← Baby, this is Keke Palmer
Baby, this is Keke Palmer
From “The Wood” to “The Mandalorian”: Rick Famuyiwa Proves Good Stories Are Universal
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- [00:00]
Keke Palmer
This episode is sponsored by the lovely people over at Airbnb. Are you celebrating love this month? Book an Airbnb for you and your boo and watch the sparks fly. Now let's start the show. Hey, it's your girl, Keke Palmer here. One thing that I think a lot of creative people struggle with is finding an authentic voice. I'm curious of what makes a creative voice authentic and how we find that sort of voice. So today we have Rick Famuyiwa here to tell us about his creative journey and how influences like hip hop music has shaped his work. So let's get into it because, baby, this is Keke Palmer. No matter what we doing in the car, just chilling, pop on Amazon music, sit back and listen. Life, love, sex, science, covering it all, especially the bad. Cause money always evolved. No matter what it is, we gonna make it make sense. Nothing else to do but kick it with the homies and kings. So grab you a drink and a snack you enjoy and get into the vibe that only ones you know it's your girl. This is Kiki, baby. This is Kiki Palma. Yeah. I am so hyped to have this one of a kind filmmaker here today. He is a visionary director, writer and producer known for creating stories that capture culture, identity, and real life experiences with authenticity. You've seen his work in films like Dope, the the Wood and Brown Sugar. Lately he's been writing, directing and producing for the critically acclaimed Star wars show, the Mandalorian. Rick Famuyewa, welcome to the show.
- [01:37]
Rick Famuyiwa
Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's excited to be here.
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Keke Palmer
You know, the first time that I met you, all I could talk about was the Wood, the Wood, the Wood.
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Rick Famuyiwa
The Wood, the Wood.
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Keke Palmer
And I'm telling you, man, I saw that movie when I was, I think, probably way too young to see it, like six or seven years old. But what I love, right, way too young. But what I loved about that movie, even at that young age, what I understood was this reminds me of my family and my community, I think, a lot of times. And I think maybe I was able to articulate this, obviously as I got older, that we didn't always see our stories and our culture with all the difficulties that felt like love in the end, there was no pain, no strife. Even when they had that scene with the cops or whatever. Like that moments after they're laughing, they're in the school dance, we're moving on.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Exactly.
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Keke Palmer
And I felt like that was the first time. And your movies in general, I mean, Brown Sugar is a movie that I still go to bed to watching every night.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Oh, my goodness.
- [02:29]
Keke Palmer
Where they just show our joy, our love, our laughter, our troubles, but in a way that feels so casual, accessible, and as close to reality as I feel like you could get in a movie. So I want to start at the beginning of that. When you did the Wood, what was happening in your life at the time, and what was happening in those three lead actors? Because, I mean, they're stars that we know today.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Exactly.
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Keke Palmer
But what were they then?
- [02:54]
Rick Famuyiwa
Well, you know, I'd gone to. To film school, went to usc, and, you know, I originally went there, you know, thought I was going to be a lawyer, you know, So I was like. I was political science major. I was, like, doing my pre law thing. I was actually playing hoops on the team.
- [03:13]
Keke Palmer
Yes.
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Rick Famuyiwa
And then I took a film class as an art elective. And just like, you know, I'm thinking, all right, you know, this should be fun. Watch some movies. And the concept that you had a class where you could, like, watch movies was so funny and intriguing to me that I was like, let me do this. And. And I did it. And it was amazing because I was watching all these incredible movies and got into so much of the history and saw films from the past that I'd heard about, but never really saw and got to see them on a big screen. And I got hooked, you know, and then I started taking more electives as much as I could, and then ended up actually, you know, transferring into the school. I dropped out of my major and off the basketball team. And I was like, this is what I was going to do. And I think it's because I always loved storytelling, but I just, you know, the idea that you can make movies for a living just. I grew up in Inglewood, so it wasn't like you were thinking, I'm going to do this for a living. So anyway, I did a short film called Blacktop Lingo, which was kind of about the neighborhood I grew up in. And it was, like, centered around this basketball court, and it was like a day in the life of this basketball court, and it was all the characters that showed up there. And it was a short film I did, like, my senior year. And that film got into Sundance Film Festival when I was a senior at usc. And so, you know, after that, I went to the festival with the film. I met, like, a lot of people there. You know, I got an agent out of it. So I was trying to hustle and do my. My Hollywood thing coming out of school, which was kind of crazy. For me to think that this was happening. But, you know, this was like 1997, 96. And so, you know, I went in with a lot of, like, the ideas that I wanted to make and was getting a whole lot of resistance to it. There was just a lot of people who did not understand. Even though I think, you know, Spike and Robert Townsend were doing a lot of great work, there was still not a lot of film during this period that was really, you know, a lot.
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Keke Palmer
Of hyper reality with both of those. So I'm not sure what blacktop lingo was like, but knowing your work, it brought in the fresh, grounded perspective that wasn't. So it was just like, this is life.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah.
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Keke Palmer
They weren't sure.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah. Cause boys had come. Boys in the hood and Menace to Society. So there was like a real sort of like, okay, that's black cinema. Right. For a lot of people in Hollywood. And so. And I'd grown up watching, you know, Back to the Future and Ghostbusters and different things like that and ET But.
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Keke Palmer
I love to hear you say this, because that's what I. You know, it's that wholesomeness that's like, black can exist in and still be cool. Like, Mackin. Hanging like that is cool. But there's such a wholesomeness that exists even with Stacey. Like, he gonna beat your ass. Heat a blood. But it's like, yo, I'm looking out for you, Youngin. When you were mentioning being in school and watching movies and studying and learning the history. I'm curious of what directors or writers, filmmakers that you realize that you shared a liking to.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah. You know, George Lucas, he had a film called American Graffiti, which kind of reminded me of me and my friends. I grew up in la, and so it felt like a California story. And I knew him from Star wars, but I hadn't seen American Graffiti. And so when I saw that, it really moved me. And then there were filmmakers like Francois Truffaut, and there was a film called 400 Blows that also had these two young characters in it that were, you know, again, kind of. They were rough little characters, but they were sweet, you know. And so as I was sort of struggling to get my foot in the door and, you know, and I started, like, pitching crazy ideas. Cause I felt like that's what the business wanted. So I'm trying to like, figure out, you know, what. What story I can tell where someone wears a dress, but then pulls out a gun.
- [07:24]
Keke Palmer
You know, Come on, tits.
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Rick Famuyiwa
So I'm like, yeah. So I pictured all this stuff and I'm like. And I came out of it just feeling like, what the hell am I doing? And so finally I just. I was like, okay, if someone said, write a story, don't worry about whether you could sell it, anyone could buy it, what would be the story you would write? And so I thought about, like, me and my boys, and I was like, this is the story I would tell. I'd want to tell a story like, you know, American Graffiti or Diner or these coming of age films that I really loved when I was watching them in film school. I said I would want to do my version of that, but based with my friends because I grew up in the same communities that a lot of these films were set, like Boys and Menace. But my experience was different, right? I wasn't banging, I wasn't selling dope. I wasn't doing any. I was trying to, like, just, you know, me and my friends would try to just hang out and, you know, get girls or go to dances or play sports and yeah, we had parents. Registered friends. Yeah, exactly. And so we all kind of came up together. So I just started writing. And it really came because one of my best friends was getting married at the time. And so, you know, you're a kid in your 20s and, you know, we were in our, like mid-20s at this point. And he was like, yeah, I'm getting married. And he was gonna get married and move up to Northern California. And it was like, what you doing? And you know, you're messing up your mess. Yeah, you're breaking up the group. And, you know, thinking like kids, right? Thinking like 20 year olds. But that was the thing that really kind of got me thinking about our friendship and what it meant to me. And so I just started writing about it with no idea that anyone would ever really do it. It was more like, I just want to get this out just. Cause it's on my mind, it's in me, and I just have to get it out. So I wrote the script. And as I was writing the script, one of the people that I'd met at Sundance was a person named Lynn Auerbach, who was kind of running and helping to run the writers and directors lab that a lot of filmmakers have come through, like Quentin Tarantino and Paul Thomas. Anderson Coogler came through it later, you know, but this was like 1998 or 7 or 8. They had remembered my short film from the festival and they were asking, you know, do you have. We have this program. It's like a writers and director's workshop where you Come in for a couple weeks to Sundance Institute and you'll sort of workshop your script or workshop some scenes from it. And I was probably about a week into my script, and I was like, yeah, I got a script. I was like, yeah, I got something. And they were like, okay, cool. Submit it. Turn it in. And then. So I'm like, now I'm scrambling because I'm like, okay, I gotta write the script. And. And at the time, I was working at the Nike store over Beverly Hills. I was working at the Nike town there. So I'd be slinging my sneakers during the day, and then I would ride my bike because I didn't have a car. Rode my bike home. And then I would write at night. And it was like, my then girlfriend, now wife would be like, sleeping, and I'm minnow, and I'm like, writing in the corner at night on my, like, Apple II or whatever the hell it was.
- [10:56]
Keke Palmer
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- [12:15]
Rick Famuyiwa
So I like Scrambled to get the script in. Turned it in, just got it in on the deadline, and they ended up up taking admitting that film into the lab, and that's where it really sort of took off for me. You Know, I got the. I did the labs and were there for three weeks, and it was incredible experience. Michelle Satter still, you know, to this day, runs the lab. And that's where I met the producers who produced it. It was Ron Yerxa and Albert Berger. And at the time, they were doing a film called Election at Paramount, and with this, you know, sort of new thing called MTV Films. Back when MTV was a thing for the kids out there, there was this.
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Keke Palmer
I love Save the Last Dance.
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Rick Famuyiwa
That was also. Yeah, there was this network called MTV that actually played music videos during the day. That's how we. But they were like, okay, we're all about this youth culture. So they were making films and they did, you know, Election. They did another film called Varsity Blues. And then. So they were doing this project there, and they read mine and they were like, well, we're. We're doing Election there. We actually think that because of the things they're trying to do and your film and where it's set. And I had all these, like. I had all the music cues that were in the movie written into the script because I wanted that to be like, a part of the. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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Keke Palmer
That became one of my favorite songs as well, going on because of that.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Exactly. So.
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Keke Palmer
And that scene.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, so that's what. That's how it happened. So.
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Keke Palmer
And so was Omar Epps and Tay Dix. Would you say that that movie discovered them kind of. I'm not sure of what was.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, I mean, it's funny because, yeah, Omar had, you know, Omar was, like, the most experienced. Cause he had done Juice, you know, and he'd been around.
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Keke Palmer
Was this before lovin basketball or after?
- [14:15]
Rick Famuyiwa
It was lovin'it. Was before love and basketball. So he hadn't, you know, he was doing the most. And kind of had broken, if you will. And so he was, like, the first person that. That came on board you know, once it was, you know, I ended up setting it up at mtv and Paramount, they decided to make it. And Omar had actually read the script because we had done a. Like a reading. Like just a script? Yeah, like a table read, script read at this spot called the Jazz Bakery. So we did it there, and, like, we sent it to Omar and. And he responded to the script. And so he came and did the reading with a bunch of, you know, actors from L. A. He had moved out here. He was from New York, but he, like, moved out to L. A. And so he read it and loved the script and was just like, man, this is like me and my boys and even though I grew up, you know, east coast, this is just like us. And so. So he was like the first piece that came in and then the next one was Tay. And he was.
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Keke Palmer
He's so funny.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, he was funny.
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Keke Palmer
I'm a maker. Booty Jiggle dud. Like, why? Why?
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Rick Famuyiwa
That was straight improv. That was straight improv.
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Keke Palmer
So good.
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Rick Famuyiwa
He was, you know, he's hilarious. And you know, he was coming off Rent. You know, he was in the.
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Keke Palmer
Which is so amazing to me that he's that kind of actor where it's like he gives you totally Broadway theater and then he can jump right into this stuff. Like, I just. I mean, it's brilliant.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah. No, so he had just been in Rent, just moved out to la and then he was kind of taking meetings and everyone was like, okay, you gotta meet this guy. Taye Diggs, theater actor. He's coming up, you know. Definitely. And so we had like a meeting. It was funny. Cause I remember we're both like broke, right? So we went to meet at this spot, like on Pico. It was like a deli. And so I'm like pulling up, my girl drops me off. And then he pulls up in this like, beat up. And his girlfriend Idina Menzel at the time is like driving. Yeah. So Adina's driving this beat up car, right? Drops off Tay and is like, all right, see you later.
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Keke Palmer
I'm like, her dropping him off to the Wood audition.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, so we meet and I'm like, hey, what's up? You know, just my girl, Dina. Hey, what's up? We both in the play. Come on.
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Keke Palmer
We both in the play.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, yeah, we're both in the play. And that's where they met. Exactly. And so we just really hit it off. Cause he was just funny. And again, he was like, you know, he grew up upstate New York and was like. Felt like sometimes he was like the little outcast. And so again, he could relate to these kids. So he came in and auditioned and he was the next one to come off. And then Richard had also been sort of starting to. I forget what films he was in before, but I just liked him. Cause one, he was tall and he had to play like the athlete and Funn and like a real actor's actor. So, you know, but he sounded like Denzel, so it was kind of like.
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Keke Palmer
And you had my guy playing the younger Omar character who had been in Fresh with Samuel Jackson. He's a great actor. He did the Corner as well.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Exactly. So that's how I knew Sean Nelson and he came. And so he came on around the same time and again I'd seen Fresh and was a huge fan of that film. And it's, you know, and you know, because you grew up young actor, it's tough to find. It is young actors who, you know, no offense, haven't kind of been polluted by the whole child actor thing. And especially out here because so many people want to get on and commercials and Disney and different things. And so there's like a thing I always find sometimes it's like an over.
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Keke Palmer
Self awareness of a child.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, yeah.
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Keke Palmer
As opposed to like being grounded in being an actor.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah. And I think there's always like, well, how do I be a child actor? And so he was a very, you know, he was very natural and real and. And you know, and grew up east coast doing like a lot of independent cinema. And so I think he had a certain sensibility that I really liked and I knew as a young actor he'd be able to carry it because he would have to be like the heart of the, of the film. So.
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Keke Palmer
And he absolutely was the heart of the film. I'm curious if there are any other actors that we know that tried to play some of those.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Man, it's. It's crazy, man, because I was like, I got to pull out like all the audition tapes because it's like the journey to this. So, you know, one of the younger roles Usher came in to, he was going to play the young Roland and so.
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Keke Palmer
The young Tedious.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so he wasn't Usher yet. So he was kinda, you know, he had his music, he was on and so he came in and read and was really good. He was great and like really close to casting him, but I think he was touring or something happened.
- [19:20]
Keke Palmer
That almost being Roland is the same baby Roland.
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Rick Famuyiwa
It's crazy. So, you know, I always thinking like, you know how fate happens in certain things. But he came in and read, um, you know, Terrence Howard was another one who was, you know, I really loved and came in and read. But again, I think there was some schedule things.
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Keke Palmer
Who was he maybe going to be?
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Rick Famuyiwa
He was gonna be the older Roland. Yeah, he was gonna be the older Roland.
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Keke Palmer
Wow.
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Rick Famuyiwa
He had come in. I love Tay. And so I just, again, it was like, he's the guy. So I, you know. And then Jamie Foxx was another one who came in too, which was crazy. Cause it was like, I was like, I gotta find these audition tapes. Cause you know. Cause they all came in when we were doing, like, the chemistry reads and trying to get everyone together.
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Keke Palmer
That.
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Rick Famuyiwa
And it's funny because Jamie was, you know, just starting to do his thing. He had, like, his. You know, he had Jimmy Foxx on. No, this was before. Cause he was doing. I think he was. I want to see.
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Keke Palmer
On tour. Doing stand up.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, he was on tour. He might have been coming off Living Color, but he was starting to do his touring. And I went to one of his shows, and it was incredible. Cause he was doing this whole Jamie thing where it was funny. He was doing music. I was like, man, this dude's. And so he came in and read, and again, you know, loved him. But he was touring.
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Keke Palmer
And was he for Roland as well?
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah. So Roland was heated, right? Roland was like, yeah, that roller bar.
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Keke Palmer
But Roland was so good and so funny. Tay playing drunk. I mean, people don't know with actors, it's very hard to play drunk. And the whole movie he's drunk. Maybe until the ending of it, where he finally comes to. But we ain't. Oh, boy.
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Rick Famuyiwa
What?
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Keke Palmer
You got grits in your hands? Ain't nobody cooking you breakfast. Like, the whole thing is so funny, and it has so much heart.
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Rick Famuyiwa
No. And again, it's one of those things where you go, there's all these folks. But that was Tay's role, And you see someone in it, and you kind of go, he's the person. And I can't see. You can't see anybody else. And so. And he was. Again, he's such a natural. And again, comedy's hard. It is. And, yeah, playing drunk is hard. And trying to do all that while staying grounded and real is a challenge. And he has such a way. He's like Cary Grant. You know, he's got this kind of elegance about him. So even when he's doing, you know, terrible shit, it's like, you know, he's like, you still root for him. Cause he's handsome and he's, like, charming. And he's like. He's like, always. He's like that knucklehead that you just can't ever be mad at.
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Keke Palmer
So Cary Grant and just elegance. Like black, white, or otherwise. I think your films. And for me, the introduction of the Wood, it was literally classic black cinema. And I'll even take the black out. It's just classic American cinema.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Interesting.
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Keke Palmer
Like, it shows our world, our life and our culture. Yes. Our perspective, seeing things from our eyes. But it's just done in such a way that everyone can relate to. I remember I went and seen it recently at the Rooftop Cinema.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, I heard about that. Yeah.
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Keke Palmer
Everybody came out, and we all were knowing the word that was the most. And that's what storytelling and art for me is about, bringing the community together, making us all laugh, find joy, feel things. Oh, my gosh. Being 17, man, I remember that's when everything was, you know, all of that stuff for you, the success of that film over years and over time. What is the gift of that? How do people come to you and speak of that film?
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Rick Famuyiwa
I mean, it's. It's amazing. It's hard to kind of wrap my head around it because I, you know, you. You make this stuff just because it's like, oh, this is what's interesting to me. And. And I hope that people will get into it. And it's. It is one of those films that it really found its audience over time. When it came out, you know, for lots of different reasons, because of how they released films that, you know, with. With black characters back in the day, they just would not go out on lots of screens. Yeah, they would only go into cities, and it was like a fight to get it into different places. So when it initially came out, it did well for the budget, but there was a lot coming out, like Star wars film came out, like that summer and Eyes Wide Shut and American Pie. So there was a lot of stuff that came out around the same time. So it found an audience and had that initial. Like, people saw it, but I think it really kind of stayed and caught on over the years. So at first, you know, I'd be. They'd be like, oh, what do you do for a living? I'd be, oh, yeah, write, direct. And they'll go, what have you done? I'll say, the Wood. And, you know, back in the day, it'd be like. I think I remember seeing that. And now it's like, you know, I'll see, like, someone young. Young dude, and he'll ask me what I'm doing. I'll tell him, and then he'll ask me what I made, and I'll say, yeah, I did the Wood. And then the. On his face, he'll be like, what? What? What? What? You did the wood? I grew up on that. Then he'll say that my dad grew up on that. I'm like, oh, man. I'm like, your dad grew up on it? Okay, I guess I. Oh, my gosh. I guess I'm older.
- [24:41]
Keke Palmer
I don't want to get the quote wrong, but you did say around the time you made the movie, dope that you felt you had moved further and further away from the original voice you discovered with the Wood. I'm curious what you meant by that and if you felt like you got back to it.
- [24:56]
Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, yeah. No, I'm. You know, it's like I was able to make the wood. I was 24 right when I shot that film, and I was two years out of film school, and so I was able to make this film when I was really young, coming out of school. But I. You know, I'm. It's all. At that point, it's instinct. You're not really a filmmaker. You're just trying to find your voice. So I was just. Yeah, I was just trying to make. Do the best I can to get it in the can and make my days and. Come on.
- [25:28]
Keke Palmer
Make my days.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And so it was just me and my heart, and that was kind of what was there. And so then, now it's like, okay, what do you do? How do you make a career out of this? How do you continue to. And that's where, over time, it just becomes. In this business especially, it was a struggle to really find those projects. It took another. After I did the Wood, there were different things that came and different projects, but it took another three, four years to get Brown Sugar off the ground.
- [25:59]
Keke Palmer
And when you mean projects, you mean just like, it takes a minute to be able to tell these kind of day in the life stories.
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Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:08]
Keke Palmer
It blows you away a little bit.
- [26:09]
Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah. Even though the Wood did well, it wasn't like a monster hit. So it wasn't that thing where, like, everyone's like, all right, let's keep doing these. So, you know, and there were folks out there, you know, Malcolm Lee was out there hustling to get, you know, best man. And obviously Gina. You know, Gina Prince Blythewood was doing, you know, got. Loving basketball. So there were films and filmmakers starting to kind of change things, but it was still, like, tough. So there'd be big stretches in between those projects. And so I got to a point, you know, after I'd did Brown Sugar, which was another great success for me, and really. But it was. It took another, you know, I think it was like five, six years till my next project, which was a film called Our Family Wedding, and saw that one too. And it was. And, you know, it was one of those things where you look back and you go, all right, I'm trying to make a film. I'm trying to feed my family and do things to support yourself. You go in with the best intention, saying, I'm gonna take this project, you know? And even though there. There are things, I'm gonna rewrite it, I'm gonna make it work. You know how that is. You feel like you can get that script and you're gonna make it work, and your brilliance of your filmmaking is gonna. It's gonna bring it about, you know? And so I. You know, I did that project and it. And it. And I. I wasn't artistically the thing, at the end of the day, that I really wanted it to be. It came out, it didn't do well. You know, it happens, though. And so it was one of those things where after that, you know, I was in director jail, right? I was like, director jail was hilarious. They locked up and went like, yeah, now. I was like, okay, maybe this guy doesn't have it. So I was at this point, again, kind of like when I was first trying to get the wood made, where I was like, okay, I'm not really doing the thing I want to do. I'm chasing. I'm not really doing the thing. And I think it took getting to a place where I'd had this failure, where I sort of said, okay, again, what is the thing? If you're not thinking about that, you're not thinking about the green light, you're not thinking about the budget, what's the thing you'd want to make? And so I started thinking about the wood again. But really, I started. It came to me. Cause I was like. I was, you know, just kind of surfing, and I saw, like, some YouTube videos from these kids from Englewood called Odd Future, you know? And so they were like.
- [28:48]
Keke Palmer
I mean, yeah, Tyler and them.
- [28:50]
Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, so Tyler and them. And they were putting out these videos, and they were, you know, silly and crazy, riding skateboards, doing stunts and talking shit to each other. And then I looked and I, oh, wait a second. That's Burger King. That's the Burger King. Me and my boys used to hang out. That's where they're shooting their thing. And then I would look and see all these different spots in Inglewood, and it was like, oh, my God. These guys are, like the next generation of us, right? Like, if we were growing up in Inglewood and we had, like, you know, the iPhone, right? This is what we'd.
- [29:23]
Keke Palmer
All these different influences.
- [29:24]
Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, this is what we'd be doing. And so I. I saw that, and now that kind of inspired me. Cause I was like, well, okay, this is interesting that you got now this new group of Kids who are growing up in inglewood, you know, 10, 15 years after us, right? And now they got a completely different perspective on both growing up there and just who they are, Right? You know, and so I was like, okay, this is interesting. Like, what would it be like to go back to Inglewood, but now take that same kind of concept, that coming of age story, but now give it a new point of view. Give it a point of view of the kids that are there now and what they're dealing with. And also just, you know, I loved kind of the spirit of Tyler and this notion that even though I'm growing up here, you know, I'm doing all this stuff that everyone doesn't think a black kid's supposed to be doing, right? And he was doing it anyway with impunity. And him and his friends were just being. And I was like, okay, this is. This is cool. This is something. Cause that's how we were. We were like those little oddballs who were doing stuff like that. But again, we didn't have, like, the same kind of access and platform. You know, we had to go fig. Actually go make a movie, right, Where Tyler could just be on his iPhone, film stuff, put it up, and now he's got, like, a platform. So I was like, all right, I want to do this. I want to kind of revisit the wood for, like, a different generation. And so that's where dope came from. And that's what I meant, where I was like, okay, I need to get back to my voice and the things that, you know, that really speak to me.
- [31:12]
Keke Palmer
So let's talk about my voice. Cause you said something here that I think is really true earlier on, where you were talking about, you know, you don't really know exactly what your voice is in the beginning, right? It's instincts. And everybody else kind of almost knows your voice damn near more than you do. I experienced that even, you know, starting out very young. People seen it. I just felt it. So what would you say? How. How would you articulate what your voice. What Rick's voice is as a filmmaker?
- [31:38]
Rick Famuyiwa
Ooh, man, it's hard. I mean, I don't. Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting because I think more when I talk to people, they tell me stuff, right? And they'll say, oh, I see these patterns, you know, in your. In your films. And I'm like, okay, you know, because I think you're doing your art, and there are things that I think really speak to you, but you're not conscious of it sometimes. And so, again, I grew up watching, like, big Hollywood movies. And so those are the things that influenced me as a. As a kid growing up. And so those stories I've always tried to translate, but I wanted to do it from a perspective that I didn't see on the screen. You know, I could relate to that family in ET Cause, you know, I was raised by a single mom. And so seeing that circumstance was like, okay, this is relatable, but it wasn't a black family up there. And so I always want to be about telling these types of stories, but bringing that perspective that. Not that it's about, you know, it's not that it's about being black per se, but I think being black in America brings a certain perspective to how you see the world and how you see genre and how you see action and how you see comedy. And that's big mainstream filmmaking, but it's just coming from a different point of view. That's right. And it's still. It's still the thing that people can connect to. And I've often found, like, the more specific I get about my experience and that experience, the more people say I relate to it. Even though I go, you couldn't have been a black kid growing up. Cause I've had like, you know, old white ladies come up and say, this film speaks to me. You know, when dope came out and I was like, that's funny to me. But I get it.
- [33:36]
Keke Palmer
It's so classic. It really, really is. So classic. There's a classicness to it. And I mean, I agree with you. Like, there's nothing that I would compare to it. But I could say in my mind, you tell so many brilliant coming of age stories of all angles. No matter if somebody get married, doesn't matter if somebody's a young kid. It doesn't matter if someone's in the Mandalorian. I was very blown away to know that you were doing that because that took the character and story to. I'm also building worlds.
- [34:07]
Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:08]
Keke Palmer
What, was you ready for that? Maybe you was ready for that. How did you feel coming into that? Was it like, oh, my gosh, where do I go? How does this work? Was it innate immediately?
- [34:18]
Rick Famuyiwa
Well, look, that was. It was a dream. I mean, the first film I saw in the movie theater was Star wars, so that was the film that really sparked my imagination, as it did for a ton of people. Right. I'm not the first to say that. So that was always in terms of where I would want to be making and being in that world was always a. Even if when I was starting, it seemed like, how's this ever gonna happen? Like, I said, George Lucas was a big influence. And, you know, I went to USC at. The damn building is called the George Lucas Building, right, that you take your classes. So this was where I wanted to be. And it's funny, like, you know, that whole notion of when you. You know, I've learned that when you really stay true to who you are as an artist, that's when the things happen. You know, you always try to plot and plan. And so it was dope, honestly. That was the film that, you know, Jon Favreau's kids saw Dope and loved it and spoke to him about it and said, you know, you gotta see this movie. So he saw Dope kind of at the urging of his kids and just really responded to it. And so, as you know, when he was putting the show together and sort of thinking about who to bring on to collaborate, this was on the front of his mind. And I had. You know, I had actually met with Lucasfilm and the people over there after Dope as well, because they saw the film and wanted to.
- [35:54]
Keke Palmer
I mean, it was wildly successful.
- [35:55]
Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, no, it was one of those things where, again, it's like, you know, who knew this would be the thing, like, to kind of unlock. And so he was putting it together, and they were like, john would like to meet. We'd like to have a meeting. I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll take a meeting. I'm thinking I'm a fan of his work. And so I sit down. He calls me into his, like, conference room. And in the conference room are, like, the concept art of, like, all this stuff. There's, like, a dude looking like Boba Fett. And I'm watching and, you know, and I'm looking at all these landscapes. And so he starts to talk to me, of course, he talks about the film and how much he loved it and then asked me about Star Wars. I'm like, of course. I'm a huge Star wars geek. And so then he starts to talk about this concept of this show, and he starts to pitch me on the thing that he's doing. And so he talks about the show. He talks about the bounty hunter, and he says, you know, that the final bounty at the end of the pilot is this kid who is 50 years old, but, you know. But, you know, which is that what throws everyone off. But it's. It's this kid. And so I'm like, wow, this is crazy. That this is what you're doing. And so he's like, yeah, I'm a huge fan of yours. He's like, would you like to direct the second one? Because, you know, he's writing in Dave Filoni doing the first. He was like, would you want to do the second one? And I'm like, let me think about that. Let me think about that, John. I'll get back to you. But I was like, hell, yeah, of course. You know, So I didn't. You know, I'm thinking it's like a general meeting. And he's like, offered me. Yeah, he's like, offered me. Those are the best ones to come.
- [37:34]
Keke Palmer
Thank God you had some. Cause I had nothing.
- [37:36]
Rick Famuyiwa
Exactly. So when I jumped into it, you know, it was always my ambition. But I'd never been in a world that big with, you know, that level of visual effects. And so it was an incredible experience because you had John Favreau, who's innovated in so many ways, filmmaking, and is just sort of the dean of all of this stuff. And I felt like I was studying under, like, the dean of huge blockbuster filmmaking and especially in visual effects. So that first season was, you know, a huge learning experience because it was sort of seeing the process of how these films get made.
- [38:19]
Keke Palmer
Yeah.
- [38:19]
Rick Famuyiwa
And that world and how the worlds get built. But then, you know, what was interesting is that after you get past the, like, oh, my God, it's Star wars. And, oh, my God, the budgets and the scale, it still comes down to, you know, story and character. And what made that show work is people could connect to this unlikely father figure who now has to take care of this child. And that's the thing that everybody connected to. And that's the thing that even though it's Star wars, it's like, that's what I like to do, are these sort of human stories, even though the character is not human. Right.
- [39:00]
Keke Palmer
That's right.
- [39:00]
Rick Famuyiwa
But the emotions and the feelings around them are. And so the second episode, while it had, like, these incredible set pieces, was really the episode after he gets the bounty where, you know, it's just about that relationship between the father and this kid, this guy who has. What am I supposed to do with this little thing here? And there was no dialogue for most of the, like, first half of the. Because, like, he gives me this, like, script that's like 12 pages, basically, so. And so I'm sitting like, okay, how am I gonna do this? And then again, full circle, it took me back to film school and watching Chaplin and, you know, and all these films and so, yeah, I've seen it.
- [39:49]
Keke Palmer
Where you the landscape, the look, the couch, where we stop, where we do close upon the eyes. Baby, this is Hickey Paul. Maybe. Okay, so I know y'all caught last night's premiere of the Bachelor, right? Didn't I tell you there'd be a quiz? Look, it's fine. Because if you didn't, I'll let you hop on over to Hulu to get caught up. Now that that's out of the way, didn't I tell y'all that man was fine and genuine and kind hearted and really sweet. And did I mention fine? This is the sort of television that I live for. The romance, the drama. Watching all these beautiful people gallivant and cohort all over the mansion. Ugh, my heart fluttering just thinking about it. Will Grant choose Savannah, the blonde bombshell from Virginia? Or Kelsey, the gorgeous goddess from Brooklyn? Or any of the other beautiful and intelligent women vying for his love? Y'all know I have no horse in this race, but I am locked in. Listen, if there was ever a time for a wine fueled watch party with the besties. It's Mondays at 8, 7 Central, darling. New episodes of the Bachelor air every Monday at 8, 7 Central on ABC. And as always, you can choose to stream it on Hulu too. Now, where's my rose?
- [41:05]
Rick Famuyiwa
And I want to throw in a little dope fun fact that people may not know.
- [41:09]
Keke Palmer
Please step. Go.
- [41:10]
Rick Famuyiwa
Well, how we met exactly?
- [41:14]
Keke Palmer
We met for dope.
- [41:15]
Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah.
- [41:15]
Keke Palmer
Yep. We sure did.
- [41:17]
Rick Famuyiwa
There was a young woman who was supposed to play the role of Diggy.
- [41:20]
Keke Palmer
Yep.
- [41:23]
Rick Famuyiwa
And you read the script and we met on that role. And you were supposed to play that role. And then you got this incredible opportunity. I want to say the talk show was starting or something. That's what it was. And it was like. And you hit me and you were like, I can't do it. My schedule. I gotta go do the show. You know, so it was just.
- [41:46]
Keke Palmer
I'm gonna find out what.
- [41:47]
Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah. I wanted, but it was like. But it's one of those things where. Again, it's like.
- [41:51]
Keke Palmer
And that's why I need to do something with you.
- [41:54]
Rick Famuyiwa
We're to. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. I've been waiting 10 years.
- [41:57]
Keke Palmer
Me too.
- [42:00]
Rick Famuyiwa
I've been waiting 10 years. So. So anyway, I'll let. I just want to. That's why this was such a great full circle because it's. It's. What you've been doing since then has just been incredible to see. So, you know, so when you were like, hey, do you want to do this? I was like, of course. Of course.
- [42:17]
Keke Palmer
Well, you've always been such a huge inspiration to me for everything that you. You've said. I feel like you changed everything. When I look at films that include us, but again, not just, like, across the board. Yeah, it's. They're brilliant films.
- [42:33]
Rick Famuyiwa
Wow. Thank you so much.
- [42:35]
Keke Palmer
And you may be doing Uptown Saturday.
- [42:38]
Rick Famuyiwa
Oh, my gosh. I mean that.
- [42:41]
Keke Palmer
I saw that.
- [42:42]
Rick Famuyiwa
I mean that.
- [42:43]
Keke Palmer
Watching that.
- [42:43]
Rick Famuyiwa
Let's do it again. That was something. I don't know what the status is now, but. Yeah, that's one of those. Where it's been. We're trying to make that. Yeah, we're trying to make that thing happen.
- [42:56]
Keke Palmer
I saw. I had Kevin Hart on that. I think him and Marlon Wayans would be sick. That's just me throwing my bid in. What I would be thinking about, well, put it out.
- [43:03]
Rick Famuyiwa
Put it out there in the universe. But it's like, yeah. So it's. You know. You know how it is. It's hard. It is to get these things together. And now we're at this place where studios are trying to figure out what they're doing. But that was. Yeah, that was a film again. In film school, I watched that movie and all three of them. And it was, again, one of those. That really influenced me. Cause it was like, oh, okay, here's, you know, Sidney doing this. Yeah. And Bill doing this stuff. Bill. Bill. You know, I mean, you know, Bill, it's like, I know you gotta do that now. Like, you gotta be like, yes. Yeah.
- [43:42]
Keke Palmer
But the movie was.
- [43:43]
Rick Famuyiwa
But the movie.
- [43:43]
Keke Palmer
And I feel like it was something. When I saw you doing that, to me, it felt like a perfect match. So I was like, oh, yeah, I could see that. So, you know, we see if it happens. People always think I'm assist act three. I ain't got a script yet. So it's the same vibe. You know what I mean? But I hope one day.
- [43:57]
Rick Famuyiwa
Me too.
- [43:58]
Keke Palmer
The last question goes into. And last question leading into the game, I will say, has something to do kind of with what you said. Well, once you said, make it under 10 million, put this much into marketing, make 25 to 35 million dollars, and will walk away with profitable films. As long as you can deliver scripts that are under 10 million with no effects that you can shoot in 30 days and get back X amount. I think you'll always have a steady stream of a certain kind of film, kind of your breakdown of what it is to make a film, probably especially As a black creative trying to get something done. Do you still think it's that way? I know for me, I think it is, yeah.
- [44:36]
Rick Famuyiwa
I mean, I think. And that's part of the. The economics of film and filmmaking, which are wrong. Right. And I, and I. And I think it's. It's been proven wrong time and time again, but it's always the. The safe place when it comes to. To films that, you know, I guess are called niche, but they're not right. You know, at the end of the day, these are all mainstream stories and. And the reality is we're in a world both in terms of our own country, both in terms of what's happening globally that's, you know, culturally and ethnically and racially diverse. Right. And so the idea that, you know, these films should be made at a certain budget and a certain price because they only reach a certain audience is wrong and broken. But, yeah, that's always the challenge. And that was the challenge on, I think, almost any film I've tried to make.
- [45:32]
Keke Palmer
Me too.
- [45:32]
Rick Famuyiwa
Even still to this day. Yeah. Because what happens is okay for us, you know, and, you know, especially when you have experience and you've worked a lot and you know what it takes, as you do, and you say, okay, I know this is what the budget needs to be. I know this is how we need to support it. And it doesn't matter because there's a certain box that it gets put into. And so I think there's been progress in breaking that to some degree, but I think. I think that's still a challenge. You know, you have to make big bets on creative people and say, I believe in an idea and then go do it. We work in a town where you have to show. Okay, so, yeah, Jordan Peele, you showed this. So now we'll, you know, we'll give you a little more money. No, seriously, still won't give you as much as. But yeah, you know, but it's still.
- [46:23]
Keke Palmer
It's true.
- [46:24]
Rick Famuyiwa
But I think that's the thing that has always been the struggle. But I think what the business has to understand is that if it's going to survive, it can't continue to think that way because then now you are making niche movies. If you're making the same thing with the same leads in the same places over and over again. And I think there's. Part of what we're dealing with in the town is people are tired of that. They want to see new things and they. And that's going to come. Like I was saying from Just bringing different perspectives to these worlds. That's what happened in Mandalorian by bringing, you know, me into the world or Deborah Chow or Lee Isaac Chung. You know, there are people who come into these worlds and bring their own points of view.
- [47:07]
Keke Palmer
And like you said, just great filmmakers.
- [47:10]
Rick Famuyiwa
Yes, great filmmakers.
- [47:11]
Keke Palmer
That's it. It doesn't have to be, you know, great filmmakers with particular perspectives, but let's stop over focusing on the things that shouldn't matter.
- [47:18]
Rick Famuyiwa
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
- [47:20]
Keke Palmer
Make it niche somehow. Okay. Obviously, I've really enjoyed chatting with you, and I could literally talk to you forever.
- [47:27]
Rick Famuyiwa
It's been great. It's been fun.
- [47:29]
Keke Palmer
I mean, you're so amazing. Now, I always play a game with my guests before they leave.
- [47:32]
Rick Famuyiwa
Okay.
- [47:33]
Keke Palmer
This one's called Quickies with Keke. Basically, I'll just ask you a list of rapid fire questions.
- [47:39]
Rick Famuyiwa
Okay.
- [47:39]
Keke Palmer
And you tell me which you prefer. Sound good?
- [47:41]
Rick Famuyiwa
All right, let's see. Let's see what you got.
- [47:45]
Keke Palmer
Stream it on Netflix or premiere in theaters.
- [47:48]
Rick Famuyiwa
Theaters.
- [47:49]
Keke Palmer
Creative freedom or box office success?
- [47:52]
Rick Famuyiwa
Creative freedom.
- [47:54]
Keke Palmer
Sacrifice sleep for creativity or sacrifice creativity for balance.
- [47:59]
Rick Famuyiwa
Ooh, ooh. Creativity for balance. Gotta have balance. Yes. Or that doesn't happen.
- [48:07]
Keke Palmer
Okay. Focus on telling black stories or explore universal themes beyond race. I know this.
- [48:13]
Rick Famuyiwa
Think the latter. But it's all.
- [48:14]
Keke Palmer
Yeah, universal themes.
- [48:16]
Rick Famuyiwa
But it's all universal. It's all universal.
- [48:18]
Keke Palmer
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It is. Work with an unknown actor or a list stars.
- [48:25]
Rick Famuyiwa
Unknown actor.
- [48:26]
Keke Palmer
Yeah, I knew that. I mean, yeah, I knew that. I knew that.
- [48:29]
Rick Famuyiwa
I love. I love my stars, but, yeah, I love that. You know, the energy of working with new. New talent and seeing them grow. So, yeah, that. Definitely that.
- [48:40]
Keke Palmer
Well, I love you, Rick. We got to do this on set sometime. You let me know whatever you got going on again.
- [48:45]
Rick Famuyiwa
Same, same. I mean, I've been waiting, like I said, 10 years. Tell her yes.
- [48:52]
Keke Palmer
I'm so glad we got into this.
- [48:53]
Rick Famuyiwa
Oh, yes, yes.
- [48:57]
Keke Palmer
Rick drops so much wisdom that I almost can't take it. Okay. I think my biggest takeaway would be that finding your creative voice is not just about telling your own story. It's about listening to your heart. Listen to your heart, your gut and your brain. And being what? Fearless. And drawing from whatever influences speak to you and taking on whatever projects you feel compelled to. We're in a position to shape the culture like never before. So stay bold in your creativity. And I'll be back next week because you know, it's your girl. Baby, this is. This is Kiki, baby. This is Keke Palmer. Yeah, enjoy. Baby. This is Keke Palmer on the Wondery app, wherever you get your podcasts and now on YouTube where you can watch full episodes. Subscribe to the wondery channel on YouTube and don't miss any episodes you can listen to Baby this is Keke Palmer early and ad free on Wondery. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Baby this is Keke Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Seagal is our post producer. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer for Team Kiki. My producer is Sharon Palmer. For Wondery. Our managing producer is Olivia Fonte. Our producer is Tristan McNeil. Senior producers are Lizzie Bassett and Candice Manriquez. RIN Our executive producers are Dave Easton and Marshall Louis.