Australian True Crime – ATC Discusses: The Investigation of Lucy Letby

Episode Date: February 20, 2026
Hosts: Meshel Laurie (A), Matthew Tankard (B)
Main Topic: The conviction and controversy surrounding Lucy Letby, a British nurse found guilty of murdering and harming infants in her care.

Episode Overview

This discussion episode delves into the complex and chilling case of Lucy Letby. Hosts Meshel Laurie and executive producer Matthew Tankard revisit the case in light of a new Netflix documentary and a wave of renewed public and media debate. They question the evidence, discuss expert opinions, and examine the wider context of public opinion, hospital accountability, and media portrayals. The tone is conversational, reflective, and sometimes emotional, as the hosts weigh their own evolving perspectives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Reactions and Influence of the Documentary

• Meshel was initially certain of Letby’s guilt, but recent documentaries and commentary have introduced new doubts for many.
  • “I never had any doubt of Letby's guilt to begin with. And then after watching the documentary, I was less doubtful. But I'm reading so much commentary online, I just thought, did I miss something?” — Meshel [00:22]
• Matthew was always less convinced, showing a spectrum of belief even between the hosts.
  • “You're less doubtful than I ever have been.” — Matthew [00:51]

2. Circumstantial Evidence: Strengths and Weaknesses

• The case largely consists of circumstantial evidence, which becomes robust when multiple threads combine.
  • “Think of them as a piece of string. Each…is a piece of string. If you wind enough of them together, you get a piece of rope. And that is strong.” — Meshel [03:19]
• Concerns: Circumstantial evidence can be manipulated through storytelling and may be less persuasive to those expecting direct proof.

3. Patterns in the Evidence

• Unusual cluster: All incidents of baby “crashes” occurred on Letby's shifts, first on night then day shifts, raising statistical flags.
  • “She was the only person on shift for all of them.” — Meshel [04:41]
• Counterpoint: Letby took more courses and was highly qualified, so her presence with vulnerable babies was not unusual.

4. The Insulin “Smoking Gun”

• Crucial piece of evidence: A baby found with synthetic insulin administers, with Letby having access to the setup and insulin supply.
  • “The insulin, there's no explanation for that to be found in that baby's body…She was the person who had set up the drip bag.” — Meshel [05:53]
• However, expert review found that test results could be within normal range for preemies, undermining claims of foreign insulin.
  • “Baby 6's insulin level and IC ratios do not prove that exogenous insulin was used and are, in fact, within the normal range for preterm infants.” — Expert panel via Matthew [07:42]

5. Conflicting Expert Testimony

• Dr. Shu Li, whose textbook was cited by the prosecution, later contested the prosecution's interpretation of his work.
  • Dr. Li and an international expert panel concluded all deaths could be explained naturally.
• This echoes the wrongful conviction of Australian mother Kathleen Folbigg, later exonerated by fresh scientific review. Hosts caution against overreliance on contested expert input.
  • “You can get experts to say the opposite about the same thing.” — Meshel [08:19]

6. Behavioral Evidence and Letby’s Actions

• Letby inserted herself into post-death processes, searched for grieving parents on Facebook, and kept detailed diaries.
  • “She searched the parents of one of the babies on Facebook in the days afterwards. Is that creepy or is that nosy?” — Meshel [12:36]
• Diary entries with “I did it, I'm evil” caused suspicion, but hosts and experts note diaries are ambiguous and can express guilt unrelated to crime.
  • “I'm always a bit sus when people pull from diaries.” — Matthew [13:11]

7. Physical Evidence: The “Keep This” Box

• Letby took home confidential hospital notes and stored them in a box marked “keep”, claiming she didn’t know how to dispose of them (despite owning a shredder).
  • “I'll be buggered if they didn't find a shredder in her bedroom.” — Meshel [15:04]

8. Emotional and Familial Dimensions

• Letby’s parents remain convinced of her innocence, believe she’s a scapegoat, and are vocal in their anger at authorities and documentary makers.
  • “It's much easier to say, this is a miscarriage of justice, it's ridiculous, than to ever say to yourself and to your partner, our daughter killed babies.” — Meshel [17:00]

9. The Bullying and Hospital Culture Narrative

• Defense claims Letby was bullied, hospital was understaffed, and management was inept. Hosts question the relevance of these defenses.
  • “They're red herrings. They're like, you know, the hospital is bullying her by making it look like she killed all the babies.” — Meshel [18:58]
• Noted that three ex-bosses of the hospital have since been arrested for gross negligence manslaughter.
  • [27:06]

10. Documentary Techniques: AI Face Blurring

• Discussion on using AI to mask faces in the documentary instead of blurring or silhouetting.
  • “It was an easier experience than when someone's in silhouette… I think it worked pretty well” — Matthew [21:07]
  • Emotional disconnect, but some found it more empathetic than traditional methods.

11. The Personal Toll and Emotional Responses

• Hosts share feelings of anger and sorrow; stress the importance of remembering victims as real people, not just case numbers.
  • “Calling them baby A, baby B, baby C in court…felt so inappropriate… like the way she must have thought about these babies.” — Meshel [24:07]
• Reflection on the process of empathy for both victims’ and offender’s families.

12. Where the Case Stands Now

• More charges against Letby declined by the Crown Prosecution Service; current convictions under review by the UK Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC).
  • “It's really tough to get an appeal compared to Australia, compared to other countries.” — Matthew [28:09]
• Public scrutiny and documentary pressure have led the CCRC to publicly detail their investigative timeline.

13. Media, Social Media, and Public Perception

• The impact of media coverage and social media on public opinion and even judicial review is discussed.
  • “Huge social media zeitgeists…go back and listen to the trial…If you still have doubts at the end of that, tweet it. But until you've put in the work, Seriously, I don't want to hear it.” — Meshel [29:20]

Notable Quotes

• On circumstantial evidence:
  “If you wind enough [circumstantial evidence] together, you get a piece of rope. And that is strong.” — Meshel [03:19]

• On the “smoking gun”:
  “With the synthetic insulin...someone did that.” — Matthew [07:17]
  “And that must have been malicious.” — Meshel [07:18]

• On expert testimony and the risk of mistakes:
  “You can get experts to say the opposite about the same thing.” — Meshel [08:19]

• On diaries as evidence:
  “I'm always a bit sus when people pull from diaries.” — Matthew [13:11]

• On emotional reaction and remembering the victims:
  “Calling them baby A, baby B, baby C in court…felt so inappropriate… like the way she must have thought about these babies.” — Meshel [24:07]

• On social media and public perception:
  “Huge social media zeitgeists…go back and listen to the trial…put in the work… Seriously, I don't want to hear it.” — Meshel [29:20]

Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | Highlight | |-----------|----------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------| | 00:22 | Opening Opinions | Meshel’s initial certainty, new doubts emerge | | 03:19 | Circumstantial evidence | The “rope” analogy for cumulative evidence | | 05:53 | Insulin evidence | The “smoking gun” explanation | | 07:42 | Dr. Shu Li & expert panel | Countering malicious intent claims | | 12:36 | Behavioral evidence | Letby’s Facebook searches, diary entries | | 15:04 | Physical evidence | "Keep" box and retained hospital notes | | 17:00 | Parental reactions | Refusal to accept guilt, emotional processing | | 18:58 | Rebutting hospital-bullying view | Evidence versus red herrings | | 27:06 | Hospital accountability | Arrests of former hospital executives | | 28:09 | Legal process | Appeal difficulties and CCRC review | | 29:20 | Media influence | Media/social media’s role in shaping opinions | | 24:07 | Remembering victims | Emotional response to depersonalization |

Memorable Moments

• Meshel’s visceral reaction to the notion of baby deaths and the importance of seeing the victims as more than letters or case numbers [24:07].
• Matthew’s skepticism toward using diaries in criminal trials [13:11].
• Deep dive into the effectiveness (and controversy) of using AI to obscure faces in documentaries, and its unexpected emotional impact [21:07–22:34].

Summary Takeaway

The episode offers a passionate, deeply informed but nuanced meditation on one of the most notorious and contested criminal cases in recent memory. The hosts balance reasoned skepticism with personal ethics and emotion, ultimately urging listeners to grapple with the full, complicated scope of the evidence—and resist easy answers shaped by media narratives or online debate.