The Unsolved Death of Elly Warren in Mozambique

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Australian True Crime

Episode: The Unsolved Death of Elly Warren in Mozambique

Host: Meshel Laurie
Guest: Paul Warren (father of Elly Warren, author of Hunting Ellie’s Killer)
Release Date: June 28, 2026

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Overview of the Episode

This episode focuses on the unsolved 2016 death of 20-year-old Australian Elly Warren, found under suspicious circumstances in the coastal village of Tofo, Mozambique. Host Meshel Laurie speaks with Elly’s father, Paul Warren, who discusses his years-long campaign for answers, the frustrating failures of both Mozambican and Australian authorities, key findings from multiple autopsies and inquests, and his beliefs about what happened to his daughter. He also reflects on grief, the limits of justice, and moments of comfort experienced since her death.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Who Was Elly Warren?

• Elly described as adventurous, confident, and passionate about marine biology and scuba diving.
  • “She was unbelievable as a baby. She was hard to deal with even then... stuck up for herself. She was really confident about anything and everything.” (Paul, 01:12)
• First trips to Africa inspired her lifelong love of travel and wildlife.
• Known for easily making friends and being deeply outgoing.
  • “She wouldn't stop talking… nobody else get a word in because Ellie was talking about her dives.” (Paul, 02:36)

2. Setting: Tofo, Mozambique

• Small, picturesque fishing village, popular with young adventurous travelers.
• “The locals are lovely, really… But anybody from overseas, they think you’re rich… But they were nice, you know, they were all very good.” (Paul, 03:30)

3. Timeline of Elly’s Final Night

• Dropped at backpackers’ lodge, left luggage, went out with friends to bars and a party.
• Multiple witnesses confirm she was not drunk, responsible with diving commitments next day.
  • “She had a large 2-litre bottle of water. She was very responsible. She wasn’t silly.” (Paul, 05:27)
• Last seen alive around 11pm at Victor’s Bar, then disappeared.
  • “Ali said, 'Oh, hi, I’ve been looking for you.' And Jade said, 'Where have you been?'… That was the last time they saw her.” (Paul, 07:08)
• Found dead near a toilet block, hours later by a fisherman at around 5am.

4. Discovery & Initial Handling of the Body

• Fisherman found Elly’s body, feared being blamed and initially did not alert authorities.
• Seen in two distinct positions: initially lying face down, later repositioned to what was described as a "Muslim prayer position" (child’s yoga pose).
  • “Ali was in a Muslim prayer position at that stage.” (Paul, 09:18)
• Distressing details: found partially clothed, with mouth full of sand.

5. Failures and Contradictions in Official Investigations

• Multiple autopsies: Mozambique, South Africa, Melbourne.
• Mozambique’s autopsy indicated violent death (homicide), “abundance of sand found in the airways.”
  • “The Mozambique autopsy originally said violent death homicide.” (Paul, 12:22)
• Police initially (months later) declared overdose, despite no evidence.
  • “The first police report was overdose. I was furious.” (Paul, 12:50)
• South African autopsy toxicology: no drugs, confirming homicide.

6. Australian Authorities’ (AFP, DFAT) Response

• Australian Federal Police (AFP) declined to intervene directly, citing jurisdiction.
• “They said they can’t get involved with the Mozambique investigation… what they didn’t tell me was that there is a mutual assistance request that the AFP can put in if it’s classified a crime.” (Paul, 14:07–14:15)
• No such request was ever made, even years later.
  • “No. They haven’t even done that today.” (Paul, 14:28)

7. Frustrations with the Victorian Inquest

• Inquest delayed, crucial witnesses (including private investigator and radiologist) were not called.
  • “There was bias… the coroner… can dictate the terms… he’s in charge. You don’t have a say.” (Paul, 21:31)
• Contradictory autopsy results: Melbourne autopsy initially found “no sand,” but radiology later revealed considerable sand present.
  • “The family was shocked to see so much sand inside Ellie… Why didn’t he find it?” (Paul, 19:11)

8. Evidence Mishandling

• Tampon (potential sexual assault evidence) discovered in South Africa, lost before Melbourne autopsy.
  • “They said it’s lost, we don’t know where it is.” (Paul, 19:54)
• Several signs suggesting violent struggle; no evidence collected from fingernails.

9. Suspicions and Theories About the Crime

• Paul believes motive was sexual assault, although absence of definitive evidence precludes formal declaration.
  • “I think the motive is sexual assault. That’s what I think.” (Paul, 15:27)
• No witnesses have been charged or brought to trial; ongoing investigation by private detectives in Mozambique has made little progress.

10. Impact on the Family & Role of Grief

• Paul articulates years of frustration, grief, and the cost—emotional and financial—of seeking answers.
• Discusses encounters with spiritualism and seeking comfort through signs from Elly.
  • “On Good Friday, 2019… my keys started going nuts in the door… two pictures flew off the desk… I was flabbergasted… I just froze… Ellie would be happy to know, now that I know that she’s still with me.” (Paul, 31:39–34:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Anybody from overseas, they think you’re rich… But they were nice, you know, they were all very good.” (Paul, 03:30)
• “She wasn’t silly… She’s very responsible.” (Paul, 05:27)
• “There wasn’t really a homicide investigation done at all.” (Paul, 16:08)
• “If I had my time over again, I wouldn’t have [an inquest].” (Paul, 21:26)
• “The cause of death was what we wanted and we wanted manner of death… That’s what the coroner’s court basically does.” (Paul, 23:57)
• “We weren’t allowed the witnesses that we wanted.” (Paul quoting another family, 26:08)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:12] — Paul describes Elly’s personality, passions, and early travels.
• [03:01] — Description of Tofo village context and local attitudes to tourists.
• [04:28–07:11] — Reconstruction of Elly’s movements on the night of her death.
• [07:39–09:18] — Discovery of body, initial police response, unusual body positions.
• [12:13–13:23] — Contradictory autopsy results; police mishandling.
• [14:07–14:28] — Australian police and diplomatic inaction explained.
• [16:19–18:14] — Early realizations of investigative failures; Paul resolves to investigate himself.
• [19:00–20:38] — Discussion of lost forensic evidence (tampon) and implications for the case.
• [21:26–21:49] — Reflections on the (dis)appointments of the inquest process.
• [31:39–34:37] — Paul recounts the “supernatural” experience that gave him comfort.

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Additional Resources

• Book: Hunting Ellie’s Killer: A Father’s Relentless Pursuit of Justice by Paul Warren
• Website: ellywarren.net — repository for case updates, timelines, evidence, and advocacy.
• Support contacts (Australia):
  • Lifeline: 13 11 14
  • 1800Respect: 1800 737 732
  • 13Yarn (support for Indigenous Australians): 13 92 76

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Tone and Closing Thoughts

The episode balances clinical recounting of evidence with personal, grieving reflections. Paul Warren’s persistence and heartbreak are ever-present, and the podcast underscores the complexity, pain, and bureaucratic stagnation families face when Australians die violently overseas.

Meshel Laurie, as host, expresses empathy and frustration, echoing the audience’s likely outrage at official inaction. The closing minutes offer a somber yet hopeful meditation on memory, spirit, and the enduring love of a parent.

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Transcript

[A]

Ten years ago, 20 year old Ellie Warren was found dead in a coastal village in Mozambique under circumstances that remain deeply contested. In the years since, her father, Paul Warren has spent his life savings and travelled across continents in a relentless search for the truth, uncovering alleged failures by authorities along the way. He's written a book about it called Hunting Ellie's Killer and he joins us to share the story of his ongoing fight for justice. This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung People of the Kulin Nation and a warning. This episode of the podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence. Who was Ellie Warren? Tell us about your girl, your adventurous girl. I have 16 year old twins and I often think to myself, imagine them going overseas without me, like how what a weird feeling, what a great feeling, but what a scary feeling. And she was particularly adventurous, your Ellie, wasn't she?

[B]

Oh, she certainly was. She was unbelievable as a baby. She was hard to deal with even then, you know, at the start. But things happened at school. She stuck up for her herself. She was really confident about anything and everything. So as life progressed, her first real trip to Africa was with her mother, Tanzania and all those parts of Africa and she loved it. That's where she fell in love with Africa. Then she went on trips after that to Central America. She was diving the Bleeze Hole. She loved diving and scuba diving with the marine biology that she was doing. What she would do is do three job, save up as much as possible to go on her next adventure, you know, and she's doing all this while she's at school, Some of it, you know, like she's only 16, 17.

[A]

That's what you want for your kids, isn't it, for them to find their passion. I feel like once they've got their passion, you know how to support them, you know how to help them sort of leap into adulthood.

[B]

Well, going back a little bit, Nicole was actually a vet nurse, her mother and she used to bring all the animals home, you see the sick animals and Ally would give them a syringe of milk and look after them. So that's where the love of, of animals eventually came from, from that she

[A]

seemed to make friends easily too. I've seen people talk about her from Mozambique, people that she was volunteering with. Really popular girl.

[B]

Oh yeah, she was out there, she loved it and she wouldn't stop talking. Like Jade o', Shea, one of the ladies that worked at Casey Barry as a bartender said that she would get back from the dives and nobody else get a word in because Ellie was talking about her dives, you know.

[A]

What's Kayce Berry? That's the. Is it like a backpackers there?

[B]

No, that's quite a nice place. It's sort of in between in a way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it is still huts.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Because I didn't know a lot about Mozambique either but I was watching your 60 minutes from years and years ago and they were. Is it Tufo?

[B]

Tufo, yeah.

[A]

Tufo is the name of the town.

[B]

It's a fishing. Small fishing village.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's near Innz, which is a bigger town and it's got an airport. It's a 20 minute drive from Inzimbabm that's where the Zenik main police criminal police were.

[A]

Yeah, Very beautiful place. Seemed very friendly and welcoming to the young tourists.

[B]

Look, the locals are lovely really. I got along really well with the locals. But you see, the thing is anybody from overseas, they think you're rich and they're all in on trying to get as much as they can out of you, really. But they were nice, you know, they were all very good.

[A]

I've been to lots of places like that where you are conscious that people are very friendly and I'm very friendly. But there is this elephant in the room which is my obvious, you know, like I'm there because I've been able to pay.

[B]

You still gotta be weary, I suppose. Yeah. But Ellie dropped her guard a bit because she loved was her element over there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she was just, you know, that last couple of days she was obviously just at the wrong place at the wrong time, you know.

[A]

Well, that's it. She was really about to come home, wasn't she? She was a couple of days off her flight home.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So what's your understanding of that? Last night? As I say, I've read various reports from coroner's reports to news reports to witness reports. But in the end, what do you think happened?

[B]

I think the best understanding comes from Jade o', Shea, her friend. And it's in transcript in the inquest. They dropped her off at the backpackers in Jake's car. Ellie couldn't get out quick enough because she wanted to go with her friends. You know, Johan, the manager there said he didn't even see her go. She didn't check in but she left her luggage in the dorm where she was sitting sleeping that night and she was off and she went to Victor's bar where she was dancing and having a good Time with her friends. Now, the thing is, you've got to remember is Ellie was diving the next day. She was very responsible with her diving, so she wouldn't have been drinking much. And there's a photo of her, which was at the inquest that the coroner got at Casey Barry before they went to the lodge with a big, large 2 litre bottle of water. Yeah.

[A]

The Victorian coroner, who sort of ended up looking at all the information and we'll certainly talk more about that. They. The coroner said that they believed that she may have had one or two drinks. They accepted that she was not drunk.

[B]

Well, look, I'm not gonna say she didn't have anything to drink. Yeah, right. She obviously had a couple of drinks. Yeah. But then later on, at 11 o' clock that night, she went to get her mobile phone from Casey Barry and the waiter there said that Ali had a bottle of water in her hand. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, she was very responsible. She wasn't silly.

[A]

Cause somebody else later on, another witness claimed to have seen her very, very late, like early in the morning, sort of two or three or something in the morning. I believe she was very drunk.

[B]

We established that that wasn't true.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yep. That was from a security guard, but it was pitch black. He couldn't even tell what that person was wearing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the coroner just dismissed that straight away.

[A]

But the frustration of having witness accounts that don't make sense with the broader story. That don't. And. But they have to be investigated. They have to be.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you see, what she did was when she. When she went to the Victor's Bar, they were invited out to a party to a friend's place and they went there and they were having cocktails that night because the beers were warm. Ellie only drunk beer because there was no electricity. The electricity was off. Electricity's bad. On and off there all the time. And Jade even said Ellie wouldn't drink a warm beer, you know, so she had basically nothing there. And then she went to get her phone and then she came back along the beach and Jade and Nat were a bit concerned about Ellie, so they went back to Victor's bar and it was about 11 o' clock that night and Ali said, oh, hi, I've been looking for you. And Jade said, oh, where have you been? We've been looking for you. And next minute Jade said, oh, I think Allie went to the bar to get a drink and that was the last time they saw her. Now, that's not like Allie, because Allie is big with friends.

[A]

Also, she said, I've been looking for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I found you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's gone to the bar and then not come back. Nobody saw her after that. Victor had closed the bar and gone to the girls, and the girls wanted to go to the toilet. So they went over the position where Allie's body was found the next morning.

[A]

And she wasn't there then?

[B]

She wasn't there then? No.

[A]

So what time was that? About midnight, probably.

[B]

About midnight, yeah.

[A]

So then the next thing we know is that about 5:00am, a fisherman.

[B]

Well, what happened with the fishermen was to get the salt water out of their motors, they bring their motors up and they put them in a bin with fresh water to flush the motors. And you can see in some of the photos, there's a bin near the toilet block where they do that. He said that he saw a dark shadow of something in the distance. And he walked up and he saw it was the body of a. Of a lady. So he took the photo at that particular time at 5am in the morning. But he didn't tell anybody because he was really scared because he found the body, that they were gonna blame him.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So he took a photo, he ran down the beach, but he ran into George Venter, who was a top business owner over there and had Ellie on his boat. And he was hysterical, this fisherman talking to George Venter. He told him to calm down, blah, blah, blah. He said, don't worry, I'm here, your police won't blame. So they went back and that was probably about 5:30. And when they got back, the police arrived. George told them to rope off the area, don't let anybody in. And that's as much as I know about that. At that point in time, Ellie is

[A]

lying face down, or her face is actually twisted slightly to the right side, but.

[B]

Well, the chin's on top of the sand, really. Her hands are there. She's not. Her head's not embedded into the cell at all.

[A]

No, no, no. But she's on her tummy. Her legs are slightly splayed. She has no clothes on her bottom half of her body. Her underpants are sort of around her knee. But then officially, then how do we get this other position? What happened?

[B]

Well, what happened was the next morning, then at 6am, the same morning that she's found.

[A]

You mean when police are all there? Yeah.

[B]

The business owners were really concerned and she wanted to find out who it was, so. Cause they were being there years and years and years. So they knew the police. And he let her cross the line to see if she could identify who it was. And Ali was in a Muslim prayer position at that stage.

[A]

It's interesting, when I first read that, I was like, what? I don't know what a Muslim prayer position is. But then when I saw the photos and that, I thought, oh, in my world, that's like a yoga pose. That's a child's pose. So some of our listeners will think of it that way, where you're on your knees, your forehead, say, is on the ground and your arms are stretched out in front of you.

[B]

Yep, that's correct, yeah. So what basically happened was the phone call from Christy to tell me that Ellie's dead, which was. She was screaming on the other end of fire. You didn't even know it was her. It was amazing. Then Nicole got on the phone and said, we've just heard that somebody's died over in Mozambique and there's not a lot of Australians over there. And, you know, chances of it being Ellie are probably very high. I go, oh, God. She said, I'm. I'm just waiting on confirmation from dfat. Ten minutes later, the phone rang again. Paul, Ali's gone. It's Allie for sure. Oh, I was just a mess.

[A]

Unbelievable.

[B]

Sam with me at the time and I just didn't know what to think. No, you get this sort of dread, this down feeling about you. Then you start thinking about good times and you start thinking, ellie's not going to walk through my door ever again, you know, I'm not going to see her ever again. It was devastating, you know, and then friends came over and then somebody looked after Sam. Then straight after that, I contacted DFAT myself and I said, I want to go over there and get Ali's body. And then DFAT sent us a report from the honorary council. There was one thing in that report that really stuck in my mind. The witness who identified Ellie when the main investigating team turned up at 9am, said that Ali, he found it very strange that Ellie's mouth was full of sand.

[A]

That's the first time you heard that?

[B]

That's the first time I heard it. So I went over to South Africa and bought Ellie's body. Now, viewing Ellie's body was a nightmare. I don't recommend it to any family. It is shocking.

[A]

Well, and also.

[B]

So why autopsy photographs? So that's basically what you're looking at, but a real body, you know.

[A]

Well, the body of your child.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

That's what you were looking at.

[B]

I was there with my sister, my Sister went in first and said, paul, I don't think you want to go. Said, I have to. So I did go in and I took a snip of Ali's hair because I thought that would be important. Nicole and her grandmother would like that.

[A]

So why was her body moved from Mozambique to South Africa?

[B]

Well, what had happened was the South African funeral parlor guy, obviously he's had experience before with foreigners.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He recommended that we have a autopsy in South Africa due to the fact that the Mozambique autopsy could miss things. The Mozambique autopsy originally said violent death homicide.

[A]

That's right, yes.

[B]

And it said abundance of sand found in the airways.

[A]

Yes. Now, but at the same time, is this correct, that the autopsy. The forensic pathologist said homicide, but the police initially said overdose, drug overdose.

[B]

That happened later. That was on the 6th of April 2017. The first police report was overdose. I was furious.

[A]

And I mean, they had no toxicology report.

[B]

They had no toxicology, no facts whatsoever.

[A]

No.

[B]

Right, yeah.

[A]

But they were able to ascertain that there was no drugs.

[B]

The South African autopsy did a toxicology results all negative. The DFAT sent a message to the Mozambique police who issued that report, said that. Have you looked at your own autopsy report? It says violent death homicide.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Four days later, on the 10th of April, they send out an official report saying it's now a homicide. You go and work that out. I was furious and I was furious with the AFP because they were misleading the family. Because they were saying that they were doing a proper investigation. How can they be doing a proper investigation if they say it's an overdose? And then four days later, because we told them to look at their autopsy, that it's a homicide. I had a meeting with the AFP on the 19th of December 2016. They came to my home and they told me the autopsy, Mozambique autopsy, conclusion that was a violent death homicide. They said they can't get involved with the Mozambique investigation. Cause it's not. It's their jurisdiction.

[A]

Yeah. Unless the Mozambique authorities invite them to ask them to.

[B]

They said that the coroner will probably make a decision in chambers.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

That didn't happen. And with the jurisdiction part, what they didn't tell me was that there is a mutual assistance request that the AFP can put in if it's classified a crime.

[A]

Yep. Did they do that?

[B]

No, no. They haven't even done that today. They haven't even sent that in.

[A]

That is, I think, shocking to Australians to know. And you're not, unfortunately, the first person to tell us this shocking detail that if we lose a loved one. If a loved one either goes missing or dies of violence overseas, it's not automatic that Australian authorities will get involved, represent us and get involved in the investigation.

[B]

No, it's because it's the afp. It can be a diplomatic thing. So diplomatically they can't expose another country's authorities.

[A]

Yeah, well, they don't want it to, that's for sure.

[B]

How often do the AFP expose another country's authorities?

[A]

Yeah, no, they don't like to.

[B]

They don't.

[A]

No, they can't. Reading the inquest report, there was a moment where they were talking about sexual assault and whether or not they could tell if there'd been a sexual assault. And they said for various reasons they felt they couldn't. And one of the reasons was that been two autopsies by the time it got here, so. And I thought, God, what a thing for a father to read.

[B]

Yeah, well, I think the motive is sexual assault. That's what I think.

[A]

Yeah, I think we all think that. I mean, again, it's difficult cause there's no specific evidence to that. But, you know, she is a young woman, she's found with her clothes torn apart.

[B]

Yeah, that's the marks and abrasions on her face. You know, like my sister when she viewed dividing in South Africa, she said, paul, there's no question. Ali struggled.

[A]

I said, yeah, what I was missing was fingernails. Anything under her fingernails. Evidence.

[B]

Interesting because at the inquest, Nicole and Ellie's stepfather David, asked that of the AFP guy and he had no idea.

[A]

Yeah, I found some really interesting basics

[B]

like that missing, that was never done. And even Charlie Benzene later on said, oh, look, the investigation was terrible, shocking, shocking. There wasn't really a homicide investigation done at all.

[A]

How long did it take for you to realise that you had to start investigating this yourself? You've got Ellie home. It's all the shock, the initial shock of it all. And I'm sure you had a funeral and all that, but when did you start to feel let down by the investigation and feel like you had to do it?

[B]

Well, I'd rung Dr. Klepp on the 20th of November.

[A]

This is our South African forensic pathologist.

[B]

Yeah, South African. When I got back from bringing Ali's body back and she told me over the phone, she said, paul, Allie's airways were packed with sand.

[A]

Her words were, chock a block, chock a block. The sand was of a certain colour. It was white sand. Right. The very light coloured sand that's on the beach there. But in town, just back from the beach and certainly around the toilet block where Ellie's remains were found is very dark brown.

[B]

Very dark brown.

[A]

Dirty.

[B]

Yeah. That's where they did all their washing. Cause that was the only tapping. Tufo. Freshwater tap.

[A]

So it's very clear she didn't inhale that sand there when she found. Oh, no.

[B]

But there's no way her head was on top of the sand when she was found. No way it happened there.

[A]

So that gives us the impression that that inhalation of an enormous amount of sand in her mouth and down her windpipe happened somewhere else, probably the beach.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I think even if you are absolutely off your tits on that beach and somehow fell over and passed out and inhaled all that sand, how did you get from there to the town, to the toilet block? Surely no one's suggesting that she could walk there like that or.

[B]

But you see, at the inquest, I said to the coroner, there's New Year's Eve parties, people are passing out everywhere. But since there's been deaths, there's no recorded death of any teenager, Nobody falling over and packing their airways full of sand.

[A]

No, it is not with the marks

[B]

and bruises around the lips and the cheeks.

[A]

Not anywhere.

[B]

Come on. It's just ridiculous.

[A]

Talk to us about the process of getting an inquest in Victoria.

[B]

Well, I had. You have to apply for it through the Coroner's court. I put an application in for it, which took forever. They just. I don't know, they just. They just delay, delay, delay. And it's just annoying. And the same with the afp. Delay, delay.

[A]

The pathologist who did the autopsy in Melbourne, Dr. Lynch, his findings were essentially. What was the cause of death? It was undetermined.

[B]

Undetermined, yes. Correct. This is what got me to start my investigation, was the contradictions between the Mozambique autopsy, South African autopsy, were all about the packed sand.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yet he found no sand.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

How's that possible? But the radiology report, which is in

[A]

the same building, came out of the

[B]

same building, was done by the CT scan. So everybody gets a CT scan.

[A]

The Melbourne Network.

[B]

Yeah. So that generates the radiology report from that CT scan. Now, that was taken just before Dr. Lynch did his autopsy report. Yeah, his autopsy on Ellie. Then he says at a meeting he found no sand whatsoever. Then the radiology report comes out in 2019, and we were shocked, the family was shocked, to see so much sand inside Ellie. Why didn't he find it? Then he goes to us. I sent a letter to Mr. Bracken on 10 September 2019, saying, where's the tampon? Why haven't we, you know, why haven't you analyzed the tampon for DNA? They said it's lost, we don't know where it is.

[A]

So the tampon, we should say, was first, I believe, first noted by Dr. Klepp in South Africa.

[B]

Yes, that's right.

[A]

So it wasn't picked up in the Mozambique autopsy. The lady.

[B]

It was still in Ellen's body.

[A]

That's what I mean. But they didn't make any note about it, didn't notice it. So when Ellie makes it to South Africa, and Dr. Klepp is excellent, she finds it, she removes it, she bags

[B]

it up as evidence and she clarifies that Ellie had a menstrual cycle at the time.

[A]

Yes. And of course, again, her point is that if we're looking for evidence of a sexual assault, this has potentially got some.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

But she just sends it forward.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it's lost.

[B]

What she does is she put it in a plastic bag and she put it in with the organs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. Because they remove all the organs and they put them back inside the body for preparation for Melbourne. Then Dr. Lynch examines the bags and whatever. Well, he's meant to anyway. But in a supplementary report he says he may have missed the tampon.

[A]

Right.

[B]

How is that possible? I don't know.

[A]

I don't know. But that is what it is. And again, it's another problem in determining sexual assault as a motive. Inquests I find often disappointing. I have to say, no matter what the outcome, I feel like families are hoping for the best. And it's such an enormous amount of work to get an inquest to make it happen such a long time, you pin your hopes on it and I find they're often disappointing.

[B]

I pushed and pushed and pushed for an inquest. If I had my time over again, I wouldn't have one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I thought there was some good things that came out in the inquest, but I felt there was bias situation with the coroner. And the coroner, in a way, can dictate the terms because he's in charge. People gotta understand he's in charge of the inquest. You don't have a say.

[A]

No.

[B]

Right. As the family, he's in charge of the witnesses right now, he didn't want a lot of the relevant witnesses, but at a hearing in 20, 23, in February, he goes to the family and everybody. Oh, there's a lot of gaps in the evidence. Right. But one of the most relevant witnesses and we were shocked. My barrister and my lawyer were shocked. He didn't want the radiologist at the inquest as a witness. Then Mr. Roos, Francois Roos, who was the private detective for Nicole. Right. He reopened the case in 2021 and he got a lot of evidence. He was working with the Mozambique police and he had already given a report on 2019 to Mr. Bracken. So he's a credible witness. Yet Mr. Cain goes, oh, well, we haven't got anything on the Mozambique investigation. We haven't got their file. We wanted Mr. Ruse as a witness because he was hands on over there, experienced, knowing exactly what's going on. And he said no, he didn't want him. And then we wanted Charlie Benzino, who had given a report to the coroner saying that he would classify this as a homicide unless proven otherwise. So these are really important witnesses that you need to have at the inquest.

[A]

Well, I suppose it depends on our hair out the outcome that you're after. What was the outcome that you were hoping for? I guess if the crime happens in Australia, oftentimes, most times people are hoping to then be able to go to trial because they haven't been able to do that yet. So they're hoping the coroner can kick up some new evidence and that'll move everything forward. But what were you hoping for?

[B]

Well, we were in limbo because we didn't even have a cause of death. But you know, if he had, if Dr. Lynch had a run Dr. Klepp back then and found out about all the packed sand and everything, he would have had a cause of death in 2016 because they would have talked to one another. But he didn't even do that.

[A]

But you.

[B]

The cause of death was what we wanted and we wanted manner of death. There's two things and that's what the coroner's court basically does, cause and manner of death.

[A]

It does. But as I say, for families in this situation where the crime has happened in Australia, usually the point of getting, of ascertaining those two things is to then try and move it forward into a criminal court. Right. Is that what you're hoping? Are you hoping to be able to move this into a criminal court in Mozambique at some point? Or I guess what I'm asking is, do you think that's actually a believable outcome in this case?

[B]

There's a slight hope, yeah. Yeah. With the circumstance. See, it's very difficult because. Excuse me, it's Mozambique. Yeah. And what do you do? It's overseas. Mr. Van Square Roos, who opened the Investigation was working with the new detective from Zenic Criminal Police over there. They went to Truffaut to get more evidence on these people who they suspected at the time. So they were on the trail of these people, but unfortunately they just haven't got enough evidence to convict them.

[A]

And when was this?

[B]

End of 2021. Nearly 22.

[A]

God, that's still a long time ago again, though, isn't it? This is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This moves, this entire investigation process, it just moves at a snail's pace, doesn't it?

[B]

Oh, it's shocking.

[A]

It's 10 years ago. You lost your.

[B]

I know. It's a decade, nearly a decade. The 9th of November would be 10 years.

[A]

Anne, I can understand why people would be saying to you and your ex wife, Ellie's mum, you've got to let it go. I can understand why people would think for you, for your health, mental health, for your life, for all that, you've got to let it go. Because it's so slow. You make the tiniest bit of progress every couple of years.

[B]

It feels like at least we got the cause of death from the inquest. But what do you do now? It was interesting because I was watching Channel Nine news in June 2023, and a lady and a man came out from the Coroner's court and this lady was interviewing them and she said, were you happy with the findings? She said, no.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I mean. I've never known anyone to be happy.

[B]

She said, why? And she said, we weren't allowed the witnesses that we wanted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I realised we would do the same thing was happening to Ali's family, but it was worse for Ali's family. My lawyer and my parents couldn't believe that we weren't allowed to have the witnesses we wanted. Now, Mr. Cain said he only wanted one AFP person. So the AFP stepped in here and they put a commander on the witness stand that wasn't even involved with the case back in 2016. He'd only been involved with the case for a year and a half. So we asked him questions about 2016. I wasn't there. I can't recall. I wasn't there. I can't recall.

[A]

So why are you here?

[B]

I wasn't there. I can't recall.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So why are you here in the witness? But Mr. Cain only wanted one. We wanted Kylie, who was the person back then. We wanted somebody else.

[A]

So you did have a good relationship with an AFP member at some point?

[B]

No, Nicole did. I was onto their back straight away, as soon as my investigators started with the contradiction in the autopsies, which is on the website. It all starts with the homepage on the website.

[A]

Hunting Ellie's killer. A father's relentless pursuit of justice by you, Paul Warren. And again, we were chatting just before we went to air, because writing a book is a pain in the ass, isn't it?

[B]

Oh, it's a nightmare. You know. You know, you've got to write a book. It's a true story.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I can tell you, everything in there is true. Yeah.

[A]

And it's your story, so of course you know what you're talking about.

[B]

And you've got to have the facts right.

[A]

Yes. And the publisher's got lots of lawyers.

[B]

What makes it a bigger nightmare is the publisher's got lawyers.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I wanted a bit more in. But. But they just can't do that. No, not because.

[A]

You know what, Paul? We don't want you getting in trouble.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's. That's the thing for a man in your situation, is all of us feel an immense amount of pain on your behalf. We're so sorry that this has happened to you. And we understand your passion. We understand your wanting to tell everything, scream it from the rooftops. But at the same time, as you well know, the way the world works, the way the legal world works, is that you can't do that. I mean, it's admirable. Everything you're doing and everything you've done is admirable. Do you have to remind yourself sometimes that, though, that it won't bring her back? I know that's a weird question to ask, but it feels like sometimes we think, if I can get to the bottom of this, if I can solve this puzzle.

[B]

Wow. Wow. Something. I had an experience.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Do you want me to tell you?

[A]

Please.

[B]

I saw a message on Facebook from a clairvoyant, and she was adamant, messaging me and saying that Ellie's visiting me, she's not going to leave me alone, you've got to come and see me. And I thought, what a lot of rubbish. You know, I'm thinking, oh, God, this person won't leave me alone. So I messaged her back a couple of times, and she messaged. And then she said, you have to come. You got to come. And she was so persistent, I thought, oh, okay, all right, I'll follow it up. You know, I might as well. So I went there. It was only in Bomb beach or something like that. And she told me all this stuff, and I was a bit sort of skeptical still. But there's one thing that she said to me that was amazing in the end that came out later on. She said, ali is going to show you in a way that she's still around. So that you will definitely believe. Because I don't believe in a feather on the floor.

[A]

Yeah, Butterfly.

[B]

Well, you know, seeing ghosts, the mind can play tricks on you.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

The subconscious can play tricks. I know that.

[A]

And also when we're so desperate to

[B]

get someone back, and I'm an industrial engineer, I look at the practical things, the solution, the logical stuff, you know, as far as I'm concerned, spirits and all that didn't exist then. Right. But Ellie and I used to debate humanity and how it all started. She believed it was from the monkeys. And I believe that there's gotta be something that started all of this.

[A]

Something spiritual.

[B]

Well, I don't know, something. The universe is so big, so many paints, you know, blah, blah, blah. You can go on about it, you know, but it's so big that something is there, a creator, you know. But I used to stir about the Bible and the things in the Bible because she hated all. She thought it was the monkeys. Anyway, this becomes relevant with about what I'm about to say to you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

On Good Friday, 2019, it was a beautiful day outside. There was no wind. I was sitting on my couch and on my couch I could not see my front door, right? But I leave my keys in the front door because I don't know about you, but I lose my keys. So I leave them in the front door. Anyway, they were in the front door and I was on my phone and I started. I got a shiver. I did get a bit cold, just a little bit, you know, like. Oh yeah. And then these keys, my keys started going nuts in the door. Jingling. They were, they were going really loud, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I hopped up and I said, is anybody there? Because I thought somebody was on the other side of the door with the door handle. Anyway, I walked over to the door where I could see it and that stopped. But as I walked over, there's a picture in the book with my monument for.

[A]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You'll see that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The door's just on the left hand side of that. Yeah.

[A]

So you've got a beautiful. So I've gone up sort of desk there with photos and everything all over now.

[B]

Is it my subconscious? I'm thinking, yeah.

[A]

Am I going mad?

[B]

Am I going mad?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I thought about what the clairvoyance said to me, me that Ellie would show you In a way that you would believe. So I thought, okay. All of a sudden, just came into my mind. I said, ellie, is that you? Are you here? Now two pictures flew from that there into the middle of the room. Everybody gets shivers when I say. I know.

[A]

Wow. Two pictures flew off the desk there.

[B]

I didn't see them fly off, but they didn't fall on the floor here. They felt they were in the middle of the room because I had my back to that monument. I was looking at the keys in the door and the glass broke in one of them. I was flabbergasted. I didn't know what to do. I just froze. Seriously. Now I'm on a concrete slab. There was no earthquake that day prior. I'd been there seven years to there. No pictures. Nothing falls on the floor.

[A]

So you've gone through all the scientific

[B]

ideas of how nothing's fallen on the floor.

[A]

The keys have never rattled again.

[B]

But what got me, Michelle, being an engineer, because I do time and motion things and all that sort of stuff. Ali knew the timing was important to me. So I've gone. Ellie, is that you? Are you here?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Boom. Straight away, the picture's flew off.

[A]

Yeah. I believe you. But this story came to your mind when I asked you if you ever felt like I can get her back if I can just solve all this riddle and get to the end of all of these issues. And then this is the story that came to your mind straight away. So have you felt since then like she is here?

[B]

I believe now of the stories that people see, the relatives. What I think is the body is a capsule and there is a spirit that leaves the body.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When our body's gone. Right. Our blood's not pumping anymore. I think there is. We call it a spirit, but let's say it's energy. That's the word. And energy leaves the body and we can see things.

[A]

Can you now relate to the fact that what happened to Ellie was hideous, but it's over. Like it's not still happening?

[B]

Yeah. I think they go into a different realm or a different dimension or a different place.

[A]

She's not still in pain. She's not in fear. She's not.

[B]

But Ellie would be happy to know, now that I know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That she's still with me.

[A]

Yeah. Otherwise she wouldn't.

[B]

And I believe that.

[A]

Done that. Yeah.

[B]

Great. Even with all that, I didn't believe before my experience. I believe that. Yeah.

[A]

I'm very glad to hear that.

[B]

But the problem we've got is that we all won't know until we die.

[A]

We can't come back and tell anyone either.

[B]

We can't come back and tell anyone. I know. So. But I think the universe has got surprises for us.

[A]

Me too. And I'm into it.

[B]

I'm into it too.

[A]

I'm looking forward to it. To finding out. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, the book. Hunting Ellie's Killer. A Father's Relentless Pursuit of Justice. I want everybody to make sure they get a copy of this book and read it. And also, what's your website? When people want. Cause we have obviously only danced across the surface of this story. So what's the website?

[B]

I've got a website. It's Elly E, double L, Y, W, A R, E, N And then you put.net got it onto it. It's taken me years to do that website and I keep updating it a little bit with the facts. Now, most of the facts, 99% are there and there's a big homepage on the start, which is overwhelming, but it's got everything there.

[A]

Congratulations and well done. They can't take this away from you, so congratulations and all our love to you and all our love to Ellie, wherever she is, knowing all the mysteries of the world as she does now. If you need support after listening to this podcast, you can call Lifeline on 131114 or contact 1-800-Respect on 1-800-737-732 or 1-800-Respect. Org au Indigenous Australians can contact 13 Yarn on 139276 or 13 yarn.org au.

[B]

The producers of this podcast, Ray, recognise the traditional owners of the land on which it's recorded. They pay respect to the Aboriginal elders past, present and those emerging.