Artemis Chat

Summary

Awesome Astronomy – “Artemis Chat” (April 17, 2026)

Overview

In this special “mini review” episode, Awesome Astronomy hosts Paul and Dr. Jeni (with contributions from Ralph) discuss NASA’s Artemis 2 mission—the first crewed flight to the Moon in the Artemis program. The team recounts media coverage, the mission's technical performance, the astronauts’ experiences, and what the future holds for lunar exploration. Their discussion is candid, playful, and insightful, balancing technical analysis with humor and the human impact of spaceflight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Media Coverage of Artemis 2

Starts at [00:09]

• Media Mania: Jeni shares her recent experience appearing on multiple news platforms, including BBC and Five Live as an expert commentator during the Artemis 2 mission.

• BBC vs. NASA Coverage:

  • The team praises the BBC’s balance of expert voices (e.g., Mae Jemison, Tim Peake, Helen Sharman) and “right level” reporting ([06:28]).
  • Critiques NASA’s TV coverage for being too childlike and repetitive:
    • “It’s like listening to an episode of Blue Peter... A little teddy bear to pop up and go, ‘What do you think, Mr. Fibbles?’” – Paul [02:24]
  • Acknowledges NASA’s live blogs and regular photo updates as excellent.

• Humorous Highlight:

  • Anecdote about an Australian boy at the launch:
    • Reporter: “Why are you here today?”
    • Boy: “’Cause we’re going to the moon.” (about 10 years old) [03:04]

2. First Impressions and Admission of Past Doubts

Starts at [07:21]

• Hosts admit they were previously skeptical whether Artemis 2 would launch as planned:
  • “We were wrong… And I'm happy to be wrong. As a good scientist, I'm happy to be proved wrong.” – Paul [07:38]
• Emphasizes Artemis 2 as a test flight, with science as a secondary goal.

3. Mission Performance and Technical Review

Starts at [08:16]

• Primary Mission: System Testing
  • Crew comfort (temperature, humidity, G-forces)
  • Functionality of exercise equipment, seats, hammocks
  • Personal support systems (e.g., the infamous toilet)
• Environmental Issues:
  • Crew endured overly cold cabin temperatures on first morning due to overzealous air circulation [08:59].
• European Service Module’s Flawless Execution
  • ESA service module praised for “astonishingly” precise engine burns—some course corrections canceled because of accuracy:
    • “So accurate, so precise… the same organization that did Ariane 5 and JWST…” – Paul [11:00]
• Spacecraft Heritage
  • Much hardware evolved from proven vehicles:
    • Orion service module from ESA’s ATV; SLS reuses Shuttle engines; new Orion crew module most significant novel component [12:53].
• Spacesuit Upgrades
  • Praise for low-profile Orion crew survival suits:
    • “When you don’t go out of your way to make something look cool, it looks cool… These suits looked really cool because they just look absolutely amazing.” – Paul [13:15, 13:53]
  • Survival in suits up to 6 days if needed [14:04].

4. Mission Stats, Notable Achievements & Human Firsts

Starts at [15:03]

• Distance & Duration
  • 700,000 miles traveled, 4,000 miles beyond the Moon, maximum 252,756 miles from Earth [15:16-15:51]
  • Consumed 58 tortillas—a running mission joke [16:02]
• Human Milestones
  • First person of color, first woman, and first non-American (in the sense of “from the Americas”—Canadian) to travel beyond Earth orbit [17:07].

5. Astronaut Highlights & Representation

Starts at [17:51]

• Jeremy Hansen (CSA)
  • Applauded for integrating First Nations heritage in his personal mission patch (“Teachings of the Seven Grandfathers,” Anishinaabe artist, Grandmother Moon motif) [18:26-20:24].
  • “He ensured as he took as that first… Canadian, first non-American to go away from Earth and go somewhere. He took that story with him and he took that. That was beautiful.” – Paul & Jeni [20:16-20:24]

6. Value of the Human Experience

Starts at [20:41]

• Science: Supplementary, Not Central

  • Acknowledgement that scientific returns were modest vs robotic missions.
  • Memorable moment: Victor Glover describes a lunar crater chain, humorously met with a “Blue Peter” science response [21:32].
  • Key Perspective (quote Chris Lintot):
    • “What’s important is the human experience... pictures, reports, feedback… That’s something you can’t get from a robotic probe.” [23:15]
    • “It allows us to connect so much more. Like, people around the world fell in love with this mission in a way that they don’t fall in love with an orbiter around Saturn.” – Jeni [24:25]

• Human Touch

  • Named new craters after the crew’s loved ones—personal connection celebrated [23:51]
  • Unfiltered astronaut moments: 24/7 coverage led to some “camper van” monotony, but also candid moments—e.g., post-exercise group hugs, floating jars of Nutella, NASA quickly cutting the feed when Victor Glover started washing [27:34].

7. 24/7 Coverage: Blessing and Burden

Starts at [24:25]

• Pros and Cons
  • BBC praised for pacing coverage (live during key events, summaries otherwise)
  • NASA’s 24/7 feed at times “just watching four people in a caravan” [25:32]
• Intense Media Workload
  • Jeni: “I’m quite glad that there’s a bit of a break now between Artemis 2 and 3, so I can get more than five hours sleep a night.” [36:47]

8. Post-Flight Engineering Analysis

Starts at [30:00]

• Medical tests, debriefs, and intense engineering review now underway to determine if Artemis 2 was “really successful” beyond its stellar public-facing performance [30:00]
• Noted issue: minor helium leak in European Service Module, known & slated for upgrades in Artemis 3 [30:44]

9. The Road Ahead: Artemis 3 and the Lunar Lander Race

Starts at [31:24]

• Artemis 3 planned for mid-2027; vehicle assembly already underway.
• Major Bottleneck: Lunar Lander
  • “Musky and Bezos, an old egghead himself, head to head. They are literally in competition with each other in competition to screw this up as much as they possibly can.” – Paul [31:53]
  • SpaceX (Starship) vs Blue Origin (Blue Moon) competing for lander contract.
  • Hosts believe Blue Origin is “ahead in the game” due to their progress with cargo lander variant [32:15-32:25].
• Starship Plan Ridicule
  • Comedy breakdown of the convoluted Starship lunar plan:
    • Dozens of refueling launches, loitering in orbit, complex dockings [34:16-35:08]
    • “It’s like my favorite oh Lord plan in the sense of—it’s my favorite because it’s absolutely batty.” – Jeni [34:05]
    • “One giant phallic rocket.” – Paul [35:27]
  • By contrast, Blue Origin’s plan viewed as simpler and more feasible [35:56]

10. Wrapping Up: The Joy and Significance of Artemis 2

Starts at [36:08]

• A Mission Worth Celebrating

  • Mission is a symbol of unity and optimism:
    • “It was a wonderfully uplifting thing in a sea of doom… It was nice to see.” – Paul [28:48]
  • Few issues: minor “blips” expected for a new vehicle [29:19]
  • “You fly any new airliner, fighter jet... if you had that few [issues], you take that 100%.” – Paul [29:25]

• Looking Ahead

  • Medical, personal, and engineering debrief ongoing.
  • Excitement for Astro Camp upcoming as the hosts promise more content and discussions from “wonderful, dark, uber dark skies” [37:18].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Media Critique:
  • “It’s like listening to an episode of Blue Peter… Please can we talk to us like adults.” – Paul [02:24]
• Self-Awareness:
  • “We were wrong. And I’m happy to be wrong. As a good scientist, I’m happy to be proved wrong.” – Paul [07:38]
• ESA Praise:
  • “So accurate, so precise... the same organization that did Ariane 5 and JWST…” – Paul [11:00]
• Spacesuit Wisdom:
  • “When you don’t go out of your way to make something look cool, it looks cool.” – Paul [13:15]
• Mission Stats:
  • “700,000 miles flown… 58 tortillas.” – Jeni [15:16, 16:02]
• Human Experience:
  • “The value was the human experience… Humanity sees. Not just a robot that’s set up to take the perfect picture.” – Paul [23:19]
• Starship Plan Humor:
  • “It’s like my favorite oh Lord plan in the sense of—it’s my favorite because it’s absolutely batty.” – Jeni [34:05]
  • “One giant phallic rocket.” – Paul [35:27]
• Mission Sentiment:
  • “It was a wonderfully uplifting thing in a sea of doom… pleasant. It was nice to see.” – Paul [28:48]
• Exhaustion Pays Off:
  • “It was really good fun… I’m quite glad that there’s a bit of a break now between Artemis 2 and 3, so I can get more than five hours sleep a night.” – Jeni [36:40, 36:47]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:09] Media coverage, BBC vs. NASA
• [07:21] Acknowledgement of doubts/skepticism pre-launch
• [08:16] Mission as a test flight: Environment, systems, issues
• [09:51] ESA service module performance
• [12:28] Spacecraft heritage (Orion, SLS)
• [13:15] Spacesuit discussion
• [15:03] Mission numbers and statistics
• [17:51] Astronaut highlights (Jeremy Hansen & First Nations patch)
• [20:41] Value of human experience vs science
• [23:51] Naming craters, human moments
• [24:25] 24/7 coverage: pros, cons, and astronaut candor
• [30:00] Post-flight technical reviews/debrief
• [31:24] Artemis 3 preview, lander race
• [34:05] Starship/Blue Origin lunar landing plans
• [36:08] Reflections, upcoming events

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Final Thoughts

This episode delivers an animated, insightful debrief of Artemis 2. The hosts shine in their honest self-assessment, technical clarity, and celebration of both the technical and very human aspects of lunar exploration. For listeners who missed the spectacular mission—and the media circus—this summary encapsulates both the facts and the infectious spirit of the Artemis era.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Hello, and welcome to this special episode of awesome Astronomy for April 2026.

[A]

It is. It's. It's. It's happened.

[B]

It happened.

[A]

You know it's happened.

[C]

Yeah, you know, we know. We are, of course, talking about Artemis.

[B]

I'm Jenny.

[A]

And I'm Paul. And I.

[B]

And this is our special mini review of Project Artemis. Because the thing is, it's been all over the news.

[A]

Yeah, you know what?

[C]

I know it's been all over the news because I've been all over the news.

[A]

Yeah, you have been a medial.

[C]

Oh, my goodness. I've been frolicking with every kind of BBC.

[A]

You have been on every local radio station. You've been. You were the five Live queen. And that.

[B]

I have to do a big shout out to five Live for that. That was so much fun. I've not done it before. So it was this new thing that called A Friend of the Show.

[A]

Yeah, it was really good.

[B]

So we. Yeah, we were with five Lives. There's a panel of us, and we were with five Live for the launch, the flyby and the landing, and we were, like, commentating on it. And as it was happening, it was.

[A]

And I'm not blowing smoke up your ass.

[B]

Oh, go onto.

[A]

Was actually some of the best coverage. It was actually. It was. It was. It genuinely was, but it was. It was sensible and insightful and it was the right level and it was. It was.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean. Oh, God. I mean, the NASA coverage, it's just. It's like listening to an episode of Blue Peter, which is a children's show for all for our Atlantic transatlantic viewers. That's a children's show over here.

[B]

Here's. Here's how I feel about the NAS coverage. I was in love with their blog posts. The fact that they were releasing pictures left, right, and center. I was loving that as well. The. The regular updates on social media. But I do understand what you're saying about the NASA coverage because they're very excitable, our American friends.

[A]

They're very excitable. And the language level, you're almost expecting them to. A little teddy bear to pop up and go, what do you think, Mr. Fibbles? What do you think of this massive orange rocket? Isn't it cool? It's like, oh, God, please can we talk to us like adults.

[C]

Did you see some American TV show? And I really hope that this is real and it's not AI. I think it is genuine that there was this American, like, you know, news TV show going around at the launch, interviewing people and There was like this

[B]

Australian lad at the launch and so

[C]

obviously they were, oh, God, go and talk to the Australian lad. He's like, flown halfway around the world for this. And they were like, oh, so why are you here today? And they, like, pass in the microphone and he just stands there and looks at him and he's like, cause we're going to the moon. And he's about 10.

[A]

I love Australia is just. Yeah, it's, it's.

[C]

And I really, really hope that it's real and it's not AI'd.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Even if it's AI. Do you know what? It just sums up the thing. It's like. I mean. Yes. I mean, you don't need to ask that question.

[A]

No, it's a stupid. It is a stupid question. Why have you come all the way here?

[C]

Yeah, I just wanted grass because I

[A]

heard the sandwiches in this bar over here are really good. So. So I've flown like 8,000 miles to eat them. Oh, there's a rocket launch next door. Is there? I didn't. I didn't notice.

[B]

How is there?

[A]

Yeah, stupid question, isn't it? I mean, it's. Yeah, but. But that, that was, that was, that was. Yeah. I mean, I thought you're the. The Five Light, actually. Just BBC in general, actually. I thought did, did, did a grand job. They. They actually did.

[B]

Oh, we have to big up the coverage from the BBC. It was sublime. Like, if anyone's listening and they want to go and, like, review, go and look at the NASA blog, but go and look at all the BBC articles, the live updates that they were doing. Phenomenal.

[A]

And they had a range of people. And what was really nice was so I was flicking between like, 5 live, you guys doing your 5 live thing and having the telly on. And there was a bit where I was. I, along with John, we were feeding you information.

[B]

Yes. Because the problem I had. And I will. I have to say thank you to you, like, make sure everyone knows how

[C]

grateful I am for this.

[B]

Because when I was with five Live, I had the TV going, you know, the NAS TV live stream, but I was slightly delayed for the. For some reason. The one I had was like about 20 seconds behind what 5 Live were watching. But I could only have the captions go in because, you know, I was on the radio so I couldn't listen. So, like, I'm delayed with my information. And so then you were in the background just drip feeding me key things.

[C]

It's like, right, you're on.

[B]

No go. This is happening.

[C]

They've Paused.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And honestly, it was team effort because

[C]

I really needed that information.

[A]

I can't remember which phrase it was. I sent you. I sent you a phrase and you said exactly that on the way. I was like, yeah, she said the thing.

[B]

Yeah, I think it was something about. Was this something about Pink Floyd?

[A]

I think it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that was. She said the thing. She said the thing.

[B]

I said. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It was hilarious.

[C]

But.

[A]

But they were great. And I was flicking they on. On their telecom. They had really great sort of coverage where they had. They had Mae Jameson on. I mean, sublime. She's just amazing speaker and was a really great, like there at the launch. They made Jameson and they had Helen Sharman and they had Tim Peake. It was like, what a great. So it's like, you know, really good American, fabulous astronaut, representative of what was going on as well. You know, first person of color to the moon. First person, you know, first woman to the moon. So let's get Mae Jameson on. So that was perfect. She was fantastic. And then they had Tim and Helen, who giving that kind of, you know, British astronaut kind of, you know, speaking our lingo, but doing it in that sort of like explaining all the things that were going on. It was great coverage. They did really well. It was. I thought the BBC hit the right note. It was really good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was much as a. Much better than tinny time on the NASA tv, which I flick to every so often and they'd be like, hey.

[B]

And that's the thing. But like, yeah, their blog posts and all the pictures, all of that was excellent. It was just. Yeah. Sometimes the NASA TV livestream got a bit noddy.

[A]

It did get a bit noddy, to be honest. We've said this before, haven't we? I think we did it as a Christmas panto.

[C]

We did it, didn't we? As Christmas panto A few years ago was NASA tv.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. They always, like, talk to us like adults. It's like.

[B]

Yeah, and this is. That's what they do in the press conferences, right? They talk to us like adults and it's brilliant.

[A]

Completely.

[B]

Yeah. But, yeah, anyway, anyway, we're waxing lyrical

[C]

about the amazing coverage, but we should probably just cover some of what they covered.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's all about the mission.

[B]

So ask this to.

[A]

Well, I'm just gonna say before I go any further, because there's going to be a few people saying we were wrong, we were wrong, we wrong. It did actually go, we're scientists, but we'll say we're wrong.

[B]

We'll backtrack on it. Yeah, of course we will.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We were wrong.

[B]

And I'm happily happy to be wrong.

[A]

As a good scientist, I'm happy to be wrong. I'm happ. Happy to be proved wrong. It's fine. I'm not bothered by it. And it's great. I mean, it happened, so it's good.

[B]

Exactly. And it happened so successfully. It did. My goodness. You could not wish for a better test flight. And I think this is something that is.

[A]

Other than the toilet.

[B]

Yeah, other than the toilet, yeah. Well, they should have got. Shouldn't have hired Howard Wolowitz, should they?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To design the toilet. But we gotta remember, and I think this is glossed over a little bit in the media coverage, that Artemis 2 was a test flight.

[A]

Yes, yes. It was the first flight of a new ship.

[B]

Yes. With people on it, you know, so we had Artemis 1, which was uncrewed, and this is the crewed test flight. So although they did science at the moon, I think what we have to remember is that. That science was actually pretty secondary to the overall goals of the mission.

[A]

We could talk about the science in a minute, what I think of it,

[B]

but, yeah, we will. We'll come on to it. But, you know, this was a test flight. It was making sure that the rocket ride was comfortable. You don't get too many G forces sh. Shaking you as you're going up. Do the carbon dioxide scrubbers work? Because you can only test that with people on board. Can they keep the humidity down? Is the temperature comfortable? Does the exercise, which.

[A]

It wasn't at times.

[B]

No, it wasn't. It was too cold.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were really cold on the first morning, weren't they?

[B]

Yeah, because they had fans going to circulate the air to help with the dehumidifier, but it seems that they were circulating the air too much. And so then the temperature was dropping to an uncomfortable level. But they seemed to kind of tweak that and sort it out a little bit. But, yeah, it was things like, can they do all of the things that they need to do? So can they maneuver their chairs easily? Can they put their hammocks up and down?

[A]

And it's stuff you can't do until you actually get into orbit and get to that microgravity properly. You could. You can trial gadgets on the vomit comet and all that sort of stuff briefly. But that long duration, actually, when. When you're feeling queasy, you know, astronauts, when they feel you know, when they've just launched and it's all new and it's all. Yeah, can they do it? Does the ship work in that way? Yeah, and absolutely. It's a complete test flight.

[B]

And then you've also got the test of the European Space Agency service module. So you know, the power, the propulsion, the solar panels.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The 20 miles of wiring and cables that are locked up in that thing, you know, does everything work? And it seems to mostly be. Yes, yes. I mean it went so well. There were some issues because as you said, it was too cold. The temp, the toilet pages.

[A]

Yeah, that had issues, definitely.

[B]

But at least they had a toilet because on Apollo it was crappy in bags. It was bags and funnels and a

[C]

wish and a prayer. That's what it was on Apollo. So I think they'd rather have a finicky toilet.

[A]

It's a big stage up.

[B]

It is, it is, it is, exactly. And you know, removable chairs so they add more room.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you know, they put their hammocks up and down. So it's definitely a step up from the days of Apollo. But the engine burns. We just have to big up the ease of service module because the quality of the engine burns. They actually cancelled some course corrections because they just were not needed.

[A]

So accurate, so precise. You mean, you mean the organization that is also was also responsible for Ariane 5 and the launch of JWST that was absolutely like almost millimeter perfect and was like the. One of the most perfect launches. Yeah, the same organization created a spaceship that could, could fly. I mean, who would have thunk it?

[B]

Yeah, I know, it's just like, it's just so beautiful that the European bit was just. It was, it was, it was beautiful. Beautiful.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. And, and that's it. It's. Which is brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. I mean it's. And I love the fact that it's, I mean one reasons it probably did work so well is because that in a way wasn't a new spaceship because it's actually just an evolution of the atv.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Because the ATV was the resupply ship to the, the ISS that Europe built.

[B]

Okay. So they just kind of adapted and

[A]

it was a brilliant, you know, fabulous spaceship that was the. One of the first automatic spaceships that actually could automatically dock and all the rest of it. So yeah, it was packed full of, you know, it was really cutting edge stuff. It was stuff that NASA couldn't do back at that point. Yeah, exactly. But it was a really cutting edge ship and it was, it was that kind of real demonstration of where esa, what ESA could do. And the service module is essentially an evolution of the atv. So it actually wasn't an entirely new ship in that sense.

[B]

But then neither is sls, Right.

[A]

No, but, yeah, yeah, the sls, of course, is space shuttle. It's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Basically all space shuttles. I mean, the engines literally are literally are flown. Flight.

[B]

Flown space shuttle engines.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Really? Yeah, so, yeah, so actually there was a lot of. A lot of proven. Yeah. Recycled tech.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Wasn't in a way, the Orion was actually the most new bit itself in a way is most important bit because it's bits keeping them alive. But that, that was actually the newest bit. Everything else was actually an evolution or a recycling.

[B]

And their suits are very cool. They're new. They're Orion crew survival suits.

[A]

I'm just gonna say, when you don't go out of your way to make something look cool, it looks cool. It's a rule of thumb.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you don't go out of your way. So SpaceX's suits look crap because they've

[B]

got giant black wellies on.

[A]

They look like absolute flans. They really do because they've gone out of their way to try and make it look cool. The so cool suit is absolutely iconic because. No, the Russians didn't go out their way to make it look cool. It just looks cool. The Apollo suit just looks cool.

[B]

Epic.

[A]

Yeah, it's an epic suit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

These suits looked really cool because they just look absolutely amazing.

[B]

They are brilliant because they can survive in those suits for up to six days.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

Which is astonishing because they're not an EVA suit. No, these are just like a pressurized suit for. They use them for launch and landing, but if the capsule depressurized, it would keep them alive. It would keep them alive, which is astonishing, isn't it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What a bit of kit that is. Because there's going to be an EVA suit tested on Artemis 3, which we'll come on to later. But yeah, it's not even the EVA suits that. That is still.

[A]

Yeah, that's. It's cool. So they just look great. It was great. Yeah, I was very impressed. But yeah, I mean, that's. I mean that's the first new NASA spacesuit for a very long time as well. I mean, God, the, the suits, the shuttle suit ones they use, they've been. They went back to the late 70s and the EVA suits that they've been using are essentially recycled Apollo tech and everything that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And got them in the EVA suits on the iss go back. They're literally ancient.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So this is really cool.

[B]

But yeah, so just numbers on what they achieved. Just. We like numbers. So nearly 700,000 miles flown.

[A]

700,000 miles.

[B]

700,000 miles. You'd be happy if you got through the MOT on that, wouldn't you?

[A]

That's a lot of miles. That's, that's, that.

[B]

That's ship is now well proven, put through its paces.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you will be able. The sell on value is quite low now.

[B]

Yeah. 4,000 miles past the moon.

[A]

Yeah, that's a long way.

[B]

Maximum distance from Earth. So this is the most precise number. I'll give you 252,756 miles.

[A]

Astonishing, isn't it? It is astonishing. Over a quarter of a million miles

[B]

from Earth and I think the Most important number. 58 tortillas.

[A]

58 tortillas. Love it, love it. But what I was gonna say about quarter million miles is in some senses it's absolutely astonishing because that's such a long way, but at the same time it's also not very far at all. Yeah, it depends how you look at it from a human perspective. Quarter of a meter miles is flipping miles. It's way past the moon. Or actually in terms of space and

[B]

the solar system, it's still going into our back garden.

[A]

It's still nowhere. I make the point. In fact, I was doing an astronomy event the other night and we were talking about distances and I said, you know, like, going to the moon is essentially like going to your garden shed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, if the solar system's a street, then we've only been to the garden shed. That's as far as we've gone. And in fact. So all we did this time was go behind the garden shed and check out a little bit of garden behind the shed.

[B]

Yeah. Be like, what did we shiver on the back of you?

[A]

Yeah, exactly. But it's still astonishing because that's as far as we've gone. That is the furthest we've ever been and that's quite, quite incredible.

[B]

And you know, the first person of color, first woman, first non American to do it as well.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, they didn't go too far. He was technically still American because he's North American, but you know, they.

[B]

He's Canadian.

[A]

Yeah, he's North American.

[B]

Oh, I'm with you now. North American.

[A]

Canadians are Americans in the, in the broader sense, in a sense from the Americas. I'm with you now in the same way we're European. You know, it's the same.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you now.

[A]

But there's loads of Canadians now screaming, I'm not American. Actually, when I used to live in Canada, people used to say they were American, actually. They used to say, look, well, actually, we're from the continent, America. We are Americans in that broader sense. So didn't go too far. But he was amazing. I love Johansson.

[B]

He was great. Should we talk about some of our favorite moments?

[A]

Go with him.

[B]

Like, we're gonna go on. Talk about Jeremy.

[A]

Oh, Jeremy's brilliant. And I loved. He's my favorite thing about his was his mission patch, actually. I thought.

[B]

I thought he was saying about this on the Bat Channel. Yeah, we should talk about this.

[A]

He's actually. He just comes up as a really nice guy, as you would expect.

[B]

Also, he's gigantic compared to the others. Not fat. He's just like, half a foot taller than.

[A]

He's huge. He's huge. He looks like the kind of guy just, like, fill a doorway.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's. But he just comes across a really nice guy. And, I mean, he's married to a health service doctor and things in Canada. And. And he's an advocate for, like, first nations rights in Canada. So he's an Air Force pilot. He's got all these sort of, like, other interests, and he's a big advocate for a bit of an expert in kind of first nations rights and things like that in Canada, which is just what you'd expect of a Canadian these days. I mean, it's just what they like. So. Yeah, his patch was designed by an artist from the Anishinaabe tribe, which is a First Nation group. That's the Ontario by the Great Lakes. And it has this fabulous patch, and it's all about what's called the Teachings of the Seven Grandfathers. And so you see all these, like. And they're basically as the constellations, and it's. It's this sort of, you know, story of the sky and things like that. And. And of course, there's Grandmother Moon, which is. You see the moon represented as this. This. This woman. And there's. There's the beaver for wisdom, and the eagle for love, and the buffalo's respect. And the bear is bravery, and the raven is honesty, and the wolf is humility. And the turtle is truth. And then you have the moon, which was, you know, Grandmother Moon. So is this sort of.

[B]

You hear of like, Mother Earth. And then so I go, this is like Grandmother Moon, which was a new one for me.

[A]

So In. But it was just that sort of. Yes, he's a, dare I say, oh, you know, a white male Canadian, you know, sort of. But what he ensured as he took as that first, you know, a Canadian, first non American to go away from Earth and go somewhere. He took that story with him and he took that.

[B]

That was beautiful.

[A]

And I think that was really important. And it's a really, you know, part of the kind of what Artemis was actually about. That was. That was really good.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I. Because when you pointed it out to me, because I didn't realize that they had individual patches, I thought it was just like the Artemis one. But when you pointed it out to me, I thought it was really beautiful. And I think, yeah, you really did get a sense of humanity from this mission.

[A]

Yes, you did.

[B]

And I loved that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think. And I think that's where, I mean, getting onto the science side of it. I know we had this discussion, didn't we? And I said, like. Like, come on. The science, really. Yeah, it was. It was, you know, it was a test flight. The science was very much a.

[B]

A secondary add on, like. And I think that's fair to say it is valuable. Like, what they did is useless still. Knowledge gathered.

[A]

But there was a bit of knowledge gathered. But let's face it, the moon has been mapped in quite exquisite detail by robotic probes for years now. There is. We have permanent 247 eyes on the moon with robotic probes. So to say that there is, like, this was big science because NASA were really trying to sell it.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, come on. Like, it is science, but it's not the big science.

[A]

The thing that demonstrated it to me made me absolutely. I literally spat my drink out across the thing. Because there was. On the flyby, there was Victor, and he describes something out like he'd seen out the window. And he's like, I could see this line of crater going across and it's coming out from this bigger crater. And literally the scientist came on the radio and it's that Blue Peter thingy. And it was like, yes, that's right, Victor. We call that a chain ray crater. Well done. I thought she was gonna give him a flipping sticker. I thought she was like, well done. You've seen a thing that we know all about and have mapped exquisitely, but well done. It was like, yeah, that kind of.

[C]

That kind of sums up some of the science.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Though I think that the micrometeoroid flashes on the right side of the moon were actually very useful.

[A]

Yes. I Think so. And there were. Of course there were. And I think it was actually Chris Lintot, who was on five Live with you. Yeah, friend of the show, Chris Lintot. And he actually, I think, summed it up really well where he said, look, in terms of the actual science value going on here, it's not. It's quite minimal. What's important is the human experience. And that was the thing that the pictures are taking and the reports they're making, and the kind of the feedback is just not something you can get from a. From a robotic probe. That is something different. And actually, what's more valuable was the human experience of going there and seeing it and talking about it and describing it and taking those amazing images.

[B]

Not robotic images, but actual human artwork.

[A]

Humans saw this and the view they were trying to transmit, the view that humanity sees. Not just a robot that's set up to take the perfect picture. And that was really important. That, to me, was, if you want the science value. I think Chris was right. That was the science value.

[B]

It's the human aspect 100%. And I think it was interesting because they could see the light changing quite rapidly as they're moving around. So you don't necessarily get that quick perspective when you've got these much lower orbiters.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So. And as well, you know, they noticed two new craters that hasn't been named, and I thought that was really beautiful when they chose to name one of them after Reid Wiseman's wife, I thought, that is lovely. And I think that that. That human side of this mission is so important, and it does highlight how having humans on these missions really gives a different perspective. It allows us to connect so much more. Like, people around the world fell in love with this mission in a way that they don't fall in love with an orbiter around Saturn.

[A]

No.

[B]

Or another orbiter around Mars.

[A]

And then that's. I mean, I have to remind myself of that because, I mean, in some respects, I'll fully admit, I actually find some of this mission quite dull. I said that at the time. I was like, it's quite boring at the moment. They're like, what are they doing there? They're eating tortillas on a. Like, it felt at times like a camper van trip.

[B]

Yeah. But they were, like, on that in between bit like the first 24 hours, really dramatic and exciting, and it's like, oh, now they go in.

[A]

I actually think partly it was to do with the 247 nature of the coverage, like winding back a bit on the Coverage thing. I actually think that was because I don't like 247 news. I'm not a big fan of it because I think it just, it goes repetitive and you just, you're just hearing the same, like, you're just feeding the same doom story for 24 hours. And I think back to like some missions and you get those kind of right, we're having an update at 6 o'. Clock. We'll show you all the pictures, we'll show you the thing and there'll be a nice report and you'll, you know, the astronauts will talk and then you have to go away and do something else. Whereas when it's just on all the time, eventually you're just like, I'm just watching four people in a caravan. That's what I'm doing here. Why am I watching this? What, what?

[B]

Like, and it can get a bit overload, can't it? But I did find that this is where the BBC absolutely nailed it because when there was stuff happening, they were on it, they were updating us constantly. And then when it was like those days where they were like, right, okay, they've got a few objectives, here they are, we'll come back tomorrow. Yeah, you know, and it was just a little update. Yeah. And then when it was like the flyby, it was live coverage and really intense again. And it was that, that waxing and waning.

[A]

I just wonder if in terms of like NASA coverage as well, they just need to think about that kind of on the boring days perhaps just, just don't do the 247 constant. Constant. Just actually like do a little update at some point. Like, look, we'll do an update on, on art twice today. We do it in the morning, in the evening, little, little news conference. Here's the, here's the latest information. Quick chat with astronauts just, just to make. Because otherwise it just, people start saying insipid things just like, you know, just boring things where you just like, oh, come on, this is, this is a bit dull now. But the thing is I'm someone who's, you know, spacey and does so. So you get jade because you do get kind of, oh God, this thing's been going on forever. And, and actually, you know, there were times thinking, oh, do you know what? I'm actually more excited about the nuclear ship that's going to go to Mars. You know, that's what's really. I can't wait for that. But I have to remind myself that actually most people couldn't give too hoot about a Nuclear ship to Mars.

[B]

Because it's just. But this. This is awesome.

[A]

But this is really cool because it's the human experience and it's going to the moon. And there's another. There's a different view of the world and the moon and humanity, and that's. That's different. So it's the different views of it and how people interact with it.

[B]

So I think, overall, I think it's fair to say that we really enjoyed this mission. It was handled really well. Those astronauts, the choice, they were the perfect choice.

[A]

They were great.

[B]

They were amazing all the way through, you know, because they were really open and genuine. There were some really funny moments.

[C]

There was that one bit where they cut the NASA feed really quickly because Victor started having a wash after his exercise. And it's just stuff like the Jar of Nutell, just, like float it across.

[A]

There's the problem of the 247 coverage. You've got to give them some time to just not have the cameras in the world watching them having a shit, basically, you know.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, I genuinely. One of my favorite pictures from this

[B]

mission, you know, I love, like, the Earth set ones and when you've got the tiny little crescent Earth and the moons looming large, and I love all of those. But there is one after they've done the flyby and they are in a tight group hug and you can just see Victor's face. Everyone else is, like, in the hug, and he is just beaming with such pure joy. And to me, it's like, this is why we put people in space. This is why we do it. I found it so inspirational, so moving.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it's inspirational on so many levels. Not just the science side, but, you know, to see everyone coming together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How people can actually enjoy their jobs and their careers, which I think is wonderful to see.

[A]

And it was a wonderfully uplifting thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a sea of doom. At the moment, it has been a sea of doom, which was pleasant. It was.

[B]

It was.

[A]

It was nice to see. I mean, in a way, it was. You know, it's going back to the 60s. I mean, we had a mission to the moon and a forever war going on in the background. I mean.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Yeah, exactly. But it was so lovely to have something just purely joyous because, you know, nothing really went wrong. There were blips. That's what I would call them. On a test flight. There were some blips if. If you.

[A]

If you flew any new aeronautical craft with that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you would be pleased with that. You would be pleased with that. You know, 100. You fly any new airliner, fighter jet, whatever it is, if you had that few, like, you know, the. The equivalent of the toilet not working occasionally, and it was a bit cold, and, you know, the air conditioning was a bit too fierce. You take that 100. That was a. It was a great return. It'd be really interesting to see what's happened to the Shield. I mean, I'm. I'm fascinated to see, like, what results are of actually how the Shield stood up and things like, you know, it's now into that kind of. The. The engineer scientist in me is going up right now. Let's. Let's hear the nitty gritty of actually what happened.

[B]

Yeah. And we should talk about that because it's what comes next. Right. Because they've gone through their medical tests, they've reunited with their friends and family, and so it's going to now be an intense period of kind of liaison with NASA reporting back to them. Also the European Space Agency, the Canadian Space Agency, all the partners helping the engineers, the scientists analyze the performance data so that then they can write a report and say, okay, on the face of it, Artemis 2 was successful. Was it really successful? Let's look at the data.

[A]

Yeah. Because sometimes you can find stuff where you go, oh, actually, yeah, that was a bit naughty. That was closer than we thought it was. And actually, on a different day, that might have gone really badly wrong.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it doesn't look like it. There's no hints of that, but.

[B]

No, it's possible there was a helium leak on the main thruster of the European Service module. However, they knew about that before they flew, and it's already gonna have replacement parts and be revamped for Artemis 3. So it's like, that is a bit of an issue, but they knew about it. It wasn't ever dangerous, and it was just an internal leak as well. Not like an external one. It's just like a conditioning issue. But, yeah, so it'll be. We'll. We'll get a report on how well everything went in a few months, and now they're working towards Artemis 3, which is scheduled for mid-2027.

[A]

If you know Jared's. You know, they're gonna get the stack going already and get it. Get it going and. Yeah, I mean, actually, they haven't got long in the big, big picture now.

[B]

No. But then the. Ready.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, they are starting to. They. They send in the parts now to the vehicle assembly building. So the rocket's not the bottleneck. It's our very favorite. Musky and Bezos, an old egghead himself, head to head. They are literally in competition with each

[A]

other in competition to screw this up as much as they possibly can.

[B]

Oh, my God. I mean, this is the thing. Blue Origin and SpaceX are literally in competition to make the lunar lander.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this is what the mid-2027 mission is. It's a low Earth orbit docking mission with the Orion capsule and the landers.

[A]

I'm gonna.

[B]

My money's on Blue Origin.

[A]

I was gonna say that's gonna say same thing. All the hints I've been reading recently is that Blue Origin ahead in the game. Yep. And that their lander will be ready before.

[B]

I mean, the thing is, they're going this year on an uncrewed, just cargo version of their lander. So that's one box tick that space is even planning.

[A]

Exactly. If they do that, then they're way ahead of the game.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, they're doing that. The, that NASA is insisting that whichever lander they choose, they have to do an uncrewed landing on the moon and before they put astronauts on. And I am so glad that they are.

[A]

Very much so.

[B]

So it's almost like an Artemis 3B

[A]

mission, which is actually something they didn't do on Apollo. Because they couldn't really do it on Apollo.

[B]

No. Because they had to have a manual

[A]

control, which is how risky. You realize how risky the Apollo 11 landing was? Because it was, it was. And it was considered 50. 50 that it would work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah.

[B]

So yeah, it's. I mean, look at. Starship hasn't even orbited once. And how many orbits do they need?

[C]

We're still waiting for.

[A]

The current test flight keeps getting put back.

[B]

Doesn't it have flown in months? And you know, can we, can we go run through the plan for starship again? Because I love this. It's like my favorite oh Lord plan in the sense of. It's my favorite because it's absolutely batty.

[A]

Yeah. Well, they've reduced the number of. They think number docking like refuelings, haven't they? They think they've reduced number of refuelings that they'll need.

[C]

Go on to how many go on.

[A]

Oh, I don't know. I can't remember how it was, but

[C]

I remember reading gone from two dozen to 15.

[A]

Yes, exactly. It's like.

[C]

Yeah, it's just laughable.

[A]

They've made the lander more rigid in an attempt to avoid the toppling thing, which they're suddenly kind of admitting that might be an issue.

[B]

Oh, okay. Right. So I think actually let's, let's run through what the crazy like SpaceX plan is and then we'll compare it to the Blue Origin plan.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So

[C]

get comfortable because I'm going to be speaking for a while. So the plan for the human landing

[B]

system with Starship is you launch the starship that will land on the moon. It goes into Earth orbit, you then launch 10, 15, 20, nobody knows how many of the starships to refuel the initial starship, which is of course boiling off fuel all the time the longer it's in orbit.

[C]

So you have to keep, it's almost like a, like zero sum game. You never will fill it up. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then, then when it's got enough fuel to get to the moon, it goes off to the moon and loiters in lunar orbit. Then you launch Orion on the sls, which goes off to the moon. Then they dock in lunar orbit, they go into starship, Starship goes down to the moon. Stick with me.

[C]

They do their thing.

[B]

Coming down on the outside.

[C]

I know, with the lid.

[A]

What the hell is that about?

[C]

Can you imagine if it sticks?

[A]

It's just like long gondola ride for a man.

[C]

Yeah. One giant phallus.

[A]

No, I say one giant phallic rocket.

[C]

And then, and then when everything's done, they, they then take off from the moon and then they, they re dock with Orion and then Orion brings him home. And then Blue Origin's plan is we launch the lander, it goes to the moon. Yeah, we launch Orion, it goes to the moon, they dock, it lands, they

[B]

go back up, Orion takes him home.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Ta da. Like, I just, my money is on Blue Origin. It, it just is because it's not

[C]

like either of them have ever landed on before.

[B]

Like, so it's not like one of them's got an edge somewhere. I, I, but we don't need to

[A]

worry about it for a moment because of course Arsenal 3 is not going to be a landing. It's just going to be a test and hopefully a docking test and we'll see where that goes. That's going to be interesting, but a great mission. It's been fabulous watching it and well done you for all your, all your work and courage. I know you're absolutely exhausted from it all.

[B]

You've done so many blooming knackered.

[A]

I bet you are. Days and days and days of talking to people. It's been, but it's been fab.

[B]

Yeah, it was, it was really good fun. It's it's just. Yeah, a lot. So I'm quite glad that there's a bit of a break now between Artemis 2 and 3.

[C]

So I can, you know, get more than five hours sleep a night. That would be lovely.

[A]

I say that was the problem. A lot of it was in the middle of the night for you. It was like.

[B]

Yeah, that's the thing is it's like five live. I was up until 12 o' clock in the morning. Morning. So, you know, and then having to do work and catch up on everything.

[A]

And yes, it was lucky for me it was Easter holidays here. So I wasn't, I wasn't. I was barely working so I was doing the odd little thing. But actually I was, I was, I wasn't teaching. Yeah, actually it was actually quite nice because after, after long I was like, well, I have a little lay in.

[B]

Yeah, I'd have to jump. Oh, it's okay. I can stay up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Well that's probably all from us wittering on about Artemis and we will, we will, we will be back soon because it's Astro camp very shortly and say very shortly in about three days time. And so we will have more. More from. From the wonderful dark, uber dark skies. Kundi. So you're going to get even more from us this month.

[B]

Yeah, I know. It's going to be like three episodes this month. You left bonus month.

[A]

So until then it's goodbye from. Well, the Mario.

[B]

Oriental Mario.

[A]

Yes. Don't get me started on that. The whole. Have we never seen it before? It's like you can see it under libration. Anyway.

[B]

I know when you pointed that out to me I was like, well, I don't get what NASA's saying there but I guess what they mean is you

[A]

can't see the whole thing from above. Implant you. It was Apollo 17 saw it but it was kind of they below and they didn't see all of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it kind of has been seen. You can see under libration so you can see sort of the whole thing. But actually I know what they mean. It was like the whole thing.

[B]

Yeah, like square on. It's like oh, talk about nuance.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Anyway, toodle pep.

[A]

Bye bye.

[D]

Awesome Astronomy is produced by Ralph Paul, Jen, John Damian and Dustin and is free to use with attribution. Theme music by Star Salzman with stinger variation by Rin Jorgensen we promote general science, astronomy, space exploration and rational thinking with more resources on our [e-mail] if you want us to read your thoughts and comments out on the show. Send us your views, opinions, critiques or questions to the [e-mail] tweet us @awesomeastropod or give the awesome Astronomy Facebook page a like and leave your comments there. Thanks for listening. From Cydonia Base Head of Transmission.