B (2:09)

Oh, what's the designer? It's not okay.

A (2:12)

Period. Bergdorf Goodman. I know. That's right. The card Ain't declining. Okay, today's mood in one word here. Present. We love a present. Girly, I'm in the moment. What did you listen to on the ride here? Unreleased.

B (2:27)

Yeah, girl, I need to be hearing that.

A (2:28)

What is the. Unreleased.

B (2:29)

I sent you some links and I leave. Yes, please.

A (2:32)

So you're working on a new project already?

B (2:33)

New album. How long it's been? Been maybe five or six months.

A (2:37)

Would you say that's the beginning for you still? Are you deep in it? Like, do you have a timeline when you're like, I'm closing it out, it's.

B (2:44)

Usually the same amount of time. So by this time, I'm deep in it. And, like, that's all I'm listening to. That's all I'm thinking about. I gotta take nyquil to go to sleep, girl. Cause you can't turn your song down in your microphone.

A (2:54)

You probably writing around the clock. And I know you were just in with Taylor, my girl.

B (2:58)

Yeah, she coming back next week, I think. Yeah, I know.

A (3:02)

That's gonna be some fire. Okay. One thing that makes you instantly laugh. My mama told me her Uber Eats driver stole her Amazon package. What in the ghetto now? You know times are hard. One corporation's stealing from the next. That's crazy. And what was the package that happened to me recently?

B (3:21)

She said it was a candle.

A (3:22)

That happened to me, actually, recently. It wasn't the Uber Eats driver, but it was definitely somebody. They stole my package. I'm like, it ain't nothing but sigurum flour. So enjoy that. What do you wanna do with that?

B (3:34)

Enjoy that?

A (3:35)

Yeah. You ain't got no stove if you're stealing. I can't even. Girl, these people. Okay, last screenshot on your phone.

B (3:43)

What was the last screenshot?

A (3:44)

Did I answer that? You did. You said a cute pedicure set.

B (3:47)

Oh, yeah. I saw. I don't see that many, like, gemstone designs on people's feet. And I saw it come across my Instagram and I was like, I'm doing it.

A (3:55)

I do feel like that Y2K is coming back.

B (3:57)

It's coming back.

A (3:58)

Somebody just put acrylic on my toe the other day. I said, damn, Wait a minute. Then I said, oh, it's cute.

B (4:02)

It's cute. And it probably lasts.

A (4:03)

Yeah. But I thought, like, are we in 2005?

B (4:06)

No, for real.

A (4:07)

On the toe.

B (4:07)

I may need to start doing that because my big toe be getting a beating. So every time I come back, she like, what you do now?

A (4:13)

It's so crazy how our feet. We gotta be careful. With our body as we get older, all them heels and stuff. I don't want the corns. Them Auntie Corns.

B (4:19)

I got one, girl.

A (4:21)

It's so hurtful when that happens.

B (4:22)

It's real hurtful.

A (4:23)

You know, I got one on the end.

B (4:24)

Ain't no going back.

A (4:25)

Mine right here. Mine right here. And it's like, literally, how can you go back? You really can't.

B (4:31)

You can't go back. Yeah.

A (4:32)

It's crazy. Anyway, I'm glad you're here. Me too. So excited to now. When I've been getting my information, I'm like, hey, we. I mean, you from the south suburbs, you said you lived in Harvey a little bit. I grew up in Robbins, but I was born in Ingalls, which is in Harvey. But you also went to Christian church, so you sang in the choir.

B (4:50)

I sang in the choir.

A (4:50)

I grew up singing in the choir, too.

B (4:52)

Really?

A (4:52)

Yes. Yeah.

B (4:53)

My grandpa, he was a preacher. They came from Panama, like in the late 70s.

A (4:57)

Wow.

B (4:58)

And he came for missionary work and ended up staying and started preaching at this church in Pullman and stayed there. So that's where I went to church every day or every Sunday. I was my first crowd. I sang in front of.

A (5:13)

Same with me. My mom was the choir director. My dad became a deacon later on. In the beginning, we just were going to the church. But, yeah, I grew up in the church as well. And then you went to Chicago High School for the Arts. Yep. So I wanna know how you feel. Like, those influence really prepared you for the kind of artist you are now. Because one thing I've always loved about your music is it's so eclectic. Like, it's soulful, it's R and B, but it also has, like, some punk elements. So I'm wondering how you hodgepodged all this together.

B (5:41)

I think the most natural parts of me are the things that came so second nature when I was little and whatever I grew up around or was listening to. And then the older I get, the more I like attach other things to that. But church was such a big part of my music journey. My first mentor was the pianist and the music director at church, so I learned a lot of things from him. And, like, piano and just like, vocal arrangements and just really getting comfortable in front of a crowd. That was my first experience with that. But then also hearing what's going on in the city. And my mom, and she was in her 20s when she was raising me, so hearing what she was listening to.

A (6:22)

Yep, yep.

B (6:23)

Destiny's Child. Denise Williams.

A (6:25)

Denise Williams.

B (6:27)

Yes.

A (6:27)

Yes.

B (6:29)

Minnie Riperton, my dad listening to a lot of, like, outkast, Pharrell, Devin Adude.

A (6:37)

A lot of great. Like, they had an array of different things that you were listening to. Who were some of your favorite artists or inspiration, you would say, growing up, did you ever listen to Phi Phi Dobson?

B (6:45)

No.

A (6:46)

I feel like you would have liked her. Okay. I love Fifi Dobson. Growing up, she was kind of like an alternative rock type of thing. You gotta send me that. I wanna sing Canadian artists. I was like, I wonder if Raven ever listened to her.

B (6:56)

Send me that, please. I love any black women occupying those type of spaces, that alt space, you know, Like Kelis.

A (7:05)

Oh, my gosh, Kelis. I think as I got older, I really realized how important her representation was with experimental sounds. I don't think I took it for granted when we were younger, but when I think about it now, I'm like, damn. She really was doing stuff that we wouldn't have even seen nobody do it.

B (7:21)

She was.

A (7:21)

Yeah, she was pushing, even with just how she dressed. I feel so much right now. Yes. Scream. Scream.

B (7:28)

I wanna scream.

A (7:30)

Yes.

B (7:30)

She was pushing it, but also, like, playing with her hair color.

A (7:33)

Oh, my gosh. Y. Just free.

B (7:36)

Yeah. That inspires me.

A (7:38)

When do you think you realized that music wasn't just something you were doing in church or just listening to, but something you wanted as a career?

B (7:44)

Well, when I first got into high school, I think that was subconsciously a big decision for me to commit myself to being in School from 8am to 5pm Doing academics and doing music afterwards. That was a big decision. I think I didn't realize in the moment, but that was me kind of inserting myself in a way. But once I started, like, really getting in the music scene in Chicago and like the poetry scene and soundcloud, I was really heavily into. So I started putting out my own music and even like ripping Kay Trinada beats. Sorry, K. Ripping Kay Trinada beats from online and making my own songs to them or Flying Lotus Beat. Just really figuring out what my identity was. And I think that's when I figured out, oh, I really like being a part of music in this way. I don't know where that's gonna take me, but I know it makes me feel something.

A (8:42)

Yeah. Was it nerve wracking for you? Cause obviously, women, when we're in really in anything, but especially in music, it can be really hard, like stepping out and going to the scene. I even remember for myself, like, it was one thing when I was a kid doing music, but then when I got into my 18, 19, 20. Being on your own in the studio, just trying to. I don't know if the word is network. We say network. It has a weird connotation to it, but it's really like, meet people and collaborate with them on what you want to do. It can be tough because sometimes they don't really want to do the music. They want to do other things.

B (9:11)

That too. So how was underage, you know what I mean? When I first started. Wow. So my mama. And we have this too, in line. Yeah, my mama went everywhere with me. Yeah. The traveling, the shows. Like, I'm 17 in a bar, you know, so she right there.

A (9:27)

Like, I love that you were bold doing that, though.

B (9:32)

So they like, I ain't going. I'm not going to even try. Because her mama look like she go.

A (9:36)

I love that.

B (9:37)

But also, I think what was so important for me was finding my community there so early on. Smino Monte Booker. Like, just a great group of men who were around me, who protected me.

A (9:51)

And respecting you for your talent.

B (9:53)

Yes. Yeah. Like, Monty would take me home, drop me back off home after the steps, the studio, because I couldn't drive yet. So I'm just fortunate to have had, like, solid men in my corner.

A (10:04)

Yeah. I mean, like you were saying, you've been doing music since you were. When she were a teenager, Moon shows came out. How old were you?

B (10:12)

I was like, 15. 15.

A (10:14)

So when you were doing those first shows, what is. What are the kind of the early things that you remember about being on stage as a performer that has maybe changed or maybe stayed the same?

B (10:22)

I remember being so nervous to the point where I. I couldn't. Like, I remember my voice trembling. I know I probably sound crazy looking back at videos, but also I remember just feel like there's something so electric about being on stage and addicting about it that I just. I felt like I wanted to do it over and over and over. I still get nervous before stage. I sweat crazy before I go on stage because I'm so excited. And that adrenaline. It's that adrenaline. So that still exists. But I think the more shows I do and the more, like, people show me that they love it, the more comfortable I get and the more I feel like I'm growing into who I really want to be on stage.

A (11:08)

Yeah, but I mean, you've already toured with so many incredible people and getting ready to tour with some more and do your headline, your own tour. So I remember you also toured with SZA during the Control Fair, which for me was Huge. I think for many of us was huge. The conversation she was having with control and what that did for us was so impactful. What was it like for you being on that tour with her during that time?

B (11:28)

I was such a SZA fanatic. Still am. But to be a part of something that was so generational, like, it's really special. And I think sometimes you don't recognize that in the moment, but I think we all felt that.

A (11:44)

Yep.

B (11:44)

In the moment. So I'm just happy that she wanted me to be a part of it. And literally from that tour, so many of those fans that I was able to get on that tour are still with me today.

A (11:56)

Yeah.

B (11:56)

So that's the value of those type of.

A (11:59)

And it's so interesting because obviously, Love Me Not. I think it's a year old, but it's become the soundtrack song of the summer. Your first Billboard 100. But it's also different to me from a lot of the records that I learned about you from.

B (12:11)

Yes.

A (12:12)

But it's opened you up to a totally different audience. I mean, you're gonna be touring with Sabrina Carpenter, Renee Rapp. How was it a. When you saw that song Get a New Life?

B (12:22)

Yeah, I. Well, when I first. When we first finished the song, I felt like I knew that it was special and my team knew it was special. But then you hit with the question of, okay, how do we get this to as many ears as possible to feel it the way we feel it? And that was a challenge for me. And, like, it's been so rewarding seeing that feeling be validated, even like a year later, because it just makes me want to keep trusting what I'm doing and trusting my team and the music I'm making. And it'll reach. The ears are supposed to reach. So I think that's been the biggest lesson I've learned through.

A (12:59)

Yeah. I mean, my mom always says the cream rises to the top and, like, timing is everything, so we don't know how stuff is arising. I remember that was the same thing also with Lizzo, with her big. I can't think of the name.

B (13:09)

Truth Hurts.

A (13:10)

Truth Hurts. It was like it was around for a while. And actually also with Lady Gaga, same kind of thing. But what's meant to be will always be.

B (13:16)

It'll always rise.

A (13:17)

So now, with that being said and with this record, obviously, it still sounds like you, but it's different from some of your other stuff. It's the most commercial, I guess I would say.

B (13:24)

Yeah.

A (13:25)

How does that make you feel now, getting all these New fans, but then also saying, like, I want you to know all of me. Like, I got these fans, those fans. I want all y' all bridged together. What? As an artist, maybe that hasn't been something you've been thinking about, or maybe it is.

B (13:38)

It's definitely something I'm thinking about, especially because I don't view what I do as one thing. And I like to dabble in so many different puddles. I don't want to look at it. At it as even a challenge. But I know that the thing for me is going to be muddling all my people into one pot, you know, the people who love me for my R and B bag or my pop bag or my more alternative or alt pop bag, you know? So I think that allows so many different types of people to come together in one space. And that's, I think, what's most exciting about what I'm doing.

A (14:15)

Yeah. And what type of space were you in, do you think, when you wrote Love Me Not. Because I know in people, they were like, okay, is this 50s, is this 70s? Is this 60s? Was that something you were intentionally thinking about when you went in the studio and wrote it, or did it just. Was that just the vibe and then fell into it?

B (14:30)

I think there's something about, like, the through line of my music is that there's always that classic, almost nostalgic thing.

A (14:39)

About it, but it's still so fresh.

B (14:41)

Yeah.

A (14:41)

Like, it doesn't sound like anything I've heard, but at some point I heard this. It feels like in my soul, you know?

B (14:48)

Your soul? You know, I love that feeling. Yeah. I love that feeling. So when people describe my music as that, I'm like, that's exactly how I want you to feel.

A (14:57)

I mean, what is it like when you are in the studio? Like, in my mind, I'm like, it could be one of two things. Either you're casual as hell, and you're just like, hey, turn the on. Or you're like, light the candle.

B (15:07)

I'm actually casual. Yes. I wish I was one of those. I wish I was her. I'm not her yet. I'm not her yet. Like, them, the light, right?

A (15:17)

I'm like, that's. Cause that's how I feel when I'm listening to it. But it's. Everybody say, you also could be very like, yeah, hey, let's just get in the boob again. Yeah, you know, that's how I am.

B (15:24)

But people are like, I know you on shrooms. I know you doing something in there. I'm Like, I'm like, oh, my gosh.

A (15:30)

It'S such a compliment when people think that drugs got you there.

B (15:32)

Yeah, I love that. I'm like, you know what? Keep thinking that.

A (15:36)

So you're kind of like, vibes are chill. Do you have, like, what are some of the people that you love working with the most?

B (15:42)

Well, as of late, I love working with Dahi. He executive produced my last album, and we're working closely on this album, too. But I cling to producers really hard. Like, when I first came out, Monte Booker was my guy. He's still my guy. And then Steve Lacy, like, whenever I find my people.

A (16:01)

Yeah, you and Steve, you and Donald. Yeah. I mean, there's just like. So did you just call them up? Did they find you? Did you send them the record? Like, because to me, those are people that ain't doing stuff with people that get together.

B (16:17)

You know what I mean?

A (16:17)

You gotta be in a room, like, Steve A is just rocking with everybody. You know what I mean?

B (16:22)

Yeah.

A (16:22)

And I feel like it was such a perfect connection with you and him, with you and Donald. And so, like, how did y' all find each other?

B (16:29)

Yeah. You know, so me and Steve, I was a fan of the Internet. I was a fan of Steve. Like, high school, randomly. I remember I was taking a nap and my phone was buzzing. Crazy. And I looked at it and I saw a DM from him. No. And he had tweeted out my recent project at the time, and he was like, whenever you in la, I need to get with you. I love what you're doing. I was on the next flight. I'm just playing off, pretty much. But a few weeks after, I came to LA for the first time and I met him, and it was just that instant, instant feeling. And that's rare to me. Like, whenever you work with a producer and you feel like, oh, you get me. And I don't even have to explain it. I cling to that super hard. I just love those type of pairings, like that Timbaland and Aaliyah, or Dark Child and Brandi.

A (17:14)

I love.

B (17:14)

Or Quincy and Michael.

A (17:16)

Stick with it. Is what you think you accept, like, the fact that Quincy and Michael didn't do more. It makes me just so mad.

B (17:22)

Like, it's working.

A (17:23)

Stick with it.

B (17:24)

That's how I am.

A (17:26)

Yeah. And it was the same with Donald. How did you guys end up doing that record?

B (17:29)

So Donald, we actually met because he was working on his album and he wanted me on a song so I was working on. And then I was like, you Know what? I had this open verse on One Wish for so long, and I couldn't think of who I wanted on it. And I was like, oh, this is perfect. And he looked at it, and you sound.

A (17:46)

You remind me of Minnie on that song, your false eto. And it's such a beautiful song. Thank you. That's one of my, I think, my favorite records from you.

B (17:55)

Thank you.

A (17:56)

Yeah. And I think it's interesting. I'm curious what you think, obviously, how are you handling the new visibility? Because to this point, people in the industry and real music heads, they've been listening to, like, you're. When they be like, this is your artist's favorite artist. You're that. So how does it feel now, seeing all this visibility in this new way? You know, how does it affect you?

B (18:16)

I feel like I'm still getting used to the transition. And also, like, it's so crazy how you can be operating at a certain rhythm for so long, and then something just changes that. And you're like, oh, okay, okay, okay. So it feels like that, you know, but also, I'm just happy that I'm here and that I'm getting to welcome so many new faces and spirits into my world, and that's all I can ask for. So I just gotta catch up to the momentum of it.

A (18:46)

Yeah.

B (18:46)

And then hopefully. I just hope that people are here to stay and not for the moment, you know? Cause I think of my career and my music as that. So I hope this is the bridge to, like, lifelong fans.

A (19:02)

Absolutely. I mean, we feel that way about any of the artists that we love. Beyonce. Each album, she finds new fans, but the same ones from the beginning and are always still holding on.

B (19:10)

Yeah.

A (19:10)

How do you look at, like, fashion and stuff with your music? Cause when I first. You know, when you hear somebody's song, you're like, I gotta go to their page. Yeah. What do they look like? What do they vibe like? What's their look? And you've had so much consistency with your look. You've been the red ginger from the beginning, whether it's straight. Yeah. Like, I've seen so much consistency from it. Cause I went down your page, I was like, what's my girl giving? And I was like, I live for her. And so, like, when you think about your imagery and look. Cause that's a part of, like, storytelling and artistry, too.

B (19:35)

It is.

A (19:36)

How do you feel? Like that compliments the music? What are you trying to kind of put together for people visually?

B (19:41)

Yeah. I agree with you. It's a huge Part of it. And with the red, I don't know, that's just been something that stuck with me. Red feels bold. It feels passionate. But I just like loyalty with certain things too. So, like, that feels good for me. But I think as I grow, as I get older, and as the projects change and evolve, I kind of figure out where I like to sit, like, in the fashion world, I guess. But I know that there's something so, like, whimsical and classic about me as a person. And I'm like, however I can express that, you know, with my clothes, I like to.

A (20:23)

Yeah, I definitely feel that whims. It's like what you said coming in. Whimsy, but a little back swan.

B (20:29)

Yeah. Something a little less.

A (20:30)

It's like, yeah.

B (20:33)

I felt that a little off.

A (20:35)

It has to go, you know, but still serving down. Speaking of serving down, you served down at Coachella, girl.

B (20:42)

Thank you.

A (20:43)

And I know that was. I mean, that's huge. Yeah. What was that like for you? Has to be a bucket list situation.

B (20:48)

Oh, my goodness.

A (20:49)

Right? So what was that experience like performing at Coachella?

B (20:52)

That was a huge bucket list for me. And before, while I was working on the album, I decided to write down every single thing that I wanted out of the season on a sticky note and put it on my mirror in my bathroom. And I've been doing that since then. And Coachella was one of those things. And I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna get it, but we gonna see. And that happened. And so many of those things have happened for me. But I remember Coachella being kind of the first public show moment since the song had been moving.

A (21:21)

Uh huh.

B (21:21)

And I had some anxiety going into it about, oh, like, is this just an Internet moment or is this a real life thing? And I remember being sidestage, like, ain't nobody here, nobody can, you know, having all those thoughts. And I got on stage and it was packed, and I was like, oh, this is a real life transition happening for me for sure. And like, that gave me all the confidence in the world. So Coachella was a dream for me.

A (21:48)

It's so true. Because you already have, like I said, the validity, but it's just like, again with us as entertainers. And people say the same thing to me all the time. Like, I've been in the industry for over 20 years, and people be like, this is your.

B (21:57)

This is your mode.

A (21:58)

You like, girl, this moment done came, it done went. It done came back again. And it's kinda like as entertainers, as artists, we always have to. Those are the ways we're always writing. But there are certain moments where we're like, nah, this is a little different. Like, it's like, I've always feel it, but I'm like, I'm feeling that. You seeing that I'm. You know what I mean?

B (22:16)

Exactly.

A (22:16)

It's crazy.

B (22:17)

That's what it is.

A (22:18)

Now, what are you looking forward to about going on tour with Sabrina, going on tour with Renee, and then, I mean, you have sold out dates already for the tour. You're headlining of your own.

B (22:27)

Right.

A (22:28)

What. What can fans expect from this show that maybe they didn't get from other shows that you've developed as an artist?

B (22:35)

I think with this one, I've never played arenas before, so I think it's a huge deal. And I just wanna. I don't know, reimagine my show for those type of spaces. Because I'm gonna be there one day, and it's just exciting that I get to do this and see their show too, and see how they approach it.

A (22:56)

Whatever you're gonna see, Whatever it could be.

B (22:58)

Yeah. All of that. So, yeah, it's that. And also, like, whenever I get to open, for me, I like the challenge of, like, having to win over a crowd. Cause that's what it is in a way.

A (23:11)

Sure.

B (23:11)

But I feel like I'm going into it with a little more ammo with the song and people, like, maybe being a little more familiar with me this time. But, yeah, I'm pumped, hopefully. I went over so many people, new people.

A (23:25)

I'm sure you will. And I know you talked a lot about bringing your weird kind of like R and B alt to the pop crowd. I know a lot of times as artists and even as fans, we can be like, no, this is my thing. I wanted to stay niche, but it's like that.

B (23:36)

Yeah.

A (23:37)

It's a beautiful thing when you can bring something that a could be considered niche. Yeah. To the whole world. That's another level of. Of something. And. Right. I know that's something that you're interested in, want to do. So I think this is going to be a really great stepping stone.

B (23:49)

Yeah.

A (23:49)

And people that wouldn't know this type of sound, realizing how much you're going to really be obsessed with, like, it.

B (23:55)

Yeah.

A (23:55)

Because sometimes people don't know how to find music that they have no way into.

B (23:58)

So true. That's so true. That's a great point. Yeah.

A (24:01)

So. So you cast your real dad in your music video for One wish. And I was like, this is some Deep. She's deep. Who was kind of not a part of your life. Not to go so. But, I mean, when I was finding this information out, I'm like, okay, my girl is really on that black swan. So tell me about the process of being like, let me call this up in my life. Let me call him up.

B (24:28)

Yeah, baby.

A (24:30)

This is Icy Palma. Yeah. Here's the thing about traveling. While postcards are nice, the real magic happens when you dive into local life. And trust me, there is no better way to unlock a culture's heart than through the kitchen. When food's on the table, we're all speaking the same delicious language. Speaking of which, I've got some exciting news, y'. All. I'm hosting my very own Airbnb Original Experience in Chicago on December 17, and it is all about cooking up some love in the kitchen. Imagine this culinary dream. You, me, my pops, and a local chef with mad skills, all in one kitchen, cooking up a storm. We're talking flavors so good, they'll make your taste buds do a happy dance. We're talking delicious recipes, kitchen secrets, and plenty of laughs. We're about to make this kitchen feel like the hottest cooking show in town. And y' all know when my dad and I get together, there is bound to be some entertainment. We might even share our secret ingredient for the perfect comfort food. I don't know about that one. The best part? It's not just about what's cooking in the pots and pans. It's the laughs we'll share, the stories we'll tell, and, yes, the absolutely incredible food we'll devour together. When good people gather in the kitchen, that's where the real magic happens. So whether you're a kitchen pro or a novice, this experience is for everyone who loves good food and good company. And trust me, by the end of our time together, you'll feel like a culinary superstar. So if you're ready to roll your sleeves up and join me for some culinary fun, head to airbnb.com kiki to learn more about my Airbnb Original experience. Let's make some magic in the kitchen together. This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. As many of y' all know, holiday shopping as a working mama is no joke. Between prepping for my next guest on the podcast and chasing after my little one, your girl needs everything to be efficient. That's why I'm obsessed with Apple Pay. The other day, I'm recording, and during my break, I realize I still need to order those matching pajamas for our family Christmas photo. But instead of stressing, I just pulled out my iPhone for some last minute shopping, found the cutest PJs online, and easily purchased them with Apple Pay. I just tapped the Apple Pay button at checkout. A quick face ID scan and ding. Transaction complete. Trust and believe. Holiday magic isn't about filling out payment forms. It's about creating special moments with family. And Apple Pay gives me more time for that. And when I'm ordering all those fun stocking stuffers for my baby boy and those perfect gifts for my parents, Apple Pay makes it quick. No more juggling a million things between takes. For real though, whether I'm ordering holiday decorations or booking a Santa photo experience, Apple Pay makes it seamless. Just look for that Apple Pay button. When you're shopping online or in apps, pay the Apple way terms applied. What was the conversation like when you were like, let me call my dad. Let me have him in this video. Let him know and understand the impact that his absence had had on him.

B (27:40)

Right? Yeah, that's a big thing. I remember when I wrote the song, it was so easy to write because it was from memory and from experience. But even prior to that, me and him had already started talking to each other. And he. I remember I called him one random day. We hadn't talked in so long, and I was like, this feels weird. We missing birthdays, we missing holidays, we missing time. And I'm at a point where I turned 25 and my frontal lobe went down.

A (28:12)

Girl, isn't that so funny how that happens? It's like, I'm here now.

B (28:15)

I'm here now. I'm thinking, I'm having thoughts, literally. But I was like, if we all thought of our parents as, like, humans and thinking of them as my parents had me as teenagers. So just thinking about what that mindset is and wanting to approach him with a little more understanding, I think is where I'm at in my life. So I called him and I said, let's talk it out, let's figure it out, let's try. I would feel horrible if something happened to either one of us and we didn't try. So since then, we've been having a lot of difficult conversations, some awkward conversations, but also some good things. He went to Disney Universal. He comes to all the shows.

A (28:58)

Your dad, he's the one that's Panamanian.

B (29:00)

My mom's side.

A (29:00)

My mom's Panamanian.

B (29:01)

Okay, okay. My mom's side.

A (29:03)

Okay.

B (29:03)

So my dad from Inglewood.

A (29:04)

Okay, okay, I'm howling. So what was that day like being on the set and everything.

B (29:14)

So weeks before I told him there was a. I told him about the song. I said I wrote a song about this particular moment. Um, and then once we started going through the creative for the video, I was like, this would feel so weird if I casted somebody else to play this part. You know, I feel like it would be a good moment for us to share and for him to even understand what. What I'm feeling, you know? But obviously once he got on set and he saw certain scenes with the little girl running behind the car and I could tell there was a shift in his brain where he was like, oh, this isn't a fun, light hearted video. Yeah. So the next day I was like, let's go to Roscoe's. Let's have a talk about what we felt that day.

A (30:00)

It'll always heal it, won't it? Yeah. Okay.

B (30:05)

But it just opened up a important, hard conversation that I feel like we might have been avoiding for a long time. And that's what music does.

A (30:13)

I feel it's absolutely what music does. Music does it for the artist. Music does me for. For the person that's watching it, the fans. And for me, it was like, it can mean something. Like, I didn't even realize that that was where you were coming from when you wrote song. I was thinking about love.

B (30:25)

Yeah.

A (30:26)

You know what I mean? And obviously love is so many different kinds. Parental love, familial love, friendship. Friendship love, romantic love. I think that's also the marker of a really great song. Is because no matter the scenario you're in, it can apply to you. And the fact that it came from such a deep place for you, I think is probably why it has that kind of. Yeah. So how is that for you? Are you always. Cause you deal with a lot of different big themes. Breakup, love, all these things we're talking about. Is it always something personal or are you also the kind of artist where it could be a conversation with a friend or someone that you knew?

B (30:59)

Yeah, I'm that type of artist. Sometimes I don't got that much going on.

A (31:04)

Wait a minute. I didn't ask your sign or your big three.

B (31:08)

I'm an Aquarius sign.

A (31:09)

I should have known. Aquarius are brilliant. It's something about.

B (31:14)

I love that. I love that we usually get hate. So I'm loving this good press.

A (31:18)

That's cause them people are boring. Thank you. Y' all don't like boring people. So. Aquarius sun.

B (31:24)

Aquarius sun. Aries Moon. That's the Black Swan.

A (31:27)

Yes.

B (31:27)

Yeah. Aries moon and then Gemini rising.

A (31:31)

Oh, my gosh. You had double air. That's the creative genius stuff going on. Yeah. Period. Okay. Anyway. Sorry, Wait.

B (31:37)

What are you.

A (31:38)

So I'm a Virgo. Virgo sun. I love Virgo love. I'm gotta get down to this.

B (31:42)

Yep. Two plus two, girl.

A (31:43)

It's whole. My moon is sad. That's the fire. So I got fire, too. Very. Like, in your face with it.

B (31:50)

Like.

A (31:51)

And then my rising. This is the thing that really gets me, is the cancer girl.

B (31:55)

Cancer.

A (31:56)

I be out here crying.

B (31:56)

Oh, you be crying. You be sliding down a wall like.

A (32:00)

That thing of Kerry Washington. That means that's you. Why did Carrie do that?

B (32:07)

I felt her, though.

A (32:09)

She's so extra. We love the meme, though.

B (32:12)

So good.

A (32:14)

Oh, my gosh. Okay. So. Yeah. So you're kind of one of those people where it's like, I'm sitting back, but I'm watching.

B (32:18)

I'm watching, I'm observing. I'm feeling like. Yeah. So sometimes I pull from something my. My mom might have been through or my friend or, I don't know, something in a movie. I don't know. I like to, like, leave it open.

A (32:33)

Yeah.

B (32:33)

Yeah.

A (32:33)

You said something interesting. I'm curious what you mean that you weren't an active member of your life after Hypnos, but a breakup helped a lot of. You know, helped the clouds clear up. What do you mean by. What do you mean by this?

B (32:48)

I felt like after I released Crush, things felt foggy for me. I felt like I didn't really have a clear direction on what I wanted to do. I knew I wasn't comfortable, but I didn't know how to see beyond that. In a way, I felt like I was really. Like, my initial reaction to things would be negative or no. Or closed off. I don't know. I just felt like I wasn't in a place where I was open to all things. And that's also. Can affect, like, your mental. But also, like, your relationships with people, your relationship to music. In my career as a whole.

A (33:32)

Yeah.

B (33:32)

So when I say I don't feel like I was an active member in my life, I feel like I was so sunken in that I wasn't allowing myself to take control and be truly present. Yeah. Yeah.

A (33:44)

And I think those phases are important. I think we all go, you know, have that. Go through that, where you're kind of just like, I'm watching it pass me by until you decide. Or there's a moment or there's something that lets you know, hey, I gotta Wake up. And it's not gonna happen.

B (33:57)

If I don't see it, I don't do it. I don't do it. I can complain about this. I can complain about that or this, but, like, at the end of the day, this is my life and I want to take the reins, you know?

A (34:08)

And Hypnos. You think that process of creating that project was a part of helping you do that?

B (34:12)

It definitely helped me do that. And so by the time I got to Bird's Eye, I felt unleashed in a really crazy way. And I think seeing, like, the success of the song for me right now, I was all like, it's not just about career success to me. It's, oh, this was something that I pushed through. And I'm seeing the reward of internal resilience.

A (34:38)

Yeah. And you also were saying, and this is. I'm pulling this from the interview you had with the Guardian, but you said something I think is so important. It's a good thing, and it's also a tough thing as a black person, where you said, I felt like I had to prove myself to black people and to the R and B community, that I really love R and B. And I feel like that's so annoying that we have to do that. I understand what you're saying. And, like, you know, but it's like, also, what is R and B?

B (35:01)

Right.

A (35:02)

We're evolving it in real time. It's had so many faces, and by the way, it has to evolve. I think the strongest thing about R and B that should always stay the same, that it needs to survive, is a narrative, and we've lost that a lot of times in artistry, where it's like, what are you talking about? What's the storyline? R and B needs that. But as far as sound and sonics, I mean, there's an element of soul that's there, but we're supposed to evolve it.

B (35:24)

I think so, too. You know what I mean?

A (35:25)

So for you, I do resonate with that because that's something we all carry as black artists. But how did you find the balance between what that looked like for you?

B (35:34)

Yeah, I think that when I said that, that was more so a critique of my state of mind and not understanding that. That black music is everything.

A (35:48)

Like black music is. We're black. Yeah.

B (35:50)

So it's gonna be black music, and there'll be black people who love what you do regardless. So I think that I had to change my perspective on what I think I bring to black music and feel free in that.

A (36:03)

Yeah. And it's a lot of what we were talking about with Kelis. That's why I was thinking about Phi Phi Dobson. Phoe Dobson was one of the first albums that I bought and it would be she's a black artist, but her album would have been considered. I mean, she was like Avril Lavigne or something like that. And I was like, I love it. You know what I'm saying? She's representing me in this and I like Avril Lavigne, but I ain't never seen nobody doing that music that looked like me. So I think that's really. It's important.

B (36:23)

It's powerful.

A (36:24)

You know, black isn't a monolith. It is what it is. We bring what we are to it.

B (36:29)

Yes.

A (36:29)

So I really think that's important.

B (36:31)

Yeah.

A (36:31)

You also said in the Guardian that what's left out of a lot of songs is the growth on the other side of a breakup.

B (36:37)

Yeah.

A (36:38)

So let's talk about that. What does the other side of growth look like to you? And may just have to be a specific breakup because we know so many of us, so many things. So if you can, you know, like a lightweight where you are now.

B (36:51)

Yeah, baby.

A (36:53)

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B (38:26)

I think when I mentioned that, I was talking about the last song on my album days, and I love that song so much because it does mention, like the heartbreak aspect. But then I think sometimes you get out of situations and feel so much fuller, so much closer to yourself. Like, maybe that sparked conversation with your friends, and now y' all have a whole different layer to y' all relationship than you had before. Or maybe you feel smarter now. Or maybe you eat in the foods you like. You like to eat and you forgot that you like to eat. I don't know, like those small things that I think sometimes we forget about once we. We attach ourselves to a person. So just looking at the other side of it and seeing what did I gain out of leaving this situation is something I like to do.

A (39:14)

So important to always. I always talk about reframe is like, we can look if in life there's never gonna be a solid answer for much because there's not. You know, we wish it was, like, always true and false, but it's not. It's all perspective shifting. And if I have to live with myself every day and I have to decide how I feel about something, why would I pick the one that makes.

B (39:32)

Me feel like, the worst?

A (39:33)

Yeah, that feels crazy.

B (39:34)

I'm gonna pick.

A (39:36)

I pick the one that says, and you dodged a bullet.

B (39:39)

Exactly.

A (39:39)

And look at how much money you save.

B (39:41)

Right.

A (39:41)

You know, random. Look at the fact that you don't have to get a new hairdo for weeks, you know, whatever it might be to pick yourself up. So I think that's really important.

B (39:50)

Yeah.

A (39:51)

I'm curious. How did you find your team? Because I think with artists, that's a big difficulty. Right. Like, when everything aligns, I think not only does it align with time, but also aligns with, like, I got my stuff together. Yeah. So what was your journey of, like, did you immediately go to labels? Like, I don't know your situation, but what was your journey of finding your support system within music?

B (40:10)

It definitely took a while early on. Like, when I first started putting music out on SoundCloud, that's when labels started coming into the picture very early on. And I had had two managers in that time. But I remember feeling like I haven't found, like, my clan yet. And I think. I don't know, the more time passes, the more I understand my needs and what I want to. But my most recent manager, I've been with for, like, five years now, maybe six years.

A (40:45)

That's awesome.

B (40:46)

We met around the time I was kind of going through this like, emotional transformation. And I remember thinking, like, I feel like this person was brought into my life for a reason, and I want to see it through. I want to learn to trust again, because I felt like I had been burned in music.

A (41:05)

It really can be.

B (41:06)

Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of that was a healing thing for me and him. So. But now, like, with that anchor and, like, having been with him for six years, I feel like we're just attracting all the right people who are supposed to be a part of what we doing, so.

A (41:24)

And are you with the label, or did you have a different. I don't know. You're different.

B (41:27)

So I've been signed since I. I was, like, 16 to Atlantic. So that whole.

A (41:31)

Oh, my gosh, Atlantic, they gave me my first record deal at 12. Yeah, they weren't good with me. I'm so happy. I'm so happy for you. It's worked out for you. But, you know, Atlantic always was really good with art. Like, the reason why I wanted to sign was Brandy Ali, the soulful Earnest. Absolutely. So, you know, I mean, it does make sense, but it's interesting because it's easy to blame the labels, and I do think labels can be tough. But at the end of the day, it's about us and the system we have and how we can make the labels work with us. Especially when you're an artist that's coming in and you don't necessarily have any.

B (42:07)

Fit into one.

A (42:08)

Exactly. And then don't have, like, there's some people, you know, people try to call it. What is the name they have for it? Industry plants.

B (42:14)

Yeah.

A (42:14)

You know, not necessarily industry plants, but if you don't know anybody in the building or if you don't have any, you don't have no advocate. Anybody could get lost.

B (42:22)

Yes.

A (42:23)

So how do you feel like you found what power is for you? You know, as a young black woman in this industry, navigating corporations and also trying to.

B (42:32)

To.

A (42:32)

Yeah. Advocate for yourself.

B (42:34)

That's a big question.

A (42:36)

It's tough out here.

B (42:37)

I think I'm. I think I'm still figuring it out, but I think having a team that you believe in and that you trust is everything. You can walk into any building and feel, like, bulletproof. I think so. I think once I changed management and felt like I had a real advocate, and then my A and R at the time, who signed me, who I've been with forever, that was my advocate. But then he left maybe a year ago now. Austin Rice.

A (43:08)

Austin Rice.

B (43:08)

I'm definitely with him. He saw the vision Very early on. And I remember those people when nobody cared, nobody got it. That means the world to me. So. Yeah. But Atlantic went through a huge transformation, like a lot of labels.

A (43:25)

So what happened with them? Did people get fired?

B (43:29)

A lot of people got fired and they just read structuring.

A (43:32)

I guess you feel like it's no. No shade to those people. But do you feel like it's better now?

B (43:36)

I think there's a better system for sure. And there's a better, I don't know, understanding of even where I sit that I'm appreciative of.

A (43:47)

So I feel like in general, artists. Artists are in a better scenario than they were before because of social media. I know everybody talks about, oh, well, streaming doesn't do that. But I just mean, like, building your brand. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I really do credit Rihanna for that. Like, I think her shift of using digital as a way to narratively tell her story and be at the forefront of her brand, I think it's given so many people and artists in general, no matter what they do, whether it's acting, music, you know, whatever, tell their stories and be in front of it and get their fan base to follow them, even if the labels aren't pushing them. Right. And I'm sure you. I mean, with you starting with SoundCloud, you know that probably to be true. Right. So I think it's better than how when I first came in the industry, there was really no Internet or. I mean, it was the Internet, but it's like you just go onto somebody's website.

B (44:33)

Right.

A (44:33)

It's no more than that.

B (44:34)

And it's almost like if the label didn't make it happen, you got lost. Exactly. Versus, like, I can go online and post this song right now.

A (44:40)

Yeah. I feel really hopeful for artists today and just would. Would say to any of them is just like, whether you're signed, whether you're not signed.

B (44:47)

Yeah.

A (44:47)

Just push your brand, Tell the story of you, no matter who you're partnering with or not partner with. Cause that's really what counts.

B (44:55)

It's no rules right now. It's that rules that I think people are looking for.

A (44:58)

Yeah. Critics call you one of the best melody writers of our generation, and I completely agree. Where do you think that comes from? And how do melodies show up for you in the studio? Cause it's just so.

B (45:11)

Melody is my. When I first hear chord, chords are so important to me. I'll sit on chords for like an hour and be like, something not right. Something not right. Like, I. I Just I'm so. I don't know the process. Play. I don't play.

A (45:30)

Wow.

B (45:31)

I'll need to. But you could produce it based off.

A (45:33)

I mean, you do produce. You are producing. Hearing you talk like that.

B (45:36)

Yeah, like, in the. Yeah, I definitely give feedback and, like, I know what I want to hear as far as being a producer. But melody is everything to me. Like, when I hear a song of anybody's, I'm hearing melody first, and that's what draws me in. So. So I feel like, you know, when you got a special one or one that can live, if, like, you still thinking about it when you leave. And, like, you can be listening to the beat for hours, and you still come back to that melody. And usually the thing that sticks is the first thing I do, but for some reason, I don't think so. I had to have people telling me that, like, girl, you've been going for hours. But it was the first thing. So that, like, instincts. You a fan?

A (46:16)

Yeah. I mean, I know the person that I would love you to collaborate with. Cause I don't think you have Solange.

B (46:20)

Oh, I love Solange.

A (46:22)

Yeah, I would love. I mean, they already kind of forced the collab with y', all with the whole TikTok thing. That's how badly we all wanted it. But is there anybody on your wish list like, that you're like, I think me and this person would be cool. You know what I mean?

B (46:34)

So many people. I love Tyler, the creator, girl.

A (46:39)

You and Tyler, deep down to the gorge of rhyme. I'm like, his production, it's incredible. I can hear it.

B (46:46)

Love him. I Love, love Target Andre 3000. I love. Girl.

A (46:51)

We need to get him back on it.

B (46:53)

Come on. Even if it's just a little flute thing. I'll take that. I'll take that.

A (46:59)

I was listening to International Players the other day. Wouldn't that be a great wedding song?

B (47:02)

No, for real.

A (47:02)

I know it's crazy, but just imagine, you know what I mean? Walking down the aisle. Family and friends. It's fine.

B (47:11)

Family and Family and friends.

A (47:13)

You like?

B (47:16)

They got so many wedding songs, girl.

A (47:19)

Okay, so definitely him, them.

B (47:21)

I love so many of the girls right now. Tyla, I love.

A (47:25)

Yes.

B (47:26)

Olivia. Rodrigo. I love Olivia.

A (47:28)

You would cook something up. But she's also a great lyricist.

B (47:31)

Yeah.

A (47:31)

She great writer. Yeah. Yeah. That would be fire.

B (47:34)

She's amazing.

A (47:36)

I love the animation of.

B (47:39)

It's so many amazing artists right now. Dochi again, we have a song, but I would love to work for her again.

A (47:44)

Oh, my gosh. Yes.

B (47:46)

Just anybody who is themself right now. Yeah, that's what I'm into. Yeah.

A (47:50)

Everybody that you named, I think they very much have a clear sound and a clear storyline of what they're saying. And so do you. And I'm so happy that you came on the show. I'm not letting you go just yet. We have to play a little game. Okay. Yeah. It's called off the Hook. And it's like a little bit like, word association.

B (48:05)

Okay.

A (48:06)

And pretty much, I'm gonna give you a list of my songs, and I'm gonna have a list of your songs, and you're pretty much just gonna say the word, and we gotta sing the hook part of the song.

B (48:16)

Okay.

A (48:16)

So hopefully we remember it okay. When we say the words. Okay. Okay. So I'm gonna go first. Magic.

B (48:24)

When have I used.

A (48:28)

They could be wrong. The producers are wrong with y'. All. Let me do another one. Nothing. Let me do another. Let me do another one. Here we go.

B (48:34)

I'm sure I said Magic. Sticky. Spinning, spinning round and round. Sticky, sticky off the sticky.

A (48:41)

Hey, got it. Okay, give me one. That's one.

B (48:45)

We got Bossy.

A (48:48)

Oh.

B (48:50)

Why can't I remember my own damn thing?

A (48:55)

I know it, y', all, but my mind keeps thinking of something else. Oh, my gosh. Yes, exactly. Tommy Tuli, you ain't popping in this nude.

B (49:05)

Okay.

A (49:06)

Cash out with my jeweler. Why you sucking looking stupid? I'm winning while they losing. Get your cause he choosing. Okay, but I didn't say bossy to the end. Y' all know the damn song. Damn. Moving on. I told you it was gonna be hard.

B (49:20)

I'm like skin homie now Skin tight Are you round? Come bite. That's my song.

A (49:28)

Hell, yeah. Okay. I'm scared of mine.

B (49:30)

Okay, okay. Enemies.

A (49:35)

It ain't enough for me. I gotta be honest. I want you to lust for me. Enemies comes at some point.

B (49:43)

Is that funny? Fresh.

A (49:46)

When does it say, I hate this?

B (49:49)

I hate this?

A (49:50)

Isn't it so tough that it's like. And it's like, it's us. It's us. Y' all know?

B (49:56)

Yeah, it's embarrassing.

A (49:57)

I'd rather be enemies. Yeah, that's what it's about. There we go.

B (50:00)

Okay. Glass, Glass Fl me. It's me walking light on these Glass.

A (50:05)

Fls my tippy, my toe up.

B (50:07)

You know what I'm thinking? I think I. So I know that one.

A (50:11)

Melody Jelly feature.

B (50:12)

I know that one.

A (50:14)

Okay, I'll do my last one. Hands Go on a zula mama like you want to ooh I can't wait. That made me play like avenger. Let me return the favor. Do it. Hands free. There we go. Finally. Cause that was gon be crazy.

B (50:31)

That was tough.

A (50:32)

Thank you so much. Raven. You are amazing and I cannot wait to be at one of the shows that we own.

B (50:36)

Well, anyone let me know. We can twin out. I love you.

A (50:42)

I love you. You so awesome. Raven's not new to this. She's been put into work for years. From going viral to going deep in love, loss and famous. She's using her music to tell the whole truth. With her album bird's eye, she's showing us growth in real time and proving you don't have to fit into a box to break through. Keep your eyes on her because Raven Lynnae is just getting started. And baby, this is Keke Palmer. Baby, this is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Palma. Yeah, Baby, this is Keke Palmer. Is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Siegel is our post producer. Our producers are Lauren Hampton and Molly nestor. Hilary Esty McLaughlin is our executive producer. Production services provided by evolution media. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer for team Keke. My producer is Sharon Palmer for wondery. Our managing producer is Olivia Floyd. Senior managing producer is Nick Ryan. And our executive producers are Emily feldbrake, Erin o' flaherty and Marshall Louie.