Podcast Summary:

Autocracy in America – “ICE and the National Guard Are Acting with Impunity”
The Atlantic | Released January 9, 2026 | Host: Ann Applebaum

Episode Overview

This inaugural episode of the new season examines the dramatic transformation of U.S. immigration enforcement and domestic military presence under the Trump administration. Ann Applebaum, drawing on reporting, personal accounts, and legal analysis, explores how agencies like ICE and the National Guard have been retooled into paramilitary forces operating with increasing impunity—not just impacting undocumented immigrants, but also American citizens. The episode delves into personal stories, legal challenges, and the chilling effects of militarized policies on democracy and public life.

Key Discussion Points

1. The Militarization of ICE and Its Impact on Americans (00:38–07:00)

• George Ritez Jr.’s Story:

  • Personal Testimony
    • George, a 25-year-old U.S. citizen, details a harrowing encounter with ICE on his way to work as a security guard in Ventura, California.
    • Despite identifying himself as a citizen and veteran, ICE agents become hostile, surrounding his car, deploying tear gas, smashing his window, and assaulting him with pepper spray before detaining him for three days without rights or explanation.
    • He misses his daughter’s third birthday and is released with no apology:
      • “So I basically was locked up and missed my daughter's birthday for no fucking reason. And they just were silent.” – George Ritez Jr. (04:43)

• Systemic Shift:

  • Ann Applebaum connects George’s experience to a broader pattern—over 170 U.S. citizens have been detained by ICE (05:20).
  • Recent ICON incidents include fatal shootings and collateral deaths.

2. Legal Perspectives and ICE Oversight (07:15–16:48)

• Interview with Margie O’Haron, Brennan Center for Justice

  • Rights & Civil Liberties:

    • ICE should immediately release detained citizens—failures reflect wider “unchecked, chaotic deportation and arrest.” (07:15)
    • The immigration system’s civil nature contrasts with the criminal system's rights (e.g., counsel); however, constitutional rights still apply to immigrants and citizens alike.
      • “Fourth Amendment and the Fifth Amendment…apply to immigrants in the same way that they apply to citizens.” – Margie O’Haron (07:41)

  • Funding & Expansion:

    • Trump’s "One Big Beautiful Act" allocates $170 billion to border enforcement—triple previous ICE budgets, far surpassing total state/local law enforcement spending.
      • “All states and local law enforcement…spend about $135 billion. The money going to ICE is triple what they were authorized before.” (09:05)
    • Funding for courts and judges lags severely, with a 400% rise in detention capacity versus only 14% increase in judges; over 80 judges fired and replaced by military lawyers.
      • This suggests a push for rubber-stamp deportations.

  • Scope and Targets:

    • ICE raids increasingly affect civilians, not just those with criminal records—70% of arrested have no criminal background.
      • “You’ve taken your FBI agent, …trained to go after a drug trafficker or child predator, and instead you have them going after a landscaper or a guy who works at the car wash to go after civilians.” (12:14)
    • Military tactics and gear are being deployed upon civilian populations, including “zip tying the elderly and children” (15:00).

  • Legal Challenges & Impunity:

    • Although courts have issued injunctions to limit ICE abuses, higher courts (Supreme Court) have stayed such rulings.
    • Oversight offices have been dismantled, leaving complaints and court challenges as the only avenues for accountability.
      • “We’re granting a heavily armed federal police force permission to break the law with impunity. They are not punished…and no one is keeping track.” – Ann Applebaum (14:15)

3. ICE as a Domestic Paramilitary and the War on Terror Paradigm (14:50–16:48)

• Militarization Parallels:
  • ICE is using military tactics, weapons, and propaganda (e.g., recruiting videos reminiscent of military ops in Iraq).
  • Raids justified by claims (e.g., targeting "Venezuelan gangs") often entail detaining only ordinary, law-abiding people.

4. The Domestic Deployment of the National Guard (16:48–25:35)

• Interview with Liza Goitein, Brennan Center for Justice

  • Historical Precedents & Legal Framework:

    • Trump’s use of the National Guard is unprecedented—historically, domestic deployments were rare (only 30 in U.S. history), usually at the request of states or for civil unrest—never as general law enforcement (17:42).
    • Current deployments are justified under tenuous interpretations of laws like 10 USC §12406, representing a clear break from precedent (18:41).

  • Emergency Powers and Authoritarian Tactics:

    • The recurring invocation of “emergencies” follows a classic authoritarian playbook—manufacturing or exploiting crises to expand unchecked powers.
      • “It’s a hallmark of authoritarian regimes…emergency powers free leaders from legal constraints.” – Liza Goitein (19:37)

  • Military as a Tool of Political Control:

    • Using the military in political battles damages morale and trust.
      • “It undermines public trust in the military…when it loses that, then it loses some of its legitimacy in the eyes of Americans.” – Liza Goitein (21:40)
    • There’s a danger military service will become politicized or attract only those who endorse the regime’s agenda.

  • Chilling Effect on Public Life & Voting:

    • The presence of armed agents may deter civic participation, especially around elections.
      • “You have to worry…that we’re seeing a routinization of the use of the military domestically…first it started with protests…then general crime control…next could be claims of voter fraud.” – Liza Goitein (22:23)
    • Federal law bars military or armed agents from being present at polling stations, but the administration’s willingness to break norms and laws is cause for alarm.

  • Defining a Police State:

    • Normalization of military presence has led citizens to alter their behavior due to fear.
      • “To me, a police state is a place where the presence of…federal military or law enforcement is so heavy and the chill on people's exercise of their rights is so acute that people are really kind of living in fear and they're changing the way they behave.” – Liza Goitein (24:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [04:43] George Ritez Jr.:
  “So I basically was locked up and missed my daughter's birthday for no fucking reason. And they just were silent.”

• [07:41] Margie O’Haron:
  “Fourth Amendment and the Fifth Amendment…apply to immigrants in the same way that they apply to citizens. There's no distinction in the law.”

• [09:05] Margie O’Haron:
  “It's $170 billion over four years…The money going to ICE is triple what they were authorized before.”

• [14:15] Ann Applebaum:
  “We’re granting a heavily armed federal police force permission to break the law with impunity. They are not punished…and no one is keeping track.”

• [15:00] Margie O’Haron:
  “They're zip tying the elderly [and] children as a way of evacuating a building. These are tools that are used by armed soldiers against enemies, not that we use against civilians.”

• [17:42] Liza Goitein:
  “No precedent has used the military domestically in the way that President Trump is using the military, never for street crime.”

• [19:37] Liza Goitein:
  “It’s a hallmark of authoritarian regimes…emergency powers free leaders from legal constraints that they would otherwise face.”

• [21:56] Ann Applebaum:
  “If [the military] loses…legitimacy, then it loses some of its legitimacy in the eyes of Americans.”

• [24:30] Liza Goitein:
  “A police state is a place where…the presence…is so heavy and the chill on people's exercise of their rights is so acute…they’re changing the way they behave.”

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:38–05:20: George Ritez Jr.’s personal account of ICE detention
• 07:15–16:48: Margie O’Haron on the legal landscape and militarization of ICE
• 17:42–25:35: Liza Goitein on National Guard deployment and democratic risks

Tone & Themes

• The tone is urgent, critical, and focused on real human impact as well as institutional dangers.
• Applebaum’s narration emphasizes historical parallels and the erosion of democratic norms.
• Expert guests ground the discussion in constitutional law and precedents while warning of long-term consequences.

Final Takeaways

• The Trump administration’s immigration enforcement and domestic deployment strategies represent a radical break from U.S. traditions and legal norms.
• The normalization of military and paramilitary tactics within civilian contexts threatens constitutional rights, public trust in institutions, and the core values of American democracy.
• Listeners are left with a prescient warning: these developments extend beyond immigration, affecting all Americans and reshaping the nation’s political landscape.