← Baby, this is Keke Palmer
Baby, this is Keke Palmer
Full-Circle Besties: From Nickelodeon to 'Just Keke' with Tayla Parx
01:06:26
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- [00:06]
A
My guest today is a hitmaker, a visionary, and one of my oldest friends. We've been tight since we were kids. We came up on True Jackson VP together and now she's a Grammy nominated songwriter for the biggest artist in the world, from Ariana Grande to Janelle Monae and Panic at the Disco. And she just executive produced my album, Just Keke. I'm talking about the one and only Tayla Parks, baby. This is Keke Palmer. No matter what we doing in the car, just chilling pop on Amazon music, sit back and listen. Life, love, sex, science, covering it all, especially the bad. Cause money always evolved no matter what it is, we gonna make it make sense? Nothing else to do but kick it with the homies and kings. So grab you a drink and a snack, you enjoy and get into the vibe that only ones you know it's your girl. This is Kiki, baby.
- [00:56]
B
This is Kiki Palma. Yeah.
- [01:02]
A
Before the holiday rush kicks in, I'm partnering with Airbnb to help you plan that perfect autumn escape from dreamy mountain retreats to spacious homes. Perfect for gathering with friends and family. Airbnb has amazing spaces for every kind of getaway. Now let's get into it.
- [01:21]
B
Taylor.
- [01:22]
A
Taylor Parks in the house. Yo. It's so funny because you were just talking about, like, it is very weird that we're here in this, you know, host, you know, guest show type thing, because damn, girl, I've known you for 22 years. Yeah.
- [01:37]
B
I literally came into the building, was like, oh, oh, it's. Oh, man, we out here. We ain't in Altadena and Pomona no more.
- [01:45]
A
Oh, my gosh. Yes. Altadena, 626 Pasadena. We love you. And Pomona 909 was good. Oh, my gosh, I remember those drives. And we'd be going out there to have the cookouts. Y' all coming over there. Larry cooking, us going over there. Damon, Teresa cooking.
- [02:01]
B
Yep. Yep.
- [02:01]
A
It is so amazing to see how far we've come. Sometimes I feel like I have to pinch myself because wow.
- [02:06]
B
Yeah. And it's not to see these moments where you get with somebody who's literally been with you through all of them. They're just like, oh, this is crazy.
- [02:13]
A
It is so crazy. We about to get into all that. But first, I got to get into your pre show pull up questions because I'm trying to see where your head space is at. So today I'm giving country with a side of which is you all day, every day, Texas girly. But then also because you live in Nashville now, which Was so crazy to me. I mean, you live in a lot of places, but Nashville is like, you really started to make it your main home home. So that country is definitely coming through.
- [02:36]
B
Absolutely.
- [02:37]
A
Today's mood. In one word, as always. Silly. What did you listen to on the ride here? Olivia Dean.
- [02:45]
B
Yes. So good.
- [02:47]
A
And then who's this nice to each other? Oh, that's the name of that song. Yeah.
- [02:50]
B
Yeah. So, Olivia Dean.
- [02:51]
A
I'm actually not familiar with her.
- [02:52]
B
Really? Really dope. Killing it. Check out the project. Well, each project.
- [02:57]
A
What type of genre is it?
- [02:58]
B
I would say that it's like. It's R and B. It's very. Like, sometimes she has, like, uptempo moments, but I feel like it's more like lo fi R and B vibes.
- [03:07]
A
Lo fi R and B. And the names in the genre always get me. Now we're in the lo fi.
- [03:11]
B
Exactly.
- [03:11]
A
I gotta figure out what that means. Okay. One thing that instantly makes you laugh. My goats. Yeah. Because I often brag about the fact that you have, like, a farm. You know, like, I often brag. I'm like, yeah, My best friend, she has a farm in Nashville. She, like, grows her own stuff. She has eggs. She has a whole deal. So, like, you have goats. Please tell us everything that you have.
- [03:29]
B
I have goats, chickens, ducks, sheep, pigs, and then dogs and some barn cats.
- [03:38]
A
And it's so crazy because I remember when this started to begin at your other house in la, where you were just getting into the plant mom thing. You was growing everything. Growing everything. And I was like, okay, she's really into this nature. And you always have been into nature. We both love being outside, but you really love learning about the nature type of stuff. So the fact that you have a farm now, I feel like it is the perfect evolution of Taylor from when we was kids.
- [04:00]
B
Makes a lot of sense.
- [04:01]
A
It makes a lot of sense. Okay, and then last screenshot on your phone. And do not cheat. Cause if you were cussing somebody out, that's fine. Tell us who it was.
- [04:10]
B
Well, my last screenshot was me basically telling the head of a label. I was like, I don't do more than three sessions back to back with strangers. I don't know what's going on. Like, if we do. Like, if we like each other, then we can talk about getting more on the books. But, like, doing three and five days, and then I'm trapped. Mm. Mm.
- [04:29]
A
That is so. First of all, I live for the Virgo. I live for the advocacy. I live for you telling the label man, how you doing?
- [04:35]
B
I'm like, please. I'm like, look, this is just what I wanna do on. I just don't wanna be devastated for five days just in case we don't like vibe creatively.
- [04:43]
A
I really do wanna get into that with you because I think I've seen your journey in the industry from acting, music, I mean, everything you do. We're both multi hyphenates, but I remember early on in the music industry, you going to the studio real late, working, you teaching yourself how to engineer, teaching yourself how to produce. And then now you're at. You can advocate and say, you know, look, this is how I run things. But what was it like getting there, you know, because I don't think people realize how it really is impressive to me because you really did so much of it on your own.
- [05:11]
B
Mm. Mm. Yeah, I think, I mean, you know, like growing up, like we didn't have family in the entertainment industry, it wasn't like, oh, let me just call up my cousin and he's gonna get you to this thing. It was literally us deciding to move here. And then whatever connections you make from there, that's what you make and we'll see what you make of it. But all of a sudden it was just like, you know, it would be like a mutual friend, like me and Leon meeting each other.
- [05:35]
A
Oh, my gosh. Leon Thomas, period.
- [05:37]
B
Yeah. You literally told me, you were like, I have somebody that you're gonna love him. And before I was even on Victorious, even a little bit, it was like we had just known each other because you told me that I would always love him. So it's so interesting because then we end up learning how to like get engineer and do all this stuff over ichat. Remember? That was the whole thing, girl.
- [05:57]
A
I remember you'll be at the house singing, having me redo. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [06:02]
B
I forgot. We remade that.
- [06:04]
A
We remade that song. Cause you knew how to do the stuff and you were so even that early on. Cause I remember it would be you, it would be my Shawn, it would be Tori Kelly. Every other day I feel like you were like going to the house, working with them.
- [06:17]
B
And I mean, we were all in the ie.
- [06:18]
A
All in the ie. I literally remember that. I'd be like, what you doing today, Taylor? You're like, oh, I'm just going there, we're gonna produce a track. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
- [06:24]
B
Yeah.
- [06:24]
A
And that was like the early early. But then you moved closer to the city and I mean, you would be in the studio with Baby Face, you and Leon would Be in the studio with Babyface. You were like, what, 18, 17, 18 at that time?
- [06:34]
B
Yes, 17, 18.
- [06:35]
A
And it's so cool also to see all the different ways that you've moved through music. Because your first love, like most of us, R and B, so. But you've dominated so many different. I mean, when I think about High Hopes with Panic at the Disco. Right?
- [06:49]
B
Yeah.
- [06:49]
A
And then I think about, we're talking about pop, Fifth Harmony, Ariana Grande. What was your journey like with figuring out that you don't have to stay in one lane as a writer? Cause I remember that being a big thing for you. Like, don't box me. I want to do music with whoever and anybody.
- [07:05]
B
After a while, I started to understand, oh, these people want me to be only this. And it first started off with just because that's just the assumption that they're making of me. You know, I'm black, I'm from Texas. You know, I'm walking in a room with a little swoop, swoop. You know what I'm saying? I'm chilling with it. You know what I'm saying? But. So they immediately were like, oh, this is what you. But then I started to realize, oh, even down to the simple, like, just history of understanding why certain, like, where rhythm and blues radio comes from. And even if it was a song covered by a black artist, it was said that it was a completely different genre. And I felt like a lot of that came from because the different money in both worlds, it's like, no, you as a black person can't do one of the highest grossing, like, genres, which, it could be country, it could be pop, it could be anything. And now we're, at the time in my career and in music period, where pop can be anything. Billboard charts are so diverse. You didn't have, like, you know, as many rap artists on the Billboard Hot 100 or as many R and B on the Billboard Hot 100 as you do now. And so back in the day, it really was just like, oh, no, y' all are trying to. Y' all trying to keep me broke. Like, y' all trying to say, if I only do this only certain type of music, and I only can relate to this type of thing. Meanwhile, they do all kinds of type of music. You know what I'm saying? So I was just like, you know what? That's not for me. And then the other side of it is, I like to always be a student. Like, if I'm writing with the same genre, I'm usually writing with the same people. Then. And that means the same producers and all those other things and saying, hey, I'm gonna do jazz this year gives me an opportunity to collaborate with different kinds of people and to be just always learning.
- [08:46]
A
And it's so interesting what you said, because honestly, pop music really is just popular music and it could be any genre. We see it all the time where it's like, oh, this is a hit and it's hip hop, or this is R and B, whatever. But I am curious of your opinion of why does it seem like sometimes R and B is struggling in that reg? Like, why is the money not being put into it? But then we can have a situation like with Ariana Grande, who definitely, especially early on, was doing straight up R and B and it was deemed as pop or it was not, you know, totally put in that same category that somebody maybe like Summer Walker's album would be put in. What is that about?
- [09:19]
B
I think it's just different industries within one, which is so strange. Even the way that you do your splits in pop and R and B and hip hop are very different.
- [09:29]
A
Wow.
- [09:30]
B
You know, like, there is a such thing as a pop split, which is weird. It's basically just saying, like, you know, kind of what they do in Sweden, everybody splits everything evenly. Even if you were snoring in the back of the room, you get a hell, no.
- [09:43]
A
And that's the part where we went.
- [09:45]
B
We could do a little something. But nah, if you snoring in the back, unless it's giving, you know, oh, damn, he's snoring in the key of what's gonna be the song? Like, I don't know. I'll even give you a benefit of the doubt, you know what I'm saying? But it works just differently. And I do think that that has been used to control black. I do think that it's been used to leave them always looking for some advance or some. So you can never be fully in control of your career.
- [10:12]
A
Oh, my God. So when you look at somebody like Beyonce, for instance, and the statement that she, we're assuming she's subtly making with Cowboy Carter, what do you think that says to the industry and does it help? The reason why I ask is because at the end of the day, she's Beyonce.
- [10:25]
B
Yes.
- [10:25]
A
So is that something that benefits others or does it? Or is it just like Beyonce yet again, showing us she's great, you know?
- [10:33]
B
Well, I mean, I do think I will say that anybody who is going against is making it better for everybody else. Like, I'm in the business Personally of creating some new normals. And so whether or not you believe it's a country album or not, it's the fact that some other black woman looking at that, whether they're 10 years old, you know what I'm saying? Or somebody who's literally young as hell right now, who doesn't even have anybody to look up to in that type of way. It's supposed to be a part of kind of just molding what somebody else could see as the new normal one day. And so I'm like, okay, I really Beyonce for doing that and for. You know, of course it's gonna be a little bit different because, yes, you're Beyonce. But just seeing how hard it was for even Beyonce to get there should show you how hard it is to be accepted into those different communities as a black creator.
- [11:22]
A
You know, there's been a lot of talk around about superstars. We don't have superstars anymore. And, you know, it was so cool. You and I were having a conversation when we were hanging out. I don't know if we were working on just Keke or just. We were kicking it, and you were just saying how superstars exist differently in every era. Like, you know, now you. And when we're thinking about when Rihanna became a superstar, it was like, everybody has to be real. No more than I'm. Everybody's authentic, you know? And the brutal Mars, when he initially first popped, it was about the record. We just need the. You know, I was really loving when you were breaking all that down. And so this question is twofold. The first part is, what do we define a superstar as now? You know, that we're maybe missing? And then two. Are we just not making superstars anymore because artists aren't giving up as much control?
- [12:08]
B
Mm. Very good question. I feel like. Yeah. Like, there's a few. A few answers to that. First of all, are there not enough superstars because they're not giving up enough control? I wouldn't say that, but I do think that back in the day, it used to be like, I'm the radio man, you see, And I'm gonna tell you what you like. I'm gonna tell you what you like. And this is what we're gonna spend the big bucks on. Like, that type of thing. You know what I'm saying? So when you can do that, it's like, of course this person is gonna be the superstar, because all of it's concentrated. You can concentrate. Like, that's. It starts to become a numbers game at that point, because it's like, exactly. We're gonna tell the people what they like. Boom, boom, boom. They're not gonna have an option. I don't think there's enough concentration of eyeballs on one person for that to happen again. Like, we were already done with kind of the age of just blinding superstardom like Michael Jackson. And then I would say, like, the next thing would be a Taylor Swift. I don't know if we'll have another Taylor swift. We have 10 or 20 years to find that out.
- [13:02]
A
Right.
- [13:03]
B
If somebody's going to be so massive and I'm not. That's not to say that we don't have stars. Right. We'll always have stars. But I do think that this might be a good thing, that maybe it's not just five megastars, but there's, you know, 30 or 40 stars, stars doing.
- [13:20]
A
Their thing and having substantial brands. And it's maybe that's what we were always fighting towards, guys. I think that that's where we're headed. Not as we're headed.
- [13:26]
B
Exactly. I think that that's where we're headed with that second part of the question. For sure. For sure.
- [13:32]
A
Yeah. And then what would you define? Like, what is the personality of our super of today?
- [13:37]
B
I would say authentic. Like, and that's really hard to be in this day and age. It really is. Because you know that there's gonna be millions, maybe billions judging you. Right. I think in this day and age, like, it's really hard to be real. And even if you are being real, how do you let the people know that you're being real with all these other things, it always ends up this kind of thing. Too much. Exactly.
- [13:58]
A
And then it's like, they don't trust we super meta. Everybody's acting at themselves. Acting at themselves. Watching you and saying, I'm acting as myself. Like, when does it end?
- [14:06]
B
You know?
- [14:07]
A
And I'm doing it, you know, like, we.
- [14:09]
B
Everybody does. Everybody does because we grew up in the social media age. Like, you know, maybe if we didn't have to think about it.
- [14:16]
A
Introduced me to MySpace. Yes.
- [14:17]
B
We was on being bad. I was like, there's this place on the Internet where kids are coding and we could talk to strangers. Come on.
- [14:26]
A
Yes. Because so Taylor. I was homeschooled when we moved to California. My parents put me in homeschooling, but Taylor's parents let her perform and still go to normal school. And so she would find out about the things that were actually happening in real life. And I would be, like, finding out from her so she Was like, yo, this is called MySpace. And she was like, I think we should check it out. We gotta just lie about our age a little bit. Cause we were, like, 12 and you weren't allowed to be on unless you're 18. When I tell you, she changed my life with MySpace. We created whole communities.
- [14:55]
B
Yeah, we did.
- [14:56]
A
Like, we had boyfriend brothers. Yep.
- [14:58]
B
Yes. Literally, I was like, I'm dating this guy at my school. At my regular school, he got a brother. You down? Like, what are we doing? Literally, we used to literally be like, let's go to the church and hang out with the kids. And then we could go see our boyfriends because our parents will let us, you know, hang out.
- [15:13]
A
And why were we using church exactly? Because they love that church hangout.
- [15:17]
B
Exactly.
- [15:17]
A
Honestly, we had to do what we had to do. And we loved praising God. Either way, okay?
- [15:20]
B
We, like, we love them and we're here with our men as well.
- [15:24]
A
Okay, well, now, this makes me go back to the beginning when we first met at American Juniors. But I wanna go before our meeting. And how you even did American Juniors. Like, I know that. I know this story, but, like, everybody else doesn't know the story, and we need to go back and relive that. So obviously, you always had an incredible voice. But when did Theresa, your mom, decide to really, you know, harness in on it?
- [15:46]
B
When I was in Texas, back in Dallas, Debbie Allen had a. Like, a dance school that was there in Dallas. And I used to have two left feet. And you'll know this because this is how we ended up meeting, actually. So I was. I just started to go with, you know, Devion Dance Academy. And one day she ends up showing up. She's like, okay, I need somebody who could sing, right? And people knew me for the singing kid, they definitely wouldn't be like, she's the dancer. You know what I'm saying? But so she came to school one day to the dance, and was just like, I need a singer. Boom, boom, boom. I ended up singing for her. And then she hit me with that old Demi Allen. She's like, you can sing, but can you dance? You can dance, but can you act? You can act, but are you a multi? Like, she hit me with that, oh.
- [16:30]
A
My gosh, I'm on the floor.
- [16:32]
B
It was giving fame, you know? It was giving fame. And so, you know, she finally ends up meeting my parents and convincing them to, like, let me come out for certain summers, like for a summer camp in LA or something like that. And so that was kind of my introduction to. Whoa. There's other things here. I can do acting plus singing. And at the same time, there's these musicals and all of that stuff. And then the first audition that I ended up leaving anywhere to was American Juniors. And American Juniors was just like, I.
- [17:06]
A
Mean, you know, so American Idol. For those who maybe don't know, American Idol is the parent show to American Juniors. They did American Idol, but there was an age where you had to start, and we were way too young. So then they did American Juniors, and it was this young as six, seven. I mean, I think maybe six or seven was the youngest. You and I were about nine, and she was from Dallas, I was from Chicago, and we both got the golden ticket to California. And I remember we were working. They were doing. It was definitely like a fame school there.
- [17:32]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [17:32]
A
They were like, at 10am you do vocal lessons. At 12pm you do dance. Like, we're nine, literally. But then we were both working on the dance together, and our moms kind of got together, and she was like, yo, you know, Teresa was like, your daughter. Want to go over the dance with my daughter? You think they collaborate? Vibe out. And so we became instantly best friends. I don't even know if I. I guess I knew the word best friend before then, but it was just so innate for us to be like, this is my girl.
- [17:59]
B
We were being bad, like, literally splashing around each other in the water. I'm supposed to be getting ready for a thing. I'm rubbing off my competition number and stuff. Cause I'm over here dangling in a jacuzzi. What are we doing? Unprofessional.
- [18:13]
A
We had a ball. Yeah. We did our thing in a competition. We went back home. You know, there was talk of wild cards. Ultimately, we weren' going back to the show, but our parents stayed in touch. And my mom and your mom both were thinking about, which. It sounds so crazy, but it's so common, the whole packing up where you was and going to California for your child to do a dream.
- [18:34]
B
I feel like we not this fake ass Sharon voice. What is this? You fake. That's not her.
- [18:41]
A
It was thousands of kids that we knew that did this same exact thing. Which also made it scary because it's like, you are one of thousands of kids that are doing this. Yeah, but my mom and her mom were like, well, hey, if you go, you know, we'll go, and we can be each other's family. And so we moved. We both moved to California. Y' all moved to Pomona. We was in Altadena, so we were Very pretty. Pretty close to each other. And we grew up as each other's family.
- [19:06]
B
Absolutely.
- [19:07]
A
And it was just so crazy when I think about it. I will never forget when you end up doing Lil Inez and Hairspray.
- [19:13]
B
That was a weird transition from acting and doing all these acting auditions because I was surrounded by a bunch of acting kids or whatever. I didn't. And then eventually it was like, okay, I started to meet the myshawns and the Leons and stuff, who were like, oh, well, we do. We musicians.
- [19:27]
A
Yeah.
- [19:27]
B
So I was like, okay. But one day I just was like, oh, so I can do acting, but I can do acting behind the scenes. And there's also this music thing that I can do behind the scenes. And I can be on camera or off camera if I want to, or on the record and off the record when I want to. And that changed my whole life after, like, years of being like, okay, maybe I'll do, like the acting thing. But something about it just wasn't the thing for me. I wasn't as passionate about that as I would be eventually with the music.
- [19:57]
A
But it's so interesting because we end up still. I mean, I think we all go through waves with that kind of thing, but we were always meant to be multi hyphenate.
- [20:04]
B
Absolutely.
- [20:04]
A
And I think growing up, especially in the time we did, everybody made us choose or wanted to make us choose. And honestly, you just end up choosing what's coming your way, mostly. Right. If the gig's not there to get you, then I'm doing this. Nah, exactly. You know what I'm saying?
- [20:16]
B
Exactly.
- [20:16]
A
So over time, I think we were able to actually spread our wings and realize that, hey, I can actually do multiple things in this business. I'll never forget the fun we had on True Jackson vp.
- [20:26]
B
Okay.
- [20:27]
A
That was so much fun working on that show together. What do you remember when you think back on that time? Because I remember two things. I remember us having fun. It was the time of our lives. But then I also remember us having some of the most intimate conversations about how much pressure that we felt because we were the ones in our family. You know what I'm saying? Like. Like, we were. They sacrificed a lot.
- [20:49]
B
Absolutely.
- [20:49]
A
For us to be successful, whatever that meant. And it just. It was. I remember I could never express that with anybody else other than you.
- [20:59]
B
Yeah. Because, like. And I think a lot of, like, our mutual friends and stuff like that, it was like they were friends, but they were more competition than they were friends. And so that's a really hard thing. To balance when you're a kid. Balancing. You know, we're all going to City Walk and stuff like that. Everybody's talking about their job that they just booked, or we were all at the same audition, and I'm auditioning for something with, like. That's a very real thing.
- [21:23]
A
I remember us going to Universal Studios and Tyler James pulling out his black card.
- [21:27]
B
It was crazy.
- [21:28]
A
I was like. It was like, God damn. I guess that's network TV money.
- [21:32]
B
Exactly.
- [21:32]
A
Exactly.
- [21:33]
B
It's like, what do we know about a black card, though? Like, it's all so strange. Yes. But I do think that that's a lot to process for kids, especially when you're at. But I was so lucky because me and you had this genuine, genuine friendship that was like, girl, regardless of whether we was, you know, working at Wendy's or doing this thing, we would still be this. And we were able to still, like, support each other. So I definitely think having some of those really, really hard conversations together, I don't know how I would have made it through through this industry, honestly, without having somebody that's real. I mean, I still count the same best friends as the ones that I've had since all those times ago.
- [22:12]
A
I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, you're such a critical part of my life and my evolution of who I am as a person and a professional entertainer. I'll never forget when me and you got into that big fight, and I end up riding rainbow on. So uncool.
- [22:27]
B
It's still my song, guys.
- [22:28]
A
It's still my song, guys. The song is way too dramatic, literally. Like, I try to do this, like, Justin Timberlake breakdown in it, so it goes from one vibe to another vibe. And literally I'm singing a rainbow turn to black and white Every color disappears when you are not here. Why was I that deep?
- [22:44]
B
Cause we was loving.
- [22:46]
A
No, because Taylor would be coming over every time. We always talk about it's the Virgo of September and the Virgo of August thing. Yeah. Whenever Taylor would come over and we would hang out, she would be so chill. Like, she would be. She never, like, acted excited because she always kept it inside. And I would be like, taylor, Taylor, Taylor. And then I was like, I'm tired of every time that you come over, you're not happy to see me. And I would be like, I am.
- [23:06]
B
I'm so excited. When I get into the car, she's like, you got me out here looking still. And I'm like, I'm so excited inside that I literally just Shut down. I'm just like, ah. Like, it just completely. I'm overwhelmed and overstimulated. But you know what? The other thing that I did learn so much about our friendship because, you know, the August, September Virgo thing, but also the way that our parents raised us were so different. I used to go to your house and see so much love and so much compassion, and seeing that outwardly versus my house was kind of like, don't show your emotions. You're gold.
- [23:37]
A
You're this.
- [23:37]
B
You're this. Don't cry. Don't do all of these other things. And our friendship, really, wow. I can be open and I can be honest and vulnerable. And you were one of the few people that I was able to do that with, and I learned how to do that. And I truly do think that outside of the acting background, like, learning that skill, to be able to be like, wow, I'm learning to open up is a part of what transitioned that songwriting in the first place. Because I was like, wow, I have somebody in my life who is telling me, you don't have to hide it all. And if you can imagine, you know, 10 year old Keke, you don't have to keep it all inside.
- [24:13]
A
Tell me what.
- [24:13]
B
What's going on, you know? You know, that was a real, real help. And it's always so funny just thinking back on it. You would be like, I'm tired of this. I'm tired of this. You gonna show me some love.
- [24:26]
A
I still have that prompt to this day.
- [24:29]
B
We used to literally be like, yeah, if I hit you with the love ya instead of the I love you.
- [24:34]
A
Oh, my gosh. Can we please talk about text language? By the way, I just heard that texting is now seen as typewriting to these damn gen out.
- [24:42]
B
What? Yeah, girl. What do they be doing? Voice memos.
- [24:44]
A
They voice memos. They calling. They feel like text.
- [24:47]
B
No, they back to the calling. Yeah, okay, okay.
- [24:50]
A
They kicked up in the bed.
- [24:52]
B
I can't. They're like my little hands can't see. Yeah.
- [24:54]
A
They're like, oh, texting, please. I didn't know that back in the day we had codes. I could send emotion through texts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, if you called me, I was shocked.
- [25:03]
B
It's like, what's going on?
- [25:04]
A
Why would you be ringing my line?
- [25:05]
B
Why would you leave a message? Why would you. Like, our generation is very, like, very different.
- [25:09]
A
And I do feel like they're starting to try to shade the millennials.
- [25:11]
B
But we built this. Yes, we buil.
- [25:13]
A
But y' all wasn't Doing this is. This is dial up history.
- [25:17]
B
Exactly.
- [25:17]
A
You know what I'm saying?
- [25:18]
B
Like, just at the edge when it's like, okay, we still remember that time where it was like you had to hear the little beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, like, happening before the wife.
- [25:26]
A
I don't know what it was like to pay Lilo and stitch on disneyshadow.com.
- [25:28]
B
I don't know. Y' all don't know. They ate Zack and Cody.
- [25:34]
A
Okay, Zack and Cody. I loved all the games, the little Nickelodeon parties and stuff. We used to go to that stuff. We eat down kids choice warts.
- [25:42]
B
Yes. Going off.
- [25:43]
A
It was too fun. Oh, my gosh. Those memories.
- [25:46]
B
Now they're taking it all away. Something's always somebody got a fun. Ruin the fun for somebody.
- [25:53]
A
Okay, so what do I want to go now and get into with us?
- [25:57]
B
I mean, I kind of want to ask you some questions. I mean, you don't got to ask me some questions. I know. This is the baby. This is skin. I know we on your show, but I'm like, I got some questions. Okay, go ahead.
- [26:07]
A
I'm ready. Get a chew with me, baby.
- [26:09]
B
This is Icy Palma. Yeah.
- [26:15]
A
Here's the thing about traveling. While postcards are nice, the real magic happens when you dive into local life. And trust me, there is no better way to unlock a culture's heart than through the kitchen. When food's on the table, we're all speaking the same delicious language. Speaking of which, I've got some exciting news, y'. All. I'm hosting my very own Airbnb original Experience in Chicago on. On December 17th. And it is all about cooking up some love in the kitchen. Imagine this culinary dream. You, me, my pops, and a local chef with mad skills, all in one kitchen, cooking up a storm. We're talking flavors so good, they'll make your taste buds do a happy dance. We're talking delicious recipes, kitchen secrets, and plenty of laughs. We're about to make this kitchen feel like the hottest cooking show in town. And y' all know when my dad and I get together, there is bound to be some entertainment. We might even share our secret ingredient for the perfect comfort food. I don't know about that one. The best part, it's not just about what's cooking in the pots and pans. It's the laughs we'll share, the stories we'll tell, and, yes, the absolutely incredible food we'll devour together. When good people gather in the kitchen, that's where the real magic happens. So Whether you're a kitchen pro or not, this experience is for everyone who loves good food and good company. And trust me, by the end of our time together, you'll feel like a culinary superstar. So if you're ready to roll your sleeves up and join me for some culinary fun, head to airbnb.com kiki to learn more about my Airbnb original experience. Let's make some magic in the kitchen together. This message is brought to you by Apple Pay November has me feeling like a contestant on a cooking competition competition show running through stores, searching for ingredients, trying not to have a meltdown in the spice aisle. And this year I'm hosting Thanksgiving dinner. The pressure is real, but with my iPhone as my wallet, at least the payment part is stress free. You know that moment when you realize you need like 17 different stores to get everything on your list? The fancy market for the turkey, the regular grocery store for basics. The specialty shop for that one specific ingredient your auntie inside insists makes the Mac and cheese perfect. I felt like I was on a scavenger hunt designed by an evil genius. But here's what made my turkey chase less stressful. Every time I spotted that contactless symbol at checkout, I knew I could pay quickly and keep moving. Apple Pay is designed to be secure with face ID built right into my iPhone, so I wasn't worried about using it at every stop. Just a quick tap and I'm off to the next door, still earning all my credit and debit card rewards on every purchase purchase. It's faster and easier than using physical cards or cash. The real moment of gratitude came when I was juggling three bags of groceries and my iPhone started ringing my dad calling to remind me about the specific brand of cornmeal he swears by. As if I could forget after last year's cornbread fiasco. Anyway, with Apple Pay, I didn't have to perform a whole juggling act at the register. Just double click face ID tap and done. No fumbling with cards or dropping bags required. Plus, Apple Pay doesn't keep transaction information that can be tied back to me, so my dad's secret ingredient stays secret. When I realized at 9pm That I forgot the fresh herbs, Apple Pay saved the day again. It's accepted at millions of places worldwide whether I'm shopping in stores, online or in apps. That contactless symbol was like a beacon of hope in my time of culinary crisis. Even if I lost my iPhone, my card information would still be protected between the multiple grocery runs last minute dash for extra butter because there's no such thing as too much butter at Thanksgiving and the emergency cranberry sauce situation. I must have hit six different stores. But with Apple Pay working seamlessly across my Apple devices, each checking was smooth sailing. No digging through my bag, no juggling groceries while trying to wrangle a credit card. Just a quick glance at my iPhone and tap some of my ingredients. I even ordered online because who has time to drive all over town? When I saw that Apple Pay button at checkout, I knew I was in for a smooth, secure transaction without having to enter any card numbers. Say goodbye to typing in payment details while trying to read your aunt's handwritten recipe. Oh, look, hosting Thanksgiving is stressful enough without payment drama. Apple Pay keeps at least one part of the holiday preparations running smoothly. Now if it could just help me figure out how early to start thawing this turkey. Say goodbye to payment hassles and hello to seamless transactions. Pay the app away and keep your holiday preparation stress free terms apply.
- [31:20]
B
I mean, honestly, I'm like, okay, so in all of the different years that you have, you've played a lot of different characters. You know, you've had a lot of work on breaking down the character and their emotions and how they would feel, how they would say something. When it came to this album, were you a little bit scared? Like, about, like, okay, well, what is this version of this?
- [31:43]
A
I was very, very scared actually doing just Kiki and I mean, I know, you know, you know. Cause you were there. I think it's so interesting when I hear you talk about me when I was younger and just like how vulnerable I was and how I was not just expressing myself, but I was embodying what I was expressing. I think as I got older in being so in the public eye, it became so much harder to embody that level of vulnerability. It just was my performance became to be the show and I just kind of almost disconnected from that side because some of it was really hard and heavy to hold. And I think when everything happened that even led up, you know, in my life that led up to me doing the Just Keke album. It was very much a come to Jesus moment of, you know, no more performing strength, you know, just. Just live in it and experience what it is you experience and let it really overwhelm you. And I just remember me, you know, in my mind thinking, if I'm going to do another project again and my art means so much to me, I have to be, I have to be 100% in it and there's no way that I'm gonna be able to do this without Taylor, you know what I'm saying? Because a. Obviously your extraordinary skill, you've done. You have so much success. But then also, you know me, and I was gonna. I knew I would feel safe, but I was very scared. So that's why I was like, I'm only gonna be able to be trusted. I'm not doing this with nobody else but Taylor. And so that's why. That's how I felt going into this album. And I remember that first day. Child girl, that first day was crazy. And again, it was just you being.
- [33:17]
B
Like, let's talk about it the real. Like, I don't want to hear the PR answer. I don't want to hear. I want to hear, we're back 11 again. And I want to hear like, dang, how did you feel about all this crazy that just went down? And how are we going to make sure that we're telling your side of the story? Cause it got a little bit out of control there for a second with everybody else's opinion of how they felt. It all went down. But this was a moment where we were like, oh, let's reclaim it.
- [33:45]
A
It was the most humiliating time of my life.
- [33:47]
B
Yeah.
- [33:48]
A
It was the most humiliating time of my life. It was so out of control.
- [33:57]
B
Yeah.
- [33:57]
A
And I'm a person that really tries to be in control. I'm a person that really has pride in what I represent, you know. Larry and Sharon.
- [34:04]
B
Exactly, girl. Exact.
- [34:06]
A
Larry and Sharon don't do bull. You know, they would stress us out. Go on the citywalk and you act right. Cause they're watching you. Yes. It's like, who's watching me?
- [34:16]
B
Yes, yes.
- [34:16]
A
You know what I mean?
- [34:17]
B
I feel like the world is a young black woman. They always put that there. Like, you can't just be coming any old way.
- [34:23]
A
Yes. And so for me, it's like carrying that weight. And I'm sure everybody, whether they are an entertainer, whoever, as a black person, when you're carrying that kind of weight, it can make it seem like you have to be just so damn perfect and nobody can. You're asking me to be. I mean, there's only one Barack Obama.
- [34:41]
B
You know what I'm saying?
- [34:42]
A
Like, everybody not gonna be exactly Baracking them, you know, like in general, you know, like, you think about the. Every black person that gets to this thing. Everybody wants you to be that. They want you to be perfect.
- [34:53]
B
Yes.
- [34:53]
A
And it's something. It was a burden in my life, you know.
- [34:56]
B
Yeah.
- [34:56]
A
But I still tried to rise at it every. Every step. Y' all raise the bar this way. Guess what? I'm doing this, right? Guess what? I'm doing this. I always did what I had to, but then this happened. And it was not about anything that I had to do. It's about something that I had to face in my life and that I can't control everything and that this is a change. And so I just remember having that conversation with you that led us to Off Script and misunderstood immediately. Two of my favorite tracks on the album, the First Things that we Did. And it was from that conversation where I was just talking and you was just. I mean, how do you do that? You. Cause you don't just do it for me, right? It ain't just cause I'm your best friend. You've done it for multiple albums with Ariana Grande. I mean, the list goes on where you've created these moments for people that encapsulated these moments in their life. But I just remember just telling you and you were just looking and you would say a little word every now and then and I would just keep. I mean, what. How are you able to do that and allow me to be amused to also your gift.
- [35:59]
B
It's so funny because it's like the same thing that you probably have, like when you become a character, right? That is not you at all. I do think that being curious about, like, whoa, this person is having feeling a lot of emotions. And maybe I'm not so good at seeing my emotions like right away, but I'm so curious about other people's and making sure that everybody else is understood. But I do think that there is this curiosity that I have of just listening to somebody's story because I know how it feels to be misunderstood. Right. Not to plug off like I know, but it's the worst feeling in the world. So as a songwriter, my only job here is to make sure that you feel heard. You know what I'm saying?
- [36:42]
A
But you also so skillfully inside of the emotion I expressed, you wove in or it was woven in the narrative within the narrative, which is off script. I'm an actual. You know what I'm saying? So this is. We're talking about two relationships. Not just my relationship with my craft with this guy, but with my audience. Not only did he misunderstand me, but so did you.
- [37:07]
B
Yes, absolutely.
- [37:08]
A
So we're also talking about the parasocial relationship, which is the overarching theme of just Keke as well, where it's like I'm using one relationship to Lead you into another relationship to reflect this relationship.
- [37:22]
B
Absolutely. That's honestly, like, you've got to be able to, as a songwriter, to tie in all of these different moments, because you could also be the person writing the song that gets them read. Like, you know what I'm saying? You don't want to be that person that's like, what was this song happening? You know, when you know you could be a part of it and you have to just. I take so much pride in the fact that this is gonna be somebody's very real emotions now if they get read and it's still real, well, at least we got. You know what I'm saying? And it's real. And I'm gonna make you as likable as possible when we do this, like, little thing, you know, Unless that's not the intention or whatever. But I think that that's the realest thing, like, and so special for me to be a part of is when somebody's like, this is exactly what I was trying to say, you know? So I'm so thankful that you got to feel that as well when working with each other.
- [38:13]
A
Oh, my gosh. I felt it in every. And even on the ones that I had nothing to do with writing wise. I mean, when I think about. Unless it's you, when you turn that on. Because this was at the end of our creating the project, and you were like, I got another one that I want you to hear that I think would be right. And you played that song and you're like, I think it's gonna round it out. And I remember hearing it and immediately. Tears in my eyes. You remember? I remember you. Cause she made you have tears in your eyes. It was one of the girl. One of the most beautiful songs I had ever heard in my life. In a power ballad, we don't get that often, but you still somehow made it feel. How did you know that that was a project that we needed on the album? Because we went through a lot of different phases. We went through the beginning of the love story, you know, with my son's father, to the crash out the building, burning down, the aftermath. But also, we made space for what was.
- [39:07]
B
Mm. Absolutely. I think that especially when you decide to say, first of all, to be this deeply involved in a project and then also co executive producing with you, it's like. Like from track one. I'm trying to see what track 13 is gonna be from track one. I need to understand and make sure that I walk away from this album knowing that people got the full side of you right now. And the other thing that I like to do is when you are 65, 70 years old and you listen back to this particular body of work, I wanted to transport you. I wanted to transport you back to that time and those emotions that you were feeling. And also to see the growth. Like, man, I used to be, you know, going great. This is what I was going through, or I felt like that was the worst time of my. But then three albums later, you feel it like it's. That is what the. The music is supposed to do is kind of be like a. Just a time capsule for you. And so when we were going through it, and especially with. Unless it's you, I was like, there's so many things that came out of, I think just seeing you evolve over years. Like, whole. Whole time, you know, the whole, I don't know, 20 something years has been about your career. Right. And so I knew that you being a parent was gonna change things in a crazy, crazy, crazy way, because I don't know if there's anything outside of your family that you would care more than, you know, than your actual career. That's something that you put all this time and energy in than your child. Right. And so with your child, and then, of course, even just being vulnerable enough to love somebody and let somebody love you, those moments have to be on this album. And regardless of if that love has evolved since then. Right. But it's good to talk about those moments because then you get to know, like, okay, well, this is how we got here. And then the next album, they'll understand what it evolved into, what it didn't. Whatever.
- [41:01]
A
Yes. Because I often say that to people with. Unless it's you. And I do think they get it. Like, it's so true that it captures the risk and the vulnerability, but also the farewell of. It can be what it is, even if it didn't become what it needed to become.
- [41:16]
B
Boom.
- [41:17]
A
You know, And I think that's sometimes difficult, but it's the honor.
- [41:21]
B
Yeah.
- [41:22]
A
You know, of what that means. Oh, my gosh. So when you. When I said, hey, I want you to do this album, what was something that you thought to yourself that you wanted people to know about me through this body of work that maybe only, you know, you've seen or you've known that you would want this project to help them to see about me, I.
- [41:42]
B
Think, personally, the more like, serious and intimate side, because a lot of times, like, you see people and you're like, the gag is. And like all those other things that make you so funny and so you. But there's all of these other things that I love so much about you that they haven't seen, you know, and all of these other things that aren't, you know, a character or a performative thing that I love so much about you that I'm just. People gotta see this. You guys gotta get a load of this. You know, I'm like, hey, guys, do you see all these other amazing things? And so, like, definitely, that was something that I was like, okay, they've got to see these other aspects. And so when you first hit me up about this, I was like, I'm up where we at, where you need me to be, like. And we got it done. And it didn't take that long, honestly. And I love projects that don't feel like work. It felt like a bunch of therapy that, you know, of working through. And I feel like it started off probably. I feel like our first moment started off of your. Your past birthday. We were literally having, like, just the most real conversations. And I truly think that was my 30th birthday.
- [42:56]
A
It was so really crazy.
- [42:59]
B
Yeah.
- [42:59]
A
But amazing, too. It was, like, amazing with y', all, but inside of it was exactly.
- [43:04]
B
Inside of it was like, what the is going on with life?
- [43:07]
A
But I'm with my girl.
- [43:08]
B
Yeah.
- [43:11]
A
Oh, my gosh. Do you have a favorite song? Mine is Misunderstood from the album. I know that's hard, but I mean, I also love and listens you. But Misunderstood is the one I would literally listen to every day. I will over on repeat.
- [43:26]
B
I mean, it's our girl that TikTok.
- [43:29]
A
We'Re gonna get loves exposed.
- [43:32]
B
I'm sorry. Like Expose. The lyrics are just so funny. And I felt like we really gathered up, like, your funny part, your funny aspect. But we being real. Like, we're being funny, but this ain't no joke.
- [43:44]
A
The way that the funny and the silly of my personality is captured Ippiness. Even with the. You was supposed to be my Stadman, like, middle, like Stabman girl. Are you saying you're okay?
- [43:55]
B
Exactly.
- [43:55]
A
Well, now they didn't even clock. Now they ain't even clocked that. Okay. Cause if you stabbing, what does that make me? And the old. Like, the melody of the conversation of that record is so, so, so, so, so, so. But yeah, I mean, obviously exposed too. I mean, even when we get into the, you know, boy, you know, I'm from Chicago. I ain't like these LA hoes. No shade, no shade. I mean, we. It's so much of that Character that I really do feel like. Cause it's how I. It's how I buffer the moment. So it should live in the music, you know? Cause I really am a very serious person. Only people really close to me know that.
- [44:37]
B
Exactly.
- [44:37]
A
Because who wants to burden you with this?
- [44:39]
B
Exactly.
- [44:40]
A
You know what I mean? If I really come to you and talk about the awareness of life and all of it makes no sense, and honestly, we're just gonna live and we're dying. Like, nobody wants me to, you know, you don't want that. So I just buffer it with jokes and stuff like that. So I think it's like. Like it's good to feel that in the music. And I'm so happy that this album I realized when I did the Lauren EP and then when I did the Big Boss project, like, storytelling is me. That's how I. How I do an album, how I do music. It's my own way. And it's not meant to be anything other than Kiki, you know? And that's also like, again, the big statement with the album of just Keke is that reality. And I couldn't have done it without you.
- [45:18]
B
Thanks, man. Well, another person who I feel like you couldn't have done it without, which is I've always wanted to ask you. This is Baby Leo. Baby, this is Ike Palma. Yeah.
- [45:32]
A
Y' all know your girl is busy hosting my podcast, memorizing my scripts, and running after my little one. Breaking through this busy season requires equipment that's working as smart as I am am. And that's why I'm obsessed with the new Peloton Cross training tread. Plus, it's cross training reimagined with features designed to help you reach your goals effortlessly. Giving personal trainer meets tech genius meets motivation station. Listen, this thing is so smart. Peloton IQ provides intelligent strength coaching. Watching my every move in the best way possible. The movement tracking camera counts my robot reps, corrects my form, and suggests weights that'll challenge me at the exact right moment, helping me achieve more in less time. And don't even get me started about the swivel screen situation, because it's everything. One minute, I'm conquering a 45 minute run, then with one smooth spin, I'm flowing into a five minute stretch. The personalized plans, though, that's the real showstopper. Peloton IQ creates these custom workout plans that have me feeling like the main character in my own fitness journey. Matching you with instructors who get your whole vibe, whether you need that extra push or just some real Talk motivation. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push, and go. Explore the new peloton cross training tread plus@1peloton.com.
- [46:59]
B
How do you feel like your creative, I don't know, explorations and journey and stuff has changed since becoming a mother.
- [47:09]
A
Leo's made me much braver. I thought I was brave before, you know, I think most people would feel like, you know, yeah, I'm courageous, you know, but there's been times where I haven't been for myself. I've been courageous for others, but I haven't always been courageous for myself.
- [47:27]
B
I love you so much.
- [47:35]
A
You know, a lot of times, what kept me going was what I'm doing for my mom and dad, what I'm doing for the twins, you know, what I'm doing for my family. That's what gave me courage. But when it came to being able to speak up for what I wanted, I never could do it, you know? But when Leo came around. Yeah. Leo made me feel like I could do anything for me.
- [48:05]
B
Mm.
- [48:06]
A
And that's different. That really is different. Because it's like, when you're the kind of person that is always like, you know, your identity is based off giving.
- [48:17]
B
Yeah.
- [48:18]
A
You know, it's outward. It can be difficult to understand how to make that twist and transition. But children are always going to be. My mom says that all the time. You know, children are our gifts. They telling us what we need to know and what we are meant to truly be. And Leo showed me that I could do it for me, that I could make the hard choices, that I could say no to others, to say yes to myself.
- [48:39]
B
Come on.
- [48:40]
A
That I could have boundaries. Because Leo, when he doesn't want it, he's like, bye, girl.
- [48:43]
B
And I love it. I love it. I'm like. When little Leo was like, girl, you ain't been around seven months. I don't even know you anymore.
- [48:50]
A
I'm like.
- [48:50]
B
And you have every right to feel that way. Look, even about me, even about your tt.
- [48:54]
A
But he loves every time you come in with me.
- [48:56]
B
I know, I know. I'm like, he got.
- [48:57]
A
Because you be always giving a little gift, too. You the rich auntie.
- [49:00]
B
Exactly. I'm like, asking him about the cool line. No, but I love that. And it's been so amazing and inspiring just seeing, like, you know, when you've been that same way since you were so freaking young, and then you're able to make that transition and making that transition for your son and with your son, it's been so amazing to see.
- [49:23]
A
And it's crazy you bring it up. Cause I just need everybody to know you were right there when he was born.
- [49:27]
B
Yes.
- [49:28]
A
You're putting up his whole bassinet, washing.
- [49:32]
B
His little clothes, making sure it was organized, getting his room ready.
- [49:36]
A
You came right there in Connecticut. He was right there. You and Nora did everything. Showing me, doing videos the whole way while I'm up in there. Can't feel my legs.
- [49:45]
B
Yeah.
- [49:46]
A
I didn't like that. But I was like, I don't watch every damn minute.
- [49:49]
B
I didn't like you in the hospital part. I was like, okay, now make sure, my friend good back there.
- [49:53]
A
You know, it was so amazing having you.
- [49:56]
B
Yeah.
- [49:57]
A
So I want to get into you. Cause obviously, growing up for us, some of those big writers that people would often, even as early on in your career, when you first started writing, they would be comparing you to Esther Dean or to the Money Longs. And I'm curious if you didn't get. If you ever got a chance to talk to those women or if they were ever any mentors to you at any point or who kind of supported you on your journey of becoming who you are in the music industry.
- [50:20]
B
Man, so many people. Because I always say, actually, yeah, like, when it comes to black women doing pop music and other genres, there's not that many people to look up to. Actually, there is estherden and there's Money Long and then a few others that I'm probably not thinking of right now. But when you start to get into those names of, like, one of four black women have ever done a country number one, and one of eight have done rock and roll number one, it's not that many people to look around. And I can say that both Esther and Money Long have been so inspiring. So when it came to. I felt like I was running into, like, I was procuring a lot of the opportunities for myself. But there was always some guy wanting to come in and say, like, okay, I want 20% of everything. Everything. That's the pimp language. Exactly. Exactly. I'm like, I just want you to get a percentage of the things that you bring in, you know, or whatever. It just depends on that. Like, I'm not asking for anything crazy. And so I went to. I both asked Neo and Esther Dean these questions because I knew that they would understand. I was like, do you think I should just say it? Because this is just the way that the industry has been. Boom. And they were like, nope, you stick with you. You stick with your guns. And I was like, okay. So if these other Writers can do it. I can do it. So that's what the conversation that I had with them and then with Priscilla or Money Long, seeing somebody who's definitely giving Virgo down.
- [51:45]
A
Yeah, another Virgo on our hand.
- [51:46]
B
Virgo Down. Seeing her really, really stand up for herself no matter what. Because our industry is so based off of being relevant and being likable. And sometimes you can be, you know, you can be more relevant and less likable or whatever it is, but you're so concerned about all those things because our industry makes you feel like we can't wait to replace you. Actually, we'll get somebody for a third of the. If we can replace you, because they haven't been around as long, they haven't achieved as much, you know, oh, my gosh.
- [52:14]
A
So.
- [52:14]
B
But when you have women like that that you can look up to and say, no, they stood by it. And seeing their evolution, Money Long as an artist, Esther Dean as an actress as well, like, it just gave me even more. More reason to say, okay, and some black girl will be looking at me one day and saying, oh, yeah, like, she's been able to get, like, number ones in seven different genres. It's impossible for me. The way that I think is if one person it, then anybody can do it, but I just need to be one of the one people who does it.
- [52:44]
A
Yes. And I love hearing that they were there to give you that good advice. I think that's so important because it's so true what you said, where we often see this industry wash, rinse and repeat. And we especially see it in female rap, where it's like they use the newer girl to take out the older lady, and then now they keep on doing it. And I mean, and. And it's really interesting because I feel like I. It's. To me, it's like it isn't allowing the craft to move forward because nobody knows where their enemies are coming from and know when to talk to each other. Because it's all so competitive. Instead of it being collaborative and us getting some amazing new records or new sounds or whatever it could be. I mean, how do we fight against that, you think? Cause I know you do a lot of that with writers. I mean, in the community, with trying to get things changed and moved and getting more respect and getting more of your earnings. But how do we continue to move up again against the corporate side? I mean, obviously, we have to learn more, but how do we put the power more in our hands so that they can't pit us against one another?
- [53:45]
B
Ownership. I'm a true believer in ownership. And you don't gotta own it all. You don't gotta own everything. You don't have to own it all at the same time, but you have to have some type of. I got really tired of saying, like, oh, can we do this? And they'd be like, I gotta ask the boss who. Gotta ask the boss's boss. Boss along. The boss, boss, boss, boss. I'm like, who am I talking to here? Because nobody wants to take accountability. If there's always somebody, I would rather you tell me. I don't think that you are worth paying.
- [54:12]
A
That's right.
- [54:12]
B
If you can come to me and you can tell me that, I'll say.
- [54:15]
A
And what are you basing it off of? And what are you basing off of it? Cause this is where it gets tricky. And I'm sure you feel the same way is I'm cool. Like, I know my worth and my value, but I know we're in a business, so I'm cool with going by the data for this scenario. We can go by the data, but what happens when y' all move the goal post of the data?
- [54:32]
B
Exactly.
- [54:33]
A
What happens when people can do this and that and all of a sudden they're number one, but nobody played the record. Exact. What do we then do with that type of thing? Like, how are we. How. Because they can move you out the history books based off of one little rule change.
- [54:48]
B
Absolutely. I think it still becomes going goes back to owning something. Creating businesses that uplift the creator. If you're upset about, you know, songwriters don't get paid and they go to a session, we'll start a publishing company or a management company, and you find a way to pay them, make the new normals. You know, you're upset about writers don't get this. Or artists don't do this. Then. Then actually build companies that you want to see be the new normal. And even if yours isn't the company that creates the new normal for the next 20 years, you're a part of many people who will try to continuously do that again. And we've been really struggling with this, the big three, you know, and we have to only be concerned with what they're all doing. But we forget that. You know, if we take our rap girlies, for instance, most of our big rap girls, they started off on an indy that is outsourcing this talent to the major, you know what I'm saying? Like, it didn't just directly go to the major.
- [55:43]
A
Absolutely.
- [55:44]
B
It blew up. And then they were like, time to get the bag. And in exchange for that, that particular bag, you give up a really, really powerful chess mark.
- [55:57]
A
And let's talk about that. Right? Cause I do think it's a give and take with anything in life.
- [56:02]
B
Absolutely.
- [56:03]
A
So if a young artist is thinking about signing to a label and they're giving up, you know, let's say masters and whatever other. Maybe they also are giving up merch or a couple of other things, but they're getting not only mass production and major promotion, but they're gonna get a big hefty check. Is that an issue? As long as they know they're going into that. Because I feel like it's important to tell the people that, hey, something's gonna give. If you want complete ownership, you may not get as much marketing, you may not get as much money. You. You may be spending more than you're making now. Will you have a lot to bargain with when that time comes and you decide to get a collaborator?
- [56:40]
B
Sure.
- [56:40]
A
But it's like, no direction is wrong. And I feel like a lot of times we make it seem like black and white, but it's really about what you want.
- [56:47]
B
That's exactly what I was gonna say. Anytime you sign anything, it's. First of all, what is my idea of happiness, right? My idea of happiness, like, cause to be an artist, for instance, we just keep it with just artistry. It's like, okay, if you wanna fast track to being able to open up for an artist that, like, let's say they're a Warner artist or whatever, and you're like, dang, I would really love to open up for Dua Lipa. Then maybe you should be a Warner artist because it's gonna be a lot easier for you to, first of all, be able to afford to go on that tour. But also because they want to see Warner acts opening up for Warner, you know what I'm saying? Headliners, that's just an example. But the other thing is like, okay, what is my idea of happiness? Do I want to do arenas? Do I want to just be able to sell at the Roxy? Do I want to earn my merch? What is your idea of happiness? Because that's how you, you know, what kind of building you need to be in, what kind of structure that it looks like? Because those are two completely different ways of going. And every now and then we talk about this all the time. Like the artist, you know, and the superstar, like, in that type of way, sometimes they become one. Like, they are one thing at one point in Their career. But a lot of the times the pop star is not willing to do what the artist does, and the artist is not willing to do what the pop star does, period. Those are different things.
- [57:59]
A
And it's totally okay.
- [58:00]
B
And both make the world go round. Like, you can't have one without the other. So I do think that. Yeah. Like, if you're gonna take. If you know that. Whoa, I wanna. I have also. I think women artists are very different because it cost us a lot more to be artists. Yeah.
- [58:17]
A
Because you think of the glam, right? The fashion. I mean, fashion itself is a billion dollars.
- [58:21]
B
Yes, absolutely.
- [58:21]
A
Good damn grief.
- [58:23]
B
Absolutely.
- [58:24]
A
Fashion, that'll really spook you.
- [58:26]
B
Yeah, it will.
- [58:27]
A
But, yeah. Yeah, it is more expensive in that regard. The fashion, you start to realize, and.
- [58:31]
B
Dang, I done pulled the same outfit. Maybe I should buy it.
- [58:35]
A
It's like, mix this up a little bit.
- [58:36]
B
Mix it up a little bit. You know, if I'm renting the same red camera, you know, for. And the. For the 50th music video, you could have bought the mother red cameras.
- [58:45]
A
So. And then also, you working on your next album. I know. We were just talking about it.
- [58:48]
B
We was in New York.
- [58:48]
A
Just that you were just talking about.
- [58:49]
B
We were in New York. Yeah. You was telling me you work on.
- [58:51]
A
You ready to do a full album again?
- [58:53]
B
Yes, ready to do a full new album again. And I just kind of like, with my own project, I like to make sure I've lived enough. I think that between the last album, it took a little bit younger. I took like a year and a half in between, which I never do, because I always feel like the longer that you take, it's like the harder it is. I gotta catch you up on this and this and this and this and this. And it's like I'm five years older. Of course, there's much to catch you up on, you know, So I try to make sure that I'm talking to the people sooner than later. And so, yeah, definitely in between projects, I've just been kind of. I'm in the very early stages right now of just shaping it all, and I'm excited for next year for you.
- [59:28]
A
I can't wait. You know, I love everything that you do, and I want to go back down memory lane because my dad found this in Chicago. Girl in the garage.
- [59:38]
B
Come on.
- [59:38]
A
That you made me for one of my birthdays. Yeah, yeah, you made this. T and K. Best friends. You see this? This done left. But the friendship remained.
- [59:46]
B
Exactly.
- [59:47]
A
Okay.
- [59:47]
B
Best friends.
- [59:49]
A
So let's see What? This is? Okay, yeah. This is US 9 years old when we were doing American Junior.
- [59:55]
B
First we ever took together.
- [59:56]
A
I mean, we got our numbers on. First of all, look at that hair. You always love cutting your hair. It used to piss me off. And it always longs on your back.
- [60:04]
B
So what am I supposed to braid now?
- [60:05]
A
Exactly. I was always braiding Taylor's hair and wrestling her and tackling her. Yeah.
- [60:09]
B
But I'm like, look, I'm the small one. I was never winning.
- [60:13]
A
I was never winning. And then you were trying to force me to play basketball. Remember? You was the first person, I think, that made me watch Love and Basketball.
- [60:18]
B
Yes.
- [60:19]
A
Cause you loved that movie.
- [60:20]
B
I loved that. And I kept trying to literally find that type of. Type of thing. I was like, I'mma find me a little loving basketball thing. Yes, Michelle. IND something like that. I made a fool of me. Like, what was I going through?
- [60:33]
A
You love that song. We used to watch that movie all the time.
- [60:36]
B
Yes.
- [60:37]
A
And play that one fighting game in your dance room.
- [60:39]
B
Dance Dance Revolution.
- [60:40]
A
No, the fighting one.
- [60:42]
B
Oh, you remember.
- [60:43]
A
It wasn't like Tekken. It was something else that your dad had. We used to play it.
- [60:46]
B
I feel like I know what you're talking about, cuz I can see the character, but I don't know.
- [60:49]
A
Oh my gosh. He was. This is what I was talking about when Tyler pulled out that damn black car.
- [60:53]
B
Yeah.
- [60:53]
A
And we was like, damn, what is that?
- [60:55]
B
You can see it on this smartphone. Jay Z. Yeah, exactly.
- [60:58]
A
He was looking like Jay Z too, with this look.
- [61:01]
B
I mean, hanging with the players.
- [61:02]
A
Yeah, hanging with the players. Lol. Yeah. Because Taquan always was trying to act like he was the player, though. He was. We look so cute. I love it. Aw. This is the 14th birthday.
- [61:12]
B
Oh, yeah. We had an 80s themed birthday bash. That was really fun. Oh, yeah. And I actually feel that first picture might have been on the cake of the birthday bag. One of these little pictures. Yeah, something like that.
- [61:24]
A
Cause we always brought that picture back. Oh, these was our first boyfriends. This is our first little boyfriend, Zach.
- [61:30]
B
Brandon.
- [61:30]
A
Hey, Josh, y'. All.
- [61:31]
B
Hey, Josh and Brandon.
- [61:33]
A
Oh my gosh.
- [61:34]
B
Yes.
- [61:35]
A
So this was the guy that Taylor was dating when she was in middle school.
- [61:39]
B
Josh.
- [61:40]
A
And on my space, you introduced me to his brother Brandon.
- [61:44]
B
Uh huh. That would go literally on. I was still around with Josh, you know, until my 20s. On and off, on and off, on and off until my 20s.
- [61:52]
A
That was your booze. I really loved Brandon for a long time.
- [61:54]
B
Yeah, you did, you did. Was getting in all Kind of trouble. Never forget some of the stories.
- [62:00]
A
Oh.
- [62:00]
B
Because then he got.
- [62:01]
A
Then the industry girls found him, and all of a sudden, they liked him.
- [62:04]
B
Exactly.
- [62:04]
A
No, y' all do not.
- [62:05]
B
Like, come here.
- [62:06]
A
I got nothing for y'. All.
- [62:06]
B
Exactly. They just wanted to be hanging out in Pomona.
- [62:09]
A
Cause y' all wasn't getting booked on them movie roles. Y' all was mad I was taking them parts. Exactly. So y' all trying to take. Take my man.
- [62:15]
B
Mm. Thank you. This is so funny, seeing me, like, in this little dress and everything. I'm, like, gay as hell now. And I'm like. I'm like, I'll still wear a dress or something, but with the tight little body. Ody. I'm like, okay, she's giving her.
- [62:30]
A
I'm Holly. No, bitch, you always eat down today. Then don't matter the look.
- [62:35]
B
Yes.
- [62:36]
A
Oh, my gosh. So cute. But we did go through so many phases, because what was I, Mary Poppins? Why was I trying to. All sweet and innocent.
- [62:43]
B
Exactly. Cause you're like, I got this little boyfriend, but I'm sweet and innocent.
- [62:47]
A
Oh, yeah. And this was also this. So this was Naim. I remember we tried to get you with Naim.
- [62:51]
B
He was exactly. I was, like, getting into it, and then I wasn't into it, and then I wasn't. But then I ran into him randomly. Like, in my 20s, I was walking around Howard and.
- [63:00]
A
Oh, yeah, because he went to Howard Frizzy.
- [63:02]
B
Yeah. That was my little move for a second.
- [63:04]
A
Oh, my gosh. This was us in the bedroom of Altadena House.
- [63:07]
B
Yes, girl.
- [63:08]
A
Remember when I used to move Renny's little bed in there, and she would be sleeping in there with me? And then about to get mad, like, renni, out. You're out now.
- [63:15]
B
So mean.
- [63:16]
A
So mean.
- [63:16]
B
And now Renny's one of us. She's like, out here. I'm like, renny, not you being grown.
- [63:20]
A
Yeah, grown. Okay, now, this is really. This was one of my best birthdays of my entire life. You remember we was Universal CityWalk Sleepover, and we made that video, but because YouTube changed the rules, they ripped our video down.
- [63:33]
B
Crazy.
- [63:34]
A
Because of all the music we used in it.
- [63:35]
B
Oh, yeah, this is before they beat. Exactly.
- [63:38]
A
So this is. That's Crystal, That's Kashan, That's Angelique. That's me. That' that's Maya. Oh, my gosh. And then Corinne. Baby Corinne. Not so funny, because Maya I met on MySpace and obviously, like, I didn't go to real school, so I would be having it. I would try to Come up with these lives where my mom would be like, yeah, we. We met her at one of the events. Like, and so. Yeah, like, but I really met her on MySpace and I wanted to hang out with her at the mall, so I was like, mom, yeah, we met her, you know, her family and everything. And then we show up at the mall and we meet for the first time. I was always doing that.
- [64:07]
B
That is hilarious.
- [64:08]
A
Trying to just have friends. Exactly. Exactly.
- [64:10]
B
Just. And friends who weren't in the industry, like, regular friends, which is, like, something, like, touchy. It's like, sometimes you want to know thy enemy. Sometimes, you know, you want to know.
- [64:21]
A
But sometimes I feel like this is when we got Razer phones.
- [64:24]
B
Yeah. And then the little sidekicks that we saw.
- [64:28]
A
Oh, my gosh, girl. Okay. And then this is the last thing you wrote. It says, nothing makes me more happy than to know that I have such a close friend. Know that you're down for me is reassuring. It's the reason I'm always smiling. Love you, Taylor. Bff. Aw. And handwriting was everything. Let's just get into that real quick. Cause mine looks like chicken scratch.
- [64:48]
B
Oh, crap. I was over here. Like, a little bit of cursive, a little bit of. This is so funny. I haven't seen that probably since I gave it to you, girl.
- [64:55]
A
Literally. I love you so much, Taylor.
- [64:57]
B
I love you so much.
- [64:58]
A
Thank you for coming on the podcast.
- [64:59]
B
Yes. I'm like, we out here in the building.
- [65:02]
A
Come on. Look at the.
- [65:03]
B
You know, got you a son, everything.
- [65:05]
A
This is Kiki Palmer.
- [65:08]
B
Yes.
- [65:09]
A
I love you real bad.
- [65:11]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [65:16]
A
Tayla Parks is the real deal. An artist, a boss, and a friend who knows how to pull the truth out of any moment and make it sing. I'm so proud of just Keke and what we created together. And even prouder of the woman and. And force Taylor's become. Thank you for sharing your heart, your brilliance, and your Virgo magic with me. Baby, this is Keke Palmer. Baby, this is. This is Kiki.
- [65:44]
B
Baby, this is Keke Palmer.
- [65:48]
A
Yeah. Baby, this is Keke Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Siegel is our post producer. Our producers are Lauren Hampton and Molly nestler. Hilary Esty McLaughlin is our executive producer. Production services provided by Evolution Media. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer for Team Keke. My producer is Sharon Palmer for Wondery. Our managing producer is Olivia Fonti. Senior managing producer is Nick Ryan. And our executive producers are Emily Feldbrake, Erin o'. Flaherty. And Marshall Louie.