The Right to Read and Fighting Book Bans with LeVar Burton

Summary

Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams: Episode Summary

Title: The Right to Read and Fighting Book Bans with LeVar Burton
Release Date: September 26, 2024
Host: Stacey Abrams
Guest: Reverend Carolyn Abrams & LeVar Burton

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams, Stacey delves deep into the pressing issue of book bans in America. Joining her are two pivotal voices: her mother, Reverend Carolyn Abrams, a former librarian and ordained minister, and the legendary LeVar Burton, author, actor, and avid advocate for literacy. Together, they explore the origins, impacts, and solutions to the alarming rise in book censorship across the nation.

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Conversation with Reverend Carolyn Abrams

Personal Connection to Literature

Stacey opens the episode by sharing her personal connection to books, inherited from her mother. Raised in a family where books were cherished over material possessions, Stacey emphasizes the foundational role reading played in her upbringing.

Stacey Abrams [00:39]: "Because we can't fix everything, everywhere, all at once; but we can each do something, somewhere, soon."

The Evolution of Book Bans

Reverend Carolyn provides historical context, highlighting how book banning has transformed from isolated parental objections to an organized political movement. She references the 2023 report by the American Library Association (ALA), noting a record number of book challenges, particularly targeting diverse voices and public libraries.

Protecting Librarians and Libraries

The discussion shifts to the targeted attacks on librarians, with some states imposing criminal penalties on them for simply doing their jobs. Reverend Carolyn urges listeners to support librarians by:

• Connecting with local libraries
• Joining or forming advocacy groups
• Reporting any attempts to ban books

Reverend Carolyn Abrams [12:12]: "Banning books is not the answer."

Religion and Book Bans

Addressing the conflation of religious beliefs with book banning, Reverend Carolyn emphasizes the importance of separating freedom of religion from freedom of speech. She defends the role of librarians in providing diverse materials while upholding parental responsibility for guiding their children's reading.

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Dialogue with LeVar Burton

Introduction to LeVar Burton

After a brief interlude, Stacey introduces LeVar Burton, renowned for his roles in Roots, Reading Rainbow, and as Geordi La Forge in Star Trek: The Next Generation. LeVar brings a wealth of experience in storytelling and activism, making him an ideal guest to discuss the fight against book bans.

The Significance of Banned Books Week

LeVar elaborates on the importance of Banned Books Week, framing it as a crucial period to spotlight and counteract attempts to censor literature. He underscores the motive behind book bans as a bid for control over narratives and, by extension, reality.

LeVar Burton [20:43]: "It's a play for control. We all know and have known for a long time that, you know, the game goes. Control the narrative, and you control reality."

Literature as a Civil Right

Delving into his documentary, The Right to Read, LeVar presents literacy as a fundamental civil right, equating it to access to clean water and safe shelter. He passionately argues that censorship not only denies access to stories but also undermines individual and collective identities.

LeVar Burton [34:04]: "I believe that storytelling is the thing that binds us all together. All of our hopes, our dreams... It is the sum total of who we are."

Impacts of Book Bans on Marginalized Communities

LeVar highlights how book bans disproportionately target works that reflect the lives and histories of LGBTQIA individuals and people of color. He questions the rationale behind censoring Pulitzer and Nobel-winning authors like Toni Morrison, emphasizing the cultural and educational losses these bans represent.

Strategies to Combat Book Banning

Stacey and LeVar outline actionable steps to resist censorship:

1. For Authors:

   • Continue writing and sharing diverse stories.
   • Engage with publishers to prioritize inclusive literature.

2. For Publishers:

   • Increase diversity within editorial teams.
   • Support and promote works by marginalized authors.

3. For Consumers:

   • Support local and school libraries.
   • Purchase and read banned books.
   • Advocate for intellectual freedom by reporting attempts to ban books.

LeVar Burton [48:18]: "Find a level on which you can engage that makes sense to you... Support your school librarian. Support your local librarian. Read banned books, Buy banned books."

Reflections from Star Trek

Drawing parallels from his experience in Star Trek: The Next Generation, LeVar shares lasting lessons on cooperation, respect, and the importance of diverse narratives. He relates the show's ethos of peaceful exploration and mutual respect to the current fight against book bans, advocating for a society that values diverse stories as essential to its progress.

LeVar Burton [51:32]: "The essence of Star Trek is the idea of peaceful exploration... It promotes a world that I certainly wanted to live in."

Personal Commitment to Activism

LeVar emphasizes the necessity of marrying indignation with action, echoing Stacey's own approach in her political career. He advocates for proactive involvement and continuous advocacy to protect literary freedoms.

LeVar Burton [38:01]: "I consider that at this point in my life, my job is to be LeVar Burton... It is important and really essential that those of good conscience stand up."

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Actionable Toolkit for Listeners

In the concluding segment, Stacey provides listeners with a "Toolkit" to take immediate action against book bans:

• Be Curious: Educate yourself and others about banned books and the reasons behind their censorship.
• Do Good: Support libraries, authors, and organizations fighting for intellectual freedom.
• Solve Problems: Engage in community advocacy, report book challenges, and organize events to raise awareness.

Specific Actions:

1. Report Book Challenges: Use the ALA’s online reporting tools.
2. Write to Authors: Express support and appreciation for their work.
3. Organize Events: Host reading clubs, webinars, or local gatherings to promote banned books.
4. Support Literacy: Encourage reading among children and adults alike, ensuring access to diverse narratives.

Stacey Abrams [54:07]: "The fight to protect reading never ends. So go to the ALA website for resources, ideas, and even a Pinterest page to get you brainstorming."

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Conclusion

Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams successfully navigates the complex terrain of book banning, blending personal anecdotes with expert insights. Through heartfelt discussions with Reverend Carolyn Abrams and LeVar Burton, listeners are not only informed about the dangers of censorship but are also empowered with the tools to take meaningful action. This episode serves as a clarion call to protect the freedom to read, ensuring that literature remains a vibrant and inclusive cornerstone of society.

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Notable Quotes:

• Stacey Abrams [00:39]: "Because we can't fix everything, everywhere, all at once; but we can each do something, somewhere, soon."
• Reverend Carolyn Abrams [12:12]: "Banning books is not the answer."
• LeVar Burton [20:43]: "It's a play for control. We all know and have known for a long time that, you know, the game goes. Control the narrative, and you control reality."
• LeVar Burton [34:04]: "I believe that storytelling is the thing that binds us all together."
• LeVar Burton [48:18]: "Find a level on which you can engage that makes sense to you... Support your school librarian. Support your local librarian. Read banned books, Buy banned books."
• LeVar Burton [51:32]: "The essence of Star Trek is the idea of peaceful exploration... It promotes a world that I certainly wanted to live in."
• Stacey Abrams [54:07]: "The fight to protect reading never ends."

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This detailed summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting the key discussions, insights, and call-to-action segments. It provides a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened, ensuring they gain a deep understanding of the critical issues surrounding book bans and the collective efforts to combat them.

Transcript

[Stacey Abrams]

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[LeVar Burton]

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[Stacey Abrams]

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Welcome to Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams from Crooked Media. I'm your host Stacey Abrams. While I am better known for my work in the civic and political realms, I'm also a published author. I've written legal and political thrillers, nonfiction, romantic suspense, and three children's books, including a new one coming out September 24th. And one reason I love to write is that it gives me the excuse to be nosy. It also allows me to dive into topics outside of my regular life and to explore new ideas. It's in fact, the first part of my mantra, which is be curious. The rest is to solve problems and do good. And for me, reading and writing are foundational. It's how we understand the world around us and the universe inside us. Growing up reading showed me and my sisters and brothers possibilities that our daily lives never could. And so the idea that some want to restrict access to books is a personal affront. Yet book bans have once again reared their ugly heads, and the proponents aren't shy about it. Often the argument is that the books in question offend someone's moral code. And many of the arguments presented to challenge or to ban books, or about protecting children from sexually explicit content or the incredibly vague epithet obscenity. This is not a new argument or a new line of attack. In fact, in 1973, the US Supreme Court decided to offer a guide in response to the perennial question in a case called Miller v. California. In their decision, the court devised a way to assess what is considered obscene in a book, in a film, in a work of art, and it's now known as the Miller Test. Basically, the court instructed states that statutes could classify material as obscene if it describes or shows sexual conduct in a patently offensive way, or lacks serious literary, artistic, political, educational, or scientific value. Yet this test is being ignored, or worse, being manipulated to justify prohibiting books that discuss issues related to the LGBTQIA community or even basic sex education for older children, including modern classics like Are you their God? It's me Margaret and similar titles. Book banning isn't new, but it has evolved. It used to be that one parent would speak out about a book their child was reading, but today the data points instead to this being an organized political movement. Conservative groups distribute book lists to their followers around the country for them to demand removal or restrict access to large swaths of books in their local communities. For 34 years, the American Library association has been keeping track of banned and challenged books. And still their latest report for 2023 had some record breaking facts. For one, the highest number of challenges of unique titles ever were documented by the ala. The report also found that this surge was driven by groups and individuals demanding the censorship of dozens or even hundreds of titles at a time. The ALA also said that book bans were targeting more public libraries, not just libraries and schools. So to explain my guest here, targeting libraries is as personal to me as book bands, in part because I was raised by a librarian. My mother, Reverend Carolyn Abrams, became an ordained minister in 1992. But for the first half of her career and the first half of my childhood, she was a college research librarian and the head of the college library where she worked. And because she is my resident expert on the matter, I've asked her to join today's conversation. Hi, Mom.

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

Hi, Stacy. Good to be here.

[Stacey Abrams]

Thank you, Mom. When we moved from Georgia to Mississippi in 1989, I distinctly remember dad pointing out that we had more boxes of books than clothing, which was quite a statement for a family of eight. We might have left some shoes behind, but the books came with us. Can you talk a little bit about what books mean to you and why they were so important?

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

Books have always been important to me. Books have been a lifeline for me. Books allowed me to know that there was a better world out there. My childhood was not perfect. In fact, I needed books to show me that there was something different. Just being able to read, being able to have access to a public library. We called the public library, and that was a one room building in the black neighborhood because it was segregation time and we could not even enter the public library in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, where I grew up. I just love books and I wanted my children to love them too.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, you did that. In fact, I remember sleeping in the stacks at William Carey College as a kid. You passed on this love of books to me and to my brothers and sisters. What does it feel like to know that you passed on that love of books and for those listening who are trying to encourage their kids to read, what were some of your practices when it came to encouraging us to love reading?

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

Well, I didn't really know what I was doing at the time that I was doing this, but I want to talk about my oldest daughter, Andrea. When she was a baby, maybe around one and two years of age, she would just follow me everywhere. And when I would take a break, we'd curl up in the bed and read the newspaper. I would have one section of it, and I'd give her the other section. And we would do this every day. And I just longed for the time when she could actually read the words on the paper that she was staring at. And with the other children, I chose books that would challenge them. They started out, of course, with picture books. And again, Andrea became so fascinated with learning and reading that she organized the school with her siblings, and she would really have lesson plans. When it was time for Andrea to read her first chapter book, I.e. novels without any pictures at all, but really a novel, I chose Little Women for her to read. Stacy was around maybe about 4 years old at the time, and I saw Stacy reading the book that I had given Andrea, and I wasn't. I did not know that she could actually read all those words because she was still in picture books. And so I told her to read for me, and she. And she actually read the books. The other thing is that my children read World Book Encyclopedia for fun. I watched them, and I kind of laughed to myself because I said, they don't know that other children don't actually read the encyclopedia. Nope. Those were their friends, so.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, we had other friends.

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

You had other friends? Yes, you did have other friends. But books, books, just like books, were fundamental for me, books were important to them. And so all of my children read. So it's fun for them. It's not a job. And that's my legacy, I believe. I love learning. I love books.

[Stacey Abrams]

So one of the things that I learned from you and dad was about the fact that when we face a challenge, we have to focus not just on the problem, but on the solution. And there are a lot of people who are hearing about book bans and will learn about it during Banned Books Week. And they're going to say, you know, disgust and despair. You know, can you believe this is happening in 2024? But there's nothing we can do about it. It's a lost cause. I've watched you and dad fight some pretty amazing battles. And before we were here, you and dad were Both involved in the civil rights movement as teenagers. How do we tell my listeners who believe we've already lost the fight? What do we tell them to keep them engaged? And how can we reframe the issue so it feels more approachable to them?

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

Well, Stacy, I'm not so sure we need to reframe the issue, because what they see, what is happening, is really happening. It is an effort to take us back, to keep us ignorant of our past and to do what was done to us before. I see the banning of books as a part of a major move, and some things they're just putting out in the open, such as Project 2025. And all of this leads to stopping us where we are, preventing us from learning about our past. So we need to see it for what it is. We need to protest. We need to form groups. We need to check with our libraries to see what's going on. We need to see what others are doing. We need to just use all the tools at our disposal to stop it.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, one reason I wanted you today is that we know that it's not just schools that are being attacked and books are being attacked. They're also attacking librarians. There have been laws passed in a number of states that actually put criminal penalties on librarians for doing their jobs. Can you talk a bit about what we can do to protect librarians and make sure that they feel the support they need to keep doing this vital work?

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

Those of us who know what is going on need to connect with the librarians. A lot of libraries will have committees or advisory councils, and if they don't, make sure that they do have some connection with the. With the community. Find out what they need. Find out if books are being banned in a particular library and in states where it is a criminal. They've criminalized passing out books that are on the banned book list. Contact their legislators. Just the things that you would do if you were protesting or if you was trying to get something done.

[Stacey Abrams]

When you left the practice of being a librarian, it was to answer the call to the ministry. And a number of those arguing for book bans claim that it's religion that's making them do it. What's your response as both a pastor and a librarian to this argument that people of faith should be supporting banning certain texts?

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

I would say to the. To the groups. I think one is Mothers for Liberty or. And other. And groups like that. I would say to church. Church members, to quote, unquote, Christians, that the same amendment that protects freedom of religion also protects freedom of speech. Librarians have always been careful to separate the materials that are in libraries. You have a children's section, you have an adult section and everything else that's needed. But it's the parents responsibility to make sure that their children are reading what they need to read what is appropriate. And banning books is not the answer.

[Stacey Abrams]

You heard her say it. Banding books isn't the answer. Mom. Thank you so much for joining me on Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams. And before you go, I have one more favor to ask.

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

Okay.

[Stacey Abrams]

Would you mind hanging around for a second to help me welcome our special guest who is none other than the legendary Levar Burton?

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

Oh, I love to. I'd love to. He's one of my favorite people.

[Stacey Abrams]

Excellent. Well, more after the break. Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Clean water, fresh air, our health, electricity. We tend to take for granted the things that matter most, like the separation of church and state. For more than 75 years, Americans United has been on the front lines defending your freedom to live and believe as you choose, so long as you don't harm others. But that right is not a given. Every day it seems like Christian nationalists are hatching new plots to force us all to live by their narrow beliefs. Backed by a billion dollar shadow network, this vocal minority is pushing their anti democratic agenda everywhere. But here's the thing, you can make a difference. Join Americans United for Separation of Church and State and their growing movement because church state separation protects everyone. Learn more and get involved at au.org crooked now at T mobile get four.

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[LeVar Burton]

For 25 a line per month when you switch with eligible trade ins. All on America's largest 5G network.

[Stacey Abrams]

Minimum of 4 lines for 25 per line per month with auto pay discount using debit or bank account, $5 more per line without autopay plus taxes and fees and $10 device connection charge phones via 24 monthly bill credits for well qualified customers. Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance on a required finance agreement due bill credits end if you pay off devices early.

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[Stacey Abrams]

In addition to my deep commitment to the written word, I'm also an avid, or some might say rabid fan of television. One of my favorite franchises of any and all times, assuming there are alternate timelines, is Star Trek. And I began with a show that relaunched it all. Star Trek, the Next Generation. Name and right.

[LeVar Burton]

Lieutenant Commander Geordi laforge, who gave them the right to decide whether or not I might have something to contribute. Every time you talk about yourself, you use the word we. We want this, we want that. We are all separate individuals. I. I choose what I want to do with my life. I make decisions for myself.

[Stacey Abrams]

Of course. That voice you heard is actor, director, and filmmaker LeVar Burton, playing the iconic Star Trek character geordi La Forge. LeVar Burton's embodiment of the chief engineering officer of the USS Enterprise was groundbreaking, a tendency he has in every domain. Before I met him as Jordi, I already knew him from his award winning role in Roots and as the beloved host of Reading Rainbow, which I watched fanatically as a kid. He now hosts a podcast called LeVar Burton Reads, and today we're picking his brain about books, book bands, and what we can do to save us from doom. Thank you so much for being here, Levar, if I may be so bold as to call you Levar.

[LeVar Burton]

Of course. Hi, Stacy. And Mrs. Abrams. How are you?

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

I'm good, and I'm especially well now that I have gotten a chance to see you, to meet you. Thank you.

[LeVar Burton]

How did I get so lucky?

[Stacey Abrams]

Before my mom, Reverend Abrams, became a minister, she was a librarian. And when I told her you'd be joining assembly required, she refused to leave.

[LeVar Burton]

So I must tell you, Mrs. Abrams, that teachers and librarians tend to be my favorite people on the planet.

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

Oh, great. Great.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, Mom, I know you actually have to go, but I like to start the show by asking people about their origins because, as you know, you taught us to read the encyclopedia, to read books, and to learn about the beginning of things. So would you like to ask LeVar Burton an origin question?

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

Yes, I would. Well, LeVar, as a storyteller, actor, and activist, how did you start your storytelling and reading journey? What's the origin story of the levar Burton who reads?

[LeVar Burton]

That's actually one of my favorite stories. My mother, Irma Jean Christian. Every time I have the opportunity to speak my mother's name aloud, I do. Irma Jean Christian was my mother's name. I am the man that I am, largely because she was the woman that she was. And Irma Jean did not play. You either read a book in Irma Jean's household or you got hit in the head with one. It was your choice, but you were going to have an encounter with the written word. Okay. And of course I'm kidding, but all of. I mean, my mother was an avid reader, Mrs. Abrams. She always had at least two, sometimes three books going for her own personal enjoyment. She loved Louis L'Amour. She loved Westerns, both to read them and watch them on tv. We took two daily newspapers when I was a kid, and I tell people all the time that, you know, my mother didn't simply read to us when we were kids. I have two sisters. I'm the middle child between two girls. She read in front of us, and that's important. Modeling that I think a lot of parents leave out. Right? If you want your kids to read more, let them see you reading. I tell them, and then I ask them, what are your kids? If you want your child to read more, what's your. Do you know what your child is passionate about? Because it is our passions that tend to drive our reading appetites. And I've said for years, if your child loves superheroes, then buy your kid comic books. Cause I simply want kids to read.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, mom, thank you so much for joining us.

[LeVar Burton]

It was an extreme and joyous pleasure. Reverend, thank you so much for joining us this morning.

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

And thank you for being here. Okay, take care now. Okay.

[LeVar Burton]

God bless your mom.

[Stacey Abrams]

How awesome she is. Amazing. I am incredibly grateful to have you here. You were the honorary chair of Banned Books Week last year. We're airing this episode during banned Books Week 2024. In addition to being a bit of an alliterative challenge, what is Banned Book Weeks for? And why is it so important for you to be a part of this conversation?

[LeVar Burton]

It is a week every year where we highlight the effort to ban books, to censor educational materials, to control the literature that our children have access to and are exposed to. It seems that in recent years, the. The week. I can't call it a celebration necessarily, based on why we pay attention this particular week of the year to ban books. But it has become clearly and evidently necessary to shine a light, to bring awareness to the efforts coming from different quarters of the country to, you know, to engage in this sort of sensorial behavior. It's simply not okay and needs to be Stacey, in my view, exposed for what it really is, which is a play for control. We all know and have known for a long time that, you know, the game goes. Control the narrative, and you control reality. And that's never been more true than it is these days, so it shouldn't be. But it has become an important week on the calendar for me and for a lot of Americans.

[Stacey Abrams]

You have been such a force for not just literacy, but for understanding why the written word matters. And as an actor, you've given us this lived expression. And now in your podcast, you read aloud from Short fiction, and you talk about the piece for a few minutes. Afterward, you offer your perspective and why you like the story so much. For example, there's one episode from earlier this year where you read a story by Percival Everett, the appropriation of cultures, and you talk about Confederate symbols, the Civil War, and what it means to be woke. Why is that such a vivid example of how literature can challenge and inspire us?

[LeVar Burton]

Well, Percival Everett, I have to begin by saying, is one of my favorite authors, and he is a challenging writer. He does like to challenge the reader. This particular story really grabbed me because it grapples with the notion of not just the south, but its love affair with the Confederacy, and in particular, a song that is really, really established in the lexicon of Southern tropes. Right. And what happens in the story is the song is adopted and adapted by a black man, and the song is Dixie. Right. I wish I was in the land of cotton Right. Look away, look away, look away, Dixieland which you wouldn't think that a black person would embrace, necessarily because of the imagery, because of the meaning, because of the attachment that the Old south had to this song. And the New south kind of, you know, holds up as an example of, you know, what the south represents. And I know I'm talking in generalities, and I hope and I know your audience is sophisticated enough to understand that when I say the South, I mean a certain aspect of the South. Right. I'm not, you know, painting the entire region of the country with the same brush. And we all know what I mean. So there's that. But it's a challenging. It was a challenging story for me to read. And as the host of LeVar Burton reads, I mean, it's my podcast. I get to read what I want. And so I tend to lean into speculative fiction, science fiction. And I read my favorite authors because part of my reason for wanting to do the podcast in the first place was being able to continue a relationship with adults now who grew up on Reading Rainbow. And I'm maintaining a relationship with them around what they're reading and still suggesting to them Authors that they may not have ordinarily heard of. I feel like it's part of the dynamic that I have with that generation just in terms of how I relate to them. And so keeping up with them as adults has been an awful lot of fun with me and challenging them and encouraging them to expand their literary horizons.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, I can tell you it works. Percival Will Everett is actually a writer that my siblings and I read. My five brothers and sisters and I have a sibling book club that helps keep us connected no matter where we live. In fact, when we were kids, our parents would take us to the public library during the summer to load up on reading for the week. I think the librarians got a little afraid because you had this swarm of children who could check out unlimited number of books, and there was a bit of a dispute about how many we could actually take with us at a time because they were surprised that we would take so many, each of us and decimate the shelves. But it was for our family and our working class family. We might not have had an exotic vacation, but books took us everywhere. And you've, as you said, you not only have this generation of children that are now adults that you're reconnecting with, but you've just long been invested in bringing children to the world of books, to the world of reading. When we think about book bans, what might we be missing in the conversation about why book bans are so dangerous and so harmful to children in this moment of growth and exploration?

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, that's a great question, Stacy. I like to say, you know, every book is not for every child, but there is a child for every book. Right. Every book isn't for everybody, but there is somebody for every book. And the idea that we would take it upon ourselves to determine for someone else what is appropriate for them. Right. Which is a conversation that, you know, really belongs between the child and the child's parent. I grew up in an era in the, you know, I was born in 57, grew up in the 60s and the 70s during the Civil rights movement, where the line between right and wrong was absolutely, clearly delineated. We seem to live in a world now where that line has blurred somehow, and that truth is not truth and right is not right, and wrong can also not be wrong. And I think more than anything else, I'm just trying to hold on to the reality that makes sense to me. And it does not make sense to me to ban books, to censor materials written by black people, people of color, to censor materials about black people. Indigenous people and people of color. It just does not. It's not. It's not the country that I grew up in. It's not the country that I believe we aspire to be. It's. It's. It's pretty low behavior. Those who have what I consider to be a puniness of heart are really exercising what I feel is kind of the last gasp of an outmoded way of thinking and being. And at least I hope what we are experiencing is the last gasp of an outmoded way of being.

[Stacey Abrams]

I know you haven't put politics on your list of things to do, but that was the most effectively political way to state that that was very well done. Outmoded. I'm going to start borrowing that to describe some of my disagreements.

[LeVar Burton]

Well, I think that it's really important in this conversation to adopt language that isn't inflammatory. Right? Yeah. Because we're all getting our buttons pushed. And on a personal level, when I get my buttons pushed, all reason goes out the window and I'm in this sort of Neanderthal mode. And the logical, rational part of me just leaves the situation. And so I'm trying in my own life to really communicate. And I ask myself all the time, do you want levar to be effective in your communication or do you want to feel like you're right? And I'm trying to err on the side of being an effective communicator.

[Stacey Abrams]

I know I said that with a smile, but I do mean it. That was an incredibly well reasoned way to put it, as someone who often had the responsibility as minority leader to negotiate with the other side. And it was in my title that we were going to disagree, but it was in my job description that we had to get to agreement. The ability to create space for people to be wrong in a conversation or to evolve is absolutely essential. And so I was not being snarky when I said that was a very well said political phrasing, because the more we can do that, the more space we create for people to come in.

[LeVar Burton]

And join us and have conversations that we absolutely need to have in this country. The persistent avoidance of these conversations is what's essentially wrong with America. It is the thing we must address more than any other, because unless and until we do, there will be this tension that we as a nation have not reconciled our past. And there's just no moving forward unless you can handle what's come before.

[Stacey Abrams]

Absolutely. To the point of things we don't talk about enough. My mom who was here was a librarian, but what also informed my passion for reading and storytelling is my dad. My dad is dyslexic. He went undiagnosed until his 30s. And you've studied what it takes to teach kids to read and why literacy remains out of reach for millions in this country. And in fact, it's the subject of your documentary, the Right to Read. And in the fight over book bans, we sometimes ignore that there are tacit bands that come with the high illiteracy rates and the limited access not only to books, but to learning tools, to reading tools. Can you share with our audience why literacy, as much as the stories that they. That we get to engage, are so vital to society?

[LeVar Burton]

Now we're talking. Because this is why I. I do what it is I do. Because I believe, Stacy, that storytelling is the thing that binds us all together. All of our hopes, our dreams. Everything that we have ever wanted to or will ever want to express as a species is done through our storytelling. It provides the foundation for who we are, how we move through the world, both on a personal level and a micro level and a macro level. Right. It is our stories that matter. It is our stories that shape our points of view and our purpose in life. I say all the time, you know, that the stories that we tell are critically important because they are the sum total of who we are and what we are and why we are. We have access to all of that information, and it is contained in our stories. They are precious and eternal, and no one should have the ability to censor them, to say, no, this story. This one bothers me. This one, nah, let's take that out of circulation. It's just. It's not okay. There is value in all of it. As I said before, every book ain't for everybody, but there is somebody for every book.

[Stacey Abrams]

One of the things that's so important about the way you talk about the right to read is that most of us who have had the privilege to learn to read, we can name specific books that hold a very special place in our hearts. And part of why book banning feels so wrong is this idea of denying a future reader access to a story, access to a narrative that changes how we understand who we are. And in fact, we know that the sixth most challenged title in 2023 was the bluest Eye by Toni Morrison, which was published in 1970. You know, Morrison won a Pulitzer. She's won a Nobel Prize for her writing, and yet still her stories are being targeted by organized campaigns to erase her works. How do you make sense of this and why someone would want to prohibit the telling of such a uniquely American story. And then my second question is, what's the book that you love that you're worried someone might try to ban?

[LeVar Burton]

Big questions. Both, I guess. First of all, going back to the right to read, we posit in the documentary that literacy is indeed a civil right. Okay. And that it is as important to the human being as is clean water, safe shelter, right? These are our birthrights as human beings. And so when we are pulling stories out of circulation and engaging in those acts of denial, what are we really saying? Right? When you tell me that I should. My story should not be represented. Right. Or a story that is valuable to me should be pulled out of circulation, you're telling me that I don't matter, that I am somehow less than. It's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like changing someone's name, isn't it? Right. Kunta Kante refused to accept the name Toby. Why? Because it was an integral part of his identity. The stories that we tell ourselves and the stories that we hear and read and absorb along the way in life, these are essential elements that make up who we are. And so it doesn't make sense to me. I mean, that's what's so confusing to me about this whole issue of banning books, Stacy, is that it just doesn't make sense. And so I'm trying to look at the underlying cause, Right? And what I keep coming back to is that this is a power play. It's an effort to exercise control. And we certainly seen that before, you know, throughout history, one group is always trying to control another group. We are no strangers to that dynamic in the United States. And so I recognize this behavior as part of a larger pattern of behavior that has gone on for, you know, for a long time in America. And every time things like this happen in this country, there are people of good conscience who know better, who rise up and speak out and point out the fallacy and the irresponsibility that's being engaged in, and as I say, the downright puniness of spirit.

[Stacey Abrams]

I could just listen to you talk all day. You should think about doing this for a living.

[LeVar Burton]

Well, you know what? I consider that at this point in my life, my job is to be Levar Burton. And what that means to me is as a storyteller, you know, I'm so lucky to be able to make a living as an actor, a writer, a producer, a director, a podcaster, a public speaker. I can't make my living just doing One single thing. And I've never been comfortable, you know, putting all of my eggs in one basket. Irma Jean used to say, you have too many irons in the fire. And little did she know that, you know, that that sort of ADD behavior would turn out to be a boon in show business. Right. But I think that at the end of the day, it is important and really essential that those of good conscience stand up. There is a such thing as right and wrong, and no amount of pretending to the contrary is going to change. Change that truth. So if me standing up in a moment where folks are engaging in dubious behavior around the issue of banning books, if that means I need to stand up and say something, then so be it, because somebody has to, right? And the behavior of one can certainly inspire the behavior and attitude of many. So, you know, I grew up in the civil rights movement. This is just the work. This is what we do. Right? This is what boots on the ground means. Part of a. Look, there's politics in everything, Stacy. You know that.

[Stacey Abrams]

Absolutely.

[LeVar Burton]

And to ignore that aspect of life, especially life in America, it just doesn't make sense to me. It is incumbent upon all of us to get involved. And if that means I'm woke, then so be it. Because, you know, it may not mean the same to some folks, but, you know, woke means the lights are on. Woke means that I'm awake and alive and aware. Right. And ready to take on whatever comes my way. The alternate is to be asleep and.

[Stacey Abrams]

Exactly.

[LeVar Burton]

Willfully ignorant. And that's just not my thing.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, one part of the question I had for you earlier was about your favorite books. You spend a lot of time sharing books with others, but when you think about the books that are being challenged, nearly half of the censorship attempts in 2023 targeted titles that were about the lived experiences of the LGBTQIA community, of people of color in general, of black people with mind numbing regularity. What book are you worried about? What book have you discovered recently? Or do you hold as just important to you? Do you worry might end up on the list? And I don't want to give anybody any hints about what to put on there, but. But is there a topic or is there an author that you worry about that we need to protect?

[LeVar Burton]

I worry about all the authors. Right. And all the books, but most particularly this subject about the enslavement of black people in America and the squeamishness we have about sharing that part of who we are as a nation with school age children. Now there is such a thing in all things there is age appropriate, right? And then age inappropriate. And that's certainly true with a lot of the objections to LGBTQIA representation in literature. So the thing is, we can't allow the views of some to dictate the reality of the rest of us. It doesn't make sense. And so it is the history of America that is trying to be censored that bothers me. I really do see the enslavement of black people in this country and the original sins of America as being the key to moving into a more harmonious future in this country. Because unless we tell ourselves this story in a truthful and honest way, which we have never, ever done, we are going to continue to be plagued by this division and this conflict and this tension, which is certainly a large part of the American zeitgeist right now.

[Reverend Carolyn Abrams]

It's better over here.

[LeVar Burton]

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[LeVar Burton]

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[Stacey Abrams]

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[LeVar Burton]

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[Stacey Abrams]

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[LeVar Burton]

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[Stacey Abrams]

You are such not only an extraordinary spokesperson, but as you said earlier, you come out of the civil rights movement. You've come out of this notion that you have to marry indignation with action, that it's not just. It's not enough to just be mad. Well, thank you.

[LeVar Burton]

Marry indignation with action. I'm going to use that.

[Stacey Abrams]

You are welcome to it.

[LeVar Burton]

Thank you. That's powerful.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, thank you. Thank you. Well, so one of the missions of this show is to not simply explain what has gone horribly wrong in society, but my mission is to help enlist our listeners to solve the problem. And as you know, sometimes the problem, if it's the span of a James Mischner novel, it can feel too much. And so we've got to pick chapters, we've got to pick scenes, we've got to pick the places where we can enter. So, LeVar Burton, I am conscripting you today because I need you to fix book bans by walking us through the roles, because I know you're not only an actor and a writer and a producer, you are a director. And so I'm going to have you through a series of questions, walk us through the roles that various actors should play in this fight. So, number one, let's start with authors like me. What can we do as authors to protect the freedom to read?

[LeVar Burton]

I think one thing that authors don't necessarily think about is having these kinds of conversations with their publishers, right, and letting their publishers know how important this issue is to them. And I think most in the publishing industry are certainly aware and on board of this, you know, the idea and the effort to ban books. But I think, you know, for authors specifically, just keep writing, right? It's. We need the stories. You are uniquely positioned to provide that kind of sustenance to the soul of the people. And so I say, please, please, please, keep telling stories. Keep doing what it is you do. You provide a really essential service to humanity, one that you are uniquely positioned to provide. So more than anything else, just keep doing. You keep writing, y'all. Keep writing and keep writing about what is important to you and what you are passionate about. Tell good stories for the good of the people.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, you raised the issue of publishers. What role do publishers play? I mean, you would hear them sometimes say that they're limited by their need to sell books or they don't have the power to join this fight. And yet they are essential players. So what do we need publishers to do?

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, we need publishers to, you know, to open up the ranks. We need them to pay black writers and people, writers of color. We need to pay them. We need, you know, more. We need more diversity in the editorial staffs. Of these big houses. You know, there have been some fits and starts. You know, there have been some recent efforts that have, you know, sort of fallen by the wayside. Right. So there definitely is a part that they. They need to play. And they're not unaware. They're just reluctant.

[Stacey Abrams]

Okay, so we've done writers, we've done publishers. What do consumers need to do to show our support for these important stories and the urgency of pushing against bans?

[LeVar Burton]

Find a level on which you can engage that makes sense to you. If you're a parent, get involved at your child's school level. What's in the library? What's not in the library? How's the school librarian doing these days? They're under a lot of pressure right now. Both teachers and librarians are under a tremendous amount of pressure around this issue. Support your school librarian. Support your local librarian. Read banned books, Buy banned books. The things that we can do on an individual level, lots. There's a myriad of things that we can do to get involved. Make the issue personal to you. Put yourself in a position where you can imagine that something very near and dear to your heart in terms of what's available in the literary firmament is being denied you for no really good reason. There is no good reason to ban a book. Right. Like I say, there are books that are inappropriate for certain audiences, but that's always been the case, and that's always going to be the case. And that's not what we're talking about. We're not talking about inappropriate material being being given to children. It's just not going down that way. So take it personally. Take the issue personally. Take it as a personal affront to your personal freedom. Put it on that level and see how that moves you towards action.

[Stacey Abrams]

We are reaching the end of my time with you, and unbeknownst to many, I have had the extraordinary privilege to meet you once before, where you and I were engaged in a trivia contest, and it was on Star Trek trivia. And you very rightly bested me. It is my favorite defeat of all time. We have spent a lot of time talking about Reading Rainbow and books. You have, I think, so aptly woven in your seminal work in Roots and your role as Kunta Kinte. But we have not talked about one of the most remarkable things you've done with your life, which is your role in Star Trek as an avowed Trekkie. One of the most extraordinary aspects of the Star Trek world is that while the Federation has tackled, you know, these critical issues, despite what People like to say it's not a utopian world and instead each episode calls for the crew to explore what it means to look for solutions when we don't think we can find answers. So I would love for you to talk about a lasting lesson that you took from your time on Star Trek that you bring into the work you do today.

[LeVar Burton]

I don't think I've ever been asked this question before, Stacy.

[Stacey Abrams]

I'm very proud of me then I.

[LeVar Burton]

Think for me, essence of Star Trek is the idea of peaceful exploration, right. Gene Roddenberry's he posits that there is infinite life in the universe and that as a space faring species we must adopt a respect for all life and that non interference rule, the Prime Directive, right. Never interfere with another species natural pace and pathway of evolution, socially, emotionally, politically, spiritually, stay out of the way. Which I love about Star Trek, I really do. And it promotes a world that I certainly wanted to live in as a kid again growing up in Sacramento, California during the height of the civil rights era, you know, I watched, I was in second grade when John Kennedy was assassinated, middle school when Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King were assassinated. I grew up in a tumultuous time, right? And so Star Trek really became for me a safe place. It was a safe place for me. It's where I felt myself represented. Nichelle Nichols on the bridge of that ship meant that when the future came, there would be a place for me. And I think it's the idea of cooperation, that crew, there's a family and there's conflict certainly, but there is an underlying love and respect that undergirds all of those relationships. And these people also happen to be the very best at what they do on the planet. And so that kind of leadership modeling I really appreciate. Star Trek has always represented a world that I wanted to live in and I guess I have, by being a fan of the show, tried to fashion the world I live in to more resemble that world as much as I'm able.

[Stacey Abrams]

Well, LeVar Burton, as long as you are here in this world with us, we will live long and prosper. Thank you for being here. Thank you for taking the time to join us on assembly required.

[LeVar Burton]

Stacey Abrams, I love you and I am so happy that you are here on this planet in this conversation, fighting this fight. God bless you.

[Stacey Abrams]

I love you too. Thank you sir. God bless you too. Each week we want to leave the audience with a new way to act against what can feel inevitable. An opportunity to make a difference and a way to get involved or just get started on working on a solution. In a segment we like to call our Toolkit, at Assembly Required, we encourage the audience to be curious, do good, and solve problems. So let's start with being curious. Go to Banned Books Week or follow Banned Books Week on all the socials for reading clubs to join and webinars to watch. The theme this year is freed between the lines now to do good and solve problems. The American Library Association's Office for Intellectual Freedom is the one that tracks book challenges, and it needs your help. The OIF estimates it probably only learns about 3 to 18% of all proposed bans. So if you hear of someone challenging a book at your local library, report it. Go to ala.org challengerporting for those of us who would gladly curl up with a book and wish it was enough to change the world, you can do something pretty close. Write a letter to a favorite banned or challenged author thanking them for their words. Look up the Alaska Dear Banned Author pages for ways to contact them. Last but not least, organize your own Banned Books Week event. Unfortunately, even if you're hearing this after the official week, the fight to protect reading never ends. So go to the ALA website for resources, ideas, and even a Pinterest page to get you brainstorming. And as a bonus for the young reader in your life, check out my new children's book book Stacy Speaks up, which helps kids answer the question, what do we do when a rule or a situation feels unfair? Stacy Speaks up is available in your local bookstore or favorite retailer starting September 24th. If you want to tell us what you've learned and solved, send us an [e-mail] or leave us a voicemail and you and your questions and comments might be featured on the pod. Our number is 213-293-9509. Well, that wraps up this episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams. Meet you here next week. Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is a Crooked Media production. Our lead show producer is Stephen Roberts and our associate producer is Paulina Velasco. Kirill Paulaviev is our video producer. Our theme song is by Vasilis Fotopoulos. Thank you to Matt DeGroat, Kyle Seglin, Tyler Boozer, and Samantha Slosberg for production support. Our executive producers are Katie Long, Madeline Herringer, and me, Stacey Abrams. This Thanksgiving, Target makes hosting easy with our lowest prices of the season like good and gather premium turkey for 79 cents a pound and quality green beans for 55 or classic stovetop stuffing on.

[LeVar Burton]

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