True Crime Tonight: Full Show (17/05/26)

Summary

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Australian True Crime – "True Crime Tonight: Full Show (17/05/26)"

Date: May 17, 2026
Host: Michelle Laurie
Producers: Matthew Tankard, Ruby Bartsis
Guest: Shannon McGarvey (investigative journalist, host of the LISK podcast)

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Episode Overview

This episode of "True Crime Tonight" focuses on recent high-profile true crime headlines in Australia, an in-depth discussion of the Michael Jackson/Casio family revelations, and an illuminating interview with Shannon McGarvey on the Long Island Serial Killer (LISK) case. By blending headline news, documentary recommendations, and a deep-dive interview, the episode examines the dynamics of criminal investigations, media attention, and the enduring public fascination with notorious cases.

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Key Discussions & Takeaways

Recent Australian True Crime Headlines

(Timestamps: 01:01–05:03)

• Matt Wright’s Release & Legal Troubles

  • Celebrity crocodile wrangler Matt Wright missed his third child’s birth after serving five months in prison for attempting to pervert the course of justice following a fatal helicopter crash. He plans to appeal his conviction.
  • Quote (01:12, Ruby Bartsis): "He was sentenced to 10 months but on Monday the non parole period of five months expired. It's understood he still plans to fight the guilty verdict."

• Assault Allegations Against Anthony Catalano

  • NSW executive Catalano accused of assault and threats against his wife. He was excused from in-person court appearances for mental health reasons, with his lawyers citing heavy drug influence during the alleged offenses.

• Julian Ingrams Manhunt and Death

  • Ingrams, accused of killing his pregnant ex, her aunt, and her friend, was found dead alongside two guns after months on the run.
  • Discussion focuses on how this mass murder case was overshadowed by media coverage of Desi Freeman’s fugitive story.
  • Quote (02:41, Michelle Laurie): "So we had two fugitives on the run in Australia, both accused of murder, but Desi was for whatever reason, more interesting to people."

Notable Reflection:

• The team expresses guilt and surprise over how “terrible” crimes can escape media focus, emphasizing the influence of narrative and proximity.
• Quote (03:33, Michelle Laurie): "I actually feel really guilty that I didn't know more about it. That's a terrible story."

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The Casio Family & Michael Jackson: Documentary Segment

(Timestamps: 05:31–11:08)

• 60 Minutes Special: The Casio Family

  • The Casios were close to Michael Jackson; their stance has shifted from his public defenders to legal opposition against his estate.
  • They allege childhood grooming and sexual abuse by Jackson, claims that mirror revelations from "Leaving Neverland".
  • Quote (06:09, Michelle Laurie): "They have now changed sides effectively... the controversy comes up again because the movie completely avoids the idea that he was ever accused of child sex crimes."

• Legal Complexities & Settlements

  • The Casios received hush payments but now challenge the agreement, citing coercion and seeking higher compensation.
  • Michael Jackson’s $25 million settlement with Jordy Chandler discussed as an example of legal strategy and public perception.

Personal Reflections and Impact

• The hosts reflect on generational attitudes toward Jackson and the separation (or not) of art from the artist.

• Quote (08:54, Michelle Laurie): "With Michael, it's really hard for me. I hear Billie Jean on the radio, I hear Beat it. And I'm eight years old again."

• Grooming and Realizations Within the Casio Family

  • It wasn't until watching "Leaving Neverland" that the youngest Casio sibling recognized his own abuse, having believed for years his connection with Jackson was unique.
  • Quote (10:33, Michelle Laurie): "This is what's really important, I think... they talk about grooming in such an important way because it's happened to them and it's things that we, if we haven't been groomed, we can't understand."

• The World as Jackson's Audience

  • Matthew Tankard notes how Jackson "groomed the whole world" through charisma, making it hard for even fans to see the truth.

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Interview with Shannon McGarvey: The Long Island Serial Killer

(Timestamps: 12:01–18:03)

• Case Overview

  • Shannon Gilbert’s 2010 disappearance led to the discovery of multiple women's remains on Gilgo Beach.
  • The long-unsolved case was recently closed with the guilty plea of Rex Heuermann, who admitted to murdering seven women and an eighth victim remains under investigation.
  • Quote (13:01, Shannon McGarvey): "A thousand days to the date from when he was arrested to when he admitted guilt... years and years of not knowing, the pain and torture that these families have been through is unimaginable."

• Failures of Law Enforcement

  • The failings and frequent personnel changes in Suffolk County PD and the DA's office hampered the investigation for years.
  • Quote (14:26, Shannon McGarvey): "He's sick and he's a deviant. He's not a genius. And the only reason he got away with it for so long is because the Suffolk County Police Department was so inept."

• The Role of Victim Prejudice

  • The fact that victims were sex workers contributed to the lack of urgency and respect in the early investigation.

• Expectations at Sentencing

  • Discussion of whether Heuermann will speak at sentencing; skepticism about meaning or remorse if he does.
  • Quote (15:26, Shannon McGarvey): "I don't think he's capable of remorse, whatever he says. Honestly, I'd fear that it would only traumatize the families more... any apology he offers them is empty. It's hollow."

• The Banality and Mystery of Serial Evil

  • Shannon McGarvey and Michelle Laurie reflect on the disconnect between the killer’s ordinary appearance and unimaginable crimes.
  • Quote (17:22, Michelle Laurie): "I've never seen anyone in the dark or anywhere and thought, yep, you look like you murdered that lady. I can never reconcile it."

• Why We Are Intrigued by Serial Killers

  • The "heart of darkness": a human fascination with how someone crosses the line into inhumanity.
  • Quote (17:44, Shannon McGarvey): "I think that's why people are intrigued by serial killers... How can you turn your humanity off?"

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Memorable Quotes

• "Is it because we're city dwellers that we don't think about... a person on the run, a person who's committed murders... I think that would rattle me."
  – Michelle Laurie, 04:22

• "It's like he's groomed the whole world in a way. People that he hasn't even met will spend their entire lives defending this guy just because they love his music."
  – Matthew Tankard, 10:50

• "This very, very solvable case had languished for so many years as unsolved... because the Suffolk County Police Department was so inept."
  – Shannon McGarvey, 14:26

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Australian true crime headlines | 01:01–05:03| | Michael Jackson & the Casio family discussion | 05:31–11:08| | Intro to LISK & interview with Shannon McGarvey | 12:01–18:03|

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Summary Flow and Tone

Consistent with the style of "Australian True Crime," the episode weaves between candid, sometimes dark humor and sober reflection. Michelle Laurie’s empathy—periodically marked by guilt over missed stories and emotional reactions to survivors’ disclosures—anchors the show. The team’s frank, unsparing discussions about media bias, police ineptitude, and the psychological dimensions of crime ensure that listeners are left informed, unsettled, and compelled to think more deeply about the underbelly of Australian and international life.

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Transcript

[Ruby Bartsis]

Warning.

[Michelle Laurie]

This is a true crime segment and not suitable for children. It contains references to sexual violence and suicide which some listeners may find distressing.

[Ruby Bartsis]

If you need support, you are not alone. Contact Lifeline on 13, 11, 14 or visit lifeline.org au for 24 hour support.

[Michelle Laurie]

We don't know precisely. It's a voice that will send shivers down your spine.

[Matthew Tankard]

Standoff with police wanted fugitive step 19 times.

[Michelle Laurie]

The suspect lured the victim into the war. Biggest legal dramas in Hollywood today is a major to show what the system can do.

[Matthew Tankard]

This is true Crime tonight.

[Michelle Laurie]

This is true Crime tonight. I'm your host Michelle Laurie. I'm here with my producers Matthew Tankard and Ruby Bartces. And every Sunday night from 6 till 7, we'll bring you the latest headlines. True crime book and documentary recommendations and interviews coming up later this hour, we'll talk to investigative journalist Shannon McGarvey about the long island serial killer. But first, here are some true crime headlines with Ruby.

[Ruby Bartsis]

In crime news this week, celebrity crocodile wrangler Matt Wright has admitted he missed the birth of his third child after being released from prison in the Northern Territory. He served five months behind bars after being convicted of two counts of attempting to pervert the course of justice in relation to events after a fatal helicopter crash. He was sentenced to 10 months but on Monday the non parole period of five months expired. It's understood he still plans to fight the guilty verdict. New South Wales executive Anthony Catalano, accused of assaulting and threatening to kill his wife, has been excused from facing court in person and will appear via video link due to his poor mental health. Lawyers of the high profile businessman have successfully argued that walking into a courtroom past media waiting would be detrimental to the 59 year old's well being. They also argued Catalano was heavily drug affected at the time of the alleged offences. And New South Wales police say the discovery of a body in Central west brings an end to a manhunt and relief to the local community. The body, believed to be triple murderer Julian Ingrams, was found alongside two guns. The 37 year old had been on the run since January after killing his pregnant ex, her aunt and her friend.

[Michelle Laurie]

I don't know anything, Ruby, like the name Julian Ingraham isn't ringing a bell for me. So I'm shocked to discover that this, this is a terrible crime and it happened early this year. Why, why don't I remember it?

[Ruby Bartsis]

Yeah, so it happened in January, so I think it was the time of Desi Freeman and everyone just had all their attention on him and I think it Just got, I mean there was a bigger, bigger story people didn't really delve in on. Julian, but he was.

[Michelle Laurie]

Yeah.

[Ruby Bartsis]

On the run in New South Wales.

[Michelle Laurie]

Okay, so he was also a fugitive. I guess that's what you're talking about. So that we had two fugitives on the run in Australia, both accused of murder, but Desi was for whatever reason, more interesting to people. That was the story that really that everyone was fascinated with. And at the same time, I'm just reading this from ABC News. The 37 year old former council gardener had been on the run since January 22nd when three people, including his pregnant ex partner, were fatally shot at Lake Cargeligo. John Harris was also shot dead while sitting next to, to Ms. Quinn in the car. Sophie Quinn was his ex partner. God, that's so awful. And I actually feel really guilty that I didn't know more about it. That's a terrible story. And now he's been found, his remains have been found and police are saying they think they've been there for a while. Is that correct?

[Shannon McGarvey]

Yeah.

[Ruby Bartsis]

Yeah.

[Matthew Tankard]

So why do we think then that Desi got way more, way more publicity? Is it because police officers were shot?

[Shannon McGarvey]

Police officers were shot, yeah.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yeah. But I think also as a result of there not being the same amount of news coverage, New South Wales police would have wouldn't have been getting anywhere near the same amount of scrutiny that Victoria police were getting for not being able to find Desi.

[Michelle Laurie]

That's a really good point because Desi, you know, I said always I thought he was alive because he was an expert in living on the land, you know, and in being sort of, he was best placed to be a fugitive. Whereas this bloke was not former council gardener. And yet he's managed to elude and evade New South Wales police for months as well. Good point.

[Ruby Bartsis]

They found two guns next to his body. So I'm not quite sure how he died.

[Michelle Laurie]

Potentially it seems as though it's self harm. Right? Yeah. Is it because we're city dwellers that we don't think about? I mean, I just can't imagine how terrifying it would be to live in an area where there's a person on the run, a person who's committed murders, who is desperate, who police are searching. I think that would get to me. That would rattle me a bit if I lived in that community.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yeah, I think. Cause there's so many reasons. Right. It's also. They're gonna be hiding on people's property.

[Michelle Laurie]

Absolutely.

[Matthew Tankard]

If you're living in a city, no one's gonna be hiding in like your little balcony in your apartment.

[Michelle Laurie]

That's it. In my courtyard. There's too much kitty litter in my courtyard anyway, so no one wants to live there for months on end. Yeah. So. Yes.

[Ruby Bartsis]

So scary.

[Michelle Laurie]

Well, that's both of them sorted, if I may say so. Both of these of these cases so those communities can rest.

[Matthew Tankard]

This is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie across Australia. This is True Crime tonight with Michelle Laurie, Ruby Bartsis and myself, Matthew Tankard. Coming up, we have an interview with Shannon McGarvey about the long island serial killer. But first, Michelle, you have a true crime documentary recommendation.

[Michelle Laurie]

It's not exactly a documentary recommendation this week, but it's the Australian 60 Minutes episode from last week. Our friend Tara Brown. Oh my God. She has done the most incredible like full hour special on a family called the Casio family who have been related to Michael Jackson. So we've always known about this family, the Casios, very close to Michael. They had four children who were his special friends at various ages and they were appeared on Oprah not long after Michael died to defend him.

[Shannon McGarvey]

Yeah.

[Matthew Tankard]

Famously dogged in the defense.

[Michelle Laurie]

Famously. And they have now changed sides effectively. So, Mike, the Michael Jackson movie's out. Michael's estate, I believe is worth more today than it ever has been before than it was when he was alive. And his family are doing a great job at licensing his image and his work. And this movie is really helping. And so of course the controversy comes up again because the movie completely avoids the idea that he was ever accused of child sex crimes.

[Shannon McGarvey]

Yeah.

[Matthew Tankard]

Does it talk about it at all? Does it even have like, you know, like a little text thing at the end of it of being like, yeah,

[Michelle Laurie]

by the way this happened? Apparently not.

[Matthew Tankard]

Okay.

[Michelle Laurie]

Apparently not. So that's I guess why this is coming up. Also, the Casio's are still locked in legal, in a legal battle against his estate. They had the entire family had signed an agreement with the Jackson estate some years ago indemnifying the estate but paying them. I think it's like six hundred and something thousand dollars each a year for five years, but for their silence, obviously. So now they are challenging that document now in court saying A, we were coerced into signing it and B, we think we deserve a higher payout for that reason. Of course fans will always say it's just a money grab.

[Shannon McGarvey]

Of course.

[Michelle Laurie]

Yeah, yeah. It's believed that the family paid, or Michael paid 25 million to Geordie Chandler, who was the first child to ever come forward.

[Matthew Tankard]

Now that was the civil case that they settled in. Right.

[Michelle Laurie]

Yeah.

[Matthew Tankard]

Because he never admitted guilt. But they did have a financial settlement.

[Michelle Laurie]

Yeah. Because at the same time he was facing a civil and a criminal. Criminal trial. And so of course, his legal team said, if you lose the civil trial, and we know that the. The burden of proof at a civil trial is much lower.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yeah.

[Michelle Laurie]

So they said, if you lose that before we go to the criminal trial, we got no hope in hell. So they had to make. That makes sense that they had to make that civil suit go away. But it also is the conspiracy theory that his fans stick to, which is that he had to settle with that. It had nothing to do with him being guilty. It was just the timing of the two cases. So, look, you know, I'm the Michael Jackson generation, man. I was obsessed with Michael Jackson when I was little. Everybody loved him. And the image that he created was so magical that I really think it was a huge loss of innocence for the world when we realized, well, I

[Matthew Tankard]

think we're all kind of in different generations.

[Michelle Laurie]

Yes.

[Matthew Tankard]

I think when I first came across Michael. Michael Jackson, when he came across my desk.

[Michelle Laurie]

Yes. Yes.

[Matthew Tankard]

I remember my first memory of him was seeing him on the news in the criminal trial.

[Michelle Laurie]

Yeah.

[Matthew Tankard]

And being terrified of him.

[Michelle Laurie]

Oh.

[Matthew Tankard]

You know, that was my first memory of him. What about you, Ruby? Because you're younger than me.

[Ruby Bartsis]

My dad's favorite song was. What's the one where he's, like, moonwalking?

[Michelle Laurie]

Oh, it could be anyone. Is it Billie Jean?

[Ruby Bartsis]

Billie Jean. And I just remember we always used to listen to him in the car. So honestly, I was. I was never started off with a bad outlook on him. And I still do really like his music.

[Michelle Laurie]

That's it. Well, I, being the kind of person I am, like, I have never seen another Woody Allen film since the allegations about Woody and his daughter. I'm pretty. Like, I cut him off pretty much that day. I go, no. But with Michael, it's really hard for me. I hear Billie Jean on the radio, I hear Beat it. And I'm eight years old again.

[Matthew Tankard]

So those Casio, the kids from the Casio family, there's four of them, they all say they were individuals groomed and assaulted by Michael Jackson. And none of them knew that anyone else had been. Is that right?

[Michelle Laurie]

So they would have falling outs with each other over the years, over Michael, but none of them realised it was actually jealousy between them. It was actually Michael playing them off against each other. They never knew. And it wasn't until the youngest one watched Leaving Neverland, the documentary about Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck. And he realised then when they described the assaults that happened to them, that's the first time he realised it had happened to other kids. He's hearing exactly what happened to him and he's devastated, he's heartbroken. Cause he's still a grown man thinking he and Michael had this special bond.

[Ruby Bartsis]

So he grew up not thinking that it was.

[Shannon McGarvey]

No.

[Michelle Laurie]

And this is what's really important, I think about this story is in both cases in Leaving Neverland and in this story about the Cassio family, they talk about grooming in, in such an important way because it's happened to them and it's things that we, if we haven't been groomed, we can't understand.

[Matthew Tankard]

And his power and magnetism, he's Michael Jackson well, and it's like he's groomed the whole world in a way. Like people that he hasn't even met will spend their entire lives defending this guy just because they love his music and they love how he portrays himself in interviews. Could you imagine actually being in his immediate orbit?

[Michelle Laurie]

That's it.

[Matthew Tankard]

How way more extreme that is.

[Michelle Laurie]

And I remember very clearly when Wade Robson, who is now, you know, one of these biggest accusers, was plucked from obscurity in Queensland. Because I too was a Queensland kid and it was on the news like I just can so clearly remember that feeling. Then he's on, hey, hey, it's Saturday. And we're just like punching the air because nothing cool ever happens to a kid from Queensland. And the ultimate is happening to this kid. He's Michael Jackson. Welcome back to True Crime Tonight. I'm your host, Michelle Laurie. In May 2010, 24 year old Shannon Gilbert disappeared after making a frantic 911 call from Oak beach on Long island, telling police someone was trying to kill her. The search for Shannon led investigators to a remote stretch of coastline near Gilgo beach, where they instead uncovered the remains of multiple missing women, beginning what would become one of America's most notorious serial killer investigations over the years. The case remained unsolved until 2023, when architect Rex Heuermann was arrested after authorities linked him to the murders through DNA evidence, burner phones and a renewed task force investigation. In April of this year, Heuermann pleaded guilty to murdering seven women and admitted to an eighth killing, though investigators are still examining whether more victims could be connected to him. The women Heuerman admitted to murdering were Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman, Amber Costello, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack, Sandra Costilla and Karen Vergada. Today we're joined by Shannon McGarvey, host of the Lisk podcast and a consultant and prominent contributor to Peacock's Gilgo Beach Killer, House of Secrets documentary series.

[Shannon McGarvey]

I think I read it was a thousand days to the date from when he was arrested to when he admitted guilt. That on top of years and years and years of, you know, obviously not knowing the pain and torture that these families have been through is unimaginable. The question was asked, does the fact that these women were engaged in sex work have anything to do with the fact that these cases have gone cold and unsolved? And, you know, mind you, this case was cold for years and years and years. I started working. I came onto this case in 2016, which was six years after Shannon Gilbert had gone missing. And by this point, the police chief in Suffolk county had gone to jail. You know, and that was like a big deal.

[Michelle Laurie]

I was thinking things were constantly shifting on the side of law enforcement, too, on Long island, right? The district attorney, the police chiefs, personnel in and out. So that changes the direction every time.

[Shannon McGarvey]

Oh, yeah. This very, very solvable case had languished for so many years as unsolved. Rex Heuerman. You know, I think he fancies himself as some sort of maniacal artist or something like that, you know, so.

[Michelle Laurie]

And a genius. They always think they're genius.

[Shannon McGarvey]

And a genius. Yes, absolutely. And which he's not. He's sick and he's a deviant. He's not a genius. And the only reason he got away with it for so long is because the Suffolk County Police Department was so inept.

[Michelle Laurie]

Do you think his lawyer has said that he expects that he will speak? He will have something to say at his sentencing hearing where the families will give their victim impact statements. What are you expecting from him there? I. I have two cases that come to mind. The first, obviously, is BTK Dennis Rader, who stood there for an hour and detailed every murder, how he did them. The other, though, is Brian Kohberger, a recent case. The man who murdered the four students in Idaho who said nothing. And that was devastating because the families still have no idea of motive, no idea how he even connected with these kids, how he found them, how he chose them. So what are you expecting from Heuhouman?

[Shannon McGarvey]

I mean, I think what I'm expecting and what I wish, maybe in conflict. I hope that the families can address him. You know, I hope that there will be some. I don't know that there is ever quite closure in cases like this, but some peace that they might find at, you know, getting years and years worth of trauma off their chest. Talking to him, addressing him directly. I don't think he's capable of remorse, whatever he says. Honestly, I'd fear that it would only traumatize the families more. I think that we know everything that we need to know about what he did and how he did it. It's been detailed to the Nines. And I think that any apology he offers them is empty. It's hollow. But again, I'm not them. I don't know what they want. But I would hope that they would be given a platform to address him directly in a private way. And I hope that it's not televised or recorded. But, yeah, whatever he says is not. I mean, what is. What could he. I mean. And seriously, what could he possibly say? We know everything. If he says sorry, would you believe him?

[Michelle Laurie]

No.

[Shannon McGarvey]

Did you see the. The video of him in court where the. The judge was asking, you know, all of you know, like, do you understand what's happening? And did anyone promise you anything for this? And I was just looking at him and thinking, like, here's this guy with, like, kind of a lisp. He's just kind of this, like, ogre, this nerd, you know, And I'm like, you have no remorse. You don't seem, you know, it's just very blase, like, oh, yeah, yeah, I understand.

[Michelle Laurie]

Yeah.

[Shannon McGarvey]

Yeah, totally. And I'm like, how. It was just so hard for me to reconcile, like, looking at him and thinking, like, you've done these, like, these

[Michelle Laurie]

horrible, terrible things, but it always is, isn't it? You never see. I've never seen anyone in the dark or anywhere and thought, yep, you look like you murdered that lady. I can never. I can never reconcile it. Like, I look at their hands and I think, with those hands, you did these things. But I can never make it real.

[Shannon McGarvey]

It's sick.

[Ruby Bartsis]

And.

[Shannon McGarvey]

And there's just this other side, and I think that's why. You know, I think that's why people are intrigued by serial killers. You know, like, it's the. It's the heart of darkness, you know, it's like, it's that. How could you do that? Like, where does. Where do you go? Like, where does. Like, how can you turn your humanity off?

[Michelle Laurie]

Thank you to our guest, Shannon McGarvey. If you would like to listen to the full interview with Shannon, you can check it out on our podcast, Australian True Crime, available on the Iheart app or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to True Crime tonight. You can join us every Sunday night from 6 till 7pM See you next week.

[Matthew Tankard]

This is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Lori.