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- [00:04]
A
This is Australian True Crime International with Michelle Laurie. In May 2010, 24 year old Shannon Gilbert disappeared after making a frantic 911 call from Oak beach on Long island telling police someone was trying to kill her. The search for Shannon led investigators to a remote stretch of coastline near Gilgo beach, where they instead uncovered the remains of multiple missing women, beginning what would become one of America's most notorious serial killer investigations over the years. The case remained unsolved until 2023, when architect Rex Heuermann was arrested after authorities linked him to the murders through DNA evidence, burner phones, and a renewed task force investigation. In April of this year, Heuermann pleaded guilty to murdering seven women and admitted to an eighth killing, though investigators are still examining whether more victims could be connected to him. The women Heuerman admitted to murdering were Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman, Amber Costello, Maureen Brainard Barnes, Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack, Sandra Costilla, and Karen Vergada. Today we're joined by Shannon McGarvey, host of the Lisk Podcast and a consultant and prominent contributor to Peacock's Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets documentary series. This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung People of the Kulin Nation and a warning. This episode of the podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence.
- [01:45]
B
So for listeners who have no context about what this area looks like. So. So you have New York City, which we all know, you know, we have a picture of that in our head. Right. High density, population spark, you know, huge buildings, all this stuff. Right. You drive just east of the city for maybe 30, 30 minutes, and you're in this long, you know, on this Long Island. Yeah. And it's quite rural. Parts of it are quite desolate and empty. And you have an area called Ocean Parkway, which stretches the length of, you know, the south shore of the island. And when you're on this, it's like a freeway, right?
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A
A road.
- [02:32]
B
Yeah, it's like a. It's a highway. And on either side, there's like a. There's a bay on one side and then there's the ocean on the other. And at nighttime it's black, like pitch black. And it goes for miles and miles and miles and miles. And so it was quite literally the perfect place to dispose of anything, including a body. And no one would catch you. I think I read it was a thousand days to the date from when he was arrested to when he admitted guilt. That on top of years and years and years of, you know, obviously not knowing the pain and torture that these families have been through is unimaginable. But in terms of victim advocacy and victims families, Mary Gilbert emerged as, you know, the sort of champion of all of that after her daughter, Shannon Gilbert went missing in the Oak beach community. But what's interesting about her is that her daughter was never linked to the Gilgo beach murders, but it was her disappearance that led to the discovery of the victims of the Gilgo beach murders.
- [03:53]
A
But also Mary's advocacy for her daughter and the months, I think it was seven or eight months it took police to really search for Shannon. So Mary, during that period of time, is working very hard to get interest in the fact that her daughter has gone missing in this environment. And this, this is our first clue that Shannon's lifestyle, to put it, you know, politely as we do, the fact that she was a drug user, she was a sex worker. This is when the question first was raised. Is that an issue in police not investigating thoroughly?
- [04:27]
B
Yes. The question was asked, does the fact that these women were engaged in sex work have anything to do with the fact that these cases have gone cold and unsolved? And, you know, mind you, this case was cold for years and years and years. I started working. I came onto this case in 2016, which was six years after Shannon Gilbert had gone missing. And by this point, the police chief in Suffolk county had gone to jail. You know, and that was. I was just thinking.
- [05:03]
A
I was thinking things were constantly shifting on the side of law enforcement, too. On Long island, right?
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B
Yes.
- [05:09]
A
The district attorney, the police chiefs, personnel in and out. So that changes the direction every time.
- [05:15]
B
Oh, yeah. This very, very solvable case had languished for so many years as unsolved.
- [05:25]
A
Well, I mean, you call it a very, very solvable case. And indeed, this. People now talk about it coming together in six weeks. In the end, when a particular right when the DA and the police did. Yeah, were really on top of it and really interested and really on it and reinvestigated the case. And the other thing I think that comes through is that so many of the family and friends are feeling guilt because they maintained close relationships with these women. These women hadn't been thrown away by society or any of those cliches we often think about with women living this lifestyle. They were all guilt. Most of these victims that we know about were close to their families, were in constant contact with their families and friends, and were missed very quickly.
- [06:12]
B
That's right. To your point, they were all loved and cared for. And they had families and lives, and through the arbitrary circumstances of life of life, found themselves in these horrible situations that for whatever reason, they could not escape. And unfortunately, it ended up, you know, killing them.
- [06:31]
A
Well, I mean, talk about the arbitrary circumstances through which they cross paths with Rex Heuermann even. You know, I mean, these are girls who. They don't work every night, they don't work every day, they don't accept every call, and yet, unfortunately, they happen to have their phone switched on on a night where his family was out of town, where he was in a position where he could murder somebody. They fit the description that he was looking for. Petite young women. The bad luck of it is just horrifying. And I think about Melissa Barthelemy at the moment when I think about the statement that Heuermann's lawyer made when someone asked, why did he plead guilty? Why after all these years of claiming innocence, has he chosen to plead guilty? And he said, oh, well, part of it is that he wants to spare the families a trial. And immediately when we hear, you know, we call bullshit on that, and we. We think about Melissa's sister Amanda, who was a young teenager when her sister went missing, and she.
- [07:35]
B
15.
- [07:36]
A
Tell us about the contact that Heuerman had with this child.
- [07:40]
B
Oh, God. So, yeah, Amanda. Amanda Funderberg is her name. And she. She actually. She sat down with us on the Lisk podcast. But, yeah, she was 15 years old at the time, and she was very close to Melissa and had a trip planned from Buffalo down to the Bronx where Melissa lived. And I think, you know, she might have known a little more than. Than the mother did about, you know, what Melissa was engaged in. But, yeah, they. They were very close. And because she had a trip planned, you know, they had been calling a lot and texting, you know, just communicating a lot about the impending trip. And when Melissa went missing, her phone, you know, we now know Rex Heuerman took her phone and, you know, when she disappeared, you know, kept it and called the family, called her sister Amanda and taunted her with just these terrible, terrible things. You know, like, they said, I know. You know, I know where your sister is. I murdered her. She, you know, was. I killed her in a. In a whorehouse in Queens, you know, describing certain things. And this poor girl who was, like I said, 15 years old sat there and listened to it and then had to tell the authorities about it. I've seen, you know, they made her write it down. I've seen the page that, you know, in her handwriting that, you know, she Wrote all these horrible things that he had said to her. And when we sat down with her, she recalled it as though it was like. And it just happened, you know, it was like. You could just see. It was like ptsd.
- [09:34]
A
Absolutely. But she's reacted with rebellion. It's. It's like she has been rebelling against him ever since, in her own little ways, long before she knew who he was or had a face for him. She talks about not making herself invisible. She talks about opening Facebook accounts, opening all those accounts under her real name, weirdly hoping he would contact her again in a way, if that could help track him down, if that could add evidence. I mean, she's incredible strength. As part of the plea deal that he's done, he has agreed to submit himself to analysis right by the behavioral analysis unit at the FBI, most commonly known as the profiling unit. Why? Why do you think that? And do you think we're dealing with a guy here? I'm thinking about a Ted Bundy or again, a btk. Someone who wants to. Who's kind of proud of what they've achieved and wants to talk about it.
- [10:32]
B
Well, when law enforcement collected evidence from his home, they found that book, Mindhunter, which was. I can't remember the author's name, but.
- [10:42]
A
John Dougl. It's the. Yeah, so it's the classic. And then there was the TV series about it. I was thinking.
- [10:48]
B
Yeah, he. He fetishized all of that. That behavior analysis, that behavioral analysis, and he used it as sort of like a textbook, you know? What did he say? He said, I think Rex Heuerman described it as like the. The artist and the painting or something. Like, it was like, you can't. Like you can't study the artist. You have to study the technique, which is disgusting. I mean, he's talking about. You know, I think he fancies himself as some sort of maniacal artist or something like that, you know, so.
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A
And a genius. They always think they're genius.
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B
And a genius. Yes, absolutely. And which he's not. He's sick and he's a deviant. He's not a genius. And the only reason he got away with it for so long is because the Suffolk County Police Department was so inept and the FBI was kept at arm's length because. And again, if there's any, you know, potential killer out there or whatever, listening, it's like, you're not a genius. You know, it's just. The only reason this guy even got away with it is because of all those factors. It was just luck it was dumb luck.
- [11:54]
A
Do you think? His lawyer has said that he expects that he will speak. He will have something to say at his sentencing hearing where the families will give their victim impact statements. What are you expecting from him there? I. I have two cases that come to mind. The first, obviously, is BTK Dennis Rader, who stood there for an hour and detailed every murder, how he did them. The other, though, is Brian Kohberger, a recent case. The man who murdered the four students in Idaho who said nothing. And that was devastating because the families still have no idea of motive, no idea how he even connected with these kids, how he found them, how he chose them. So what are you expecting from heu men?
- [12:39]
B
I mean, I think what I'm expecting and what I wish, maybe in conflict. I hope that the families can address him. You know, I hope that there will be some. I don't know that there is ever quite closure in cases like this, but some peace that they might find at, you know, getting years and years worth of trauma off their chest. Talking to him, addressing him directly. I don't think he's capable of remorse, whatever he says. Honestly, I. I'd fear that it would only traumatize the families more. I think that we know everything that we need to know about what he did and how he did it. It's been detailed to the nines. And I think that any apology he offers them is empty. It's hollow. But again, I'm not them. I don't know what they want. But I would hope that they would be given a platform to address him directly in a private way. And I hope that it's not televised or recorded. But, yeah, whatever he says is not. I mean, what is. What could he. I mean, and seriously, what could he possibly say? We know everything. If he says sorry, would you believe him?
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A
No.
- [13:56]
B
Did you see the. The. The video of him in court where the. The judge was asking, you know, all of you know, like, do you understand what's happening? And did anyone promise you anything for this? And I was just looking at him and thinking, like, here's this guy with, like, kind of a lisp. He's just kind of this, like, ogre, this nerd, you know? And I'm like, you have no remorse. You don't seem, you know, it's just very blase, like, oh, yeah, yeah, I understand. Yeah, yeah, totally. And I'm like, how it was just so hard for me to reconcile, like, looking at him and thinking, like, you've done these, like, these horrible, terrible things,
- [14:37]
A
but it always is isn't it? You never see. I've never seen anyone in the dock or anywhere and thought, yep, you look like you murdered that lady. I can never. I can never reconcile it. I get. I look at their hands and I think, with those hands, you did these things. But I. I can never make it real.
- [14:56]
B
It's sick. And. And there's just this other side. And I think that's why, you know, I think that's why people are intrigued by serial killers. You know, like, it's the. It's the heart of darkness, you know, it's like, it's that. How could you do that? Like, where does. Where do you go? Like, where does. Like, how can you turn your humanity off?
- [15:21]
A
If you need support after listening to this podcast, you can call Lifeline on 131114 or contact 1-800-Respect on 1-800-737-732 or 1-800-Respect. Org AU. Indigenous Australians can contact 13 YARN on 139276 or 13 yarn.org AU. The producers of this podcast recognise the traditional owners of the land on which it's recorded. They pay respect to the Aboriginal elders past, present and those emerging.