Autocracy in America: Bonus Episode – Goldberg on Signalgate
Host: The Atlantic
Release Date: April 11, 2025

Introduction

In this bonus episode of Autocracy in America, Jeffrey Goldberg, The Atlantic's Editor-in-Chief, discusses the controversial "Signalgate" incident. Accidentally being added to a government group chat on Signal containing leading members of the Trump administration, Goldberg became the focal point of a significant media and political storm. This in-depth conversation delves into the broader implications of authoritarian tactics in the United States, the role of journalism in upholding democracy, and the challenges faced by media institutions in such a polarized environment.

Background on Signalgate

The episode begins with Anne introducing the situation where Jeffrey Goldberg was inadvertently included in a high-level government Signal chat. This incident quickly escalated as members of the Trump administration reacted vehemently, denying the authenticity of the chat and launching personal attacks against Goldberg.

Jeffrey Goldberg [01:38]:
"So this is the second standing ovation I've witnessed this week for Jeffrey Goldberg."

Goldberg recounts the immediate aftermath of the incident, highlighting the administration's initial denial and subsequent smear campaign aimed at discrediting him and The Atlantic.

The Atlantic's Decision to Publish

The conversation shifts to the internal deliberations at The Atlantic regarding the publication of the chat screenshots. Ian, likely Dr. Ian Bremmer, provides insight into the ethical and national security considerations that influenced their decision.

Ian [03:25]:
"I felt like we had to get out of it. ... We feel like we had to get out of it."

Faced with conflicting pressures—balancing the public's right to know against potential national security risks—the team ultimately decided transparency was paramount. This decision was made despite the administration's attempts to suppress the information and tarnish Goldberg's reputation.

Authoritarian Tactics and Media Attacks

Goldberg and Ian delve deeper into the administration's strategy of undermining media credibility through personal attacks and delegitimizing reputable institutions. They draw parallels between these tactics and those employed by autocratic regimes worldwide.

Ian [04:26]:
"Donald Trump has been running that play, the Atlantic as a failing."

Jeffrey Goldberg [08:32]:
"They can only do what they want to do if no one fights them, if no one argues with them, if no one counters it."

This segment emphasizes how attacking the messenger is a common authoritarian tactic to control the narrative and stifle dissent.

Impact on Journalism and Press Freedom

The discussion highlights the increasing pressures on journalists to conform or face personal and professional repercussions. Goldberg shares personal anecdotes about being labeled negatively by political figures to illustrate the hostile environment facing the press.

Jeffrey Goldberg [11:10]:
"Mike Waltz can call me a loser if he wants, but at least I know how to text."

This exchange underscores the challenges journalists face in maintaining integrity and truthfulness amidst relentless attacks.

Political Strategy of the Trump Administration

Goldberg and Ian analyze the Trump administration's refusal to admit mistakes and their tendency to double down on controversial actions. They compare this approach to historical political maneuvers, demonstrating how it deviates from previous administrations' responses to crises.

Jeffrey Goldberg [15:45]:
"What's different about these guys? What is it that they're doing? That's what it is."

Ian [16:26]:
"He's discovered a pathway to success that no other American politician that we can think of has ever discovered."

Their analysis suggests that this unyielding stance is a deliberate strategy to consolidate power and reshape political norms.

Authoritarian Appeal and Public Perception

The conversation explores why authoritarian figures garner support despite undermining democratic principles. They discuss the psychological and societal factors that contribute to this phenomenon, drawing on historical and contemporary examples.

Ian [19:31]:
"Why do people, so many people, why are they drawn to the autocratic figure?"

Jeffrey Goldberg [21:17]:
"There's no violence... the pressure that's being put about on people is pressure to do with careers and status."

This section delves into the nuanced reasons behind the public's susceptibility to authoritarian rhetoric, despite inherent contradictions with democratic values.

Strategies to Combat Authoritarianism

Goldberg and Ian propose strategies to counteract authoritarian tendencies, emphasizing the importance of solidarity among institutions, the role of historical awareness, and the necessity of upholding journalistic integrity.

Jeffrey Goldberg [24:44]:
"They’re also looking at picking out individuals... intimidating them that way."

Ian [26:02]:
"What do people and institutions have to do to expand their thinking or to not have a failure of imagination about what might be coming?"

They advocate for collective action, resilience, and a steadfast commitment to truth as essential measures to safeguard democracy.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a call to action, urging listeners to remain informed, support independent journalism, and recognize the subtle yet pervasive authoritarian tactics undermining American democracy. Goldberg and Ian underscore the critical role of transparency and public vigilance in resisting efforts to erode democratic institutions and values.

Jeffrey Goldberg [27:14]:
"There is actually something intuitive about democracy as well as dictatorship."

Ian [27:32]:
"The very fact that 'America First' is rooted... means that we've been through times like this before."

By drawing on historical context and current events, the episode reinforces the importance of understanding and actively opposing authoritarianism to preserve the nation's democratic fabric.

Key Quotes

• Ian [03:25]:
  "We feel like we had to get out of it."

• Jeffrey Goldberg [08:32]:
  "They can only do what they want to do if no one fights them..."

• Jeffrey Goldberg [15:45]:
  "What is it that they're doing? That's what it is."

• Ian [19:31]:
  "Why are they drawn to the autocratic figure?"

• Jeffrey Goldberg [24:44]:
  "They're intimidating individuals that way."

• Jeffrey Goldberg [27:14]:
  "There's something intuitive about democracy as well as dictatorship."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights from the bonus episode of Autocracy in America, providing listeners with a thorough understanding of the Signalgate incident and its broader implications for American democracy and journalistic integrity.