Podcast Summary: Autocracy in America – "The Advocate"

Host: Garry Kasparov, The Atlantic
Guest: Oleksandra Matviichuk (Head, Center for Civil Liberties & 2022 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate)
Release Date: August 29, 2025

Overview

In this powerful episode, Garry Kasparov speaks with Ukrainian human rights advocate Oleksandra Matviichuk about the lived realities of authoritarian encroachment, the true stakes of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and how Western complacency has dangerous consequences. They delve into the historic roots of Ukraine’s struggle for self-determination, the real meaning of freedom in the Ukrainian context, and why supporting Ukraine is not only a moral but also a strategic imperative for democratic societies—including the United States.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Daily Reality of War in Ukraine

• [03:06] Matviichuk recounts a webinar interrupted by an air raid, highlighting the omnipresent threat and loss:
  • “The war, it's a lottery. When we go to bed, we have no idea whether or not we will get up next morning.” – Matviichuk [03:27]
  • Russians are "trying to steal everything from us… our freedom, our democratic choice, our families, our joy, our love. And we decided not to provide them this chance.” [03:56]

2. Ukraine’s Distinct Identity & Russification

• [05:02] Matviichuk discusses forced cultural assimilation under Soviet rule:
  • She learned her family’s native language—Ukrainian—was suppressed for generations.
  • “My father… switched from Ukrainian to Russian… This is how this policy of colonization works, that your language, your culture is something secondary.” [06:01]
  • Emphasizes freedom as an existential value for Ukrainians:
    “Freedom for us is a value which helps us to survive.” [08:07]

3. Historic Rift with Russia & the "Revolution of Dignity"

• [09:10] The real break from Russia occurred in 2014, during the Euromaidan protests:
  • Mass protests against pro-Russian authoritarianism.
  • "All of us want the same future for us and for our children… democratic, peaceful and independent.” – Matviichuk [09:51]

4. The Roots and Global Stakes of Putin’s War

• [10:24] The war began in 2014, not 2022:
  • Putin’s fear is not NATO, but “the idea of freedom.” [10:44]
  • War is about authoritarianism vs democracy:
    “China helps Russia… Iran provided rockets and drones… North Korea sent troops. Because all these regimes… have the same idea what a human being is. They see people as an object to be controlled.” [11:29]
  • Empire logic: “Ukraine is a tool. And empire has a center but has no borders.” [12:17]

5. Putin as an Existential Threat—War Crimes and Abductions

• [12:57] Putin is the “biggest child kidnapper in the world.”
  • International Criminal Court warrants for Putin and his child commissioner.
  • Story of Ukrainian children’s author Volodymyr Vakulenko, abducted and killed:
    “Why Russians killed [a] children writer?... Because they could. Because Russian occupation is not just changing one state flag to another… It’s enforced disappearances, torture, rape, denial of your identity.” [14:05]
  • “Occupation just makes human suffering invisible.” [15:38]

6. Western Misunderstanding & Missed Opportunities

• [19:34] On U.S. and EU responses:
  • Weak sanctions and “business as usual” in 2014 emboldened Putin.
  • “When the west failed test in 2014, Putin decided okay, I can move further.” [20:04]
• Two narratives in Western support:
  • “Let's help Ukraine not to fail” vs “help Ukraine to win.”
  • The difference “has practical meaning… in types of weapons, gravity of sanctions, and speed of decisions.” [22:09]

7. Peace, Escalation, and Negotiations with Dictators

• [27:03] Past experiences show peace deals with Putin equate to military preparation, not a true ceasefire.
  • “Putin will stop only when he will be stopped. The problem is that the only language which dictator understand, it's the language of strength.” [27:52]
  • “They see all other attempt to negotiate as a sign of weakness. They can imitate the peace process… to prepare better.” [28:12]

8. How the War Ends

• [29:29] “This war will end with strength, and strength it's not just military performance… We are fighting for something which have no limitation in national borders. It’s freedom.” – Matviichuk [29:35]
  • The line between the free world and tyranny runs through Ukraine.

9. A Lesson for the Free World—Freedom Has a Price

• [30:24] Kasparov: “Freedom has a price. And you have to be willing to pay this price… There will be pivotal moments in history where you have to show your readiness to pay and to make a sacrifice. And this… has been forgotten in the free world. And [is] being reminded every day by immense Ukrainian sacrifice, resilience, and devotion to the cause of freedom.” [30:46]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Forced Russification:
  “I understood that my native language was stolen from me—that it’s a huge historical injustice.” – Matviichuk [06:24]

• On Ukrainian Freedom:
  “Freedom for us is a value which help us to survive.” – Matviichuk [08:22]

• On the Nature of War:
  “Putin started this war for something bigger. He want to occupy and destroy the whole country and move further… Ukraine is not just a goal. Ukraine is a tool.” – Matviichuk [11:59, 12:11]

• On Western Policy:
  “It’s Russia who has to be afraid to cross red lines, not the West.” – Matviichuk [25:23]

• On the Price of Freedom:
  “We are paying the highest price just for this chance [for freedom].” – Matviichuk [30:09]
  “Freedom has a price… There will be pivotal moments in history where you have to show your readiness to pay and to make a sacrifice.” – Kasparov [30:24]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:06 Daily wartime reality in Ukraine
• 05:02 Russification and personal family history
• 09:10 The 2014 “Revolution of Dignity”
• 10:24 War’s roots: authoritarianism vs democracy
• 12:57 Putin’s human rights crimes & occupation realities
• 19:34 Western response from 2014 to present
• 27:03 Peace negotiations: lessons and hard truths
• 29:29 How the war ends and its global meaning

Takeaways

• Ukraine’s resistance is about more than national survival—it is a front in the battle between autocracy and democracy worldwide.
• Western complacency and pragmatism, focused on “not escalating,” embolden authoritarian aggression.
• Freedom, for Ukrainians, is not just an abstract value but a means of survival and identity preservation.
• Only strength—military, moral, and spiritual—can halt autocratic expansion.
• The sacrifice of Ukrainians offers a warning and a lesson to all free societies: their freedoms, too, are never guaranteed.

Closing Message:
Kasparov ends by declaring the supreme lesson for America and the free world: that freedom requires vigilance and willingness to pay a price, a reality that Ukrainians understand every day.
“Slava Ukraini.”