Still No Justice for Anna Jenkins

Summary

Australian True Crime – “Still No Justice for Anna Jenkins” (July 19, 2026)

Overview

In this powerful and emotionally charged episode, host Meshel Laurie speaks with Greg Jenkins, the son of missing and murdered Australian woman Anna Jenkins. Eight years after her disappearance in Malaysia, Greg recounts his relentless battle for justice and transparency in a case plagued by indifference, police inaction, and cross-jurisdictional failure. The episode serves as both a harrowing account of family trauma and a broader commentary on the systemic failures that impact Australians affected by crime overseas.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Anna Jenkins: A Life of Service and Compassion

• Anna’s Character
  Anna was described as an incredibly kind and giving person, running emergency accommodation in Adelaide, caring for vulnerable people, and supporting her own family through difficulties.

  • “She ran it herself. She also helped, like, cook for them, clean for them, would help, say some prayers. So yeah, she was just a beautiful human being.” — Greg (01:06)
  • Greg aspires to emulate his mother's compassion and strength (“If I can take at least one leaf off of her tree, I think I'd be a better human.” — Greg, 01:19).

• Family Resilience
  After Anna’s disappearance, Greg and his sister divided the responsibilities: he handled the search in Malaysia while his sister cared for their unwell father.

  • “Together we, we were able to move mountains and help so many other people.” — Greg (02:31)

The Disappearance

• Timeline of Events (2017)
  • Anna visits Malaysia to see her mother and goes to the dentist on Dec 13, 2017.
  • Last seen taking an Uber; Uber was new in Malaysia and cash transactions made tracing difficult (05:20).
  • Anna calls her husband at 5:22pm: “She made a phone call...to say that someone was trying to kidnap her and they were after her passport...then the phone cut out and that was the last.” — Greg (08:12).

Immediate Failures in the Search

• Language Barriers & Police Disinterest
  Initial police report was fraught with translation issues.
  Investigation plagued by apathy: constant missed meetings, lack of basic investigative steps, disregard for critical leads, including surveillance cameras.

  • “They just sat there like they didn’t want to be there... gave no respect to me or Dad.” — Greg (11:38)

• Technical and Systemic Obstacles

  • Police unwilling to access or review surveillance footage, with key evidence overwritten after weeks of delay (14:29).
  • The family's observations: “That trust slowly gets broken down to a point where you go, holy shit, they're not doing anything here.” — Greg (13:21)
  • Early fabrication by police: Anna “ran away,” or was “involved in drugs,” despite no evidence.
    • “They made up this story that there was a diary on mum’s bedside table to say that me and her were involved in drugs.” — Greg (16:01)
    • “Chief of police...said that Mama just wandered into the bush... so she’ll be fine... you’re the head guy for Penang and this is your assumption.” — Greg (17:30)

Corruption, Gangs & Danger

• Criminal Underworld Connections
  • Chinese gangs “protect” affluent neighborhoods; victims perceived as outsiders become targets (09:22).
• Media Silence & Financial Interests
  • Anna's case suppressed in Malaysian media to avoid damaging tourism.
  • Development of real estate on the site where remains were found supplied a powerful incentive to silence the case (23:21).
  • “Under Chinese tradition, it's taboo to buy property that's had human remains... So in order to protect the developers profits... [the remains] were buried.” — Greg (24:34)

Discovery of Remains and Continued Obstacles

• Finding Anna's Remains

  • Construction workers, under instructions not to speak, initially cover up the discovery.
  • Discovery comes to Greg via a tip-off from a worker chasing a reward.
  • Greg and his family carry out much of the search and investigation themselves, finding Anna’s possessions and remains that police refused to look for (34:45).
  • Forensic mishandling by police, minimal search effort, and a drive to “close the case” with minimal explanation or evidence.

• Official Response

  • Death certificate issued before DNA test, listing cause as “undetermined/natural causes” (29:01).
  • “They haven’t obviously had time to do DNA on it... DNA testing was done three months later.” — Greg (29:07)

• Personal Cost

  • Greg's self-funded search: “first three years I did about 60 trips” (48:41) and legal costs surpassing $1.4 million (49:01).
  • Emotional toll: Facing remains, searching morgues, confronting bureaucratic indifference and family trauma.

Advocacy and Ongoing Battles

• Fighting for an Investigation

  • Despite a recommendation from a High Court judge, the Malaysian Attorney General refuses to reclassify the case as kidnapping and murder (42:28).
  • “I'm not going away until they actually do that investigation.” — Greg (43:09)
  • Testing the boundaries of diplomatic support, highlighting the limitations of DFAT and the Australian High Commission.
    • “They use this throwaway line that we're giving consular assistance to the family. And it's like, all right, well, what does that mean?” — Greg (40:07)

• Wider Impact and Community

  • Support for other Australian families, advocating to change the Victims of Crime Act for Australians hurt or killed overseas (45:09).
  • “Frankly Roasted,” a coffee business with proceeds funding victims of crime support networks (47:31).

Broader Issues Raised

• Corruption and Culture of Silence

  • Systemic corruption, profit over human life, and a “face-saving” culture in Malaysian authorities is repeatedly confronted.

• Government Priorities

  • Australian and Malaysian authorities more concerned with trade, commerce, and international relations than justice for crime victims.
  • “Her voice just gets drowned out by all these other competing priorities like trade, like... this has got nothing to do with politics... it's an Australian citizen was murdered in another country.” — Greg (45:09)

• Personal Motivations

  • Greg’s persistence ('doing nothing will get nothing') inspired by his mother’s legacy. He refuses to allow Anna Jenkins to become a forgotten statistic.
  • “If we just roll over now, then what's the point. What was the point of the last eight years? It would have been for nothing.” — Greg (43:27)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “The story that sticks with me is that she rented a house herself in Adelaide and she turned it into, like, emergency accommodation, effectively.” — Meshel (00:59)
• “He always felt as though he should have been there with her and carried a lot of that blame.” — Greg, on his dad (08:40)
• “The amount of effort they've put towards not searching.” — Greg (37:31)
• “An individual is strong, but, like, combined with other people, you have strength.” — Greg (46:42)
• “Doing nothing will get nothing. It is costing us. But I'm doing things on the side that helps for me mentally...” — Greg (46:52)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:06 – Anna’s character and charity work
• 04:19–08:34 – Events surrounding Anna’s disappearance and the initial police response
• 11:38–16:38 – Failures of Malaysian police, language barriers, and early accusations
• 22:04–24:34 – Media response, real estate development, and the burial of remains
• 28:02–36:11 – Discovery of Anna’s remains, forensic and investigative mishandling
• 37:52–38:41 – Expert opinion: remains not at the original crime scene
• 39:11–42:28 – Limitations of Australian authorities, consular support explored
• 47:31–48:30 – “Frankly Roasted” Coffee and ongoing advocacy

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Conclusion

This episode lays bare not just a personal tragedy, but the inertia and callousness too often faced by families of crime victims abroad. Greg Jenkins’ determined, methodical campaign for justice is a testament to his mother’s memory and an indictment of official neglect, resonating far beyond Anna’s story to touch the experiences of many other Australians facing similar fates internationally.

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For more support, listeners experiencing distress are directed to Lifeline (13 11 14) or 1800-RESPECT.

Transcript

[A]

This is Australian True Crime with Michelle Laurie. Some time ago, we spoke to Adelaide man Greg Jenkins about the suspected murder of his mother, Anna in Malaysia. He joins us again, eight years after she disappeared, to update us on his fight for a thorough and transparent investigation into her death. This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung. People of the. Of the Kulin Nation and a warning. This episode of the podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence. Your mum was such a beautiful person, like no one wants. I keep thinking about my mum. Yeah, she's all so great.

[B]

But

[A]

she would agree that your mum was just kind of above and beyond in terms of kindness. The story that sticks with me is that she rented a house herself in Adelaide.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And she turned it into like emergency accommodation, effectively.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

She ran it herself.

[B]

Yes. She also helped, like, cook for them, clean for them, would help, say, say some prayers. So, yeah, she was just a beautiful human being. And, you know, if, if I can take at least one leaf off of her tree, I think I'd be a. A better human.

[A]

I think you have taken many leaves off her tree. I think you're, you know, tenacity, your commitment and your commitment to her is very moving.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and again, I was thinking about. I thought, would I. Could I do what you're doing if this had happened to me or would I sort of say, this is terrible, we live in a terrible world. My mum's. Something has happened to her in Malaysia and I can't. There's nothing I can do about it. Cause the police won't help me.

[B]

Yeah. I think you never know until you're thrust into that situation. And you can be. Be quite naive. Yeah. To think, oh, you know, I would do this, I would do that. And then when you get thrown into, in, into the. The world, which I hope no one ever gets to experience, then you, you do whatever you can for the family.

[A]

You've taken on a very paternalistic role, I would say, in the family. Didn't you? Your dad was still living at that time, but he was unwell.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so you took on the role of. I'm gonna sort this.

[B]

Yeah. So we had a chat with. With my sister. She was a single mum with two young kids.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we, we kind of made the. The deal that she would come over and help when she can, but she would deal with dad and look after him. I would go over there and do the searching and. And together we, we were able to. To move mountains and help so many other people. And. And this is the other thing. When you're thrust into this position, it doesn't just affect you, it affects so many other people that have been in some of the similar situations or people that love reading True Crime. I've met quite a few people along the journey that. That want to be involved and want to help. And so we've able to have this, like, from a small drop in the ocean to have such a large ripple effect.

[A]

Yeah. The True Crime community is really powerful, positive community in my experience. I know that there's cowboys in every industry and all that kind of stuff and there's certainly shows that they don't think are very sensitive or whatever, but in general, I feel like the audience has its heart in the right place.

[B]

Absolutely, yeah. And whether it's intrigue, whether it's. They want to help solve it, everything is. Is from a positive point of view where someone might be able to tell you something that you haven't thought of previously. Or just learning about, like, for us as well, like learning about Mum's situation is. Is huge in itself. Just to listen to the story and see this is what's happening in the world and this is how the Australian government deals with it, this is how the Malaysian government deals it and it opens their eyes as well to the dangers that are out there.

[A]

Yeah. It's an extraordinary story and yet when you break it down and you educate us about these points along the way, it feels like, oh, this could happen again. This probably has happened.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So when did you first realise your mum was missing?

[B]

Yeah. So Mum and Dad went to Malaysia to visit Grandma. So Mum's mum, who lives or used to live over there, and we got word that she probably wouldn't make it to Christmas or not long afterwards. So Mum and Dad did a trip. So while she was there, Mum sees a dentist. She's been seen at dentist since 2002. So this was 2017. So on the 13th of December 2017, she went to have a dentist appointment. Dad was suffering with multiple cancers at the time, plus he's had heart issues and just wasn't feeling 100%. So the idea was Mum would go to the dentist, then go visit Grandma, come back, they'd meet up for dinner and then. And then crack on. So Mum caught a taxi, went to her appointment. Her appointment was 3 o' clock that afternoon. On the Wednesday she finished the appointment, she got picked up by an Uber. Uber was only brand new in. In Malaysia around that time.

[A]

And I remember you saying that. Yeah, it wasn't even an app really, so you could pay cash for it. So wasn't as traceable as we think Uber is.

[B]

Correct. That that was kind of the. The last known point for Mum. There's the. The police have told us that she was dropped off, like she asked to get out of a taxi near an orphanage. Again, there's no evidence to suggest that there was. The orphanage itself at that time was the end of school, so it was flooded with kids playing soccer. There was a lineup of cars going to pick up their children. Plus there's also two security guards there at all times. So 24, seven and no one's seen a thing.

[A]

I guess your dad raised the alarm, said she didn't come home from the dentist.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's the first you kind of knew.

[B]

Correct. Yeah. So. So that afternoon dad let the. The hotel manager know that. That Mum hadn't arrived. So they went and did a drive around at the same time my dad had called my sister. I was away with the defence force at the time and I didn't get my phone back to me until later that day when I received, I think it was like 111 missed calls from my sister. And as I said, worst, isn't it?

[A]

Worst case scenario for anyone if you've been away from your phone for any period of time to get it back and see all these missed calls.

[B]

Yeah. Or who has a sister that doesn't usually call you.

[A]

Yeah, right. Oh, gosh.

[B]

Not just a little stab at her, but. Yeah. But again, you're still naive and you don't think this could ever happen to us.

[A]

Also, was your mum naive, like because your mum was Malay by birth, had grown up there. Malaysia.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

She was there a lot. Like four times a year or something.

[B]

Right.

[A]

To visit grandma and all that. Do you think she had any idea that it could be a dangerous place or was she living sort of a different life there?

[B]

I guess she was always wary. But yeah, again, she's traveled there by herself before, so felt relatively safe in Penang and in Malaysia and she wouldn't

[A]

hang out in dodgy places. That's what I always think. I probably overestimate my safety sometimes. Cause I think, well, I'm not hanging out with. I'm not looking for drugs, I'm not looking to pay for sex. I'm not in any of those areas.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

But we forget that they're kind of. They can be everywhere.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. So then the police were called and then the police report was done. The Next day. And then that in itself is difficult because the police didn't have an interpreter. They had a guy that didn't speak English and didn't understand English. So the. The police report was what they think was said. So luckily the. The hotel manager had someone that kind of spoke English and did a little bit of translating for us, but trying

[A]

to get the details from your dad. Yeah. And there's this language barrier.

[B]

Correct. And dad also identified that Mum had made a phone call to him at 5.22pm on 13th December to say that someone was trying to kidnap her and they were after her passport. He said that he tried to tell her to come back to the hotel, but then the phone cut out and that was. That was the last.

[A]

God, how awful. Yeah, that's the last he's heard of her.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that. That crushed him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, he. He always felt as though that he should have been there with her and carried a lot of that blame. And then when. When the dementia started to kick in, he would always try and break out of the nursing home that he was in to try and go protect my sister and her boys. And. Yeah, it was just horrible.

[A]

It is horrible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So do you think, in retrospect, it was the Uber driver in adverted commas? We're not blaming the Uber corporation, I want to make that very clear. But, yeah, the. The driver who picked her up, do you think he was the person she was talking about who was trying to kidnap her?

[B]

Yeah, he's. He's never been investigated.

[A]

You know who it is, though?

[B]

Yes. Yeah. So he's. He's not an Uber driver anymore?

[A]

No.

[B]

So the way that it works is they've got Chinese gangs that protect the affluent areas. So from. From what I understand, the. The people that live in those affluent areas, they pay a tax, then that gang will then pay a tax to the authorities to make sure that they aren't really looked at. So the rule is they can conduct nefarious activities. It just can't be with anyone that lives or is associated with the people in those affluent areas. So anyone outside of that becomes free game.

[A]

Oh, God. And so when you get in a car and you're being taken to a hotel, that's a red flag to them that you're not local.

[B]

Correct. Yep. And so Mum didn't have a. A credit card or an ATM card. She had those old frustrating passbook Commonwealth bank accounts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So she would always carry cash with her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's. And she was on her way to pay for Grandma's nursing home, so she normally pays 12 months.

[A]

So you, I guess, went straight to Malaysia. If we can go back to when you realized that she was missing.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

When did you realize that you were going to have problems with the police?

[B]

As soon as I got there. So I was trying to line up a meeting with the. The investigation officer. So they were meant to come out the day that I arrived. So I got to the hotel at 10 o'. Clock. I'd organized an appointment at 11. They no word from them. And I said, all right, well, you obviously can't make this one. Can we make it 5 o'? Clock? No word. Then they sent me a message to say, we'll see you between 9 and 11pm and it's like, all right, I'll stay up. And so just kept searching myself. And then the second day they never showed up. Same again. And then the third day they showed up at. It was around 10, 11 o' clock p. M. That night and just sat there like they didn't want to be there. They were disinterested. There was two police officers. One guy went and had a walk around the cafe looking at the alcohol bottles that they've got there. So he was just like completely disinterested and just gave no respect to me or Dad. I offered them to take Mum and Dad's phone. I said, we can take you up to the room. No, no need. They literally said bugger all to me. And so it was at that point and like, me and dad had done quite a fair bit of searching between then. So when they did finally rock up, I managed to basically, I had a chat with a mate of mine that runs Panoptix Solutions. So Troy Glade, a CEO out there,

[A]

that's a security firm, is it?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So they helped me massively and still are. So just had a quick call to go, hey, what can I do here? So he's got an ex police officer, Ben Hoskins, with him and he basically taught me about, like, the search patterns that they do. So I was like, cool, I'll do that while I wait for the police.

[A]

Well, this is. You coincidentally have contacts in law enforcement. I mean, that's just. You just happen to be in that world. You're in military and so, yeah, you had access to friends who care about you and who wanted to give you the time and help in any way that they could. But so many people don't have that. And recently we were speaking to Paul Warren, whose daughter Ellie Warren was murdered in Mozambique. And I thought about you a lot in that conversation. Because he was talking about the problems with these jurisdictions. Trying to understand. Trying to go in with the best intentions yourself and work with them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And keep them engaged in the case. It can be impossible.

[B]

Yeah. And 100% found exactly the same. And not just us, like so many other families, like, we. Like, if it happens in Australia, you. You have enough trust and faith in the. In the police force to go. They will do everything they can.

[A]

That's our expectation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That we'll help them.

[B]

We'll.

[A]

Hey, whatever you need, I'll help you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not that you have to, like, drive them on.

[B]

Correct. Yeah. And what I found, like, for Mum's case, that that trust slowly gets broken down to a point where you go, holy shit, they're not doing anything here. I'm gonna have to do the bulk of it.

[A]

But I imagine at the same time you're thinking, I don't want to come across as an asshole, because then they'll be less interested in helping me.

[B]

Yeah, but, but, but there's. There's critical points along the way that get missed. And that's when, like, I found six cameras all around where they said mum was last seen. So I got those cameras. Some were private cameras, some were street cameras, some were businesses. I tried to get them myself and they said, unless you're a police officer, we can't give it to you, like, legally. And I said, no dramas. So went to the police and said, here's six cameras that surrounded where you said mum was. I said, if we get access to the footage, what we can actually do is identify which direction she was headed, like, who she was with. Was she there forcibly? Did she leave voluntarily, like, all of these?

[A]

And that's a race against time too, isn't it? Because these cameras are overriding 100%. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And that's what I mean about these critical points. So majority of the cameras are six weeks before they get overwritten. It was three months later where the police officer was finally directed to go door knock at someone's house that had a private camera, which the footage had already gone. And he knocked once and apparently they didn't answer. So that was him doing that check.

[A]

When I listen to your story, I get this growing sense of unease and fear that this isn't ineptitude on the part of the police. I start to feel like, is this just corruption? Are they. I don't think they're stupid.

[B]

It's a whole combination of things and you can only lead to. And I'm not saying they're corrupt or it's corruption at all. But you do have to start wondering like why aren't they still searching? Like there is a killer out there on the streets at the moment in Penang.

[A]

Also your mum had placed a call saying someone's trying to kidnap me.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, you would think that piece of evidence alone would warrant an investigation. She hasn't just gone missing, she hasn't just disappeared. She's tried to get help from her dad.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And all of that was ignored. The big thing that they got from searching Mum's room the first night that they came out to see dad at the hotel was there was they made up this story that there was a diary on mum's bedside table to say that me and her were involved in drugs.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

No. Yeah. In, in Australia and we were trying to escape a drug arrest that was seen by the investigation officer that can't read English, can't speak English and can't, can't translate or talk English. We had like a brilliant MP or former MP that was helping us, Frank Pangello. I reached out to him to go, mate, this, this is the next hurdle. So he got in touch with the assistant Police Commissioner. They printed out our, our police records to go. We've never been investigated, never had anything to do with drugs.

[A]

That's scary that they were dragging you into it by the way.

[B]

I've been accused for domestic violence against Mum and that was the reason why she ran away and went missing. Mum got accused of running away from the family. Like they said that she's obviously started another family. Said that she needed to escape us because she bought me a T shirt. And I've said this before, like parents should never purchase clothes for, for their children because she has got horrible taste and so she, she bought this T shirt. So Escape is a brand in Malaysia it's a butterfly farm. So she bought me this, this poo color orange T shirt with Escape on it. So when the police went through her thing she found, or they found that T shirt with Escape on it. So they said that that was a subliminal message that she was saying that she needed escape. The chief of police for the Penang district said that Mama just wandered into the bush. She must have had anesthetic which she didn't from the dentist, but it's obviously affected her brain. She's just walked into the, into the jungle. There's bananas and mangoes in there. So she'll be fine. She'll come out in a couple of days and it's like you're the, you're the chief of police, man. Like you're like you're the head guy for Penang and this is your assumption. Like this is.

[A]

And how old Was your mum?

[B]

65.

[A]

65 year old lady after a dental appointment and she'll be right in the jungle by herself because there's bananas and mangoes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Even if that was the case, which it wasn't, but even if it was, why not send some help, Go and get her. Yeah.

[A]

And also accused of drug trafficking. Like, is Malaysia a capital punishment country for drug trafficking?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So that's terrifying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Were you worried that they were going to try and fit you up for something if you didn't leave them alone?

[B]

Absolutely, absolutely. I do not trust that authority at all. They said that they'd set up this task force and we're doing all that we can. And what it was that I see now is they just tell the family and also the DFAT representatives, the High Commission, what they want to hear. So I was doing the investigation myself and I would collect everything and I would send it to the police to go. These are the police stations I was checking. So I asked them to do a simple task of can you just send out a. Be on the lookout, like gave him mum's picture, a bit of background for mum and I said, like, I've got it all here, can you just send it out to every police station? I said, administratively, that's too difficult. I said, but it's, it's one email to everyone. Or can you store it on a file where people can actually look at it? And they said no. So what I ended up doing is that was part of my search was when I did the searching, I'd check for hospitals, hotels, welfare shelters and police stations was one of them as well. There's also morgues, so unidentified body parts that just wash up on the, on the shoreline. And I was able to sift through them and just try and match body parts to mum again, considering.

[A]

And doing that for my mum is just unimaginable. That on one hand you're very focused, you're very task driven, obviously as a human being, but also this is the most important task of your life. So you're very methodical, but at the end of the day you're looking through records of body parts of other people who are unclaimed, which is heartbreaking in itself. But you're looking for your mum's body.

[B]

Yeah, that, that was a bit surreal. So, yeah, I kind of compartmentalized that a fair bit. Especially early days. Like I was walking through sewer drains. They've got the, the tsunami drains. So I went to Mr. DIY, which is like a bunnings, and just bought crowbars and, and stuff. And then I could actually lift some of the, the panels up so I can then get through. And the drains are disgusting. I swear there was rats in there that were doing bench press. They were huge. Yeah. But like I said, when you get thrust into the situation, do whatever it is that you have to do. So visiting those police stations, I was doing about 60 police stations and 60 hospitals per day. All of the things that you would again think a task force or a police force would be doing. We as a family had to then absorb that.

[A]

I guess you were thinking that maybe she's alive because the last thing you heard was someone's trying to kidnap me. And then as you learned and you taught me, there is these gangs have form for kidnapping older ladies to then go and act as house mothers for the women that they're trafficking. So were you thinking that, Were you thinking she's may well be here somewhere?

[B]

Well, you got to have that hope.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that, that's kind of what we, we clung to and knowing or learning about, you know, the, the kidnapping of older women to look after the young girls that get moved every 24 to 48 hours gave us a little bit of hope to say that, you know, we, she could still be alive out there. And that's, that was the reason why we did the. Be on the lookout.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To all the police stations in case, you know, she was walking down the street.

[A]

And what's the media like? Like again? I'm thinking in Australia we'd put her photo on every TV show, every newspaper, every, you know, do they have that sort of stuff?

[B]

Australia and Malaysia media weren't like. They were, they were good. And there was some reporters that were brilliant. But I got told probably after about a year that mum's story wasn't click worthy enough.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

To keep running a story. One of them just pulled me aside and said maybe like from the, from the editor. If she was younger, prettier, blonder, then it would justify continually running a story Malaysian media, because it would damage tourism. They were very quick to kind of bury it.

[A]

Do you speak Malay?

[B]

I can, yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that would help.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't speak it while I'm there.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because I can overhear the police talking.

[A]

Oh, wow. You don't want them to know, you understand?

[B]

So early days, the investigation officer was talking to another guy in his office and said that I give him a headache and he wished I would just go back to Australia and leave him alone because he was retiring soon and he doesn't need all of this drama.

[A]

So during the period of time where you're still searching for your mum, something else is going on in Penang and that is a development, A huge real estate development is happening behind the Turf Club, was it?

[B]

That's correct, yes.

[A]

It's on the edge of this neighborhood, this ritzy neighbourhood where the residents pay for protection. Yes. This big new development's going up. Yes. It's very important to Penang.

[B]

Yes, so I got told.

[A]

Yes. And, but during the land clearing, I guess in retrospect, is that, is that how you think your mum's remains were

[B]

first discovered during that land clearance in January 2020 is when they first discovered mum's remains. So according to the construction workers, the police were called, two police cars rocked up, they had two police officers with brown paper bags removed the remains, they were taken away and then mum's possessions were then moved to another. Another spot or the leftover was taken to another spot where they weren't building and just dumped. Yeah, they were buried.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And the project manager, and he admitted this in court, instructed everyone at the construction site to never mention it again.

[A]

Well, and you're right to point out, you know, that they were buried. I mean that's, that's worse than being dumped. This is actively hidden, attempted to actively hide them by burying them in the jungle.

[B]

Yeah. And they were told never to talk about it again. And the reason why they put it in an area where they weren't building is because under Chinese tradition, it's taboo to buy property that's had human remains or animal remains on it. So in order to protect the developers profits, that's, that's what they've done.

[A]

So, and, and they never wanted it to get out that for those reasons that remains were there.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

On this site. The police knowing full well that they have at least one missing person in that area. They have a guy who's being a headache from Australia who's chasing his mum who disappeared in this neighbourhood. They don't put those two things together. They don't actively say I wonder if this is Anna Jenkins or certainly they

[B]

do it officially, no. So still to this day I can't tell you exactly where mom's remains were first found. Like no investigation has ever been done and the police knowingly are aware of three human remains at that site. So that, to me says that it's potentially a dumping ground.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which then should mean that whole place should be a construction, a. A crime scene.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And a full search and a wider scene.

[A]

You know, like if there's three in that particular spot where they were digging to build, who knows what's in the forest.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Beyond.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And certainly the police never rang you and said, we've found some remains, we're investigating, they might be your mum. No, no, they were quiet about it.

[B]

Yep. Yep.

[A]

So how did you. How were you alerted eventually to the fact that these remains and these belongings had been found at this site?

[B]

Yep. So every time I go back, I always start my search in Penang and I always put up posters, I'd hand out flyers, put up stickers, I'll put banners in high traffic areas, especially around that area where they said that Mum was last seen, just to make sure that I haven't missed anything. So apparently the construction worker that eventually alerted us, he'd only just arrived at the site. He's a landscaper. He was there to do some work. He had a friend or a cousin that worked there and then they told him about the. The remains that were found, so he wanted to see them. So they dug it up and there was an appointment card for the dentist that was still wrapped up in. In Mum's possessions. And a couple of the. And a coccyx bone. He then took it back to his wife, who spoke English and so she typed it into Google and then all the reports came up. So he.

[A]

Social media, I'm gathering you probably had a Facebook page and all that stuff?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So he's saying the. The reward. So that's what he was chasing. So.

[A]

Well, that's what rewards are for, aren't they?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it worked. Not only did it work, but all that work you'd put in for three years.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So it was. It was validation that what we were doing was right. And it was validation that the Malaysian police have no interest in searching for Mum or doing anything for Mum. So everything, like, we're only here now because of what the family's done. Through the support of our friends. Our friends and family, not through any support of the Malaysian police.

[A]

And through this random tip off.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Were you in Malaysia at the time?

[B]

No.

[A]

No. I guess you ripped right over there.

[B]

Yep. So I'd. I'd just gotten back from a deployment in Iraq, so I was doing my decompression and, yeah, get this, this random message. The. The first thing I Did was just ask for more information, got some clarification and then I sent it straight through to DFAT in Canberra, who then passed it on to the High Commission. And I also had a direct link to the investigation officer. Thought it was a needle in a haystack that we'd found. However, they sat on it and did nothing. After 10 days, I finally got the construction worker with the project manager to come in, hand in the. The possessions. Plus there was one coccyx bone. So that was handed in on the 24th of June at 10 o'. Clock. That afternoon at 4 o', clock, they released a death certificate saying, yep, that's. That's Anna Jenkins.

[A]

From a bone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they haven't obviously had time to do DNA on it.

[B]

DNA testing was done three months later.

[A]

And did they issue a cause of death on that certificate?

[B]

Yep, Yep. So the cause of death was they. They call it like a sudden death or undetermined to say that she basically died of, of natural causes. And it's like. Well, like that in itself blows my mind and, and why people aren't jumping up and down to say, how can you, how can you release a death certificate on one co that you have no idea who it is?

[A]

No, I reckon all the way along they're just hoping, will this satisfy him?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Will this be enough? Will he go away now?

[B]

Yep, absolutely. Yeah. And, and we even said that, like, if, if we get a death certificate and a cause of death, like that's, that was going to be enough for us to actually then go, all right, well, how do we move forward with this?

[A]

Gotta be careful what you say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because some people see that as an opportunity. Okay, great. That's what he says he wants. Let's make it happen.

[B]

Yeah. So they close. I won't say close the case, but what they did was they stopped the investigation after that to go, well, we found the coccyx bone, we've said it to Mum, we've got some of her possessions, we're done here. And so it went straight to the courts, to the, the dpp, the deputy public prosecutor, to then basically push it through, to then go, yep, this, this case is closed. I was like, well, hang on a second.

[A]

Yeah, great news. No murder.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just a misadventure or whatever.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So I asked them about, like, doing further searches and they said no. And it was during the time of COVID So as soon as I got that message, I put in a, an application to, to go over. And again, the Malaysian side just dragged their feet on Getting me clearance to come in. So finally come in, had to do 16 days quarantine and then finally got released on the 29th of July. I got released at 10 o'. Clock. I went straight to meet the Australian High Commissioner or the High Commission representatives and then we went to have a meeting with the police. I've got the recording of it and it was, it was volatile. Like they were so argumentative and so aggressive towards me. Their main concern was I put something in about corruption in a, in a Facebook post and, you know, threatened that, you know, stuff like this can, can get an arrest. And so once we had that meeting, I asked to go and visit the site. They gave me three rules. So the first rule was I wasn't allowed to put it on social media that I was going out there. I wasn't allowed to tell the Malaysian media that I was heading out there and I wasn't allowed to take photos with the construction in the background. And that was that. Again, this was the chief of Police of the Penang district or the officer in charge of the Penang district who said that there is a potential that if I have the construction site in the background, the developer could lose a lot of money. That I guess was the first clear indicator that profit over life is what this Penang Police is all about.

[A]

Yeah, that's a priority for the Chief of Police.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So I finally went out there and within two minutes, like we parked, we walked in and I said, we found mum's possessions up there and it's like, cool. So I walked up there, found mum's shoe straight up and it's like, well, how, how is it that you've just argued with me during a meeting to say that you've done everything, you've done canine searches, you've done like literal scope the area, yet I find mom shoe. So I then take a step back and then I go down to like this little creek and then found more stuff from mum's purse. I was like, well what, what search have you guys actually done here? So then, so they called out the Penang Forensic Department, who were a joke in themselves. So they went out and just grabbed mum's shoe and it's like, shouldn't they have like gloves and stuff on so you can do a test? I was like, oh yeah. So then had to remind them to put gloves on like, like a guy from Australia with no forensic background.

[A]

It's embarrassing.

[B]

Yeah. So same again. After finding Mum Shu, I said this should now initiate another search of this whole area. Nope, they closed it again or they handed it over to the. The DPP again. I was like, are you going to do any searches? It's like, no, there's no need. I was like, all right. So then back to Mr. DIY. So I got myself a trowel, I got some gloves and a shovel and thought, I'll do it myself. It. The place just filled with butterflies. And as I said last time, like, I just looked at it and going, like, this place, like, it's full of pests as well, and it just filled, like, with these black and blue butterflies. And then, like. And I'm not into, like. Like, I'm. I'm a hardcore skeptic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

After all of this. So I don't believe in signs or anything like that. But then. But pretty much shortly after that is when I found parts of Mom's spine and got in touch with Troy Clayton at Panoptic and just Video called him and said, mate, like, he was a paramedic. I said, tell me that's not a rock. And then he had a look and said, no, mate, that's. That's a vertebrae. And it's like, boom, we've found. We found another nail in a haystack, which.

[A]

Well, you found part of your mum's body, correct?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel like it would be remiss of me not to mention that I know there are some Australian. A number of Australian families who are looking themselves for remains of the. A family member because for various reasons, the police have stopped looking. So I don't want to be too arrogant about our. How we deal with things in Australia and leave them out of the conversation, but, you know, when you talk to these people, we always think. Everyone listening thinks, yeah, but what if you find them? Like, are you sure you want to find them?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you've lived through both sides of this and you actually did found. Find your mum's remains.

[B]

Yeah. At the time, it was again, like, it was validation, but it was also. It was excitement in that. Like, I didn't think about the gravity of the situation until I think, eight days afterwards when it actually hit me because, like, whenever I go anywhere, I go at 100 mile an hour.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So from there it was like, all right. So I just marked that and it's like, well, if I found one, there's got to be more. So ended up finding, like, a skull fragment and also parts of Mum's fingers, and then straight on to the High Commission to say, hey, we need to get someone out here asap. Got in touch with the media, got in touch with the police. Took another eight days for the police

[A]

to do something to even start.

[B]

Yeah. Eight days later and it took me to threaten to go to the media. I threatened to go to the foreign Minister, to our Prime Minister, like threw out every name that I knew.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To say like, if this doesn't get sorted asap, I want like an actual forensic team to come down. So they finally sent down the, the Book of Demand forensic team, which is the, the capital, like the Federal forensic team to come down and they started doing their searching. So they searched for two days and ended up finding 34. All up between me and them, we found 34 bones and fragments, heartbreakingly. So I flew back on the second day because I had to get back to work because I'd run out of leave. They stopped the search as soon as I left the country. Their reasoning for that was from the Penang Forensic or the head of the Penang Forensic Department. They said they didn't want to keep searching in case their digging equipment found more evidence and the digging equipment damage it. Come on, bro, like come up, like give me a better excuse than that because you've now just devalued every archaeologist out there and got them out of a job. Like, it's just like the, the amount of effort they've put towards not searching.

[A]

Yeah. It's one of those, isn't it? Where you think if you'd put half as much effort into searching. Yeah, we would have been had this sorted years ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As you have into dodging it. So do you think, I mean, where do you think the rest of her remains are? Do you think, do you have any ideas about that? Do you think this was the crime scene where she died in this forest or.

[B]

No. So even a member of the forensic team said this is not her final resting place.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It happened away from here. But I can't, I physically can't get the police to do a search outside of that area where they're not building.

[A]

Have they accepted that she didn't die of natural causes? Have they accepted that this was most likely a homicide or.

[B]

We're still, we're still going through the coronal inquest because I suppose they could

[A]

say she wandered into the jungle and dropped dead right there.

[B]

And that's what they were claiming for quite a long time saying it was a sudden death. I had a post mortem done in South Australia and it confirmed that she had blunt force trauma to the skull at or around the time of her death.

[A]

Do they think that was around the time she disappeared?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So, so they don't think that she was kidnapped and living somewhere for a couple of years in between or.

[B]

No, no, the kidnapping, murder, it fits. Okay, yeah. It's a matter of trying to now get the police to agree with that.

[A]

And we do know again, from talking to other people, other families, that sometimes we think, well, why aren't the Australian Federal Police just walking in there and doing, Taking care of this and cracking the whip? Doesn't work that way, does it? They have to be invited in by the jurisdiction, is that right?

[B]

The, the case has to be open. There has to be a want from it as well. What does that mean? So, so Penny Wong, for instance, can easily speak to her counterpart and go, I want the Federal Police to come in and help. For whatever reason, she won't even mention Mum's name in public. I've asked her numerous times and, and I think that that's the, the key piece that people don't understand is like, you, you. And we were naive at the start, too, to think DFAT's going to help us. Of course, you imagine that, see that the High Commission, they've got this, they're all over it. But then when you, you start digging down the bones of it, they. They use this throwaway line that we're giving consular assistance to the family. And it's like, all right, well, what does that mean? And then you try. And I've tried to question them on it and they said, I've referred to the consular charter and all it says is give general assistance. I said, well, what does general assistance mean? Like, where's it actually written?

[A]

Well, you're very energetic in this space and we know that the way people deal with trauma like this is wildly different, varies wildly. Some people take to their bed when we never hear from them again. I can imagine a lot of people would have given up, would have backed off. I wonder if I might have. I think I try to prioritise things often and think, what is this costing me and the kids? And so I might have at some point thought, she's gone and that's all there is to it and I just have to get on with my life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you ever. Were you ever tempted? Did your sister and your dad ever say, greg, you know, we know what happened, we know all we're ever gonna know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it was, it was a conversation we had. I've got friends that disagree with how I'm going about it. It's like, yeah, cool, that's. It's not your journey. So, yeah, yeah. You can either talk to me or not talk to me. Like, it doesn't faze me, but, like, for me, like, the thing that sticks with me is the fact that I'm actually having tangible effect on not just Mum's case, but also I'm able to help other people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because if we just drop off, like early days, we, we would never have Mum's remains. We would never be in this position where we're in at the moment. We would never be able to help other families in this situation. So I guess for, for me and my sister, like, the mindset is, well, Mum can just be a statistic that no one gives a shit about, or we can actually do something that's tangible, that can. And Mum was huge, as I said before, like, on helping other people.

[A]

I was just thinking that it's actually very reflective of the way that she raised you.

[B]

Yeah. And so then we can now start having the same effect on, on other families and, and educate people to go, well, don't just rely on like the, the foreign police force, especially in Southeast Asia, because they'll protect face before they protect the individual.

[A]

So I'm sure for those families you are a godsend. But what is it costing you? Like, it's ongoing. I mean, you found your mum's remains six years ago. Now, where are you at now? You've mentioned that you're waiting for an inquest.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In Malaysia.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So what are you pushing for now? What do you want now?

[B]

So we just want the case to be investigated as a kidnap and murder.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The High Court judge made the recommendation, but from the Attorney General, the Malaysian Attorney General down have all said no. And I don't understand why they keep saying no. And so I'm going to head back to Malaysia to then put in another report for a complaint to go. Well, you should be doing a investigation for a. A kidnapping murder. If that means I have to put in a new police report to say Mum was kidnapped and murdered on this date and make it a fresh investigation, so be it. But I'm not going away until they actually do that investigation.

[A]

But why? Why? Honestly?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is this to make a point? To give them the shits? To beat them? Because, I mean, I don't tell me I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem to me like they're going to investigate it properly or certainly find out who killed your mum.

[B]

Yeah. So it's twofold. So the first one is, obviously we want answers for Mum, but secondly, like, if we just roll over now, then what's the point. What was the point of the last eight years? It would have been for nothing. And it then sets the precedence for anyone else that's stuck in this situation to say, well, it's okay for the police not to do anything. It's okay for the Malaysian police to just ignore families. That's not something that sits right with me. And that's why I keep pushing, is because, one, we're getting those little victories. And it means that, like, someone has to be held accountable for not doing an investigation. Like, that's what they get paid to do. That's what they're there to do. And not just those. Like, every police force in every country should be acting the same when it's a foreigner that goes missing and gets reported as a kidnapper murder. So for us just to sit on our hands, to go, well, we're not getting anywhere, that just proves them right to say that they can continue doing what they're doing. And it's not. And we're such a stubborn family.

[A]

Yeah, I can see. But also, you know, our government, we have a certain. That I think has a lot to answer for in this situation as well.

[B]

Absolutely. So take Mum's name out of it. This is now an Australian citizen in another country that's just getting treated like

[A]

shit, talking about the pressures. I mean, there'd be God knows how many deals between Australia and Malaysia about God knows how many things from defence to commercial deals, all that kind of stuff. So that would play into it too, wouldn't it?

[B]

Absolutely, yeah.

[A]

So your little tiny mum is just potentially sort of lost in the middle of all of these huge powers, governments, corporations.

[B]

Yeah, lost a voice. And we commonly say that with victims of crime, especially overseas, like, over time, their voice just gets drowned out by all these other competing priorities like trade, like. And it's like this has got nothing to do with politics. It's got nothing to do with anything else other than like, an Australian citizen was murdered in another country. And also the Fisk family. So Mr. David Fisk, his partner and his partner's daughter were bound, gagged and murdered in the Philippines. And I've been helping that family as much as I can. So we've, both of us have been trying to change the Victims of Crime Act. So any Australian citizen that is a victim of crime overseas, they don't get any access to any support networks or anything like that. The only time you do is if you're arrested for a drug crime and you're facing 20 or more years in an international prison. Then you get, you know, Moses, parts of C for you. So we've been trying to change the Victims of Crime Act.

[A]

You are an incredible mix of energy, intellect and experience. As we were saying earlier, you've had experience in the military, you know, people with, you know, backgrounds that can be helpful. So, yeah, you are placed, perfectly placed, to actually write about this, talk about this and this terrible thing that's happened to your family. For you are the one person maybe in the world who can turn this into something that really changes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What changes things.

[B]

An individual is strong, but, like, combined with other people, you have strength.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I think that's, that's important, especially with that True Crime committee or community.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also like the other people that have gone through situations like this. Like, that's how you're going to get some movement within these areas, whether it's the Australian government or an international government. But again, doing nothing will get nothing. It is costing us. But I'm doing things on the side that helps for me mentally. So I do a lot of work overseas. On my break, I like to fly to other countries to help other families that are too scared to fly to those countries. And helping in that space, like I said, the, the coffee business, it's got

[A]

your mum and dad on the packaging.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

If you're listening to this on a. On the podcast, you should check it out on video on YouTube, because I can show you the packaging for Code Black.

[B]

Yeah. So it's, it's called, frankly, Roasted. So dad was Frank, mum was Anna, and so I just combined, frankly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The idea is like, we've, we've got four brands and it's to help the ADF veterans, it's to help the first responders, and the key one there is also the victims of crimes and their families to basically help support where there is none. So all the proceeds from that go to supporting them. That's something that I can jump into, but it's also something where I can get other people that are struggling to then jump in and help as a way to kind of decompress and escape from the world and go, you know what, let's, let's, let's just sell coffee beans or let's do something to kind of get your mind off it.

[A]

Something else to focus on.

[B]

Yeah, correct.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you were. I know you were traveling back and forth between Australia and Malaysia for, was it years?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, I mean, you still are, but I mean, in the active search for your mum.

[B]

Yeah. So I'd go for about four weeks. I'd come back, have a quick rest and then. And then take off again. So I think the first three years I did about 60 trips.

[A]

All self funded, by the way.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Last I knew, you'd spent over $800,000.

[B]

Yeah. So with the, with the court fees, I think we're up about 1.4.

[A]

Whoa, double that already?

[B]

Yeah. Like, I'm suing for negligence and I've got a concurrent case of the Corona Linkst to find out the cause of death.

[A]

I think this is your military mindset. It's like you're not wasting time wishing things were different. You're like, well, this is how it is and I need to figure out, strategize how to operate within what is correct.

[B]

I hate the phrase it is what it is. So I normally work out it is what it is, and then I just throw everything else on top of that and surround it and go, all right, now that's what it is.

[A]

If you need support after listening to this podcast, you can call Lifeline on 131114 or contact 1-800-Respect on 1-800-737-732 or 1-800-Respect. Org AU. Indigenous Australians can contact 13 Yarn on 139276 or 13yarn.org AU.

[B]

The producers have been this podcast recognise the traditional owners of the land on which it's recorded. They pay respect to the Aboriginal elders past, present and those emerging.