True Crime Tonight: Full Show (14/06/26)

Summary

Australian True Crime – "True Crime Tonight: Full Show (14/06/26)" Host: Meshel Laurie
Producers/Co-hosts: Matthew Tankard, Ruby Bartzis
Date: June 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of "True Crime Tonight" explores the often-overlooked impact of crime on witnesses and survivors within Australian suburbs, with honest conversations about the realities of accessing support and mental health care after traumatic events. The team discusses the recent Netflix documentary "The Trial of Michael Jackson," giving candid opinions and commentary on celebrity justice and public perception. The highlight of the episode is an in-depth interview with Dr. Jenny Haynes, whose experiences with dissociative identity disorder (DID) following extreme childhood trauma are the subject of the new documentary "We Are Jenny."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ripple Effects of Crime on Australian Communities

• Listener Talia from Newcastle shares her traumatic experience as a witness to a knife crime, describing both the immediate aftermath and the disappointing government-provided victim support.

  • Quote (02:35):

    "I was obviously entitled to victim support through the government and to be quite frank, it was rubbish...I had to pay out of pocket to go see my psychologist and go through EDMR." — Talia

• Meshel (Host) and Producers reflect on how hard it can be to access mental health care in Australia, even with official plans or legal entitlements.

  • Quote (03:14):

    "Anyone who's tried to access mental health care in Australia knows that. It's hard, right?...Hundreds of dollars, even if you're on a mental health plan. Still expensive." — Meshel Laurie

• The team discusses the bystander dilemma: whether it's safer to intervene during a crime. Personal anecdotes highlight the risks and evolving community attitudes, especially around youth crime.

  • Quote (05:01):

    "Not doing anything, even though this poor lady screaming for help is probably the smartest way out of it." — Meshel Laurie

2. The Changing Nature of Youth Crime and Community Response

• Story from Matthew (04:01): Witnessed a smash-and-grab robbery by masked kids and describes the fear and helplessness even as an adult.

• Debate about the reluctance to intervene and change in attitudes toward authority among youth.

  • Quote (06:35):

    "Kids aren't scared of adults anymore...now they're like, fronting like they did with you, Matthew." — Meshel Laurie

• Ruby shares a personal connection to a recent tragedy where a Good Samaritan (her former schoolmate) was killed intervening at a train station.

  • Quote (05:59):

    "Aidan Becker. So it was at Manda train station. Wow, that just so heartbreaking." — Ruby Bartzis

3. True Crime Documentary Review: "The Trial of Michael Jackson" (Netflix)

• The team discusses reactions to the three-part documentary and why it ultimately failed to resonate for them.

  • Meshel found it boring:
    Quote (07:45):

    "I found it so boring. I fell asleep twice trying to watch this thing." — Meshel Laurie

• Discussion on the power and limitations of celebrity in legal proceedings, especially when fans are jurors.

• The discourse around public denial of Michael Jackson’s alleged abuse, and the impact of celebrity-created myths ("Wacko Jacko").

  • Quote (11:14):

    "That's again, how he got away with it a lot in terms of public opinion because he'd already created this wacko Jacko image." — Meshel Laurie

• Reflection on backlash against the documentary from Jackson’s defenders, and broader points about believing survivors.

  • Quote (12:35):

    "Pedophiles don't act like that in front of people who work for them...Of course he didn't do it in front of you. Right, yeah." — Meshel Laurie

4. Interview: Dr. Jenny Haynes and "We Are Jenny" – Understanding Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID)

• Introduction (13:57): Dr. Jenny Haynes' groundbreaking court testimony: Allowed to present evidence as multiple personalities.

• Symphony, one of Dr. Jenny's alters, explains how personalities are formed as a defense against trauma.

  • Quote (15:02):

    "We have a doorway, and whoever is sitting in the doorway is in the body...When somebody wants to come along, you just get moved ever so slightly sideways and then they sit down and they're there in the body." — Symphony (Alter of Dr. Jenny Haynes)

  • Quote (15:38):

    "Most of the trauma that results in NPD or DID occurs when we are pre-verbal. So we don't know that we're making alter personalities. We just have a need, and someone rocks up to fill that need." — Symphony

• The reality of childhood trauma and the creation of alters for protection.

  • Quote (18:57):

    "If people start looking at people with DID as victims of crime, then we can actually help how people are treated. Because we're not oddities, we're not bizarre, and we're not mentally ill. We are humans who have experienced the worst kinds of trauma, the worst kinds of abuse at the hands of people who were supposed to protect us." — Symphony (Dr. Jenny Haynes)

• Dr. Jenny’s story aims to change public perception and highlight DID as a survival response to extreme trauma—not a sign of “madness.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Victim Support:

  "Anyone who's tried to access mental health care in Australia knows that. It's hard, right?...Even if you're on a mental health plan. Still expensive." — Meshel Laurie (03:14)

• On Public Attitudes Toward Youth Crime:

  "Kids aren't scared of adults anymore...now they're like, fronting like they did with you, Matthew." — Meshel Laurie (06:35)

• On Bystander Risk:

  "Not doing anything, even though this poor lady screaming for help is probably the smartest way out of it." — Meshel Laurie (05:01)

• On Michael Jackson and Celebrity:

  "That's again, how he got away with it a lot in terms of public opinion because he'd already created this wacko Jacko image." — Meshel Laurie (11:14)

• On DID and Trauma:

  "If people start looking at people with DID as victims of crime, then we can actually help how people are treated. Because we're not oddities, we're not bizarre, and we're not mentally ill." — Symphony (18:57)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Witnessing Knife Crime / Reflection on Victim Services

  • 01:39–03:26: Talia’s call and aftermath
  • 04:01–05:34: Discussion on bystander risk and anecdotal experiences

• Youth Crime and Community Response

  • 05:34–06:50: Debates around intervening and generational shifts

• "The Trial of Michael Jackson" Documentary Review

  • 07:35–12:41: Team reviews the documentary, public reactions, and implications

• Interview with Dr. Jenny Haynes ("We Are Jenny")

  • 13:57–20:00: Deep exploration of DID, trauma, and changing public understanding

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Conclusion

This episode is a nuanced look at the hidden aftermath of crime in Australian suburbia—from the firsthand pain of witnesses and the limits of victim support, to communal risks and responsibilities in the face of youth crime. The panel's frank critique of high-profile documentaries adds refreshing transparency, while Dr. Jenny Haynes’ moving interview is a highlight: destigmatizing DID and reframing its sufferers as survivors of serious crime. Under Meshel Laurie’s empathetic guidance, the conversation continually centers both humanity and hard realities.

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For more details and the complete interview with Dr. Jenny Haynes, listen to the full episode on the Australian True Crime podcast.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

This is a true crime segment and not suitable for children. It contains references to sexual violence and suicide, which some listeners may find distressing. If you need support, you are not alone. Contact Lifeline on 13, 11, 14 or visit lifeline.org au for 24 hours. Support.

[A]

It's a voice that will send shivers down your spine.

[C]

Standoff with police wanted fugitive step 19 times.

[A]

The suspect lured the victim into the wood. Biggest legal dramas in Hollywood. Today is a major win to show what the system can do.

[C]

This is True Crime tonight.

[A]

This is True Crime tonight. I'm your host, Michelle Laurie and I'm here with my producers, Matthew Tankett and Ruby Bartzis. Say hello, guys. Hello. There we go. They're really here. And every Sunday night from 6 till 7, they'll be here and we'll bring you our true crime book and documentary recommendations. We'll chat with you, our listeners, and we'll interview some of the biggest faces, the most interesting people in true crime. This is a true crime show. Don't forget that. I keep saying it, but please don't let your kids listen. Coming up later this hour, we'll talk to Dr. Jenny Haynes about the documentary on her life called called We Are Jenny. I'm sure you remember Jenny. She's the lady who went to court to testify against her father. But it was her and her over 2000 personalities. That's coming up later in the show. But up next we'll hear from Alyssna.

[D]

My name is Talia. I'm a long time listener to your podcast. I live in Newcastle, New South Wales. Anyway, unfortunately, about 18 months ago, my friends and I were witness to knife crime on a night out which then led to the male nuts fighting and we saw all the perpetrators and we had to go in for interviews and all those things and it was like a really awful sky to saw. But then following on from that, like knife crime in Australia and also services for victims like, I was obviously entitled to victim support through the government and to be quite frank, it was rubbish. And I had to pay out of pocket to go see my psychologist and go through EDMR and those things to support my own mental health and journey back into the world. Yeah, there's a lot few little things that love to hear about.

[A]

Thank you so much for calling and leaving that message. By the way. So you have witnessed a murder.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I'm trying to find a way to say this without sounding like an a hole, but I feel like there's so many witnesses to crime in Australia. Which is not to say I don't think we have an epidemic of violent crime. I really do not. But I understand why probably the state government can't afford for everybody to have ongoing psychiatric care. We know that victims of crime and witnesses of crime certainly deserve help. It's a very traumatic event. But I just don't know. Anyone who's tried to access mental health care in Australia knows that. It's hard, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just to get an appointment anywhere for anyone. Hundreds of dollars, even if you're on a mental health plan. Still expensive. So this is an interesting perspective and it's one I guess we don't think about until it happens to us.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, a few months ago, the IGA just next to my house, a bunch of kids came through all masked up and basically just did like a smash and grab. They just went in, they were like kicking down all of like the stands in the supermarket. There was me, two elderly women and then a guy with his like three year old son. And the lady who ran the iga, she was screaming, like murderously screaming and going, somebody do something. Which I shouldn't have even done. All I said was just like, hey,

[A]

that's what I wanted.

[C]

That's all I did. I just went, hey, like trying to sound like as tough as I could. And then one of the kids walks up to me and sort of like gestures to like his waistband as if he's got like a knife under there. And I obviously just immediately like walked back and said, oh like, no worries. And you know, like, I've been working with you, Michelle for like a bit over four years. We do true crime all the time. In the scheme of things, that is such a low level crime to experience just people running through an IGA and taking stuff. Oh my God, that freaks me out. Like it was really, really scary. And it's good to remember we talk about that all the time with like people who robbed banks back in the day.

[A]

Yes, that's right.

[C]

That sounding like a bit of like a larrikin.

[A]

Yeah. Or they like, oh, the gun was never even loaded.

[C]

Like.

[A]

Yeah, well just because you knew you weren't going to kill anyone doesn't mean all those that you were screaming at to get on the floor, you'll kill them. And rah, rah, rah, they don't know that. But I had to stop intervening. My kids made me stop because I'm such a Karen around the neighbourhood and I think we all. All us mums. It's a small neighbourhood. All of our kids went to. You kind of know every kid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so when there's a drama going on, we'll. I probably would have said, hey, you kids. That's probably what I would have said. Like, I know your mum kind of attitude, but that doesn't mean I might not have got stabbed in the moment. So I think you did the smart thing. I think, unfortunately, not doing anything, even though this poor lady screaming for help is probably the smartest way out of it.

[C]

That's the general idea, I think. Right. It's. Especially if a store's getting robbed. It's like, you don't need to put your life on the line.

[A]

Not worth it.

[C]

The only time I feel like you'd need to intervene is if someone's actually getting attacked. And I don't know.

[A]

Yeah. If they were attacking the lady, I don't think I could hesitate to get involved. But we know here in Melbourne, you know, there was a Good Samaritan, a tradie at a train station, who was murdered a couple of months ago doing exactly that interview when some kids were attacking another kid. He intervened, was stabbed and died there on the train platform.

[B]

I actually went to school with that kid.

[A]

Did you really? Yeah. Which one? The kid who was being attacked.

[B]

No, he was. No, he's the kid that died.

[A]

He's the guy who died that intervened.

[B]

Aidan Becker. So it was at Manda train station. Wow, that just so heartbreaking.

[A]

And such a moment for our community. We talk about these moments that change a community, and I think that one really stuck with me because, as I said, I am likely to yell at some kids at the train station, knock it off, you kids.

[B]

But. But that's also the thing. Like, there's kids that always rob our local Woolworths. Like, just go in, nobody says anything. And they were riding their bikes into, like, the shopping centre bit. And my dad was like. To some guy, like, why is nobody telling these kids they're like, 14? And the guy turned to my dad, he's like, oh, no, these kids aren't worth it. Like, they always had knives and stuff on them.

[A]

And kids aren't scared of adults anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, when we were growing up, expect your oldest.

[B]

Where's that gone?

[A]

If an adult had a crack at you at the shops, someone. Oh, you were that embarrassed. But now they're like, fronting like they did with you, Matthew.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Going, what?

[A]

Sorry, what was that?

[C]

And it was very successful. Yes, it was very successful.

[B]

Oh, Lord.

[A]

Well, there's no kids listening to this. We know that because I keep saying, don't let them. But if you happen to be a kid listening, can you please pull your head in? Yeah.

[C]

And thank you, Talia, for sending in that speak pipe. A speak pipe, if you don't know it, is essentially just sending us a. It's like a voicemail recording. You can find a link to do so at our podcast, Australian True Crime, or on our social media as well. This.

[A]

This is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie

[C]

across Australia. This is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie, Ruby Bartsis and me, Matthew Tankard. Coming up, we've got an interview with Dr. Jenny Haynes about her new documentary, we are Jenny. But first, we're doing a true crime documentary recommendation. Michelle, what have we got this week?

[A]

I set you kids some homework and myself some homework as well for the weekend, which was to go and have a look at the new Netflix documentary. So three parts. The Trial of Michael Jackson.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Yep. Now, already late last week, I was reading some stuff online that's like, oh, God, this changed my auntie's mind about the whole case. And, like, a lot of excitement, a lot of buzz online. Could not wait to carve out the time for myself to watch it. I found it so boring. I fell asleep twice trying to watch this thing.

[C]

Yeah, Matthew, I got through just the

[B]

first episode of it and I didn't watch it.

[A]

So you made the right decision.

[B]

Well, yes.

[C]

When people are changing their minds, as in, like, they do think he's guilty or they don't think he's guilty.

[A]

I think this. The one I think of was like, they do think he's guilty. I was getting the impression online that it was a game changer in terms of all those people who say, oh, you know, he was found not guilty, so you can't. Of course he wasn't guilty because he went through a trial and he was exonerated. And I thought, oh, okay. But this is gonna be all about how all the factors at play.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he probably was guilty. Factors like he's the biggest superstar in the world. That's intimidating slash exhilarating for people on the jury. It's impossible for the jury to judge him as a person when they're just obsessed with him. They're all sitting there going, that's Michael Jackson. That's Michael Jackson sitting right there in front of me. So I thought it was Gonna be all those issues. And I kind of touched on them, but I felt like it was all rehash. I've seen. Not only have I heard all these stories, I've seen all the people on it tell these stories before. The most interesting thing I found was Martin Bashir, the documentary maker who made the doco living with Michael Jackson. That led to the court case, because this was a doco in which Michael said to him, oh, I want you to meet one of my friends. And of course, It's a boy, 1012 year old boy. And the little boy gave an interview. That was gross. He was saying things like, yeah, Michael said to me, if you really love me, you'll sleep in my bed. So I was like, oh, man. Okay.

[C]

And they also said that in that part, I think it was Michael Jackson's biographer said he was looking at that and you can see, you can kind of clock Michael Jackson realizing, ah, this is a really bad idea. That sounds so bad.

[A]

That sounds really bad. And the kid is saying, I didn't want to. He's like. And I thought, oh, man. Okay.

[C]

And they kind of say that documentary is what led people to really change their opinion on him. Right. But do you remember in that era, was he already known as like Wacko

[A]

Jacko before then, before any of the childhood allegations? But he created the Wacko Jacko. He loved it. He was the one who got the monkey bubbles. He would release all these stories like he sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber at night and all these crazy stories.

[C]

Is that real?

[A]

No.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And that's what people who were around him will say, oh, he created all of the Wacko Jacko stuff. But then it came back to bite him. Because then people went, hang on, is he wacko enough to be a sex offender? Maybe he is, you know, so, yeah, it came back to bite him. But I found the documentary really dull, so I can't recommend it to you. I think if you followed this case like I have, you've seen it all before. It's good if you don't. If you've never seen or read or heard anything about the accusations against Michael Jackson, maybe it's worth watching.

[C]

You know, the thing that I did get out of the one episode that I saw was actually seeing all of the rooms, you know, all that like archival footage of like the rooms in his house.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I was just thinking this is exactly what you would make like a Hollywood villain child predator's house look like he's mannequins. Yeah. Alarms everywhere. Mannequins of like children just everywhere. Like it's very.

[B]

That's horrifying.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

That's again, how he got away with it a lot in terms of public opinion because he'd already created this wacko Jacko image. So I think that's why a lot of people went. Yeah, well, he said he was weird. Like he has been telling us he's

[B]

making like a joke out of it. People wouldn't take it as seriously because he's been putting this Persona on anyway.

[A]

Obviously I wouldn't walk around with little boys all the time, would I? If I was attacking them, assaulting them, I'd keep it secret, wouldn't I?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's that double bluff.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Hiding in plain sight.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I'm sorry, I wish I could recommend it, but as I say, if you don't know anything about it, it's a good place to start. Well, I'm not going to watch it. Yeah. And for you?

[B]

No, I'm not taking a recommendation. But yeah, it's getting a bit of backlash. Like Jonathan Moffat, he's cancelled Netflix on his Instagram openly saying he worked with the Jackson family for 30 years and he just thinks he can't believe Netflix would even put something like that out.

[A]

So, I mean, imagine again.

[C]

Well, the Michael Jackson is innocent crowd are just so.

[B]

Oh, it's.

[A]

Well, let's put that into context again. Like everyone, you know, the joke now is if it was any other man who built a fun fair in his front yard and slept with little boys would be suspicious. But again, it's like, well, just because you didn't see it, like, pedophiles don't act like that in front of people who work for them.

[B]

Of course not.

[A]

Like, oh, I worked for Michael Jackson and I. So I know he's innocent. Cause he was nice to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you're. If you found out your neighbour or a guy you worked with or someone like that was a sex offender, you wouldn't say, well, he can't be. Cause he never did it in front of me. Of course he didn't do it in front of you. Right, yeah. So it's. I just don't get the determination of some people to refuse the evidence. And all of these people telling terrible stories have lost their income, have lost their livelihoods. You know, I just don't get it. This is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie. This is True Crime tonight. And joining us tonight to talk about the new documentary streaming on SBS called We are Jenny is Dr. Jenny Haynes. In 2019, Dr. Jenny Haynes gave evidence in court against her father, who was charged with various sex crimes committed against Jenny throughout her childhood. In the history making trial, Dr. Jenny was the first person in the world allowed to present evidence on the stand from several of her personalities. Dr. Jenny lives with a condition known as dissociative identity disorder, or multiple personality disorder. She has over 2000 personalities whom she refers to as alters. When you popped up on the screen, like who's in the, you know, waiting to come into the call, it was symphony.

[E]

That's right, yes.

[A]

Is that your most common alter or is that.

[E]

Yeah, yeah. She's the one that created all of us. So it's us, honest, honoring the little girl that made everybody else for the lived experience of having did. My experience is we have a doorway, and whoever is sitting in the doorway is in the body. Okay? Nice and simple. And it's a doorway. You just sit down and there you go. However, when somebody wants to come along, you just get moved ever so slightly sideways and then they sit down and they're there in the body. When you look at the diagnosis of mpd, MPD is considered a mental illness. We are dysfunctional, apparently, but we're not. We are small children surviving the worst the world has to offer in the only way we can. I mean, most of the trauma that results in NPD or DID occurs when we are pre verbal. So we don't know that we're making alter personalities. We just have a need, and someone rocks up to fill that need. And it just so happens you've created an alter personality 2,682 times.

[A]

And your doctor, Dr. George Blair west, he says that part of it, too, part of the evolution of NPD DID

[B]

is

[A]

a very young child feeling like no one is coming to help them. That most obviously the two people they should. They expect should take care of them. Their two parents have made it clear to them that they're not going to come and rescue them. And in fact, they're inflicting the trauma. In your case, your dad was inflicting the trauma. And so you needed to invent people to rescue you.

[E]

Yes, we make people to rescue us. Yes. But what I did. Hi, I'm Symphony.

[A]

Oh, hello.

[E]

This is my question. So I understood that I had to help Daddy. And we're not gonna talk about anything, any details. We're just gonna talk around it so that I don't traumatize anybody. And if we get tricky, Boris will come and give everybody a trigger warning. If you hear a Russian Voice. It's Boris. So I made people to do the jobs that made it hard for me to deal with Daddy. So Daddy smells. So I made people that could not smell Daddy.

[A]

So is that what you mean, Symphony, by saying that you had to help?

[E]

Okay, we'll need trigger warning. When we talk of helping Daddy, she's talking about being abused. He pitched it as only she could help him, but it turns out that what it was was rape and childhood sexual abuse. And very unpleasant, so we try to use euphemisms. And so she. What he told her was that she had to help him.

[A]

So that's his word, his terminology.

[E]

His word.

[A]

Okay, I see. Yep.

[E]

Okay. I think that's end, trigger warning.

[A]

Thank you.

[E]

Thank you, Boris. In many ways, I guess I'm the one that he harmed. I think is the current term for it. I'm the one that he harmed every day for 14 years. And my alters are people that came and did everything else. So they went to school, they read books, they played, they did the things that I didn't have that time or energy to do.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. So Symphony, in a way. You know, you're so young, but you're. You're a leader, aren't you?

[E]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Is there. Is there a fundamental Jenny. Is there one person who's Jenny and then. And all these others as well, or is Jenny an amalgam?

[E]

There's a fundamental person symphony, and then there's the rest of us.

[A]

Right. Wow. Okay.

[E]

There is nobody inside that is a Jenny. Jenny is the label. Like, you go shopping and you need to buy a coat. You go and you buy a coat. We. Jenny is like the coat. Okay. And we all wear Jenny. But the actual person that is the most important person, the one that we all radiate around, is symphony. So there is an essential symphony.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

If after people have watched we are Jenny, they come away with an understanding that a person who has multiple personality disorder, dissociative identity disorder. We are not crazy. We are victims of crime. My job here is done because if people start looking at people with DID as victims of crime, then we can actually help how people are treated. Because we're not oddities, we're not bizarre, and we're not mentally ill. We are humans who have experienced the worst kinds of trauma, the worst kinds of abuse at the hands of people who were supposed to protect us. And if I can get everybody to understand that, then the world is a different place.

[B]

Thank you to our guest, Dr. Jenny Haynes. If you would like to listen to the full interview with them. You can check out the conversation in full on our podcast, Australian True Crime, available on the iHeart app wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to True Crime Tonight. You can join us every Sunday from 6 till 7pm See you next week.

[A]

This is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie.