B (5:41)

So it makes total sense. Although it's not what we want it to be right, because we do want a protocol. We'd like symptoms to be addressed by the same thing and have it be simple, but it's anything but simple. But if you let go of that and just really look at the child as they are now, I love that you don't have a protocol, and that is dynamite. And I know other practitioners may because they sincerely feel like, hey, this is what I've found help. So there's nothing wrong with protocols, but if you really want, again, to help a child thrive to, as you talk about, to reach their full potential, there's no question you have to look at it. Each child is a very unique situation and take the time to go in with more of an open mind.

A (6:33)

Of course, there are a number of protocols that are out there that many children have benefited from, but then there are a certain subset of children who don't benefit from those protocols or, you know, I'll look at pieces of a protocol, and certainly there's, you know, pieces of it that I put together, and there are, you know, know a lot of, you know, commonalities to the things. The approach that I take to many of my patients. But again, they're, they're just. They're all very unique. And so, yeah, there's a place for protocols, for sure. If a parent can't, you know, afford to work with a practitioner who's running all the fancy tests, right, There's a place for maybe trying a protocol and seeing if it works for your child. But my approach, because I am a practitioner, is to see the child, you know, as a unique, you know, kind of a unique history, a unique story, unique genetics, microbiome, medications they've received, the diet they've are able to, you know, do, you know, so many aspects that make their needs unique that it's almost endless.

B (7:38)

Yeah, right now that makes sense to me. I think you started talking about genetic conditions, and I know that's kind of an area of focus. And then I know there's a lot of confusion in this because at least from my vantage point, you have a camp of people who are only focused on the genetics or the genes and feel like that's where to look. Some organizations are focusing on figuring out what gene causes what condition. And then on the other end, you may have people who are like, the genetics doesn't matter. It's all about environment. And I'm not going to spend too much time worrying about that. Obviously, the. The happy places in the middle. Right. But maybe there's a lot of confusion on this. So can you just high level explain the difference between genetic conditions versus like functional genomics, which are very different things.

A (8:23)

Yes, absolutely. So a genetic condition would be somebody would be a. Well, I will say a child, cause I work with children. But a person who has, you know, like in down syndrome, a whole extra chromosome or a piece of an extra chromosome or. Yeah, some conditions are like there's this one condition called Duke Q15 where there's just a piece of the chromosome that's duplicated and it's found on another chromosome. Right. So there's a lot of things that can happen genetically, right. In our bodies. There's mosaicism like my son has, where some of his cells have the full extra chromosome and some don't. Right. So there. And I think it's my story with my son that made me see this kind of unique approach. Right. Because he is so unique. He's one in a million. Not exactly, but. And so the. So that's a genetic condition, right, where there's a whole piece of an extra chromosome, there's a duplication or a deletion of a gene. So that's a genetic condition. Genomics or nutrigenomics is looking at what we call polymorphisms. And polymorphisms. You see that right? In the word, it's a change in shape. Poly means many, morph means shape. So it's a polymorphism, a change in shape in a gene, which is a nucleotide, which is a piece of a gene. So it's just a little shift, it's not a duplication or a deletion or a huge change. It's just a little difference in that nucleotide that will affect that gene in how an enzyme is created. Right? And so if we look at the most well known one, the MTHFR gene, right, that most people know about, but it's one piece of methylation, right? It's not the main one, it's a big piece. But if we look at that, for example, we know that there are Single nucleotide polymorphism SNPs in the gene that makes that enzyme, that will make that enzyme shape differently. Once the gene expresses it, that enzyme will be shaped differently. And when it's shaped differently, it functions differently, functions better, functions less efficiently. And so based on our knowledge of hundreds of these SNPs, we can assess, you know, a tendency for a child to need certain nutrients. Right? So we say nutrigenomics. So that's different than working with a genetic condition. And so, and I'm glad you brought up the. If I could speak a little bit to the two different camps that you spoke about, those who follow the genetics, the nutrigenomics, the, you know, a supplement for a SNP or a supplement for a pathway based on genetics. And then those in the other camp who don't look at that at all and just look at environment, you know, functional labs, diet, right. Kind of the other aspects of health, and you're right, somewhere in the middle is how we should approach it. And I personally, you know, I'm working with children with significant genetic conditions, right. Whole extra chromosome down syndrome is the majority of the patients I see, but we do see children with autism and other and other genetic conditions. Right. And the approach I take when I see these children is to, like I said, see them as unique. I set aside the fact that they have this dexochromosome for the first sort of portions of my appointment with them. And I see them as a child first. And so I practice what I call person first medicine. Right, we know about person first language. Right. It's not an autistic kid. I'm not a fan of that. It's not a Down syndrome kid. It's a child who has autism or a child who has down syndrome. They're a person first. Right. And it's kind of a respectful thing to do. So I practice what I call person first medicine. Right. They're a child first. And if this child has this symptom, you know, profound or not, whether it's a challenging behavior, if it's head banging or, you know, lack of speech development or significant constipation, I don't say, well, that's due to their genetic condition. I say, well, let's look at what are the other causes of this. I set their genetics aside and we have to look at them from the environmental standpoint. Diet, nutrition, infections, gut health. And then I bring in the genetic piece. I bring that in sort of second, third, fourth tier, right. Of treatment. And I look at, are they experiencing a deficiency, are they dehydrated, are they experiencing a. So many things, you know, and did I say infection, dehydration, a deficiency of a vitamin, etc. First sort of low hanging fruit first, as I see it, what's the, are they, are they deficient in iron? Right. That's huge, right? So low hanging fruit first. So I do lean into kind of more the environmental nurture side because nature could be genetics. Nurture is the kind of environment side. So looking at our functional labs, gut health, vitamin deficiencies, et cetera and Like I said, then I take in genetics into account. So, yeah, so that's my approach. And again, there are genetic. There are tendencies. That's a really important word I use a lot. There are tendencies. Right. If somebody has an nmthfr SNP or a whole extra chromosome of, you know, down syndrome. Right. There certainly are tendencies. They have a tendency to need more methylfolate. In down syndrome, there are tendencies, but they don't all have the same need. Right. Somebody with the MTHFR SNP will need a little bit more likely, you know, methylfolate. Some need a lot, some need a little. It depends on their toxin exposure, other, you know, methylation, SNPs. So. So yeah, so tendencies is an important word I use and I think it's important that you said to recognize those two camps and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

B (14:48)

Yeah, I mean it's all about collecting data and to bet to understand what's happening from a genetic perspective. And your new to genomics, these are all clues that kind of indicate, you know, how somebody might be wired. But. But it doesn't necessarily mean what's happening right now. Right. So it's information that's useful to take in with other labs, perhaps your personal observation. And so, yeah, you may not have a protocol, but you do at least have a sequence in terms of meeting that child where they are and approaching it with that more of a beginner's mind. And I love that you also, like, I'm not really focused on the label because the label might be useful to some degree. But otherwise, when you're really trying to figure out what's going to help this person, it's helpful to drop all the labels and again, just meet them where they are.

A (15:42)

Labels are helpful for insurance companies and providing therapies and getting those things. But as a practitioner, it doesn't help me necessarily. Again, there are certain. If a child has a diagnosis of autism, the degree is so broad and that's a whole other topic. It's a little too broad right now. But, you know, I say, well, how does that, how does that look for your child? Is what I usually ask. You know, and then I get into kind of the deeper questions. We can't just, you know, say autism. They need this. Right. There's a lot coming out in the news right now. I don't want to get too into some of them that we can, but that people are looking for that one answer. What's the one? Cause what's the one thing? And you know, as humans, we like and scientists we like to put things in boxes and we like to make things simple. Of course. Right. As a parent watching this, we want easy answers for our kids. And while some things can be simple, as a whole, it's fairly complex. Right. All the many causes that are contributing to the challenges that our children are facing today, you know, with or without a diagnosis. You know, again, I'm kind of leaning into another topic, is that, you know, our. But this lends to the biochemical individuality, is that we are exposed to so many toxins and our diet is so different these days that it is taking its toll on our children and our genetics and our biochemical individuality is dictating how well we can tolerate this environment that we're in today with toxins. And the complexity of the world today kind of lends to the complexity of these conditions, unfortunately. So, yeah, so we like to put things in little boxes and make it simple. And we want that one answer, but it's not that simple. One more minute on this. In down syndrome, for example, there's research today in the pharmaceutical realm where they are looking at the extra chromosome and they're looking for drug targets on how to downregulate the genes on that extra chromosome. And I'm telling you right now, that is not the answer. Right. The genetics of these children is only a part of what they're experiencing. We see a profound variety or a large variety of the expression of. Of down syndrome. We call it the phenotype. For parents watching. Your genotype is your genetic. Your phenotype is kind of what you look like and how your genes are expressing. So the phenotype of down syndrome is broad. Right. We have some individuals who are struggling much more than others and some individuals who are actors on TV and going to college and getting married and living fairly independently. And so my biggest interest is trying to figure out why we have, at least in this population of children, this huge variable phenotype, Right? And that's that biochemical individuality. Why do we have children who are struggling more with whatever the diagnosis is, whether it's down syndrome or autism? What is it that's contributing to that extra struggle? I'm telling you, it's not the genetics in down syndrome. It's not their genetics, because we wouldn't have those individuals who are on TV and acting and lecturing at TED talks even. And so it's their gut health, their environment, their deficiencies that are contributing. So, yeah, so I look at the complexity of it, unfortunately.

B (19:30)

Yeah, we don't want it to be Complex. But the reality is it is. But once you understand that there's so much that you can do. And that's where again, and I hear what you're saying, because I'm one of those parents who was, and still am somebody who really does want the quick. I mean, who wouldn't want the quick fix. And recently, yes, I think what you're alluding to, just because of recent announcements, a lot of people are just really kind of going full force ahead about Luke of Orin and whether that is something that they should do, which again, for some kids that could be great. But it really does come down, as you pointed out, and I know what you do for a living is really helping parents figure out what are the key root causes for this particular child. And leucovorin is not the one size fits all for everyone, although it can be extremely helpful for some kids. So that's where the idea of the individuality is so important. And focusing on the right root causes in the right order perhaps is part of the. The art of this. Right. Knowing where to focus when.

A (20:38)

Yeah. And that's where the testing, you know, comes into play. You know, testing is the cornerstone of functional medicine. Right. We've gotta run tests on our kids sometimes that's a blood draw. Right. But oftentimes, you know, we do urine tests and stool analysis and all these kind of tests. But with the Luke of Orin, right. That frat test is, you know, extremely important, extremely important to help guide the. Not only should I use leucovorin, but how much leucovorin. And then, you know, we need the blood test to look at. Does the child need, you know, additional B12 in addition to that? I do worry about parents online right now who are just grasp. I mean, they're grasping for things, of course, but giving, you know, high dose folinic acid. I just saw a post in a group this morning of a parent who was giving lots of, you know, high dose folinic acid to their child and he was having a negative reaction. Right. And she was asking the group, other parents, you know, what to do. And I think it was like aggression and it was a significant reaction. Not sleeping, Literally not sleeping. And so this is where a practitioner would help kind of, kind of guide that. And is that the right approach for that child? Right. And the testing would kind of tell us if it's the right approach. So the tests, blood, urine, stool, spinal tap, if you're working with a neurologist, very important. In some cases they'll do MRIs, EEGs, so for some children who are struggling a bit more, these tests are extremely important. But because leucovorin might not be the.

B (22:20)

Right approach, it's exciting that that's been approved and there's a lot of momentum there. But at the same time, again, there a number of factors, and you've highlighted several of them. And then that's the art of being able to work with a practitioner who has that more expansive view. And I would argue you're one of the few practitioners who really seems to have sincere curiosity about what might be happening with a child. Where I think every pediatrician would say maybe that they are, or every practitioner, but not everyone really embraces that and has that. I'm going to look at this individual and again, not go in with any preconceptions and really see what that person needs now and build a treatment plan accordingly.

A (23:06)

Right. Yeah. I think, again, my son's own healing journey helped kind of guide my curiosity, as you say. Thank you for that.

B (23:16)

Can you talk a little bit more about that?

A (23:18)

Yeah. So his story is that, right? Yeah, sure. Yeah. So he was born with, you know, we got the diagnosis that he had mosaic down syndrome. I think he was about three days old, something like that. And he was in the NICU for a very short amount, about a week or so. NG tube fed, failure to thrive. Right. Struggling in a lot of areas. And as I. And a lot got blamed on that he had this mosaic down syndrome. I'm not going to kind of tell you his whole percents and all that, but it's not a large percent that he has this extra chromosome in his cells. It's only in a certain percent of his cells. And so it didn't explain everything when I look back. And so I know that there were other things that were affecting him. For example, he was under the phototherapy lights. Right. Many children have experienced the bilirubin, the Billy lights. He was very jaundice when he was first born because we didn't clamp the cord. So he got lots of blood, the blood broke down and that creates bilirubin in your body. So he had very high jaundice, high bilirubin levels, and was very jaundiced. So he was under the lights for a good two to three days, where many children are under the phototherapy lights for 812 hours, something like that. And those phototherapy lights cause a vitamin B2 deficiency. Right. It's why we keep our. I could give so many factoids on kind of what I do, but it's why we Keep our B vitamins in a brown bottle. You know, you never see B vitamins in a bottle. That's, you know, you can see through because light will degrade vitamin B2. And then vitamin B2 causes swallowing issues, upper motor neuron dysfunction, and he had an NG tube and swallowing issues. So it doesn't always cause this for children. The phototherapy lies, but it can cause a vitamin B2 deficiency. So. So once we got him through this kind of failure to thrive and got him feeding better and growing better, I started to see that some of the symptoms of down syndrome were starting to kind of fall away a little bit. Yes, he has mosaic down syndrome, but he walked late and he talked late, and we've done lots of different therapies with him and supported him. But what I feel helped him the most, and maybe I'm a little biased, was his really healthy diet, like, incredibly healthy diet from day one. Right. And he's never been a picky eater. I'm so blessed. Right. And I feel so strongly. I feel so much for parents who have picky eaters because it's such a hurdle. But his biggest healing therapy was food. I mean, I'm a naturopath. I'm a little biased, but I know for a fact that that was his biggest healing kind of tool for him. So as we move forward with a healthy diet and running labs on him and addressing his unique needs, he's now 18 years old, and we dropped his IEPs. He has a 504, and he's hopefully going to college next year. And we still struggle in some areas, but he's a national Honor Society because he works incredibly hard at his classes. Takes a little more time, but he works incredibly hard. So he's doing really well. So his healing journey really deeply guides my practice in supporting parents. Because I've been there, right. Oh, I could get emotional here, Lynn, because I've been there. Right. And I know the struggles of every day. I don't know what it's like to have multiple children because I only have one. But I can imagine the struggles day to day of trying to feed all your children and getting them off to school and the teacher meetings and going to work, and then you've got to give this supplement regimen. Right. So I do help parents with kind of what are our priorities? Right. Sure. We want to give our kid every single supplement, opportunity, therapy, but we can't. We just. I mean, at the end of the day, right. I don't judge parents at all. When I write a protocol or protocol When I write a plan for a child and then they follow up, I say, how much were you able to do? You know, no judgment on, like, I couldn't give this supplement. I couldn't give that. I only gave it three days a week. You know, I couldn't do it every day. Let's just, we just move forward with what we've got and what we can do. And then I help them prioritize. Well, if you can only give one supplement, you've got to give the vitamin D or you got to give the whatever's low, you know, or whatever their need is. So. So I definitely kind of taken that into account. The everyday struggle of a parent trying to, you know, support their child and again, their, you know, their unique needs. So, yeah, it's tough.

B (28:13)

It can be. And yeah, so much of what you're saying, it's very familiar to me. My son's 18 as well now and wildly unrecognizable to where he started. So I know firsthand, you know, firsthand, that so much can be done to help these kids who have these challenges early on. And again, if you're really focusing on the right root causes in the right areas, you know, that's where so much can change. And I think, I guess one of the questions I wanted to ask you, which I think you've already answered it, is if a parent's just starting out and kind of early in the process, is there anything, you know, with your more. With your, your mom hat, as opposed to your practitioner hat, like, what is the one thing you'd say, hey, listen, you really don't want to miss this. And I'm guessing you would say it's the power of food and diet. And I would agree with you. It's, it's not, not very sexy. But that is so critical. And then it lays the foundation. But is there anything else that, you know, looking in the rear view mirror that you think moms or dads really would benefit from understanding better early on?

A (29:22)

Well, if I, if I could speak about food a little bit, though, is, is to, you know, we've got to look at ourselves first, look at what's in our cupboard. What's. What are we reaching for? Right. We've got to make. Parents have to make modifications to what they're eating and bringing into their home and eating in front of their children. And do you know that a child, there's research on this. A child is more likely to eat vegetables if they see other people and adults around them eating vegetables and smiling and Enjoying it. Right. Literally. Right.

B (29:54)

That's the twist. Because otherwise I'm nodding in agreement. But yeah, it's the idea of parents enjoying eating it, not suffering through it. So yes, parents, you lead the way.

A (30:03)

Yeah, exactly. And sometimes that's not enough for many children. Right. Picky eating can be significant. Biochemical kind of roots to that. But yeah, certainly looking deep at food and food in our family has been. I see it as a cultural thing. It's culturally part of what we do and modifying somebody's diet and how they eat. I had a medical student who was shadowing me years ago and she learned this from another teacher who said it's like changing someone's religion. Right. It can be as deep as changing someone's religion, especially if they're vegan or vegetarian and you want them to, you know, get the benefits of meat in their diet, as I see it. And so it can be significant. Trying to. It's a real big hurdle to get over. You can't out supplement a bad diet. Right. No supplement can replace what vegetables, fruits, healthy grass fed meat, you know, provides us. So yes, the supplements are important, but they don't replace what a healthy diet does. So looking back, what would I tell a new parent to do? One therapy that I would look at further is primitive reflex. Primitive reflex integration. Right. I think a lot of children have what are called retained reflexes. And this isn't the reflex where you tap your knee and your leg kind of jerks. These are reflexes. The moral reflex is the most common one that parents know as the palmar reflex. You put your finger in a baby's hand and they grasp. We have about. I think there are eight or so, maybe a dozen. I'm not an expert in primitive reflex integration, but there are these reflexes that should integrate or go away as the child gets older and matures. I think they're all just about gone around 12 to 18 months old. Again, I'm not an expert. And so if they don't integrate or go away and the child retains them like a moro reflex, the moral reflex is sort of a startle reflex. It's the one where when a child is sort of laid back quickly, their arms go out in a flare. Right. That's the moral reflex. So if a child retains this, they will startle easily. They'll have anxiety, sensitivity to hearing, lots of symptoms. Imagine a child with a retained moral reflex in a second grade classroom with lots of second graders running around. Right. So reflex integration helps to give them certain exercises to retain those to Integrate those. And so I think that's a really important therapy that parents should look at. Yeah, for sure.

B (32:48)

Yeah. No, well, thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, I've recorded a few dynamite episodes on that very topic. People can go to autismparentingsecrets.com, you can see podcast by category, and there is one for primitive reflexes. So I appreciate you bringing that up, but with going back to the diet concept. Right. I love that you. How you phrase it, like it's kind of like a religion. And I see that for sure. And I guess the only thing I would add on top of what you're saying is in order to make that shift to embracing food and really kind of getting behind it, the one thing that a parent has to embrace is inconvenience, because it'll never be as convenient as fast food, processed food and the like. And we all know that that stuff isn't pro health. But to take the time to, you know, carefully select your ingredients and to spend more time in the kitchen in this day and age, that's just inconvenient. People aren't wanting to spend more time, but if they do, the payoff is not a small payoff. So, again, the power of food is not to be underestimated. And maybe while you're still trying to find that quick fix and perhaps you can figure out things that might really help your child, focusing on food and cleaning up the diet and feeding a more nourishing diet is never a bad move.

A (34:13)

Yeah, absolutely. I spend a lot of time in the kitchen. If I'm not here, seeing patients, charting, speaking on podcasts, what have you. I'm tutoring my son. And physics. I'm going through high school my second time around in many ways, or I'm cooking a good pot of stew or soup or from scratch, everything from scratch. In our house, we grow vegetables in our garden. Parents don't have to go that far. But then, if possible, if the child is able to, getting them involved, getting the toys of food again, making it part of your culture. Puzzles with vegetables on them and the toy vegetables and letting them cut an avocado with a plastic knife. We used the egg slicer for my son to slice mushrooms. That little. The egg slicer tool. And so we had him at the kitchen counter when he was 2 years old or so, up on a chair on a platform, cutting veggies in the kitchen. So he's always been in the kitchen with us making a mess. Right. Let them make a mess with their food. And so it's not just something I was doing to my son, forcing on my son, giving him. It was. It's. It's part of our whole culture. Right. Yeah. Books about it, you know, songs about it. Right. We used to sing the sweet potato song and, you know, all sorts of, you know, fun things. So, yeah, lots of ways to kind of bring it into, you know, into the home other than just like forcing it into their mouth. Right.

B (35:46)

I love it. And yeah, it's all about helping kids. And now in your case, your son's case, a young adult having an intrinsic appreciation of food and to really have it be not something that they're kind of being coerced to do, it's more within them. So, no, I really appreciate you and thank you for sharing your story with your son. I think that's incredibly inspirational. I can only imagine how much effort and the ups and downs that you may have experienced, and I can relate to that myself. But thank you for sharing that and for also kind of revealing a little bit more about what it's like to work with a practitioner who is curious and who is, again, meeting the child where they uniquely are. So the concept of biochemical individuality, I think, is a powerful one, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain that to our listeners. Is there anything, you know, as you're sitting here now, is there any other message that you'd like to leave parents with and also tell them where they can find out more about you?

A (36:50)

Oh, thank you. Yeah, one message I have is the answer. I'm going to get emotional again. Len. The answer for your child is out there somewhere. Right? The answer for your child. It's there. Right. And that's how I see it. It's almost an energetic thing. The answer is there. I just need to find it. Right. And so our job is to uncover the layers and the clues and to find that answer for your child. It may not be one answer, maybe several answers, but the answer is out there. And it's a matter of working with the right practitioner to find that answer or those answers. And so it's there for each and every child, and there is healing that is possible for each and every child. Our body is constantly working on healing itself and the brain, and so especially in children. So healing is possible at any age and any stage. And so that would be my final kind of message. And my website is pearsoncenter.com, p e I r s o n center.com and I have a Facebook page for pearsoncenter.com, little bit on Instagram, but maybe I'm old. I'm on Facebook, so that's where you can find me.

B (38:04)

Yeah, yeah, no worries. Well, all those links will be in the show notes. And Dr. Eric, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your story, to share your message, and definitely look forward to having you on again down the road.

A (38:15)

Thanks, Lynn. Appreciate it.

B (38:17)

Your child needs you running on all cylinders now. And the fastest way to rise is with personalized one on one support. Get started today. Today. Go to elevatehowyunavigate.com.