In this episode we discuss the role of palm oil politics and other agricultural practices, politics, and diplomacy on transboundary haze in Southeast Asia.

Our guest Dr Helena Varkkey is an Associate Professor of Environmental Politics at the Department of International and Strategic Studies, Universiti Malaya. Her areas of expertise include transboundary haze governance in Southeast Asia and global palm oil politics. She has almost two decades of experience in qualitative research,conducting fieldwork, interviews, and focus groups among various government and non-government stakeholders, and has built up extensive research networks in countries across ASEAN. She has published, edited and produced several books and reports for international agencies.

Our interviewer Maggie Chel Gee Ooi is a research fellow from the Institute of Climate Change from the National University of Malaysia, also known as UKM. Her field of expertise includes weather prediction and air quality modelling using numerical methods. She has worked closely with the government bodies to fill in the weather and air quality science gaps in tropical Malaysia. She has actively published peer-reviewed papers and featured in magazines and newspapers.

Episode notes and references:

Music by: Ritesh Prasanna

Audio editing and transcripts by: Paras Singh and Raag Sethi

Podcast website: https://atmospherictales.com

Transcript:

HV: Helena Varkkey (Guest)

MCGO: Maggie Chel Gee Ooi (Interviewer)

SG: Shahzad Gani (Host)

SG: I’m your host, Shahzad Gani, and welcome to another episode of Atmospheric Tales. Our guest today is an Associate Professor of Environmental Politics at the Department of International and Strategic Studies, Universiti Malaya. Her areas of expertise include transboundary haze governance in Southeast Asia and global palm oil politics. She has almost two decades of experience in qualitative research, conducting fieldwork, interviews, and focus groups among various government and non-government stakeholders, and has built up extensive research networks in countries across ASEAN. She has published, edited and produced several books and reports for international agencies. I’m excited to have our guest, Dr Helena Varkkey. Our interviewer today is Maggie Chel Gee Ooi; she is a research fellow from the Institute of Climate Change from the National University of Malaysia, also known as UKM. Her field of expertise includes weather prediction and air quality modelling using numerical methods. She has worked closely with government bodies to fill in the weather and air quality science gaps in tropical Malaysia. She has actively published peer-reviewed papers and featured in magazines and newspapers. Welcome to the show, Helena and Maggie!

MCGO: Thank you, Shahzad, and I would like to welcome Dr Helena. Transboundary haze has been a recurring problem in Southeast Asia especially during the months of August to October, when the region is relatively dry. In the case of strong hot and dry weather anomalies—El-Nino Southern Oscillation (ENSO)—the burning becomes more intense and sustains much longer, emitting a large amount of haze. For instance, according to MetMalaysia, in mid-June, the probability of ENSO conditions to strengthen by the end of the year is over 90%. Singapore Institute of International Affairs has also issued their first-ever red alert for transboundary haze in 2023, on 20 June, which means this year, there’s a high possibility that it will be a burning year for South Asia. And, quoting from them, “heatwaves this year will be a stress test for cooperation between governments and the private sector”. In a past episode, we had a discussion with Professor Puji Lestari about transboundary haze in Southeast Asia, addressing especially the role of peat fires as an important source of regional air pollution. We understand transboundary haze is a complex and multi-faceted issue as well as it is not new; this burning problem has been around for quite some time, since the 1990s. What are the main challenges of combating this transboundary haze, as we understand the countries affected by the haze are not the main contributors of the haze?

HV: Yes, so definitely, there’s a lot more than just the physical or the biological problem of haze. One reason why we still have transboundary haze in this region—it started to become an issue about 1980s and we’re still facing it today—is because of that transboundary factor that you’ve highlighted. So the fact that countries like Indonesia, which is the main source of the haze, of course, Indonesians are the ones who suffer the most because those who are closest to the fires will be the one who are suffering the most, in terms of health and other effects. But the issue is then when the haze crosses over borders, so it reaches usually countries like Singapore and Malaysia in the region, and sometimes even Brunei and beyond Thailand. And this is where it gets a bit complicated, because if we look at the drivers of haze, which I believe Professor Puji would have touched on, has a lot to do with land use change in Indonesia, and to a certain extent in Malaysia as well. And if you look at Indonesia, a lot of this land use change is linked to sectors like palm oil, and pulp and paper; and when we look even more closely, the companies which are involved in this are not only Indonesian companies, they are international companies, international investors, and often from places like Malaysia or Singapore. So it becomes a very sensitive diplomatic issue, where the source of haze is coming from one country, but the actual drivers are multi-dimensional, multi-sectoral, as well as multinational as well. So, what we always see when there’s haze, is first of all, that will be the sort of question of whose fault is it; it becomes sort of a finger pointing issue, when countries complain about the haze or when countries say that, you know, something should be done. Indonesia, for example, will find it sometimes a bit, you know, being made a victim, when countries like Malaysia or Singapore say that, you know Indonesia, why don’t you do something about the haze? And this is when it starts like, oh, why are you getting angry at us, you know, because it’s your companies which are also involved on the ground in Indonesia. So, this makes it a very difficult diplomatic situation to resolve before you can actually reach the stage where you’re actually doing something about the haze, the stage where assistance is offered, the stage where capacity improvements are done, co-operation on a regional level. So, the very first stage of actually talking about the problem is already a very sensitive diplomatic issue; so I think this has been part of it. Every, every year, when we have haze, these diplomatic sensitivities come to the fore, and this very much complicates the actual action and mitigation activities, which are surrounding haze. And the other thing that’s also related to this, the fact that haze is multinational in that sense, where sometimes you would have companies which are headquartered in Singapore or in Malaysia, identify, as you know, having a hand in on the ground, the on the ground situation, it becomes a question of who is accountable for monitoring, and who is accountable for enforcing. Perhaps headquarters which are in a country far away, it is very difficult for them to know what’s going on, on the ground, or very difficult for them to actually have a good handle on what’s going on. Of course, they are responsible for their subsidiaries, but how does that work in actuality; this is something that is not so easy. And when you have Indonesian authorities, for example, to what extent are they able to enforce, you know, regulations on foreign companies? Of course, it may be straightforward, but not always. So all these kind of challenges do come up when we face such a trans-boundary issue. So, I think I’ll pause there for now.

MCGO: Yeah. Then, from your sharing, transboundary haze in its nature, it is a bit tricky, because it’s a regional issue. What do you think such regional cooperative entities such as like, ASEAN, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, can help to mitigate this condition, Dr Helena?

HV: Yeah, so ASEAN has played a very big role, actually, o...