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- [00:00]
A
Sometimes the metaphors write themselves. When the battleships HMS Revenge and HMS Royal Sovereign were launched during the Great War, they were the cutting edge of technology, born of a confident industrial and scientific nation that was most powerful on the planet. A couple of decades later, In World War II, these ships were still there, no longer the cutting edge, unmodernised and struggling to keep pace with a world that was moving ever more quickly, a world that was creating jet engines, computers and atomic bombs. They struggled on, the day was won, the dark, twisted ideology of Nazism defeated. But these two old battleships lived on into a new realm, scrapped and sold off. The mechanisms that powered their enormous gun turrets would now be incorporated into the white heat of post war technology, a statement to a new world order that global power was no longer just measured in caliber and bayonet count, but in scientific exploration, academic knowledge and revealing a universe to a public long tired of conflict and destruction. Jodrell bank was born. The steel that defended Empire at its peak, took on evil during Empire's decline, was now going to move Britain to the front in the empire of the mind, a world where everything and anything seemed possible, where the frontiers moved rapidly out into the depths of space and funding and championing science was held to be a mark of progress and modernity. And today, well, perhaps it is the long decline of Britain finally reaching its inevitable asset stripped, privatised, anti intellectual conclusion. A nation that has slowly turned its back on truth, on evidence and most obviously on science. One that has embraced division and hate, that declares it is tired of experts and now thinks that balance means that all arguments have equal weight. Science denied, experts silenced, minorities targeted, and those twisted ideologies that revenge and royal sovereign helped defeat back again and openly supported and voted for by almost a third of the country. Is it any wonder that the science budget is cut so easily and Jodrell bank closed down? I'm an angry Paul and I am
- [02:05]
B
an absolutely livid Jen.
- [02:07]
A
And this is a furious episode 179 of awesome Astronomy for August 2026. Cue angry music. Yeah. Grr, grr.
- [02:26]
B
Indeed. Like we're avoiding chatty, chatty time. Yeah, this episode, basically because we did a lot of chatty time last time and it's only like a week since the last episode. And also I think we're both very angry.
- [02:42]
A
Very angry. I mean, you can't even put it. Well, I did just put it into words, I suppose.
- [02:48]
B
You put it into very eloquent words, I thought.
- [02:50]
A
But I mean, how do you put it into words fully? It just, I mean, seriously, I think
- [02:58]
B
let's begin at the beginning because I think any listeners outside of the UK may not know what we're talking about. And this is the outrage that is sweeping the astronomy world. Well, the astronomy world that resides in the uk. And this is the, the absolutely blinkered, backwards thinking decision to defund George Roll bank as of 2028.
- [03:35]
A
Yes,
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B
this is the decision. So as it stands as we record, George Robank will operate as a scientific institution until spring 2028 and then it is no more.
- [03:54]
A
And how do you put into words what what Jodrell bank means? And it's not just British astronomy. In world astronomy, I mean. Oh, it's in simpleton. It's the third largest steerable radio telescope in the world. It was the largest when it was first built. It is huge. It's an enormous dish.
- [04:18]
B
So I first saw it.
- [04:19]
A
It's the third largest now.
- [04:21]
B
Yeah, I first saw it. I was on a train coming back from Manchester and I didn't expect to see it. Yeah, it wasn't anticipating it. And I was just sat on the correct side of the track and I was on the phone to my auntie actually, and I just finished the phone call and then I remember just kind of looking out of the window and it just appeared through the trees.
- [04:46]
A
And it's enormous.
- [04:47]
B
It is enormous. So we're talking about a radio dish. So you are not talking about a big dome or anything like that. It's this enormous white exposed dish, classic like, you know, radio dish that you think of just in the middle of the countryside in Cheshire.
- [05:08]
A
And it still looks, I mean, in 1957 is when it, it opened. And it still looks like something else. Science fiction.
- [05:19]
B
Yeah.
- [05:19]
A
It looks so incongruous sitting there in the middle of the British countryside. This just enormous. Yeah, enormous dish.
- [05:27]
B
Here's his fun factoid. It is so large, it can be seen from 20 miles away.
- [05:34]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's just massive.
- [05:38]
B
Yeah.
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A
20 miles. I mean, put that into perspective because your horizon is typically not that far, but it's so tall, it's so big that you can see it from 20 miles away. Yeah, that's crazy, isn't it?
- [05:51]
B
It's Mars, isn't it? And, yeah, I think, I think to just kind of set the scene of what we want to do here with our discussion on Georgia bank is I. I found this, this lovely quote from the BBC, right? It was BBC article about George or Bank and the level telescope. So it says the BBC quote is, the government has decided to pull funding for the George or Bank Observatory to focus investment on projects that deliver local long term impact. I think we should challenge the government's
- [06:27]
A
assumption the third largest radio telescope in the world has no long term impact whatsoever.
- [06:34]
B
Right. And this is, this is what I think we're going to. I, well I would like to propose that we do in this discussion is we challenge the government's statement that George Robank Observatory does not deliver long term impact.
- [06:50]
A
No, indeed.
- [06:51]
B
You've got some cool factoids to kick us off.
- [06:53]
A
Yeah, See before we get, we get going, I mean here's a few factoids. I love it, love it. The top 10 factoids about Jodrell bank. Just to kind of, you know, this, this beloved thing.
- [07:04]
B
Yeah. This beloved radio telescope that has existed since the 50s that doesn't deliver long term impact.
- [07:11]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's been operating, it's been operating since the late 50s. Doesn't, you know, has no impact science or world history in fact. So let's go through some factoids I might like and set the scene before we discuss like what it's doing. So first of all, it's the world first in size. When it was commissioned in 1957, what's called, it was called telescope one, but it's now, it's now the Lovell Telescope, named after its creator. And the Lovell Telescope was the largest steerable disc telescope in the world. Diameter of 250ft, 76.2 meters. Curry remains the third largest of its kind globally still, after all these years is still the third largest.
- [07:50]
B
Yeah.
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A
So it's just how big it is.
- [07:52]
B
1957 to 2026. And it is still number three.
- [07:57]
A
Yes, exactly. It's still number three. Only beaten by Green bank in West Virginia and Effelsburg in Germany. Only two other scopes, durable scopes that are larger.
- [08:10]
B
76 meters.
- [08:12]
A
Yeah, it's huge. Unbelievable, right? Battleship Beginnings. As I mentioned in the beginning, it's an incredible feat of post war engineering and recycling. As I mentioned in the intro, parts of the scope altitude rotator bearings, the machinery used to tilt the whole thing were taken from the 15 inch gun turret mechanisms of two battleships, HMS Revenge and HMS Royal Sovereign.
- [08:35]
B
I love that, I love that. It's made of recycled bits.
- [08:38]
A
Yeah, it's brilliant. And the fact that one of those, some of those mechanisms actually fought at the Battle of Jutland in 1916. How cool is that?
- [08:50]
B
There's no long term impact though.
- [08:53]
A
Anyway, tracking the dawn of the space age is my next, my third fact. Okay. The telescope's very first act was a historic one in 1957, it was the only instrument on Earth capable of tracking the carrier rocket of Sputnik 1, of course, the world's first artificial satellite.
- [09:10]
B
Look at that.
- [09:11]
A
The first thing that actually outside the Soviet Union could confirm that, that thing. And in fact, they couldn't even track it in the Soviet Union like it was tracked. Jodrell Bank. So, you know, this, this was, you know, cutting edge stuff. Next, number four, following on from that, monitoring the moon landings. Throughout the early space race, Jodrell bank played a crucial role. IT tracked early US and Soviet moon probes, monitored Soviet Luna 9 probe landing in 1966, helped track historic Apollo 11 mission when humans first walked on the moon in 1969. Absolutely crucial part of the whole network of monitoring this.
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B
Yeah.
- [09:46]
A
Next, this one, which again, I think you know, that whole argument about, okay, what does astronomy do and what does, you know, science do? And in terms of like the broader picture. Well, it was part of the Cold War early warning system. During the first six years of its operation, the telescope also served as a secret early warning system for Soviet missile launches. During the tense 1962 Cuban missile crisis. It remained pointed at the Soviet Union for 10 straight days. It literally was the only thing capable in the UK at the time of basically giving us early warning of incoming nuclear attack.
- [10:19]
B
But, you know, it's just, you don't even have to add anything to it.
- [10:23]
A
What do you want?
- [10:24]
B
What does a giant radio telescope do for us? Right, right.
- [10:27]
A
Discovering the cosmos. Let's get into the actual, you know, the astronomy. So the Lava telescope has made monumental contributions to astronomy. It's played a major role in discovery of quasars or supermassive black holes and helped demonstrate grav lensing, providing key evidence for Einstein's theory of general relativity.
- [10:43]
B
And we'll dig into like some of the more modern science that it's doing.
- [10:46]
A
Exactly.
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B
A little bit later, number seven.
- [10:51]
A
So UNESCO World Heritage status.
- [10:53]
B
As if that doesn't say that it's important, I don't know what does.
- [10:57]
A
So in July 2019, Jodrell Bank Observatory was inscribed as a UNESCO World Heritage Site. Recognized its pioneering role in radio astronomy and its primary profound, profound impact on our understanding of the universe. But, you know, no long term kind of impact.
- [11:14]
B
No at all at all.
- [11:17]
A
Just for the name. Nice little history factoid here. Another one. An Archer's legacy. The site is named after William Jorderel, spelt J A U D E R E L L. Of course, it gets corrupt over the years. 14th century English archer who fought at the battle of Agincourt and was rewarded with a land by the crown. How about that?
- [11:41]
B
Well, that's a fun factoid. I like that one.
- [11:42]
A
Good, innit? I like that. Like that one. Extreme sensitivity number nine. The Lovell telescope is so incredibly sensitive to radio waves that mobile phones are completely forbidden on the site. To prevent interference, even the microwave in the staff tea room has to be shielded inside a metal box.
- [12:01]
B
I love that. And that reminds me of that story once where, like, people thought they found aliens, like alien signals, because they kept detecting this, like, burst of radio signals. I don't think it was with the level telescope, but it's just a fun little aside that the radio researchers just kept detecting these little bursts of radio waves and didn't really matter where they were pointing the sky. There was no sense in terms of the time either. And they just could not figure it out. And they were like, oh, my God, is this, Is this it? Is this aliens? And it turns out what it actually was is people were opening the microwave in the staff room before the beeper has gone off, and so it was
- [12:41]
A
releasing a burst, releasing a little burst
- [12:44]
B
of microwaves, microwaves that the telescopes were then picking up. So.
- [12:47]
A
Yeah, but I love it.
- [12:49]
B
Back to dodgeball.
- [12:50]
A
And then factoid number 10, which is possibly the most important. It appeared in 1981 Doctor who serial Logopolis, where Tom Baker's fourth Doctor tragically falls to his death from a walkway on the dish, causing him to regenerate into Peter Davison. But, you know, fifth doctor, literally. Like, what more do you want?
- [13:14]
B
Exactly. It's like part of legitimate British history right there.
- [13:19]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Keystone.
- [13:24]
B
Yeah.
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A
Sort of factoids, anyway. Yeah, cool. But JoJo.
- [13:27]
B
But Georgia today. What is Jojo bank today? So Jojo bank, over the years has been, it's been continually updated. Right. So it's not just this old hack radio dish that we just kind of keep chugging away. It is continually updated with new instruments to keep it relevant. Right. So much so that is part of something called the E Merlin Network. Now, this is a network of five other telescopes along with Joshua, they work together and they act as one giant radio telescope with a baseline of over 200 kilometers. So it's like the equivalent of building a 200 kilometer radio dish. You can't do that. So what you do is you get radio telescopes in different places to point together, they're time synced, they work together and then they act as one giant radio telescope.
- [14:27]
A
Process called interferometry.
- [14:28]
B
Yeah.
- [14:29]
A
And, and it basically the, the, the computer essentially fills in the gaps.
- [14:34]
B
Yeah.
- [14:34]
A
Based on. As if the dish had like patches that could pick up things and then you basically. You fill in the gaps.
- [14:41]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [14:42]
A
You infer. And so it means. Yeah. Essentially you have a 200 kilometer. So it's like basically Britain and I think it's Holland. I think one of the dishes is in, in Holland I seem to remember. Basically creates this huge dish.
- [14:57]
B
Yeah. Enormous dish. And it allows you to peer deeper, greater resolution than you could ever do with a single dish alone. And just to prove how essentially Jodrell bank is. Jodrell bank is where all the data goes to be combined. So all of the magic happens for the E. Merlin network at Jodrell. Without Jodrell E. Merlin disappears.
- [15:22]
A
Yeah. One of the key radio instruments on the planet.
- [15:26]
B
Yeah. Just poof, gone. And the, the sort of work that it's looking at is like you said, about finding supermassive black holes and looking at galaxy evolution, looking at star formation, planet formation as well. Right. So it's all these different branches of astrophysics. But beyond the astrophysics, literally days before this announcement came out, George Orbang released like infographics and stuff and new data about satellite tracking and space, space debris tracking, which the telescope is also doing. And considering what we're going to come on to, an interesting story next about satellites in space and the amount that's up there and the way the debris is growing, it shows that George or Bank is completely essential.
- [16:18]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's just bonkers. It's bonkers. Literally. It couldn't be more relevant, could not be a more relevant sort of facility. You have, you know, the government made its big defense announcement recently and one of the key, key things in it was space defense and the monitoring of space and orbital debris and potential peer rivals craft in space. And literally you're going to shut down this like multi purpose facility that absolutely can provide you with a big chunk of that information and data.
- [16:58]
B
Yep.
- [16:58]
A
So even forgetting the science on a purely like national interest basis, Jodrell bank is not just a research facility. It literally can be part of your, your kind of national interest and defense as it has been through its entire history.
- [17:13]
B
Yep. Yeah. I mean, right from tracking Sputnik 1 because we didn't know what Sputnik 1 was.
- [17:18]
A
No, exactly. And being able to be the only thing that could give you warning of a nuclear attack. Yeah, literally. And being able to track, you know, the Soviets landing on the moon and the Americans landing on the moon and things like literally this is what you can do with this thing. And you're entering this era of, you know, kind of the, the kind of militarization of space and you're going to remove one of the big pieces of equipment that you can monitor all sorts of things with. Yeah, so. So short sighted. Even, even beyond the science.
- [17:46]
B
Yeah.
- [17:47]
A
Just having that, that facility there, it's not, not realizing what that does. As I've said it before, well, the van vandals and idiots basically do not know what they do.
- [18:00]
B
And thousands of astronomers use data from Joshua bank every single year. In terms of direct job losses, it's about 30 direct job losses. But then it's estimated it's about 3,000 astronomers every year are using data from Georgia Bank. So yeah, that's, that's more work that they will lose when, when, you know, budgets are already being cut, grants are already disappearing. It's like another blow to UK astronomy.
- [18:37]
A
Yeah. It's just being slowly killed. It's being slowly killed is, it's a, it's the death of a thousand cuts.
- [18:42]
B
It is. And George or Bank is used as a training facility. So it's not just the active science that it does, but it prepares the next generation of radio astronomers. And these radio astronomers, you know, not only will they go on to use facilities like the Square Kilometer Array, because George Moore bank is a pathfinder for ska. Like E Merlin is a pathfinder for ska. It's supposed to be the global headquarters of the Square Kilometer Array, the ska. But obviously like now that ain't gonna happen. But it's, you know, it is the next generation there.
- [19:16]
A
This is like bloody, dare I say it, it's like bloody Brexit. When we lost the bloody data headquarters, everything of Copernicus and the whole data facilities for the Europeans like monitoring system that we'd help pay for and construct this whole like Earth science system and the bloody data center and where all the data was gonna be held and all, all that research had to be removed from the UK because of course we left the eu.
- [19:47]
B
Yeah.
- [19:47]
A
It's just this is like again, it's just like, you know, we're slowly just killing it all off.
- [19:52]
B
Yeah.
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A
And then we're surprised where there's, you know, there's no jobs in these areas and you know, there's no research is done here and it all goes elsewhere.
- [20:02]
B
Yep. It boggles the mind. And here's the best hut. Do you know how much George Robank costs to run every year?
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A
Go on.
- [20:11]
B
£2.8 million.
- [20:13]
A
Yep, yep. That means those 3,000 astronomers that use it each year basically get 930 something quid bargain.
- [20:26]
B
Yeah, it is. We spend more on the, the catering for the House of Commons.
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A
Oh, gotcha.
- [20:35]
B
It's more than twice. We spend more than twice that, like on the, on the food for the House of Commons.
- [20:41]
A
2.8 million is in modern, modern government funding. Absolutely buggering.
- [20:48]
B
It's a pittance. For what? It's nothing for, you know, not just the, the science return, the astronomy value, but, you know, the satellite tracking, the debris tracking. You know, this is something like you said, you know, the function of space is changing, especially, you know, near Earth, near. In low Earth orbit. And it's something that we need to be addressing. Georgia bank can keep us notified, it can keep us up to date, it can keep us in the game. And for the sake of £2.8 million.
- [21:17]
A
Yeah. I think we said in the last episode, my intro, you know, like a typical, like an F35 fighter, you know, the RAF and the Royal Navy are buying at the moment very slowly. They're £100 million each. One fighter? Yeah, one fighter plane could fund all these cuts and all these like, things like Jodrebank for years. We're only talking about an absolute pittance in terms of government funding. It is petty and ridiculous and it's headline grabbing and they're trying to say they're making savings here and look, we're getting rid of this old facility and things like that and it's just ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.
- [22:07]
B
I bet you like, 2.8 million is, you know, when they add up all their budgets and everything and they've got all these loose ends, 2.8 million would just be knocking around in that somewhere. Oh, you know, the billions that the government spends every year.
- [22:25]
A
Well, as I said, when you think that 2.8 million chequers, the Prime Minister's country house, it's like a grace and favour place that's just in Buckinghamshire, just outside London. Beautiful old Tudor manor house thing that, you know, you, you get out London to the Prime Minister barely uses the bloody place. It's literally supposed to be like the weekend retreat. Most of them go back to their constituency, you know, their actual house rather than the go, because Chequers is old drafty place. It's used to, you know, entertain and stuff like that. It's a million pounds to run it a year for a building that basically stands empty. Million pounds just for that? Yeah. The refurbishment of the palace of Westminster, this knackered old government building, they reckon it's going to cost £40 billion over the next billion billion yeah, yeah, yeah. Billion. Not million, billion. 40 billion.
- [23:24]
B
Do you know what they can do? They can not replace a couple of pairs of curtains and then they can keep Georgia bank open.
- [23:30]
A
Or they could just build a new government purpose built. Government building, right, that actually functional. Serves a purpose. Do that for a couple of million. Whack. There's your new building. Go on, jog on. Put it in Birmingham or somewhere like that where it's actually central, you know, it actually works and has all the facilities that the MPs actually require. Rather than trying to rebuild this old knackered Victorian, poorly built in the first place building. They even put the stones the wrong way around. That's one of the big problems. They put the grain of the stone goes the wrong way and it's all fracturing because Victorian builders, despite reputation, weren't very good. And you know, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Turn the freaking thing into a museum, whatever, you know.
- [24:16]
B
Yeah. Give it to that.
- [24:18]
A
Yeah. Preserve it out. Give it to the National Trust, whatever, you know, whatever. But Christ, a bicycle. I mean, you know, it's just ridiculous. The. Right. Just the upkeep of the London royal properties. So Buckingham Palace, St. James's Palace. 67 million a year. 67 million a year. So old Chazza and his chums, yeah. Can, you know, have several London properties which they barely use. He doesn't even want to live in Buckingham Palace.
- [24:55]
B
No, he said that. He said he doesn't want to. They want. He wants. Oh, where does it. You want to move to McLaren's house
- [25:04]
A
is where he's staying, I think. Yeah, yeah. But they're refurbishing Buckingham palace anyway. £369 million.
- [25:11]
B
It just makes my blood boil.
- [25:14]
A
Tell me we don't live out in a screwed up country, that we will happily spend 369 million pounds on an old empty palace. That's a friggin ugly B. Not actually going to be used other than the old banquet.
- [25:28]
B
Yeah. And then get rid of a 2.8
- [25:31]
A
million pounds and then not spend 2.8 million pounds on. On one of the finest scientific institutions in the world that actually serves multiple purposes. Why would you not do that? It's just madness. Absolute friggin madness.
- [25:47]
B
And the thing is people, some people are like, oh, well, can't it just be reopened when you know we've got more money? No, no, because the problem is as soon as it closes, you lose things like the operational know how.
- [26:02]
A
Yep.
- [26:03]
B
It's. There's going to be things that are passed down.
- [26:05]
A
These things never yeah, these. These things never, ever come back. No, the. The. A great example in. Within the British government, the military recently, we had two massive landing ships for, you know, raw Marines and all that sort of malarkey, which were quite new. They were actually pretty new. They were only about 10, 15 years old, which for big warships is not that old. And they were kind of basically mothballed with the. Well, they're really expensive run. The crew's quite large, actually. We'll bring them back when, you know, things are better. Do you know where they are now?
- [26:46]
B
Museum somewhere.
- [26:48]
A
Oh. Flogged to the Brazilian Navy. Because they were never going to bring them back.
- [26:53]
B
No.
- [26:54]
A
Never, ever going to bring them back. Because once. Once you've done that, the cost of bringing them, machines and equipment, this will be the same with Jodrell. The cost of bringing it back into service becomes astronomical. It just becomes so big that the easiest thing to do is then just, like, scrap it, flog it, get rid of it, get it off the books.
- [27:15]
B
Because, you know, you lose so much expertise, you. It's the. The maintenance side of it, isn't. No. Not everything is written down. You know, things are sort of taught and people have knowledge that cannot be replaced. You lose partnerships, you lose credibility, you lose trust.
- [27:33]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's. It just. It just. I mean, you. You look at what. What happened to the Arecibo. Never happened to the Arecibo. They kept putting it in mothballs. Eventually.
- [27:44]
B
Eventually, it crashed.
- [27:46]
A
It just felt a bit. Yeah, you literally felt a bit because you can't mothball these things like that. It does not work like that. It's literally not something you can just shove in your garage and get it out next winter. It doesn't work like that.
- [27:59]
B
No.
- [28:00]
A
So this is it. If you close this facility, that's it. It is gone.
- [28:04]
B
Yeah.
- [28:04]
A
And everything that went with it and all the things it does. Gone. Never to reopen. And we'll never build another facility like this.
- [28:12]
B
It will never be rebuilt.
- [28:14]
A
You would never rebuild. You'll never go, oh, we'll build a whole brand new one that's better. That'll never happen.
- [28:19]
B
Yeah.
- [28:20]
A
Because these. That's never how it works.
- [28:23]
B
No. And especially, like, there's. The thing is with radio astronomy, like, the dish is the dish. It's. It's the instrument suit that always needs upgrading. But once you've got your dish, it's just a case of, you know, it's
- [28:35]
A
a big metal dish.
- [28:36]
B
Yeah.
- [28:36]
A
It's great.
- [28:37]
B
Like, I mean, doesn't matter if it's got some dings and holes in it. Because it's radio astronomy.
- [28:43]
A
Yeah, exactly. You just maintain it. Yeah, you maintain it. Stop it falling over. But actually it's all the instruments and all the equipment that you. You put on it. But the thing is, as soon as you stop servicing it and things that. Those, Those, you know, those actuators that, you know, came from those two battleships, they won't work anymore. You know, they. They need constant maintenance, constant care that, you know, these. These things. Those things were actually built the first World War.
- [29:08]
B
No, it all starts seizing up.
- [29:10]
A
So it's ridiculous. The whole thing is just. It's just you're never gonna get that back. And then it just, you know, other than. It's like scientific impact, space debris impact, you know, defense impact, its academic impact, and as you say, this sort of expertise and sort of the. The passing on of, like, institutional knowledge and everything that goes with this, that has much, much wider. The fact that it's, you know, the headquarters for the Square Kilometer Array, the fact that it's the hub of Merlin E. Merlin. It also has these other impacts.
- [29:51]
B
Yeah. George Orban gets 150,000 visitors a year.
- [29:56]
A
Yeah.
- [29:57]
B
21,000 of which school kids.
- [30:01]
A
Yeah.
- [30:01]
B
And you can't tell me that they're gonna find an old radio telescope what used to work just as inspiring as one that they know that last night was looking at a giant black hole in a galaxy far, far away.
- [30:16]
A
Yeah.
- [30:16]
B
You. You cannot tell me that.
- [30:19]
A
No, it's. It's. I can guarantee you if they shut it, it would have to be dismantled probably not long afterwards on safety grounds, because it would probably fall over. Because if you just stopped and everyone went home and no one was servicing it, that thing would decay really quickly. You'd have another Arecibo in your hands, and they wouldn't allow that. They'd have to just come in and demolish it.
- [30:46]
B
Yeah. And then what? Your visitors come in to look at then.
- [30:51]
A
And if I'm, you know, to labor the point, you know, I said about. In the metaphors. Right. Themselves. Imagine the image, you know, the. The Jodrell bank, the Lovell Telescope being dismantled.
- [31:04]
B
Oh, God.
- [31:05]
A
I mean, you know, what a. What a metaphor for modern Britain.
- [31:08]
B
Yeah.
- [31:10]
A
The last one. Last one out. Turn the lights off. Like, what's the point? What's the bloody point? Because nothing. Everything, you know, this has been the path this country has been on for at least the. This sort of stupid managed decline because of ridiculous political decisions and a class of leaders and class of politicians who are inept and not brave Enough to actually stand up for ideas. Good ideas.
- [31:46]
B
That's a good point. To leave it and move on to another depressing story.
- [31:51]
A
Oh, God.
- [31:54]
B
Which is somewhat linked because, you know, we know that George Wallbank tracks satellites in space.
- [31:59]
A
It tracks satellites. Is it useful for tracking satellites and space debris? Because, you know, that would be really useful right now.
- [32:06]
B
Right. Especially if. If the predictions of the European Southern Observatory come true. So this is a bit of research led by Olivier Heino, and this is all about looking at the future of our skies, because as we know, every single year, more and more satellites are being launched. And it's got quite a dramatic title, I think this, this bit of research, it's called beyond the Limit. One million satellites and mirror in space pose grave threat to the night sky. And this is something I think we've. We've talked about before, like the number of satellites that we see, even as casual observers in, you know.
- [32:47]
A
Yep.
- [32:48]
B
I've said before, when me and dad watch the Perseids, we, you know, always have a competition. And our competition used to be who sees the most Perseids. Now our competition is what do we see more of? Satellites or Perseids?
- [33:01]
A
Yeah, yeah, completely. You know, you'll see more satellites.
- [33:03]
B
Yeah. Oh, we do.
- [33:04]
A
And it's very depressing and down to. I've said this before, something that when I was a kid back in the 80s, you would be, like, unbelievably excited to have seen a satellite. In an evening's observation, you'd be out there and you see like, one. Oh, my God, it's a spaceship. That's amazing. I've seen a satellite. In the 90s, you'd see a couple more, but it'd still be quite exciting to be like, oh, wow, there's a couple of. Couple of satellites in. By the beginning of century, you could pretty much guarantee you would see a satellite.
- [33:37]
B
I always liked the Iridium flares.
- [33:40]
A
Yeah. And you would see some bright ones. And of course, the International Space Station was there. So you'd be like, okay, yeah, some satellites. That's cool. By the 2010s, you were seeing, you know, at least one or two an hour now. Holy crap. There's like, literally you can just look in any direction.
- [33:59]
C
Yeah.
- [34:00]
A
You'll say, find one.
- [34:01]
B
Yeah.
- [34:02]
A
You literally just look for and say, like, oh, it's this one. There's one, there's. There's three, there's. There's a whole bunch over there. You literally can't look anywhere and not see a satellite.
- [34:10]
B
It's like, now, when you like do your sky guide at Astral Camp. You're like, you go in, around and they just hear you go, oh, satellite. And then like you'll speak for another couple of minutes and then it's like, oh, satellite.
- [34:22]
A
Yeah, yeah, completely. And, and I'm only pointing out the bright ones because you can see loads more.
- [34:26]
B
Yeah.
- [34:27]
A
Literally there are so many.
- [34:29]
B
Yeah. And yeah, yeah, just, you know, I think we've, we've known in the community that the number of satellites is a growing problem. Right. But we now have some kind of solid numbers and pretty robust research to back it up, and it is concerning. So for a little bit of context, this is where we are in terms of satellite numbers. As of the end of June, this is the last time the numbers were updated. So of the 26,900 satellites that have been launched, there's about 18,300 still in space and about 16,100 of those are working, with over half of those being starlinks. We track about 46,200 things in space. So that is satellites and trackable space debris boosters.
- [35:28]
A
Yeah, it's a rocket.
- [35:30]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [35:31]
A
So astronauts, there's a spacesuit, there's a toolbox.
- [35:36]
B
Yeah, there's all sorts of stuff up there. So this is, so we're talking about how now at 18, 300 satellites in space, that it doesn't surprise us to see a satellite when we step outside. Right. And that's at 18,000. So current worldwide plans for satellite launches amount to 1.7 million. 1.7 million.
- [36:12]
A
How, how do you even.
- [36:13]
B
That's the current plan. Right. So now this, this European Southern Observatory study has, has revealed that actually the maximum that we can have and still be able to use the night sky for astronomy, ground based astronomy, is a hundred thousand satellites that are fainter than naked eye visibility. If we have more than a hundred thousand that we cannot see with the naked eye. So this is, you know, ruling out the ones which are visible with the naked eye. The night sky is ruined.
- [36:50]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [36:52]
B
Now SpaceX alone, they want 1 million for a space based data center. And the simulations that have been conducted in this study show that for a good proportion of the night, hundreds or thousands of satellites would be visible in the night sky, which if you think about it, is on par with the number of stars that you can see with the naked eye.
- [37:17]
A
You can only see like 4,000 stars.
- [37:19]
B
Yes. So imagine you're under a dark sky site now, you haven't got your light pollution from nearby cities and you look up and half the stars that you see are not stars. They are satellites dancing about. And this is what this study is saying.
- [37:40]
A
Yeah.
- [37:40]
B
That if SpaceX puts up its 1 million satellites that the stars will dance, we, we will lose the constellations because half the sky will just be moving. Yeah, go on.
- [37:54]
A
It's just, it's just ridiculous. You can't even imagine.
- [37:58]
B
No, I can't imagine that.
- [38:00]
A
I can't remember what it's going to look like. And this is, this is on par with, you know, sort of bulldozing a national park.
- [38:09]
B
Yeah, I agree. Because I feel like it's one of the last natural resources we have that we have not yet completely destroyed. Yeah, but we're on the path to. Because the night sky, this is how the thing is, our argument is not no satellites because yes, we should be using, you know, space for communication and the Internet and TV and you know, Earth based observations, you know, looking back at our planet. We're not saying as astronomers, none of that's allowed, but do it in a way that doesn't destroy the night sky.
- [38:43]
A
It's like lots of things. I mean like we need quarries, we need mines, you know, we need materials. But you have to, you have to cite them carefully and you have to have, you know, massive considerations for the environment and people that live there. And. Yeah, you know, which is why awful companies like those that belong to Muscular, you know, quite happily just go and screw over some country in South America, you know, and not worry about the environment and not worry about the kind of what they're doing when they're extracting these resources. And they're just doing the same thing to the night sky.
- [39:19]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [39:20]
A
Exactly the same thing.
- [39:23]
B
Reflect Orbital is frankly a terrifying company because they want to put up these enormous mirror like satellites, Right. To provide sunlight at night. So what they want to do is beam reflect and like beam sunlight back down to Earth at night time so you can like generate power and things like that. Right. And the beams that they want to beam back span 5km. So imagine it, it just like you know, lighting up your, your whole town, right? They want to launch 50,000 of these gigantic satellites by 2035.
- [40:09]
A
This is the sort of thing that, it sounds like something you would, you would have, like Ian Fleming would have written for a James Bond bad guy.
- [40:18]
B
Right, right. You know, beam the sunlight back.
- [40:25]
A
This is actually evil, right, I'm sorry. Reflect Orbital. You're evil and you're all insane.
- [40:34]
B
And listen, this is right. If the satellite is pointing at you so you're in the beam it will appear in the sky four times brighter than the full moon.
- [40:46]
A
Jesus.
- [40:47]
B
Alright, Otherwise if they're not under the beam, as bright as Venus, that's how bright these satellites are gonna be.
- [40:58]
A
50,000 of them.
- [40:59]
B
50,000 of them, that's all we see? Yeah, it's all we would see. We wouldn't see anything else. Okay. Like it's just, that's all it would be. It would just be a sky reflect orbital. So the study goes on to, you know, continue to simulate the positions and motions and the brightness of these, these planned constellations. If SpaceX launches all of the satellites it wants to launch, then once you're sort of a couple of hours into the night and you're observing with a groundbreaking telescope like the vlt, the Very Large Telescope, they reckon that every image will have dozens of trails and you'll lose over a quarter of every image. It just can't be used for science because there's too many trails. And remember, this is if the satellites are not naked eye visible. So if they're brighter than that, you're going to lose even more data. Like if they are brighter, the VSC RUBIN will have most of its images just completely unusable. And the VRC Rubin, one of its mission goals is to find dangerous near Earth asteroids. And it does that by playing spot the difference with its images. So it needs images of the same patch of sky taken over time so that it can see what moves. And if you're binning the data all the time, you, it literally can't do what it's supposed to be doing. So this is, you know, for the safety of the planet as well. It's not just pie in the sky science as it were. This is actively trying to protect our planet. There's one more bad bit.
- [42:33]
A
Yeah, There is nothing about this that is remotely good.
- [42:38]
B
Yeah, there's one more bad bit. And then, and then I will come on to the, the kind of, some, some hope if all of the reflect Orbital satellites launch. Right. Because the thing is like it's not just these beams of light that Reflect Orbital will be sending back, it's the general brightness of the night sky will increase because of scattered light off these satellites. The sky, the general background sky will be four times brighter. It's like full moon versus New moon.
- [43:11]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [43:12]
B
There's a whole general sky background will be brighter and you just won't be able to see things.
- [43:17]
A
No, no, no, no. We literally lose the night sky.
- [43:20]
B
Yeah. And the night sky is not just for us. Right. It's it will mess around with the biological clocks of creatures and ecosystems and the navigation of certain creatures, migrations.
- [43:32]
A
I mean, we're already in a mass die off of, you know, mass extinction event anyway. So it, we might as well just, you know, finish the job, you know. Yeah, you know, the human humanity is already creating the next mass extinction. You know, the number of species have gone, gone extinct in the last hundred years is incredible. And it's just accelerating. Yeah, there's species that have gone extinct that we didn't know existed. And it was. You might as well just finish the job.
- [44:06]
B
So we do have some hope, right? Revolution, I think that will be part of it.
- [44:14]
A
But the end of capitalism.
- [44:16]
B
If the satellites are kept no brighter than magnitude 7, we only have hundred thousand of them, then the image losses as a result of satellite trails and such like are comparable with the images that are lost due to technical issues anyway. So if we can convince the companies to keep it to 100,000, which surely is enough, right, Surely then there is hope that everyone can make use of the night sky so the astronomers can still see, we can still have our Internet and our TV and our communications and our Earth monitoring and all of these and everyone wins. So there is a solution to move forward that, you know, where everyone can win. It's just whether that that path will be taken.
- [45:12]
A
Have you met humanity and have you met billionaires?
- [45:16]
B
I know, but I have to end on a, on a hopeful note.
- [45:19]
A
You're good on a positive, you got to end on a positive.
- [45:21]
B
I have to end on a positive. So the maths shows that there is an option that works. It's just convincing the right people that that is the path to be taken. Shall I move on to an actual happy story?
- [45:46]
A
Go on then.
- [45:47]
B
Let's, let's have. We're done now with the sad news.
- [45:50]
A
Lighten the mood.
- [45:51]
B
Let's lighten the mood, right?
- [45:53]
A
Not lighten the sky.
- [45:54]
B
Let's lighten the mood because we found Earth 2.0. Except we haven't.
- [46:03]
A
We never have.
- [46:04]
B
We never have. It is this. Oh, I love this headline. It comes up every few months. We get, oh, we found Earth 2.0 and it never is Earth 2.0. It is not Earth 2.0. Right. But the thing is, what has been done is extremely cool in its own right. And it does not need this extra label of no, we've said this before.
- [46:27]
A
Doesn't need that.
- [46:28]
B
Doesn't need it, doesn't need that. So what has actually happened? Astronomers led by Dr. Colin Cherubim, then of Harvard University when he was doing this work as a grad student. So they have discovered, like, concrete evidence of an atmosphere around a rocky planet in the habitable zone of its host star.
- [46:50]
A
Cool.
- [46:51]
B
That is enormous. We have never done this. And the way it was done, I think, is actually really quite cool.
- [46:58]
A
Very cool.
- [46:59]
B
Because it was like theory and modeling predicted how it could be detected. And then they thought, all right, then, let's see if we can find it. And they found it.
- [47:09]
A
You see, that's good science.
- [47:10]
B
It's good science, isn't it?
- [47:13]
A
If you predict first.
- [47:15]
B
Yeah.
- [47:15]
A
Do you do the predicting and you. You model it and you come up with this idea and then you go looking and you find like, that's good science. That's good.
- [47:25]
B
It is, isn't it? Right, yeah. So the planet that we're talking about has a very exciting name, obviously, of LHS 1140B. And it is 48 light years away in the constellation of Ceta. It's a sea monster not very far from Deneb Katos. So, you know, if you want to go and have a look at the patch of sky that it's in, not too far from Deneb Katos, it is a red dwarf star, and the planet itself orbits. It takes about 25 days to complete an orbit. But that is the habitable zone for the red dwarf star because it is so much smaller and cooler than our star. That habitable zone where liquid water could exist, it shrinks inwards, right?
- [48:10]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:11]
B
And so what, what cherubim and the astronomers is. Is. So he, he was working on this model to try and figure out if he could find a way to, you know, predict whether certain planets may have atmospheres or not. And what the model indicated is that actually certain planets in their. In their early evolution will gather these enormous envelopes of hydrogen and helium, and then over time, they lose them. The hydrogen goes first because it's a lighter molecule, and then the helium starts disappearing then as well. And so this planet was one of the ones that the prediction says, well, actually, this planet may well have some noticeable helium escaping, which would then, if you can detect this helium escape, that indicates that it does have an atmosphere of some sort. Now this, you know, this detection, we don't know at the minute what the actual constituents are of this planet. Atmosphere. It's just evidence that there is an atmosphere. So we don't know, is it just the remnant helium? Are there heavier elements? Like we have oxygen and nitrogen and carbon dioxide and so on? Are those heavier elements there? We do not know. But the Prediction was have a look at this planet, because if it's got an atmosphere, you'll notice helium escaping from it. So it was, they use it, the Magellan telescope in Chile. Here's one for you. The Warm Infrared Shell Spectrograph winner.
- [49:52]
A
Wine Red.
- [49:53]
B
Wine red.
- [49:54]
A
Wine red.
- [49:54]
B
Wine red.
- [49:55]
A
Wine Red what?
- [49:57]
B
An acronym that we don't even know how to pronounce it right.
- [49:59]
C
See?
- [50:00]
A
Bloody acronyms. Just give it a nice name. Just give it a good name. God's sake, people.
- [50:06]
B
And they use a rare alignment of where there's two planets in the system and both of them were transiting. And so they sort of comparing the two helped confirm the existence of the, of the helium escaping, because it wasn't just normal atomic helium, it was like excited helium atoms that were showing absorption lines, which is what the signal that they were looking for.
- [50:32]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [50:33]
B
But they did find this signal of helium and the estimates are that this planet is losing 220 tons of helium every second.
- [50:43]
A
Wow.
- [50:44]
B
Laura. Helium disappearing.
- [50:45]
A
Laura Lora. Helium.
- [50:46]
B
And then what I think is quite fun is then the high energy radiation from the star like drags out this helium vapor and it's like a long tail then behind the planet. So it's like, like a comet planet.
- [50:59]
A
Like a sort of helium comet.
- [51:01]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [51:03]
A
Cool.
- [51:03]
B
So the star is 3 billion years old, so over 3 billion years old. And so that means that the planet is ish 3 billion years old. So they reckon that it's like in its final stages of losing this primordial hydrogen and helium. So we're like at the tail end of it. Wow. But it's very exciting because it shows that not only is this, this predicts are correct, so it can be applied to other worlds, but we can actually detect this escaping helium. And now they want to go back and look at the planet with something like JWST to see, see if they could then work out what the atmosphere is actually made of. Are there signals of water or not? Are there any other kind of interesting signals? So, and you know, this is, it's a small rocky world, so it's, it's not Earth sized, it's a bit bigger than Earth. But it's really exciting that we've actually proved that there is an atmosphere around a rocky planet.
- [51:58]
A
Very cool. That is a great story.
- [52:00]
B
It is a good story. We, you know, we've not detected this before and it's, it's, you know, this is how it begins. This is how we start digging into those atmospheres.
- [52:07]
A
Very cool, Very cool.
- [52:09]
B
Well, last story A positive one, I hope.
- [52:13]
A
Yes, we're heading over to the shoulder of Orion to look at everyone's favorite temperamental red super giant. Betelgaze.
- [52:23]
B
Beetlejuice. Don't say it again.
- [52:25]
A
Betelguz is the old, the old one eyed German hater used to say. Now we all know that Betelgeuse loves to keep us on our toes with its fluctuating brightness. Remember those days in Covid? We were like, oh, it's gonna go, it's gonna go, it's gonna go, it's gonna go.
- [52:42]
B
And I remember me just going, nah, it's dust.
- [52:44]
A
This. Dust.
- [52:45]
B
Dust. And what was that?
- [52:48]
A
While we Understand its main 400 day pulse is driven by the star's internal convection, we know that there is a secondary 5.9 year dimming cycle that's been baffling astronomers for over a century. Well, the mystery has been finally solved. Turns out the old giant isn't alone. We thought this. Beetle, buddy, we talked about this a few months ago. Well, it's confirmed. Astronomers are confirmed that Betelgeuse actually has a hidden companion star which has been named SWAT Doubt. I've been debating how this is said.
- [53:23]
B
Don't ask me. I'm useless.
- [53:31]
A
I've been trying all day. I've been thinking about how. Siwara. Siwara. Let's go with Siwara. That sounds cool.
- [53:39]
B
Yeah.
- [53:40]
A
Anyway, its tight orbit and the gravitational target exerts on the supergiant swollen outer layers perfectly explain that mysterious near six year cycle. Look at that. I know we thought this, this is what we talked about a couple months ago. We just needed that last bit of evidence. So spotting this companion was an absolute nightmare. Observationally, imagine trying to spot a glowworm sitting next to a lighthouse.
- [54:04]
B
Oh, can I tell you my favorite little poem about a glowworm?
- [54:08]
A
Oh, go on. I know this one. It's funny. Go on.
- [54:10]
B
I wish I were a glowworm.
- [54:12]
A
Yeah.
- [54:13]
B
Because I wish I were.
- [54:19]
A
How could you be.
- [54:20]
B
Because how can you be unhappy? How can you be unhappy when the sun shines out your bum?
- [54:28]
A
Oh, well, I love it. This was an example. This was so put out this example when they were talking about this saying like, you know, try and imagine a glow worm sitting next to a lighthouse. And I mean right next to the lighthouse, like, by the way. So beta juice is a staggering 1 million times big brighter than this object. I know, but using the very large telescope down in that there Chile.
- [54:50]
B
Oh, wait, the one that the 1 million satellites are going to render in the sun.
- [54:53]
A
I say, yeah, exactly, precisely and perfectly timing. The observation for a window when the stars were at their furthest separation, European team managed to digitally strip away the overwhelming glare and grab the sharpest direct image of Siwara to date.
- [55:11]
B
Amazing.
- [55:12]
A
Okay. And the physical evidence is incredible. If you remember earlier in the year, data from Hubble and some ground based observatories show this dense trail of gas moving through Betelgeuse's extended outer atmosphere. I think we talked about this a little while ago. We now know that this was the physical wake left behind by Siwara.
- [55:32]
B
Wow.
- [55:33]
A
Quite literally plowing through the gas like a speedboat cutting through a lake.
- [55:38]
B
That's some cool science, isn't it?
- [55:40]
A
That's some cool right there, isn't it? That's some cool right there. As for Sapphire itself, it's a hot young star packing about one and a half times the mass of our sun. But things aren't looking great in the long term because it's orbiting perilously close. The immense tidal forces from Betelgeuse are nearly going to cause it to spiral inward. Stromers reckon in about 10,000 years, Suwara will meet its demise and be swallowed completely by the red giant.
- [56:09]
B
10,000 years. Not long, is it?
- [56:11]
A
Not long for stars. No. Brilliant bit detective work to find, especially a star that's young and actually only one and a half times as fast as sun. That's a star that's going to last, you know, a good. Not, not much less than the sun in terms of time, actually.
- [56:26]
B
Yeah.
- [56:27]
A
So brilliant bit detective work and a rather doomed future for Beatrice's little companion, unfortunately. But it's there.
- [56:33]
B
Yeah.
- [56:33]
A
We talked about a little while ago and they, you know, we were waiting for these other observations and it's come through.
- [56:38]
B
And a beautiful example of observatories working together, complementing each other.
- [56:44]
A
Completely brilliant. Completely. It's all very cool.
- [56:47]
B
Yeah.
- [57:00]
A
Okay. Let's face it, August 2026 is shaping up to be an absolute blockbuster month for UK stargazers.
- [57:07]
B
So good enough.
- [57:08]
A
I know, it's just amazing. And after all our Jodrell venting, time for some joy and whimsy. So the undeniable headline event that we talked about in our last chatty MC chat face episode is the spectacular partial solar eclipse happening on the evening of August 12th. So this is going to be the best solar eclipse visible from British soil since 1999. So for the young, young amongst you,
- [57:34]
B
you know, I, I remember that. I remember being in the garden. I didn't see it as total because I was in Barry. It was a strong. You probably wouldn't see.
- [57:41]
A
It was cloudy. It was pretty much clouded out. I remember watching it and it was all pretty much clouded out.
- [57:46]
B
No, we definitely were looking with solar eclipse I glasses. Because I remember. I mean, I'm not saying I saw the whole thing. I'm just there's like a break in the cloud or something.
- [57:55]
A
You were lucky because it was, it was. It was a pretty cloudy day in the UK that day. Because I remember just. It was inevitable.
- [58:01]
B
We were only allowed, for some reason the parents had decided we were only allowed to look at the sun through the solar eclipse glasses for 10 seconds at a time. And I just remember counting and like holding the glasses. So I glimpsed it at some point.
- [58:18]
A
Yeah. My partner at the time went to France and saw the whole thing.
- [58:23]
B
Hence partner at the time.
- [58:25]
A
Hence partner at the time. They shall never be spoken of again. Right, anyway, so starting around 6:17. Absolutely depends where you are. But our night, sort of like an average time about 06:17 BST in the UK in the PM, Moon will take massive bite out of the sun, reaching maximum about 7:13pm, give or take between 90 and 96% coverage, depending on kind of how far west and south you are before ending just after 8pm and of course that's not long before actual sunset anyway. So you're gonna get this sort of double, double darkness and we'll have this sort of. It'll get quite dark and then the sun will come back and then it will go again.
- [59:18]
B
Yeah.
- [59:18]
A
So it's kind of, kind of weird. The birds will be all messed up.
- [59:21]
B
Yeah.
- [59:22]
A
You absolutely must use certified eclipse glasses. We talked about this in our thing. Or proper pinhole projection method view it. Safely talked about all this. We absolutely go back to our last episode.
- [59:34]
B
Yeah. And we go into it in great detail. But yeah, please don't do the wildest glasses, the stacked sunglasses. Stay safe. Don't look at the sun with the naked eye. Use your proper solar equipment.
- [59:47]
A
Yeah.
- [59:48]
B
And then, you know, if you haven't had enough astronomy with a near total solar eclipse, right the very same night, we have the absolute peak of Percy's meteor shower. And because of that eclipse, it means that we are at New moon. So it is just delightful. It's an absolute treat because the peak night, so the 12th going into the 13th, you know, there's no moon around. So yeah, over 100 shooting stars an hour, maybe up to 150 if you are under truly dark skies. And you know, it's ideal conditions. That is not the reality that most of us live with. Most of Us have got some light pollution. But even with some light pollution, when every few minutes, say 30 an hour, the Perseids are reliable. They are prolific. They are such a good meteor shower.
- [60:41]
A
They are of course that zenithal hourly rate thing is if the whole meteor shower happened at zenith, as if the sky was like zenith at the perfect point with perfect conditions, that's how many you would see. That's what we mean by zhr. It's, it's never actually really achieved even in some of the darkest skies you can possibly get to. Because of course the whole sky isn't like the zenith. No, it's not, it's not like that. But that gives you, it's a kind of indication of actually how many there are. Probably actually are. But of course dust, light pollution, all those sorts of things means that actually, yeah, 30 to 50 is probably a
- [61:22]
B
good 30 to 50 years. One every couple of minutes to one every minute on average. You know, they come in fits and bursts. Yes. But it's seriously good. So you know, don't put away your deck chair, keep it out. Grab a blanket.
- [61:38]
A
Absolutely.
- [61:39]
B
Look towards the northeast where Perseus is rising and then just let your eyes kind of wander around the sky in that general direction like halfway up from the horizon. Wander. Don't look at Perseus, but, but like look in the area around Perseus. Look everywhere up, down, left, right. And enjoy it. It's one of nature's greatest firework displays.
- [62:00]
A
Absolutely. And just, yeah, it's just after midnight is probably, probably your best.
- [62:06]
B
Yeah. Because that's when the night side of Earth is plowing straight through the clouds of debris. So that's where the rates are highest. But do you know what, if you can't stay up till midnight, then don't.
- [62:18]
A
Yeah, don't. But if you are pulling an all nighter.
- [62:22]
B
Oh, is there more after your eclipse,
- [62:25]
A
the night gets better.
- [62:26]
B
The night gets better.
- [62:29]
A
Because if you are pulling an all nighter for those Perseid meteors around the 12th, you'll be perfectly positioned for stunning predawn planetary parade, dare I say it, mid August sky. We have a magnificent alignment of six planets strung across the heavens.
- [62:44]
C
No.
- [62:45]
A
So you've got Jupiter, Mars and Saturn will be blazing away, easily visible to the naked eye. They already are offering fantastic targets if you have a telescope handy. Mercury will be playing its usual game of hide and seek on the very low pre dawn horizon. But it will be there. And of course Urus, Neptune will also be right there ready for your telescope to find. So you could oh, my goodness. Dive into.
- [63:10]
B
And then. And then a meteor shower and then a planet parade.
- [63:15]
A
And then you could just sit there and watch the planets, like, popping up one, one at a time above the horizon. What more could you want?
- [63:24]
B
Book it off.
- [63:24]
A
Yeah, exactly. I said, frankly, book the 13th off work. Pull a sickie. Yeah, because the next day, the next day you're gonna be knackered. You're gonna. You're gonna be.
- [63:34]
B
By order of awesome astronomy, Thou shalt Not work. August 13th.
- [63:39]
A
Yeah, exactly, exactly. We declare it a bank holiday.
- [63:42]
B
Yep. It is a bank holiday for astronomers.
- [63:44]
A
Officially. It's officially a bank holiday. We've called it, We've called it. It's an astronomy bank holiday. Everyone pull a sickie that day. Because you'll have been up seeing the eclipse, then you'll have been up seeing the Perseids, which would be brilliant. And then you'll have watched all the planets popping up right to the dawn. You'll see the sun come up again. You'll be like, oh, hello, sun. I saw you earlier with the moon in front of you. Look at that. And now you're back and then, and then you can go to bed.
- [64:08]
B
Yeah.
- [64:10]
A
I mean, what more could you want?
- [64:12]
B
Oh, what more could you want? Well, how about weather, type of eclipse?
- [64:16]
A
Well, exactly, exactly. Go on, tell them, tell them.
- [64:19]
B
Oh, because, you know, the thing is with solar eclipses, very often we have a solar eclipse and then we have a lunar eclipse a couple of weeks later. You know, they sort of go in hand in hand, hand. But it's not always the same place on Earth that gets to see them. But we have actually got. It's visible for once from the uk because I feel like we haven't had a decent lunar eclipse in a long time. From the UK, early morning, August 28, we've got a really deep partial, so it's not quite a total lunar eclipse by a few percent, but it's almost a total lunar eclipse. So it's.
- [64:56]
A
It actually kind of mirrors the solar eclipse.
- [64:59]
B
Yes, it does actually.
- [65:00]
A
A few days earlier.
- [65:01]
B
Yeah, it does. So kicks off at 3:33am British Summer Time, maximum at 12 minutes past 5 in the morning. And about 93% of the lunar disc will be sort of in Earth's shadow. So you will notice that sort of reddy color to the moon. You will notice that. So even though it is not quite a total lunar eclipse, you will get that, that lovely blood red color, which is always. I love thinking about this. It's. NASA put it really eloquently once. How that blood red color is like every single sunset and sunrise on the Earth being projected onto the moon.
- [65:46]
A
Yes.
- [65:46]
B
And I think it's just such a beautiful way to think about it.
- [65:48]
A
That is a lovely way, isn't it?
- [65:50]
B
Yeah. There is a slight catch that the moon is going to be like really low in the sky.
- [65:57]
A
Just like the solar eclipse.
- [65:58]
B
Like the solar eclipse, basically. Yeah.
- [66:02]
A
They're like the yin and yang of eclipses going on here. They're just the same thing.
- [66:07]
C
Just.
- [66:08]
B
Yeah.
- [66:09]
A
Other way around.
- [66:10]
B
But it's fine because, you know, wherever you went for the eclipse, go for the lunar eclipse.
- [66:16]
A
Yeah. And leave it, leave your chair there and just go back to it a couple of weeks later, you'll be fine.
- [66:20]
B
No, no, but no one would have nicked it because, you know, it's an astronomy chair and it's illegal.
- [66:25]
A
Yeah, exactly. And finally, of course, while the solar system is stealing the spotlight clearly this, this month, don't forget to look straight up on those warm, dark August night to explore Summer Triangle. Formed by the brilliant stars Vega de Altair, this patch of sky is an absolute treasure trove for deep sky hunters. Point a small telescope between the bottom two stars of Lyra near Vega and spot the ghostly smoke ring of the Rigged Nebula, also known as M57. Or scan over towards the constellation of Vulpacula near Cygnus to find the bright apple core or hourglass shape of the Dumbbell Nebula M27, which looks great even in binoculars. It's huge.
- [67:08]
B
It's always massive, planetary. I always forget how big it is.
- [67:13]
A
I've looked at it for decades and it still surprises me.
- [67:16]
B
I love it.
- [67:17]
A
Oh, it's really massive.
- [67:18]
B
It is genuinely one of my favorite objects. And I return to it time after
- [67:22]
A
time and it's right in that starfield, that massive, you know, Milky Way starfield. It's beautiful. And if you're blessed with exceptionally dark skies, you might even trace the sprawling glow of the North American Nebula NGC 7000, right next to Deneb Wide Field Telescope. Binoculars will reveal its continent like shape, rounding off what promised to be an unforgettable month of observing. Frankly, the air is an absolute playground. And perhaps that's a suggestion that we should do a summer triangle special.
- [67:50]
B
We could do that next time actually for September because it'll still be just.
- [67:54]
A
Just go through. Yeah, just go through the whole sort of all the objects, all the things. I think that might be quite a good little guide. Guide to the Summer Triangle. Right. We're gonna take a little break from the Moon guide this month. Just because we've done so much this this episode and it's going on and then we've we know lunar eclipse. We'll be back with the last, last real part of the the lunar lunar guide and we'll sum up the whole thing next time.
- [68:18]
B
Well, next verse of the month episode.
- [68:20]
A
Next, next verse. Exactly. The moon starts just past full and is last quarter on the 5th, it's new on the 12th, it's first quarter again on the 20th and it's back to full on the 27th of August. All that remains to wish you clear skies and happy Hunter well, the bottom line is that we now live in a country where £95 million will be spent on astrology apps this year, which is at least 10 million more than will be spent on astronomy apps. Almost a quarter of adults believe little green men have visited Earth and a third of UK adults deny climate change science or think it's exaggerated. The Lovell telescope costs 2.8 million pounds a year to run, so in a country where a third of the adults have managed to get through the education system as science illiterates, we'll spend 34 times more on astrology than funding one of the world's best radio telescopes. Truly an idiocracy to think we invented radar, sonar and the programmable computer and use them to defeat astrology and occult obsessed racist genocidal maniacs. What was the bloody point? I would say write to your mp, but they're probably too busy looking at tarot cards trying to do deport refugees or gambling on crypto to give a shit.
- [69:45]
B
Stay in touch Etc Email or in the spirit of this new age, perhaps try a Ouija board or employ a charlatan medium to speak to the spirit world. The show at AwesomeAstronomy.com is best, but oh well, sod it. May as well just use stone tape theory and lob a brick.
- [70:02]
A
So until our mid month waffle fest, it's goodbye from Cydonia Base.
- [70:08]
B
Beep. What was that? That was my little daughter Sputnik at the end just beeping away and Georgia bank going I see you.
- [70:26]
C
Awesome Astronomy is produced by Ralph Paul, Jen, John Damian and Dustin and is free to use with attribution. Theme music by Star Salzman with stinger variation by Rin Jorgensen. We promote general science, astronomy, space exploration and rational thinking with more resources on our website@awesomeastronomy.com if you want us to read your thoughts and comments out on the show, send us your views, opinions, critiques or questions to the show at Awesomeastronomy Com. Tweet us at awesome Astropod or give the awesome Astronomy Facebook page a like and leave your comments there. Thanks for listening. From Cydonia Base Head of Transmission.