I Was Sexually Assaulted By A Stranger When I Was 7 *Re-Issue*

Summary

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Australian True Crime Podcast Summary

Episode Title: I Was Sexually Assaulted By A Stranger When I Was 7 Re-Issue

Host: Meshel Laurie
Guest: Alesha (Pseudonym)
Original Air Date: March 5, 2026
Episode Focus:
Alesha bravely recounts her abduction and assault as a 7-year-old in suburban Melbourne in 1989, her family's immediate and long-term responses, the police investigation that went cold for 26 years, and the eventual pursuit and conviction of her attacker due to advances in DNA evidence and her own determination.

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Main Theme

This episode explores the survivor’s journey from traumatic childhood assault to empowerment through the justice process, highlighting the silence, shame, and systemic failures surrounding child sexual abuse, as well as the power and importance of speaking out—both for personal healing and societal change.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Assault and Immediate Aftermath

• Setting: 1989, suburban Melbourne—considered "safe" at the time.
• Incident:
  • Alesha, age 7, was approached by a man after school under the pretense of asking questions about her brother’s bike (05:59).
  • He claimed to be from the council and persuaded her to follow him.
  • Despite an instinctive discomfort, Alesha complied due to ingrained respect for adults, conflicting with “stranger danger” messaging.
  • She was led into a secluded pine plantation near a haunted house and sexually assaulted (09:40).
  • Memorable quote:

    “...I have visions and I have flashbacks... but then there’s a lot of... memories that... wasn’t until I read the statement that I actually realized how sick and disgusting he was.” —Alesha (10:55)

• Disclosure: Alesha ran home immediately, screaming; the house was soon full of police and neighborhood watch (16:03).
• Family Response:
  • Her mother and sister responded with panic, urgency, and confusion (17:22).
  • The police conducted forensic examinations and took her statement.

2. Impact on Childhood and Family

• Community Reaction:
  • Only one neighbor brought food; most people turned away, avoiding the family or offering little comfort (20:47).
  • Alesha describes loss of innocence—she could not sleep without the lights on and told her mother, “gidmidi doesn’t live here anymore” (22:18).
• Coping and Disassociation:
  • As an adult, Alesha expresses a strong sense of disassociation, viewing her younger self almost as a different person (09:40 & 13:00).
  • Quote:

    "I feel so sorry for that little girl because I know what she’s been through. Even though she actually is me.” (13:10)

3. Growing Up With Trauma

• Mental Health Struggles:
  • No substantial counseling as a child; diagnosed with depression at 18 (25:14).
  • Hospitalized for severe depression and suicidal ideation in early twenties; medication managed by a crisis assessment team (33:14).
• Adolescent & Adult Sexuality:
  • Initially, sexual activity was disconnected from fear; she recalls being almost reckless, “The worst thing has happened to me already. What else can you do?” (25:49).
  • Underwent a "promiscuous phase" as described for some sexual assault survivors (26:20).

4. The Cold Case and Pursuit of Justice

• Family and Police:
  • The case went cold for 26 years. Neither Alesha nor her family were regularly contacted by police (27:13, 28:44).
  • Her parents did not pursue the case; her father struggled with alcoholism and illness.
• Catalyst for Reopening the Case:
  • Inspired by another survivor pursuing justice, Alesha contacted police in 2014 to request a review (01:08).
  • Initial attempts were discouraging—records were hard to locate, and initial responses from police were lackluster (29:45–33:10).
  • Found old newspaper articles in the state library, which helped validate and revive her case (30:23).

5. The Investigation: Advances, Breakthrough, and Court

• Modern Forensics:
  • Cold Case Unit located and tested old forensic evidence; initial results were negative, causing Alesha to lose hope again (33:10).
  • In 2015, new DNA evidence was found, leading to identification of the perpetrator, Sterling Bauer, who lived in the adjacent street at the time (40:00–41:08).
  • Key evidence included semen left on her clothing—“I’m so glad he did [leave DNA]. Because that’s what caught him.” (23:44)
• Legal Process:
  • The suspect was traced to Queensland, arrested, and extradited (44:09).
  • He was already on parole for another sexual assault; never applied for bail (44:55).
  • Bauer’s defense attempted to challenge the DNA evidence’s integrity (41:10).
  • Alesha’s childhood sketch proved to be “almost 100%” accurate (41:24).
  • Ultimately, he pleaded guilty to rape (52:10).
• Sentencing:
  • Sentenced to six years (minimum four) and listed as a sex offender for 15 years.
  • Frustration over lenient sentences and the system, especially for crimes against children (47:01, 58:46).
  • “I want him to walk out of jail and be thinking that every person he walks past in the street knows what he does, what he did.” (40:13).

6. Life After Justice

• No True Closure:
  • Despite the conviction and “closure,” the psychological impact is lifelong (59:08).
  • Well-meaning friends and relatives minimize the trauma:

    “So are you over it now?”
    “Something I think about every single day of my life… you never get anything back.” (59:19)

• Speaking Out:
  • Alesha articulates the significance of sharing her experience—not just for herself, but to empower others to seek redress or support (02:29, 62:02).
  • “If it gives the courage to somebody else ... to pick up the phone, then it’s worth it.” (01:08)
  • Host Meshel Laurie affirms:

    "Why should you have to put a lid on it and keep the pressure of this inside your own mind and body? I didn't do anything wrong." (61:01)

  • Emphasis on the need for society to discuss abuse openly to erode stigma and silence (60:53–62:27).

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• [01:08] Alesha: “If it gives the courage to somebody else ... to pick up the phone, then it’s worth it.”
• [09:40] Alesha: “I’ve almost disassociated myself with that seven-year-old girl ... when I get upset, I get upset for that girl, not for me.”
• [13:00] Alesha: “It was hard, but again, it’s hard because I feel so sorry for that poor little seven-year-old girl. Not for me.”
• [16:03] Alesha: “It’s funny because he said, don’t tell anyone. Well, everyone knew.”
• [22:18] Alesha: “I turned to [Mum] and said 'gidmidi doesn’t live here anymore.' That little gimmicky’s not here anymore. It’s been taken away. I think that’s the worst part of it.”
• [23:44] Alesha: “I’m so glad he did [leave DNA evidence]. Because that’s what caught him.”
• [25:49] Alesha: “The worst thing has happened to me already. What else can you do?”
• [40:13] Alesha: “Because what more of a sentence could you get than everybody in the world knowing that you’re a rapist?”
• [58:46] Alesha: “To me, [having his name] on the Internet forever ... is a greater sentence than anything that judge ever could have handed down.”
• [59:08] Meshel/Alesha:
  • Meshel: “Closure doesn’t exist. That’s not a real thing. You never get anything back.”
  • Alesha: “No ... something I think about every single day of my life.”
• [63:51] Alesha: “People don't talk about it because they're ashamed. ... I did nothing wrong.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:00–04:00] Episode and case introduction, warning for sensitive content.
• [04:00–12:00] Detailed account of Alesha’s assault; community, family, and police immediate responses.
• [20:17–27:02] Impact on everyday life, school, and childhood innocence.
• [27:13–33:10] Adolescence and early adulthood: mental health, relationships, and disconnection from self.
• [33:10–41:10] The cold case, struggle with authorities, and use of DNA to identify the perpetrator.
• [44:09–52:10] Arrest, extradition, legal hurdles, plea, and sentencing.
• [52:10–59:01] Reflections on justice, impact statements, trauma’s legacy.
• [59:01–62:27] The importance of sharing, fighting stigma, final thoughts.

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Tone & Style

• Authentic, conversational, and unflinching. Alesha speaks with equal parts frankness and emotional restraint, often deflecting attention from her own suffering except to highlight the broader implications for others.
• Meshel Laurie maintains a supportive, validating stance, gently prompting without sensationalism.
• Empowerment Through Testimony: Despite harrowing details, Alesha’s story is ultimately about reclaiming agency and giving others permission to speak out.

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Key Takeaways

• Child sexual assault can occur anywhere, even in seemingly “safe” communities.
• Survivors may live for decades without meaningful justice or support, often due to social stigma and institutional failures.
• The power of DNA evidence and dedicated investigators can break decades-old silences.
• Disclosure and speaking out can catalyze not only legal justice, but personal healing and support for others.
• Advocacy, discussion, and representation in the media are crucial to breaking cycles of shame and silence.

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If you or someone you know needs support regarding sexual assault, please contact 1-800-Respect in Australia or an appropriate service in your area.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, non-content, and episode outro sections for clarity and focus on the narrative and discussion.

Transcript

[A]

The following podcast contains accounts of child sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised. This is Australian True Crime with Michelle Laurie. Back in 2018, we recorded an episode of the podcast with Alesha. When Alesha was seven years old, she was abducted by a stranger on her way home from school and sexually assaulted. She told her mother immediately and police began investigating. But the case went cold and stayed that way for 26 years. In 2014, Alesha contacted police to ask for a review of her case, and as a result, her offender was caught and convicted. In the next episode of Australian True Crime, released on Monday, Alicia joins us again to give us an update. But today we're replaying that first conversation to refresh your memory. This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung People of the Kulin Nation.

[B]

At vrbo, we understand that even the best of plans sometimes need a little support. So we plan for the plot twists. Every booking is automatically backed by our VRBO Care guarantee, giving you confidence from the very start. We whenever you need help, it's ready before your stay, through the moments in between and after your trip. Because a great trip starts with peace of mind and maybe a good playlist, but we've got the peace of mind part covered. I'm quite okay, if that makes sense. Like, I feel like I'm quite normal, if there is such a thing. But, yeah, I just want to do something more. And the reason that I contacted the police and had my case revisited was I was sitting around at a friend's house speaking to one of her friends. We were having, having a few drinks and she was going through something similar. She had been attacked when she was about 15 and she was going through the court process, you know, later in. In life or later, you know, after the fact, to. To have it open, I thought, well, hang on, if she can do it, why can't I? Why can't I contact the police and ask for my case to be revisited? So I guess, yeah, if it gives the courage to somebody else. And I'm not saying that everyone's going to have the same outcome that I have, but if it just gave somebody the courage to go, hey, I can do that, I can pick up the phone, then, then it's worth it.

[A]

I remember during the royal commission into the. What's the official title? It's so Long Winded into the Conduct of Institutions to Sexual Abuse of Children, I think that was the entire name. It came out that I think the Average length of time it took people to disclose sexual abuse from childhood was 33 years.

[B]

That's. I'm 36, so. So that's roughly a long time to hide something.

[A]

And I met a lot of men from Ballarat who were in that situation who had been sexually assaulted by clergy in Ballarat during that horrible period of time when there were a number of pedophiles working there. And yes, they. It had taken them roughly that period of time to disclose.

[B]

Well, mine was actually a little bit different because I. Mine was disclosed when it happened. So the night that it happened, we. The house was full of police and. Wow. Yeah. So. And it was in the media back in 1989. My dad was on the news. I remember seeing my dad on the news. There was like, two stations that blacked his face out, but one of them didn't. And I remember thinking, how silly is this? Because you could. I'm not sure which channel it was, but it was between, you know, 10, 7 and 9. And I was like, oh, you know, 10 and 7 have blacked his face out. Why didn't 9?

[A]

I always used to notice that as a kid about various stories. You think to yourself, well, I just saw that bloke on Channel seven.

[B]

Why is Channel two not showing he's there? And it was like, full blackout face, like it was one of them. Yeah.

[A]

Well, I hate to ask this question, but could. Can you tell us what. What happened?

[B]

Yeah. So, as I said, I was seven years old and I was walking home from school. We lived quite close to the school, but I had to walk. I had to cross quite a few main roads. And we also lived next to a hospital or opposite a hospital. So I used to cut through the car park of the hospital to get to this corner. Then I'd walk up and to cross the main road, there was three crossing ladies. So I'd cross with the three crossing ladies, pass a milk bar, and then walk down another street to get to school. So it was a bit of a walk.

[A]

What year was this?

[B]

Sorry, 1989.

[A]

Okay, right.

[B]

So my sister had just started year seven, so not obviously that year, so she was in year seven. So it was my first year of walking to school by myself. And, you know, there was no fear back then. There was no. We just did that. So, yeah, walking to school was fine. And so walking. I was walking home from school this day, and as I came up to the milk bar, there was two guys standing near a tree. And I vividly remember one was leaning up against the tree and the Other one sort of had his arm up and was. Was talking to him. And I just didn't think much of them, just a couple of guys. And I did my walk across where the crossing ladies were. And there's also another part where you could actually go across. And you, you know, as young kids, it was jaywalking. Like, you could cut across, you didn't have to go where the traffic lights were. And, you know, as kids, we never did that, but I noticed that one of the guys was actually doing that and it was a shortcut to get to the hospital. So I noticed him doing that, but again, didn't think anything of it. Walked up and as I got up to the corner, right where the hospital was, where I was getting closer, I'd cut through the car park, he started following me. He was sitting on a brick fence and I passed him and he started following me. And then he got a little bit closer and he said, oh, excuse me, I was just wondering if I could ask you some questions about your brother. And he said, I work for the council. And he goes, you know, I've seen you guys around. I know your brother's got a blue racer push bike. You've got your red one.

[A]

Is that all true?

[B]

Yeah, that was true. Yeah. Because we did. We were out riding all the time. And yeah, I had this red bike. And, you know, he'd seen us. He said, I was wondering if you can come to my office and I can ask a few questions. And I knew, like, it's funny because I look back now and I think, why did you go? Like, I knew that he didn't work for the council, but I just went, okay. And he grabbed my arm and he started leading me. Can I just. Yeah, sorry.

[A]

No, no, no, it's okay.

[B]

I'll just go on so much here.

[A]

No, I don't want to interrupt your flow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I just do want to say, because just not for one single second do I want you to say, why

[B]

did I do that?

[A]

Yeah, I don't. I just, you know, I just want

[B]

to make sure you like to think, oh, you, you know, you know why you do this?

[A]

Because probably you're a really good little girl and an adult asked you to do something and I don't know about you, but at that age I was very obedient to do what I was told to do by adults.

[B]

That's right. And adults, we like, my next door neighbour was Mrs. Or Auntie.

[A]

Same.

[B]

You never called adults by their first name.

[A]

So as much as I was told, stranger Danger. And this is a well proven fact now, isn't it, that as much as we were taught stranger danger, at the same time, our parents taught us respect for adults.

[B]

So, yeah, it would. I guess it wouldn't have been in me to scream and say, there's no way I'm coming with you. I would have known the same thing. And my brother, I guess you'd say he has learning disabilities. He's a little bit of a slow learner. And he actually went to a different school to us, so he went to a school in Hawthorne. And so, yeah, I guess in a way, it wasn't actually that unusual that somebody might want to ask questions about my brother. And so, yeah, so I. I went off with him, and I can't really remember much of the conversation, but we passed the hospital and I sort of said to him, I'm not supposed to go this way. And it is in my statement, too, that I did say to him. I can't remember this, but I did say to him, like, I don't know you, and I'm. I'm not allowed to go with strangers. And he was like, you know, it's okay. I'm not a stranger. I work for the council. So. So he did persuade me to go. And then. Yeah, so we went up around the road or up around a corner, and there was, as kids growing up, we called the haunted house.

[A]

Yeah, we all had one of those

[B]

in the neighborhood, didn't we? Yeah. And this one was like the haunted house of haunted houses. It had massive, big pine trees at the front. They had a pool in the backyard. Cause, you know, sometimes we'd sneak up the driveway and the pool was green and murky, and there were little dogs in the house that had bark at the windows. And. But you'd never, like, we never ever saw anybody there. Never. But there were people that lived there. And anyway, he started leading me up their driveway, and I said to him, I'm like, why are you taking me up here? Now, on the other side of the fence to the haunted house, it backed onto a kindergarten, or there was a big pine plantation, which then backed onto the kindergarten. And that was actually the kindergarten that I went to as a child. And he was taking me into that pine plantation. He said, my office is out here. Now, again, I knew there was no office out there because when I went to kindergarten there. So I was only in grade two. So it was only a few years since I've been at kindergarten. We used to have Easter egg hunts in the kindergarten, and they would Let us go out into the pine plantation, which was fenced off with a cyclone fence. But for the Easter egg hunts we'd go out in there. So I knew that there was nothing in there, but he led us. And as I was walking up, I actually saw get a lump in my throat. Now I saw the elderly gentleman that lived in the house raking up leaves in his driveway and he sort of looked at us. And as he looked at us, my attacker. Are we going with names?

[A]

It's up to you, Bob.

[B]

Yeah. So my attacker, Sterling Bauer, made me jump the fence, which was, you know those old wooden style fences that has the three railings, just a normal fence. And so he. I got up to the top and then I couldn't get down and he helped me down off the fence and then he just said, come on, let's go to my office and walking through there. There's so many parts of this story that like I shouldn't actually laugh at, but I've almost disassociated myself with that seven year old girl. So when I get upset about things or when I laugh and I guess the laughing thing's laughing at myself and the innocence. But you have very much so disassociated myself. So when I get upset, I get upset for that girl, not for me, if that. It's a little bit strange. I don't know if you understand that, but it just. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, he told me that he needed to go to the toilet. And I can remember being so embarrassed that, oh my God, a man was going to be going to the toilet near me. And yeah, he told me to turn around and so I turned around while he went to the toilet behind a tree. And then, yeah, he just took me to an area where I. I don't know whether he'd suss the area out or what. And then he told me to lay down on the ground and that's when he did what he did.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I have no idea. Like, the only reason I know exactly what he did to me was when I read my statement 27 years after the fact because I blocked it out of my memory. I have visions and I have flashbacks of I could see his thighs, his naked thighs. And I have memories of some things, but then there's a lot of. Yeah, memories that as I said, it wasn't until I read the statement that I actually realized how sick and disgusting he was.

[A]

Why did you have to read the statement for the course? Oh, I see. Okay.

[B]

Yes. How.

[A]

How was the process leading up to that? How? Did you have counseling to help you get ready to read the statement?

[B]

No. Oh, God, no. The police officers. Sorry, two detectives. One of them was the detective that worked for the Cold Case of Missing Persons Unit. The other detective was the first detective from the Croydon CIU department that took me seriously. And when she heard on my, on my voice that I wanted my case looked into. Yeah, she was the first police officer that took me seriously. And I had spoken to maybe seven or eight.

[A]

Did she know that you didn't remember any of the details?

[B]

No, I don't think that she actually realized. Yeah. And so it was like, okay, we need you to read over your statement. And I just sat there at my kitchen table with my youngest daughter asleep in a cot in the next room and my eldest daughter in the lounge room watching Finding Nemo.

[A]

Any other, any other adults with you there?

[B]

No, no, no one. Just me and the two detectives. Detectives.

[A]

Okay, the detectives?

[B]

Yeah, the detectives. Yeah, they sat with me whilst I read it.

[A]

So what's your memory of, of that. Of the moment? Of the time after that. I mean, of.

[B]

Of after the attack?

[A]

No, after reading that document, it.

[B]

Look, it was hard, but again, it's hard because I feel so sorry for that poor little seven year old girl. Not for me.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

And having two little girls myself, one of whom is now seven. Yeah, that's. Yeah, that was more what I was concerned about. Not for me, I don't. As I said, it's really funny. I don't. I don't because I don't want to say I feel sorry because I don't think that people should feel sorry for me. Why not? Because it's as I said, because I've disassociated myself. I feel like I feel so sorry for that little girl because I know what she's been through.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Even though she actually is me. It's. Yeah, it's really. I guess it's just the coping.

[A]

Did the, the reading of the document bring back memories?

[B]

Yeah. But you know what? The reading of the statement, probably the best and the greatest thing that I got out of it was after all these years, what I can remember was exactly what was in the statement. And so for all these years I've wondered, is what I have remembered actually what happened or is it what I've been told by somebody else? And there was actually. I actually won't go into too much detail about this, but there was actually something that I had been told was what happened, but that was not what I remembered. So when I read the Statement. I actually realized that what I'd been told was to protect somebody else. Oh yeah. So there was things that I have lived with that I've been going, but I don't remember it like that.

[A]

So are you saying that it wasn't actually as bad as you remembered or.

[B]

No, it was just better because I could almost like say that what I remembered was true. Like I was right.

[A]

What's the first thing you remember?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

After the.

[B]

So the first thing after the assault was I remember him saying, he said to me when he was leaving, he said, do not move and if you tell anyone, I will kill you. And I had told him where I lived. Like as we were walking, I was like, oh, I live at blah, blah, blah. So he knew where I lived. But I don't know. I don't know whether I just didn't care or what. Now I grabbed my backpack. Well, I got up and I pulled my pants up. I grabbed my backpack and I ran for the gate which led out into the Kinder. It was a six foot cyclone fence and I was not the fittest of kids, but I scaled that fence like you would not believe and jumped to the other side and I ran and I counted it the other night. It's like eight houses to. To my house from the Kinder. Wow. And I ran screaming the whole way and I. And it's funny because he said, don't tell anyone. Well, everyone knew.

[A]

Thank God for you.

[B]

Thank God you did. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm glad that I, I told. Like, of course, you know, so many kids don't. I mean, I often think that to

[A]

myself, how do I explain to my kids that no matter what anyone says to you or threatens you with to say, don't tell your mum.

[B]

Yeah, I'll give you lollies. I'll give you.

[A]

Or I'll hurt her or I'll hurt you.

[B]

And now we a gravel driveway. And the whole drive here today I've been speaking to my sister. So she heard me, she said, because I was a little bit late home from school, she was walking to the back door to sort of, you know, go out the back door. And she said like her first memory of that day is hearing me running down the driveway on the gravel. And she said I was screaming, I've been attacked. I've been attacked. I've been attacked. As I was running down our driveway. And she said, I ran up. We had 10 backstairs get a bit teary here. I ran up the back stairs and I was in a purple tracksuit our school didn't have like a compulsory school uniform. I did have a proper school bag, which I'll mention later. But yeah, I was in my purple tracksuit and Mum came from the kitchen to the back door and I was screaming, I've been attacked. And my sister said that she just pulled my pants down and she said pine needles just went everywhere.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And she said, mum. That was when my mum just panicked. So I. I can't remember any of this. So this is only going off what my sister's told me and we talk about this, you know, it's. It's never been a thing that we didn't talk about. So it's been quite open, especially last couple of years. Yeah. So she said that Mum rang either the police, but she definitely rang the neighborhood watch lady of our area. And my sister said, because my sister was 13, she said that she couldn't understand why Mum was ringing the neighborhood watch lady. She was thinking, why was Mum ringing her? But anyway. And then Mum grabbed her car keys and took off in the car and

[A]

left you girls at home? Yeah, she went looking for him.

[B]

Yeah, she wanted to find him again. We don't know how long. My sister, she said she was so traumatized. 13 years old and she's got my sister there going, I don't know what to do. Said mum came back and then the next thing the house was just for. My sister said on the way here, she said it felt like there was 10,000 people house, she said. And she said all she could think about was everybody in Mum's nice lounge room. All the police were in there sitting on Mum's good lounge suite with their shoes on. That's all she could think was, you know. And I know, like I can remember being a bit silly and almost mucking about and you know, like it was. That just shows the, like the innocence of it. And then not really. My sister said she didn't see me at all that night. I can remember when the police first got there. So then my next memory when like. So my sister's memory was all the police there. My next memory was in the toilet Mums, you know, just a single toilet room. And my memory was a police officers pulling my pants down and collecting all the pine needles. And even that was another thing that my sister said that Mum said when she was running out the door with the car key. She said, don't touch anything, like don't touch anything on me. Don't touch any of the stuff that had already fallen out of my Knickers. She said, yep, don't touch a thing. So. So, yeah, so that was my next memory was. Yeah. Being in the bathroom and having a female police officer. Yeah. Take my pants down and I guess then they probably collected all my clothes.

[A]

If you'd like to talk to someone about abuse that's taken place in your life, no matter how long ago it happened, your GP is always a good place to start. If that's not going to work for you, you can contact 1-800-Respect on 1-800-737-732 or via their website, 1-800-Respect.org au. Or you can call Lifeline's 24 hour phone counselling service on 13 11.

[B]

So there was no arrest. There was. I did a sketch. In fact, I've been told that there was two sketches. I only remember doing the one. I felt like I lived with the police for three months. Like, I can remember going to Target because I had to go and pick out his clothes and then we had to go and get my clothes because there was also one of those neighbourhood Watch, you know, bus information buses set up. There was a Crime Stoppers reenactment. Yes, done. What was your.

[A]

What's your memory of, like, being back at school? So obviously everybody knew.

[B]

Yep, everybody knew. Now, there was only one person the next day. So the day after the attack, there was one mum that showed up at our house with a meal that she had cooked and that was it. Nobody else. Everybody would sort of turn their backs when you'd walk down the street and because you'd walk down, you know, our local group of shops and the sketch was plastered everywhere and so you'd walk down there and people would almost sort of turn away. This didn't happen back in 89. Like, like it happened, but it wasn't in the media. Like people didn't know how to deal with it. They had only just started a sex crime unit in the police force. Like, this was not something that people were used to and this guy could be living next door to them. Who. Who knows? So, yeah, going back to school, I remember that I actually missed out on Red Nose Day because I didn't go to school for quite some time. I don't remember how long. But yeah, I remember being devastated because I missed out on Red Nose Day. I also remember. How silly is this? I remember being so devastated that I couldn't get my school bag back because they took all the evidence. And it was the time that Batman Returns had come out and I had all of my Batman return badges on. My school bag. And I was so devastated that I couldn't get it back. And I couldn't understand why I couldn't have it back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it wasn't until later on that they were like. It was like, it's covered in. Yeah. And it's covered in. In fingerprint, you know, dust and whatever else. No, it's that sort of stopped for me like that little. Like I lost my innocence that day. This is something that really is hard for me. But growing up, my nickname was Gin. Midi always. So Mum would call me Gin. Even my sister now occasionally still calls me Gin. And the night of the attack, when I went to bed, I then couldn't. I had to sleep with the lights on and Mum saying good night, give Midi. And I turned to her and I said, gidmidi doesn't live here anymore. That little gimmicky's not here anymore. It's been taken away. I think that's the worst part of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All I want is like, for my kids to be kids. I didn't even know what an erect penis was.

[A]

No, it must have been, you know,

[B]

in the statement it said that. Yeah, his penis was standing up. And another thing was. Which again is the innocence thing, is that I said that after. Again in my statement. I don't quite remember it, but in my statement I said that he weighed all over me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now I know that it wasn't we. So now, later on in life. But you know what? I'm so glad he did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that's what caught him.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That even.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That evidence was. Yeah.

[A]

Was what caught him as the years went, went on. And I mean, you know, I know you. You lost your innocence, but you were still a little girl.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[A]

As you started to sort of get that little bit older and to understand more of what had happened to you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What was life like then? I mean, as you started to get into sort of towards puberty and.

[B]

Yeah, well, I guess then it just wasn't really talked about that much anymore. I don't think there was really any counseling done afterwards because again, I don't think there was much available. I don't actually remember any. My sister said she vaguely remembers a woman coming over to our house once. So then it was just never. It was never really. It wasn't something that we weren't allowed to talk about. But it's not something that you just talk about while you're sitting around at the kitchen table when you're 11, you know what I mean? It's just not something that's really brought up. So you always live with it, but you never really discuss it. And yeah, I didn't have any counseling until I was. It wasn't until I was 18 when I was diagnosed with depression and. And then started that. But I'm sure that obviously there was issues much further on. I didn't have a very good, you know, school life. I didn't enjoy school. I dropped out at the end of year 11, which I just about failed on attendance because I wagged every day. Mum had no idea.

[A]

Yeah. When you started to sort of come into your sexual maturity, how was that affected?

[B]

Do you know what? It actually wasn't.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yep. It wasn't at all like, when I was 17, 18 and all of that, I was going out nightclubbing and picking up boys and.

[A]

Were you scared of sex?

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I wasn't actually really for quite a few years in my late teens, so sort of, you know, 17, 18, 19, even early 20s. I actually, I wasn't scared of anything.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Like, I got to the stage where I was like, you know what? The worst thing has happened to me already.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What else can you do?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So for me, the next worst thing would be death. So in. In at that time of my life. So for me, I wasn't. Yeah, Like, I wasn't scared at all. Like, I would go out walking the streets at, you know, 3 o' clock in the morning. There is no way in the world that I would do it.

[A]

Now, did you go through the promiscuous phase the rape victims sometimes do? Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And there was no care. Like, it didn't really mean much, really. I guess that's how it always was, like in my head that it. Yeah. I don't know. Like it's, you know, you think that, like sex and, you know, intercourse is something that's supposed to be a loving thing between two people, but that was not what. I knew it. As if that makes sense.

[A]

Well, yeah. In fact, that. That's what they say, isn't it? That oftentimes victims of sexual assault want to minimize it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Want to take any kind of power out of it and significance out of it.

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

To minimize what happened to them.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Hence the promiscuity. Did it work? Did it make.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

No, not really.

[A]

So. So all these years are going by and, and what's happening with the investigation all this time?

[B]

Well, I assumed nothing.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Obviously, like, I. I had no idea. I hadn't been contacted by anybody. So, yeah, so I was just going on living my life believing that he would never be caught.

[A]

Oh, boy. Scared. Were you scared he's coming back?

[B]

Not so much. I don't know why, I guess. Well, why would he come back now, like. And I guess when I was older. Why would he.

[A]

When you were little, were you scared?

[B]

I think. I think when I was little, I was. I don't actually remember, like, lying in bed, but I know that I slept with the lights on for a long time. I was too scared to sleep in the dark. But no, I don't. I don't actually remember ever being scared of him. I remember that I was scared when he wasn't first caught, that I was scared that he was going to do it to somebody else and it was more. So that's what. I guess why I wanted him to be caught was so he couldn't do it to somebody else. Not so he couldn't come back. Not, you know, he wouldn't be able to come back and get me. That wasn't actually a thought, which actually could have been quite possible. So, yeah, so I guess in. So in 2014, it was September 2014 that I contacted the police again. So I went. First of all, I went to our local. Just my local police station where I live now. Spoke to the detective, sorry, the constable that just was at the office, you know, at the desk. I had no information on it.

[A]

Have your parents pursued it over the years?

[B]

No. Well, so I actually haven't spoken to my mum in 10 years. I haven't had any contact with her for other reasons. That's a whole nother podcast. But, yeah, so there's. There's a few reasons why. Yeah, I haven't spoken to her. And my dad actually passed away in November and he was sick with Huntington's disease. Right. And my father was a bit of an alcoholic too, so I don't think he had much memory of.

[A]

Was he.

[B]

It happened.

[A]

Always. Did he always have an alcohol.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So before you're attacking. Yeah, so. And he and Mum split up when I was young, eight. So after the. After, after the attack. Yeah, so. And yeah, he's. But he's always been a big drinker. Always love to drink more than anything, unfortunately. Great guy. But, yeah, so I. I don't think that either of them had pursued anything. I don't think Mum had over the years. So.

[A]

Yeah, so. So you've walked in on this guy's shift, he's just doing the afternoon shift at the police.

[B]

Pretty much. Pretty much. And said Yeah, I want you to find something. Like can you find something? And he's like, you know, looked on the computer and he's like nothing. I'm like it was 1989. Like it won't be on the computer. I'm like I don't know how you police keep your records, but like I'm thinking cold case, you know, like where they walk down like this aisle and there's just boxes everywhere and they pull a box out, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So yeah, so he, after a little bit of investigating he actually found a document. And I never saw the document, but it was one page document and he was doing night shift and so he rang me this morning and said, I've got this document, you can come and pick it up tonight. I start work at 10 o'.

[A]

Clock.

[B]

I was like, oh fantastic, great. So I was thinking, great, here's my first little bit of information on, on my case. And then he rang me at like 10 o' clock that night and he goes oh, I'm really sorry but the senior sergeants just told me that I'm actually not allowed to give this to you and I'm not even allowed to show it to you. So I'm really sorry, you'll have to go through the correct process to, to get anything. And I was like oh damn. And so then I went ah, was in the newspaper, go to the state library. So I went to the state library and I brought up the Herald son, or the sun back then that or the Herald that it was in and I found the newspaper articles and it was, that was really like I went in by myself and just sat there on this computer, you know, with everybody else thinking, oh, what are they looking up? And you know they're doing, you know, some work on their assignment or whatever and here I am looking up ye newspaper articles from when I was attacked. Just was a bit weird. Yeah, so I found them and it was such a surprise because like I remember like I could remember in my head seeing the newspaper article and it was exactly in the paper where I thought it was like up in the top corner and it was like oh my gosh. And the newspaper also had something about Red Nose Day on it. So once I got to it I was like, I'm onto something here. And so yeah, there was three newspaper articles that I collected that day. And that's when I went, right, I'm going to start ringing around more. And so as I said, I think I spoke to about six or seven different police officers until one took me seriously and she was just the most beautiful lady. And she was like, okay, I can hear in your voice that. And I said, look, I've spoken to so many people. Everyone just keeps telling me to ring this department, that department, nobody wants to help, Please, please, can you do something? She was like, all right, leave it with me. And then we started communicating via email. And it was a little bit later on in the year that she sent me an email back and she said, I just wanted to let you know that I've just had this, received this email from the biology department and then was a copy and pasted email which said that we wanted to let you know that we have tested some of the evidence but unfortunately this time we were unable to get any DNA off the evidence. And she just, you know, wrote at the bottom, look, I'm really, really sorry, but you know, we've done, we had to look into it, you know, we'll continue to look on into it, but this is where it stands. And from there I just went, stuff it. I should never have opened this up. Why did I try? You know, here I am thinking that he's going to be caught. And that email was just like my dead end. No, nothing's ever going to happen. So I just went on living life again.

[A]

How are you living life? Like, you know, how is your mental health? How is your, how are your relationships?

[B]

My mental health has always been a bit of a struggle up and down, being on and off antidepressants. I spent two weeks in Monash psychiatric ward when I was in my early 20s for depression and wanting to end my life. I was then like with the CAT team for a long time. They used to come every morning and every night to give me my tablets because they actually wouldn't leave me with a day's worth of tablets because they were scared I would collect them and try and overdose. So yes, they come morning and night to, to give me my tablets and. Yeah, and, and then like they put me on some, like, I was like anti psychotics and some pretty full on drugged up medication.

[A]

So to take yourself into the police station and like to decide to pursue this and go through all the process, all the phone calls, find this lady who's supportive and then get this let down.

[B]

Yeah, and I never even emailed her back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like. And, and you know what, I actually probably felt worse that I never emailed her back. Yeah, yeah, because I was like, she's gone and done all this work and here I am, I just went, oh, I'll bug you I'm not emailing you back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I just couldn't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, what do I write? Oh, thanks, but no thanks. Like, you know, like.

[A]

Yeah, you can't write back. Oh, that's okay.

[B]

Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, exactly. It's not. Yeah. And it wasn't. And I was so angry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was angry that I had hope because you don't want to have hope, but it's so hard not to. So then, yeah, I just went on living, like, just getting by. We've got a couple of kids, you know, so. And they're great. They're my life. They're why I'm here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's for my girls. Yeah. So just. Yeah. You know, living life and. And going on. And then it was the Monday before Good Friday the following year, so in 2015, and I was having an afternoon nap because, you know, you sleep when your kids sleep. Yeah. And, yeah, I woke up and I had a missed call on my phone. It was a guy, and he said, hi, Alicia, it's Lee Prados from the Cold Case of Missing Persons Unit. Wonder if you could. From Victoria Police. I was wondering if you could please call me back. And all I heard was, lee Prados, Victoria Police. And I went, oh, what have I done? Oh, yeah, of course. Or, what has my partner done? Yeah, that was my other thing. Oh, God, what's he done? You know? Yeah, I was more, what has he done? Isn't that bad. But, yeah. So I rang back straight away, and he goes, I just wanted to let you know that Robin Waite, the detective from the CIU unit that you've been speaking with, actually passed your case on to me. And I've been working on it since late last year. He goes, I'm wondering if I could come out and see you. And I was like, oh, wow. What? What? Yeah, sure. And he goes, what about I come out on Thursday? And he goes, look, I'll bring Robin. Would that suit you if we come to your house? And he goes, oh, we can do it at the police station. I was like, oh, no, just come to the house. No, that's fine. So, sure enough, on the Thursday before the Good Friday in 2015, they turn up. Lee's very, very. He's young. Younger than me. And then there was Robin. And I just hugged her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And said, I'm so sorry I never emailed you back. She was like, oh, don't be sick.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, all right, come in. Do you want a cup of tea? Like, you know, I was really nervous. I don't have visitors coming over to my little.

[A]

Me neither. Me neither. So I get it. Totally.

[B]

And so, yeah, so they literally sat at both ends of the kitchen table and I was in the. And as I said, my youngest daughter was asleep in the cot in the next room. And my daughter, who she must have been about 4, she was in the lounge room watching Finding Nemo. And we just sat and he just talked all. He's like, I want to speak to you about the. The day. What you can remember. He asked me to read my statement. Oh, this is that day.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So this is that day. Wow. So, yeah, so he asked me to read my statement.

[A]

Gosh. So you were really unprepared for that. That just all happened.

[B]

Yeah. And I. He didn't tell me why they were coming to see me. Yeah, he just said, we want to come and see you to speak about your case. So I had no idea about anything. So then he goes on about how they pulled more evidence out of the freezer. He said, there was more evidence that we found in the freezer. And he said, we have pulled DNA off it. And as he started talking about that. My four year old's coming. I need to go to the toilet.

[A]

Of course, of course, yes.

[B]

At this time. All right, quick. Yes. Right. Come and sit on the toilet. And as I've come sat back down, like, my four year old sitting on the toilet, like, I could almost see her. And he goes, I just wanted to let you know that we've got a match. And that's exactly what I did. I gasped. And then. Wild.

[A]

Yes, of course. Was he already in their system as a perpetrator?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[B]

I just, like, I literally was like, what? And then the next thing it was like, mum, because I've got the little one come and wipe my bum, like. And I literally just was sitting there wailing and it was just, bang, gone. Right. Yes. Over here. Right, you go back in there. And then I just sat there in shock. Oh, my God. Going, what? Like. Like you know who it is. I'm like, who? He's like, I can't tell you. He goes, the only thing I can tell you is that we are keeping an eye on him. And so then I was like, oh, my God. So, like, they can't arrest him, but, like, they've got, like, someone following him. I was like, wow. How are they keeping an eye on him?

[A]

And he's obviously.

[B]

This is crazy.

[A]

He's not in prison at the time.

[B]

Yeah, well, he could have been. And I. Because I asked that, is, is he in jail? He's like, I cannot tell you anything. I asked, like, so many questions, and every time I go, can I just. Like, I know you're gonna say no, but did he? And he's like, I can't tell you.

[A]

You.

[B]

As Lee explained to me, unfortunately, in cold cases, this is 27 years after the fact. So that. That DNA. So in 1989, DNA wasn't available in Australia in like, say, like a quite vicious murder case or something like that. They may send it off to America for testing to be done, but it wasn't really openly available here. And then once it was, it was only murder cases that, you know, they sort of followed up. And I can't remember his name. And one of the police officers that you've been speaking to him when he podcasts, mentions his name, but he put all the evidence into a freezer and thought, let's freeze all of this. Keith Moore was. Yeah, the journalist that did the story. And he has actually also done a story on Sterling Bow and my attacker as well, which I sent him an email to thank him for that. Because anytime his name's mentioned in the media is, like, a massive bonus for me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because what more of a sentence could you get than everybody in the world knowing that you're a rapist? That, to me, is more of a sentence than any jail time that they. That he can do.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Yeah. I want him to walk out of jail and be thinking that every person he walks past in the street knows what he does, what he did.

[A]

So how did he go from the person who can't be named at your kitchen table to convicted rapist Sterling Bauer?

[B]

So, yeah, so as. As the detective explained to me, it's not just a case of we've got his DNA. He did it because it's been stored in a freezer for 27 years. Defense could come back and say that it was contaminated, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So they obviously need a lot more information to pinpoint him back to the area and to the crime. And there's so many ways that it was done, and there was things that we found out that just blew us away. So, you know, obviously we couldn't be told anything at the start. And it wasn't until the day that he was arrested that they told us his name. And it wasn't until it. He pleaded guilty that they actually told us he lived in the next street.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So that corner that he picked me up on, he actually lived in the block of units on that corner. So that's how he knew me. That's how he'd see me. He'd see me every day walk past his house.

[A]

How accurate now looking back was your sketch?

[B]

It was almost 100%. And that was one of the things that. And I've got goosebumps now because the detective said to me, he goes, I can't believe how. Well as a seven year old you got it right.

[A]

But I can't believe how this man was living in the community the next year with posters up everywhere of his face as drawn by you and the artist and nobody.

[B]

Yeah, he was 21 years old. It was actually two days before his 21st birthday. My sister swears that she knew who he was. And actually the teacher from our high school that we went to, his son was actually accused because he looked very similar to the sketch. But I knew him and I knew it wasn't him. Right. But I this. So this guy was 21, but in as a 7 year old I said he was about 16 or 17 or between 16 and 18, which is not that far off. So again, pretty good because yeah, I asked my 7 year old, you know, how old someone is and she'd look at someone who looked like me and say she's probably 80 or something.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, so. So, yeah, so he sort of fit the profile where he was actually a little bit older. So they thought he might have been a school age kid. So when like straight after it happened, like the police would come around with school photos and I would sit there all night looking at school photos to try and see if I could find him in there, there. So that was one of the things that the detective said to him when interviewing him was this sketch is you, you can't deny that.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

The similarities here. And he showed him a picture of him when he was 21 and said here.

[A]

Yeah, how was the court case? Did he plead guilty?

[B]

No, not at the start. Okay, so. So here's something that's quite funny. So my sister lives up in Queensland and when this first happened she was the first witness so she had to verify her statement. And I also had to go to the police station before he was arrested and redo my statement as well. And I added about 14 pages of things that I remembered that weren't in my statement originally. And they needed to do that with my sister. And so my sister and I were so excited going, they're going to fly you down to Melbourne, like, oh my

[A]

God, we're going to get to see

[B]

Each other, because we never get to see each other. So we were so excited. And because my sister and I were told we were not allowed to discuss it at all. And we didn't, like, we were so good with that. Geez, it was so hard because I want to be like, oh, no, we're not allowed to talk about it. And then. Yeah. So we were so excited, thinking, oh, she's coming down. And then the police told me, oh, we're actually going up to Queensland. And I was so shattered. Yeah. Because I was like, oh, they're going up to you. I want to come too.

[A]

Even get to see each other.

[B]

Yes. So they went and saw her on the Wednesday and she had her appointment, you know, with them. They came and saw her at her work and then when she was leaving, she was like, you know, where are you staying? And, oh, you've got it. She's on the sunshine coast. Oh, you got to go to Caloundra and you've got to go to the beach here and you should stop here. And she's giving them all directions and they're, you know, standing at Lee. And he had another detective with him. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we'll do. Check that out. Well, anyway, Lee's rung me at 10 o' clock the next morning and he goes, alicia, I just wanted to let you know we've arrested him. I was like, what, lived 30 minutes away from my sister up in Queensland. That's why they went to Queensland.

[A]

Oh, so they had to extradite him to Victoria.

[B]

So he was actually on parole up in Queensland. So that's how they were keeping an eye on him.

[A]

Can we say, was he on parole

[B]

for a sexual assault of another child? Yeah. And he was. They had to go to court the next morning. So then they went to court on the Friday morning to get permission to extradite him to Melbourne. And that's what they did. He never applied for bail the whole time. But I was told like that, to me, I found it really straight, like, found really strange. Why wouldn't you apply for bail? He's saying to the police he didn't do it, so why, if you didn't do it, why sit in jail? But they explained to me that if he did get bail, he would then have, like, 24 hours to get back up to Queensland, otherwise he would be breaking his parole conditions and it would have cost him money, to. Which he didn't have. He didn't have a cent to his name, apparently.

[A]

I also wonder if the conditions of where he was being held were such that he would be happy to or happier to stay there. Were comfortable. Because I wonder if he knew that he would be found guilty. And I see that he was sentenced to a minimum of four years with one year already served. So if he, if he was confident that the time he was serving before his case went to trial would count, then he might have thought, well, I might as well stay here where I'm comfortable. And that will count against the time that I end up.

[B]

Yeah. By the time it gets to court.

[A]

Yeah. Potentially. I mean, I don't know. These guys. Guys know this stuff.

[B]

Do you know what? You'd never be able to know what they were thinking because we're not like.

[A]

No, exactly.

[B]

So I.

[A]

But I mean, what off that sentence, it. It's sickening. Yeah, it's sickening that a person can rape at least two children and end up in jail for four years.

[B]

What I was actually told was in the sentencing that they can't actually take into effect anything that he has done after the crime, so he has to be sentenced as if it was 1989.

[A]

Okay, I get that. But you know what? Like rape one child and can you never come back, please? Yeah, like, why should you ever come back?

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I don't understand how you can lead one child away and assault, sexually assault them and ever come back. I don't understand.

[B]

It's.

[A]

I don't either because that's not, you know, that's such. There's so much premeditation, there's so much planning gone into that.

[B]

There was. I mean, as I said, he knew. He knew what time I was going to be coming from school.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One of the other really, really interesting things as well is that the way that they caught him was, as I said, it wasn't just DNA. So they knew where he lived. Then they found out where he worked. And he worked for a removalist. And today the police went to the removalist. And the removalist actually had his diary from 1989, which told them, the police, exactly what time Sterling Bauer worked on that Wednesday. So Bauer had said, it couldn't have been me because I was at work all day. But his boss actually said, no, they finished at midday on that day. So the first one was the committal mention, which is pretty much just that. The police told me, look, it's going to be a five minute thing. But I wanted to go because it was going to be my first time seeing him. And the police also explained that because. Did you know Fred's appliance has been

[A]

family owned locally since 1962.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

We are local like you. It's a five minute thing. Would be very unlikely that he would actually be there. They would just do a video cross to him in jail, which is what they did. And I thought that's probably a really good first way to see him. I'm not actually going to be face to face with him in the room. And yeah, so. So the committed mention was it's like a five minute thing. Just telling the courts what is going to, you know, what he's been. They didn't even say what he'd been charged with because still to this day I don't know the full list of charges.

[A]

And how was it when you saw him on the screen?

[B]

It was hard. Yeah, the first, first minute was hard. And then I just wanted to glare at him like I wanted to show him. And I'm sure that if. Because he could see the court too, apparently. But I don't know whether he could see me or not. But I was sitting there thinking, I hope you can see me and I hope that you can see. I'm not taking my eyes off the TV screen because I just wanted to glare at him and. And actually this. It was more the second time. The second time I saw him, I actually walked away and I. I hate to say this out loud but I almost felt a little bit sorry for him. I was like, you're actually really pathetic. He just, he looked a little bit simple and his tracksuit was like a size too small so I could see like the bottom part of his belly. And I was, yeah, he just came across and he's not.

[A]

I meant to be a sex offender, you know, I think there's generally a fair bit of cunning, rat cunning. So I'm sure he's not simple.

[B]

Yeah, but I did. I. Yeah, I was. I don't want to feel sorry for you because I hate him. Like I hate him.

[A]

Did you recognize him when you saw his face?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it was him. So. But that was more actually looking at Facebook.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he had a Facebook. As soon as he was arrested, that's when they told me his name.

[A]

Of course, I never thought of that.

[B]

Yeah. So I Actually had. Yeah. And he actually on his Facebook profile had photos of him from 1989.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. And like I look at the photo and I go, that's like taken where we grew up because you can tell by the pine trees and the fence and you know that's a local photo. So. Yeah. So then the second one, the second court case. So all along he was still claiming he didn't do it. Wasn't me. Wasn't me. One of the things that I sort of laugh at is your DNA's on my jumper.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he said he didn't know us. He said he had no idea who we were. If he said he was like a friend of my brother's and maybe he'd been in our house or something, there might be a reason that, that DNA. But why is a man semen on a seven year old's jumper? Like it can't be, you know, like, oh, a bit of, you know, a hair or something like that. Like this is obvious. But he denied, denied, denied. And then the next case was the committal hearing, which I wasn't asked to go to, but. And I, I'm denied about whether I would. It was a two day thing and for most of it I wasn't actually allowed to be in the room for it. And it was on the Monday and a Tuesday and then on a Friday I got the call to say that he had pled guilty to rape. So.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And prosecution accepted it. So they said that was that. We need to accept it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah. So he, he did that. As I said, on the Friday, I was. It really mixed emotions because that was the lesser charge. The worst charge was penetration of a child under 10. And that's what I wanted him to go with because that was the maximum penalty was 20 years, which I knew he would never get it. But the maximum penalty for rape was only 10 years. And rape is a very big umbrella. So I think. And not to say that anyone's case is worse than another, but I just feel that any crime against a child is just so unforgivable. And that's probably because I am one.

[A]

I don't think anyone's gonna hold that against you, but that's okay.

[B]

Yeah. As I think I said to you out in the foyer before I came in, like, this is my life. Yeah. I'm 36 years old. This is all I know. I have no idea the type of person that I would be today had this not happened to me. And that's really unfair. And the ripple effect, even for My sister, you know, my brother, like, these are things that they've had to live with as well. My sister, you know, it's horrible what he's done. He's taken away a life that I never knew, that I have. Yeah. No chance of ever knowing. No. Because that's it. That's my life. So he pled guilty. She's the court case. The court process is a long time, like I thought, okay, he's arrested. This is it. So this is 2015, he was arrested. I'm thinking, oh, by Christmas, all this is done and dusted. It's gone. But no, he was in jail for nearly a year before it even got to. To the county court. So the plea hearing. So he. He pled guilty and then it was sent over to the county court. And then it was April the following year that we went there. So the first was a plea hearing there where he pled guilty. I got to do my victim impact statement. My sister did hers. My mother also did one as well. So she was there.

[A]

How was that?

[B]

Yeah, it was a bit weird. We didn't talk. I had said to the police that. And. And the. The prosecutions who are there, like their counselor people. I said, you know, I. I don't today at times. Now's not the time for us to be. You know, back then it was eight years that we hadn't been speaking. I'm like, now's not the time to be, you know, bringing that up. So they just kept us separate. One of the really, like, bizarre things is Senior Sergeant Paul McBride, who has just retired from the Ringwood Police. He actually worked on the case back in 1989 and he was still serving the police force. So he came along, which was so

[A]

awesome, but it was incredibly satisfying for him.

[B]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. This is my thing. Like, it must be. Yeah, for the police, for my mum. Like, I never would have stopped my mum coming because she would have wanted to see this, you know, Danny, for a long time, too.

[A]

I don't know what happened between you and your mum 10 years ago, but she is still the lady who got in her car and drove around the neighborhood.

[B]

Yeah, I couldn't even imagine. No, I couldn't. So horrible to live through. So horrible. So, yeah, so she had a right to be there. I would never have said. And I could have said, no, I. I don't want to be in the same room as her or whatever. But, no, I wasn't going to be that petty. I wasn't going to sit next to her. But, yeah, she was yeah, more than, more than welcome to come in. Yeah. So, yeah, so she. I stood up and did my victim impact statement, which I'm so disappointed about. God, I wish I could go back and do it again. Why? Because I was so worried that they weren't. Whatever I wrote in it, they weren't going to allow it.

[A]

Who's. Who's the boss of victim impact statements?

[B]

I actually do get, and I think I've brought it with me today, you actually do get a guideline. Like, I was really worried that there were going to be things that I wasn't. Because you weren't allowed to say things like, I think you should go to jail for the rest of your life. I was so funny about what I could and couldn't say that. I then look back now and go, that was really like, I. I wanted to say to him, I fucking hate you. You've stuffed up my fucking life. And the worst thing was he was behind us.

[A]

Oh, so you couldn't even eyeball him to say it? No.

[B]

So I'm standing, looking at the judge and here I am like, I'm so proud of myself because it's, you know, before I was like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to get up and read it. Like, I'm like, generally I'm a massive blubbering mess. And then I was like, yeah, I'm doing this. And he was behind me. And so then when I finished and walked back to where I was sitting, I eyeballed him and the whole time he had his head down and I wanted to say to him, lift up your head and look me in the eye. Like, I want you to look at me. Yeah, I want you to. Yeah, well, no, because he's a coward.

[A]

He only takes on children.

[B]

Well, that's right. So, yeah. So as I said, that was pretty disappointing, not seeing him and him having his head down. But then I was like, oh, well, Lisa's so ashamed that he can't even look at me.

[A]

What changes, if anything, when, when you've spent your entire life with this perpetrator out there and this unsolved case.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it's solved, like.

[B]

And that's how it was, right? Yes. It literally went to doing my victim impact statement. Then a week later we had court again, which was sentencing, which was where he was sentenced to. Yes. Six years with four non parole. And he was put on the sex offender Register for 15 years once he's released. And the judge actually said that he believed that his chances of rehabilitation were cloudy. So if his chances of rehabilitation are cloudy, why wouldn't you put him on the sex offender register for life? He's 50 now. Now? Yeah. So when he comes out of jail, he's 51. When he gets off the sex offender register, he's still in his 60s. Like look at how many 60 year olds are fit and healthy and running around and could easily attack a child. That to me is like I cannot understand. And so that's where I said like the newspaper articles where they had a picture of his face and his name. That is brilliant. That's on the Internet forever. He's got his name. It's not Bob Smith.

[A]

No.

[B]

You google his name and only one person comes up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that to me is a greater sentence than anything that judge ever could have handed down because it was never, ever. Do you know what he could have given him? Life and it probably wouldn't have been enough.

[A]

We know from many, many, many people have said to us, closure doesn't exist. That's not a real thing. You never get anything back.

[B]

No. Do you know what a relative actually said to me only a few weeks ago? Oh, so are you over it now? Yeah. Right. Like I laugh about it because it's crazy.

[A]

I was like,

[B]

yeah, no, like something I think about every single day of my life and even more so now when you hear about all these things in the news. I had a mum of, I won't go into too much detail. And it was someone in their family and had been going on for a while and like I haven't spoken to this person for age and I just messaged them straight away and was like, oh my gosh, I'm. I'm just, I'm heartbroken. And then I couldn't sleep. No, because like this is actually a friend. Like this is not somebody on the news, it's not somebody you know in a newspaper. This is not someone you hear about. I actually know her and I've met the daughter before and she's seven and I was seven and I've got a seven year old and it's really hit really close to home and that's where it's then made me want to do this. And this is what the mum actually put in the post. She said, I've ummed an art about putting this post up. She goes, but people need to talk about it. And that's exactly right. And there's been some other people that I've mentioned to that I'm doing this podcast and they're like, shouldn't you just, you know, let it. Let it lie. But I'm actually not rehashing things. Nothing gets rehashed. This is my life. Like, I live with it every day. So it's not rehashing anything. And that's where, like, I want people to understand that is that. Yeah. It's not something that you ever get over. And I just learn to live with it.

[A]

Why should you have to put a lid on it and keep the pressure of this inside your own mind and your own body?

[B]

I didn't do anything wrong. No.

[A]

And you know what? For some people, they want to keep it private. And that's.

[B]

But that's fine.

[A]

But if that's not you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then please don't ever feel like you shouldn't tell your story.

[B]

And this for me was, as I said to you before, like, I really feel like I messed up my victim impact statement. If I could go back and do it again or send him a letter, I so would because I would redo it again. And my doctor, who I see regularly, I see him every fortnight, he actually said to me, he goes, you can do it. Like, just write it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, yeah, no, I can. But it's not the same.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. And I didn't get a trial, so. Which I know everybody says is a good thing, but it meant that I didn't get to have my say. So today was. That's what I'm taking away from this is today was my chance to have my little say.

[A]

We found so many people. Victims or family members of victims say I want to. For whatever their reasoning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They want their chance to tell their story.

[B]

Yep. This is what I almost want to do. Like, I feel like I've gone something when I say it, like, I go, oh, God, you sound like such a knob. But I feel like I've been through something that could actually help somebody else. So. But I don't know what to do. And, like, I'm a bookkeeper.

[A]

You say that like it's a bad thing. That's a good thing.

[B]

It's not a. It's not like I don't get anything out of it. And I want to do a bit more. And, yeah, like, I. And I'm so, like, I know I get a bit teary, but I'm so okay with what's happened to me, which sounds really. But as I said to you, this is like, this is me. So if I wasn't okay with what had happened to me, like, I'm not then okay with myself.

[A]

Yeah, no, I've met some of the guys from Ballarat that I was telling you about. There's a couple of those guys who I genuinely believe when they say I'm okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, they've been through a lot of counseling and. And they have taken sort of leadership roles within that community because they genuinely feel like they're okay.

[B]

Yeah. And I have no issues. Like, I am an open book.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But people don't talk about it because they're ashamed. That's right. And this is where I'm saying, like, I did nothing wrong.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

Any victim, you know, whether somebody says their skirt was too short, their top was too tight, they shouldn't have been walking at night, all of that, you know, I have those thoughts, too. But you know what stuff everybody else like. You didn't ask for this to be happened. I didn't ask for this to happen, so why should I be ashamed of it? He's the one that should be ashamed. He's the one that should be embarrassed, not me. I think you've. And that's.

[A]

I think you've done a lot to help people in coming on the show. I think that, you know, you will find people will contact you and say that you've given them the confidence to seek help. People who have not disclosed sexual assault will feel like they can and seek help to do that.

[B]

One person did, then this has been worth it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like it. You know, that's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. That's why I'm not keeping a living.

[A]

And let's not forget, you took a rapist off the street for at least a couple of years, babe. So thank you for that. If you're listening to Australian True Crime on Spotify, you might want to check out some of the playlists we've made for you of past episodes. There are links to those in the show notes if you need support after listening to this podcast, you can call Lifeline on 131114 or contact 1-800-Respect on 1-800-737-732 or 1-800-Respect.org AU. Indigenous Australians can contact 13 Yarn on 139276 or 13 yarn.org au. The producers of this podcast recognise the traditional owners of the land on which it's recorded.

[B]

They pay respect to the Aboriginal elders

[A]

past, present and those emerging.