed up with what they're seeing with ICE are kind of calling that out now more than they would have before. They're paying attention to what politicians are saying and what politicians are doing and they're calling it out. I also think you talk about funding for ice. I haven't seen this discussed a lot, but I just wonder, given the fact that Donald Trump is not going to be around forever and eventually there will be a different government in place. Now whether that's after some sort of like civil war struggle or not remains to be determined, but eventually the people who were wronged, whose rights were ignored by ICE will probably have their day in court too. You know, eventually there will be a more cooperative system in place eventually. I wonder how much of that ICE budget is just going to end up going to settling lawsuits by people who had their rights violated by ICE or their rights completely taken away. So that's just something that's kind of been on my mind. I do think that I've been seeing a lot stronger language from Democrats. I would like to see more creativity from them because I'm seeing a lot of speeches and good ideas where it's like, hey, abolishing ICE is the compromise position that we need to prosecute ice. I've seen more interesting dialogue on that side of things, but I really would like to see some actual creativity because speeches are good, but, like, they don't really. Somebody needs to do something besides make speeches. Somebody who has the power, I think, like Lamonica McIver showing up and getting arrested. Like, I think that more of our elected officials need to be getting themselves arrested, to be honest, putting themselves in harm's way, bringing attention and focus to wrongs. They have so much, they have so much privilege and so much, so many resources and so much attention on them that I think bringing that to the front lines of this is important.

[Stacey Abrams]

I completely agree. And part of it for me is as someone who was the leader in the minority, where the distance between the majority and minority was vast, very vast. Gulf sand in the gears feels small ball, but it is such an important part of not just loyal opposition, because loyal opposition presumes that the. The system itself is holding. But sometimes opposition for the sake of opposition is necessary to tell the people, you need to also have resist that they're not in it alone. And I think to your point about Congresswoman McIver, she's showing up and she's showing what can be done. And yes, it is important to offer legislation, but it's also important to offer a fight and to show that impunity does not exist, that there are consequences. And part of my worry is that we have this necessary but myopic focus on Trump and a necessary but myopic focus on November, as those two set pieces will solve everything. But to your point, Trump will eventually go, but something else can take its place. And if we remember our recent Venezuelan history, Maduro succeeded Chavez. He was less charismatic, less effective, and still just as powerful. Likewise, winning a chamber or two in Congress does not diminish what has happened in the presidency and in the judiciary. And I think one way that that is very emblematic and this is a really awkward shift to my question, which is, you know, ICE is one facet of the assault we've seen on Americans. And it is grotesque and it is blatant, but it sometimes crowds out what else is happening. And a lot of the work that you do on your podcast focuses on another facet of this, which is the attack and assault on abortion and abortion care. And it crowds it out because we forget that all of this is happening not because they are truly concerned about immigration. This is in pursuit of an ethno fascist, Christian nationalist, proto natalist regime. That's what all this is for. And they are using immigration as a proxy, much in the way they use abortion as a proxy, because these are all component parts of the same mission. And we had a part of that reminder last week. Last Friday was the March for Life rally in Washington, D.C. and so, Erin, I'd love for you to explain. Explain what that spectacle was and how that reflects more broadly on our current political moment.

[Erin Ryan]

Well, I've covered the March for Life. The March for Life has got. As a journalist, I've gone there and covered it. Just imagine a Star Trek convention featuring a bunch of kids who go to Catholic high school who don't know anything about the world and the scariest dorks imaginable who would stand outside of abortion clinics.

[Stacey Abrams]

Okay, I'm going to stop you. We can never, ever use Star Trek as the proxy.

[Erin Ryan]

Oh, okay, okay. I'm sorry.

[Stacey Abrams]

Sorry.

[Erin Ryan]

I was like, oh, no. What did I say? Okay, we'll say, let's see what's a good. I should realize.

[Stacey Abrams]

Yeah, let's just do Dragon Con.

[Erin Ryan]

You know what I'll do? Like Comic Con. Comic Con.

[Stacey Abrams]

Okay, there we go.

[Erin Ryan]

I like Star Trek. I meant that as like.

[Stacey Abrams]

I know, I know.

[Erin Ryan]

So funny. Stacy.

[Stacey Abrams]

It's in my contract. I have to defend Star Trek and all things.

[Erin Ryan]

Oh, my God. My best friend is. And I'm going to tell her about this and she's going to laugh and laugh and laugh at me. Okay, so, Stacy, imagine Comic Con, like a very small version of Comic Con in the cold in January in D.C. involving a bunch of kids who went to like, who go to Catholic high school teenagers holding signs that are anti abortion. And then like the scariest dorks that you can imagine. It is like the convention of pro life people. And they all come together and they listen to a bunch of politicians, most of them men, who can never give birth and never will, giving speeches about how women should be giving birth more. And that sounds like an oversimplification, but that's kind of what it's always been in the time that I went and covered it in person, they all were united around one shared goal, which was Roe v. Wade. I think this march first took place in 1974. It really blew up once Reagan hitched his wagon to the pro life cause. And it got really huge through the 90s. And so they're always just, roe v. Wade, we gotta overturn Roe v. Wade, we gotta get the Supreme Court, we gotta make laws, blah, blah, blah, blah. And for a long time, they were kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall, but just always working toward this big goal. Now in 2022, when Roe v. Wade was overturned, the movement kind of lost focus for a little bit, but now it's coming back together to focus on its next goal, because that was never it. You know, Stacey, that was never, ever gonna be it for them. Their next goal is outlawing medication abortion. Because unfortunately, and as anybody who follow has known anything about it ever could have told you, banning abortion does not end abortion. Like making abortion more difficult to get. Just inconveniences people who are going to have the abortions anyway. It makes it more expensive, it takes more time, but they're going to do it anyway because taking two days off work is better than having a baby that you don't want to have. Like, there's just. That's it. And since Trump's first term in office, I believe the total number of abortions has gone up in the country. Has gone up, has gone up 30%. And part of that is due to the fact that in states where abortion is difficult to access, you can still access the medication abortion via telehealth. So you can do a zoom call with a doctor and the doctor can prescribe this medication abortion. So now all these big pro life organizations have decided we need to get rid of access to medication abortion. Surely that'll do it. That'll do it. I've gotten the impression from reading what was said and what the speakers did at this event that the hardcore pro lifers were not exactly happy with how the Trump administration has handled them during the second term. Surprise, surprise, Donald Trump said what he needed to say to pro life people to get elected, and then once he didn't need them anymore, he stopped following through. I think in the last couple of years, there's been a generic version of mifepristone approved for the market under Trump. There's also been no steps at all to limit the ability of medication abortion via telehealth. This has people pretty, pretty upset. So the general atmosphere this year was warm like, yay, yay, us. But after that huge victory of Roe v. Wade, they're a little bit frustrated by the fact that the Trump administration isn't leading the charge to make abortion even harder to access in this country.

[Stacey Abrams]

Who were the key speakers at this event?

[Erin Ryan]

Oh, we had. It was like a Mount Rushmore of guys, I wouldn't want to go on a road trip with J.D. vance. We had Mike Johnson. We had a video message from President Donald Trump. Those were the three biggies. It was pretty much the same lineup as last year, except this year there was a lot of, like, Charlie Kirk memorabilia around for some reason. So, yeah, those were the big ones. I think J.D. vance was the keynote. He spoke for about half an hour.

[Stacey Abrams]

And what I understand from JD Vance's speech was that in addition to trying to cover for the lack of action under this administration, he instead, very proudly recounted the cuts to social programs, the restrictions they have been able to impose on abortion access, restrictions that we know are killing young mothers, immigration enforcement that is ripping families apart, and this expansion of a foreign policy that will likely increase the victimization of women and girls in nations that were just beginning to be held accountable for rape and molestation as part of public policy. And so, Aaron, I'd love for you to talk for a second. I mean, Republicans have always claimed a values agenda that promoted policies that harm actual people and families, but this administration has managed to ratchet up that hypocrisy. And as someone who has very closely observed their tactics for years, how has this regime learned and evolved its principles and its tactics?

[Erin Ryan]

Well, I think, first of all, Donald Trump really doesn't care about abortion at all. He just. He used the pro life movement to get into office, and now he kind of finds them annoying that they're not just delighted with him all the time. I think J.D. vance at least cosplays as a guy who truly cares about abortion. He pretends to. He announced his wife's fourth pregnancy or that his wife was expecting their fourth child at the March for Life. I think that J.D. vance packaged it as though the cuts to programs in other countries that you mentioned, Stacey, he positioned that as pro life, which I thought was very strange. And he also touted programs that, as somebody that's currently taking care of two little children. When I read about the details of these programs, I kind of laugh at how unhelpful they are, like baby bonuses and Trump savings accounts and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, just give us parental leave. Just give us parental. That would be a helpful thing. So JD Vance in his speech interestingly touted these oh, we're like, we're not just doing the stick thing where it's like no abortions for anybody. It is also a carrot where it's like, oh, if you have children, you can get a bigger tax credit or we can do this. By the way, the tax credit they're proposing is not even as big as what some Democrats have proposed in the past, but that's neither here nor there. I think J.D. vance is operating under the illusion or delusion that these tiny steps taken by the Trump administration to incentivize having more children are do anything whatsoever to erase the enormous cost of children and the lack of support that parents face when they have children in the US Especially in a red state without the infrastructure to actually like help new parents. And so yeah, I thought that it was interesting that he tried to position these anti family moves as actually pro family. And he also tried to say that what the Trump administration was doing was like, innovative by creating some sort of like social safety net for parents when really Republicans have been fighting these social safety nets for literally generations.

[Stacey Abrams]

More from my conversation with Erin Ryan after the break. Assembly Required is brought to you by the Freedom From Religion Foundation. A strong democracy doesn't happen by accident. It's built deliberately through laws that protect everyone's freedoms, not just those with power. One of those protections is the separation of church and state. State the First Amendment ensures that government serves all people equally, regardless of faith, background or belief, and that no one is forced to live under someone else's theology. Today, that principle is under threat from movements that want to blur the line between religion and government, narrowing who truly belongs in our democracy. The Freedom From Religion foundation works to defend that boundary in schools, courts and public institutions. So freedom of conscience remains a right, not a privilege. It's about inclusion and it's about building a democracy that works for everyone. Visit FFRF US NewYear or text my first name S T A c e y to 511-511 and support the work of protecting our shared freedoms. To learn more, go to FFRF.

[Erin Ryan]

Or.

[Stacey Abrams]

Text my first name Stacy to 511511 and help protect a country that belongs to all of us. Message and data rates may apply.

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[Stacey Abrams]

Terms one of the fights that they have implemented and instituted that worries me is what they've done not only here but also abroad. And we have the Mexico City rule, which is a policy that curtails abortion access abroad by cutting federal funding from international NGOs that provide or even discuss abortion. And as you pointed out, J.D. vance had a wide ranging half an hour message of aberrant hypocrisy and he announced in that speech that this policy will expand to include diversity, equity and inclusion. DEI and as we talk about on the show all the time, DEI very much includes issues of race, gender, sexual orientation and bodily autonomy that for them diversity means all people and they don't like any of it. And equity means fair access to opportunity. And abortion is one of the strongest ways that because of bodily autonomy, communities can achieve. People can achieve that equity. And we know that the day before the administration announced that it will also investigate Planned Parenthood's use of $88 million in pandemic era loans. Both international NGOs and Planned Parenthood are already dangerously underfunded. I would sadly like for you to talk about what happens if this policy goes forward and what does it mean for the communities both here and abroad that stand to be harmed?

[Erin Ryan]

You know, that's a huge question. What happens? I think it's also an important question to ask what happens if they actually do the things that they're trying to do? Never in history has a government that has tried to improve lives for citizens by cracking down on access to reproductive healthcare and by trying to crack down on acceptance. Never, ever has that ended well. It has never ended with everyone being like, wow, things are great. Things are great here in Romania. Now that decree 770 has been acted. Nobody's that's we have such a fount of information about how that doesn't end well. It ends in poor health outcomes. It ends in people being discouraged from even wanting to try to have children because the risk of getting pregnant is high for a lot of people. And with access to abortion care restricted, it's sort of like, well, do I want to risk finding out at 20 weeks that the baby is forming a deadly defect? And I Have to carry this pregnancy to term and then give birth to my deceased child. Like that is something that I think a lot of people are thinking about, especially young people. So I think that J.D. vance said in the speech, he said something that was correct and I agreed with, which is that if they actually wanna decrease the amount of abortions in this country, they need to change people's minds on a granular level. But I don't think that this sort of, these broad strokes do anything to granularly change people's minds or change people's hearts. And so I think that what happens is the birth rate is going to continue to go down in a way that alarms people that study population growth. Whether or not it's a good thing for the birth rate to go down is something that can be debated. Right. I think that this just ends in poor outcomes for everybody and it ends in unnecessary suffering for everybody. All of these problems are just unnecessary problems. We do not need to be living in this world, but we're choosing to live in this world. And to me, it seems like a very given who J.D. vance is. It just seems like a very crass play to get favor with the crowd of people he's gonna need if he tries to run for president in 2028.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, as someone who has done a deep dive into folks like him, I really love the fact that you have this sort of origin story segment going back to our Comic Con reference, where you dive deep into Republican villains and their origin stories and you've done an episode on Vice President J.D. vance and his ambitions. And I wanna tie it to something else, which is that I grew up in Southern Mississippi in a family that, you know, my parents became. They weren't at the time, but my parents eventually became United Methodist ministers. But we were always a very religious family. We didn't talk about abortion explicitly. We never went to a March for life. But there was the sense that abortion was wrong. And it was as an adult that I really started investigating and understanding why I had that sensibility. And it was actually a surprise to me when Mississippi was considering its anti abortion constitutional amendment years ago. When I called my parents and both my mom and my dad said, no, we're voting against that. And I was sort of shocked, as were my siblings. And we had a conversation and my parents said, look, we do not think that abortion is right, but we don't think the government should be the intercessor. And for me, that was such an important conversation to have. It was years later than I think we probably should. Have had it. And I'm not sure my parents earlier on would have been quite so clear. But what it really cemented for me was that, you know, bodily autonomy and access to abortion care are fundamental rights. And my parents understood that because of their fight for civil rights. And what they said to me, what I have held as a truth since I shifted my beliefs evolved, my beliefs really, is that it's a fundamental right, which means it is regardless of the reason a person needs one, abortion care has to be available. And you have the death of Tierra Walker in Texas, who died after being denied this care. You have the children who've been sexually assaulted and can't access abortions. And so if we come back to J.D. vance and his political ambitions, he is going to prey on the hyperactive that they have been able to generate about abortion as an evil. How do we appeal to people's sympathies as a counterweight? Because they are going to have the full might and weight he in particular, of these marches and these communities behind him. I don't know that we can replicate what happened with me and with my family, but I would love for you to just speculate aloud because I think as we think about resistance, abortion care has to be part of the panoply of what we consider. This is not one or the other. It is an all of the above. They are assaulting our rights. How do we help people understand the importance of abortion access as part of saving our country?

[Erin Ryan]

Well, that's really an interesting question, Stacey. I grew up Catholic, and I was like, Catholic that I went all the way to college. I went. I did it in college. Like, I went to a Catholic university, and I was never, like, hardcore pro life. I went to a youth group where I was like, yeah, sure, I'm pro life. This, like, whatever. We're all pro life in this youth group, right? Which is why when I see things like the March for Life and it's full of teenagers, I'm like, probably half of you, by the time you're 22, are you not going to agree with what you're marching for right now? So I'm, you know, that's one thing to consider. I think that there's a couple things. First of all, I think that there's a lot of a deep skepticism among the very hardcore pro life people of J.D. vance because they've picked up on something that a lot of people have picked up on, which is that he's sort of a political, like, he's an ideological vessel for hire, essentially. And he just puts on whatever he needs to put on in order to impress the people that he's in front of. He's very fake. And I think that people understand that, and especially given the Trump administration's track record this term with not doing anything at all that the pro life, like, caucus wants them to do, they want them to go after medication abortion. And the Trump administration is hesitant to do that. And J.D. vance, when he was speaking about it, he said, you know, I wanna address the elephant in the room. We could be moving more toward, you know, the pro life goals. But he never once mentioned medication abortion in the speech. He didn't call it out by name. And it was very much, I think, to people that were there and frustrated, it seems like it was like an HR conversation where it's like, we hear your concerns. Everybody at work is suffering burnout. Next Friday we're gonna have donuts, okay? Doesn't that fix it? You know, he's offering empty words, but he's not following it up with action. So I think he's gonna have difficulty winning over people that are going to come into 2028 skeptical of him unless he does something. Now, in terms of getting people on the ground to change their minds, I think it's really important to point out that the people that are trying to make laws about abortion don't understand medicine. We should not have lawyers writing medical procedures. That is so silly. Like, would you want a lawyer? Like, would you want a lawyer writing instructions for how to get your hip replaced? No, they don't know how to do that. They didn't go to school. Like, that is not their business. And they're not even like, your lawyer. They've never seen you before. It's, it's very. It is abjectly crazy to me that we've accepted the fact that these people can write like, oh, we're banning this procedure when it's like a procedure that is used often for people that aren't choosing elective abortions. I think a lot of people don't have it in, haven't gotten it through their heads that a procedure for an elective abortion is not any different than the procedure for an abortion that is not elective. The reason that someone is coming in for the procedure does not change what the procedure is. And so banning the procedure for elective abortions for any reason at all endangers people who need it to save their lives. So are we comfortable, Are we comfortable with a legal framework written by people who don't know what they're Talking about that will kill people. That will kill people, and it won't actually prevent abortion. So I think that there's that kind of practical way to think about it. But I also think the empathy thing is really important. Like we talked about earlier, your status won't save you. Your wealth won't save you. If you are a pregnant woman in Texas, you are in danger. It doesn't matter how rich you are, it doesn't matter how white you are. It doesn't matter how often you go to church. You cannot control the fact that if you are pregnant, you have entered into a very risky physical period in your life, and you do not have control over what happens to you during this time, for the most part. And it can kill you and it kills people. And if doctors don't have access to the procedures that can save your life, in the event of an emergency, you're gonna die, too. And I think that it's starting to get through to people. And it's frustrating that women need to sort of mind their own pain, and families that have lost people need to just unearth the grief that they experience and not let it just be handled in private, because that is a lot to ask of people. But unfortunately, I think that for now, when the fight is in this stage, it's really important to remind us, remind everybody that these are human beings. We are all human beings. And what happens to them could happen to you, your sister, your mother, your best friend, your girlfriend, whatever. Biology does not discriminate in this case. So I think that the empathy is very important. But we also need to lean on that practicality thing. Do you want a lawyer writing medical procedures? No. Absolutely not.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, Erin, that is a perfect segue to my last question, which is, look, as we've discussed on the show today, and as you do such a beautiful job of really illuminating and bringing both a trenchant insight and a very sharp humor, too, on hysteria, we're in a fight. And ice bodily autonomy, whether we're talking about abortion rights or transgender rights, these are all lanes of attack for an authoritarian regime that seeks to aggregate power and weaken opposition. And as you just said, your status will not save you. And on our show, we always end the show by giving our audience actionable advice. So you gotta give them homework. You just gave, I think, an incredibly important frame. And I have some insider news for my producers, that in addition to your sister, you also have a dad who was marching against ice in a temperature that felt like it was negative 40 degrees. So clearly you and your family understand the power of showing up. So what words of encouragement, what calls to action, what do listeners need to do to get out there? Because they need to understand that their status won't save them.

[Erin Ryan]

Go. Okay, so my dad is like almost 70 years old, and he was not a protester when I was a kid. I don't remember him ever making signs and showing up to a protest. This has activated him. The Trump administration has activated him. So what I would say is if you feel that activation switching in, you let it switch on, switch it on. On the people all around. You encourage them. When are we going? Let's go, let's make a sign. Just don't even think about it. Just show up. Just show up and be there. I also think that there are really, it's really important for us to understand, if we're new to activism, that there are existing organizations and community organizers in your communities that really can do work that you might think that you would have to do on your own, but you don't actually. Like, you can just, you can show up to a meeting and say, like, what can I do? And they'll give you things to do. People can show up to patrol at their schools or, like, reach out to the principal at the school. What can I do to help my school? What can I do to help this park? What can I do? There are so many things to do. And the second piece of that is I really hope that people don't feel overwhelmed because all you can do is what you can do. You can get frustrate. You know, you can call your senator, you can call your representative, but you're not the one voting on the bill. Ultimately, you can, like, put on a jacket and put on a vest and go march. You can make a sign and go march. You can show up, do what you can do and, and give what you can of yourself, and don't worry about what you can't. You can't give what you can't give, and you can give what you can give. And I know that sounds like an oversimplification, but I think that helps things from feeling too overwhelming in this time.

[Stacey Abrams]

Erin Ryan, thank you so much for joining us here today on Assembly Required.

[Erin Ryan]

Thank you so much for having me, Stacy.

[Stacey Abrams]

As always on Assembly Required, we're here to give you real, actionable tools to face today's toughest challenges. First, be curious if you enjoyed my conversation with Erin Ryan. Go check out hysteria or her YouTube series, this fucking guy. Number two, solve problems, call your senator and demand that they block increased funding to the Department of Homeland Security. Look, many of our immigrant friends and neighbors are forced to stay indoors at this time, so also volunteer to pick up groceries or other supplies so they can remain in place as the siege continues across this country. Third, do good. While we were watching what was playing out in Minneapolis, the winter storm moved across the country, impacting communities that are not equipped to manage freezing weather. Rebuild Us is an organization led by disaster response professionals and they're dedicated to building a disaster relief system that is responsive to our climate reality. Visit their website at Rebuild Us to donate and to sign up to take action. Assembly Required continues to grow its audience, but we need your help. We reach more people when you tell others about us, when you add us to your feed, and when you share your favorite episode. So make sure you actually subscribe on all of your favorite platforms and not just one. Boost our visibility by rating the show and leaving a comment. You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. And please also check out my substack Assembly Notes where we dive deep and where I share more of my thoughts on how we understand and then fight back.

[Paul Scheer]

Hey, I'm Paul Scheer.

[Stacey Abrams]

I'm June Diane Rayfield.

[Paul Scheer]

And I'm Jason Mantzoukas. And we're the hosts of how did this Get Made? A comedy podcast where we deconstruct, make fun of, and celebrate the best worst movies ever made. Have you ever seen a movie that's so bad that it's actually good? That's what we're talking about.

[Stacey Abrams]

From blockbuster franchises and made for TV.

[Paul Scheer]

Romances to bonkers 80s action flicks and obscure sci fi musicals, we cover it all you can find. How did this Get Made? Wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.

[Stacey Abrams]

Idiot.