B (3:21)

So it's interesting that you say that the Ayatollah in charge has been replaced by another Ayatila. Ayatollah Khamenei has been replaced by Ayatila Khamenei. How's that for regime change? Indeed. We killed the father on day one, completely illegally. An assassination. Foreign head of state. And we replaced him with his son, muchto Bahamani, who apparently we know very little about him, but is more hardline than the father. And to be honest, can you blame him? They killed his mom, his dad, his wife, his sister. I'm probably guessing he's not in a mood to negotiate with the American government right now, apparently. Stacey. According to Donald Trump himself, they had a bunch of people lined up to play the Venezuela Delsey Rodriguez role in succeeding Kaminai, an American puppet. But they accidentally killed them all in the first strike. Such as the competence of the people leading us into war, that they killed the people they wanted to succeed the supreme leader. So we're in a situation where we're led by incompetent warmongers who start wars without any kind of exit strategy, any kind of goals, any kind of plan, who act shocked when the country that we bomb strikes back against our interests across the region, who act surprised at Iran's attack in the Gulf, have no plan to evacuate Americans from the region. And then on top of all of that, they pretend that this was some kind of war of self defense. Marco Rubio said the quiet part out loud a week ago on Monday last week. He then had to do cleanup in aisle 17 the next day. But he said it. He said we went to war because we believed the Israelis were gonna go to war. And once the Israelis attacked Iran, we were gonna get attacked, so we attacked Iran first, which is insane. The simple solution to that is to stop the Israelis from attacking Iran. It's the equivalent of someone saying, I think my brother's gonna go out, get drunk and crash, so I'm gonna go crash it before he does. It's just insane logic from this administration. But what else can we expect? But look, all their rationales are bogus. Remember when they said it was about saving the Iranian people? Donald Trump said, help is coming. Well, now we're killing the Iranian people. On day one, we bombed a girls, school, killing over 160 children. One of the worst massacres in the Middle east for years at the end of an American gun or bomb. And then Trump lied about it this weekend and said Iran did it when all the evidence suggests we did it.

A (5:31)

Well, and I wanna talk about just the level of incompetence that begins with being able to count. The population of Iraq was 46 million, and our short incursion there lasted more than a decade. Iran is 90 million people. Can you talk about what that means in terms of America's history of fighting wars in places the size of or with the population of Western Europe?

B (5:59)

Yeah, we've seen a lot of montages, Stacey, I'm sure you have, too. Flying around on social media showing Donald rumsfeld saying in 2003, we'll be there a few weeks, few months, not years. And now we have Hegseth and Rubio and Trump saying similar things. A few weeks, four weeks. This is insane. We don't get to pick when the wars we start end. We should have learned that in Afghanistan, where we went in to topple the Taliban, won that war very quickly. I think we went in in September. I think they were toppled by October, November, if memory serves me correctly. And then we were there for another 20 years. It was the longest war in American history. We lost several thousand Americans to an insurgency. Then in Iraq, of course, we were told we would be greeted as liberators. They'd celebrate in the streets. We toppled Saddam again. Pretty quickly. Found Saddam, he was executed by the government we set up. And then what happened? We got stuck there for a decade. Thousands of American troops died from roadside bombs, Stacey. That, they say, the Trump administration says is now one of the rationales for this war. Well, the. The Iranians helped Iraqi militias do roadside bombs against our troops. So our solution is to send our troops into Iran to be blown up directly by the Iranians. I mean, it's insane to think we're considering ground troops right now. As my colleague Sven Soobsang reported for Zateo on Saturday, very strong discussions about ground troops inside this administration. The White House press secretary went on Fox and said, they're not ruling out the draft, which I can't believe I'm saying out loud, insane. But what else do you expect from this administration? So we would lose a lot of troops to an insurgency in Iran, which would make Iraq look like a walk in the park, as you say, a country of 90 million people. Not just a country of 90 million people, but a country that's already rallying around the flag. Trump thought that the protesters from January who were brutally put down by the government, that they would topple this government, they would take to the streets. That hasn't happened. They were completely off on that. The country is even people who wanted American intervention. Stacey. I saw someone telling cnn, CNN have the only American reporter on the ground. I saw someone telling CNN over the weekend, well, I wanted to Americans to bomb. I wanted them to come save us. And now my friend just got killed and I didn't know I'd be dragged into. I didn't know they'd be bombing civilian areas. So we've, you know, turning the populace against us very quickly. An invasion will only cement that. By the way, this is a nation which is run by a religious theocratic regime whose supporters are very, very devout. They believe that killing Khamenei was not just an insult against the nation, but against their religion. These are people who, you know, celebrate martyrdom. Right? Shia Islam has a big, big tradition of martyrdom, of standing up to oppressors, of standing up as a minority. So that kind of messaging will not help the Americans if the American military goes into Iran. And of course, just something that hasn't been covered in our media at all is the eight year Iran Iraq War. The Iranians endured an eight year illegal invasion by Saddam Hussein, backed by us, backed by Ronald Reagan and Donald Rumsfeld at the time. And they used chemical weapons. The Iraqis used chemical weapons. With our permission. Some say with our involvement against the Iranians, they lost half a million. A million people. No one knows. It was insane numbers. Khomeini, the leader at the time, not Khamenei. He waited eight years before he agreed to a ceasefire, reluctantly. So these are people who have unfortunately endured a lot of war. The Iranian people have tolerated a lot of bloodshed and war. The idea they're just gonna roll over in a few weeks is ridiculous. And the fact that they've made much to Bahamani, the Supreme Leader is a real shot across the bar. They're saying this is their defiance, saying, you know what? You want us to roll over and do a Venezuela, we going to put the guy in charge who hates you more than his dad did.

A (9:22)

When we come back, more from my conversation with Mehdi Hassan. Assembly required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by Wild Alaskan Company. My parents love to cook fresh seafood for dinner. But getting the quality they expect can sometimes be a challenge. Wild Alaskan company is the best way to get wild caught. Perfectly portioned, nutrient dense seafood delivered directly to your door. My parents haven't tasted seafood this good since we lived on the Gulf of Mexico and Mississippi and the convenience can't be beat. Wild Alaskan company is 100% wild caught never farmed. This means there are no antibiotics, GMOs or additives, just clean, real fish that support healthy oceans and fishing communities. Wild Alaskan fish is frozen off the boat to lock in taste, texture and nutrients like omega 3s and it is sustainably sourced while caught from Alaska. Every order supports sustainable harvesting practices and your membership delivers flexible shipments, expert tips and truly feel good seafood. Right now my parents are enjoying the sockeye salmon and Pacific Cod. Try it risk free with a 100% money back guarantee. If you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan Company will give you a full refund. No questions asked, no risk, just high quality seafood. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.comassimply for $35 off of your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com assembly for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by Quince these days I'm all about quality over quantity, especially in my closet. If it's not well made and versatile, it's just not worth it to me. That's one reason to love Quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful and the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk and organic cotton poplin. Lightweight cotton cashmere sweaters perfect for the changing seasons and can't miss seasonal colors and prints for spring. Versatile, well made pieces that make getting dressed simple. Quince works directly with safe, ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. You're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores, just quality clothing. Quince uses 100% European linen. Their cotton poplin is crisp and holds its shape. The gauze is soft without being flimsy. Everything Quince makes is built to hold up season after season. The stitching, the fit, the fabrics. These are pieces you'll reach for over and over. Quince clothing is consistently rated 4.5 to 5 stars by thousands of customers. Real people wearing these pieces every day and actually loving them. Now it's almost that time of year when you can bring out your favorite Quince linen pants. They're versatile enough to dress up or down depending on the occasion, and comfortable and easy. So stop waiting to build the wardrobe you actually want. You don't need a closet full of options. You need pieces that work right now. Go to quince.comstacy for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling. For clothes that don't last, go to Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Stacy for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Stacy Mehti one of the other pieces I want to just anchor for everyone listening. For those who do not recall what precipitated the 1980 eruption Iran hostage Crisis can you refresh our memory of the last time the US attempted regime change in Iran?

B (13:57)

So the major regime change you have to go back Even further than 1980, the year that we don't talk about enough in Western media, but which every Iranian knows is 1953. In 1953, Mohammad Mossadegh was the democratically elected left wing prime minister of Iran. This was the height of the Cold War. This was the Eisenhower administration. Anyone who was vaguely left was seen as a secret communist ally. And the CIA, the Dulles brothers and co workers went in and with the British, did a coup, took him out, engineered fake protests and toppled Mossadegh and brought back the Shah, the royal ruler, the king of Iran. By doing that, they not just set Iran's democratic development, secular development behind. They then precipitated something like 16 years of autocracy under the Shah. The Shah was a secular ruler. He was a pro Western ruler, but he was a brutal ruler. His secret police was feared throughout the Middle East. And then by 1979, the Iranians were ready for a revolution. Now that revolution wasn't supposed to just be religious. Let's be clear. There were many, many factions. There was the left, there were the trade unions, there were also the Islamic parties and Ayatollah Khomeini who led the revolution from France and returned as the conquering hero and then stamped out the other parts of that coalition. But that Islamic Revolution in 1979 was precipitated by our coup in 1953. The word blowback that you often hear was a CIA term invented precisely to describe what happened after 1953, the unintended consequences of our dumb and illegal interventions in the Middle eas. It led to the very regime we're now fighting with, which has been in power for over 40 years. And then of course, the Khomeini comes to power in 79 and immediately we back Saddam Hussein against him in an illegal Iraqi invasion of Iran. And of course he takes American hostages because of the Iranian American hostilities and the perception that America is behind the Shah. And then Jimmy Carter's presidency partly fails as a result of that. The failed hostage attempt to release the hostages. There's reports, many reports over the years that Ronald Reagan was secretly telling the Iranians not to release the hostages. You then have Iran Contra in the 1980s, where we're actually facilitating weapons going to Iran in order to fund another illegal war of ours in Nicaragua. So we have a very long and sordid history with Iran. I haven't even got to the airliner that we shot down in 1988, killing hundreds of Iranian civilians that we never really apologize for. And of course the Iranians have targeted Americans across the Middle east in attacks, kidnappings, as we talked about in Iraq. It has been a horrible relationship. But you have to go back to 1953. I know we don't like doing history in the United States. I know we have short memories, we have the memories of goldfish in this country. But in the Middle east, they have quite long memories.

A (16:32)

And I think part of the reason I wanted to lay that out is that we have had interventions, we have had incursions, and now we have war. And this war, I think is incredibly important to articulate as such. The administration has taken to calling it a war when it's convenient and then arguing against the term when it's not. We've seen Trump officials and Republicans in Congress who've claimed that this is limited and targeted, it's an operation. And they did that to justify rejecting a war powers resolution which failed on a mostly party line vote in the House last week. And unfortunately, some Democrats crossed over and are considering funding this deadly and expensive war with no end in sight. So I'd love to, because you are so precise with your language, let's talk about why this is a war and why it is so important that that is the language we use at this moment to clearly and plainly talk about what we are seeing the government do.

B (17:33)

I think everyone with eyes and ears and a brain knows this is a war. Everyone in the world knows this is a war. What was it the Supreme Court said about porn? You'll know it when you see it. This is clearly a war. The idea, the only people who think it's not a, as you say, is administration and members of the Republican Party. And even they can't keep it up for more than a few minutes. I don't know if you saw the hilarious clip of Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, the new DHS secretary, coming out to talk to reporters and say, well, this is war. And then a few moments later, he says, well, it's not a war. And they said, but you said it was a war. He goes, when did I say that? Like this insane kind of almost a parody, almost cartoonish. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Yes. They're not saying it's a war because they don't want an authorization from Congress. They don't want a War Powers resolution. Congress grants the act of declaring war to Congress. It reminds me, Stacey, of Vladimir Putin in 2022. Do you remember the Russians passed a law saying you're not allowed to call it in Russia an invasion of Ukraine. It was called a special military operation. You were banned from saying the words invasion or war in Russia. The Russian media was prevented from doing so. That's where we are now, authoritarian America saying, no, no, you can't call it a war. Don't call it a war. It 100% is a war. Just Air wars, which is a British NGO that studies military conflict. They put out a study a couple of days ago saying that in the first four days of this war, America and Israel bombed more targets in the first four days of this war than the United States bombed in Iraq and Syria in six months of fighting ISIS in the first four days. In fact, double the number of targets that Israel bombed in Gaza in their first four days. And Israel's bombing was seen as unprecedented at the time. We've done more than that in Iran. We've bombed oil depots, we've bombed desalination plants, we've bombed residential areas, we've bombed museums, we bombed a girls school. We have bombed multiple civilian targets. We are, you know, if you looked at the images out of Tehran over the weekend, black smoke, acid rain, horrific environmental and public health consequences from our bombing only a week in, over a thousand Iranians killed over 200 Iranian children. And that's. We're just talking about Iran. We haven't even talked about Israel bombing Lebanon and the 400 people killed in Lebanon that's also going on in parallel. So it's 100% a war. Donald Trump, you know, he'll call it a war when he wants to, Stacey. As you say, they're very inconsistent. If he thinks he's winning, he'll say he won a war, but he's not winning. Right. This is not going according to plan. At all. And so he has to kind of act defiantly. Remember, they did this with Venezuela too. They went into Venezuela in a sovereign country on January 3, took out the leader and his wife and brought them to America hooded and said it was a police action, even though we bombed Venezuela. So they are the masters of Orwellian language, this administration of gaslighting us.

A (20:06)

Well, one of the proof points of an authoritarian regime is the attack on the truth, the replacing of the evidence of our eyes and our ears with the propaganda that we should be able to reject. And I just want to add that in addition to that litany of casualty and carnage, we've had seven American service members who've already been killed. We've had the Defense Department already lie about the video evidence that contradicts what they claimed was the Iranians striking that girls elementary school. And to your point, this is having effect across the broader region, and yet propaganda is being proliferated. And one of the reasons for your launch of Zateo was to counteract this rise in propaganda. And as we watch this increasing authoritarian regime proliferation, I would love for you to talk about how are you monitoring your colleagues?

B (21:02)

Yes.

A (21:02)

How are they doing covering this war and refusing to contribute to the Orwellian gaslighting that's going on?

B (21:10)

It's a great question. And I think independent media right now is more important than ever before. We already knew it was important just by the virtue of Donald Trump come back for a second term and assaulting the truth, assaulting the First Amendment, assaulting the free press in the way that he does. And on a side note, I think it's insane that he's gonna be at the White House Correspondents Dinner and journalists are gonna turn up and pretend that this is a normal president when he's threatening lawsuits and, you know, criminal action against journalists like Don Lemon and others. So it's really important that we all are vigilant in this moment. And that includes people watching and listening to this show, members of the public, but also those of us in the media who have experience inside newsrooms to say, this is not right. This is not what journalism looks like. You know, you've noticed, Stacey, over the last week, Donald Trump has done a lot of phone interviews. He seems to be on the phone all the time with reporters, anchors just chatting away. And if you notice those interviews, because they're done on the phone, there's no real pushback. A lot of them are not recorded. We don't get to see the back and forth. And a lot of the times you see reporters coming onto Twitter saying, I just spoke to the President and he said, xyz. Well, that is not the job of a journalist. That is stenography. Just repeating what the president said with no challenge, no context, no nuance, no pushback, no follow up. That is stenography. That is not journalism. And I think I get they're all very excited. I got to talk to the president. And look, one of the things Joe Biden did so badly, why he screwed himself with the media, is he never made himself available. And it's very easy to impress reporters. Reporters have very low bars. If you talk to them, they're happy. And if Joe Biden had talked to more reporters, they'd have been happier. Donald Trump talks all the time to reporters. And the fact that he lies to them, abuses them, calls them piggy if they're a woman, while he's talking to them, that's all forgiven because he's talking to them. Access is everything. So I think the rest of us who try and avoid access journalism, we need to be clear about what the job of journalism is. It's to ask tough questions. It's to hold the people in power to account. It's to rebut the lies and propaganda and gaslighting from this authoritarian administration. And, you know, mainstream media is not doing a great job, unfortunately. I just watched Face the Nation yesterday. CBS owned property, obviously, David Ellison, Barry Weiss now firmly into the Fox Light camp. And you saw Margaret Brennan interviewing Tim Kaine. She doesn't mention the girls school strike. And when Tim Kaine mentions the girls school strike, she immediately says, well, the Pentagon say there's the investigation and ends the interview. This is where we are with American media right now. They're either afraid of the Trump administration or they're trying to cozy up to the Trump administration. And so the rest of us have a greater responsibility to speak the truth about issues of genocide, of war crimes, of international law, of national sovereignty. Things that people are worried about. We've got to call what's happening. We got to call it out.

A (23:42)

Much more with Mehdi Hasan of Zateo when we come back from the break. Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams is brought to you by Moshe. The days are finally getting longer, but finding extra hours isn't in the cards. So I'm always looking for a protein snack that satisfies me and makes taking care of myself a little easier. One answer is mash bars. Maria Shriver and her son Patrick Schwarzenegger joined forces with the world's top scientist and functional nutritionist to go beyond your average protein bar to create Mach. Each mash bar is made with ingredients that support brain health like Ashwagandha, lion's mane, collagen and omega 3s, plus a game changing brain boosting ingredient you won't find in any other bar. Mosh is the first and only food brand boosted with Cognizant, a premium nootropic that supplies the brain with a patented form of cytokoline. Mash bars actually taste great and come in nine mouthwatering flavors including three new plant based Chocolate Chip Cookie, Hazelnut Chocolate Chip and Peanut. Chocolate Chip Mash donates a portion of all proceeds from your order to fund gender based brain health research through the Women's Alzheimer Movement. Maria's father suffered from Alzheimer's and Maria and Patrick know there's more to be done. Two thirds of all Alzheimer patients are women and Mosh is working closely to close the gap between women and men's health research. Having a Mosh bar is convenient and satisfying. Whether I've missed lunch or I'm ready for a snack, Mosh bars are a great solution. My go to flavor right now is Chocolate Chip Cookie. Mosh helps you contribute to an important cause while you fuel your body and your brain. Head to moshlife.com assembly to save 20% off plus free shipping on the Bestseller's Trial Pack or the new plant based trial pack. That's 20% off plus free shipping on either the Best Sellers Trial Pack or the plant based trial pack at M-H-L-I-F e.com assembly and thank you Mosh for sponsoring this episode. Assembly Required is brought to you by Found. Ask any small business owner and they will tell you that figuring out the best way to manage your finances can get confusing fast. As a serial entrepreneur myself, I know trying to find the right solution can be a struggle. Most of the time you're juggling multiple disconnected apps to manage your business finances or going without sleep just to stay on top of your books. Found eliminates the clutter by giving you one platform that handles it all. Banking, bookkeeping, invoices and taxes. No more paying for multiple subscriptions and dealing with clunky, outdated apps. Found reimagines what business banking should be by putting your bookkeeping, invoicing and tax tools directly into your business checking account. They've automated things like tracking expenses, finding write offs and budgeting for tax time. You can even send invoices for free and pay your contractors everything all from one app. Having an app like this when I started our first company would have been a game changer. As someone who has since helped many other small businesses find ways to grow, I know how useful tools like this can be. Take back control of your business. Today, open a Found account for free@found.com that's f o u n d dot com. Found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by lead bank member fdic. Join the hundreds of thousands who already streamlined their finances with. As a person of color, as a woman, as a southerner, as black, I always carry all of those identities into the work that I do. And I have obligations that go beyond my basic job title as a Muslim journalist. How do you see your obligation in how you cover this very multi pronged and multifaceted war that has consumed at least 11 other nations and counting?

B (28:14)

Yeah, it's not easy. It's not easy, Stacey. It's very hard right now. Especially because even before this war began, Islamophobia was out of control in the US the kind of stuff that people were saying about Zoran Mandani and people like Randy Fine of Florida, the Republican congressman who said if he had to choose between Muslims and dogs, he would choose dogs. Just this morning I woke up to Andy Ogles on this Monday morning, Congressman from Tennessee, Republican and he said, and I quote, muslims don't belong in American society. You could not say that about any other group. Imagine if he said, blacks don't belong in America, Jews don't belong in America. But for Muslims, it's open season. You can say whatever you want. There'll be no censure, there'll be no consequences for him from Mike Johnson. Very few Democrats will even bother to call him out because we've mainstreamed and normalized anti Muslim racism in this country. So for those of us who happen to be journalists but also Muslims, yeah, we are carrying that identity. We are carrying that burden of being immediately tagged as somehow different or biased. Remember, the white man is the norm in our politics and media and they're not biased. Everyone else who's not a white man is immediately engaging in identity politics or has some bias. So I have to kind of always constantly say, well, you know, I happen to be a Muslim and a Shia Muslim. Iran is a Shia Muslim majority country. So for me, you know, it is. People from my community are talking about this all the time. When I go to the mosque in Ramadan, remember they're bombing Iran in the middle of Ramadan. Some of the holiest nights of Ramadan. Right now, when I go to the mosque. That's what everyone's talking about. That's what everyone's afraid of, the consequences here at home. And I think, you know, it's very hard to detach that. I can't just take off my Muslim hunting today. I will be detached journalist and vice versa. I can't just be a Muslim and forget my obligation as a journalist to report this stuff fairly. And it's very hard. I mean, I live in a country now where every other day and a member of Congress or a YouTuber or a right wing journalist will say, denaturalize and deport Mehdi Husson. I get that all the time. It's become the, you know, the insult du jour to say deport an American citizen because we don't like his religion or his race or his political viewpoints. We're in a very dark place, Stacey. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it in any way.

A (30:13)

One of the reasons it's so important to have you on this call today and in this conversation is that we are watching the assault with impunity, and it was instigated by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. I mean, he's told Fox News he's been trying to convince a US president to undertake this attack for 40 years. And so I would love to have you help us unpack, number one, what are Israel's objectives? Because I think it's incredibly important that for as convoluted as America's objectives seem to be, Israel's are fairly clear. And I think it's important for us to understand what they intend.

B (30:55)

So I'm glad you brought that up. Benjamin Netanyahu. The thing about Trump and Netanyahu, the only good things about Trump and Netanyahu is that they say the quiet part out loud. They don't kind of hide what they're doing. It's very clear it's not a conspiracy theory when they're saying it out loud. Netanyahu went on camera and said, For 40 years, I've yearned for this. I've dreamed for this war. And Trump's the only person who agreed to do it, which says a lot about Donald Trump. I'm not going to sugarcoat the records of previous American presidents, Republican or Democrat. Pretty much all of our presidents have had horrific foreign policy records, whether it's Bill Clinton, whether It's George Bush Jr. Whether it's Barack Obama, whether it's Joe Biden. And yet none of those presidents I just mentioned, Democrat or Republican, agreed with Netanyahu to attack Iran. Even George Bush and Dick Cheney did not attack Iran. And Donald Trump did after, by the way, campaigning on saying he would not attack Middle east countries, on saying, Kamala Harris will send your boys to a Middle east war. She's with Liz Cheney. She'll start World War Three. And yet it was Trump who betrayed his own MAGA base, his own anti war supporters, and started this war in the Middle east with Netanyahu. As you say, Trump's rationales are convoluted. He really wants a Venezuela option where he can just kick out the leader, keep the regime and get lots of oil and declare victory and go home. Netanyahu, on the other hand, in the Israeli right, have wanted to break and destroy Iran for a while. It's the last remaining regional power that is against Israel. Right? They've had a lot of luck and a lot of military success against Hezbollah in Lebanon, against Hamas. Obviously, they've bombed the Houthis. Assad is gone from Syria. Iran's really the last part of what the Iranians call the axis of resistance against Israel. So for them, destroying Iran is a long, cherished dream. And here's what's so important to understand and what Iranians in the diaspora who supported this military conflict seem to be waking up to. Over the weekend. I saw a lot of Iranians, Stacey, who support this war right, in the diaspora. And even they're now saying, well, hold on, Israel, why are you bombing oil dippers? We need those. That's civilian infrastructure. Please don't do that. And it's like you're now recognizing, you're now belatedly realizing that the Israelis are not your friends, that Israel does not have the interests of the Iranian people at heart. Israel's interest in Iran is breaking Iran. In fact, there are many people who would argue that the goal was always to instigate a civil war in Iran, to turn Iran into a failed state. A civil war state collapse because Israel benefits from being surrounded by Arab and Middle Eastern countries. In Iran's case, Persian country where everyone's just fighting themselves and no one's stopping Israel, no one's doing anything to Israel. We know that people in Israel support the Greater Israel vision. Netanyahu has talked about a Greater Israel expanding Israel's borders. Mike Huckabee told Tucker Carlson recently. The U.S. ambassador, yes, they can take whatever land they want, thanks to the Bible. So Israel needs Iran to be neutered, needs it to be broken. It doesn't matter the cost. And don't take my word for it. Danny Citrinowicz, who was in Charge of the Iran desk at Israeli Military Intelligence. He now works for a think tank in Israel. He told the Financial Times a few days ago. He said Israel doesn't care if there's a coup. Israel doesn't care if there's a democracy. Israel doesn't care if there's a civil war. Israel doesn't care about the future of the Iranian people. They have their own self serving expansionist goals. I think we need to be very clear about that. Anyone who thinks Benjamin Netanyahu cares about the fate of the Iranian people needs to have their head examined.

A (34:00)

And I want to talk about timing because Netanyahu has said and his lieutenants have said that this is a three week window. But given the quagmire we've seen in Gaza, how likely is Israel's three week window? I mean, if the goal is collapse versus regime change, how do you gauge their timetable versus the American timetable?

B (34:24)

So we know that thanks to Gaza, we know that they are, you know, their own predictions don't work out so well. Although again, you could argue from a cynical perspective. They've got what they wanted in Gaza. They've got a broken Gaza. They've got a Gaza that is uninhabitable and unlivable right now. They've got a Gaza where they're able to ethically cleanse the population. They've got a Gaza where their own people are saying, we're gonna go back in and settle. They've got a Gaza where foreign billionaires are saying, we'll build some hotels on the seafront and turn it into a Riviera with Jared Kushner. So they've got a lot of their goals in Gaza in terms of destroying Gaza and depopulating Gaza, even though they haven't destroyed Hamas. That was supposedly the goal of the military operation. They've miserably failed in that task. And now in Iran, it is the Gaza playbook against states. They're doing everything that they got away with in Gaza because we, the international community, the west, especially the United States government, allowed Israel to act with impunity in Gaza and break the laws of war, break the norms of international humanitarian law, attack ambulances, attack hospitals, attack schools, kill journalists, kill aid workers, kill children at record levels. They're obviously repeating that in Iran. If you're Israel. Well, no one stopped us from doing this in Gaza. Why wouldn't we do the same thing in Iran? And that's what they're doing in Iran, that's what they're doing in Lebanon. They bombed paramedics In Lebanon over the weekend, they've bombed schools and hospitals. In Iran, they're bombing oil refineries, as we've discussed oil depots. It's exactly what they did in Gaza. Hit civilian infrastructure, which is a war crime under the Geneva Convention, to hit indispensable civilian infrastructure. Targets that the population need to survive. Food, gas, water. And that's what they're doing because they can get away with it. Now, no one really knows what's gonna happen in the long run. All of these wars tend to have long term unintended consequences that no one plans for or intends for. And I think that applies to the Israelis as much as it applies to Americans. The Israelis were threatening over the weekend that they might send ground troops in. But I think what they really want is they want American troops to go in. Israel benefits when their people don't have to die, when our people die for Israel.

A (36:15)

Mehdi. Iran has retaliated against the US Israeli war by striking Gulf nations, including striking an American base in Turkey, which is a NATO member. And as you and I both understand, this incursion could force the hands of European nations and further fracture the NATO alliance. For example, Spain has refused to allow the use of American bases in their country. Great Britain has been a bit inconsistent in its response. And to your point, the issue is if they're going to be ground troops. More than likely, the US Would love to have Europe come along and NATO would be the best way to instigate that, and they could do so if there's an attack on Turkey. So I would love for you to just speculate about how this conflict not only impacts our increasingly fraught relations with our NATO allies, but what does it mean when Iran makes that decision? How should we process it?

B (37:15)

Iran is doing what any rational country would do. I'm sorry to say this is not me supporting Iran. It's just pointing out that if you're Iran and you're getting attacked, obviously you're gonna attack back. And you can't hit the American homeland, so you're gonna hit American bases in the region. And they happen to all be in Gulf countries or Muslim majority countries like Turkey. It's amazing that Donald Trump is saying, as he said last week, well, I didn't realize they would attack the Gulf like this. What did you think what they're gonna do? We've known for years that was gonna be the Iranian response. The Gulf countries have known that. And the Gulf countries are torn on this. There's a very prominent Emirati businessman who's written an open letter on Twitter attacking Donald Trump and Lindsey Graham saying, look, we're not happy with Iran attacking us, but we're not happy with you acting as proxies for Israel, acting as puppets for Israel, fighting Israel's war and making us suffer for it. So they're not happy about this. And as for the Turkish government, the Turkish government should be worried about being next from Israel, not Iran. The Israelis are already openly talking about Turkey being the next target. The Wall Street Journal op ed page, which is a reliable, supportive outlet for the Likud Party of Israel, just put out an op ed saying Turkey needs to be dealt with next after Iran. If I'm the Turks, I'm thinking, okay, what am I doing for my own security? By the way, the rocket attack on Turkey, there's still a great debate about where that came from. There was also, sorry, the one on Cyprus with the British base. There's a debate about where that rocket came from because that was a British military base in Cyprus. It's interesting you mentioned NATO because what we haven't talked about is Ukraine. You know what? Everyone no longer talks about Ukraine. The Russians are benefiting hugely from this war because Scott Besant, our Treasury secretary, told India that, hey, you know, we told you not to buy oil from Russia. Well, for the next 30 days, go buy oil from Russia because we need to help the market. So the Russians get a nice windfall, sanctions are lifted. The Indian government gets told the exact opposite to go buy oil from Russia. The Russians now can fund their war effort in Ukraine. Thanks to Donald Trump attacking Iran, the Russians can now attack Ukraine with greater resources. Think about the irony of that in terms of, you know, NATO's position vis a vis Russia. And by the way, we're now asking the Ukrainians to help us fight back against Iranian drones. The same Ukrainian president who was berated in the oval office by J.D. vance and Donald Trump because he was gonna start World War iii. Apparently Zelenskyy was gonna start World War iii. Oh, the irony. So I think, look, it's a very difficult time. If you think this war's unpopular in America, and it is. It's way more unpopular in Europe. In Britain, it is insanely unpopular. Nigel Farage is trying to push the government into backing Trump. Keir Starmer, who's already a kind of lame duck prime minister, is in a very difficult position because the UK Is always expected to step up and back America's wars. Tony Blair, who famously invaded Iraq with George Bush, has told Starmer, who is, he's kind of a mentor to Starmer. He's told Starmer, you need to step up and back Trump. This is the bizarre position we're in. But the publics in France and Britain and all these European countries are dead against this war. They don't want a war with Iran any more than anyone in America does. So it would be bizarre if they offered any kind of actual military support for this conflict. And if they do, it'll be yet another nail in the coffin of our democracies and our representative systems of government. There's a huge disconnect between, between the people and the governments. Democracy can't survive when there's such a massive disconnect. We already saw it on Gaza, where the vast majority of the American public want a ceasefire, wanted restrictions on American military aid to Israel, and Congress just does not reflect that. And now on Iran, super unpopular war. And not just unpopular with Democrats, it's just insanely off the charts unpopular. And yet Hakeem Jeffries, as you intimated earlier, is one of those Democrats, the House leader and saying, well, you know, we may have to fund. I'm not gonna rule out funding the war.

A (40:37)

What more from my conversation after the break. A strong democracy doesn't happen by accident. It's built deliberately through laws that protect everyone's freedoms, not just those with power. One of those protections is the separation of church and state. The First Amendment ensures that government serves all people equally, regardless of faith, background or belief, and that no one is forced to live under someone else's theology. Today, that principle is under threat from movements that want to blur the lines between religion and government, narrowing who truly belongs in our democracy. The Freedom From Religion foundation works to defend that boundary in schools, courts and public institutions. So freedom of conscience remains a right, not a privilege. This is about fairness, it's about inclusion, and it's about building a democracy that works for everyone. Visit FFRF US Stacey or text my first name S T A c e y to 511 and support the work of protecting our shared freedoms. To learn more, go to FFRF US Stacey or text my first name, Stacy to 511-511. Remember, text my first name, Stacy to 51-1511 and help protect a country that belongs to all of us. Message and data rates may apply.

B (42:20)

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A (42:52)

I want to stick with something you said a second ago about Russia. And then we'll go to the politics of this. There has been this argument now go buy oil from Russia, which will then fuel its war against Ukraine, which has been providing the drone technology to fight the drones coming in from Iran. And then there was the report from the Washington Post last week that Russia is providing Iran with the intelligence it needs to strike US Targets. And while that is happening, we have an administration where J.D. vance was anti war and is now a champion, although he seems to be on the bench. You've got Rubio who keeps saying the quiet part out loud, which is why he's apparently going to be installed as the new premier of Cuba. And then you have Pete Hecseth, who has never really understood the job he has. Before we move to Democratic response, can you talk a bit about the politics and the lack of foreign policy expertise that is guiding decision making in Washington right now?

B (43:59)

Yeah. By the way, you mentioned Hegseth, has the SNL skit ever been kind of more accurate and necessary? I mean that is Hegseth, this kind of loud mouth, alcohol fueled X Fox weekend host cosplaying as defense secretary and great warrior, just talking in ridiculous cartoonish terms about we will rain fury from the sky and all this nonsense, acting like a complete sociopath, saying on 60 Minutes I think he said all the Iranians should worry about staying alive. All of them, the whole country are going to kill everyone. Look, it's interesting not just that Russia is supporting Iran right now and they are. It's interesting that once again when Trump administration officials are asked to condemn Russia, they refuse. Easy open goal to say, hey, Russia, back off. They refuse. We can go back and have arguments about Donald Trump and Russia and what's his relationship with Russia. I've said this consistently for 10 years. I don't know what the financial ties are. I don't know what the intelligence says. I don't know what the relationships are. I don't know if he's an asset, blah blah blah. All I know is one thing. Donald Trump viciously attacks everyone around him, friends, family, Republican Party members, former friends, public figures, celebrities, members of the public, foreign leaders. Never, ever criticizes Vladimir Putin. Why is that? I'll never got an answer to that question. But yes, they've let Russia go. They're all over the place in terms of their foreign policy. They've outsourced it to Lindsey Graham and Benjamin Netanyahu. As you say, Marco Rubio has his eye on Cuba. So does Lindsey Graham, who says Cuba is next. As he said at the weekend. It's all a game to them, right? War and peace, These very. Look at the videos they're putting out, Stacey, on the White House account. These videos with Grand Theft Auto Images, these videos of like music videos of things blowing up. Are we governed by fucking children? Like, what is going on here? It's an insult to the people who have died in those places. It's insulted the American soldiers who've died. I mean, whatever you think of people like Dick Cheney and George W. Bush, who I think should be in a cell at the Hague for war crimes, right? At least they pretended to take war and peace seriously at times. You know, if you go back to people like Eisenhower, these were people who had served in. And even as they committed American troops action, they understood the gravity of the situation. And this guy, Donald Trump and the people who surround him, the Pete Hegseths of this world, the Caroline Levitts, the Lindsey Grahams, it's a joke to them. It's a game, it's a cartoon. It's so disrespectful. It's so childish and it's so dangerous. We are governed by super incompetent people and that's why this war is going so badly, by the way, because we are governed by incompetent people. And at home, I always say it's what saved us from fascism so far. The fact that we have incompetent fascists in charge. If we had smart fascists, we'd be screwed by now. But they keep stepping over themselves and they're doing the same thing abroad.

A (46:36)

One of the reasons I love Zateo Mehdi is that you understand that there are other nations and other continents. For example, as much as we have to focus the attention in this war on what's happening in the Middle east and its implications for the US and for Europe, we know that in nearby Africa, an entire continent, several nations are facing economic strains that are due to the disruption in supply chain and the threats of spreading violence that could lead to civilian crises and expanded conflict into these zones, how do you decide where you're going to focus first? When you are setting the table for how you all are reporting, you have done an extraordinary job of making certain that we're talking about everyone and everything, and that we're not so unilaterally focused where they want our attention to be. And so would love for you to talk a little bit about your craft and what advice you give to those who are tempted to try to, if not look everywhere, then look nowhere at all.

B (47:43)

Thank you so much for that question, and thank you for recognizing what we do. I appreciate it. It's a great way you phrase it there at the end about not looking anywhere at all. That is the danger. Right? You know, the fascists, the authoritarians, they want to overwhelm us. They want us to wear us down. They want us to kind of give up and say, you know what? It's just not possible to cover this shit show. You remember what Steve Bannon said in the first term, the enemy is not the Democrats, it's the media. And the way you deal with the media is to flood the zone with shit. And that is what they've done for a decade. They've flooded the zone in and out of office. And it's hard. I'm not saying it's easy. It's not an enviable job to be a journalist in the age of Trump. But unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of journalists have just dropped the ball out of choice. We've tried to work hard to kind of push back against the shit that's flooding the zone. It's not easy. And I feel bad every day. I'm someone who used to work at Al Jazeera English. I take pride in covering global affairs, and I haven't been able to do it as much as I used to, simply because the everyday shit show here in Washington, D.C. has overwhelmed me, too. Right? Every day it's something new. It's some new controversy, some new crisis. I know it was a cliche that if Kamala wins, we can go to brunch. And people got annoyed by that line. I know some people. But there was a truth to it in the sense that whatever I would have thought of a Kamala Harris presidency, there would have been many things I disagreed with and critiqued. We would have been able to kind of breathe and be able to take a step back and think about other crises around the world. But Donald Trump eats up all of our attention. His crises eat up all of our resources. And so people stop me in the street. I have people. I was in D.C. and a bunch of Afghan women stopped me and said, you don't cover Afghanistan like you used to. And I said, I wish I could, but look around. Like, there's a limited. How many things can me and my small team cover? We try and cover Sudan, right? We've done a lot of coverage of Gaza and the genocide in Gaza. And, you know, cynical pro Israel people try and use Sudan as a kind of gotcha to say, oh, how come you don't talk about Sudan? They don't actually care about Sudan. They're just using it as a gotcha. But those of us who actually care about Sudan try and think about, well, what guests can we have on Sudan? Where can we squeeze in in the middle of 17 segments about Trump and corruption and ICE raids and Iran? Where can we squeeze in a segment on the show so we can have a Sudanese human rights activist on or a Sudanese journalist come on to talk about a genocide that isn't getting the coverage it should in the Middle East? And it's hard, right? It takes a lot of hard work. It takes a lot of attention. And it involves not being browbeaten, not being exhausted, not giving up and saying it's just not possible. You have to find a way as journalists. You know, Zateo started with four people. We're now, I think, over 20 employees. I have four reporters. Still way not enough compared to newsrooms. But look at what's happening to major newsrooms. Washington Post shedding all its international coverage just on the eve of a major war. Insane from Jeff Bezos. Well, those of us who are not Jeff Bezos and don't have Bezos resources, we're trying with the small teams we have to certain areas we've picked, certain areas we care about. We care about genocide, we care about fascism, we care about racism. So that guides our coverage. If you fall under those buckets, we will try and cover you. And that's what we've done over the last couple of years. We're about to celebrate our second birthday, and I think it's really important that we carry on doing that. We commission pieces from all over the world when we can. But again, it's not easy. As you say, the key is not to just give up and as you say, don't look anywhere, is to try and do what we can and work with other people, journalists. I'm a big supporter of all independent media. You know, I'm often promoting my old friends who I used to work with at the Incept at Dropsite. Dropsite does a lot more foreign news coverage than we do. So where I can I amplify Dropsight? It's not a competition. We're not trying to screw each other over. I think in independent journalism, we all have to support each other.

A (51:00)

The Iranian regime has so far withstood the major assault from the US From Israel, and the loss of their top leadership by replacing them, as we discussed at the top of the show, with the son of the Ayatollah. But I want to be really clear. This is a brutal, hardline, repressive theocracy with a litany of human rights abuses. And yet we know that in the authoritarian playbook, they're going to try to create an equivalency question. You cannot be against the war unless that means you are for what Iran is doing. So what do our listeners need to understand about how to navigate the intentional creation of this cognitive dissonance that really isn't so?

B (51:42)

No, it's a great point. I'm glad you raised at the end because I've got the gray hairs. For those of you watching, I'm old enough to remember the Iraq war. I marched against the Iraq war. I was 23 years old. In February 2003, I joined millions of people around the world in marching in one of the biggest protests in human history. Unfortunately, Bush and Blair didn't listen. And those of us who warned of a catastrophe were right. But at the time, what did they say? They said the people marching are supporters of Saddam Hussein. That was a claim. I'm a Shia Muslim. As I mentioned earlier, Saddam Hussein killed hundreds of thousands of Shia Muslims in Iraq. I was no fan of Saddam Hussein. I loathed Saddam Hussein. Good riddance. When he was killed, not a tear was shed by me. But that wasn't the point, right? The point was, it wasn't whether you liked Saddam or not. It was, number one, whether we have the right to go around invading countries willy nilly, taking out their leaders for whatever agendas we want. And the agenda in Iraq was clearly oil. Number two, what was the cost of that war gonna be to ordinary Iraqi people who would suffer the consequences in a way that Saddam Hussein wouldn't? And that's what came to be, sadly. And number three, what was the backl you know, intelligence warned Tony Blair that there would be more terrorist attacks if we invaded Iraq. And hey, PRESTO, Tragically, in July 2005, we had the seven. Seven terrorist attacks that killed dozens of people on the London transportation system. And right now, by the way, I should point out to your listeners, the Daily Mail, of all people, reporting that the Trump administration is suppressing intelligence from reaching law enforcement across America of an increased terror threat from this invasion of Iran. God forbid there is a terrorist attack in the US As a result of this war, thanks to Trump's and Netanyahu's war. But I think we just have to remind ourselves that this is not about. This is not a football team. We're not backing our team against another team. Do I support Trump against Khamenei? No. This is about whether you support human rights. Do you support international law? Do you support national sovereignty? Do you support a world which actually adheres to rules? Or do you support a world which is basically a jungle? The law of the jungle. And I think that's key. And the cynicism of these people who say, oh, you're pro this, pro that, look at who Donald Trump has cozied up to. Am I gonna take lessons from Donald Trump on who is pro dictator? The guy who bragged about exchanging love letters with Kim Jong Un, A man who claims that Xi Jinping is a good friend of his. A man who's welcomed MBS at the White House, A man who's welcomed President Shara, the former Al Qaeda leader in Syria, to the White House. All of these people who were once, you know, enemies or seen as brutal dictators in some shape or form. He's fine with all of them. So let's not pretend this is about whether you like this or that dictator. This is about protecting the Iranian people. No, it's not. It's the exact opposite. And I think we have to be consistent. All of us who believe in these principles, we have to be consistent. That means when a country we don't like commits human rights abuses, we call that out. But when a country we do like calls out human rights abuses, if it's our country, we call that out. In fact, especially if it's our country, because we are responsible for that. If Iran kills thousands of protesters, that's horrific. We should call it out. That's what happened earlier this year. But when we kill thousands of Iranians, in many ways, it's worse because we paid for it. It's our tax dollars, it's our representatives, it's our government, it's our moral responsibility.

A (54:39)

My last question for you. So we live in a nation governed by a Republican authoritarian regime, one that is currently waging a war without consulting American citizens. Now, we have an election in November, and that is incredibly important, but that is months away. We like to give our listeners homework. So your job is to tell them what should they do now in order to respond to what is happening around us.

B (55:11)

Big question. There's so much going on. I mean, look, the elections in November are going to be a major test for American democracy and a major test for what happens abroad too, because there's going to be a cost to this war at home. I think the key is ensuring that we have of free and fair elections. That means making sure that we are pressuring our elected representatives to do everything they can to prevent things like the SAVE act, which is trying to be passed right now, which would be a disaster for American democracy, which would suppress the vote in so many ways. I think I earned the prize. Always. It's always about democracy. If you want to get anything done, you want to prevent a war abroad, you want to get healthcare passed at home, you need to have free and fair elections, you need to have a democracy, you need to have a free press. That is the basis of everything. Everything else is noise. If you don't have a free press and you don't have free elections, everything else is irrelevant. Even the biggest issues of all, stopping a war abroad, making sure people aren't dying from lack of healthcare at home, all roads lead back to have we got our basic freedoms. That is what is under assault right now. That is what should be the top issue in every election. I know there's very cynical pollsters and strategists who say, oh, democracy is not a kitchen table issue. That's bullshit. There is no kitchen table without the democracy. And I think that is very, very important for us to educate ourselves about the threats that we face, to make sure that we are engaging in civilization, society, make sure that we're allying with other groups around us who perhaps have different goals. But we all want to live in a free society together and making sure that we're not losing our voices and we're not being browbeaten. To go back to what we discussed earlier, the authoritarian wins when we think nothing we do matters. And actually everything we do matters. And they fear our voices, they fear our actions, they fear our votes. So let's keep them afraid.

A (56:43)

Mehdi Hassan, founder of Zeteo and consistent truth teller. Thank you so much for being here on Assembly Required.

B (56:50)

Thank you so much, Stacy.

A (56:58)

Assembly Required is here to help us understand what's happening and then take action wherever we are, because every decision to resist adds up. So first, let's be curious to hear more from Mehdi Hasan and support independent media. Please subscribe to Zateo. Number two, we gotta solve problems. Call your members of Congress and urge them to oppose funding this continued war. And three, we've gotta do a lot of good. Last week I directed the audience to Doctors Without Borders and unicef, which continue to take donations to assist the impacted families in the Middle East. In addition, please make a contribution to World central kitchen@wck.org which is serving communities in Lebanon as the conflict escalates. In addition, the Palestinian Children's relief fund at pcrf-rescue.org is providing emergency medical care and other essential aid to children who continue to be impacted by the genocide in Gaza and surrounding conflicts. As you know, Assembly Required continues to grow its audience, but we need your help. We reach more people when you tell others about us, when you add us to your feed and you share your favorite episodes. So please make sure you actually subscribe on all of your favorite platforms, not just one. Boost our visibility by rating the show and leaving a comment. You can find us on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcast. And please check out my substack Assembly Notes where we dive deep and where I share share more of my thoughts on how we can understand and then fight back against this authoritarian regime. And thank you to the thousands of you who've signed up for the 10 Steps campaign at 10stepscampaign.org we offer information in English and Spanish, all designed to help you recognize what's happening, activate around solutions, and build a better America. Well, that wraps up this episode of Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams. Do good out there and I'll meet you here next week. Assembly Required is a crooked media production. Our lead show producer is Lacey Roberts and our associate producer is Farrah Safari. Kiril Palaviv is our video producer. This episode was recorded and mixed by Charlotte Landis. Our theme song is by Vasil Photopolis. Thank you to Matt de Groat, Kyle Seglin, Tyler Boozer, Ben Hethcote and Priyanka Mantha for production support. Our executive producers are Katie Long and me, Stacey Abrams.