ATLA Origins Pt. 1: With Creators Mike DiMartino & Bryan Konietzko

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Braving the Elements – ATLA Origins Pt. 1: With Creators Mike DiMartino & Bryan Konietzko

Podcast: Avatar: Braving the Elements
Hosts: Janet Varney (“Korra”) & Dante Basco (“Zuko”)
Guests: Michael Dante DiMartino & Bryan Konietzko (Co-creators of ATLA & Korra)
Original Release: June 25, 2021

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Episode Overview

This special installment of Braving the Elements marks the show’s first in-depth behind-the-scenes episode, sitting down with the legendary creators of Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra, Michael Dante DiMartino (“Mike D”) and Bryan Konietzko. Hosts Janet Varney and Dante Basco lead a heartfelt and entertaining conversation on the very origins of Avatar, the creators’ friendship, and the foundational philosophies that shaped one of animation’s most influential series. This episode (the first of a two-parter) offers exclusive stories, candid reflections, and lighthearted banter, making it a treat for die-hard fans and newcomers alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing the Creators and Setting the Tone

• Hosts' Excitement: Janet frames the creators as the "two dads" of Korra and Zuko, setting a playful, family vibe.
• Cast Reflections: Both creators express how meaningful it is to reunite with voice actors and see the legacy of Avatar grow over 20 years.
  • "Cora and Aang...they are [my children]. My mom would always say Avatar was her other grandchild." — Bryan (04:34–04:44)

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2. RisD Origins: The Creators' Friendship and Collaborations

• Mutual Background: Both attended Rhode Island School of Design (RISD). Friendship and creative collaboration took root at lively RISD parties—one involving Bryan as “Iguana Man.”
  • Bryan’s Early Art: Inspiration for hybrid animals goes back to childhood drawings—later feeding the art of Avatar (Appa’s design inspired by Catbus).
    • "I just started finally doing, like, drawings for myself at night. And when we started what would turn into Avatar, it was kind of the first time in my adult life I was just really sitting there drawing... letting my imagination run free." — Bryan (12:17–12:46)

Memorable Moment:

• The running joke about whether their first meeting involved a costume party and persistent RISD pride among alumni.
  • "You guys are like the pride of RISD." — Dante (16:46)

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3. Entering Animation: First Industry Jobs & ‘Networking’

• Career Beginnings: Mike gets his break thanks to early contacts—animating on “King of the Hill” and “Family Guy,” while Bryan follows, learning on the job, and benefiting from RISD alumni connections.
  • "There are a lot of good opportunities if you were in the right place at the right time and could draw." — Mike (19:27–19:34)
• Real Networking: The conversation demystifies industry networking as more about organic friendships and supporting peers rather than forced schmoozing.
  • "It’s not who you know, it’s who knows you and what they think." — Dante (32:20–32:29)

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4. Building a Creative Partnership & Early Projects

• Mike’s Ambition: Even in college, Mike displayed natural leadership and project management in student films (notably, “Kid New Year and Billboard”).
  • “Mike at, you know, what was he, 21, 22, he was already, like, running a production…” — Bryan (21:30–21:50)
• Collaborative Dynamics: The two worked together painting animation cels well before Avatar, laying a foundation of deep mutual respect and synergy.

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5. Pitching Avatar: Collaboration with Nickelodeon

• Pitch Process:
  • Recalled advice to retain a kid’s point of view and surprise that many pitches to Nickelodeon mistakenly targeted adults (e.g., “the life of a teenage tax accountant”).
    • "He wanted you to make sure you knew it should be about a kid's pov... you'd be surprised how many stories are pitched to us from the perspective of a teenage tax accountant or, like, a brothel." — Janet (34:07–34:35)
• Network Collaboration: The creators note the iterative collaboration with Nickelodeon's execs, especially Eric Coleman, who inspired integral characters like Zuko.
  • "Zuko's character completely came out of a note from Eric [Coleman]... Wouldn't it be scarier if it was a kid who was like really driven?" — Bryan (35:24–35:53)

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6. Reflection & Legacy

• Temporal Surrealism:
  • Both hosts and creators reflect on the legacy—con-going teens saying they grew up on “Korra” or “Avatar,” time “warping” with the show’s enduring impact.
  • Naming of children after show characters underlines generational influence (09:14–09:42).
• Character Parallels: Dante posits (to the creators’ amusement) that “Brian is Zuko and Mike is Aang” — both agree there’s truth in that, sharing how their personalities are woven into main characters.
  • "I've always sort of like had a soft spot for Aang, and Brian's always identified with Zuko a little more." — Mike (37:12–37:19)

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7. Creative Philosophy: Cultural Respect & Production Innovations

• Early Cultural Integrity: The show’s research into martial arts, mythology, and Asian cultures was driven by love and respect, setting a bar for diversity and authenticity in children’s animation—even before industry-wide calls for inclusion.
  • "The whole reason we created this was admiration of Miyazaki's films and, you know, Asian culture..." — Mike (47:53–48:05)
• Production Approach: Bryan’s experience in South Korea with overseas studios led to greater creative partnership with animators—a move motivated by respect and a desire for quality.
  • "I was really paying attention and asking questions... as much as we had creative ideas, we had production ideas." — Bryan (44:46–45:20)

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8. Is Avatar “Anime”?

• Debate & Self-awareness: The team laughs at the never-ending discussion, with Bryan noting that even Japanese directors have different definitions, and Janet quips about “Avatar” as a “gateway drug to anime” for American audiences.
  • "You could go speak to 20 top directors in Japan...what is anime? And I bet you'd get 20 different answers." — Bryan (50:40–51:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On early casting:
  “When I first read the script, it said Michael Dante DiMartino. And I was like — and I was convinced one of the reasons I got cast [as Zuko] because we share the same name.” — Dante (02:58–03:09)

• On industry aging:
  "We went from young guys to old guys, and everything in the middle was a blur." — Bryan (08:08–08:29)

• Banter about network notes:
  "How did it all begin? ... If you could bend one element?" — Janet (05:57–06:04)

• Fan dedication:
  "Even when I go to a con, if someone's from RISD, they gotta come and talk to me... they are going hard." — Dante (16:49–17:35)

• On Zuko’s arc:
  "Zuko's character completely came out of a note from Eric. ... I said, can he have a scar? That's how Zuko—so that came from that." — Bryan (35:24–35:53)

• Personalities in the characters:
  “Micah's like a peaceful, mellow Avatar Airbender... and I am definitely much more fiery and impassioned and driven in a sort of self-destructive way sometimes. But we balance each other out.” — Bryan (37:57–38:14)

• On Avatar as anime:
  "Is it anime? I mean, you could go speak to 20 top directors in Japan... I think it's just short for animation." — Bryan (50:40–51:08)

• Pop culture reflection:
  "We made a show we wanted to watch and that we wanted to work on that would be interesting for us to work on..." — Bryan (42:33–42:49)

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Important Timestamps

• [02:37] – Creators welcomed, playful “two dads” banter.
• [06:41] – Referencing the definitive Art of Avatar book.
• [10:00–15:00] – RISD stories, Iguana Man, hybrid animal origins, and student films.
• [19:00–25:00] – Moving to LA, early careers, and organic networking.
• [34:07] – Network feedback about kid-focused pitches.
• [35:22] – Zuko’s origin.
• [36:39] – Mike & Bryan as Aang & Zuko.
• [44:43] – Bryan’s first time in South Korea and production philosophy.
• [47:53] – Cultural respect in Avatar’s creation.
• [50:40] – Is it anime?

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Summary Flow & Usefulness

This episode offers fans and creators-in-the-making an inspiring and reassuring look into how legendary creative partnerships are forged, how a celebrated universe is built, and how intention and respect inform enduring art. The conversation flows easily across anecdotes, practical wisdom, candid self-reflection, and the kind of “only here” Avatar lore that brings the fandom ever closer to its creators’ hearts.

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(End of Part 1. The story and deep-dive continues in the next episode.)

Transcript

[Dante Bosco]

All new drinks are now at McDonald's with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher and the Mango Pineapple Refresher with popping Boba. To crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire six? All new drinks are here now at McDonald's.

[Brian Konietzko]

Refreshers contain caffeine.

[Janet Varney]

Hello, friends, benders and non benders alike. Welcome to Braving the Elements, Nickelodeon's brand new podcast about all things Avatar verse. I'm Janet Varney and I am Dante Bosco. Well, hopefully you were with us for our very first premiering number one episode of many to come of Braving the Elements. We of course recapped and did a little bit of a deep dive into episode one of Avatar the Last Airbender from book one, the Boy in the Iceberg. Now, we are going to be heading back over to episode 102 to talk about that soon, but right now we had to hit pause on the recapping because we have very, very special guests today. In fact, this is such a special conversation that we are going to be splitting it up into two episodes. Let me put it this way. It's like our two dads are on the show. Do you know what I mean?

[Dante Bosco]

Totally.

[Janet Varney]

I mean, listen, Korra and Zuko would not exist without our two dads. I'm sure that's a characterization that everyone will be uncomfortable about forever. And. And yet I've said it. This is a very, very special episode for us. We're so glad that they came on early on so that we could get a little backstory, but also hopefully not ask them every single question they've ever been asked in the 20 almost years that it's been since the very seed of the idea for Avatar was created. So please welcome our two dads, the creators of the last air vendor, the Legend of Korra Avatar Studios. Please welcome, Michael Dante DiMartino and Brian Koneczko. Yay.

[Dante Bosco]

I'm hearing the fanfare right now. People clapping over the airwaves as they're listening to this.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Hello, children. Hello, son and daughter.

[Janet Varney]

Mike. I'm gonna call you Mike for the rest of the time.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Yes, that's fine. My friends, my children call me Mike. So.

[Dante Bosco]

Mike D. Mike D. Yeah.

[Janet Varney]

I realize that I always refer to you as just Mike DiMartino, and now I'm feeling like I need. I should have slipped back in the. The El Dante. The El Dante.

[Dante Bosco]

No, you threw that Dante. And when I first read the script, it said Michael Dante DiMartino. And I was like. And I was convinced. One of the reasons I got cast, because we share the same name. Definitely.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Well, I will say I do recall. Here's an early story for you that we'd get the, like, auditions on, you know, CD. Back in the day, people used CDs and they didn't, like, list the actor, actresses names on them. And I remember seeing Dante Bosco, and I jokingly said, like, that's our guy right there. That's gonna be him. And sure enough, it really did end up being you.

[Dante Bosco]

So there you go. It worked out. The name worked out for me. I like it.

[Janet Varney]

Cut to later today. Dante's like, I wonder if that is the only reason I got the part. Actors are very insecure. I've just discovered that's the only reason. The only one. This is awesome for us. We love any opportunity to see you, and I'm sure you know how important it is to us that we. When you see us, you're probably reminded of the most stressful times in your life. So that's very positive for us.

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah, but you. You all were one of the fun parts, you know, like, towards the end, Mike was in a lot more of the records than I was. But so when I did get to go, it was an even extra special treat, you know, And I always love hanging out with the actors and especially you two. And, you know, I don't have children, so all of the Avatar characters are like my children. I always think of them that way. So it's not that you two lovely adult human beings are my children, but, yeah, Cora and Cora and Aang, you know, they. They are. And my mom, I have a lot of nephews and a niece, but my mom would always say that that Avatar was her other grandchild, you know.

[Dante Bosco]

Oh, wow.

[Brian Konietzko]

It takes a lot of attention, like raising a child.

[Dante Bosco]

Tell grandma we said hi.

[Janet Varney]

I was gonna say we're ready to meet her at any time. It's funny you would say that, because she is actually gonna be on our next episode. I know it seems like we jumped around a little bit and started contacting your family members, but we're just real enthused about this podcast. We're real enthused about it. You know, I did that thing where. And I think Dante is more chill about this stuff because Dante is the cool kid and I'm the nerd between the two of us. And so he probably didn't do what I did, which was, like, such a gross, deep dive into stuff that I've Actually, I've come all the way back around to having hurt myself because my brain stopped being able to take in all the information that's out there on the web about Avatar. So. So everything just sort of, like, melted away. So now I'm just back to where I was, because I was like, I must know everything. The creators are coming on the podcast.

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah. Now I feel bad. Like, we scared you into it. Like, you had to cram for a test or something. It's okay to ask us a question that's been asked before. It's just when.

[Janet Varney]

So how did it all begin?

[Brian Konietzko]

If you could bend one element.

[Dante Bosco]

I know.

[Janet Varney]

How did you ever come up with the idea this has never before been told a story you'll never hear anywhere else. No, there are a lot of places that. That the story has been told, certainly on various and sundry Tumblr blogs. And, Mike, I think you have a little more on your website now. That's a kind of a more recent thing, right, that you have the sort of hub of a website where people

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

can go, I do have a website, but all the, like, blog stuff is kind of old. It's from my blog. I haven't.

[Brian Konietzko]

But we're kind of old. Yeah.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

I would say, like, when people. You know, the thing we usually refer people to is, like, the Art of Avatar book. Because, like, I feel like that's one of the definitive, like, places where we sort of told, like, where it began and the early development, and you get to see the early art and all that stuff.

[Janet Varney]

Oh, the book that I was cramming even as we were logging on.

[Dante Bosco]

Was I supposed to read that textbook? Is that textbook? I was supposed to. I have it here also.

[Brian Konietzko]

This is why you're the cool kid.

[Janet Varney]

You're the cool kid. That's right. And you're the one who drops profound references to other, like, literary gems. While I'm scrambling to remember something, like, very specific.

[Dante Bosco]

I just try to take it in. The crazy thing is it's 20 years ago, fellas. I mean, almost. Yeah, almost 20 years ago. Obviously, I was there, too. And I. It's. It so blows my mind when I'm talking to fans or cons and these kids are, I mean, barely 20, if not. And I'm, like, going, hannah, we did. We did this. We started doing this, like, before you were born. Like, how is that. Yeah, it seems like yesterday, fellas, like, going in there and auditioning with you guys have all these crazy memories of the whole journey. I remember that premiere party where. Where. Where Brian handed the Mic to you at the Premier Mart. He's like, I wanna hide, you know, the Beastie Boy reference. Like, I'm handing the mic to Mike D. Like, I have these, like, weird memories in my head, and I'm like, how was that that many years ago?

[Brian Konietzko]

Well, and we were like, we were young for show creators and showrunners back then.

[Dante Bosco]

Oh, for sure. I thought you guys were young, too. I'm like, do these guys know what they're doing?

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Not really.

[Janet Varney]

We cast you because your name was Dante. What does that tell you?

[Dante Bosco]

Good taste.

[Brian Konietzko]

I was like, 25, almost turning 26 when we came up with the idea in 2002. And, you know, it took some years through development and working on the test pilot and then getting into production, but by the time we were, like, actually running the production, I think I was 28. So, you know, so we were sort of known as, like, the young. The young guys for a while. And then we once had this, like, meeting. This was, I think, during Korra, like some live action network pulled us in and we had a meeting and they were like, you know, you guys are like veterans. You know, you're like veteran world builders. And we came out of the meeting and I was like, wait, did we become the old guys? And there was no in between. We went from young guys to old guys, and I. Everything in the middle was a blur.

[Janet Varney]

Yeah, I can't even. I mean, I. Dante and I do cons together, and I now have kids who are teenagers coming up and saying, I grew up watching Korra and that's a mind blower. And then. And then I look over and in Dante's line, and someone who's like twice their age is saying, I grew up watching Avatar and people are naming their kids after characters from the series. And I mean, it's. It's really. It's really something. And that is a different way. Like, obviously, we all have our own internal clock, or lack thereof, in terms of how we account for time going by. And if you're a parent, you know, it looks different because you're seeing it through your kids. And if you're not, maybe it's through your work or your animals or your relationship or whatever. But it's really interesting when you sort of see it reflected back to you through someone who, like, their marking time by naming their child Cora is. It's a whole different experience. And time warps. All of a sudden it's like, wait a minute, hold on. Are you from the past? The future? What's happening? This doesn't Seem possible, but somehow it happened. And you guys knew each other far longer than the inception of Avatar because, of course, you met as students at Rhode Island School of Design. Risd. Right. And, Brian, I believe you were dressed as Iguana Man. I feel that has not been addressed deeply. Deep cut deeply enough in the art book. I'd like to know a little more about why Iguana Man. And I consider that to be the first hybrid animal because you were part, you part iguana. So that's basically the first hybrid animal from Avatar.

[Dante Bosco]

Doing it. Risd.

[Brian Konietzko]

Well, the first hybrid animal that inspired me was Opus sure from Bloom county, because, you know, he was just a penguin, but he didn't really look like a penguin. You know, he had this big, big, huge, round schnoz. And I loved him. And I actually just found the stuffed animal that I had at my mom's house. I brought it back home to la. And so when I was in, like, second or third grade, I would just draw hybrid animals. It was just something I did. And that was a time when I used to just lay on the floor and just draw from my imagination. And then a few years later, I got more into. I mean, I always took art classes outside of school and stuff, but I got more into, like, music and playing guitar. And I wasn't so focused on drawing, even though I still considered myself an artist, but, you know, ended up going to art school. And I'll get into the whole story about meeting Mike, but it was like, it wasn't until I've been working on shows for other people's shows for, like, four years, but I really hadn't been doing drawings for myself. I would just do drawings for a class assignment or drawings for a job. And when Mike and I were trying to come up with a show, I started finally doing, like, drawings for myself at night. And when we started what would turn into Avatar, it was kind of the first time in my adult life I was just really sitting there drawing. Like, when I was a kid, just there was no assignment in mind. I was just letting my imagination run free. And my brain just went to that second or third grade state, and I just started drawing hybrid animals. And I didn't question them. I wasn't like, this is a so and so and, you know, coming up with some cute, like, combination. It was. It was honestly just tapping into that old thing of being a kid and Miyazaki, you know. So I think it was like the cat bus and it sort of just this floating, floating manatee, bovine of some Sort. But like, with Opus, like, I wasn't thinking, like, I just thought, oh, in this world, this is what a bison looks like. You know, it's just different than ours, you know, it wasn't that. It was. It was such a hybrid thing.

[Janet Varney]

I remember seeing one of the South Korean animators, say, saying something about feeling very worried about having to animate Appa and like, sort of not knowing, like, why does it. This is very strange. They have. He has six legs. What am I going to do with this? Like, should I make him insectoid? How is this going to work? And then cited Cat Bus as a very reassuring reference. Like, oh, thank goodness for Cat Bus. Now I can wrap my head around.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Ha.

[Brian Konietzko]

Finally, Catbus have like eight or ten legs or something like that.

[Janet Varney]

Yeah, listen, that's makes six a dream come true. It's just easy peasy. Six legs ain't no thing. So back to Iguana Man.

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah. Mike and I met, yeah. When I transferred to risd. And Mike had also been a transfer, but he was two years ahead of me. So when I got there, Mike was a senior and I was a sophomore. But our mutual friend Angus McLean, who's a big animator and director over at Pixar now, he ended up being my roommate at risd and he brought me over to a party that Mike and our friend Kurt were having RISDY parties.

[Janet Varney]

This is the meet cute. Now we have. We've sort of heard Brian coming in on his side, Iguana man style. And then Mike, here you are, situated at the same party, having transferred in.

[Dante Bosco]

Was it a costume party?

[Brian Konietzko]

No.

[Janet Varney]

I'm so, so glad you asked.

[Brian Konietzko]

There were a lot of those.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

My memories are always a little foggy of those years because I've always mixed up the Iguana man thing with the first time I met Brian. But that was not, apparently the first time. So I think I actually have very little memory of the first time I met Brian.

[Brian Konietzko]

Unfortunately, I don't remember that party. I will concede, actually, that might have been the first time we met because I did tag along with Angus to a Halloween party. Oh, so it is possible. Yeah. So the whole Iguana man thing, if you've not seen pictures from my, you know, Instagram or whatever it was, my friend Michelle had designed this really cool, sparkly, like, green Lemay costume and it had like the, I don't know, little turkey gizzard thing, whatever that is on the frill. It had like a frill and she let me borrow it and I just. I didn't Know, there was, like, a scrawny superhero alter ego inside of me, but when I got this costume, I just started running around with, like, Nerf guns and kind of creating this character around it. And then I ended up making, like, my own version of the costume. But, yeah, it was. It was Michelle's kind of her kind of character. But I like, drew comics around it and stuff. So, yeah, I don't know.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Maybe.

[Brian Konietzko]

Maybe I was wearing that. I did graduate in it.

[Janet Varney]

Did you really?

[Dante Bosco]

The Iguana man costume made multiple appearances around the campus at risd.

[Brian Konietzko]

Here's the thing. RISD and in art school in general, you know, you are encouraged to sort of dress up in something imaginative or in a costume. So, yeah, that's not. It's not that weird at RISD to graduate in an Iguana man costume.

[Janet Varney]

Now I'm actually disappointed because I'm like, oh, you could have made it faint. Like, oh, you should have made another costume. Now I'm actually kind of disappointed that it was just Iguana man gets trotted out again when he could have made, like, brand new.

[Dante Bosco]

You guys are like the pride of risd.

[Brian Konietzko]

I spent a lot of time on it.

[Dante Bosco]

I spoke at Brown University, and all the RISD kids bum rushed the show, and the Brown kids would not let them into the. Into the show. And then, I mean, I know. And they're, like, chanting outside and like, trying to disrupt kind of like the keynote thing I'm doing. And then afterwards, you know, I did a signing, and then we. I mean, I signed well. Well, till after midnight. And just the pride of RISD students being a part of, you know, the creators of Avatar. Even when I go to concert, if someone's from risd, they gotta come and talk to me. Like, you know, I went to risd. I'm like, I know. Oh, that's cool. I know the creators of Brisbane. You guys are like, you know, we're

[Brian Konietzko]

not the creators of risy. I want to be clear.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

I was not there in 18.

[Brian Konietzko]

1875 or whatever, but definitely, RISD kids

[Dante Bosco]

roll hard for you guys. I was like, wow, they're. They are going, like, hard enough that I love it.

[Janet Varney]

They're willing to disrupt and ruin your speech. The person they wanted to be.

[Dante Bosco]

No, they just wanted the Brown students to know, like, you know, you guys got Dante Bosca, but he really belongs to us.

[Brian Konietzko]

I was like, oh, yeah, I do

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

remember when I, you know, knew about RISD in high school. It was. It was because of. I was a big Talking Heads fan and David Byrne had gone to. To RISD along with a few of the other.

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah, they formed there at the. In the tap room.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

So, like, to me, like, when in my. My day, like, that was the, like, oh, my God, so cool. David Byrne went there. I get to go there. That's.

[Brian Konietzko]

I think David Byrne got kicked out.

[Janet Varney]

Even cooler.

[Dante Bosco]

That's even cooler. That's even cooler.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

I think he might have left, but there's a few.

[Brian Konietzko]

He might have.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

There's a few big names over there, like Bob Richardson, who's a big cinematographer. And then we were there at the same time. Seth MacFarlane was there.

[Dante Bosco]

Oh, wow.

[Janet Varney]

Angus. The most Scottish name outside of Scotland I've ever heard.

[Brian Konietzko]

Well, his name is angus Tyler Sebastian McLean of the Clan McLean.

[Janet Varney]

But even with all those luminaries who have come through RISD through the years, I did read in the art book that when you, Mike, first moved out to California, you got a job almost immediately, even though you only really had one contact, right?

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Yeah, it was a mix of, like, good luck and like a contact that paid off. Like. And it was also a time when, like, there wasn't a ton of animation yet, but it was starting to, like, pick up. My first job was on King of the Hill when it was just starting. So there was like, Simpsons were around, there was King of the Hill, and there were a few other shows around that time, like the primetime animation stuff that was like, picking up. So, like, they just needed people to work. There was. It wasn't like now where, like, there's so many people coming out to, like, get jobs in animation. It was definitely not the cool, coolest thing to do back then, but. So there are a lot of good opportunities if you were in the right place at the right time and could draw.

[Brian Konietzko]

But it would ebb and flow. I mean, there would be in those even now, you know, it happens. But in that era, like the late 90s, early 2000s, there would be like, when I came out two years after Mike, they called it the toon boom. And there a lot of sitcom animation shows picking up. But then there'd be a slump. You know, a lot of. You see the studios kind of empty out and a lot of people looking for work pick back up again. So it was kind of cyclical. But yeah, Mike. Mike was actually like a good student where he would, like, get internships. And I was like, always too lazy to get internships. But his internship led to that. That's how he found that connection was John Rice, right, Mike?

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Yeah, John Rice was a big director now. I Worked with. He was a director on King of the Hill at that time. And he had, he had come from. He worked at MTV Animation. So that's where I got my first job. It was kind of like an in. Well, it was, it was technically a job, kind of like an internship because it was just a. For the summer. But it was on this show called MTV's the Head and was like, yeah, it was the era of, you know, the era of Beavis and Butthead. And I think they were doing Daria at the time. But it was when MTV Animation was this still a thing? So I worked there for a summer before my senior year and, and kind of, kind of understood like, how animation works and, like, how the productions work and stuff like that.

[Brian Konietzko]

That's, that's the thing. I, I, I want to, like, I try to include it in my talks to schools and, and I'm actually talking to some RISD students tomorrow evening about pitching. And I think everybody gets really focused on, like, the idea. Like, I need a really awesome idea. And sure, that is obviously crucial to a good pitch. But part of, like, getting a show made and then actually, like, getting a show picked up and then actually making it is understanding how a show runs. And the thing. I'm just gonna go up and brag about Mike for several minutes now because, like, yeah, I was a sophomore, Mike was a senior. But we were just part of this crew that all helped each other make films and stuff. And they were older than me, so they had more interesting homework, and I had more fun helping them on their cool, like, senior films. And Mike and I just clicked. We just really hit it off. And Mike at, you know, what was he, 21, 22, he was already, like, running a production. Like, he had an incredibly ambitious 2D animated project that had cells and it had backgrounds. And he just had this whole production, like, organized and broken down. And at one point, we all of us got together in this, like, what do you call it? It was like a soundstage almost in the RISD film department. And, and Mike had set up all these tables and we just had movies playing and everybody was, A bunch of us came and we were painting cells. So Mike set up like, an animation studio and had, you know, this incredibly ambitious, very professional student film at the end of it. And a lot, most student films, people come up with something really ambitious. They bite off more than they can chew. They get about pencil tests done for about half of it. They color like, a couple shots and then they cry and turn it in and, like, and then they graduate, you know, and, like, Mike, like, put together this totally professional thing. So, like, he took that experience at the head and he paid attention and he unders. He, like, saw how the production worked, how animation gets made, what the different roles are and stuff. So when he came out here and met John Rhys, didn't John hire you initially as a storyboard artist and then, like. Yeah, within months promoted you to assistant director?

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Yeah, I think after my first board

[Dante Bosco]

or something, he did one sketch and John was like, you're in the house.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Forget it was. It wasn't very long.

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah, yeah. When you work with people that are cool like that, that don't. They're not all about, like, seniority and politics. They just go, oh, this kid gets it. Promotion, you know, I'm giving you more responsibility. So by the time I came out, Mike was 24 and he was a. He was a director on the first season of Family Guy.

[Janet Varney]

Yeah, that's huge.

[Brian Konietzko]

But he had a shaved head and a full beard, so all the other directors thought he was like 30 something. And there are a bunch of directors on that show, but Seth and Fox loved Mike's episodes and they were like, why can't you all be more like this guy? And then they found out that Mike was 24 and one of the directors, like, flipped out and, like, threw a chair. All right.

[Dante Bosco]

But there's always that dude in productions, starting from very young, doing for no money and everything to now. It's like, you need that guy that for some reason, everyone will work for that guy or girl. There's that person that attracts people and people just want it, like, draw, you know, do stuff for them for free. For some reason, there you. If you can't have a production without that guy that everyone's like, down to do stuff for, they don't even know why. Like, well, Mike asked me to do

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

it, so I think, yeah. I don't even know why people help me, but I appreciate that they did back then.

[Brian Konietzko]

I was like, I just so organized. Yeah, you got organized.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

I mean, that was too. It's like, you don't want to take advantage of people's time and effort. So it was like, okay, I know everyone's gonna come, so, like, I wanna make sure, like, they feel like they got something to do and they know what's going on. And, you know, and it worked out and got cells painted.

[Dante Bosco]

And what was that. What was that project?

[Janet Varney]

Oh, you guys are talking about Mike's short film project at risd, right? Is that the one with TV in his Belly.

[Brian Konietzko]

Yep.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Yes, man. See Janet. Janet has done her homework. Yes, it was called. It was called Kid New Year and Billboard. It was this. I don't even know what you would call it, but it was like this kid. It was kind of like Sci Fi ish. I guess this kid hanging out with this. I guess he was kind of an Android. He had a TV in his stomach. And they drove around in an ice cream cart in the sewers of the city and they had these girls on roller skates chasing them who are called the Alligator Girls.

[Brian Konietzko]

And one of the voice actresses who was one of those characters, got her character tattooed on. So a friend of ours still has a tattoo from Mike's film. But yeah, I mean, another friend of ours was super talented. You know, it was art school, he just sort of flaked out. And Mike had all these backgrounds that needed to get done and I was like, well, I can help you. So even though we did have those a night or two where it was a whole crew of us, I would just go hang out in Mike's apartment and we would just sit there and just work together kind of, you know, side by side. He was working on, I think he was animating and I was painting backgrounds. And like something clicked. We just, we got along well, we worked together well. I looked up to him. I had a lot to learn from him. I think he liked my art making. And when he and our friend Kurt graduated again, they were two years ahead of me. It was just this. I mean, I remember Kurt actually saying it out loud, but it was just. I was going to say it was an unspoken thing, but it was actually spoken. He's just like, we're going to go out to la.

[Janet Varney]

What are those unspoken spoken things?

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah, he's like, we're going to go out to la. I guess like the agreement was unspoken, but, you know, he just sort of declared. He's like, we're going to go out to la. We'll get established, you come out and then we're all gonna make films together. We're like, cool.

[Dante Bosco]

Sounds like a plan. That sounds like a great plan.

[Brian Konietzko]

I finished up at risd, but you know, Mike had that one contact. We had a friend who was from the LA area. They all went and lived at that person's parents house until they all got jobs and could get apartments. Two years later I came, I lived on a futon mattress in Mike's dining room for a couple weeks and I got a job like the second day because he brought me to work like his son. It Was like, bring your son to work day. And I came and got what y' all drawing.

[Dante Bosco]

What y' all drawing over there?

[Brian Konietzko]

Actually, you joke, but that's sort of what happened. I just started. Mike's like, here's some characters we need drawn. So I just started drawing them in the Family Guy style, which I had. You know, it was the first time I was drawing it. The art director came in and he was like, who are you? Where did you come from? Do you want to take a test? Usually you get like a week to take a test, but I turned it in the next morning and got hired. And so I've just started working. But again now we were in a professional setting, but my cube was right outside of Mike's door, so we were still kind of next to each other. Like in college. Sometimes I was working with him, sometimes with other directors.

[Janet Varney]

But I guess it's too much to hope that there would be at some point a moment where you would yell from your office to the cubicle, good, let's go get in here. I guess that's not really the relationship you two had really at all.

[Brian Konietzko]

Mike doesn't really talk that loud.

[Dante Bosco]

Yeah, no, Mike's a soft spoken guy,

[Brian Konietzko]

but it was cool. And then, you know, he helped me get. He definitely helped me get my foot in the door. And then I got an apartment and then other RISD friends from my year started coming and staying on my couch. And then I would help them get jobs and then they would get their own apartment. And then the next generation, you know, the next class graduated and they would stay on their couches. And so we had a good number of years where there was a whole system going on.

[Dante Bosco]

Seth MacFarlane was at RISD also.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

He was a year ahead of me.

[Dante Bosco]

Wow.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

And then he had. Yeah, he had. I mean, he blew up crazy, like not long after moving out here.

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah. I think the point, the point is you don't have to go to risd. You just have to. It's good to. And you know, the word networking can be so gross, but it's more of like supporting, just supporting your friends. And you can be at, you know, a school in la, in Pasadena that I'm associated with, is not in a professional capacity, but I've taken classes there, I've given lectures. There is Concept Design Academy and that's an awesome school being taught by professionals in the industry out here. But it's like, just find like minded people whether or not you're in a school setting and just learn from each other, support each other. Push each other. And back to my original point of Mike as, like, this, you know, paid intern. It's like, pay attention to how stuff is done. If you're just blundering in and you. Even if you have the awesome pitch, but everybody's like, this person doesn't even know how animation gets made. You know, why would they risk millions of dollars of a corporation's money on you just for some idea when you don't know how to make it? You don't know how to build a crew, you don't know how to run a production. And not like, we knew. It's not that we knew everything, which, you know, you learn a lot on the job, but you pay attention and.

[Janet Varney]

Yeah, absolutely. And just to go back to what you were saying about networking, I have the same. Those same conversations with myself in my head because that. It feels like it flies in the face of everything that I believe in or just think, you know, things that I sort of didn't want to participate in in coming down to la, you know, very reluctant and being like, if I have to hear someone say, it's who you know, or, you know, it's networking, I'm going to barf. But then, like, you realize that all the stories you're telling, maybe not all of them, but some of them, you realize you're just describing networking to someone else's ears. Like, on the outside of it, it sounds like they would use the word networking, but when it's you and it's. You're on the inside of it, and it just means these are people that I've loved working with that, you know, we. There was a mutual respect and there was a shared vision. And of course you, you know, feel compelled to work with that person. Again, not to say that there's no room to bring in new people or new spirit to that, but you're like, oh, I guess that is like the corporate term for those things. Is networking. Interesting?

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

I hate it when it's. I mean, I can't do anything like that. When it's like forced. Where it's like forced networking.

[Brian Konietzko]

It's like, it's better go to this party organic.

[Janet Varney]

Who's gonna be there?

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Yeah. And then it feels, like, really weird and awkward. And that is weird.

[Dante Bosco]

But of course, I grew up. I grew up here and in this whole town. So I'm always like, people tell me about that. I'm like, no, it's not who you know, it's who knows you and what they think.

[Janet Varney]

Oh, the twist.

[Dante Bosco]

They're like, oh, I'm like, yeah, it's not who you know who knows you, but there's also.

[Brian Konietzko]

It's like, who you get to know. I think that's the part of networking. People think it's just some sort of VIP pass or, oh, I went to this call. I know there's. There are heated debates online, and it seems like there are these mafias from these various art schools. And, you know, there's. There's truth to that. And there's also what we're describing, which is just. It's not networking in the sense of, oh, if you just know this person, they're the gatekeeper. And then glory and riches and fame are behind the. It's. It's. It's. I would say it's who you get to know, meaning who you get to know you work. And that person goes, oh, wow. And that was how we. We met Eric Coleman. You know, I worked with him on Invader Zim, and he. We got to know each other. It's not that. It was just like, hey, RISD guy, let's give him a show. You know, it definitely didn't. It didn't happen that way. He saw how I worked under pressure on a very creative and very ambitious, difficult production and was like, that's the kind of person I want to work with after having worked with me for over a year, you know, maybe two years. So when I hear networking, I think of those, like, company soirees and everyone's standing around with a drink looking nervous.

[Janet Varney]

Exactly.

[Brian Konietzko]

Who can I. Who can I talk to? Yeah, but it's. It's not that. It's like, oh, I can rely on that person. Oh, that person works really well with others. Oh, that person is very professional and creative and problem solving.

[Janet Varney]

You've told the story about pitching to Eric a few times. One thing that I found so funny was this idea that he wanted you to make sure you knew it should be about a kid's pov. And I think it's. I think maybe Brian, that was you. But you said something that he was like, you'd be surprised how many stories are pitched to us from the perspective of a teenager, tax accountant, or like a brothel. And I was like, it's Nickelodeon. I don't. That's mind blowing.

[Brian Konietzko]

That really happens. That happens all the time. Yeah. Know your audiences probably.

[Janet Varney]

And that's another thing that you. You've kind of talked about is as much as maybe someone would love to think that the two of you, you know, were in a magical cave, just like coming up with these wonderful ideas, and then you emerged from it with this complete idea of the last Airbender and then took it to Nickelodeon, and they were like, it doesn't matter if we want this or not. We must make it like this is history in the making. That it was even a collaborative process with the network that they. You know, that Eric was able to sort of talk with you about how to kind of tailor something to what they were looking for in a. But in a way that also allowed you to have your own voice and kind of focus in on what was exciting to you about that stuff. Right.

[Brian Konietzko]

I always call Eric the. The godfather of Zuko. Zuko's character completely came out of a. Of a note from Eric. We had our big fire lord, you know, the big bad boss at the end of the story. And Eric was like, yeah, that's cool, but you need some boots on the ground. You need someone who's going after them the whole time. And. And we were like, yeah, yeah. And we were thinking of an adult. And he was like, wouldn't it be scarier if it was a kid who was, like, really driven?

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

And.

[Brian Konietzko]

And I said, can you have a scar? That's how. That's how Zuko. So, like, that came from that and that. But that's part of why Eric recruited me and I introduced him to Mike.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

It's like.

[Brian Konietzko]

It's like he had seen that I was someone that you can collaborate with. And it's not just this one cited, you know, the artists over here and the suits over there. And it's a war. It's like, you gotta. The company's the ones risking millions of dollars on these things. And so you've gotta figure out. I always say, it's a Venn diagram. You figure out what they need and what you need as an artist and a storyteller and just try to figure out what fits in the middle.

[Janet Varney]

You know, Dante and I were talking about all the different characters in the show and how much we love them and sort of wondering how you felt you were reflected in those characters. And Dante just totally blew my mind. He was like, you know, Brian is Zuko and Mike is Aang. How much truth is there to that?

[Brian Konietzko]

True.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

It's some truth to that.

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Yeah.

[Dante Bosco]

I forgot when that revealed to me or you guys revealed it or something happened, and I was like, oh, my God. It was like a epiphany.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

I think it's one of those things that just. I mean, it kind of naturally happened because we're both fueling this world and these characters and, you know, and like anything you create, like, especially now, I notice like there's in every character I can see aspects of myself. But you kind of end up identifying with like one of the main characters. I've always sort of like had a soft spot for Aang and Brian's always identified with Zuko a little more. And it just sort of seemed to work out that way that your personalities sort of, you know, get infused in the work in different ways. And all the characters like Sokka and Katara, there's like, you know, little parts of us and all those personalities and characters and storylines.

[Brian Konietzko]

You know, Micah's like a peaceful, mellow Avatar Airbender. Yeah. Round, perfectly round head, you know. And I am definitely much more fiery and impassioned and driven in a sort of self destructive way sometimes. But we balance each other out.

[Dante Bosco]

But have an amazing redemptive arc, dude,

[Janet Varney]

I'm telling you, I can't. And listen, by the way, everyone must know I don't mean anything. I love teasing Dante and Dante loves teasing me. There is no part of me that's like, I can't believe everyone loves Zuko the most on the Last Airbender because I love Zuko so much. We love the villain who's been hurt and who is given the opportunity to come back from that.

[Dante Bosco]

Yeah, well, things that people always ask me and of course I don't have the answers because I am the actor who played it. And they're always like, did you know? First of all, they bring me to the side everywhere. People cons? No cons. Just people that find out I'm Zuko or they like want to have this discussion with me and they're like, literally, this is the best redemptive arc in the history of Hollywood. I'm like, what are you guys talking about?

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

A wow.

[Dante Bosco]

And they were like, did you know this arc from the beginning? And my whole thing is like always like, no. For me as an actor, I'm like, no idea. I don't know what they were doing. I thought I was coming on to be some bad guy with a scar. And I was like this like, whatever, I'm the bad guy. It was a lot like, you know, like they say when they did, when they did Casablanca, like no one knew what the ending was. The actors, Bogey and Lauren Bacall just did the movie. And then by the end, that's what the end was. And I feel for an actor, for me, in this particular project, I was like, I had no clue what we were doing. Week to week.

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah, it's. It. It's in the series bible. I mean, we knew that Zuko was going to become Ang's teacher. Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

I mean, the funny part is, like, even after. In the early days of the Internet when there was like, this was pre social media kids out there, so let me tell you, there was message boards about, you know, TV shows and I was. Didn't know much about them, but I remember after our first episodes came out, you know, there were people online talking about the shows and everyone was. Would say, like, oh, so obvious. Zuko's gonna become good. He's gonna turn and become good in the end. So, like, they were already, like, picking up on that redemptive arc, like, pretty. And I can't say we weren't, like, trying to hide it, but yeah, I

[Dante Bosco]

was just a dumb actor going, I don't. Playing it like that. I don't know. I'm like, I want to kill this dude. How about that?

[Janet Varney]

I know. Well, I was gonna say too. That feeds back into the whole idea that, like, how could you have known that there would even be people of a mature age that would be into discussing where the show was going on a message board? I mean, that's perhaps not what you were expecting when you were creating the show for Nickelodeon and they were sort of hammering in like the age group.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Yeah, no, I mean, back then, that was not a common. I mean, it existed. I knew. I remember there was like the Twin Peaks message board.

[Janet Varney]

Yeah, that's what message boards were for. Twin Peaks, dude.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Yeah, like. Like, but it was not like going on Facebook or Instagram or something or

[Dante Bosco]

maybe the last big. The last big franchise IP show that has been created without any social media.

[Brian Konietzko]

Well, but there. I mean, they're maybe not social media.

[Dante Bosco]

Yeah, because right after us, social media happened. Because I remember when we came out, none of us had Facebook, none of us had Twitter.

[Brian Konietzko]

Friendster existed. Because when I. When I was living in Seoul, when we were working on the test pilot, I remember I had a Friendster profile

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

and there was like. That was the days of. I'm forgetting the music. One was the music.

[Janet Varney]

MySpace.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

MySpace. Yeah, that was. That was like.

[Janet Varney]

I really had that at the ready. I still own stock in MySpace. Oh, MySpace. Yep. Still going strong. Feel free to check it out. MySpace pages.

[Brian Konietzko]

Avatar is spirit.net was our big fan site and that formed, I think, right after the pilot premiere, right on in 2005. And there was another one, I think, Avatar Horizons or something. So these two fan sites formed right in the wake of the first episode airing. So, I mean, people identified with the show right away, and it found an audience. And to your point, Janet, not just a. Not just like a target demo, you know, audience that never surprises, I think, because Mike and I, we've always said, like, our test audience is Mike and I. That's it. Just make sure we like it, you know, and there's so many kids shows made for kids that I can't sit through. It's like, screeching nonstop, and I'm like, why would anyone want to work on that? You know, like, we made a show we wanted to watch and that we wanted to work on that would be interesting for us to work on. You don't always work on shows that you want to watch or that you want to work on.

[Janet Varney]

So you brought up being in Seoul and had you been there before for Zim? Is that how you ended up. Because that feels like a big leap to go and actually be there for the pilot, which was only like, is it 11? It's like 11ish minutes or something.

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah, so. And again, you know, this point I'm trying to hammer about Mike. Mike was gonna be good no matter what, but, like, just one of his many attributes is, like, he's very good as a director, and I would say also as, like, a producer, because Mike looks at the big picture. If he's directing. Directing an episode, he's thinking about the entire episode. If he's doing a scene in Act 3, he's thinking about how that might reference a scene in Act 1. And I being, like, Zuko the obsessive, you know, I might zoom in and be like, I'm gonna squeeze as much life out of this moment, out of this scene, out of this one turn of character or something. And not that we, each of us don't have the ability to do the opposite, but that's where I think our, like, tendencies lie. And that's why we balance each other out so well. We have a lot of things that just totally overlap. We have a lot of similar traits, but Mike's always really good at the macro, so. But it's not like I was. I also kind of came into the industry and I was a character designer, but I was like, what's my friend doing as a director? What are his tasks? What jobs does he have? What is the prop designer doing? What is this timer? I've never seen that before. What is a timer doing? How do they figure out the lip movement? You know, you're just paying attention. So, yeah, when I when I was 24, I got sent over to South Korea to work with the animation studio that was doing zim.

[Janet Varney]

Had you been there before?

[Brian Konietzko]

No, it was my first time.

[Janet Varney]

That's so cool. How exciting.

[Brian Konietzko]

It was awesome. It was super exciting. It's my first time to Asia, where I had always wanted to go, and I loved it and I made friends and I just fell in love with Korea. So when I was there, I wasn't, you know, just like, oh, I'm here just to do my job on Zim and help train these artists to draw the characters on model or whatever. I was like, how does this system work? You know, I was being provided this incredible rare opportunity for an American animation person to see this other totally integral, really important part of the process. And I just didn't feel like those artists and those crews were being used to their full potential by the American animation industry. So I was really paying attention and asking questions and getting to know people and came back and talked to Mike about it. And so as much as we. I always say this, but as much as we had creative ideas, story ideas, character ideas, we had production ideas. Honestly, I think it was like 50, 50. We're like, what if we. A lot of the stuff that we would talk about was like, what if we ran a show like this? What if we changed this? What if we gave the overseas animation studio and animators more creative? Like, we empowered them to be more creatively involved, and we actually let them be animators instead of telling them what to animate on those timing sheets and stuff. So, yeah, that's what I mean about paying attention is like, seeing how things work and seeing if there's a way to change the process for a better, more efficient or better quality work.

[Dante Bosco]

You know, that's amazing. And it leads me into, you know what? People ask me a lot. I mean, you guys being in Asia, working with Asian artists and talking about all the Asian influence in the show and other different influences in the show, and me being an Asian actor in Mako hiring me and Mako being a part of the show. And this is before all this whole, you know, what's been going on in Hollywood in the last, you know, I'd say, five, six years about cultural influence and authenticity. And even though you guys are Caucasian guys, I was like, these guys actually did it with. What we really want is to approach things with respect and cultural significance and not just brush things off. And I was like, these guys are doing this 20 years ago, approaching it. I've had conversations with them. We talked about the way they approached the. The martial arts with Sifu Kiso and all these guys. I'm like, no one's perfect. But this is the direction that we were going in 20 years ago. And now it feels like the rest of Hollywood is catching up with kind of having integrity when approaching ethnic diversity and be getting people from different ethnicities involved in the stories we're telling. And it sounds like you kind of innately went there even before you got on Avatar, you know, and that's one thing I love about how you guys approached the project the whole time.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

Yeah, I mean, I think it was just. I mean, certainly at the time we were conscious of it, but it was also partly. I think we just naturally want to respect people and respect cultures. You know, the whole reason we. You know, part of the reason we created this was admiration of Miyazaki's films and, you know, Asian culture and stuff. So it definitely came out of a love of it and an appreciation of it. So, you know, it was just natural to try to honor it as best we could. And, yeah, like you said, I'm sure we made some missteps along the way, and now we're obviously even more aware and more conscious and to do it right.

[Brian Konietzko]

Yeah, I think the main thing was we tried not to. And again, of course, we surely have had missteps, but we try. You try not to do othering. You know, when I did get to leave, even when I got to go to the UK those first time I left the country as a young person right after school, it's like I just. When I would travel the world, I never thought, yeah, I'm the American, you know, and then, oh, there's all these other cultures. I just figure I'm no different than anybody else. Everybody has a totally different experience. I could have been born anywhere in the world. I'm not, you know, and I take. I just. But I find culture interesting. I find that fact that everyone isn't born in the same place and has a different experience to be completely interesting. And that's why even the Avatar world isn't monolithic. It is very multicultural, you know, and there isn't one. We are two white American dudes, but there isn't one person who could represent the entire Avatar world. You know, it is. It is just. And it's very much about these different cultures coexisting and. And the. The beauty and the. And the. The pain that comes out of that. And it's. That's why it's. It's. It's not About. It's just about a world that's trying to find balance and it's trying to coexist. And so we approached it that way. I think, like Mike said, that's kind of our default attitudes anyway, you know. But, yeah, just. I mean, utmost respect. Not only the cultural stuff, but like Mike said, I mean, even just anime, you know, we wanted to do a love letter to anime and not just copy it, you know? And in some ways, I know it would have looked better if I had just copied stuff, but I was trying to do our little. Little crummy version of it, you know, like, put some of our thing into it.

[Dante Bosco]

That's a big discussion, too. Is it anime or is it not anime? Is it anime? I'm like, yeah, this is American. So at the very least, it's American anime.

[Brian Konietzko]

But I don't know what it is, kind of me. I mean, you. You could go speak to 20 top directors in Japan, and I think you'd get. And ask them, what is anime? And I bet you'd get 20 different answers. That's also not a monolithic thing. Also, I think it's just short for animation.

[Dante Bosco]

I know, right?

[Brian Konietzko]

It became a thing. But, you know, but we.

[Janet Varney]

We just.

[Brian Konietzko]

We love that stuff, too. And I felt when I saw Foodie Cootie, I almost cried. I mean, it just. It destroyed me because I was like, oh, okay, we're in the dark ages over here in this America. I didn't think the American TV industry was like, some, like, hey, you better do a. We're, you know, we're the. We're the hotshot cowboys. Like, I'm looking at foodie cootie in 2000 or 2001 going, okay, we're 20, 30 years behind here. Like, what are we doing? You know? And how can I. How could we even get a little bit of this magic into an American. A show produced, you know, by an American studio?

[Dante Bosco]

In a lot of ways, it became like a gateway drug for, like, a whole generation of American audiences to anime. Now anime is so big on Netflix and on all these other streaming platforms. Crunchyroll, and a lot of people found it or got a taste for it through. I mean, we're gateway drugged to anime, you know, anime.

[Michael Dante DiMartino]

I never thought of that, but I guess maybe. Maybe some people probably were like, hey, I like this. What else is there that's similar and that's cool. That's how they got into it.

[Janet Varney]

All right, friends, that will do it for the first half of our conversation with our wonderful creators, Mike and Brian. We have a fantastic second half available to you in just a couple of days and it is not to be missed. Remember, you can find our podcast on Apple podcasts or the iHeartRadio app or Spotify or just wherever you get your podcasts. Make sure to subscribe. We'll talk to you next time on Braving the Elements.

[Brian Konietzko]

Paw Patrol is coming to theaters and it's bigger than ever.

[Janet Varney]

Welcome to Dino Island Run to get tickets. I'm a boat, em.

[Brian Konietzko]

This is as fast as I can go. Paw Patrol, the Dino movie Only in theaters August 14th. Rated PG.