The Dissident

Summary

Autocracy in America: The Dissident Episode Summary

Host: Garry Kasparov
Guest: Masih Alinejad
Release Date: July 25, 2025
Podcast: Autocracy in America by The Atlantic

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Introduction: Understanding Dissidence

Autocracy in America delves into the pressing issue of authoritarian tactics permeating the United States, emphasizing the necessity to recognize and combat these threats. In the episode titled "The Dissident," host Garry Kasparov engages in a profound conversation with Masih Alinejad, an Iranian journalist and women's rights activist whose unwavering stand against the Islamic Republic of Iran has led to her exile in the United States.

Notable Quote:
"If you stop caring about freedom everywhere, you won't have it at home for long."
— Garry Kasparov [00:34]

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Masih Alinejad: A Beacon of Resistance

Masih Alinejad begins by defining a dissident within an autocratic context, highlighting the immense risks involved in standing against oppressive regimes. Her personal narrative embodies this definition, detailing her relentless fight for women's rights in Iran, which culminated in her exile after enduring severe retaliation from the Iranian authorities, including a recent assassination attempt on her life in Brooklyn.

Notable Quote:
"The regime, whatever I do, made them mad and very angry with me. And they hate me so much that they really want to get rid of me."
— Masih Alinejad [03:54]

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The Power of Women's Mobilization

Alinejad emphasizes the pivotal role of women in combating authoritarianism. She discusses how her campaign against compulsory veiling galvanized Iranian women to practice civil disobedience, a direct challenge to the regime's control over personal freedoms. This collective resistance not only undermines the regime's authority but also inspires broader movements for democracy and human rights.

Notable Quote:
"If women can say no to those who control their body, these women can say no to dictators. And that scares the regime."
— Masih Alinejad [05:18]

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Exile and the Struggle for Reform

The conversation shifts to the aftermath of the 2009 Iranian presidential election, which Alinejad describes as a "selection" rather than a genuine democratic process. Disillusioned by the regime's blatant disregard for democratic reforms, she recounts her decision to leave Iran. Her attempt to seek support from the Obama administration, which ultimately failed to provide the necessary backing, led to her permanent relocation to the United States.

Notable Quote:
"Hillary Clinton, I have to give her the credit. She actually went public after that. She said that big regret. Obama's administration should have supported..."
— Masih Alinejad [09:44]

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Personal Sacrifices and Emotional Toll

Alinejad opens up about the personal costs of her activism, including the separation from her family and the emotional trauma of witnessing her loved ones suffer under the regime's oppressive laws. She shares poignant anecdotes, such as the creation of cherry blossom and peach trees in her Brooklyn garden to honor her parents, symbolizing her enduring connection to her homeland despite physical exile.

Notable Quote:
"Sometimes I really feel miserable, Gary. I have to... I have family, but it's like I don't have them. Because I want freedom. Because I want democracy."
— Masih Alinejad [12:38]

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Critique of Western Feminism and Hypocrisy

Alinejad criticizes Western feminists and activists for their selective advocacy, pointing out the lack of solidarity for women in countries like Iran and Afghanistan. She argues that while movements like #MeToo have made significant strides in the West, similar efforts to support women under authoritarian regimes are conspicuously absent. This hypocrisy undermines global human rights advancements and betrays international sisterhood.

Notable Quote:
"The biggest enemy of the women in Iran and Afghanistan, unfortunately, are the Western feminists."
— Masih Alinejad [20:35]

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Formation of the World Liberty Congress

In response to global authoritarianism, Alinejad and Kasparov discuss their collaborative efforts to establish the World Liberty Congress, an organization aimed at uniting dissidents from around the world. This coalition seeks to present a formidable front against dictatorships by fostering international solidarity and coordinated action among those who have directly challenged oppressive regimes.

Notable Quote:
"Our organization is trying to actually teach the leaders of democracies that they have to be as united as dictators and work together when it comes to ending authoritarianism."
— Masih Alinejad [29:55]

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Global Interconnectedness of Democracy and Autocracy

Acentral theme of the episode is the interdependence between global democratic and authoritarian forces. Alinejad warns that democracy's survival in one region is intrinsically linked to its protection in others. She highlights the collaborative nature of authoritarian regimes like Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea, emphasizing that their unity poses a significant threat to global democracy.

Notable Quote:
"The real warmongers are the Islamic Republic officials inside the country."
— Masih Alinejad [37:40]

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Action Over Diplomacy: A Call to Solidarity

Concluding the discussion, Alinejad advocates for tangible actions over mere diplomatic gestures. She underscores the necessity for the international community to actively support dissidents and take decisive measures against authoritarian regimes, rather than relying on ineffective or superficial policies. Her heartfelt plea emphasizes that real solidarity and proactive engagement are crucial for safeguarding global freedom and security.

Notable Quote:
"Diplomacy is not going to save the lives of women in Iran, in Afghanistan... We need actions. We need real solidarity."
— Masih Alinejad [34:34]

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Final Reflections and Recent Developments

Towards the end of the episode, Alinejad reflects on recent geopolitical events, including U.S. and Israeli strikes on Iran. She expresses a nuanced perspective, recognizing the mixed reactions among Iranians—some rejoicing at the weakening of regime officials, while others mourn the loss of innocent lives. Her stance remains clear: true peace and security hinge on unequivocally opposing the Islamic Republic.

Notable Quote:
"If you ask Iranians, they have only one message to you. The real warmongers are the Islamic Republic officials inside the country."
— Masih Alinejad [38:02]

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Conclusion: The Imperative of Global Unity Against Autocracy

Autocracy in America: The Dissident serves as a compelling exposition on the resilience and sacrifices of dissidents like Masih Alinejad. It underscores the critical need for global unity and proactive measures to counteract the rising tide of authoritarianism. Through personal testimonies and strategic insights, the episode calls on listeners to recognize their roles in preserving and advancing freedoms worldwide.

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Produced by: Arlene Aurevolo and Natalie Brennan
Edited by: Dave Shaw
Original Music and Mix: Rob Smersiak
Fact-Checking: Anna Alvarado
Special Thanks: Paulina Kasparov and Meg Gringerd
Executive Producer: Claudia Bate
Managing Editor: Andre Valdes

Transcript

[Garry Kasparov]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

[Masih Alinejad]

What is a dissident in an autocracy? The line is brightly drawn. The ruling authority is unjust. The people have no legitimate voice in their destiny or that of the nation. Standing against the rulers could mean harassment, prison, torture, even death. Dissidents stand up anyway. If that is too long a definition, here is another one. A dissident is Masi Alinejad. She's my friend and the guest in today's episode. Her brave stand for women's rights against the Islamic Republic of Iran has led to her exile in the United States. But it has not ended her fight, nor has distance made her safe. She was targeted for assassination at her Brooklyn home, but the would be killers were captured and recently convicted in a New York City court. Her story teaches us to value what we have and to never take our rights or our safety for granted. From the Atlantic, this is Autocracy in America. I'm Garry Kasparov. Since the Cold War ended, and within the categorical good and evil contrasts it contained, many people lucky enough to have been born in a free country, especially America, have begun to forget how lucky they are. Of course, many Americans have started thinking about their freedoms a lot these days, but not for the reasons I would have hoped. They're seeing with their own eyes some of the early warning signs that dissidents in unfree countries know too well. I've always believed that if you stop caring about freedom everywhere, you won't have it at home for long. The moral relativism of the post Cold War era has come home to roost. So it's time to organize and time to fight. And there's no one who can inspire and teach us how to do those things better than Massi Alinejad. Hello, Masi. So good to see you.

Always good to see you, Gary. You are my brother in arm.

You're my sister in arm. So where do we start? There's so much I want to talk to you about. Okay. My late friend and ally, Boris Nemtsov, former deputy prime minister of Russia, at one point considered to be Yeltsin's successor when we worked in the opposition trying to stop Putin's dictatorship, used to say that in the absence of democratic procedures, when you live in the authoritarian regime the only way to measure the effectiveness of your work is how the regime responds to it. And judging by the response of Ukraine, Iranian dictatorship, religious dictatorship to you, assassination attempt, kidnapping attempt. I mean, it seems you are number one on their hit list, enemy number one of Iranian movers. So how come that the regime that every day, every hour demonstrates contempt for women is so afraid of you?

To be honest, it's a badge of honor. Gary, I was on the phone with you when actually the guy with AK47 came in front of my house in Brooklyn. We were on a zoom meeting with our friend Leopoldo Lopez, and it was a very tense meeting, if you remember. So I didn't open the door. So basically, you saved my life. I could have been dead. The regime, whatever I do, it made them mad and very angry with me. And they hate me so much that they really want to get rid of me. Sometimes I say to myself, that does it worse. Like, first kidnapping plot. And then the guy got arrested with AK47. I thought, it's done, that's it. And then two more men, you know, a few days after a presidential election here in the United States of America got arrested. So. But think about it.

No, I'm thinking about it. But, you know, our listeners should understand. So why so serious? Why you? Why these dictators are so scared of dissidents that have nothing but Instagram, Twitter X and just the power of word.

That's a very good question, but I think we should not downplay the power of women in Iran.

[Hanna Rosen]

Yeah.

[Masih Alinejad]

Yes, of course, there are three pillars that the Islamic Republic based on. Three pillars, death to America, Death to Israel. And the third pillar is women. So I strongly believe the reason that they really hate me and they want to kill me, it's because I know how to mobilize women. So I remember the day when I started my campaign against compulsory veiling. I was like myself, shocked how I got bombarded by women. Young women inside Iran see, sending me videos of themselves walking unveiled, which is a punishable crime. Gary. It's like if you walk unveiled, you get fined, you get lashes, you get killed. But women were practicing their civil disobedience. So it was not just about a small piece of cloth. When women can say no to those who control their body, these women can say no to dictators. And that scares the regime because right after the Islamic revolution, so the Islamic Republic actually forced the whole, you know, the half of the population to cover themselves. Why? Because compulsory veiling is the main symbol of a religious dictatorship. It's their, you Know, we women are forced to carry their ideology. If we say, no, no longer, we're gonna carry your ideology. Of course they hate us.

Okay, let's, you know, let's go a bit deeper in our own history. So let's start with you and Iran. You had been working in Iran and you were critical of the regime.

I was a parliamentary, not parliamentary, journalists. I got kicked out from Iranian parliament just because of exposing their pay slips, their salary.

Okay, fine. So when did he leave Iran?

2009. Like you know, the presidential election happened. Controversial presidential election. They stole the.

You called controversial?

It was actually. I call it selection, Gary. We don't have election in any authoritarian regimes at all. I do know that, yeah, it was a selection. But at the same time I had hope, I have to confess that I had hope that this regime can be reformed. So millions of Iranians, they had hope that we can reform the regime.

So we tried by vote, by voting.

By voting, by voting for so called reform, so called reformists. We tried that, we tried that many times. It didn't work. And that's why, I mean me and many people who believed in reform, green movement, they left Iran.

So there was the election and the.

They stole the election.

It seemed that the reformer won and then it was. They call it green revolution, but the world ignored it. President Obama, President Obama turned a blind eye on it.

Not only that, President Obama found an opportunity that wow, the regime is weak. So then he could get a deal from the ayatollahs. And guess what? Right? I never forget the time when people were chanting Obama, Obama. You either with us or with them. You know why, Gary? Because Obama in Persian means he is with us. U means he. Ba means with. Ma means us. Wow, I know.

So you left Iran because. I also remember when I left Russia and decided not to come back because you know, I was already part of this ongoing criminal investigation about political activities. What's happened with you 2009? Any specific reason? Of course, you were treated with at least suspicion by the mullahs and by their henchmen. But anything else happened in 2009 so that you sensed it's time to leave in 2009?

Gary, I didn't make decision to leave my country. I came here to do an interview with President Obama. When I came here, the green movement happened and the administration got cold feet because they told me if they give the interview to me, I was working for the reformist newspaper which belonged to one of the presidential challenger. So they thought that because we are supporting the green movement, if they give me the interview. The US will send a signal to the regime in Iran that the United States of America is supporting the Green movement. You tell me what is wrong if.

A democratic country supports it's amazing.

Pro democracy movement.

It's such an easy way to send a subtle signal without a direct offer of support to the movement. By just giving an interview and they just turn you down.

Basically Obama ruined my life because I was here. I couldn't get the interview and I didn't know what to do.

What did come next?

Nothing. I couldn't go back because the Iranian regime shut down the newspaper that I worked for. They arrested like thousands of innocent protesters. They killed more than 100 innocent people in Green movement. And I was telling President Obama if I get the interview, I'm gonna go back because they're not gonna touch me because government gonna actually put pressure on them. But I didn't get the interview. And I mean my heart was broken because I think there was nothing wrong by sending a signal to the regime, by giving interview to a pro democracy journalist and saying that yes, we proudly support the green movement. We proudly support innocent people of Iran. After I think eight years I saw six years I saw Hillary Clinton in a party and I kind of grilled her and I said I'm here because Obama's administration never accepted to give me the interview. Now I lost my country. I stuck here in America. And I said that basically I don't want you to help us or to save Iranians. I want you to at least stop saving the Islamic Republic. That was my point. And what happened? Hillary Clinton, I have to give her the credit. She actually went public after that. She said that big regret. Obama's administration should have supported there Obama recently after, you know, the 2022 uprising. Woman, life, freedom. President Obama himself said big regret, but in what cost. A lot of people got killed. After 10 years President Obama said yes, we should have supported the Green movement. It is beyond sad that leaders of free world do not understand that they have to stick with their principle. Instead of just empty condemnations or empty words of solidarity or supporting, they have to put principle into actions.

I'm a bit hesitant asking you this very tough question because you know, it's all serious, very close to my heart. When I left I just decided not to come back to Russia to face imminent arrest. So I didn't think that it would be for such a long period. And maybe again now it's indefinite. I'm not sure I ever would be able to come back. I still hope that I'm young enough just to see the change in Russia. But what about you? It's not 12 years. That's 16 years. So when did you leave? Or when you decide not to come back? When you realize that, you know, that return to Iran would be a dream and just an instant arrest or worse. So what did you feel?

Sometimes I really feel miserable, Gary. I have to. You're my brother. And I have to admit that I'm an emotional person.

I know that. So you're in a good company.

Yeah. And sometimes I think that just because having a different opinion, wanting democracy, dignity, freedom, I have to pay such huge price of not hugging my mother.

She's the family there.

Yeah. My mom lives in a small village. She doesn't even know how to use social media. So when my brothers or, you know, my family, when they go there to visit her, this is just an opportunity. I can talk to her. But guess what? Now talking to me is a crime. The Iranian regime created a law under my name. If anyone send videos to Masi Alinejad or talk to Masi Alinejad will be charged up to 10 years prison. So they interrogated my mother for the crime of sharing her love with me. And now my mom cannot talk to me. And now my brother, like my family should be careful. If they talk to me, they have to pay huge price. You see, I have family, but it's like I don't have them. Why? Because I want freedom. Because I want democracy. And that's my crumb. Sometimes I think that I won't be even able to hug my mother. I forget their faces. I want to hug them. I want to touch my mom's face, my father's face. And guess what, Gary? Because of all these trauma, because of all these, it's not easy to handle them. So I planted trees in my Brooklyn garden to honor my mother, to honor my father. So I named a cherry blossom tree after my mom's name in my Brooklyn garden. And now I'm not even able to see those cherry blossom trees because I had to move. I mean, in three years, the FBI moved me more than 21 times. Dictators first forced me to leave my mom. And now being away from my cherry blossom mother, it was a beautiful tree. My father. So because he, you know, he disagreed with my ideas, I planted a peach tree and I put it in the backyard garden. I don't want to see you, but be there, because I love you.

You just said that your father disagreed with you. So you have your family not on one side it's split.

Yeah, it's like Iran. You know, on the map we have one country, Islamic Republic of Iran, but in reality, we really have two Iran. It's like we are banned from going to stadium. Women are banned from dancing. Women are banned from singing. Gary. From singing. So women and men are banned from having mixed party. So we are banned from a lot of things by the ayatollahs. Yeah, so. But Iranians are brave enough to practice their civil disobedience to create their own Iran. So I try to give voice to the real Iran, trying to show the rest of the world that this is a barbaric regime. When you go to my social media, you see the true face of Iranian women, brave people of Iran. You see the face of mothers whose children got killed, but they bravely share their stories. I never forget the day when the head of the Revolutionary Court created a law saying that anyone send videos to Massie will be charged up to 10 years prison. So I shared this video because I wanted to let my people know about the risk. Guess what, Gary? I was bombarded by videos. This time from mothers whose children got killed by the regime, walking on the same street that their children got killed, holding the picture and saying, hi, Masi. This is the picture of my son and I am in the street where my son got killed. I rather go to prison but not be quiet, be my voice. This is the Iran that I'm proud of. So these women are like women of suffrages, like, you know, like women like Rosa Parks of my country. So that's why I use my social media to echo their voices to continue my fight against the Islamic Republic. As I told you, they kicked me out from Iran, but they couldn't kick me out. Like my mind, my heart, my soul, my thoughts are there and I'm still fighting with them.

Worldwide. Back.

[Hanna Rosen]

I'm Hanna Rosen, host of Radio Atlantic, and I'm here to tell you about a new series airing on the show. It's a special three part series from producer Ethan Brooks coming to Radio Atlantic beginning next week. Ethan. Hi.

[Ethan Brooks]

Hey. So this is a story that starts with all these images and videos that started to go viral during the pandemic. The intersection has become infamous for the hundreds of addicts that gather here.

[Masih Alinejad]

What?

[Ethan Brooks]

The videos we're showing to these audiences of millions and millions of people were these places in American cities where it felt like the social order had broken down completely.

[Hanna Rosen]

A mixture of horse tranquilizer and fentanyl.

[Masih Alinejad]

That'S turning people there into real life zombies.

[Ethan Brooks]

I'm taking a close look at just one San Francisco, which.

[Hanna Rosen]

I mean, San Francisco is the place that's supposed to be able to solve all the complicated problems.

[Ethan Brooks]

Yes, exactly. And has really, really struggled to do so with this problem in particular.

[Hanna Rosen]

Yeah.

[Ethan Brooks]

And the series follows this one guy who's been dealing with addiction and homelessness in San Francisco for years as he essentially tries to escape.

[Hanna Rosen]

The name of the series is no Easy Fix, coming to Radio Atlantic beginning next week. So keep an eye out for it.

[Masih Alinejad]

You mentioned Rosa Parks. Yeah. One of the heroes of human rights movements. All Americans who wanted to fight for equal rights for their compatriots, no matter the religious, racial or ethnic differences. But that's, I think, where, you know, we can lose our audience here. And Americans, because they always try to see that it's through the same lens. Yes, yes. It's heroic. Yes. It's difficult. And look what we did. We should explain to them that it's not the same because all levels of power, that on the other side, we have no courts, can actually save us in Russia or in Iran or in Venezuela. So facing the obstacles in our part of the world is very different than facing the obstacles in the free world, whether it's 60 years ago or now. But, you know, this kind of hypocrisy, you know, I think it's just. Yeah, yeah, I know.

It breaks.

Yes. I look at the smile on your face. Yes, of course, you know that. But I think it's very important for people to understand while, you know, we all can appreciate the activities of MeToo. Yes, there are many things that were just. You can right the wrongs, but this is not the same as women's situation in Iran or even worse in Afghanistan. So let's talk about it. Let's talk about, you know, this is very different treatment of human rights in the United States or in European democracies versus the rest of the world, where somehow we hear even from those who are fighting for, you know, publicly here for the values of equality, just racial equality, gender equality, whatever. But somehow they become very shy talking about Iran, Afghanistan or other dictatorships. And they even talk about some kind of. Oh, it's just their culture. Answer them.

You called it hypocrisy.

I'm trying to be diplomatic, so. I know, but I'm a host of the show.

I call it absolutely betrayal, not only to human rights and women's right values, but also it's a betrayal to their own sisters in Afghanistan, in Iran. Let me just tell you why I call that the biggest enemy of the women in Iran and Afghanistan, unfortunately, are the Western feminists. And I'm telling you why. I'm telling you why. When I was fighting against compulsory veiling in America, when I launched my campaign against compulsory hijab, when I came to America, I saw women's march taking place in America. I was so excited when people here were chanting my body, my choice. And I was marching with them. Oh, Gary, you have to see my video. I was like, so excited, putting a headscarf on a stick and counting my body, my choice. People were replying, everybody, her choice. And I thought, this is the America. I called my friend in Iran. And I said, this is the first time I'm demonstrating, I'm protesting. No one killing me, no one arresting me. It was shocking for me that, like, looking around, the police, police is protecting me, protecting me to chant my body, my choice. I got arrested by morality police in my country. I was in prison by police in my country. I was beaten up by morality police in my country. When I was pregnant, I got arrested and I was in prison. So when seeing the police in America protecting me, chanting, my body, my choice, I was crying out of joy. I reached out to the same Women's march people and I said to them, now it's time to support the women of Iran to fight against the Islamic Republic. The ayatollahs and, you know, Iranian women say no to force a job. They all were like, shh. I was being labeled that I cause Islamophobia. Why? Because they always say that that's your culture. You know, cultural relativism became a tool in an excuse in their hand to support the Ayatollahs to oppress women more. I'm saying that using all these narratives to actually sending a signal to Islamic Republic that whatever you do, we don't care. So what breaks my heart when Boko Haram.

Actually, let's clarify. Boko Haram, Islamist terrorist organization in Nigeria that had a very bloody record of prosecuting Christians in the country. And of course, their first target is girls.

Exactly what happened. Michelle Obama, Oprah, Hillary Clinton, a lot of Western feminists supported a campaign, bring our girls back. Beautiful. Where are they? Where are the Western feminists? Why there is no Women's March for women of Afghanistan. The situation of women in Afghanistan is exactly like the Handmaid's Tale, which is a fiction. People in the west buying popcorn, sitting on their sofa watching the Handmaid's Tale. Fiction. Your fiction is our reality. It is happening right now. The apartheid against women is happening. But when this is in the Handmaid's Tale. It's bunch of like white women, so being denied their rights, being raped, forced to bring children, all wearing same dress code. This is the situation in Iran, this is the situation in Afghanistan. So for me, when I don't see women's march in university campuses here, college campus here, I'm like, this is hypocrisy. And when it comes to have policy against terrorism, one day Obama's administration comes and go and then Biden administration comes and go. Trump administration comes and go and they undo all the policy of the other president. They don't understand that when it comes to terrorism, America should have only one policy, believe me, the Islamic Republic. They don't care whether Trump is in power or Biden is in power. They don't care about left and right wing. They hate America, they hate American values. And that is what is missing, that American government do not understand that they don't have one policy to end terrorism. That's why, Gary, I think Americans should understand when it comes to end terrorism, it's like Islamic Republic is like a cancer. If you don't end cancer, cancer will end you.

You don't negotiate with cancer. You cut it off.

Yes, you cut it off.

I agree. That's what I've been saying about Putin. You enjoy the certain protection offered by American law. And those who tried to kill you and to kidnap you, they faced American law and they have been convicted. America defended you and America forced them just to receive the price they deserved. So you were on the court, in a courtroom. He looked straight in the eyes.

I faced my would be assassins. I looked into their eyes. I'm not saying that it was not scary, Gary. I was bombarded by different feeling, different emotional. Looking into their eyes.

You were trembling.

I was like crying back door in the arm of the FBI agents who were protecting me. But immediately when I walk into the room, when I saw there was a female judge, I was like, this is what we are fighting in. I'm emotional. This is what we are fighting in Iran. Having female judge in America, having the law enforcement sitting there supporting me. I saw my friends, all human rights activists. I saw my neighbors, Gary, my neighbors from Brooklyn. And I was like, how lucky I am. This is what the Iranian people want, to have justice. This is the beauty of America. And I was like, felt the power to look into their eyes and testify against the killers.

Now having all these experiences, do you think that America is in any danger of sliding into the authoritarian direction? Do you think that Americans take this Freedom for granted. Because you have plenty of experience both as an American citizen, as one of the leaders of the global dissident movement. So is America is facing the real challenge of fundamental freedoms that Americans enjoyed over generations for 250 years, they could be somehow in jeopardy.

Of course democracy is fragile. I want Americans to understand that when you take freedom for granted, democracy for granted, when you take like, you know, everything for granted, think about it, that the authoritarian regimes are not gonna just stay there. They're coming from different geography, different ideology. They're not from communism to Islamism. But they have one thing in common. Crushing democracy, hating America and all the authoritarian regimes. Gary, you know better than me. They work together, they cooperate together. Why? Because they know how to support each other, they know how to back each other. But here in America, Republican and Democrats, when it comes to support national security of America in the face of terrorism, they're not together. So when they are not united, believe me, dictators will get united and they will end democracy.

Now it's time to talk about our joint efforts to create the global dissident organization. And now it's the World Liberty Congress. And you are the president. Elected president.

By the way, as a woman, I cannot even choose my dress code in Iran, but I will.

Exactly so. And let's talk about it, about the concept, because we talked about human rights abuses in Iran, Afghanistan, briefly mentioned Russia and other places. So you talked very passionately about the dictators working together. Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, they work together not just in the United Nations. Talk to our Ukrainian friends and they tell you they are working together helping Putin to conduct this criminal, genocidal war in Ukraine. The free world is, I wouldn't say disunited, but definitely is not united as it had to be. So we tried to bring together dissidents who saw it just with their own eyes, who suffered from these power abuses, whether it's in Africa, it's Middle east, in Latin America, it's in Asia, it's Eastern Europe, Russia, Belarus, Central Asia. Unfortunately, there are too many countries that just are now living now under some kind of authoritarian or totalitarian rule. So we created this organization and we want to have a powerful message of these combined forces of people who otherwise, you know, had very little in common, but recognizing that it's time for us to have. It's like a dissidents international. To do what?

I'm sure you're not gonna like that. But the only thing that we should learn from dictators is unity, because you said that they are united. So Our organization is trying to actually teach the leaders of democracies that they have to be as united as dictators and work together when it comes to end authoritarianism, which is, as you said, increasing every year. And we had our first general assembly in Lithuania. These are the true dissidents who survived assassination plot, leading movement within their own country, in Africa, all over the authoritarian regimes. So we need to get together and bring the wall of dictatorship down, otherwise democracy is gonna go in recession forever. So I wanna invite everyone to actually learn about World Liberty Congress and our joint efforts and understand that this is the time to support the dissidents who are warning the rest of the world that dictators are expanding their ideology everywhere in democracies as well.

Yes. So of course I have to mention Anna Pilbaum who started this concept, autocracy in America. She talked about it in a very scientific way. So obviously you are offering more emotional, actually first hand experience.

Firsthand experience. Not emotional. Gary, let me tell you something. The guy who was trying to kill me was from Russia. Russian mobster. Yeah. And the kidnapping plot as the FBI, you know, revealed. Yes, exactly. When you read the indictment, they say that they were trying to take me from Brooklyn to Venezuela. Why Venezuela?

It's a part of the same network.

Yes, exactly. So that actually shows you this network from Russia, Iran, Venezuela, China, North Korea, they're not only supporting each other, like you know, sharing technology, surveillance within their own authoritarian regime to oppress and suppress uprising, they also using this for transnational repression beyond their own borders in democratic countries. That should be an alarm for everyone.

But we can hardly expect western democracies, especially the United States now and Donald Trump's leadership to incorporate dissidents concerns, human rights issues into any negotiations. So I mean, he spoke to Vladimir Putin just a number of times and never heard them talking about human rights.

So if they don't care about human rights, I think national security is important for them. No, national security is under threat. Threats, serious threats. I am talking about real assassination plot taking place on US soil. If anyone can come to America and target me, next can be anyone who is now listening to me.

Let's summarize. In the era of globalization, democracy cannot survive somewhere without being protected elsewhere. So everything is interdependent, it's all connected. Correct. So what is our message? The World Liberty Congress brought together hundreds and hundreds of dissidents because we understand that the world now, it's one of the most critical stages of the never ending war between forces of freedom and tyranny. And this War, of course, it has front lines like in Ukraine, for instance. Instance. But it goes across the globe. And this war also has its invisible borders. Inside the United States, inside Europe, so inside democratic countries. And here, our experience, our understanding of the nature of this war is invaluable. And people should listen to us. And eliminating human rights or accepting the equality of people from every region of the planet for just that they're entitled for the same rights as Americans or Canadians or Brits or French or Germans is going to harm democratic institutions in these very countries. Your last word?

My last word.

Let's not last word today, of course, because we'll hear a lot from you.

Some people in America are allergic to.

Regime change, to the worst of regime.

Change, to the expression of regime change. I am only allergic to dictators. And that's how it should be. Don't give diplomatic titles to terrorists. Let's call them who they are. Don't give diplomatic titles to dictators. They are dictators. So that's my message. Very simple. Diplomacy is not going to save the lives of women in Iran, in Afghanistan, the lives of those people living under authoritarian regimes in Africa, in Latin America, Asia, Eastern Europe. No, we need actions. We need real solidarity. And don't abandon those who are protecting democracy, who are fighting for freedom, who are trying to guarantee global security across the globe. I love America, I love Iran. And I've been given second life by the law enforcement. Gary, this is very ironic. A girl who was forced to shout death to America. The country that I wish death for, United States of America, gave me a second life. And that's why I love America. And I want to dedicate my life to fight for America as well, to protect America from terrorists, from authoritarianism. And that's why I am full of hope and energy.

When Masih and I spoke, it was before the United States and Israel attacked Iran. So we followed up with Massi to ask her what she made of the strikes and what they might mean in the battle against the Iranian regime and the broader fight against autocracy. Here is what she had to say.

To be honest, I am in touch with many Iranians and they are happy when it comes to see the end of their killers, the commanders, the Revolutionary Guard members. So that made Iranian people happy, but at the same time, ordinary people got killed and that's the people of Iran paying a huge price. And what breaks my heart more, that now people are being left alone with a wounded regime which trying to get revenge on its own people. So yes, I kept hearing in the west, let's end the war. Anti war activists took to the street and I was like, it is not that difficult for you to say that. And when now I see that all those anti war activists, you know, they just finished their job. No more talking about another war being waged on Iranian innocent women, people facing executions right now. It is beyond sad. That's all I can say, that we only see peace and security in the region across the globe if we really say no to Islamic republic. If you ask Iranians, they have only one message to you. The real warmongers are the Islamic Republic officials inside the country. And that's why when we say no to war, we really mean no to Islamic Republic.

This episode of Autocracy in America was produced by by Arlene Aurevolo and Natalie Brennan. Our editor is Dave Shaw. Original music and mix by Rob Smersiak. Fact checking by Anna Alvarado. Special thanks to Paulina Kasparov and Meg Gringerd. Claudia Bate is the executive producer of Atlantic Audio. Andre Valdes is our managing editor. Next time on Autocracy in America.

[Hanna Rosen]

This virus of isolationism, which isn't a coherent ideology itself, it's a knee jerk reaction to the external world, can go through a long period of being irrelevant and then suddenly reappear. And I attribute this in part to a failure in both political parties ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[Masih Alinejad]

I'm Garry Kasparov. See you back here next week.

[Hanna Rosen]

I'm Hanna Rosen, host of Radio Atlantic, and I'm here to tell you about a new series airing on the show. It's a special three part series from producer Ethan Brooks coming to Radio Atlantic beginning next week. Ethan. Hi.

[Ethan Brooks]

Hey. So this is a story that starts with all these images and videos that started to go viral during the pandemic. The intersection has become infamous for the hundreds of addicts that gather here. What the videos were showing to these audiences of millions and millions of people were these places in American cities where it felt like the social order had broken down completely.

[Masih Alinejad]

Mixture of horse tranquilizer and fentanyl that's turning people there into real life zombies.

[Ethan Brooks]

I'm taking a close look at just one city, San Francisco, which, I mean.

[Hanna Rosen]

San Francisco is the place that's supposed to be able to solve all the complicated problems.

[Ethan Brooks]

Yes, exactly. And has really, really struggled to do so with this problem in particular.

[Hanna Rosen]

Yeah.

[Ethan Brooks]

And the series follows this one guy who's been dealing with addiction and homelessness in San Francisco for years as he essentially tries to escape the name of.

[Hanna Rosen]

The series is no easy fix coming to Radio Atlantic beginning next week. So keep an eye out for.