Christina Rojas (7:36)

Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.

Stacey Abrams (7:39)

Well, I appreciate you taking the time to join us. I mean, you've spent the past 20 years as a public school speech language pathologist working with elementary schools and particularly with elementary students who are in emotional support programs. And the care, the dedication, the impact that you've had in shaping the next generation is laudable. But your experience also means that you're on the front lines living through the chaos of this TrumpRepublican attack on public education. From your perspective as an educator, what's happening? What are you seeing? How is it feeling?

Christina Rojas (8:18)

When I thought about how I wanted to share what people are going through in the schools kind of on those front lines, like you mentioned, I thought about painting a picture for you on what it looks like to be a teacher in my school district here in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. So if you could bear with me as I kind of explain this, if you were a teacher, and let's say you have ideally 20 students in your classroom to be a teacher here, four of those students are not going to speak English as their native language. Two of those students are going to be recent immigrants. One is actually going to be a refugee with significant trauma who has a lot of absenteeism because their parents won't let them ride a bus because where they're from, buses take you to places that you don't wanna go. Four of those students are gonna have significant special education needs. 17 of those 20 students are gonna be economically disadvantaged. One of your students, at least is not gonna have a place to live. So that's what is coming into the classroom. And then with that, you're going to have probably about 11 that are very far behind in Ela, reading about 9 of going to be behind in math. And you're expected to bring those students up while also keeping the ones that are on grade level from falling behind. So that's the job that teachers are supposed to have. But I think right now, with the attacks on public education, from funding to school shootings to ICE raids, there's so much more that comes along with that. And I think that's the piece is that's weighing on teachers. It's the emotional baggage that comes along with knowing, okay, I need to stand in front of a child in a school shooter situation, but also now I'm going to be expected to also stand in front of an ICE agent. So I think that's the piece that's scary. And then when you look at the defunding, it adds a whole other layer of uncertainty. So this goes beyond just, hey, we want to have locked schools for safety, but where's the emotional safety that we're putting in place for our teachers so that they can be the best for our kids?

Stacey Abrams (10:36)

What you've just painted as a picture is, I think, extraordinary, but would be jarring to most people who presume that all of this is addressed. And one of the conversations we have on the show is about how we translate the expectations that people have into the realities and that folks like you and the children that you serve actually live. And one of the conversations we've been having is the conversation about DEI and why this administration and right now, this political ideology is so aggressively targeting dei. And in your painting of your picture, you highlighted what I want to dive into on a few levels. So when we say dei, one of the most significant DEI advances made in this country was the creation of the Department of Education, the creation of Title 1, and the Americans with Disabilities Act. Can you talk a little bit about why gutting DEI has an effect on those students?

Christina Rojas (11:40)

Absolutely. I mean, I can speak a little bit more to the funding specifically for my district. I think we get close to, I want to say, about $2 million to be able to fund some of these programs like Title 1, Title 3, Title 4, but also access funding is huge for our kids. So that goes for paraprofessionals, busing. The thing is, what's beautiful about public schools is that we don't shut our doors to anyone, every child, regardless of what zip code they live in, what they look like. Our schools are open for them. And then when you take out the legs from our schools to be able to provide these mandated resources, we're kind of left with, what are we supposed to do? In my state alone, our state legislators are kind of at an impasse because the conversation to push vouchers is holding up our funding. There's about $1.7 billion being held up in Pennsylvania because there's a tax on public education. And it doesn't make sense when we look at it like for our homes. You know, we have public funded police and fire to protect your home. If you want something extra, security, whatever it is, you pay for it yourself. It's not on my neighbor to provide these extra services that I just want for my home. And I think that same philosophy applies to school. It's if you want to have a private education for your child, but taxpayer funds should not follow discrimination. It should not go to places that provide, yeah, education on a silver platter, but with a student body that doesn't represent the demographic of our school community. Taxpayer funds need to go in public schools. And I think that simple philosophy seems to be lost on a lot of people and I'm not really sure why.

Stacey Abrams (13:39)

Well, one of the more alarming changes that we've seen, and I appreciate you being so specific but also so compassionate in this conversation because one of the pieces we've seen in this Republican decimation of public education is the decision to move special education oversight from the Department of Education to Health and Human Services where the anti science secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Has already demonstrated his, I think, apathy towards the health of our children by attacking vaccines and lauding the basically the breakdown of science and knowledge. What impact could this have for students with autism, ones who are neurodivergent or who otherwise have learning differences and need the kind of tailored support that you and your colleagues provide?

Christina Rojas (14:34)

Gutting funding and switching over oversight to a department that isn't based in education is very concerning. I think that's part of the problem that we've seen already when we have people who are not educators, who don't have their feet in the ground and rooted in education making decisions. That's why we have state testing that is culturally and economically biased, determining funding. It doesn't make sense. And so that move also doesn't make sense. We are going to have people who don't understand and who aren't connected, as you said, to science and to reality, making decisions that are going to impact our kids. I wish people came into our schools. I think that's the thing that needs to happen. I wish we had more people who want to make decisions actually come in and see what's happening rather than believing kind of the rhetoric that's spun on different media sites that are funneling this narrative that we're failing here when we're not. We are doing amazing things. Public schools work. What's failing is our government. And what's failing are the people that are taking the legs out from underneath us. And yet we're still moving forward. We're still meeting our kids where they are. And I'm so proud of what public educators are doing across this country. And I really would just say, please come in and see. Please come in and try to do this job. You know, we need subs. I would love for some of our politicians and our decision makers to show up and see what they're doing to our kids.

Stacey Abrams (16:09)

Well, I love two things you said. One is that public school works. That just should be the bumper sticker that folks have everywhere. I am the product of public education, and public education saved our lives. It's. It saved my parents lives, it saved my life and my siblings lives. And this idea that public school doesn't work has always been just. Not just defeatist, it's been incendiary. And one of the things we do on assembly required is try to give people homework. And I think one homework assignment that we should offer to every state legislator and every school board member and every city council member and mayor and executive is that they have to be subs for one day at a public school.

Christina Rojas (16:52)

Yes, I would love that. That is the answer.

Stacey Abrams (16:55)

Well, I want to talk about something else you just referenced, which is how different the lived experience of public school is from how teachers, educators, and students experience it. We know that often in the policy focus for students, the focus is on how policy affects their learning, their safety, and ostensibly their emotional and their physical wellbeing. When we come to educators, it's often a conversation about low wages, long hours, and the challenges of organizing and advocating for yourselves. But as you and I both know, these more often than not intersect as struggles that are mutually reinforcing. And if we solve one, we could solve the other. How do you think about the responsibility of how we bring these two things together, especially in light of these Republican policies that are attacking public education at the federal, state and local levels.

Christina Rojas (17:53)

So I think there's a lot to unpack with that question. I think one thing that first came to mind when we were talking about the perceptions of what people are living versus what is happening on the national stage. I think when we think about gun reform, like policy, in terms of guns in our country, and we think about school shootings, people hear that, they see what's happening on the news. But I don't know if they all realize the training that we have to get as educators and the training that we're giving our kids. One of the programs that we use here is called hero, and the acronym stands for Hide, Escape, Run and Overcome. What's crazy is the O for overcome is at that point, we have to train our kids to pick up books, staplers, whatever you can find in the room, and throw it at the shooter, because now that shooter is in the room. We have a K4 program here in my school. They are learning Hero. Why are our leaders in this country not standing up to defend us? We are here to educate kids. They are here to learn and be safe. It shouldn't be our job to also fight these lunatics that are coming in and doing this. So that's one piece, but I think the attacks on collective bargaining are huge. We want to have wages and working conditions that make us able to be independent in our communities. We want to have health care that keeps us working and safe and healthy. We also want to have pensions that allow us to have dignity as we get older. So all of these things have only happened because of unions, and they're only going to continue with collective bargaining power. You know, unions, we know, made the middle class, but I think what we have to get back to is in order to rebuild the middle class, we have to, you know, unionize, and we have to protect collective bargaining rights. And I think that's huge. And it's not about greedy teachers. That is not the case. You look at any classroom teachers are the ones that are filling in the gaps. We are the ones buying food. It goes beyond pencils and erasers. I mean, we are buying clothes. We are buying sanitary napkins for our teen girls. 90% of the kids in my school district, we have 10,000 students. 90% are economically disadvantaged. So school lunches and what's offered here only goes so far. And so, yeah, we can write off $300 on our tax returns for what we're buying. That's nothing compared to the second or third homes or yachts that the super rich get to write off. But I think we're forgetting that it's so much beyond that. The amount of money that we put into because we want to, because we are here for the kids. And we will figure it out and we will fill. Fill in the gaps. We will teach them to throw books and staplers, but that doesn't mean that's the way it should be. And that's where I call on our leaders to actually stand up and lead.

Stacey Abrams (21:08)

When you think about where your power as an educator runs into the power of policymakers to decide what you can do, what's your call to action for parents and for just good people in your community, or what do you need them to be doing right now to help you navigate this disconnect that you're describing?

Christina Rojas (21:33)

I think two things. I think first, we need to talk to each other again and not continue to give into the social media divide that's kind of happened across the country. I mean, as a speech pathologist, I'm always gonna favor communication. I'm always gonna favor putting down devices, especially for our youngest ones, and talking to each other. And I think that's huge. And I think we have to get back to that because we have to remember the relationships that we have with each other and what's so important, and those relationships are what get us through those tough times and those tough conversations. We need to come together and remember that we are all Americans. We love this country, and we need to come together to continue to make it better and actually make it great by coming together. I think the call to action would be to really own our power, to own the power of voting and holding our legislators and our leaders accountable. Because I think people are getting so overwhelmed and inundated with news and the negative that they almost feel like, well, it doesn't matter. And I think that's the missing piece, is that so many of us all have these basic needs. We all believe kids should be able to come to their public schools. They should be able to be safe, they should be able to get the education. We should give teachers the tools that they need. But our legislators don't seem to be hearing that. And I think having sensible gun reform, having sensible cyber charter school reform, these things are not radical ideas. And I think if we just talk to each other to get the understanding of why this is important, and then showing up all the way, not just when it comes time to vote for president, but at your local level. People forget how important school boards are. They are huge. People always want to blame the teacher on what's going wrong, and they're not realizing it is the school board who's making these decisions. And so we have to see if you don't want certain things happening in your city, well, who's on your city council? And that's what I ask for. I'm asking on behalf of fellow educators for your vote, for your vote for public education, for your vote for educators, and for your vote for our kids.

Stacey Abrams (23:51)

So let Me know where I need to send my vote and my check? No, because I think.

Becky Pringle (23:56)

No.

Stacey Abrams (23:57)

I think what you've just described is one of the cornerstones for how we save our democracy, but more importantly, how we build the country we say we want. And one of the other flags that you raised earlier was the issue of technology and how that intersects with communication. There's the technology that's been used to fracture us. But we also know that in our schools, technology has become both a boon and a harm. We see more and more schools beginning to address device usage and the effect it has on children. But at the same time, we know that educators are grappling with the impact of AI and the effect that has on learning and development. What are you seeing? And as a speech pathologist and as an educator, what do you wish we were talking about more, Thinking about more?

Christina Rojas (24:45)

Oh, man. I think for me, the big piece is being able to keep devices out of our youngest kids hands. As a speech pathologist, we need to talk to our kids again. I mean, I see so many kids who are just barely even able to hold the cell phone, and they're on it. There is research out there that supports that kids really shouldn't be in front of devices before the age of three. But I think talking to each other in the car, talking to each other at home, we're missing that. Now. Our kids are not hearing the examples of their parents having a rational discourse. They don't know how to do that because they're not seeing it anymore. And so then they come to school and they're not coming in with those basic oral language skills. And then we're expecting them to be able to write, we're expecting them to be able to read, when oral language is huge for literacy. And so I think if we put the devices down, it would help us as a society for our youngest learners, but also as people to be able to communicate, see each other again, and talk about what's really important, and then we can actually build those relationships. And that is what's gonna get us through those hard times.

Stacey Abrams (26:02)

As a speech pathologist, I mean, what you just said about the importance of actually engaging your children, having those conversations, how is so foundational to their literacy, but also their socialization. What's the one policy that you would recommend? Everyone listening who says, I'm gonna do this one thing, I'm gonna go to the school board and I'm gonna ask for this policy. What's the most effective policy? Not the most complicated, but if they could ask for one thing. What's the thing you want them to ask for?

Christina Rojas (26:35)

I would, I think at the end of the day asking the school board members, how often do you sub in the schools? How often have you been in the classroom in a meaningful way? Have you ever stepped in and covered for an hour so that, you know, various teachers can actually go to the bathroom during the day so that people can actually get a lunch? I would encourage the same thing for our legislators. If they want to speak to what's going on in our schools, hold them accountable to actually being and knowing what's happening in our schools.

Stacey Abrams (27:07)

Well, Christina Rojas, when you decide to put your name on the ballot, count me in. Thank you so much for your time here today on Assembly Required.

Christina Rojas (27:15)

Thank you for having me. I appreciate you.

Stacey Abrams (27:19)

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Stacey Abrams (28:52)

Becky Pringle and Sharia Smith welcome to Assembly Required. Both of you have spent years in education. Becky as a former middle school teacher now serving as NEA president, which I would say was probably really good training and Sharia as a former elementary school teacher, now an attorney with the Office for Civil Rights and the union president representing the Department of Education. And I would say that you were probably overqualified for your job, just like.

Sharia Smith (29:22)

Most black women we are seeing, though.

Stacey Abrams (29:26)

I was just saying, going from elementary school to dealing with lawyers, that that is not a one to one transition.

Sharia Smith (29:32)

I'll take elementary school.

Stacey Abrams (29:37)

And you both have done such extraordinary work in your roles leading up to this dramatic change that we saw happen in our country starting in January. And in particular, we have seen this alarming rise of attacks on public education that Trump is elevating. But we've watched this happen with Republicans for years, from attempts to dictate what gets taught in school schools to massive funding cuts to executive orders that are geared towards dismantling the Department of Education and a court decision that said it could do so. I know there's a lot for us to cover, but before I get into the depths, I want to really talk about background and anchoring, why this matters so much, why people who think that public education is important but isn't vital to saving democracy, tell them why. What's the language they need to use to explain why? Why education, why public education is a center of how democracy works.

Becky Pringle (30:42)

Stacy, I'm glad you added the word public. And the reason I say that is.

Sharia Smith (30:47)

Because.

Becky Pringle (30:50)

Our democracy here in the United States of America is like other democracies around the world. And throughout time, it is access to a universal, free education for all. That is public education. And we know that public education is the foundation of a democracy. The ability for every child in this country to have access to a high quality education, to be able to learn, to think critically and work, and in collaboration with other students and educators to solve the wicked problems that we have today. That's all a part of being a democracy, being prepared to ask your government those tough questions. And we know that this administration wants no part of that. They do not want a highly educated citizenry because they don't want people asking questions and becoming a discerning public. And so necessarily, they like any society or government, pick one, any place in this world, throughout history, you can always see that trajectory of their rise and their fall. And as soon as they start taking away the right of their citizens to learn, that's when they begin to falter. That's when an authoritarian regime starts to lose its foothold. And so it's why throughout history, educators themselves specifically, and unionists, Sharia specifically, too, have an outsized role to play in sounding the alarm, using our voices to do that, telling real stories about real students who are impacted, educating the broader public about what's actually going on. And then as unionists taking the kind of action to mobilize, to organize and mobilize in a way that we actually can do everything possible to beat back that reign, that rise toward unfettered access to power and money.

Stacey Abrams (33:19)

Well, Sharia, I wanna follow up on that and ask you to build on what Becky has said and talk about this in the context of why we have and more importantly, why we need a fully functioning Department of Education.

Sharia Smith (33:32)

Yeah, I will say my coworkers and I, we've been very confused by these attacks because, you know, we're like, we're do gooders. Why would anyone not want us to be performing our jobs? I actually worked at some major law firms before where I worked for the Man. And I can understand why people would not want high powered lawyers making it easier for banks to foreclose or what have you. But what I don't understand and what none of my colleagues understand is why you do not want working people. And that's who we are helping other working people. So the functions of the Department of Education are twofold. One, we provide funding. We provide funding to schools. We provide funding to states. We provide funding to our fellow American citizens who are trying to obtain their education and improve their status in life. We also provide oversight. Now, you might have your suspicions about who would not want oversight. They're generally the bad actors. But I think most of us would want to make sure that schools are doing right by our kids. We would want to make sure if we send our kids to schools that they're not going to be mistreated because of their race. We want to make sure that if we send our kids to the school and they require extra time on a test or another accommodation, that they will receive their accommodations. That is the work of the US Department of Education. And Becky is so right. As unionists, it is important for us to be myth busters and to speak truth to power. And a big myth that's been created is about what we do in that agency. And Becky and her members can attest we do not have control over the curriculum. That's happening in classrooms. That's controlled by the states. We are not responsible for whether or not school students are testing well. That's controlled by the states. What we did do before they fired all of our people is we analyzed those test scores to say, hey, these are what we can improve upon. This is where we rank amongst the world. And so when you fire people who are analyzing the data, if you're firing the people who are providing oversight, if you are firing people who are providing the funding that is needed to have the programs that you and your children rely on, that is an attack on the American people. And that allows an illegitimate government, much like the governments that, you know, every other government that attacks education, to make up the facts for themselves.

Stacey Abrams (36:17)

Well, both of you have referenced legitimacy and government authoritarianism. And I've been having this conversation over the last few weeks and intend to keep having it, which is that there are 10 steps in the autocrats playbook, in the authoritarian playbook. And step four is that you break government so it doesn't work for anyone. And then there's step eight, which says that you go after those who would help protect the vulnerable. And so when I think about those two, and then inserted in the middle of step seven, and that's when you go after the vulnerable, the marginalized, disadvantaged, you go after dei. And by attacking education, this is a moment where not only attacking education, public education as a central good, but also attacking the Department of Education and its workers and the dismantling of the work of the Department of Education. And it's like a, it's a, it's a bank shot. You get all three for the price of one. And so, Becky, I want to start with you here. We know that this administration is picking up on years and years of state led attacks on public education with this trope that I think, Shreya, you were just dismantling, which is that it's necessary because funding should be left to the states, not the federal government. That decisions should be left to the states. Can you talk a little bit for our audience about what has happened when that power shifts to local governments without the oversight of the federal government and without a federal mandate for public education for all 50 states and territories and such.

Becky Pringle (37:54)

So, you know, Stacey, at the end of the 60s, as part of the civil rights movement movement, education of course, was a part of that. And the original enacting of the elementary and Secondary Education act was a byproduct of the civil rights movement to say very clearly that the government had a role to play. The federal government had a role to play in ensuring that every student, every student had access and opportunity and resources. That specifically was focused on those students who came from families that had lower incomes. It specifically was focused, though broadened when the Individuals with Disabilities Education act was passed, but it did begin that focus on students with disabilities. The role of federal government was to ensure that regardless of where you lived, your zip code, that you would have access to. But as Sharia said, the Responsibility of Curriculum and the alliance share of the funding comes from the states. But in those particular places where the federal government must play a larger role to try to get at the equity of access and opportunities, that's where our students are suffering, are already and will continue to suffer the most. But we have seen throughout time when the federal government does not play that role in defending issues of equity and access that too often states do not. But we know that the states will suffer because of the big, bad, terrible, really horrible, no good bill that was passed in every way. And one of the first things they'll go after in terms of taking away funding is public education. And the students at most risk, those who have historically been marginalized, they will be the ones that will be impacted first.

Sharia Smith (40:04)

You know, this attack on public education is so far reaching because there is not just the public funds that they're withholding from states, it is also the funds they're withholding from colleges and universities that train qualified teachers. We have an administration that is now saying that historically Hispanic serving institutions are unconstitutional. And we know that that is just a canary in the coal mine. They're not going to stop with HSIs. They are going to continue to HBCUs. They've already attacked larger research universities and the first things that are going to go our financial aid to people who do not come from wealth. I'm a former teacher. I need a college degree. I went to Harvard to teach my fifth grade students and I think my fifth grade students were benefited from my education. You are going to stop the pipeline of talented teachers in the classroom. You are also with the elimination of our largest division federal student aid, you are taking away the student loan forgiveness for those people who would be entering the classroom. So it's not just an attack on current funding. They are attacking working people down the line. They are preventing qualified and educated working people to then educate the next generation. And I think that that is something I wanted to make sure to speak to.

Stacey Abrams (41:42)

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Stacey Abrams (44:18)

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Stacey Abrams (44:31)

Get more with geico. The Supreme Court of the United States gave the Secretary of Education the authority to slash half of the Department of Education. And you've just given us a handful of some of the impacts. And I want you to talk for a second more about vulnerable students who are in low income communities, students with disabilities in particular. Talk a little bit more about why these cuts are so dramatic and I think tying it back to what Becky was saying about the nature of the federal government and protecting these students. Can you talk a bit about what you're seeing happen because of these cuts?

Sharia Smith (45:10)

Yeah. So this gets to an earlier point you made about how this administration is doing a three pronged attack, like three birds and one fell swoop. So you're cutting the employees who themselves are recipients of public funds. I'm a recipient of Pell grants who have children. You're cutting their jobs. And their jobs happen to be the data analyzers that justify why certain school districts or certain HBCUs need more funding or how well the funding is working. You are then cutting out the people who would provide oversight to make sure that those funds are being used appropriately and used to help all Americans, not just those who might identify politically with certain people. So when you cut people from those jobs, it allows this administration to make things up. So then they can say, you know what, we're slashing these budgets because they weren't useful anyway. And there's no one to check. There's no one to provide oversight, to say, wait a minute, you can make effects. The current secretary of education is right now doing a nationwide tour of schools and she just left Mississippi, which is a state I know you're from, Stacy. My grandparents are from. She announced that Mississippi is leading the country in literacy. She announced that before school even started in the state of Mississippi. So how would you know that they're leading illiteracy? What data points are you even referring to to make that statement? This is why myth busting is so important and challenging what is being said to you. It explains why illegitimate governments don't want an educated populace. Because if you do not have an educated populace, you could say the world is flat. You could say up is down and down is up. And there is no one to challenge what you are saying or speak truth to power. And they're going to begin to tell us anything. So they'll begin to tell us, oh, well, there are no vulnerable students. They can tell you anything. And if you're a parent, you're like, wait, my kid can't read. Oh, that's great. They are meeting all the metrics.

Stacey Abrams (47:35)

And I think that goes to this larger conversation about the $7 billion in education programs that were cut at the beginning of the school year. And earlier I referenced step four is you break government so it doesn't work, so you break public education. And then I talked about step eight and one of the parts of Step eight is that you have to have a civil society that steps in. And one of the most important parts of that are our unions. And I want to just lift up for this moment that when that happened, when that $7 billion in education programs were paused, it was money that was forced to be released thanks to the efforts of organized educators like yourselves and your allies. So, Becky, what would have happened if that $7 billion had stayed paused?

Becky Pringle (48:19)

So from after school programs being cut to meeting the specific needs of our students with IEPs, individualized IPS education programs, our students with disabilities, to summer school, to the amount of educators that we have, and not just teachers, we're talking about counselors and we're talking about nurses, we're talking about food service workers, we're talking about bus drivers, which, by the way, it was during the pandemic that people started realizing how important it was that we had the people to get the kids to school. And when we didn't, when we had a short, well, we still have a shortage. Then their bus routes became longer and kids were on buses for over two hours, which is unacceptable. That's an unacceptable way to start an end their day. So that $7 billion, because a lot of people will say, well, they released it, they unfroze it. So why are you complaining about that now? It's people who haven't spent a day in a classroom that don't understand the chaos they inflicted on educators, parents, and students right towards the end of a school year. And Sheree, I know you feel this because it's just like the beginning of school every year. I'm not in the classroom right now, but I still feel the excitement and the anticipation because it's back to school. Right? And you never lose that. The same thing is that when you're closing down a school year, you're getting ready to go into summer, you're trying to make sure the kids have what they need. You're meeting with parents, you're doing all these things, you're meeting with your colleagues and administrators, planning for the next year, and all of a sudden, boom, the president saying he's taking $7 billion away. So now you are already starting the work for the next school year. The administrators are already making decisions about whether they can keep the number of educators on. So they're immediately going into riffing teachers in that mode. All that happened while the rest of the world wasn't paying attention. All of that chaos happened for three weeks. You can't undo that damage because then educators and students were going off to the summer, and they weren't there together to try to plan for that next year. And it's exactly, Stacy, what you lay out with your 10 steps, it is chaos and confusion. It's deliberate. And it doesn't just go away because somebody says, oh, okay, I didn't mean that. It still lingers. And it lingered as we went back to school because of decisions that were made that then they had to undo and redo it. So unions like ours and Sharia's are, of course, standing up and speaking out. And one of the things that we certainly, as educators realized we had to do was to make sure that our educators understood how powerful their stories were and then to actually provide them with the training so that they could learn how to tell those stories of real students and real parents and how it was going to impact the people who don't. They don't even know how much they depend on Medicaid. They don't even understand that in their rural area, the impact that's going to happen from that bill, they don't understand that. But we have to make sure that educators and parents and the students themselves, by the way, can tell those stories so they can make the connection back to this administration while they're giving more tax breaks to billionaires.

Stacey Abrams (51:53)

Well, we celebrated when you all were able to block that 7 billion. But Sharia, we know that last Monday, House Republicans proposed a 15% cut to DOE's budget for the 2026 fiscal year. And we know the Senate is considering a different plan that would mostly maintain the current discretionary funding, but doesn't add anything. So, Sharia, can you talk, just pick up on what Becky was saying, like, if this cut does pass, what will be the impact and is there a way to fight it?

Sharia Smith (52:23)

Yeah, you know, what you have as a unionist is a tensional inflation of emotional distress on working people. So Becky says, spoke a little bit about teachers not being able to prepare or not even knowing if they're going to have jobs because of the interruption of funding. I will say that that happened to our workforce months before. That happened to our workforce in January, where they started day one, placing people on leave for suspected DEI activity, then telling everyone, well, you might as well quit because we're going to get rid of the funding. We're going to eliminate your agency. And so they fired in February many of our probationary employees. Still to this day, we don't know why they were fired. We don't know why the people were placed on leave because of suspected DEI activity. We have not Been told what DEI work they actually performed and why their counterparts who had the same jobs were not placed on leave. Then, certainly in March, they did a reduction for. For over half of our workforce, threatened to eliminate our jobs and our ability to take care of our families. In June, luckily, with solidarity from other unions, we got a lawsuit to stop that until August 1st. But when you have these continued attacks and threats to your jobs, and this funding deficit is just another one. So they've had to reinstate people that they put on leave or that they fired in February, much like they had to start giving the funding to states. But the damage is already done. The intentional infliction of emotional distress is already done, and they're continuing on with it with threats to further defund our agency, so then they can actually conduct a legitimate reduction in force. And so you have talented people who dedicated their lives to serve the public, to help other working people obtain an education. Shell shocked, wondering, even though I've been reinstated by this litigation, how long will my job last? Will I be able to pay my mortgage or pay my rent? And so what is happening with federal employees? And, you know, and it's. I want to really emphasize that this is happening to federal employees, employees that should be the most protected in this country. And if this is happening to us, it is no surprise that that has happened to, you know, what has happened to teachers this summer. And I think that's a reflection of what is going to happen to other working people in this country. And that is the importance of unions. You know, to our core, we represent working people. So when you're talking about defunding a federal agency that you have already ran through the ringer, emotionally fired the people, only to rehire them six months later, where the work is all backed up. So some of the people that cases that we were handling, many of those students have graduated. So we can't even give them relief because you put us on ice for seven months. That is what I anticipate is going to happen to more and more working people in this nation. And it starts with, unfortunately, it started with us.

Stacey Abrams (55:48)

Well, Becky, I want to pick up on the Human Element piece because I want both of you to talk about your years as public educators. You understand firsthand what it looks like when a student hasn't eaten or is struggling with severe hunger. And now we have 18 million children who risk not having enough to eat throughout the school day. Can both of you share what put a human face on what that experience is like and why wraparound services in schools are so important. Becky, you and I have talked about the impact that this elimination of school meals will have. Can you talk a bit about it from your vantage point, formerly as a teacher and now as someone who's helping guide so many educators in the classroom?

Becky Pringle (56:31)

When most of us HEAR the number $186 billion cut from the SNAP program, we can't even imagine that. Right. And so one of the things that's really important, and we've worked with our members on, is we did all of the gathering information, research Stacy, and put together state by state and drilling down to congressional district by congressional district. What does that mean? So that people can actually wrap their heads around what $186 billion cuts will mean. These are your kids, your families, your schools, your communities. And this is what it will mean so that they can talk about it from that place. It's because of these cuts that when I put together my back to school tour last week, I said to my team, I want to go to places where the community is doing its very best to stand in these gaps the best they can. Yes, that's what it's about. Community come together. It's our shared responsibility. When we say every student, if we mean every student, then we have to share that responsibility. But you know that the gaps have gotten bigger and they've gotten greater. So more students and families have fallen into the gaps, not less. So right now we know that this year our teachers are spending upwards to $500 out of their own pockets to try to fill in gaps. We can't fill these chasms. It's not possible. I visited Alhambra, California, where our local. There, our local union set up a food bank. And the need was so great, they couldn't. The union couldn't continue to do it. And so they reached out to the city council and they helped to try to fund it. So now they have this incredible food pantry that's feeding kids and families, by the way. Kids and families. That's what we learned in the pandemic, is all of them, not just the kids. And they said how they. The last big drive, they had over 2,000 people show up. They had to turn away 300 families. You know, I've been asking this question, and I've been saying, who doesn't want to feed the babies? We know who doesn't want to feed the babies. As educators, Sheree, and you and I know that kids can't learn if they come to school hungry and if their entire family is hungry. We know that when they go home and they need that support from their families. Their families are just struggling to try to find something to put food on the table. So it is unacceptable. And those are the kinds of things that we need to that we are working with members and parents and community organizations, faith organizations, all of us coming together and saying, yes, we will pitch in, we'll do our part. But that should never say to the federal government that's the way it should be. No, they have made a promise to our kids and they need to keep it.

Stacey Abrams (59:45)

Absolutely. Sharia, I want to come to you and talk about another aspect of this administration. And I say Trump and Republicans, because everything that his administration is doing could be blocked by an act of Congress that says, no, you cannot. And yet they are complicit. What I want to talk about here is we know that today we're filming this on a Monday. The Supreme Court has just said that it is permissible to stop and abduct people on the streets because they are suspected of being immigrants. We know that as part of the immigration sweeps that have happened so far, ICE agents have been stationed outside of public schools. They've already arrested two New York City high schoolers who were dreamers. And a Los Angeles high school student with special needs was detained, among others. And what this decision said, this was on the shadow docket. So there's no real explanation. It says that race and ethnicity, as well as speaking Spanish or speaking English with an accent, can be used as predicates to stop and detain, which you and I both know means stop and abduct. And so, Sharia, as an attorney, what can public schools do and what can allies of public schools do to help safeguard these children against these arrests?

Sharia Smith (61:07)

I think this situation illustrates the danger of an arbitrary administration. It illustrates the danger of not having oversight. You don't have anyone to check whether or not these abductions or detainments are legitimate. And if they are able to do that with one group of Americans or one group of people, there is nothing to stop this administration from doing it to anyone. And we've seen it historically. There's that famous poem about first they came for the socialists and I didn't do anything because I wasn't a socialist. And then they came for the unionists and I didn't do anything because I was a unionist, so on and so on, and then they came for me. I think as an American, it frightened to hear about people being detained by ICE without due process, because if that can happen to young children, it is only a matter of time that it will happen to me. But maybe Peggy can speak more intelligently.

Becky Pringle (62:22)

Well, you always speak intelligently and defend our rights at every level, Sharia. So we, first of all, thank you. Here's the thing. Safety. As I alluded to before, NEA is preparing to join a lawsuit against the government for that exact ruling as it relates to immigration. Schools have always been recognized as one of those safe zones. Now they're expanding to not only schools, but places of worship, community organizations, really basically anywhere they want to go. And it is up to us to fight. And we're going to use every tool we can to wage that fight. And I want to talk about those specific tools. You have 10, I have seven, Stacey. But before I do, before I do, I'm going to read what Justice Sotomayor said. We should not have to live in a country where the government can seize anyone who looks Latino, speaks Spanish, and appears to work a low wage job. Let's just think about that a minute. So we know who they're targeting deliberately with this decision. And she goes on to say, rather than stand idly by while our constitutional freedoms are. Are lost, I dissent. Thank you. Thank you, Justice Sotomayor. But here's the thing, stacey. As our 7,000 delegates gathered as our annual convention, I said to them, I need you to take action every day. Every day. And so I'm going to say to you seven verbs. Seven verbs.

Sharia Smith (64:19)

Verbs, they are action words.

Becky Pringle (64:21)

I need you to commit to me that you're going to take some kind of action, one or all of these seven verbs every day. Educate, communicate, organize, mobilize, litigate. But we can't stop there, can we? Because they don't really want to follow the rule of law. So litigate, legislate, and finally elect. Because we have an election coming up. We have lots of elections coming up, let me say, because all of them from the school board, which is where we're focused right now, we've got to pass policies that are closest to those babies and closest to our communities to try to mitigate all this crazy and stupid and horrible and cruel that's happening to federal government. So we're very hyper focused at that level. So I don't want, I want to say it's just about federal elections, but it certainly is. Absolutely. And that's coming up. And so all of those things. So that's what I've asked my members to do. Take action. One or more seven verbs every day.

Stacey Abrams (65:27)

Well, I think that that is a perfect place for us to close our conversation, because if not, we will be having this conversation through next week. You two are extraordinary leaders who have lifted up what we need to be doing. Sharia, Becky gave us seven verbs. I'm going to give you 30 seconds to give us one more call to action. If there's one other thing, you are protecting not just the workers who defend and lead the Department of Education, but all of their constituents. So what's something that you are asking our listeners to do to help support that work?

Sharia Smith (66:09)

I think question everything and force the people who are being paid to represent you to actually represent you. So it's not just the voting booths. These people are supposed to work for you every day. And if they are not working for you, if your child is not receiving food, if your child is afraid that their that they're going to be mistreated or that their classmate might be mistreated, then you need to make sure that you let your member of Congress and your senators know that that bothers you. If your school district is saying, oh, we are missing funding, so we're going to have to raise your property taxes because we're no longer getting that funding from the federal mean federal government. You need to raise hell to your member of Congress and your senators. It is their job to work for you 365 days a year. And they don't want you to know that. Right? They want you to think, oh, all I have to do is every four years I have to vote for them. They are supposed to work for you every day and you should absolutely make sure that they are doing their job.

Stacey Abrams (67:14)

And I'm going to add just a little bit of an editorial note there. You want to call your school board members to make sure they're calling your members of Congress. You want to call your state legislators to make sure they're calling your members of Congress. You want to call your city council members to make sure that they're calling your members of Congress. Everyone who lives in your state who is elected to public office has the responsibility to call on our federal leaders to do their jobs. So, Sharia Smith, Becky Pringle, thank you both for what you are doing for people at the local level, at the state level, at the federal level, and more importantly, how you are saving public education for the next generation of Americans. So appreciate you both.

Sharia Smith (67:54)

Thank you.

Becky Pringle (67:55)

Stacey, thank you so much.

Christina Rojas (67:56)

Ladies.

Stacey Abrams (68:04)

As always on assembly required, we are here to give you real, actionable tools to face today's biggest challenges. So first, be curious. Public education is the cornerstone of democracy and attacks are becoming increasingly prevalent and terrifyingly successful. To learn more about how these attacks have misled policymakers and parents, read the Death and Life of the Great American School System by Diane Ravitch. Number two Solve problems whether you have children in school or not. Protecting public education is a job for all of us. The kids today become our nurses, bankers and plumbers tomorrow, and we are a better society. If they are ready for the world. Everyone should be attending a school board meeting and do at least one before December. Learn more about what's happening and be vigilant. If you're a parent, talk to other parents in your school to raise awareness about the issues. Don't assume everyone knows what's going on, and most importantly, empower your older children to join you in these efforts. Third, let's do some good. Food insecurity will be especially rampant starting this fall. Consider joining up with Neighbors to offer weekend food packs for kids backpacks that include snacks and canned goods to tide children over during the weekends. For more information, visit www.feedingamerica.org and search backpack Program. As always, if you like what you hear, be sure to share this episode and subscribe on all your favorite platforms. And to meet the demands of the algorithms, please rate the show and leave a comment. You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you go to listen and learn. And please also check out my substack Assembly Notes for more information about what we discussed on the podcast and other tools to help us protect our democracy. In the next few weeks, we're going to continue continue Talking about the 10 steps to autocracy and Authoritarianism and how to fight back. I'd love to hear more about what you're seeing on the ground, groups providing mutual aid, innovative neighbors doing extraordinary things and issues you aren't hearing enough about. If you have a report, a question or a comment for me, send it in. You can start with an email to assemblyrequiredrooked.com or leave us a voice and you and your questions and comments might be featured on the pod. Our number is 213-293-9509. Well, that wraps up this episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams. Be careful out there and I'll meet you here next week. Assembly Requirements is a Crooked Media production. Our lead show producer is Lacey Roberts and our associate producer is Farrah Safari. Kiril Palaviv is our video producer. This episode was recorded and mixed by Charlotte Landis. Our theme song is by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Thank you to Matt de Groat, Kyle Seglin, Tyler Boozer, Ben Hethcote and Priyanka Mantha for production support. Our executive executive producers are Katie Long and me, Stacey Abrams. Did you know?

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