Ozone Hole II Mega-Constellation Bogaloo

Summary

AWESOME ASTRONOMY

Episode 168: Ozone Hole II Mega-Constellation Bogaloo

Released: February 15, 2026
Hosts: Paul & Dr. Jeni

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Episode Overview

In this "chatty" edition, Paul and Jeni take a lively, insightful and at times hilarious journey through contemporary astronomy topics. They begin with catching up after a team meet-up and look ahead to AstroCamp, then transition into a deep dive on ozone depletion—including its history and a worrying new link to mega-constellations of satellites. The hosts unpack new research, interweave personal anecdotes, and tackle the big themes of scientific responsibility. Lighter segments include a fresh discovery about Jupiter’s size and listener questions on Earth’s magnetic flip and aurora. There’s camaraderie, wit, and a heartfelt invitation for audience participation.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. AstroCamp Updates, Ice Hockey & Pizza: The Chatty Catch-Up

[00:00–09:00]

• The team recounts a recent in-person meet in London with the AstroCamp podcast crew, discussing plans and enjoying pub fare, pizza and an ill-fated ice hockey match (“He tore his groin in the first four minutes.” – Paul, 04:43).
• Excitement builds for the upcoming AstroCamp (April 18–21, 2026), with ticket sales opening Feb 21st and promising guest speakers.
  • Jeni hints at her interactive Drake Equation session and a presentation on the Herschel Space Telescope’s quirky origin (“...the telescope emerged from a scribble on a scrap piece of paper in Venice.” – Jeni, 08:32).
• Extended banter about unrelenting UK rain and local quirks.

Memorable Quote:
“Universities out there that want to give us honorary degrees in science communication…” – Paul, [02:19]

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2. Weather Woes and British Resilience

[09:00–14:57]

• The UK’s persistently miserable weather becomes material for local humor and nostalgia about rain-soaked school days in Wales.
• Stories of PE teachers, fire alarms, and students running into the rain—a uniquely British take on endurance through grey skies.

Memorable Quote:
“It’s literally rained every single day since New Year.” – Paul, [10:16]

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3. Ozone Layer Deep Dive: From Historical Crisis to New Warnings

[15:08–27:38]

A. The Ozone Saga

[15:08–24:54]

• Jeni shares her recent radio segment about the ozone hole, re-explaining its importance, formation, and why it’s a bio-signature of life.
  • Ozone (O₃) absorbs deadly ultraviolet light; without it, “life on Earth would not be possible.” – Jeni, [17:05]
  • History of discovery: monitored since the 1950s over Antarctica for stability; CFCs theorized as a threat in 1974, confirmed by 1985.
  • Mechanism breakdown: UV releases chlorine from CFCs; one Cl atom can destroy thousands of ozone molecules, especially at Antarctic spring when ice crystals catalyze the process.
  • The “hole” is not permanent; it appears annually in spring, peaking at up to seven times Europe’s size.

Notable Fact:
“At its largest extent...the hole in the ozone was seven times the size of Europe.” – Jeni, [21:06]

B. The Policy Win – And Its Limits

• The “hole in the ozone” is touted as science’s greatest policy success; swift international action through the Montreal Protocol banned CFCs, setting a course to recover by the 2050s.
• Margaret Thatcher’s scientific background cited as a factor in quick UK response:
  “Actually, [she] was a scientist, was a chemist who had actually worked in the chemical industry.” – Paul, [23:19]
• The conversation pivots to why climate change resists such rapid action: “It’s a boiling frog thing... no one feels this immediate kind of... crisis.” – Paul, [24:05]

C. Modern Threat: Mega-Constellations & the New Ozone Risk

[24:55–27:38]

• Jeni unpacks new research (Geophysical Research Letters): satellite re-entry dumps aluminum oxide into the stratosphere, acting like CFCs to catalyze ozone destruction.
  • An average 250 kg satellite may create 30 kg of aluminum oxide on re-entry.
  • 2022: 17 metric tons released; expected to rise dramatically with mega-constellations.
  • Problem: Aluminum oxide doesn’t destroy ozone directly but serves as a catalyst for leftover CFCs, potentially undermining ozone recovery.
  • Time lag: Takes decades to percolate and act—mirroring the “slow burn” peril of climate change.

Quote:
“The fact that the CFC number is dropping is gonna be compensated by all these extra nucleation points.” – Jeni, [27:07]

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4. SpaceX, Mega-Constellations, and Regulatory Gaps

[28:06–34:04]

• The conversation sharpens around Elon Musk’s plans for a million Starlink satellites to supposedly power A.I. computing.
  • Paul and Jeni dissect the technical, environmental and political absurdities.
  • 2024–2025: Starlink satellites executed 144,404 collision avoidance maneuvers in six months (~41 per satellite/year; one every 1.8 minutes).
• Accusations fly regarding “Teflon people” (especially Musk) facing little accountability in contrast to the UK’s ferocious treatment of political scandal.
• A call emerges for international regulation—not just for ozone, but also traffic and debris in space.

Quote:
“You can have lots of money...and you’re never held to account, especially in current times.” – Paul, [31:36]
“It’s a dangerous precedence, isn’t it?” – Jeni, [34:04]

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5. A Fun Discovery: Jupiter’s Real Size Recalibrated

[36:42–42:49]

• Lightening the mood, Jeni shares results from Juno: Jupiter is slightly smaller and more squished than thought.
  • Reductions: 8 km at equator, 24 km at poles—minor in context, but impactful for interior models.
• Discussion celebrates Jupiter’s historical importance in science and its continuing surprises.
• Listener “homework”: recalculate how many “Earth grapes” fit in Jupiter’s “basketball” given new dimensions.

Quote:
“Jupiter’s my favorite planet...I love it because of its historical importance.” – Jeni, [37:57]
“It’s almost disappeared!” – Paul, joking at the minuscule but media-worthy change, [40:12]

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6. Q&A: Earth’s Flipping Magnetic Field & the Aurora

[43:04–51:36]

Listener Question:
If the Earth's magnetic field is weakening ahead of a possible field reversal, will aurora become less frequent or show up at lower latitudes?

• Fact Check: Earth’s field has weakened ~10% over the last 200 years, part of a long cycle with “flips” happening over millennia.
  • Magnetic flips are gradual (spanning thousands of years), often involving “excursions” (short-lived reversals) seen in the geological record.
• The aurora’s bright oval would indeed shift to lower latitudes, possibly becoming more widespread and frequent—but not for lifetimes yet.
  • Multiple aurora “rings” could appear at lower latitudes and deeper into the atmosphere, but no extinction-level threat is evident.
• The science behind discoveries: The “barcode” magnetic signature of the Atlantic seafloor and how magnetic reversals were spotted.
• Atmospheric and ozone implications are discussed; the Earth remains highly resilient.

Quote:
“When the Earth's probably...midway through this flip...yeah, actually aurora will be a kind of thing that happens everywhere, spectacularly, everywhere, at lower latitudes...” – Paul, [49:33]

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7. Listener Feedback: Aurora Australis in Tasmania

[52:43–54:48]

• Lisa from Tasmania shares a stunning time-lapse video of the Southern Lights, noting the “pulsating” effect—so vivid it’s like “lightning flickering across the sky.” YouTube search: Aurora Australis from Tasmania
• The hosts express delight and awe at the footage, encouraging others to write in or test their show email (which may be broken!).

Quote:
“It’s so gorgeous...like, not just green, but like the purples...it was just stunning.” – Jeni, [54:01]

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Notable Timestamps

• 00:24: Episode opens; new two-episode format; “Chatty McChat” edition.
• 07:30: AstroCamp tickets and plans.
• 14:57: Transition to scientific discussion – ozone and atmospheric “holes”.
• 15:08: Jeni’s ozone radio segment; history and significance of ozone layer.
• 24:55: Satellite re-entry and the new ozone challenge.
• 28:06: Mega-constellations; Starlink and regulatory frustrations.
• 36:42: Jupiter’s revised measurements and significance.
• 43:04: Q&A: Earth’s magnetic field, aurora, and geomagnetic reversals.
• 52:43: Aurora Australis from Tasmania and show feedback.

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Style & Tone

The conversation is irreverent, warm, and thoroughly scientific. British humor and self-deprecation abound, paired with a deep respect for scientific nuance and skepticism. The hosts frequently blend personal experience with technical detail, making complex concepts approachable and memorable.

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Closing

The episode wraps with a call for listener engagement and (humorously) a plea to prove someone is listening.

Final Word:
"Try emailing us at [e-mail]...even if you just send us one line, because we're trying to figure out if these emails are working or not!" – Jeni, [54:48]

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Produced by: Ralph, Paul, Jeni, John, Damian & Dustin
Theme music: Star Salzman; stinger: Rin Jorgensen
More info: awesomeastronomy.com

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Summary by Awesome Astronomy Podcast Summarizer
For fans, the curious, and the time-starved—this episode covers ozone’s past and future, mega constellation megaproblems, and why Jupiter keeps fooling us, all through the lens of camaraderie and careful skepticism.

Transcript

[A]

Astronomy compels the soul to look upwards and leads us from this world to another. So said Plato. But then he also believed that social equality was wrong and thought that the ideal governance was by a rich elite ruling class known as the Guardians. So you can take or leave his advice to be fair, but what does make you look up and do this crazy thing called astronomy? Discuss. I'm Paul.

[B]

And I'm Jenny.

[A]

And welcome to episode 168 of awesome Astronomy for February 2026. Well, hello there, gorgeous. How are you?

[B]

Oh, hello, handsome. I am quite well. How are you?

[A]

Good. I am grand. I am grand. I. Yes, yes, very good. Thank you. Thank you. Yes.

[B]

And just so that the listeners know, because we've recently changed format, we're back to two episodes a month. But this is our chatty episode.

[A]

This is. This is the chatty McChatty episode. Absolutely. With a side order of chat. Yeah, it's good. It's full of astronomy goodness. But this is our chatty McChat. We're just gonna chill. Yeah, you've got a gin on.

[B]

I. I've got a gin.

[A]

You've got a gin on. Yeah.

[B]

So, you know, if you're listening, grab yourself one of your favorite beverage genies, be it alcoholic, be it not alcoholic.

[A]

I've got a decaf tea. Gary.

[B]

Yeah. You're being nice and sensible with decaf tea.

[A]

I'm being nice and sensible, yeah.

[B]

I have a gin, but in the gin glass from Kevin, our awesome astronomy gin glasses.

[A]

Our hundredth episode.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Which of course is that sort of 100th episode. Which wasn't 100 episodes as such, because we've done loads more than even 168 episodes.

[B]

Yeah, because we, we've had like part one and part two so far.

[A]

Part one and part two. And actually we've been like. Yeah, we've been doing, doing. Oh, God. I do know. I looked the other day at how many episodes we've done and it is a ridiculous number.

[B]

I think we're owed degrees in science communication now.

[A]

I think. I think we literally are. I think we literally.

[B]

The amount of writing and air time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Research.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Universities out there that want to give us honorary degrees in science communication.

[A]

We've got, I don't know, an Academy Award or a Pulitzer or Grammy or something. Nobel Prize. No, everyone wants a Nobel Prize. Just give them to anybody now. But yeah, it's so you see. Yeah, so we were about. He. Look, we are. We are talking to each other over the magic of Internet. But actually we, we Were in person recently.

[B]

I know, it was like a late Christmas miracle.

[A]

It was, it was.

[B]

Because some people may not know this, but when we record the podcast, I am in Barry in South Wales. You are in Wiltshire.

[A]

I am.

[B]

And yeah, we do this all over the airwaves.

[A]

We do, we do do. You're. You're at the. The Barry point which everything orbits around.

[B]

Yes, we are the center of the universe.

[A]

And. And I'm in that there. Wiltshire. And. But we went to London, innit?

[B]

London.

[A]

London. We went to London.

[B]

And this was to meet up with. With the Astro Camp podcast crew to discuss the last Astral Camp, make plans for the next Astro Camp, which we'll come on to and drink a lot.

[A]

Drink a lot of beer and eat a lot of pizza and watch ice hockey.

[B]

Oh my God. And it was so, what a game. And the best thing.

[A]

Poor goalie. That poor goalie.

[B]

It was. I gotta get this right. Streatham, right.

[A]

Scene Freedom.

[B]

Yeah, Streatham. Right. This is Cardiff. So it was like, woohoo. Represent.

[A]

Yeah. You were there as the token, the token supporter for Cardiff. Yeah. And yeah, I know. Goalie.

[B]

Oh, Stratum won 141 because Cardiff played poorly. It like double that face. I can't say that they played well. But the thing is, right, they were kind of cursed from the beginning because they didn't have their goalie, they did not have their backup goalie. They did not have their first emergency goalie or their second emergency goalie. It was a mate of a mate who hasn't played for six years and just stepped in. So they forfeit the game.

[A]

He tore his groin in the first four minutes.

[B]

Oh, and we were stood by those goals in the first quarter. No, first quarter, first, third, and the

[A]

way ice hockey were thirds. Yeah. But the, the. He tore his groin in the first four minutes.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And it looked like agony. And of course they didn't have another goalie. And the way this works, if you don't have anyone to go in goal, that's it, you forfeit the match. So they. They literally. He. He was there the whole game in absolute agony.

[B]

Yeah. And we could see it in his face.

[A]

Every time he went down, he couldn't get up again. He had to be helped clambering up the goal even. There's one point where he stood up and he didn't have his hockey stick and the ref had to come along and pick the hockey stick up for him in his hand. It was like, oh my God, he

[B]

just spent so much of it just on his Knees, feet splayed out, just trying to make himself as big as possible in front of the goal.

[A]

He was like, oh, God, stop, he's dead already.

[B]

But you know what, he did make some amazing saves. I've got a wonderful slow mo where like hockey puck is just coming and then he just like sticks his hand out and just catches it in the glove and.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, completely. It was, it was, it was, it was good fun. It's good fun. And it's like, say John, John, Long suffering John. He's our sound engineer and technician extraordinaire. He. He's. He's the biggest Stretton ice hockey supporter. And. Yeah, and we just. It was great. It was good to meet up and of course, we had that Martian corpse. Yes, he was propped up in the corner, wasn't he?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, good old Ralph, resurrected for a bit of pizza and beer. He was back. So, yeah, we had a lovely time. It was great. It was good to kind of hang out and.

[B]

Yeah. What. What did we have? We had like pumpkin on a pizza or pumpkin puree or something. That was good.

[A]

That was all right. There was one pizza. There was one. Pizza was really disappointing. We had really good wanky. We had wanky pizza. It was really.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it was like, you know, made by some bloke in his early 20s with a quick.

[A]

With a man.

[B]

Handmade jumper and a man bun and.

[A]

Yeah. Probably went to private school and didn't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Didn't want to become an estate agent.

[B]

Yeah. You know, it's good pizza when it's like.

[A]

Yeah, it was good. It was really good pizza. But there was one. There was one that wasn't so good, but there was some excellent pizza.

[B]

There's one that was like a white sauce, wasn't it, instead.

[A]

Yeah, that was good. That was really good.

[B]

Was it like pear and walnut and.

[A]

Yeah, that was good. That was a good pizza. No, that was a good. It was good. So it was good to catch up. That was good. It was good.

[B]

And the reason for catching up was Astro Camp.

[A]

It is Astro Camp. It is. It is fast approaching. Yes, fast approaching.

[B]

Our current plan is for tickets to go on sale on the 21st of February. So if you're listening to this, it's

[A]

just a few days time. Yeah.

[B]

Episodes come out few days time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dates for Astro Camp, the 18th to the 21st of April.

[A]

And we've got some great speakers lined up.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So waiting on confirmation from one. But of course, one of them is myself.

[A]

Yeah, one of. One of them is you One of them is you.

[B]

One of them is.

[A]

I mean, that's the one that, you know, if you wanted to actually just go to the pub at that point, you know, just, you know, it's probably, that's probably your chance.

[B]

I mean, to be fair, I am speaking on the Saturday when people are going to be setting up, but we're going to do an interactive Drake equation.

[A]

Yeah, it's really cool.

[B]

It's going to be very, very fun. My old supervisor Steve has confirmed, so he's going to be like telling us the secret story behind building a space telescope and specifically the Herschel Space Telescope.

[A]

That's cool. That's cool. Looking forward to that.

[B]

Yeah, it's going to be wicked. I mean, like, no, no spoilers or anything, but just like a little teaser that the whole concept of the telescope emerged from a scribble on a scrap piece of paper in Venice.

[A]

Oh, I'm looking forward to this. Looking forward to this. You see, I love that sort of stuff.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, and me. It's gonna be.

[A]

That's gonna be cool. That's cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we got, we got lots of things here and hopefully, hopefully the weather's. The weather. Oh, my God. The weather. Jesus Christ. The weather.

[B]

The sky was blue the other day.

[A]

Literally like. Yeah.

[B]

And I thought I was like, honest for planet.

[A]

We, we had, we had a sunny day, like, it was like mostly sunny day last Wednesday. So it's over a week ago. And it's literally what everyone's talking about. It's like literally like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or like, oh, didn't we have a lovely day last Wednesday? It's. We have officially not had a dry day since New Year.

[B]

We've had rain every day.

[A]

Every single day. Every within a 24 hour period. It has rained and sometimes rained all day. The weather has been so freaking misera.

[B]

Yep. It has been horrific.

[A]

But guaranteed Astro Camp's gonna be like clear skies. Guaranteed. It's gonna be. We're gonna get sunburnt. We're gonna, we're gonna be. Yeah. And then frostbitten all night because it's gonna be so clear.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that's what we want.

[A]

Your sunburn will be able to cool down as you look at the clear skies.

[B]

It'll keep you warm a lot.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Radiate. And underneath your coat, it's gonna be like a heated jacket of your own skin.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. Like, everyone will be crackling away like Ro. And at night chilling down. Yeah. It's going to be perfect because we deserve it. Because we've literally looked. It's the 12th of February.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's literally rained every single day since New Year so far.

[B]

Yeah, I know. It's like when we've had, like a brief hour of, like, not rain, I've been holding the cat up to the window and going, look, go outside. It's not raining.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, God, yeah, it literally, it's. Yeah, like, like this evening I. I run our local village cub pack for my sins. And tonight I actually planned. Because I plan in advance, but I'd kind of thought, oh, the weather's looking pretty miserable over the next little while. So tonight we normally go for a hike on our last. Our last meeting of the sort of school half term and we didn't. I thought it's gonna be muddy and horrible and of course it is muddy in the fields and things. We'll have a games night and we'll have like indoor games and stuff like that instead, which was really good. But of course, the irony is tonight is actually the first, like, actually quite pleasant evening we've had four weeks, literally, it's the only evening is, like, not wet and miserable and horrible.

[B]

Spring is coming. Spring is springing. It's gonna come.

[A]

No, we got winter first. Well, no, this is.

[B]

No, we haven't had full spring yet.

[A]

No, we've got a second. We've got. We got like third winter or whatever it is coming next. You know, there's snow at the weekend.

[B]

Then we've got second winter. We haven't had full spring yet.

[A]

We've just had like monsoon. There's snow predicted for the next couple of days and everything. And next, like over the weekend.

[B]

Oh, no, I think it's this full spring is coming. Full. We're going to have like three days of sunshine next few weeks. We're going to have like three days of sunshine. Everyone's going to get so hopeful and then boom. Minus seven.

[A]

I don't believe it. I literally think I'm going to see Kevin Costner walking past in a minute. And I know the water world, it's going to be just so much water, literally, Wiltshire is. Is like one massive swamp at the moment. So muddy out there.

[B]

That was so Welsh. Then I heard that come out of me.

[A]

What's that?

[B]

I said, oh, it's boggin came out. It's boggin. The same words I say, bring out the Welsh.

[A]

Bring out the Welsh in you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know the last time this happened to me where every day it rained is when I was living and working in Wales, so. So I. It was, it was. Where was it? 2000, 2001. And I was, I was in, I was working in the. In Porth Comprehensive. Porth comp.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It literally rained everything and it was like a record. It rained over three months. I think it rained every single friggin day.

[B]

Yeah, sounds about right.

[A]

Yeah. And we had a little sod, kept pulling the fire alarm as well.

[B]

Oh, to make everyone go and stand in the rain.

[A]

Everybody. Literally we had to troop out sometimes two, three times a day because this little kid kept pulling the fire alarm and we all had to troop out, stand in the rain, count all the heads, go back in again. And eventually. It's a great story because eventually he did it right in front of the head. And the head of pe for all Welsh PE teachers are a breed. They are literally like a. For our American listeners, you have a sort of, you know, your kind of phys ed teachers and there's like stereotypes, the stereotype like brick House PE teacher is Welsh in the uk. And they were the massive rugby player. Huge guy.

[B]

That's literally what I was going to say. Like ex rugby player.

[A]

Literally this guy was exactly like. His nose was broken in about 14 places. He had no, like his ears were like two massive cauliflowers on the side of his head. He had no neck and he wore like the tiniest rugby shorts with like massive thighs. He was just like a huge man. And he did it right in this little kid, he's only like 12 or so, did it right in front of them. He suddenly just like sneaked out of class and went, I'm gonna do it again. And then realized that. And so we all trooped. We didn't know this had happened. We all trooped out, all lining up again and all we saw was this little kid running across the school field in the rain, like almost whimpering with this massive pet Stormy, doing that sort of almost like RD Terminator thing like behind him, boom, boom. Shouting come back here you bastard. Because literally we had been trooping out in the rain for days, days and days and days for this because of this kid kept pulling his fire alarm. And so yeah, finally he was caught and he was trying to climb up the little chain link fence around the outside of the school.

[B]

That ain't gonna stop that.

[A]

And it was, it was like watching. It was like watching a hamster escape a wolf. You know, it was like something he's like.

[B]

And this is being scrapped him up over one shoulder.

[A]

It was, it was completely. It was so funny. But that was the last Time I remember the whole weather where it's just like rain every day. Like this just be so bad. Astrocur's gonna be perfect.

[B]

Yeah. But I think that leads us nicely to a bit of an interesting discussion point. Different kind of holes. So not holes in the sky where the rain gets in, but holes in the atmosphere.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Cause you were on the radio again.

[B]

I was on the radio, yeah. This was a really random one. I used BBC Berkshire and I did with them the question about if you shine a torch in space, like, how

[A]

far will the light go? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And they phoned me up and they were like, jed, we're not sure if this is like within your remit, but we thought we'd ask. And they had someone message or call in and ask about the hole in the ozone. Is it still there? Where is it?

[A]

God, you got all the hole in the ozone layer.

[B]

Yeah. And I promise that there's a spacey connection. That there is. We'll get to it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Completely.

[B]

But, yeah, and so I was like, oh, do you know what? I was like, if you're willing to give me a bit of time to research, I'm happy to answer the question. Because I was like, do you know what? I haven't thought about the hole in the ozone for such a long time. And I remember when I was in school, like, we talked about it all the time. Hole in the ozone hole. Like, it was like massive, well, disaster, but then also an amazing success story. It's like. I mean, I think. Let's. Let's just talk about the hole in the ozone and like ozone and stuff like that. So. Yeah, ozone. Ozone is three oxygen molecules.

[A]

Oh, three. Yeah, yeah. Very detectable. Very detectable from distance. Good. It's a life sign, probably.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. Because it depletes quickly if you don't have.

[A]

It depletes very quickly. So it needs to be replenished by O2 and. Yeah, absolutely. So that. That's just.

[B]

And then the O2 is made by plants and so.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

It's a.

[A]

It's a life signature.

[B]

It's one of like. It's a really strong biosignature. Much better than like carbon dioxide or something.

[A]

It's much easier to detect as well.

[B]

Yeah, it's like a. We find that it's going to be like, bing, bing, bing, bing. So the ends are here, you know.

[A]

Interesting, interesting molecule.

[B]

Yeah. So O3.3 atoms of oxygen in that molecule and it sits in the stratosphere. So we're talking 10 to 50 kilometers up.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And we care about ozone because it absorbs ultraviolet light from the sun. In a nutshell, life on Earth would not be possible without the ozone layer. So there's a little protective blanket because ultraviolet radiation is sterilizing. Just look at Mars, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, no ozone layer. Very, very dead planet on the surface. And we've been monitoring, like, the ozone layer since, like, as in, we've been monitoring it consistently since the 1950s, the British Antarctic Survey, and they. And they do it above Antarctica because air mass above Antarctica is reasonably stable.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It doesn't have so many cyclical. Like, it does have its own cycle, but the cycle is slow and repeatable and there's not loads of, like, eddies and changing. It's not as crazy basically over. It has its slow annual cycle. And so it's a good place to kind of measure what. What's going on with, with the ozone and everything. And in 1974, there was a paper published that theorized that CFCs could potentially damage the ozone layer. But because in the 70s and the 80s, like, CFCs were absolutely everywhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Industry did not want to know. Right. It was like in your fridges, in your aerosol cans.

[A]

Oh, it was, it was stuff like how you. Your burger, the polystyrene burger, things were made and all sorts. It was, it was everywhere.

[B]

Just absolutely. So. So industry was like, no, no, no, it's fine. Like, don't worry about CFCs. It might cause a little bit of salvage, but it's fine. It's all good. It's all good. Right. They'd also invested so much time and effort into, like, developing processes that use CFCs to make all of this stuff that they were like, do not. Do not want to have to redo all of that. And so then, you know, as time goes on, we're continuing to monitor the ozone. And in 1985, this is when the kind of hole in the ozone was. Was really confirmed. You know, there was lots of data to back it up, and it was linked back to CFCs. So why a CFC is an issue with the ozone layer. Ultraviolet light hits a CFC and releases chlorine from that molecule.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then a single chlorine molecule can break apart thousands of ozone molecules. So it is super, super destructive. Then when you get ice crystals forming in the stratosphere, they act like little nucleation points and it kind of enables. It's a catalyst for this reaction to happen. And this is why with the hole in the ozone, it's not a permanent Hole. So I didn't realize this. It's not always there. The hole in the ozone forms in spring and then into summer it all the, the air kind of mixes through and it dilutes it down and it kind of disappears. And then every spring it reforms again. And that's because spring brings you the right conditions where you're coming out of winter, so it's cold, the atmosphere is cold, so you can form these ice crystals. But then as you're going into spring, you're starting to get the UV light from the sun again. So because, you know, winter you've got, you know, no, no sun. And down in Antarctica in winter, you know, it's below the horizon for a period of time. So the UV levels drop right off. And then having that big hole is an issue because then as that hole has to get through, fills back in, it dilutes the ozone layer or globally makes it much, much more diffuse. And so that's why it's an issue. But yeah, I didn't realize that this hole was like it appeared annually. And the size of it then represents how, you know, kind of like crisis point on the, on terms of the ozone. And at its largest extent. This was the fact that terrifies me the most. Its largest extent, the hole in the ozone was seven times the size of Europe.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember.

[B]

Enormous.

[A]

I remember. See, like, I remember this in the 80s. I just, I just remember all this kind of. It was actually a really, really sort of interesting, scary point because it was, it was realized in the late 80s that, you know, this was actually a major, major problem. And it was, it was being pointed out that was certain areas, especially like northern Europe and sort of Canada and things up where there was more uv, there was more uv, and therefore this, this was actually, you know, really potentially dangerous and harmful to human health. That, you know, increased skin cancers and things like that. Because this, the hole was there that was going to let in loads more UV light than you would normally get. Yeah, I remember that as a kid in primary school, this was such a big issue. It was like the big issue of the day.

[B]

Yeah. And I just, Yeah, I had no idea like how big it was like that. That whole seven times size of Europe is wild. That's a lot of air that has to sort of move around and refill and everything. But I think that the hole in the ozone is like the one example where scientists went, we've got this problem, it affects us all. Politicians fix it. And they kind of went, okay and fixed it.

[A]

Yeah. And it is that difference, I think, with, with climate change. Because actually what, what happened was, I think it was because the threat was so immediate, it was so obvious and so immediate and so kind of very apparent that this wasn't something that was just developing this, this was a problem right now, like, literally you could measure the increase uv. This was going to be an immediate issue. And it was a really, actually quite stunning example of international cooperation when it sort of kicked off which rare and even rarer now where actually when, back when we had decent politicians, has that ever existed? Well, it's actually interesting because you think like the. And while I'm never one to defend her very often, you know, the British Prime Minister at the time, Margaret Thatcher actually was a chemist, you know, so you literally had a Prime Minister who wasn't, you know, an economist or a lawyer or. He actually was a scientist, was a chemist who had actually worked in the chemical industry and everything and so really understood this was an issue. Actually completely got it straight out about this. This was not something that she was going to pretend. Oh, yeah, I don't quite understand this or anything like that was just whatever, you know, the scientists, she was a scientist. And so it was interesting because it actually, you feel like things like that. It did move quite quickly. Really quickly. Whereas climate change course is so, so much more long term. Yeah, it's a sort of slowly. It's a boiling frog thing. It's just slowly unfolding over decades and decades and decades and no one feels this immediate kind of. It's a crisis.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like this was.

[B]

So this is where my spacey link comes in.

[A]

Yeah, go on. Because what is the spacey link?

[B]

So thanks to the 1987 protocol, right, CFC's got banned and we're on track to go back down to normal levels by 2050s. That's because CFC's live for a long time. They're still up there from the 70s, but by, by the 2050s, we're going to be back to normal with the ozone. Or are we?

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

Or are we?

[A]

Or are we? Exactly. This is. This is the depressing bit.

[B]

Yeah. Now I kind of mentioned, last time we did our chatty episode, just casually mentioned, oh, yeah, satellites may be an issue for the ozone layer. I've kind of had this factoid floating around in my brain for a while. I was like, I gotta dig into this. Like, there has to be more research on this. I found a paper in the Geophysical Research Letters and it's called Potential Ozone Depletion from Satellite Demise during atmospheric re entry in the era of mega constellations. Now, we mentioned last time, we talked

[A]

about this before, didn't we, that the

[B]

way we handle satellites that are defunct in low Earth orbit is we burn them up in the atmosphere. Right. Now, this paper has got some numbers to kind of go with this, and this is all to do with simulations in the lab. And they believe, like, based on their simulations, that a average 250 kilogram satellite could dump 30 kilos, so just over 10% of its weight as aluminium oxide into the atmosphere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is an astonishing amount of aluminium oxide.

[A]

It is a lot of aluminum oxide.

[B]

They think in 2022 that 17 metric tons of aluminium oxide was dumped into the upper atmosphere. Jeez, that's 2022 numbers which were a fraction of what we're seeing this year, next year, year after that. Right. Now, the thing is. So the issue here is that the aluminum oxide basically takes the form of the ice crystals. It does the same job. It catalyzes the reaction. And the thing is, we know that the CFCs are still up there, because if there wasn't CFCs up there, then having this aluminium oxide wouldn't necessarily be a problem for the ozone because it's just acting like a catalyst. But because the CFCs are up there, they're gonna be up there for decades. And you're suddenly dumping all of these extra nucleation points in there. The fact that the CFC number is dropping is gonna be compensated by all these extra nucleation points. And so this is kind of a first warning that we might have issues in the future with the ozone layer.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because the problem is this aluminium oxide. Like, it takes decades to percolate down to the. The ozone layer. So it's not going to be an immediate effect. It's like the climate change that you said about earlier, where that's a very, very slow burn. This has the same potential to be a very, very slow burn.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And of course, things are different now. Things are very different when it comes to sort of regulation. And who is responsible for this. We're not talking about a load of essentially small companies building fridges and things like that all over the globe that we're talking about. Well, let's face it, we're talking about one person in particular.

[B]

We are, yeah. So someone who wants to send a million starlinks. No, I'm not meaning starlinks satellites is what I want to say. Say that again.

[A]

Yes. Because they want to be data centers, aren't they? It's all about orbital data centers, which actually doesn't work at the moment anyway.

[B]

No, this is his new announcement, isn't it? Over a million satellites to power AI computers.

[A]

He's made a lot of announcements in the last couple of weeks.

[B]

Oh yeah, cities on the moon.

[A]

It's almost like there was some other thing he was mentioned in that he's desperately now trying to sort of distract from.

[B]

Yeah, don't be suspicious, don't be suspicious.

[A]

It's just like, yeah, I didn't visit the island, but his. Look, let's talk about the moon and million satellites. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, the despicable man. Yeah, it's just. It shows you you can have lots of money and all the money, essentially.

[B]

Yeah. And this is the thing is I have done some digging right. Into Elon Musk's Starlinks as well. It's been a diggy couple of weeks for me. So this is like the breaking news that Elon Musk wants to put a million satellites to power AI computers into space. Right. His argument is it'll ease the power demand on the grid. And also you won't be using water and you won't be taking up land. And I see his water and land points, but thing is, there's radiation damage to all your computer components. You still have to somehow cool them down. The orbits. The orbits alone. Right. So I found an article by the Independent. Wright quoted Musk saying that his Starlink Med constellation has had only one low velocity debris generating event. Right. In seven years at the current numbers of about 10,000 satellites. Right. Well, I have, I have some other numbers for Elon Musk. Right. And this comes from a paper called An Orbital House of Cards Frequent Mag Constellation Close Conjunctions. And this is the paper associated with Crash Clock.

[A]

This is what we talked about, what two episodes ago. We literally talked about this, didn't we? In fact, it was this paper. This was the paper we were looking at.

[B]

This is the paper that goes to Crash. And I'm just bringing it up again because there's, there's such a beautiful sentence in it, right? So we're at 10,000 ish Starlinks, right? And he almost wants a million satellites in no Earth orbit. Okay, listen to this.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

This is a quote from the paper and it says according to the most recent SpaceX biannual report, Starlink satellites made 144,404 collision avoidance maneuvers in the period between 1 December 2024 and 31 May 2025. So six months, averaging to 41 maneuvers per satellite per year, or one collision avoidance maneuver every 1.8 minutes across the whole mega constellation. And he wants to put a million satellites in low earth orbit. It's crap. It's a load of crap. I think he's just saying, first of all, to distract, as you rightly pointed out. Second of all, I think it's just a ploy to reserve orbit so that other people can't use them.

[A]

Yeah, but the thing is, when you've got that much money, you can say and do and behave however you want, and you're never held to account, especially in current times.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, to. To not get too kind of distracted ourselves by this. But I do find it. It was pointed out in the news by. It was. It was. I think it was Ian Hislop, actually. The. The guy who entered to a private eye who points out, like there's a huge difference between what's happening on each side of the Atlantic. With regards to the files where we've had, like, we've literally almost. The Prime Minister's almost been toppled by it. Not because he's in the files, but because he appointed someone who was. So we've almost lost our prime minister for it. The guy who. Who he appointed is practically being dragged through the streets and. And whipped.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, I mean, I just have to say, Andrew, and everything that's happened and happening to him. I mean, literally, he's almost bringing the monarchy down. You know, there's people. Literally. The. The king was booed the other day. This is the reaction on this side of the Atlantic to that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Go to the other side of the Atlantic.

[B]

Yeah, well, yeah.

[A]

You know, I'm raising my arms and shrugging for. For the. For the people listening in black and white. Like, literally.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's fascinating that this whole thing is actually a thing that happened in America and is like this whole thing and it is involving these people, these. These Teflon people. These Teflon people who just seem to be able to behave how they want and get away with it. And that then actually translates into things like this where you can go, ah, let's put a million satellites up in space. Let's do this. I just. I'll just burn satellites up and break the seat. Break the ozone layer. Who cares?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they never held to account.

[B]

Yeah. It's actually an excellent point. I haven't thought about it too much, but yeah, you're absolutely right.

[A]

That never.

[B]

They're just not being held to account.

[A]

No, no. If if they're not being held to account when literally their names are in these flipping files about disgusting, anonymous disgusting human beings and they're all like, his mate and they're all like, you know, went to his island, they were parties and all the rest of it, and nothing happens, then they can do what they like. They literally know they're getting away with it. They can get away with what they like. If they can get away with that and get away with it.

[B]

It's a dangerous precedence, isn't it, actually?

[A]

Of course it is. Of course it is. And I have to say, I mean, it's disgusting, the whole thing, but. And I don't want to get like any kind of national pride out, but it is. I do find it. And as it was Ian Hislop was saying, the editor of Private Eye was kind of pointing out this complete divergence of reaction to this. I think we live in the shadow of the whole Jimmy Savile thing. So as soon as, you know, literally, it's like, well, you're. You are verboten. You are just dirt. And when we will destroy you, we will. And we still. I mean, we still do in this country. We still do stamp on our politicians. They work for us and we stamp on them. If they disappoint, we destroy them. I mean, it is very much a sort of British technique.

[B]

But then I am, you know, I am proud that we are standing up, of course.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Not taking this and saying this is unacceptable.

[A]

We don't put our politicians or even our royals on pedestals. We, for a country famous for deference, all the rest of it, we're quite also good at destroying them and say like that, actually, you work for us.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you're doomed. I mean, like, Starmer's doomed. He literally is on borrowed time.

[B]

Yeah. As you think.

[A]

Yeah. Because he hasn't got long. Literally, the stain of this will just ruin him. He already has. But the thing is, he's not even in the files.

[B]

No.

[A]

This is the bonkers thing. Whereas there's a certain world leader who actually is. He's not just in the files a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's literally like in it thousands of times.

[B]

Hey, guys, it's Dustin. That would be about a million times.

[A]

Not a mention. Not a mention. Doesn't slides off of him like a. On a shovel. It's incredible. And it goes. But just. But it does translate into this that they can do what they like.

[B]

Yeah. And I think this lack of kind of regulations around mega constellations and disposal methods, it's glaringly obvious that we need like another ozone intervention essentially. Now we need. I know. I, I don't think, I don't know what the breaking point is going to be, but I think it's going to come too late. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, but anyway, before we get too kind of bogged down, this from, from one over inflated thing to something else that turns out to be actually over inflated as well.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Jupiter. I know, it's Jupiter. This is a fun little story, right? Because we're all about the positives now for the rest of the episode. This is a fun little story I found and I, I just love it because it highlights how little we know about the solar system. Like, you know, we're looking, we're finding the light from the first galaxies and, and the first stars and we're peering into, you know, newborn stars and planets and all of these wild and wacky things and we still don't know how big Jupiter really is.

[A]

I, it's, I love this, it's, it reminds me of that thing that we don't actually have Saturn's orbit completely nailed down.

[B]

Yeah. Really do we know?

[A]

Yeah, we talked about this on. Awesome. Oh years ago there was a whole story about this and how actually we don't have Saturn's orbit absolutely precisely nailed down. There is still some error and because

[B]

we just haven't been able to study it for long enough basically.

[A]

And because of the influence of Jupiter I guess, and TNOs and you know, all those little influences, actually it's not nailed down. Absolutely precise.

[B]

Yeah, I love Jupiter. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because Jupiter's my favorite planet. Right. Lots of people go for Saturn because of the rings, but I love Jupiter.

[A]

No, Jupiter. Yes, I love Jupiter.

[B]

Jupiter all the way. And I love it because of its historical importance.

[A]

I agree. We've talked about this before and I absolutely agree. I think Jupiter's. Because it literally has, it's interesting, it's got detail and it's interesting, it has,

[B]

you've got all those bands and stripes, great red spot. If Talisco is big enough, even through binoculars, you've got the Galilean moons.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[B]

And you can see a moving. And you know, you can repeat the kind of measurements that Galileo did when he was first seeing them, figuring out that, oh my God, they're actually orbiting Jupiter. It was concrete evidence for the sun centered theory of the solar system, the Copernican theory. And I just, that is why I love Jupiter and the fact that, you know, Jupiter has been studied since the telescope was invented. You Know in. You know, as in it's been studied in detail. Right. From the words go. And it turns out we were still getting its size wrong. Like, it's.

[A]

That's. That's mad, isn't it? The fact that we've actually been there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Many several times. Yeah, several times. We've literally had spacecraft in orbit around it for months. Yes, months and months and years. Yeah, years.

[B]

I mean, Juno, which is where this study comes from, got there in July 2016.

[A]

That's bonkers, isn't it?

[B]

And then still on a decade.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And literally we don't know how big it is.

[B]

Yeah. So the new results from Juno are that Jupiter is slightly smaller the equator, and a little bit more squished down than we thought it was.

[A]

It's even more satsuma, like, so it's.

[B]

Yes, yeah, yeah, but, yeah, yeah, Right, but let's talk about the numbers. Right, so our current diameters for Jupiter, so equatorially 42,984 km pole to pole, then 133,708.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We are shrinking it by 8 km across the equator.

[A]

Right, okay.

[B]

And 24 at the poles.

[A]

Oh, my God. It's just. It's almost. It's almost disappeared.

[B]

I know, I had you guys going, didn't I?

[A]

But will we ever see Jupiter again? I mean, it just sounds like it's shrinking away to nothingness.

[B]

I know. It's such an insignificant amount. Right? You think. You think it's an insignificant amount?

[A]

I know, I know, I know.

[B]

But they have fed the new numbers into models which try and explain Jupiter's interior. And then by explaining the interior, you know, it explains. Explaining the manifestations. Manifestations on the surface and. Yeah, and the models actually fit better with these new measurements.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. So even though it's like we are talking a few kilometers when we're talking hundreds of thousands of kilometers, you wouldn't think it matters, but actually it does.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then, of course, the better we understand Jupiter, the better we understand gas giants elsewhere. Yeah. And if anyone's interested into how they did this, it was all about when Juno sends back radio communications to Earth. If they're sort of timed correctly, then the radio communications will kind of go through the upper atmosphere.

[A]

Yeah, it's been done before. Like that. Yes, yes.

[B]

Yeah. And so then those changes in frequency and when the signal arrives and things like that, you can use that then to infer how big the planet is. And so that's how the, the measurements were done. And. Yeah, I just. I just think It's a really neat, neat little story.

[A]

Yeah, it's cool. It was cool. It's cool. But it is, it's, it, it's, it's also a story about that precision thing, isn't it? Because actually we do sort of have the size of Jupiter essentially correct.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But this is actually making it more accurate. This is actually saying, oh, actually no, it's 8km different and it's 24km.

[B]

It's actually, there's shift in the boundaries a little bit.

[A]

It's just, it's just making that, getting that precision. Right. Which is what it's all about. That's what science is all about. It's make, it's all about getting the better, better and more precise results as you go along.

[B]

And I've got some homework for the listeners. Oh, okay, homework for, listen, so you could fit a thousand Earths, give or take, inside Jupiter, Right. So if Earth was a grape, then Jupiter's basketball with the new size measurements, I want to know how many grapes I can now fit in my basketball. Oh, go, go, go and do the math, someone.

[A]

Yeah, well, the thing is circles and spheres, it actually does make a significant difference when you do even move a little bit, doesn't it? It does actually, like the volume is, is dramatically changed.

[B]

Yeah. So someone, someone can go do the maths.

[A]

Well, next, you know what, we're going to some questions now. And here's really interesting. This was a question from John, actually.

[B]

It was from John.

[A]

This is an internal question, John, on our, on our sort of back channel, they sort of went. The other day, went, by the way, I was, you know, I'm gonna find it. I'm just gonna read what he said. This was Joshua Random for the day. As the Earth's magnetic field is weakening, getting ready to flip, will Aurora become less frequent or appear at lower latitudes as it's not being confined to the poles?

[B]

Such a good question. And I, like, I hadn't ever thought about it.

[A]

It's a great question because of course, I mean, the first thing to say is, yes, actually Earth's magnetic field is weakening, has been weakening probably over the last 200 years. Yeah, we think it's actually gone down by as much as about 10% or so in the last about 2200 years.

[B]

And this is unprecedented. This happen periodically, every, all the time,

[A]

essentially all the way through Earth's history. It's, it's been happening every sort of

[B]

like few tens of thousands years. Yeah, we get this flip of the poles.

[A]

Exactly. And but another thing is when we say it's getting ready to flip, actually it, it isn't in the sense that actually the flip itself, generally when we look back through the, the kind of geological record, think that actually takes a long time. It's, it's not geologically very quick because of course, geological time is massive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But on a human scale, actually we're still talking about something that occurs over like a thousand years or so many, many generations. This is not something that we're going to wake up one morning go, oh my God, the compass is going the other way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, literally it's not just going to happen overnight. It's something that's probably slowly in the process of happening over a period of probably like the next thousand years or so. Yeah, this is, this is not.

[B]

Yeah, maybe. I mean,

[A]

there are some little blips because there are, there are, but there's some odds. There's some really weird things about this in geology about. They call them excursions.

[B]

The magnetic field just does a little wonder and then goes back home.

[A]

Yeah, it does, it does. It basically goes on like a little, little wonder and they. Sometimes we think it does it quite quickly like over like a 50 year. Little goes like, and then goes back into again or does it over like 100 years or so. He does a little, little excursion and he goes, actually, I'm going back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's all this record of what they call excursions. But actually the full flip is like a big, actually a much longer process on a human scale, geologically very quick, but on a, on a human scale, but actually like sort of, you know, and it's happened loads of years. It's happened loads and loads and loads of time. The, the, the way we discovered this I always found fascinating. I'd studied this at university.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's the, if you look at the Atlantic, of course, because you've got the Mid Atlantic Ridge, which is, you know, essentially lava is welling up and forming, forming like more crust as it, as it, the two sides move apart. The iron in that, you know, the metals in that. And the iron particularly, of course aligns with the magnetic field of the Earth as it sets. So as that rock with that molten rock sort of becomes solid, it, the, the iron in it aligns itself with the magnetic field.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

If you take a magnetometer and go across the seabed of the Atlantic, it looks like a barcode because the, the iron here pushed away and then, and then the next, you know, you move a few miles, you go that way a little bit More. And the iron's pointing the other way and then it's pointed the other way. Then it's.

[B]

I love science.

[A]

And so it looks like the, basically the, if you map the, the iron in, in the, the crust of the, like the bottom of the Atlantic, it looks like a massive barcode of like, alternate direction.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's how, it's essentially how they kind of showed that this is, this is a thing. This is how you know what, what happened. And then of course, that's how they can then date it and how they know when these flips happened.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, in the. Certainly in the history, like how the Atlantic Ocean's been opening up over millions and millions of years. So we know it's happened loads. It's not unusual and it doesn't end life. They did look at whether it causes extinctions and things like that. And it doesn't.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It can cause a bit of interference is the way I've seen it described. Because as, as you get the magnetic field weakening before the flip, then the Earth does have less protection against ultraviolet rays from the sun.

[A]

And so, yeah, our atmosphere actually does most of that.

[B]

Yeah. But with more ultraviolet rays coming through, you get, for example, more interference with the ozone layer.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So, you know, you, it, like there's a bit of like, interference is the way I've seen it described, but yeah, it's not enough to cause like a, a global extinction or anything.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

But in terms of the aurora, as this magnetic field weakens and it starts like the poles start wandering about a bit. It's so cool because the, that, that aurora oval that we talk about. Because, you know, the thing is, if you want to see aurora, you don't want to be at the North Pole.

[A]

No.

[B]

Because it's like this around the poles.

[A]

You want to be more like near the Arctic Circle itself, actually. A bit further down.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Where you're like prime aurora time is there. As it weakens, it moves down to lower latitudes. So that's great for us, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In terms of the aurora.

[A]

Absolutely. And, and this, this whole sort of notions that basically we will get more spectacular aurora.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it will penetrate deeper into the atmosphere.

[B]

Yeah. Because the magnetic fields weaker. So those particles can get through to the atmosphere.

[A]

Exactly. It. Quite often you get multiple poles.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Across the Earth. So like, you don't just get a north south pole. We actually get sort of as it's get these multiple poles. So actually the, the aurora gets kind of these Aurora if you like rings appear kind of all over the Earth in different places.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're. They're much deeper into the atmosphere and can be occurring at any latitude. So yeah. When the Earth's probably like midway through this flip and it's all going a bit chaotic. Yeah actually Aurora will be a kind of thing that happens everywhere spectacularly everywhere at. At a lower latitudes and lower sun

[B]

cream on while you're watching it. But.

[A]

Oh yeah you might. You might need a little bit more. But it's interesting because they. They think actually the interaction of. Of the sun on our atmosphere and. And kind of actually with the magnetic field that's there actually then generates protection anyway there is. There is a sort of the Earth the Earth is much more protected than we give it credit for I think. You know we think oh it's that bubble that collapses all over and it isn't entirely. And there's no evidence of any kind of extinction correlation to. To these flips because we know when they happened and we can sort of map.

[B]

Yeah and you can like look at the fossil record and.

[A]

Yeah, exactly exactly. So yeah so yeah it's. It's. It's. But don't. Don't hold your breath. It's probably not something that's you know you're going to wake up and see tomorrow.

[B]

Not in our lifetime.

[A]

It's a many gener in the future probably several lifetimes. This is something over the next bite they say a thousand years it could be longer. Some of these eclipse Take like 10,000 years.

[B]

Yeah. We just don't know like this so unpredictable. We know that like we're overdue one it's going to happen. Yeah but when it'll happen and how long it's going to take who knows exactly.

[A]

And it's only statistically we're overdue one. It's just like roughly from what we can see from the average it probably should be of like happening about now ish. Or already have happened. But yeah actually there are ones where it doesn't flip for ages. You know this barcode so you can read it. There's bigger gaps that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So it's not a regular thing doesn't it. There doesn't appear to be any sort of regularity to it. It just sort of happens is a

[B]

bit chaotic and that highlights our lack of understanding of the driving mechanisms behind it because we're not sure. We really don't know why it happens.

[A]

Yeah I think it was. I seem to remember the excursion thing is where I think it's the outer core moves, but the inner core doesn't. And so I think the inner core then sort of brings the outer core, the liquid core, like, brings it back, whereas the proper flip, it actually has both of them move. So what move is it? Yeah, it's. Who knows, all sorts of weird, wonderful things going on.

[B]

And then just to finish, because it's a very related note, we have an email, but this is not an email that's come to the [e-mail] it's an email that's come to me. So I'm still not sure if the [e-mail] is actually working. So we may need a new email soon because I'm not sure what's going on with it or just no one's listening to us anymore.

[A]

No one's listening. No one's listening.

[B]

No one's listening to us anymore. So this comes from Lisa in Tasmania, and Lisa says, hi, Jenny. Greetings from Tasmania. I hope you are well. I am well. Thank you very much, Lisa. I was listening to the latest awesome astronomy podcast and I wanted to send you a quick video time lapse of the aurora australis from the 20th of January. Here's a link. Paul mentioned the pulsating, and this is the third time I've seen that with the naked eye from Tasmania, you lucky ducky. It was pulsating so quickly, it could almost be described as lightning flickering across the sky. The video is only short. The time lapse starts at 30 seconds in. I hope you get a chance to watch and see what the southern lights look like. Happy stargazing, Lisa. Now, if you want to find this video, it's on YouTube and it's called Aurora Australis from Tasmania. And. Oh, Lisa, it's so gorgeous.

[A]

It's stunning.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's. It's a lovely video. It's a really lovely video.

[B]

It is a really lovely video. And I've actually emailed Lisa back and asked her what her camera settings were. So the next time I prepared, there's

[A]

the bit about a minute in which is just. Oh, it's spectacular. It's just. Just really stunning.

[B]

Like, not just green, but like the purples. Because you said about purples.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, God. It was, it was. It was just stunning. I still, you know those things that makes you smile. It's just so. Such an incredible thing. Such an incredible thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So.

[B]

So thank you very much, Lisa, for sending that to us. And anyone else listening, try emailing us@the showesomeastronomy.com even if you just send us one line because we're trying to figure out if these emails are working or not. It would mean a lot if you can just send us something at the show awesomeastronomy.com if we don't hear anything, we'll try making a new email. And then if we still don't hear anything while we know that no one's listening and we're just shouting into the void.

[A]

Yeah, but no one's listening anymore.

[B]

No one's listening. No. But that does bring us to the end of our chatty show. So we hope you've enjoyed your beverageini.

[A]

Yeah. Yep, Chin chin.

[B]

Enjoyed the little space discussion. Yeah, Chin Chin.

[A]

I'm all out of tea now. I'm all out of tea.

[B]

I have probably one mouthful of gin left. That's it. So Cohen timed it quite nicely. So yeah, nice do email us.

[A]

But otherwise, until next time, it's goodbye from Cydonia Base.

[B]

Bye bye Hoel Val.

[C]

Awesome Astronomy is produced by Ralph Paul, Jen, John Damian and Dustin and is free to use with attribution. Theme music by Star Salzman with stinger variation by Rin Jorgensen. We promote general science, astronomy, space exploration and rational thinking with more resources on our [e-mail] if you want us to read your thoughts and comments out on the show, send us your views, opinions, critiques or questions to the show at awesomeastronomy. Com. Tweet us at awesome Astropod or give the awesome Astronomy Facebook page a like and leave your comments there. Thanks for listening. From Cydonia Base Head of Transmission.