True Crime Tonight: The Predators of Kings Cross

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Australian True Crime

Episode: True Crime Tonight: The Predators of Kings Cross
Host: Michelle Laurie, with Matthew Tankard & Ruby Bartis
Date: July 19, 2026

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Overview

This episode of “True Crime Tonight” explores the dark and often hidden underbelly of Australian suburban life, focusing on high-profile and complex cases like the predators of Kings Cross. Michelle Laurie is joined by her producers and a slate of contributors to discuss cases of abuse, missing persons, the failures and redemptions of the justice system, and the lifesaving importance of advocacy and survivor support. The episode features listener engagement, book recommendations, and a deep-dive interview with Belinda Bates—an advocate and survivor who met her husband while he was incarcerated for murder.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Recommendation: The Disappearance of Katie Walker

• [02:03] Listener Libby introduces the case of Katie Walker, a UK-born woman missing from Sydney since May 23, 2026.
• The podcast “The Disappearance of Katie Walker” is recommended for more details and advocacy.
• Initial media confusion due to mistaken identity with a reality TV producer may have skewed coverage and public interest.
  • “Maybe when they found out it wasn’t her, they kind of lost interest.” – Michelle Laurie [04:34]
• Emphasis on the challenges families face in gaining meaningful, accurate media attention during disappearances.

2. Awareness & Call to Action

• [05:51] Public urged to check CCTV and report any information about Katie's disappearance.
  • Last seen: Alexander Street, Tamarama at 1:12 PM 23 May 2026; phone pinged from Bondi at 7:40 PM.

3. Book Club: 'Predator’s Paradise' by Glenn Fisher

• [07:44] Matthew recommends Glenn Fisher’s memoir about surviving sexual abuse in boys’ homes and on the streets of Kings Cross in the 1980s.
• Fisher’s story disrupts common narratives—he wasn’t from a stereotypically ‘criminal’ family and his childhood trauma stemmed from systemic institutional abuse.
• Insight into “The Homeless Children’s Refuge”, an institution serving as a cover for a predatory pedophile ring protected by social status and political links.
  • “You look at that setup and go, well, that’s unsafe…But as a teenager, you look at that setup and go, this is ace.” – Michelle Laurie [10:09-10:15]
• Convicted offenders from the refuge are named, highlighting rare legal accountability.
• Fisher now runs “The Leg Up” project to assist street-affected youth and continues advocacy.

4. Survivor Advocacy: The Bates’ Redemption & Support Work

• [13:02] Michelle revisits the story of Pete Bates, a convicted murderer who rehabilitated in prison by overcoming addiction, learning to read, and becoming a mentor for other inmates.
• His wife, Belinda Bates, was formerly a prison guard and addiction counselor; their relationship developed after his time in the intervention unit.

The Relationship and Its Challenges

• [14:12] Belinda characterizes the early relationship as chemistry amid unlikely circumstances.
  • “It’s just something that you just wouldn’t think would happen at a place like that.” – Belinda Bates [15:31-15:41]
• Michelle highlights the precarious nature of prison relationships transitioning into the “real” world, and the unique demands of such a move.

Post-Release Life & Advocacy

• Pete flourished upon release, taking on the role of family and advocacy work with Belinda in domestic violence prevention.
  • “He took it all on and it was fantastic. Still to this day.” – Belinda Bates [17:06]
• The couple has been married for 11 years, with Pete out of prison for 12.
• Pete’s digital books—particularly on recognizing coercive control and red flags—form a practical and educational resource for women at risk.

Focus on Early Intervention & Coercive Control

• [17:31] Belinda outlines how her work helps identify dangerous behavioral patterns before escalation to crisis.
• Addresses widespread minimization of risk factors by both victims and observers.
  • “With a lot of domestic violence, when you see your bruises… people can see it. But this coercive control, which I have lived myself, is not seen.” – Belinda Bates [17:49-18:35]
• She urges women not to underestimate potential for violence and advocates for early support.

5. Trauma & Recovery

• Michelle recounts the extreme trauma suffered by Pete and his mother, referencing a harrowing story:
  • “His father poured petrol over him and threatened to set him on fire because his mum was packing to leave. How you ever, ever recover from that, I don’t know.” – Michelle Laurie [20:07]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On media coverage of disappearances:
  “In a podcast, you can take your time, you can talk to lots of people and all that, whereas in a mainstream newsroom, you’ve got that day to bang out a headline... then maybe the next day it’s not really a story anymore.” – Michelle Laurie [04:41]

• On the Homeless Children’s Refuge:
  “This place was particularly appealing for kids because it was a kind of refuge you could go to where you could still do drugs, you could still drink... It basically had no supervision.” – Matthew Tankard [09:39-10:09]

• On survivor advocacy:
  “He has grown into such an amazing man. He has overcome this childhood... took part in the prosecution of these men who were predators on him when he was a child.” – Michelle Laurie [11:49]

• On risky relationships:
  “Don’t assume that under an amount of pressure, an amount of what he perceives as humiliation, an amount of drugs and alcohol, all of those things, that any woman couldn’t be next week’s victim.” – Michelle Laurie [18:35]

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:23 | Episode introduction | | 02:03 | Listener Libby on Katie Walker disappearance | | 04:41 | Discussion on media & missing persons | | 05:57 | Details for reporting Katie Walker information | | 07:44 | Book club: ‘Predator’s Paradise’ by Glenn Fisher | | 10:09 | Analysis of Homeless Children’s Refuge | | 11:24 | Acknowledgement of real pedophile rings by Michelle | | 13:02 | Transition to the Bates’ redemption/interview | | 14:12 | Belinda Bates interview on prison work & meeting Pete | | 16:31 | On the risks of prison relationships moving to “outside” life | | 17:31 | Belinda on their current advocacy focus | | 18:35 | Importance of recognizing early signs of coercive control | | 20:07 | Trauma in Pete’s childhood recounted |

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Episode Flow & Tone

The tone is empathetic, frank, and sometimes irreverently humorous, in keeping with Michelle Laurie’s style. The episode moves from community engagement (via listener messages), to deep dives on both historical and current cases, and concludes with survivor insight, practical advice, and hope for redemption and change.

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Further Resources & Takeaways

• For more on missing persons: Listen to The Disappearance of Katie Walker podcast.
• For insights on institutional survival: Read or listen to Predator’s Paradise by Glenn Fisher and support his project “The Leg Up”.
• On relationship safety: Follow Belinda and Pete Bates; seek out their educational materials on coercive control and early red flag identification.

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This summary is designed to provide an engaging and detailed overview for listeners who want the substance of the episode without hearing every moment. It preserves the original voices and context of the speakers, foregrounds the most crucial material, and omits all non-content sections such as ads and promos.

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Beef Promotion Voice]

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[Content Warning Announcer]

Warning. This is a true crime segment and not suitable for children. It contains references to sexual violence and suicide, which some listeners may find distressing. If you need support, you are not alone. Contact Lifeline on 13, 11, 14 or visit lifeline.org au for 24 hour support.

[Michelle Laurie]

It's a voice that will send shivers down your spine.

[Matthew Tankard]

Standoff with police wanted fugitive step 19 times.

[Michelle Laurie]

The suspect lured the victim into the war.

[Belinda Bates]

Biggest legal dramas in Hollywood.

[Michelle Laurie]

Today is a major win to show

[Listener Libby]

what the system can do.

[Matthew Tankard]

This is True Crime tonight. True Crime tonight.

[Michelle Laurie]

Hello again and welcome back to True Crime Tonight. I'm your host, Michelle Laurie. I'm here with my producers, Matthew Tankard.

[Matthew Tankard]

Hello.

[Michelle Laurie]

And Ruby Bartis.

[Ruby Bartis]

Hello.

[Michelle Laurie]

And well, that's because we're here every Sunday night from 6 till 7 and we're bringing you lots of true crime stuff. We have an interview later in the show with Belinda Bates who analyses coercive and high control behavioural patterns in relationships and helps people before those patterns escalate into crisis. She's married to a bloke called Pete Bates who we've spoken to before. Fantastic couple. They're a dynamic duo. Pete did some time in jail and you will hear more about that later in the show. But next up, we hear from a listener my favorite bit.

[Listener Libby]

Hi, Michelle, Matthew and Ruby. I love to listen to you guys. I've listened to you for a long, long time. But I really wanted to jump on to let you know about a brand new podcast called the Disappearance of Katie Walker. It's about a UK born lady who was last seen in the Sydney eastern suburbs on 23 May this year. So really, really recently there was false reports that she used to be a maths producer and that's how Joshua Fox, who does the maths funny podcast, got onto this and so he's doing this podcast to put out the true story about her and to try and raise some awareness to try and help the family find some answers and hopefully find what happened to Katie Walker.

[Michelle Laurie]

Libby, what a stellar performance that was.

[Matthew Tankard]

Thank you, Libby.

[Michelle Laurie]

Firstly. Oh, she was so good. Firstly gave us her name, which we love, so we can say, thank you, Libby. And secondly, she's given us all the info there. I feel like I have very little to add.

[Matthew Tankard]

Well, and she also mentioned our names, Ruby, which I. Michelle made a rule that she doesn't want the listeners to say our names because she wants it just to be Michelle Laurie. True Crime tonight, But we're gonna let that one slide today.

[Michelle Laurie]

Yeah, that's the only issue I have with it, Libby. But other than that, it was very, very good. She is good. She mentions that hosted by a guy called Joshua Fox. Now, I am not a maths person. I'm not a member of Bachelor Nation. I am not any of those things.

[Ruby Bartis]

You could be. You're single.

[Michelle Laurie]

Well, that's it. The golden Bachelorette or something. Is that what they call the old milfs and dilfs? But. But no, look, I'm not into these shows, so I. When I first listened to the podcast, I was like, who's this bloke? Joshua Fox is his name. And he's obviously very experienced podcaster and speaker. I mean, for one thing, he talks about the fact that initially, when people thought this woman, Katie Walker, was a former MAFFS producer, that that kind of coloured all the media coverage. So.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yeah, so she isn't. Isn't.

[Michelle Laurie]

She isn't.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yeah, she's not.

[Narrator/Announcer]

She.

[Michelle Laurie]

I think her name is similar to a lady who was.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yeah.

[Michelle Laurie]

So this lady's got the fright of her life when all of a sudden the media's lit up one day a couple of weeks ago, about six weeks ago, saying former MAFS producer missing, and they thought it was her and she had to contact them and go, I'm fine, it's not me, it's a completely different lady. So the idea that Josh has and some other people on his podcast is that maybe that skewed the media reportage. Maybe when they found out it wasn't her, they kind of lost interest.

[Belinda Bates]

Yeah.

[Ruby Bartis]

Which is so sad for the family.

[Michelle Laurie]

Any. And again, this is what I've learned from many years in True Crime is that it's such a tightrope for families and the media in this situation. Like they want as much information out as possible, particularly when someone's missing, when there's a mystery going on and they need help. But then you run the risk of false reporting, of bad reporting, of you know, so I suppose I'm being very negative about mainstream news media, actually. I'm going listen, in a podcast, you can take your time, you can talk to lots of people and all that, whereas in a mainstream newsroom, you've got that day to bang out a headline, as many facts as you can get your hands on, and then maybe the next day it's not really a story anymore. Especially if the lady turns out not to be a producer from one of the country's most popular shows. This lady's gone missing from a very highly populated area from Tamarama in Sydney. It was, by all accounts, a beautiful sunny day. She's seen on some CCTV wandering around, doing some shopping and stuff, and then she's disappeared. So it is a case where people will probably have seen her and not realise maybe that they have information about her whereabouts. So, yes, it is very important that we all pay attention to the Katie Walker case, especially if we were anywhere near Tamarama on this day.

[Matthew Tankard]

And if you have any information about Katie Walker, please contact Crime Stoppers on 1-833. 00.

[Michelle Laurie]

Please do. Yes, absolutely. And the details are these. She was last seen on Alexander street in Tamarama at 1.12pm on 23rd May 2026. Her mobile phone later pinged from a cell tower in Bondi at 7.40pm and have a look online. We'll have some links in the show notes to the podcast version of this show to take you to photos and things like that.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yep. And we'll also have a link for Crime Stoppers there. If you want to report anonymously, please do.

[Michelle Laurie]

Coming up later on the show, we talk to Belinda Bates, who she and her husband, who I have mentioned. And again, I am being very salacious about this, but I think it's such a great redemption story. Her husband, Pete Bates, was in jail for murder.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yep.

[Michelle Laurie]

And he is now a really motivated, passionate advocate against violence, family violence, domestic violence. He was a victim himself as a young child and he. Prison was really great for Pete. He did the courses, he did the, you know, took the opportunities that he was given there.

[Matthew Tankard]

And he learnt to read.

[Michelle Laurie]

He learnt to read in jail.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Ruby Bartis]

And he wasn't even. He was 19 when he went to jail, so it's just wild.

[Michelle Laurie]

The odds of a bloke coming out a better person after that are so. I thought. I thought it was impossible.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yeah.

[Michelle Laurie]

Well, we've spoken to Pete and now we've spoken to his wife, Belinda, and that will be coming up. A little portion of that chat will be coming up shortly for you to listen to on True Crime tonight

[Narrator/Announcer]

across Australia.

[Ruby Bartis]

This is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie, Matthew Tankard and myself, Ruby Bartis. Coming up, we've got an interview with last week's guest, Pete Bates wife, Belinda Bates, who met Pete while he was in jail for murder. But first, Matthew, you have a true crime book club.

[Matthew Tankard]

The book I'm recommending this week is Predator's paradise by Glenn Fisher. Michelle, we had Glenn Fisher on a few years ago on Australia True Crime to talk about his experience in the King's cross in the 80s. So Glenn Fisher, you know, he had the childhood of on Australian True Crime sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes we talk to perpetrators and lots of those guys have had somewhat similar childhoods, which is born into a really violent home, then spend the rest of their youth in a boy's home and then they go on to become violent offenders. Not the case with Glen Fisher. He went to the boy's home, suffered sexual abuse there from another inmate. And this part really stuck with me. In that boy's home, if you were abused by someone then like the next day or whatever in the morning, if the other kids knew about it, they would then use that as a reason to pick on you.

[Michelle Laurie]

Yeah, it's one of the things we've just heard over and over about those boys home, just how brutal they were and yeah, the percentages play it out pretty clearly of men, young men who went into those facilities who then ended up in adult prison.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So then Glenn leaves, he escapes the boy's home and basically becomes, you know, he starts living on the street in King's Cross and you know, he talks about all the relationships that he formed with other kids at that time as well and how it actually felt to begin with safe for him because he was around like minded kids who'd also been through traumatic childhood and also just

[Michelle Laurie]

previously to going to this particular shelter, he was living in a squat, like so he's a little boy, he's 12 or 14 or something. And he talks about this squat being an empty building in King's Cross, like an old house or something, and it's full of adults, drug users, violence, all that kind of stuff. And then there was one room that these kids somehow managed to snaffle for themselves. So there was literally a kid's room in this environment.

[Matthew Tankard]

It'd be horrific. So then take that context in. He then finds out about a place called the Homeless Children's Refuge. This place was particularly appealing for kids because it was a kind of refuge you could go to where you could still do drugs, you could still drink alcohol, you could, you know, bring your partners over, you could share beds. It basically had no supervision. And there also just happened to be the men that run the place. Lots of them lived at the refuge as well. And they would share the bedrooms as well, sometimes with the kids.

[Michelle Laurie]

So as an adult, you look at that setup and you go, well, that's unsafe.

[Beef Promotion Voice]

Yeah.

[Michelle Laurie]

But as a teenager, you look at that setup and go, this is ace. They treat me like an adult, and they let me live my life and all that. But it feels to me, just even hearing it then makes me scared because I'm like, why are these adults who are supposed to be responsible for you allowing you to live dangerously in this premises? They were getting government funding, these guys, to run this refuge as well.

[Matthew Tankard]

And, you know. Yeah, like Simon Davies, one of the owners, had, you know, the support of really, really powerful, influential people, politicians. And again, it's like you can undergo one of two ways with that. It's one, you can get a bit conspiratorial about it and think that it's some larger influence pedophile ring. Or it could be the fact that, you know, these guys get away with doing this kind of things because they're

[Michelle Laurie]

so legit, because they're charming, they sound

[Matthew Tankard]

intelligent, they're friends with powerful people.

[Michelle Laurie]

And, I don't know, the Epstein situation's just made me so it's broken down my barriers and thinking about those things previously, I was like, no, there's no big pedophile rings made up of judges and cops and all that. I thought that was crazy. But then after the Epstein story, you go, well, there was.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yeah, yeah. And this place as well. The Homeless Children's Association Refuge was indeed run by a pedophile ring. Yes, it was Simon Davies. It was the other. You know, I'm using quotation marks like counselors that worked there.

[Ruby Bartis]

So how many of them work?

[Matthew Tankard]

And Simon Davies was Grant Lee Laree Morris, Paul Shetwind Jones and Ken Fogarty were all convicted in relation to the Children's Refuge.

[Belinda Bates]

So horrible.

[Michelle Laurie]

If you want to support Glenn Fisher, he has grown into such an amazing man. He has overcome this childhood. He took part in the prosecution of these men who were predators on him when he was a child. And he now. What's. Is it Step up, his organization, he's

[Matthew Tankard]

got a project called the Leg up, where they give gift cards and beds and they just help out, you know, people living on the streets, basically.

[Michelle Laurie]

Yes.

[Matthew Tankard]

And he's really active online as well. If you just type in Glenn Fisher, you'll find him on all social media. Just a really, really big advocate.

[Ruby Bartis]

That's so good that he's taken such a horrible experience and just turned it into something really that's incredibly powerful and it's incredible.

[Michelle Laurie]

And he speaks about kids, you know, kids. He speaks affectionately about kids that he knew who did not make it out in one piece. The way he has goes to show the kind of kids that were hanging out in this environment that society of their parents had thrown away and the futures they could expect to live, really. So if you want to support him, read his book, you know, download his book. I think there's an audio version of his book that he reads himself, Glenn Fisher's book, Predator's Paradise. Have a listen to the podcast and support him if you can.

[Matthew Tankard]

This is True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie.

[Michelle Laurie]

Welcome back to True Crime Tonight with Michelle Laurie. We are here because we're sort of in betwixt and in between two guests who are related.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yes.

[Michelle Laurie]

Last week we had Pete Bates on, and this week we have his missus, Belinda Bates. These two met. I'm gonna say they met at work, except one of them wasn't allowed to go home at the end of the day, and that's because the workplace was a prison. Yeah, Pete was a prisoner. He was serving time for murder. And Belinda was a guard, a prison guard. And she was there as part of a, what, Addiction unit. Yeah, right.

[Matthew Tankard]

Yes.

[Michelle Laurie]

Pete was a mentor because by that stage, he had overcome addiction in prison. So it's a great story. He front foots it.

[Content Warning Announcer]

Yeah.

[Michelle Laurie]

You know, he is a guy who says, yes, I committed a murder at 19. It was the worst thing anyone could possibly do. And I feel sorry.

[Matthew Tankard]

He was in a brawl, right?

[Michelle Laurie]

Yes, he was in a brawl. We're not excusing it. He's not excusing it. But what he has chosen to do with his life now, he and his wife Belinda, is to advocate for people in domestic and family violence situations. This is True Crime tonight. And joining us to talk about her life and her role in the Pete Bates Project is Belinda Bates.

[Belinda Bates]

Yeah, well, obviously I was working in the jail. I was working in the drug intervention unit. What had happened is that they get mentors up from the village to help out with all the prisoners that are in there to help with, you know, an intervention of drugs and alcohol abuse. One of those mentors was Peter.

[Michelle Laurie]

So the mentors are essentially they're a peer group. Right. They're also prisoners. I'm assuming they would have had some experience with addiction themselves and they're in recovery and so they're invited into help liaise with these guys who need to get into recovery.

[Belinda Bates]

That's correct. It just started off as just, you know, conversation about, you know, prisoners and I do case notes on, etc. And we just started to form, I wouldn't say like a friendship as such because it was, you know, frowned upon, but just, you know, we. We just clicked. Obviously. I was attracted to him.

[Michelle Laurie]

Chemistry you're talking. I think what you're talking about is chemistry.

[Belinda Bates]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can say that. Yeah. I think we got to a point where it was kind of like I kind of knew he felt the same way, so he left the unit. I then left the year after and decided to write to him. So that's when things started to happen. So, I mean, he still had like four and a half years to go. Yeah, like you had to be there, I guess. But it's just. It's just something that you just wouldn't think would happen at a place like that.

[Michelle Laurie]

Well, this is it. I've never. I mean, I've had very short visits to a couple of prisons, but realistically, I've never been inside a prison. Let's say most of us haven't. So to me it sounds like a sort of, in some ways a typical workplace romance. But in other ways, prison is such an unnatural environment. And I've met women before who in various ways started relationships with men while they were in prison long term. And some of them have gotten married. And then when the man has been released, it's just changed everything. Everything. Like trying to move that relationship into the real world, into just the normal world, has destroyed the relationship, actually. So you, you must have been conscious of that. And were you thinking about that, about, do I really know Peter? Is outside Peter the same as inside Peter?

[Belinda Bates]

Definitely, definitely had those thoughts. Look, I think a couple years in of us just, you know, seeing each other, communicating, going and visit his intentions. Look, I really believe that how he felt about me was real and true. Yeah. I just didn't really think about it until he came home, which was surreal. But I tell you what, very, very strong man. He took on, you know, being the partner, living in the outside world, taking on my children. They like being a father figure.

[Listener Libby]

Yeah.

[Belinda Bates]

And he just took it all on and it was fantastic. Still to this day.

[Michelle Laurie]

How many years has Pete been out?

[Belinda Bates]

He's been out for 12 years.

[Michelle Laurie]

Wow. My God. And you two are going strong.

[Belinda Bates]

11 years married. Yes.

[Michelle Laurie]

But also you paying it forward. Both of you are helping a lot of other people. So social media is really where your work is yours and Peter's is that. That's sort of where it's sitting.

[Belinda Bates]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Peter's, he's like, he's got a few digital books and there's a few free ones there. And, like, you know how to say it so you don't misread it as a free one. And then we've got 10 red flags. You're living with the danger of men. So it's just all little points. And I think what he's just trying to do from that type of platform is to just show women that these are the 10 red flag, just things to show women that if you are living with any of these, then this is the start of it. With a lot of domestic violence, when you see your bruises and, you know, people can see it. But this coercive control, which I have lived myself, is not seen. And it's. And it hasn't been a big thing for a long time. And I think this just finding the pattern and the language that women can actually see, because a lot of them say, oh, no, it's not me, not me. So, like, getting me out before it leads to death is the biggest thing for him. Like, he so, so passionate about getting this across to women.

[Michelle Laurie]

And I also think, don't underestimate it. And I think we can all be a bit guilty of that, of assuming it won't happen. Like, it's so unfathomable that to say, oh, yeah, her boyfriend or her husband's an asshole. And don't assume that he can't. That he's not a murderer. Don't assume that under an amount of pressure, an amount of what he perceives as humiliation, an amount of drugs and alcohol, all of those things that any woman could be next week's victim.

[Belinda Bates]

Absolutely, absolutely. It just takes like a. Just a trigger.

[Michelle Laurie]

It takes a minute as well.

[Belinda Bates]

Exactly.

[Michelle Laurie]

Your Instagram bio says, I analyze coercive and high control behavioural patterns in relationships before they escalate into cris. Early intervention behavioural insight. So how do you do that? How do you get to interact with people about their relationships? And, you know, do we come to you seeking advice or how does your work work?

[Belinda Bates]

Yeah, look, when women come to me, most of them go to Peter, but when they do come to me, I do revert them back to Peter because Peter does do specialized, you know, zoom calls or written stuff, but because I have that experience also being one of the coercive control survivors, I do believe that that intervention, young in age, was critical. When I read what some of these women have been through, my heart just aches for them and their children.

[Michelle Laurie]

Well, I mean, Peter and his mum, you know, I mean, he. He tells stories and I'm sure you've heard many more than I have, but I told a number of people after I spoke to him about the incident where his father poured petrol over him and threatened to set him on fire because his mum was packing to leave. How you ever, ever recover from that, I don't know. Thank you to our guest, Belinda Bates, and if you would like to listen to the full interview with her, you can check it out on our podcast, Australian True Crime, which is available on the iHeart app and wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening to True Crime tonight. You can join us every Sunday from 6 till 7. We'll see you next week.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Bye.