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Beyond Persistence: Building Ecosystems Where Black Men Thrive in Higher Education
00:40:09
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This session was recorded live at the
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2026 ASU GSV Summit in San Diego.
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Welcome. My name is Dr. Jasmine Haywood. I'm a strategy director at Lumina Foundation. I'm going to introduce these gentlemen in a minute, but wanted to talk about, provide some context for this session today. Lumina foundation is a private foundation focused on higher education. And we have a 2040 goal, which is that 75% of working adults have a credential of value by 2040. And as part of that goal, we work with amazing grantees and partners, one of them being roadtrip Nation. And so we've worked with Road Trip Nation for several years now, I think almost a decade. And Road Trip Nation does work focused on telling stories, storytelling. They create documentaries on a variety of. Focused on a variety of different populations that empower people to reflect and explore things in their life in such a way that they have a better sense of where they want to go in their life and specifically different career paths. And the way they do that is by using a big neon green rv, which some of you may have seen in the back of the hotel. I don't know which way is back. I think that way. It's parked out by the outdoor stage. If you haven't seen it yet, go check it out. Essentially, they get folks into the RV and take them on a road trip and they have time to learn together, reflect together. We were chatting with Road Trip Nation more than a few years ago now and started talking about them doing a docu series focused on black males. And we, you know, that population is always going to be relevant for a variety of reasons. And so we embarked on a partnership with them alongside our colleagues at ECMC foundation to focus on this documentary. We've been working with Kofi in the back. Say hi, Kofi. And his team. And so we were very excited to see it all come to fruition. And because the gentlemen that were featured in the documentary are so amazing, we've been on somewhat of a national tour since the documentary was released. There are two episodes. You can go watch it on Road Trip Nation's website. If you have a long flight back home, I suggest you take a peek. They are about 20 or so minutes per episode. There's two episodes. Two episodes. Two episodes. And so without further ado, we are going to dive in here. So immediately to my right, we've got Mr. Tobias Brown in the middle here, we've got Enoch Ellis. And then at the end, we've got Dustin Meisel. So thank you, gentlemen for being here. I Should mention the title of the. The documentary is Black Men in Higher Education and emphasis on the word thriving. We were very particular and intentional on that word in thinking about not perpetuating a deficit narrative of black men in higher education and in thinking about how we're positioning this work. And so I actually wanna start there with the word thriving. Can each of you talk a little bit about what that word has meant to you in the context of your lives and how did it show up as you all met each other, embarked on this journey together with Road Trip Nation? Let's start at the end with you, Dustin.
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Yeah, for sure. So the word thriving, as you said, Dr. Haywood, I think it really fits. It really, to me means being able to show up and be myself fully in all my blackness and all the dopeness that I bring to spaces. I feel like a lot of times may step in space and may have to tone down certain things. And I'm like, I don't know. That kind of is what make me me. So I recently got my PhD and I show up fully as myself now. And I've been doing that for a couple years at this point, but it took some time to get there. And I think even the work that I've done with these fellas really, I think, instilled a lot of confidence in me to show up fully in myself, but also like, I think themselves seeing them show up fully in certain spaces as well. So thriving to me is just showing up being myself, as dope as I am, and all the flaws that come with me, too. I think that's all a part of the game. It makes me human.
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Justin, start. Let's stay with you just for one more minute. Can you say what your PhD is in and where you've recently moved to and what you're doing with it now?
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For sure, for sure. So I spent six long, long years in Kentucky. I stayed down, ended up finishing, getting my PhD, did my dissertation, all the things in counseling psychology. And I recently moved to the dmv. Hopefully I want to get DC more closer to dc, but in the DMV right now, Maryland, it's close enough. And, yeah, started my life out there. So it's all good.
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E
Thank you.
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D
Thank you.
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And Enoch is currently finishing up at mit. He will graduate in May. Yes. I also want to mention. I'm sure he'll mention it at some point as well. A unique aspect of Enoch's story is he's a student athlete, he runs track. And so I say that to say I'll drop tidbits throughout of each of these gentlemen. But I say that to say that oftentimes there's a narrative that black men are monolithic. Black men, black people, black women are monolithic. And these three men could not be more different. I have spent time with each, and yet they've got a close bond. Right. And so they each have very different journeys, very different passions and pursuits, and at the same time, they still have a common experience that holds them together. And so, Enoch, what does thriving. How does that show up for you?
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Yeah, most definitely. I think, for me, I love the fact that our docuseries is called Thriving Black Men in Higher Education, because I realized by being able to get closer with these gentlemen that you. You were not thriving if you were doing it alone. And I think that's something that, especially being at a pwi, being at mit, even going to a private school back in high school, kind of was instilled upon me that in order to kind of be the best, in order to thrive, you have to go on it alone. You have to be the person at the very top, and it has to be so, I guess, undisputed, what you are, who you are, and what you're capable of. But I think that's a very insular affair. And I think for me, being able to be a part of this experience with these two gentlemen and really be able to learn from them and learn from the different experiences really, really taught me that, yes, it is, like, great that we are able to do what we love and be successful, but if we are not doing that in community with each other and allowing others to kind of share in that greatness, then I think we're doing ourselves and each other a disservice.
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I kind of hate they went before me because
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they stole your thunder.
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They stole everything from. They pretty much summed up exactly what thriving means. I went to hbcu, the best hbcu, the top hbcu. Morehouse College.
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Yes.
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And a part of my experience there. When you think about the word thriving, as Enoch said, community, knowing that you have people that can come along with you and help you reach that goal and leaning back and tapping into your community. And that documentary showed us that, too. When we're going and talking to people that are in law, talking to people that are in the STEM field, talking to people that are working in psychology, talking to those people that are successful and thriving in their fields, and showing us that when you lean and tap back into your community and you lean on your brothers like I leaned on them throughout the documentary, not just talking about what it looks like going to class, what does it look like, socializing while we're at college, what does it look like talking to your peers about life issues outside of college. That is how you thrive and in those areas, being able to talk to people in your community.
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I want to stay with you for a minute, Tobias. So you mentioned the HBCU you went to. Can you talk a little bit about how you got introduced and interested to that particular HBCU HBCUs as a whole and just your story of going from high school to college.
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So I went to. I was from Albany, Georgia. And so in Albany, Georgia, there's this HBCU called Albany State University. And so Albany is just centered around the Golden Rams. And I did dual enrollment at Albany State. And I graduated with high school during high school. I graduated with my associate's degree in Business administration two weeks prior to my high school graduation. And even though I did do enrollment, I still didn't know about the college application process. And so I had three top schools. I had Clark, I had Howard as my number one Morehouse, and then Clark. But that goes to talking about understanding, thriving, to understand community. I did not know that private schools did not have out of state tuition. And I was like, well, Howard, they gave me a scholarship, but out of state tuition is going to eat that scholarship up. And I was on Morehouse's campus, I was like, well, I'm going to Morehouse. That is the top next big thing is still the big thing now. You know, I've graduated. So if you, if you a Morehouse grad, I promise I still love my house. But I was like, I'm going to Morehouse then because I'm in state and it'd be more affordable for me. And I was walking on campus and I was telling the peer this and he looked at me, he said, you know, private schools don't have out of state tuition. I said, I could have been at Harvard. But that goes back to the process again with this documentary to us going and talking about the FAFSA application, talking about the importance of having those conversations with young black men and telling them this is how the process work, this is how things work. So that when they're looking at higher education, they're looking at going to these four year institutions. They know all the in and outs of it. They're not in a situation like me thinking that I had to pay out of state tuition. And then someone on campus, another peer is telling me, no, that's not the Case private schools do not have out of state tuition.
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Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, really big emphasis on pre college advising and also dual enrollment as a strategy for students. At Lumina foundation, we have a portfolio focused on access and fund, some work focused on dual enrollment. And I loved hearing Tobias Story, especially the part about how he was just doing dual enrollment. He wasn't saying to himself, oh, I want to get exposed to an hbcu. And that was then the gateway to your journey to being at Morehouse. Enoch, I want to go back to you. So we mentioned your experience as a student athlete. You also have some other pretty impressive co curricular experiences, student leadership experiences on campus. Can you talk about some of that and why those experiences outside the classroom were important for you and how that's played a role?
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Yeah, most definitely. So what Dr. Haywood is kind of alluding to. So last year I was actually student body president, mit, which was a really great opportunity. You know, I joked that I came to MIT trying to find a reason why not to be president, and I couldn't find one. But no, it was really great because I think it kind of served two purposes. For one, when I came in, I said, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to give it my all. Not just because it's, you know, you're supposed to be representing 4,500 students, you know, they deserve your best. But also, being a black man at a predominantly white space, whatever you do is going to be, you know, judged more harshly, more strict. Everyone's going to know who you are and have an opinion, even if they've never met you. And so it's something that I took very seriously. But it's one of the best decisions that I ever made because it allowed me to understand how higher education works, allowed me to network with university administrators. I actually went to Congress when some of the craziness was happening last year with regard to endowment taxes and freedom of speech and everything. And so it really allowed me to kind of see beneath the veil in order to be like, okay, this is how this aspect of higher education works. This is how we could pull this lever to get more minorities access to a quality education. This is some of the problems that are going to be facing higher education in 5, 10, even 20 years. These are ways that I can position myself and also teach others how to position themselves in order to combat this. It was very difficult balancing that and also being student athlete. I run track. I do hurdles. I've actually been running track since I was 5. I like to say I've been running track long enough to be bad at every event, but you know, having that hat and then also having other leadership hats, you know, everybody you know, sees you. And so I think it was really important to me, and especially last year when we were doing the documentary and talking to these fellows, you know, being able to recognize that I don't have to me, being me and being successful is enough. And that yes, you're going to have all these eyes on you, but it's really important to recognize that if you have your community around you, you are enough. I think that's something that still learning, but something that throughout the process of this documentary has really opened my eyes to.
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Thank you, Dustin. Your dissertation was focused on liberation psychology. You talk a little bit in the docu series, I think it was in the first episode, about your experience being a black man in grad school in graduate studies. Can you talk about why you landed on that dissertation topic and just how you're doctoral studies has informed your work today?
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Sure, for sure. So the dissertation, one of the frameworks that was used was just surrounding liberation psychology, which is essentially challenging the systems that already exist. Like psychology has a way of doing things, but it doesn't mean it's always the most effective way to do things. I think that directly informs my experience in PhD programs. There's so many systems that exist because not because they're the best way to do it, it's because they did it years and years and years before. And you find out that the system was made in like, I don't know, like the 1900s. And you're just like, why are we still doing that today? And I'm very logic based or like reason based. If you can explain why something is in place, to me it makes sense, I can understand it. So I think in my PhD program I found a lot of times not even just PhD, I mean master's, bachelor's programs, found a lot of times systems just don't make sense and no one can explain why it is, it just is the way it is. I think one thing that's really that I've learned is like the importance of being able to advocate for yourself. And when you don't have the louder voice, being able to like rally on like these guys mentioned a little bit earlier, the community or the people who do have the voice to be able to advocate for you in that. Because a lot of times people will ignore you. But the reality is in a lot of these things we'll find there's Always a loophole. There's always a way to get these things to happen. But a lot of times you don't have the advocacy piece or someone rallying behind you. It's hard to do that. So I think that framework right there kind of informs the way I exist in the world. My dissertation and just my practice or future practice in general, want to be able to make a way and recreate systems because a lot of times it is old and outdated and time for some new stuff. It won't hurt anything. It make our lives easier.
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Absolutely. So I want to transition to talking about the actual filming of the documentary before that. I also want to share that this was one of the the most competitive Road Trip Nation docu series in terms of how many applicants they received from black males nationwide to be featured on the docuseries. Shout out to Kofi and his team for going through all of them and vetting all of them. And so can you share and any one of you can jump in here. What was it like when you first ventured met each other? What did you. What were you thinking? What stood out to you? And at this point, I think it was two years ago now, almost two years. We're coming up on two years when the filming began. Keep in mind, they were all, you know, life goes on. So they were. Tobias was finishing up at. At Morehouse. Destin was finishing his PhD, thinking about what he was going to do next. And Enoch was student body president. You know, just had a few things on his plate. So talk about what that was like.
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Prior to us meeting in person, we were trying to figure out how tall everyone is. So we were trying to see who was going to be the tallest and we see who won that one. But it was, I want to say the production director and the producer. I tell them they were just phenomenal in choosing the three of us because from the first interaction when we came to California for orientation and everything, immediately we connected. And I think you see that in the film. It was so organic for us to come together in front of the screen, have those conversations. Like the first day we had those uncomfortable conversations, the conversation that when you first meet somebody, you're not going to. I'm not going to tell you how I truly feel about something. You know, I got to get to know you first. But the first day we were able to have those conversations with one another and we were able to really divulge deeply in the conversations with the experts we were talking to and bouncing off of each other when we were having, when we were Having those interviews. So I tell people all the time. I built a brotherhood. We still have a group chat to this day. We still communicate. Hopefully we get an invitation to Enoch's graduation and we can be able to support him there. But it was. The filming process was great. I hated ended. It was too short for me because when I was filming with them, I learned a lot. I took a lot back to Morehouse. I took a lot back with me in my personal life. Being able to be around such accomplished gentlemen and hearing them talk about some of the things they do, and then hearing how Enoch balance is his thing, hearing how he going through his PhD and styling, the way I was trying to steal some of his styling tips, you know, just being able to learn about life and education with him was probably one of the greatest experience I have. When I got the call. You want me to talk about when I got the call that I was selected? Okay, so when I. When I got the call that I was selected, we did an interview. And Ebony, who was the production director on the film, she said, immediately, when I saw your smile, I was like, yeah, we have to choose them. So I try to smile every time. Maybe someone else will choose me for something if I just smile. So I try to smile anytime I go. But the second was supposed to be a semi interview round to see if we moved on to the third round. And she said, well, how would you react if you all. If you were chosen today? I said, I jump up and down out of my seats. And she said, well, we want to offer you a special spot on the road trip. And it was over 100 people that applied to the documentary, and the three of us were chosen. So I'm very grateful for that opportunity and the opportunity to continue to travel around the country and spotlight the documentary.
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I want to piggyback on that because it's like, as much as we've learned from the experts, and you see that in the documentary, talking to them, kind of getting to see their wisdom, we learned, I'd say, as much, if not more, just from each other. You know, you won't see it on camera, but, you know, Dustin was really like, you know, the psychologist in him was like, okay, you know, why you make this choice? You know, you're president, okay, you have this dilemma. You know, why do this or that, right?
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Like, how.
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Where's that kind of motivated from? And the same thing with Tobias. And so I really think, you know, it was really cool. And this is what I, like, love about being black is that, like, we did not know each other before. We were, like, knew nothing about each other. And the first time we met, probably the first five minutes, it was just like we had known each other for 20 years.
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Right.
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I think that really comes through in the docu series. And so I couldn't be more happy with when I got the call, when I first got the email, I actually thought it was a scam because I was like, you know, people don't make documentaries about this. And then, you know, when I really recognized that it wasn't a scam, I was like, okay, this is going to be some doom and gloom story about how there's not enough black people in higher education and being able to talk to their production director and talked to Kofi and was like, no, no, like, that's not what we're doing at all. I was like, okay, this is something I can get behind. And so, yeah, it was really, really quite amazing.
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C
And I do want to, if you haven't picked it up already, another unique aspect of this experience. You know, Ebony and the crew was pretty much all black as well. And so it was a unique and special experience for. I mean, I had fomo. I was like, well, can I just come watch? Can I just be behind the scenes? And so it was really amazing just how all of that came together. Dustin, what was it like for you meeting these two jokesters?
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That's the perfect way to put them. Jokesters. So I think in black culture, like, making jokes about each other, it's our love language. It's something that we do. We usually like to warm up into it. I think with them, like, first day, they was already on me. Now I'm the old one. I just don't get it. I think when I first met Tobiah, he was 20. And you, like, maybe 19.
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20.
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I don't know. You also pretty young, too. But they let me know very early on that I was the old guy in the group. But I think the cool thing about that is learning is bidirectional. So I learned a lot from them. So it honors me that y' all learned from me. But I also learned a lot from you all, and I continuously learn from y' all to this day. So shouts out to y' all for that.
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Do you see what I mean? I'm going to ask two more questions and then we're going to pivot and allow you all to engage with them as well and ask some questions. So, you know, again, diverse stories, common thread here. We've got one of you went to an HBCU Private school, state school, three completely different institutional contexts that have shaped their journeys. Can each one of you talk a little bit briefly about in what ways your undergrad institution created spaces for you to be seen and heard and ultimately attain your degree? Let's start with you, Destiny, for sure.
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So I went to the University of Georgia, UGA for undergrad Go Dawgs. And I think uga, I think, well, at least when I was enrolled, it had a really, well, like oiled black alumni system and just recruitment system and retention system for black men and black students. So there was an organization called Georgia Days where they allow black students come spend a weekend on campus, go out with the college kids.
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It was.
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It blew my mind. I was committed the moment I went to it because it was such a good time. But when we got there, also, they did a lot of work in making sure we were able to figure out how to navigate this college space because it was a really new and unfamiliar space. I think the sad thing is now when I check up on certain programs, just because of the governmental changes, those things no longer exist. So when thinking about black men who are thriving in education, how to get us continue to stay in education, you have to continue programs. That got me to go to places like that because I'm from College park, going to uga, College Park, Georgia, going to UGA was completely a culture shock, something I've never seen before. If I did not have the support system, I would not have thrived in the ways that I have. So I think it's really important to emphasize those things that not only got me to go to uga, but also helped me stay there. And it's just the alumni system and all the student orgs that really made sure we nurtured one another. That community piece was pretty heavy there too.
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It's actually interesting. So one of the deciding factors as to why I chose to go to mit. So I'm a chemical engineer and applied math, double major, econ minor. Kind of add that on at the end.
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No big deal. Might work.
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Yeah. I was researching MIT's chemical engineering program, and I saw that the head of our chemical engineering program was a black woman, Crystal Prather. Or I guess at that time would have been Paula Hammond as Crystal Prather. And so my freshman, I guess, summer going, freshman year, going to mit, I got the opportunity to talk to her. We at lunch, it was a program they were putting on, meet people, whatever, whatever. And she said, are you happy with your decision to come to mit? And I looked at her and I said, I'm learning to be happy. And she said, okay, we'll check in in a year. And so every year since then we've gotten lunch and every year she's asked me this. And by last year when she asked me this, I said, you know what, this was the right choice for me. I think the wonderful thing about MIT is it's very competence based. And so no matter who you are, what you look like, where you come from, right? As long as you can walk the walk and talk the talk, you know, it doesn't matter. Everybody treats you equally. And so what that means is in spaces in which black people have historically been kind of excluded, right? Not the case when I was president, you know, as long as you were willing to do the work, you could, you know, do anything.
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Right?
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And so it was really great being able to see that. But then that also kind of taught me that, you know, there's still more work to be done at mit. I think our black population is somewhere around, I want to say, 6 or 7%, maybe a little bit less. That's actually on the higher end compared to a lot of other top, top institutions. And so what it's made me realize is that we're a very tight knit community at mit. We have a very strong black alumni culture. I've had the privilege of actually, even during the documentary, got to talk to some black alumni. We're very close and we all help each other out. But what it made me realize is that there's still more work to be done and we need to make sure that black people recognize that they too can thrive in places like this. When I was looking at MIT, before I made my decision, I actually didn't even consider going to MIT because I just thought it wasn't a place for people like me, which is crazy. I mean, when I went there, we were doing integration B at 2am in the morning and I was like, yeah, this is probably a place for me. But prior to that I was like, I just don't see it. And so I really do think,
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D
I
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really do think it's important for us to kind of like go back, think about the pre K, the pipeline rather and make sure that people recognize that the decision to go to college, I think it starts in kindergarten. And my mom would, she would tell you we were in kindergarten, she said, you're going to college, don't care where, but you're going to college. And so I think it's really important that we think about that and we create spaces and opportunities for that to kind of like, be the norm.
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A
My undergrad institution was hbcu. I knew going to college first, being from Albany, Georgia, and being around Albany State University, I knew I wanted to go to HBCU for undergrad. I had no desire to be a minority. I had no desire to be first in completing something for my undergraduate experience, my undergraduate experience. I wanted to be nurtured. And I knew an HBCU would provide that safe haven for me. And so going to Morehouse College, being the institution that Morehouse is, is an all black male liberal arts college. And I was exactly that. I was nurtured at that school with the professors being able to be like. One of my professors was the federal immigration judge. Majority of the Fullerton County Superior Court. The males that are on the court are majority Morehouse graduates. And so being in that area, being around other institutions that are close. So Morehouse is a part of what we call the Atlanta University Center Consortium. So you have Spelman College, you have Clark Atlanta, Morris Brown. All of these different institutions where you see nothing but black excellence. It almost drives you, pushes you. Well, it does. It doesn't. It drives you and pushes you to be in a space where you see so many successful black people. I came from rural Georgia. Well, I seen I was. I grew up around a lot of black people, but I didn't grow up around a lot of successful black people. The norm was if you were a black man, you would probably go through the judicial system. You didn't see a lot of black men working in the judicial system to a lot of them going through it. And so when I went to Morehouse College and I went to college, I seen a lot of black men actually sit on, you know, sit as judges and make those decisions to the judicial system. I've seen a lot of black women present new research in medical science. I'm like, wow, this is beautiful. Right? And this experience puts me out. When I'm going out and I'm talking at panels or I'm going to interact with other people. The experience that I learned at Morehouse College, seeing a lot of the other successful black people, gave me the strength and motivation I need to be able to send into a room where if I'm the only black man in there. I know Dr. Maya Angelou says this, she said, you come as one, but you stand as 10,000. Because I've seen so many of people that look like me that can be successful and that are successful. So if I am now the only black man in the room, I know I'm still coming with 10,000 other black men with me that have paved the way for me to be able to be in that room.
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C
Did someone get that quote written down? I am actually going to table my last question because I really want you all to have the opportunity to jump in and ask questions. We've got about 10 minutes left. And I think also we do have some of the conferences, HBCU students, scholars in the room, maybe, so welcome questions from them. We've got a mic in the back, so who'd like to go first?
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E
Okay, just make sure it's on. First off, it's not really a question. I just want to tell you how incredible you guys are. And I think I speak for the room. One thing you said, I'm gonna kind of go down the road, if you don't mind. It's just coming. I won't take too long. What you talked about earlier, being dope and showing up as your full self. So many of us deal with imposter syndro no matter what space we go into. Being from college park, being from wherever, it's just part of it. And so I'm glad to hear you speak on that. And I want you to know, with the doctorate or not, you dope, you know what I mean? And I know that doctorate puts us in different spaces and all of that. Listen, you are. I'm a former student athlete. I play basketball. And you're the standard, because my dissertation was on black male student athletes. Transition to a life after college. And I will tell you, when I say you're the standard of what we should be while we're in college, because your life is going to be amazing. It already is. But so many of us deal with athletic identity. And so when that ball for me stopped bouncing, we go through so much. And because you were the president, because you are doing this type of work and you're around these type of people, you won't go through half of what we go through because you're making the right decisions. You're just so funny, man. And you're. And you have a great smile, and you're incredible. Keep that spirit. We need more people, like all three of you, but you have a sunshine, a light about you that I just want to encourage you to keep because the world will try to take that away from you. Don't let them do it. That's all. Yeah, my bad. Gotcha.
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G
Okay.
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D
I will not be long winded, I promise.
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G
She had to remind me first. Just thank you. Thank you for showing up. I am My doctorate is in black men thriving in the K12 space. Co founder of Statesman College Preparatory Academy for boys in Washington D.C. it is a space specifically designed for boys of color and founder of the national association of Black Male Educators. And what I found out in my research is that for black men in the K12 space, we really need community and radical candor. The truth in love. Somebody that's gonna hold us to account, hold us to a high standard, tell us the truth along the way and love us, love the hell out of us. Because sometimes real hell is in us and it needs to be loved out. And so my question to you all, like, where do you find your.
- [34:46]
A
I found my community in my friendships. I have. I tell people my friends are my chosen family and they truly are. I celebrate my holidays with them and my friends keep it 100 with me like they are. If they tell me to buy. What are you. That's not right, you know, if I am wrong in a situation, they correct me. Like you said, sometimes they love the hell out of me. Sometimes, you know, when I'm in a situation where I'm just being too radical, they love me and calm me down. I think community in my friendships and also in my mom and my parents. That's why I find community. Sometimes when I'm very overwhelmed or I'm confused at which route to take, I called my mom and she was telling me, she said, well, I don't know a lot of 21 year olds that are doing what you're doing, so it's okay to take a deep breather and calm down. So friendship and my parents, those are my community,
- [35:37]
D
I think too, from my experience. So one thing I really love to do is travel. I think that based off of what I see, maybe on news or the ways in which I see in the world, and sometimes I want to advocate. I don't always think the world is a good place, but through my travels I've been blessed enough to find community like across the world. And I think overall I found that people are good. I think there might be a select few that just ruined a couple things, you know what I mean? But I think the reality is, of course we have friends that are here, but we also have people around the world who are willing to connect and want to stay connected and share their story and also willing to hear your story as well. So I think of course that local community is here, but I mean, the world at large is a place for us to explore and find community because people are super interested in us. And I Think we also have the same interest in them.
- [36:26]
B
Yeah, I'd actually say I think I find my community and my mentors, you know, being in this sort of environment really taught me the importance of voraciously seeking mentors. You know, mentors for econ, mentors for athletics, mentors for politics, even. And that's something that really is important to me because they have such a unique perspective that they're able to impart on you, and they would keep you accountable and keep you honest. You know, my mentors come from all different walks of life. You know, most of them are much, much older than I am. Dustin's getting up there, but, yeah, that's something. And keeping in contact. I mean, I still keep in contact with my middle school teachers because they were there for me and an integral part of my life. And so it's important for me to kind of say, this is where we are because of you. And in a lot of ways, they know me better in certain ways than I know myself. And so it's really important for me to maintain those relationships.
- [37:22]
F
I think I have the last question. I'm not sure. Co founder of Statesman College Preparatory Academy for Boys. And also we do a very specific leadership development program for men. Something you said kind of always jumps out at me, so don't kill me for being older. I am watching a lot of young men who we train and develop for leadership to go into extremely high roles in public education who are struggling with this notion of being their most authentic self. Can you talk about the balance there? Because what we have found is that when folks are committed to this notion of being just authentic, they get fired. And so we want black men, in particular, they get fired. And so we are always in the space of saying, what do you mean when you say authentic? What does that mean? And is there a difference between authentic and professional? Sometimes we are seeing that people are saying to us in particular, black men in particular, go be your most authentic self. And that means go as close to ratchet as possible. And instead of saying, there's a reality that my white contemporaries have to be a certain way at work, my female contemporaries have to be a certain way at work. There's a way to be at work. And so can you talk about the balance where that. Where that is concerned?
- [38:33]
D
For sure, for sure. And I think for me, it's always going to be a process of figuring that out, depending on what space I'm navigating. But to me, my authentic self. I can give you an example. Throughout my graduate school, I never had an office to do therapy in. So I go and do therapy in somebody else office. This year I finally got my own office and like, what my authentic self look like. I got art everywhere, Black art. It's super dope. Like, you go in there, you be like, yeah, he black. We can tell just by instantly walking in there. Like, that's the way of showing up authentically. And I think even, like, how to show up authentically. I think when we think about this idea of code switching, I think that there's a formal black. When I speak to my grandma, I speak in a way that is very formal, with respect. So there's that. But it's still very authentically me. I think professionally I like to show up as a professional black. Still authentically me. I'm not code switching to be something I'm not. So I still have a little slang when I speak, but you know that I'm still speaking very articulate and still communicating when I need to and being able to connect with my colleagues in that way. So I think for me, it's a thin line maybe between the two. But I do think there's a way to show up authentically that you're not completely neglecting yourself and your identities. I took up a lot of space there, but I do want to pass it on to you all at their time.
- [39:41]
C
Thank you. Thank you. We will be hanging out afterwards, so please do and get. Now do you see why I took them on a national tour for a year? There's a QR code. Check out the documentary. Thank you for being here and safe travels home, everyone.