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- [00:03]
A
This is Australian True Crime International with Michelle Laurie. One of the biggest crime stories in recent memory is the 2022 murder of four college students in the small town of Moscow, Idaho. Ethan Chapin was 20. Zana Kernodle was also 20. Kaylee Goncalves, 21, and Madison Mogan, also 21. They became known as the Idaho Four for their friends and families. Their violent deaths were literally unbeliev. Unbelievable. They didn't seem to have an enemy between them. In December of 2022, six weeks after the murders, criminology student Brian Kohberger was arrested and charged. Last year, he pled guilty to all four murders. But to this day, no one knows how he chose the victims, whether or not he'd ever met any of them, which one was his actual target, or how he seemed to know the layout of the house. Kaylee Goncalves family have always been very vocal. Recently, they channeled their anguish into setting up a foundation in Cayley's honour called Murder Has a Name and it has a very practical mission. Caylee's mother, Kristi Goncalves, and foundation board member Tracey Brocco, joined me recently on what would have been Cayleigh's 25th birthday to talk about the case and the foundation. This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung People of the Kulin Nation and a Warning. This episode of the podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence.
- [01:41]
B
Well, today, you know, we all kind of went about our normal day. You know, people had to work and so in the past we've kind of taken it off and stayed together, but this year just didn't work out that way. So I was, I was here by myself for the most of the day and, you know, I was just able to really, just reflect on Kaylee's birthday and really think about what we're really missing. You know, it's, it's, it's hard not to notice it every day. But then, you know, you sit here and think, you know, what would she be doing here, you know, out four years? Well, it's, it's her fourth birthday that she has not been here, so what would she be doing now? Where would she be?
- [02:33]
A
And we'll get to what you are doing right now, which is huge. And joining us also is Tracey Brocco. Tracie, you are part of this Murder Has a Name project. Can you tell us how you met the family? Are you an old friend or how is this worked out?
- [02:52]
C
I Am not an old friend, although it does seem like I am at this point. I just got interested in the case like everyone else did, and I just wanted to start reaching out to Christy just with notes, just to let her know that somebody was thinking about her. And over time, I would say it was probably a year that I was sending cards and just gifts, just thinking about Kaylee and the family. And she just text me back one day and said, you know, can we talk? And I thought, yeah, absolutely. And I basically just said to her, can we. Would you think about starting a foundation for her? I mean, I just. I didn't want her remembered for that awful day in Idaho. She was worth more than that. Her family's worth more than that, and she deserved more than that.
- [03:37]
B
And, you know, as her mother, it's very hard for me not to think about those last moments, you know, what she was thinking, what she endured. The fact that she was probably very confused, probably extremely scared, terrified. And I hate that. It's terrifying that someone can actually do this to another human being.
- [04:07]
A
And all four families had raised by that stage. Really pretty great kids. Pretty great, smart, kind, motivated, ambitious kids. And Ethan Chapin's family, his parents talked about having that feeling a week before the kids died that they sort of looked at each other and said, we've done it. We've got them through childhood. Here they are, they're all at college, and phew, we can relax.
- [04:34]
B
Yeah.
- [04:34]
A
I think that's also the feeling that a lot of us parents can relate to, is feeling like you've done your job at some point and you have to trust that you've done it and you have to let them go and spread their wings.
- [04:47]
B
Yeah. You know you do.
- [04:50]
A
When he pled guilty, there's always a conversation around, oh, this is better for the family, because we don't want to put them through a trial. But do you feel that, or do you feel that you lost something in not going to trial?
- [05:04]
B
We absolutely feel that we lost a lot not going to trial. We were. Our family was prepared. We had rented a house in that area, which is six hours away from home for the three months. They said it was going to be about three months, and we were ready to go. We understood the process was going to be brutal. We understood there are days that we wouldn't go to court. We also knew there was going to be scheduling orders. So we knew that certain things are going to be talked about on certain days. So we would be like, you know what, Tuesday, we're not going in. They're talking about autopsy resorts. Wednesday, we're not going in, you know, so we weren't, you know, we knew when what and what we can handle or we knew we could also get up and walk out at certain points, you know, so now is what's happened is instead of it all being over, all being out seeing the defense argue with the state, you know, the experts against the experts, battle it out right there in the court system through a three month trial. Now it's been almost a year because all the information comes out. It still comes out, but it's trickled out. So it's just constant salt in the wound. Salt in the wound. Salt in the wound. And you'll read and it won't come out. With the defense and the state, it will all be defense stuff. Defense. The defense experts all said this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, as you know, the defense as a totally different. They're gonna paint this in a totally different picture as the expert or as the state. So when you have them up right there against each other, but going back and forth in court, you could keep track of that.
- [06:36]
A
And also it can be debunked and it can be debated and, you know, that's the purpose of a trial. But now in everyone being able to release whatever they wanna release whenever they wanna release it, there's no debate.
- [06:48]
B
We just wake up like last Friday and our children's autopsy results were nothing redacted, there was no photos, but nothing at all in there. And it's very, very private information.
- [07:04]
A
The offender was, was apparently obsessed with serial killers, was studying criminology, was doing a specific course about serial killers. I guess the other thing about there being no trial is there are so many questions. Are these questions important to you, Christy, or just to me as a busybody true crime person? The questions about how did he choose the girls? How did he. Why, why, why, why, why?
- [07:29]
B
Every single question drives me crazy. Yeah, every single question. And you know, like I talked to some of the other families, you know, and they're like, I don't care. It doesn't matter. None of it's going to bring. So there are different aspects, you know, because there are different. There's four different families.
- [07:47]
A
Yeah, we all cope differently.
- [07:49]
B
I mean, I want to know everything that happened to Kaylee. I do want to know that. Almost every single day we talk about what? About this. Do you think it was this? You think it was that? No, I was, you know, like we, you know, and we've talked to the investigators. And we are left without answers that, personally, for myself, will torment me for the rest of my life. Or until maybe one time he does a jailhouse interview. Who knows? I mean, I have hopes that maybe, probably not anytime soon, but eventually he might get to a place where he says, okay, I'll talk, and it will make sense. And we will say, you know what? That makes sense. Not make sense. There's nothing to make sense of why he murdered them. Yeah. But his thought process, like, somewhat makes sense, like, you know. You know, of why he went in there, when he started following, you know, when. When was the beginning of the end, you know, was it. You know, I saw Kaylee one day in early June. She was walking the dog. I wound up just kind of following her home. And that's. It was born. My idea was born. Like, what? And I know I shouldn't. I know I shouldn't let it. And sometimes it's better, but it's never far. It's always right here, you know, just sitting right on my shoulder. Just.
- [09:18]
C
I wish his parents would encourage him to do it.
- [09:21]
B
Yeah, I do, too.
- [09:22]
C
Why are his parents not encouraging him to listen? You have done this. You have pled guilty to it. At least give them this. At least give them this.
- [09:31]
A
So let's talk about the Foundation. Murder has a Name. It is. What's great about it is it's got a very clear mission statement, and it's about helping people in very specific ways. Can you talk us through it? Tracie?
- [09:47]
C
Murder has a Name was born, obviously, from this. We definitely want to carry on Kaylee's legacy, and we want her to be able to help people. And we figured the best way to help people was to help give. Victims like Christy and Steve were at a time with no answers to help give answers to people that need them. So it will be where police can come, law enforcement can come and fill out an application, which we haven't gotten that on there yet. We've been focusing on fundraising because these are expensive tests, and law enforcement could come and fill out applications. And with DNA companies that we work with, once they get a quote from that DNA company, we will agree to pay for these tests that there are no funding for, which is extremely important. I mean, you have rape kits that sit on shelves for too long means the offender's just out there reoffending. You know, police, they're very busy, and they have a ton of cases. It's not just one case per detective. It's several cases. So it gets backlogged.
- [10:44]
B
This is exactly what Kaylee would have wanted, you know, for us to get these answers. So what happens is like our local law enforcement, they're. Most of them are extremely underfunded. So, you know, they have what is called codis and there's certain levels of codis and they run it through codis, which is, you know, previous offenders, violent crimes that are in there, they get no match.
- [11:12]
A
So they. So, so they take DNA from every violent criminal. Everyone who's convicted of a violent crime has to give a DNA sample. Right, and that goes on this database called codis.
- [11:23]
B
Yes, but we have actually found out that a lot of times the police don't even have time to put. To upload that to codis.
- [11:31]
A
Oh, no.
- [11:32]
B
So they don't find this person in codis. You know, it kind of draws pretty slow for them. They're kind of like. And some do have some local labs that they could go to. Most don't. So then you're looking at a private lab and for the most part they don't pay for the private lab. And that's what we work with, is the private labs.
- [11:53]
A
Tracy. So tell us, can you just summarize what. What would you like us to do? What do we need to do? I know a lot of our listeners are going to want to support you guys in. In your project. We've talked about uploading our DNA. Donate. We can donate on the website Murder Has a Name.
- [12:08]
C
Yes, just. That's donate. Upload your DNA and just talk about us. Spread the word. Just know that we're share us. We're doing it for every victim out there, past, present and future. We are trying to help all three of those categories. And the more help we can get, the more we would appreciate it.
- [12:30]
A
If you need support after listening to this podcast, you can call Lifeline on 131114 or contact 1-800-Respect on 1-800-737-732 or 1-800-Respect. Org AU. Indigenous Australians can contact 313 YARN on 139276 or 13 yarn.org AU.
- [13:01]
B
The producers of this podcast recognise the traditional owners of the land on which it's recorded.
- [13:10]
A
They pay respect to the Aboriginal elders past, present and those emerging.