The Art of Not Giving a F* with Taraji P. Henson

Summary

Summary: "The Art of Not Giving a F* with Taraji P. Henson"

Baby, This is Keke Palmer
Host: Keke Palmer
Guest: Taraji P. Henson
Release Date: August 27, 2025

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Episode Overview

This vibrant episode brings together two powerhouse women—Keke Palmer and Taraji P. Henson—for a candid, funny, and soulful conversation about self-worth, motherhood, legacy, mental health, and the freedom of unapologetically being yourself. Taraji shares wisdom from her formidable journey as an actor and mother, reflects on pivotal roles and battles against industry stereotypes, and offers insights on relationships, therapy, and "the art of not giving a f*". Expect lively storytelling, memorable quotes, real talk about the industry, and rich, shared experiences as Black women in entertainment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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Opening Banter & Early Connections

• Reminiscing: Keke and Taraji recall their first interaction when Keke was just 16 at a Mike Epps comedy show, highlighting their longstanding rapport.

  • [01:37] Taraji: “I’ve been running into you since you were like 16.”

• Vibes & Style Talk: They bond over fashion—mixing highs (Schiaparelli) and lows (Zara)—and the reality of shopping’s impact on finances.

  • [02:18] Taraji: “Highs and lows. That’s how you keep from going broke, man.”

• Gratitude & Energy: Both celebrate gratitude as an essential part of their daily mindset.

  • [02:42] Keke: “Today’s mood, in one word: grateful.”
  • [02:49] Taraji: “Any day I wake up on this side of the soil, I’m grateful.”

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Motherhood, Family, and Origins

• Dog Mom & Real Mom: Taraji introduces her Frenchies, Buddha and Zen, and shares how motherhood transformed her, both with her son Marcel and her pets.

  • [04:01] Taraji: “My fat Frenchies. …I think I became a real dog mom when I became a mom.”

• Losing Marcel’s Father: Taraji remembers her son’s dad and ties her personal life to roles she’s played, especially "Baby Boy" and its realness.

  • [05:32] Taraji: "When I look at him, it's just like I gotta pinch myself sometimes."

• Cycle of Generational Resilience: Taraji credits her parents for modeling toughness and determination, forging her path from Washington, DC to LA with only $700 and a small child.

  • [17:41] Taraji recounts her father’s saying: “Fear and fate can’t coexist. No, you gotta pick a side.”
  • [17:50] “The biggest moment was me deciding to move out to LA with just $700 in my pocket and my kid.”

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The Power of Arts & Representation

• Childhood Energy & Stage: Taraji’s vibrant personality channeled by her father and teachers led her to the stage—starting all the way back in kindergarten singing “The Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow”.

  • [15:21] “I just would not be still. …She needed that big mouth for the graduation!”

• Arts as Escape: She underlines how creative outlets kept her from negative statistics growing up, especially given her surroundings and school environment.

  • [16:36] “I got out. I made it. No windows.”

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Cooking, Travel, and Self-Care

• Culinary Passion: Taraji is a devoted home cook, enthusiastic about recipes and sharing love through food.

  • [07:42] “Someone asked me a while ago, how do you show love? I said, I cook.”

• Friendship & Retreats: She prioritizes annual girlfriend getaways and values the power of well-planned rest—a true Virgo!

  • [08:47] On group trips: “I’m the planner.”

• The Magic of Solo Travel: Taraji details her month-long healing journey in Bali—hot yoga, sound baths, and breakthroughs.

  • [09:53] “When I went the first time, I was there for a month.”
  • [10:20] “…a priestess prayed over me, moved a lot of negative energy out of my body.”

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Career Milestones & Industry Realities

• Broadway Dreams Realized: After years in film and TV, Taraji shares her excitement about making her Broadway debut, marking a full-circle moment with mentor Debbie Allen.

  • [12:59] “I just knew that I didn’t want to struggle in New York with a kid. …But, you know, theater is always around.”

• Breaking Out & Being Pigeonholed: The conversation explores typecasting in Hollywood. Taraji has had to repeatedly prove her range but never compromises her artistic integrity.

  • [31:14] “They sent me every ghetto baby mama… I’m really classically trained, guys. Shakespeare, you know?”
  • [32:46] “When I did Empire… so many other things came. …That got them away from trying to pigeonhole me.”

• Empire, Cookie, and Mainstream Disruption:

  • Relating her initial hesitation with playing Cookie (“I was scared of her…” [29:07]), Taraji explains her process of humanizing the character, which revolutionized her visibility and industry opportunities.
  • [30:26] “Terrence Howard has to be Lucious or I can't do this.”
  • After Empire, her options—and power as a producer—expanded.

• Legacy & Black Women Leading

  • Taraji and Keke discuss the impact of stories fronted by Black women, the difference in opportunities for Black women versus men in Hollywood, and their turn to producing and entrepreneurship for agency.
  • [49:16] Taraji: "They get paid more than us. …But now you have women like myself and Keke taking control and producing and doing our own thing."

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Mental Health Advocacy

• The Boris Lawrence Henson Foundation:

  • Inspired by her father’s struggles and the lack of resources, Taraji started her foundation to destigmatize mental health issues and expand access, especially for Black communities.
  • [24:09] “Watching him struggle and knowing that the resources just weren’t resourcing.”
  • Taraji expresses deep concern about rising youth suicide rates and the urgency of normalizing emotional complexity.

• Peace of Mind Talk Show:

  • Created to further open conversations, targeting taboo subjects and inviting her audience to see themselves in honest stories of mental struggle and healing.
  • [48:18] "The urgency to get our community to talk about mental wealth."

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Love, Relationships & The Art of Not Giving a F*

• Dating in the Spotlight:

  • Taraji is unfiltered about dating as a successful Black woman in entertainment—the double standards, the challenge of authenticity, and choosing peace over disruption.
  • [22:15] “Been there, did it, done it, not sure if I would go back.”
  • [45:02] “I have fought to get this peace that I have. …I protect it fiercely.”

• On Growth:

  • Both women share how their priorities and ‘taste’ in relationships have evolved, gravitating away from trauma bonds and toward self-sufficiency and joy.
  • [44:47] Taraji: “Now you’re talking. …I have fought to get this peace that I have… I protect it fiercely.”

• On Not Giving a F*:

  • Taraji joyously claims the freedom that comes with age and hard-earned boundaries.
  • [53:39] Keke: “Things I learned at 50 that I wish I learned at 30.”
  • [53:42] Taraji: “To not give a f**.”*
  • [54:14] “When you get 50, I don’t give a f**… No is my favorite word.”*

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Breaking Out
  [31:14] Taraji: “They sent me every ghetto baby mama, and I was like, I’m really classically trained, guys. Shakespeare, you know?”

• On Motherhood and Focus
  [36:32] Taraji: “I didn’t have time to waste… I had to focus on how to get to this money. Cause I want a better life for my son.”

• On Self-Worth and the Industry
  [50:54] Keke: “…While these challenges are very real and true. Get in the driver’s seat and buckle up that part. Create multiple lanes.”
  [51:02] Taraji: “Build the doors to open. Don’t be stopped knocking at a door.”

• On Not Giving a F*
  [53:42] Taraji: “To not give a f**.”*
  [54:33] Keke: “How do we get engaged with it sooner?”
  [54:35] Taraji: “It comes with time. When you get to 50, you’re closer to the end than you are to the beginning. So I just can’t worry about what other people — I don’t have that kind of time anymore.”

• On Boundaries and Peace
  [46:01] Taraji: “If you spend the night, pack your up in your bag the next day and take it with you. Cause I don’t even have a drawer for you.”
  [45:02] “I have fought to find, get this peace that I have. …I protect it fiercely.”

• On Relationships Past and Present
  [43:48] Taraji: “The good boys, I was into them. Let me get quiet… I like the bad boys. I was into them.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:54 – Frenchie dogs, motherhood, and generational stories
• 09:53 – Bali solo trip and wellness
• 12:59 – Why Taraji put off Broadway; balancing motherhood and ambition
• 17:41 – “Fear and fate can’t coexist”—on risk and moving to LA
• 24:09 – Mental health and the Boris Lawrence Henson Foundation
• 31:14 – Typecasting and breaking out in Hollywood
• 32:54 – Empire, Cookie Lyon, and expanding her range
• 36:32 – How motherhood focused Taraji’s drive
• 44:47 – The sacredness of peace and boundaries in her 50s
• 53:42 – On not giving a f*, learning to say "No" with freedom
• 54:35 – Embracing your own time and living fully

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Game Segment: "What Would Taraji Do?" (51:18–55:02)

• Texting Your Ex: “Change the number. New line. Who?”
• Key to Thirst Trap: “Show the assets, but leave something to the imagination.”
• Bag Essentials: “Lip therapy, a lotion, and some Kleenex. For sure.”
• First Move (without making it): “Flirt and then make them feel like they did it all themselves.”
• Dealing with Friends Who Tell Your Business: “Are we cussing that out? She might come up missing.”
• Thing Learned at 50: “To not give a f*.”

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Episode Takeaways

• Prioritize Your Peace: The central lesson for both Taraji and Keke is that real strength comes from protecting your peace—whether that means saying no, setting boundaries, or not apologizing for your joy or ambition.
• Legacy is Living: From mental health advocacy to Broadway dreams, Taraji underscores that it’s never too late to realize goals, but you must own your narrative.
• Motherhood as Motivation: Both women reaffirm that motherhood can clarify, not diminish, one’s ambition.
• Unapologetic Authenticity: As Taraji says, the ultimate flex is being your truest self, and “not giving a f*” gets easier—and sweeter—with time.

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This conversation is a blueprint for living boldly, joyfully, and unapologetically—especially for Black women carving out their own spaces in life and art.

Transcript

[A]

Wondering.

[B]

She's played everyone from Yvette and Baby Boy to Katherine Johnson in Hidden Figures and of course the one and only Cookie Lyin. But Taraji P. Henson isn't just a powerhouse on screen. She's also been a bold voice for mental health, self worth and protecting your peace. Today, she's bringing that voice to our conversation, talking love and relationships. Her advice for me as a working mom, early side hustles and what it means when a story led by a black woman takes over the world. Let's get into it cause baby this is Keke Palmer. No matter what we doin in the car Just chillin pop on Amazon music Sit back and listen. Life, love, sex, science, hovering it all especially the bad Cause money always evolves no matter what it is we gon make it make sense Nothing else to do but kick it with the homies and kings so grab you a drink and a snack you enjoy and get into the vibe that only wants you know it's your girl. This is Kiki, baby. This is Kiki Palma. Yeah. This episode is presented in partnership with Airbnb, where summer adventures feel like a home away from home. Speaking of unforgettable moments. Well, you'll see. Let's start the show. The Taraji P. Henson in the house. On baby, this is Keke Palmer. I am so happy to have one of my favorite Virgos of all time in the building. Yay.

[A]

Thanks for having me.

[B]

Oh my gosh. We always are seeing each other out and about. I don't know what we are somebody's concert. I mean, I just feel like we always sing each other out.

[A]

I've been seeing running into you since you were like 16.

[B]

The first time was at the Mike Epps comedy show.

[A]

It was Mike Epps. Cause I couldn't remember if it was Mike or Kevin.

[B]

And you had eaten that Bob at the front row.

[A]

Yes. And I was like, this baby knows comedy. Look at her checking out the comedy shows. Girl, you were 16.

[B]

Yeah. Ever since I was literally like I'm sitting next to Taraji P. Hempson, I was living my best life and I feel the same way right now. Thank you for coming. Now I'm excited to get into these pre show pull up questionnaire to see what type of energy we're giving and I'm already loving the first thing today I'm giving Schiaparelli because. Yes, fabulous with the side of Zara. We love Zara.

[A]

I do. Highs and lows. That's how you keep from going broke, man.

[B]

We was just talking about how the shopping will literally have you in a chokehold. But I feel like we should be able to write that off. It's a part of our career.

[A]

Yeah, they changed it a couple of years back. It has to be like, costumey.

[B]

Isn't that crazy?

[A]

Like you can't be able to wear it on the street, but it's like.

[B]

I am a costume. I need a costume. I mean, to be Keke Palmer.

[A]

Kiki, I'm with you, babe. You know I'm with you.

[B]

Today's mood. In one word, grateful.

[A]

Always.

[B]

Always. Gratitude. It makes everything better. Especially when things are hard. For sure.

[A]

Any day I wake up on this side of the soil, I'm grateful.

[B]

Amen. What did you listen to on the ride here? Ratchet hip hop. I love that. It's just the genre in itself. Yeah, we didn't say any particular song. It's just ratchet hip hop. But put the playlist on.

[A]

Just play it so I can stay up.

[B]

Are you a night owl or are you a morning person?

[A]

It depends on what time I went to bed.

[B]

Yeah. As I've gotten older, I'm trying to be in the bed at the latest. And I know that's crazy. Cause how are you getting there? You know what I mean? When you have to work and everything. But I wanna sleep so I can get up early.

[A]

That's cute. You know what's good? A good night for me in bed.

[B]

By 7pm and that's even better. Ooh, that's like, oh my gosh, my life is made. I.

[A]

Because guess what? I stop answering the calls. I stop it with the emails. As soon as my housekeeper leave, I'll be closing the blinds.

[B]

I mean, because you're gonna get maximum rest and you have time to pour into you. You can run, you can watch a little something, you know what I mean? You don't have to go straight to sleep.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Like, I really appreciate that. Okay, one thing that instantly makes you laugh. My fat Frenchies. How many do you have? Two. Oh my gosh. How old are they?

[A]

Buddha is two. Come on, Buddha. Zen will be one in December.

[B]

First of all, I love that they're all about peace. We've got Buddha and we got Zen.

[A]

They have to grow into their names. Uh oh, especially Zen.

[B]

Have you always been a dog person?

[A]

Yeah, I was when I was a kid. And then I think I became a real dog mom when I became a mom. Cause I got my first dog that I owned, not my parents, when Marcel was like five.

[B]

Shout out To Marcel. How old is Marcel?

[A]

Older than you.

[B]

No, really.

[A]

Maybe 31.

[B]

I'm 31. We the same age?

[A]

Same age. Mm. Mm.

[B]

Wow. Shout out to Marcel. You know, I'm a boy mom now.

[A]

I know it's the best, and it's the best.

[B]

Girl.

[A]

We just went to lunch yesterday, me and my handsome man.

[B]

How crazy is that? Now that you. I mean, the conversations that you guys probably have are so maybe similar, but different because he's an adult.

[A]

He teaches me a lot. Like, the shoe is on the other foot now.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah, he teaches me a lot.

[B]

Do you see yourself reflected a lot in him or, like, your parents? Like, who does he most remind you physically?

[A]

His face is cut and paste of his dad. Wow. Like, it's crazy because, you know, his dad passed when he was 34. Oh, my gosh. So Marcel's 31. He's really, like. When I look at him, it's just like I gotta pinch myself sometimes.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Were you and his dad together when he passed?

[A]

No, we had already broken up and I was living here in LA and. Cause it was like. I remember reading Baby Boy, and I said to John Singleton, I said, you've been following me. Like, this is my life. This is literally my life. The car, him borrowing the car, all of that. We were young and dumb, and you know how it is.

[B]

I mean, in that movie, like, we. That movie is such a cultural classic, but when you really get down, it also talks about the systems of oppress. You know, it's about the systems of oppression and how young men, black men specifically, become infantilized because of the system. And then the. And the moms and the things, you know, so as I've gotten older, that's.

[A]

Why it won't go away, girl. Yeah.

[B]

And it's like, baby Boy. Like, these are the baby boys of the community. How do we help them evolve through that? You know, these crutches? So that movie is like. I mean, obviously it's one of your most iconic roles. One of my favorite roles that you've done. But the last question before we get into everything I want to talk with you about is your last screenshot on your phone.

[A]

Oh, I love recipes.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

So that's my algorithm. So it was probably a recipe. I have this new app called I Shouldn't Be Giving these People Free, Please. But it's called Resy Me. Resy Me. R E S Y R E R E C I M E. Something like that. I'll show you when I leave. And so what happens is, if you're on Instagram or if you look up a recipe, you can save it to this app, and it'll put it all in the dimensions and the measurements and all the directions and instructions all in one app.

[B]

So you like to cook? I love to cook, girl. I love to cook, and I want to be able to cook more. You know what I mean? Because it takes time to sit there and do it and get on, but it's one of my favorite things to do. I love looking up videos online.

[A]

I want to take a culinary class.

[B]

Me.

[A]

I saw Tiana the other day. I'm so inspired by her because I really want to take one. I watched her, and Karrueche took one, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm so inspired.

[B]

I mean, I just love. It's very meditative.

[A]

It is.

[B]

And it also feels good when you know you can feed your loved ones. Yes.

[A]

Someone asked me a while ago, how do you show love? I said, I cook because everything from having to go to the store, figure out the whole rest, you know, the meal for the night. Do you have a go to love?

[B]

Do I have a go to, like, for, like. When you say, like, boom. I'm cooking this one for the first time with these people. Like, this is the Taraji P. Henson meal.

[A]

For me. It's about a feeling. I love to make. I just learned that means you can cook for real. Well, I mean, I do pretty much.

[B]

I'll be going in with a whole. Okay, so then this measuring.

[A]

No, I do measure, and then I have dishes that I can make off the top. What I've been making for years. Like a lasagna. I make lasagna. Like an old Italian grandmother.

[B]

Girl, I'm coming to the house. I'm coming to the house.

[A]

Please do.

[B]

Now, I mean, you also travel. Because I just seen this St. Lucia trip, girl, and I'm trying to figure out, how do I get an invite? Cause you were living large. Yes.

[A]

I just like to do that. That girlfriend's thing now.

[B]

Which one are you? Are you the one planning everything? Are you the one late to the van? Like, who are you?

[A]

I'm the planner.

[B]

Come on, Virgo.

[A]

You know how we do. Yes.

[B]

We need it to be right.

[A]

It has to be right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So how was the trip? I was amazing.

[A]

It was amazing. I was only there for four days. Trying to find time to stay away is the issue, but four days, I was grateful the Windjammer had us there. It was amazing. We went to this small town called San Fria and It's in a volcano. Have you ever been to a volcano before?

[B]

No, and I've never been to St. Lucia.

[A]

You have to go. It is so beautiful. It's this cute. Sonfreya is this beautiful town right on the edge of the. In between these two peaks, these mountains. It looks fake. And to see it's all black people. Because you usually. You go see. You'll see a town like that in Scotland, on Amalfi coast, or in Italy or somewhere like that. But this is black people. Like, it was like. It was, like, magical.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Well, you also visited a place that I felt is very magical. You did a solo trip in Bali. I've always wanted to do solo trips, and I've always wanted to go to Bali and, you know, tell me about your experience. Cause you said it was very peaceful. You came back with a different vibe. How long were you there on that trip?

[A]

When I went the first time, I was there for a month.

[B]

Oh, my.

[A]

Yeah, you need that because it's so far. It's so far. It's like, depending on the route you take, it's like 24 hours of traveling. So you really need more than two weeks to really get your bearings, you know, get that time clock right and so you can enjoy it.

[B]

So did you have any, like. Of the. Cause I know there's obviously a big culture of wellness there. Did you do anything specific?

[A]

Oh, I did a lot of hot yoga. I did a healing where a priestess prayed over me. Moved a lot of negative energy out of my body. Sound bowls. I did sound. I mean, that's literally where you go to eat, pray, love when I tell you.

[B]

I love all that stuff. I did my first kind of thing like that in Sedona when I was like, 18. And this lady was beating on my damn chest so hard. I didn't know if I was crying. Cause I was releasing or if I was in pain. But I was like, keep beating, mama.

[A]

She was moving something up. I was gonna drown me. She kept throwing water in my face. And I was like. But it worked. I felt lighter.

[B]

You know what I mean? Right.

[A]

It's like. I don't know if it was.

[B]

Cause I was fighting for my life.

[A]

Here or fighting my life here.

[B]

Either way, we gonna figure it. You're already Tony nominated for Jaja's African hair braiding on Broadway. Thank you. Congratulations on that.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

But you're getting ready to actually do your Broadway debut with Debbie Allen. That's exciting. How you feeling about that?

[A]

I'm excited. You know I went to Howard University, the Mecca a. You. You know, and I studied theater. And actually, August Wilson came to speak to us when I was in my first acting class. We got a lot of Ozzie Davis, Ruby Dee. Phylicia Rashad came back, and, you know, she and Debbie Allen are alumni. So for me, it's 360. Cause, you know, it's crazy. It's crazy. I won the Debbie Allen and Phylicia Rashad when I was six months pregnant. I needed to finish school, I had no money. And I auditioned for the Triple Threat Award in honor of their father, Andrew Allen, and I won it. So I was able to finish school. So two. You know, I've worked with her, with Debbie Allen, in the beginnings of my career when I was on this Lifetime television show called the Division. She played my mom. Her and Sally Struthers, they were a lesbian couple who raised me. And Debbie Allen was my birth mom. And so then. And then she came and directed some episodes of Empire. And then now she's gonna. And I directed on a sitcom, like, I forget half and half years ago. I love that. So she's been like, yeah, exactly.

[B]

Girl. You did Sister Sister, too. I mean, I loved when I'm watching, like, a sitcom and, like, you see the.

[A]

Right. I was busy back then. Okay.

[B]

But what's so interesting to me was that this was your first Broadway debut. I know that. I mean, like you said, you did theater. Did Broadway. Did film just come at you so fast, Film and tv, that you didn't get a chance to really invest in the theater scene as much in that way?

[A]

No, no theater. Well, when I became a mom in college, I just knew that I didn't want to struggle in New York with a kid. I felt like the cost of living would have been a little tough for me being a single mother. So I think moving to LA was the right choice. But, you know, theater is always around. Like, I've always gotten offers. The timing. The timing just was never right for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so this time it's perfect.

[B]

You know, what do you think that this character offers you that other characters have? And, I mean, you've played the gamut comedy, drama. I mean, there's so many different nuances you can tap into. Which one is this character you think gonna be feeding?

[A]

Well, my love for August Wilson and what he did, you know. Cause I studied so many of his plays in college, and I did so many of the monologues for classes and things like that. So to actually do it in a real way, a Major way on Broadway. It's just. Again, it's 360 for me. It's just like, when does it start?

[B]

Cause I can't wait to come see it. I mean, I love the theater.

[A]

Yeah, me too. We start rehearsals the end of February.

[B]

2026. I'm coming to see you. Joe Turner's coming.

[A]

Gone.

[B]

It's gonna be amazing. 2026. Looking forward to seeing that. Now, you've described yourself as the quirky girl in the hood, so I need to go back to what little Taraji was like. I mean, what area did you grow up? Grow up?

[A]

I know you're from Washington, dc, dc.

[B]

That's what I thought. Okay, so what was it like for you as a kid growing up in dc?

[A]

I was very rambunctious. I had a very big personality that was nurtured specifically by my dad. Cause he was very big personality. I was just given. I was free to just be me. My family would sit and I would entertain them. I mean, they. I was always like, baby magic. Like, that's the best way to put it. Just probably undiagnosed adhd, right?

[B]

Seriously, I relate.

[A]

But my dad noticed that in me at a very young age and started, like, you know, funneling me through the arts. And literally, that's why I didn't. I never became a statistic. You know, I wasn't supposed to make it out the hood.

[B]

That was gonna be. My next question is, when did the arts find you, you know? And what was your first realization that you, like, Was it singing? Was it your humor? When did you realize that? Oh, I have a talent.

[A]

I think, honestly, I'm 50. I'll be 55, 9, 11. And I still remember kindergarten. I was very rambunctious child. And it was specific teachers in my life. My kindergarten teacher, I can't remember her name, but she put me on stage for the first time because I just would not be still. I wouldn't keep my mouth shut. And she needed that big mouth for the graduation. And I sang the Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow. And I remember I did something at the mic, something funny or something, and the audience laughed. And I was like. I felt that power, you know, I remember that feeling in kindergarten. Then again in the fifth grade. This was back when teachers could spank the kids, which is crazy.

[B]

My daddy told me about that.

[A]

Oh, yeah. My mother gave them all the permission. Whoop her ass.

[B]

Oh, sh.

[A]

And so in the fifth grade, I wasn't a bad kid. I just had all of this energy, and it just needed to be Channeled. And so my fifth grade teacher, Mrs. Lane, I'll never forget her, put me on the stage for the first time. And I had to play the Queen of Hearts in some play. And I. Again, that feeling that I had in kindergarten came rushing back. And then again in the seventh grade, I was in this horrible ghetto ass school called Friendship. It was a school without walls.

[B]

The school was called Friendship.

[A]

Friendship, that name is even. But it was a school without walls or windows.

[B]

So what y' all was doing, y'.

[A]

All was at the Grove, basically.

[B]

That was crazy.

[A]

It was like. The windows were like four by fours really thick. You couldn't see out of them. It literally was the pipeline to prison.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. And they be. It was getting.

[A]

Yeah, right. Especially cause it was in the hood. Oh, absolutely. So we had the grade school. Young kids were like, down in the basement. It was the weirdest setup ever.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

No windows. So if the class clown across the hall acts up, the whole floor is disrupted. It was a mess, but I got out. I made it. No windows. Yeah. She introduced me to Shakespeare. Ms. Hawkins, in the seventh grade.

[B]

Shakespeare.

[A]

Shakespeare in the hood. Y' all hear me? Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I mean, what do you think about those early days that shaped you? There's a cool quote that in Glamour magazine where you spoke about your father. He said, fear and fate can't coexist. No, you gotta pick a side.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

I mean, what's an example, whether early or even into, you know, now, where you feel like fate showed up for you or that you chose fate over fear?

[A]

I'd say the biggest moment was me deciding to move out to LA with just $700 in my pocket and my kid.

[B]

I mean, me, when I was just like, thinking about that again. It's different when you hear stuff like that and you're not a mom. You know what I'm saying? It's just like mothers can do anything, you know? But when you become a mom, you realize that's. That's crazy, girl.

[A]

No, People thought I was crazy, but I just know me, and I know that I'm gonna make a way. I just. That's what I do, you know? I watched my father make a way. I watched my mother make a way. Like it was all around me. I had incredible examples right in my life. Like, I didn't have to look to the stars. It was right around me. My mother left the south at 18 and literally worked her way up from the basement to corporate America. So, you know, I was watching this. So all I did was just do what was shown to me, you know, my mom never gave up. She worked hard. My dad worked hard. I was like, oh, I just gotta work hard and apply myself. Like, literally. That was it. Wow.

[B]

So, I mean, what were those early days, like, coming in? How soon did you find your community? Like, did the young actors and actresses hang out? Like, did y' all have a way that y' all got together in la? In la?

[A]

Yes. Oh, yeah. Cause we would hear, like, so and so moved to la. So, you know, Howard is a big community.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's all it was.

[B]

It was school connections, too.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And I know. Did you date Hill Harper?

[A]

Who said that? What is that?

[B]

Some tea that I sipped during my.

[A]

Research a long time ago, child. Girl, were you even born now?

[B]

Why she had to get me together like that? She didn't have to do that. I was right there with Marcella. You were.

[A]

You were. You were little. He doesn't remember.

[B]

I mean, what was it like dating entertainers? Like, I mean. Cause that's something I've never. I guess I've dated an entertainer before, but it's different, you know?

[A]

How do I say this?

[B]

Baby, this is icy Palma. Yeah, baby. I had a vision so clear, it hit me like a pool noodle to the face. My perfect Labor Day weekend laid out in hd. There I am, floating like a queen on my inflatable throne at Golden Hour, when the smell of something heavenly hits my nose. My best friend is in the kitchen of our Airbnb, channeling her inner Gordon Ramsay, but with actual seasoning, not a sad. She's serving up her best attempt at recreating one of the lovely Chef Teeny's recipe. Hey, girl. Last summer, I booked one of those gorgeous Airbnbs that I found through their guest favorites. If I had a gourmet kitchen for our potluck dinners and a huge living room from where we could spread out for our game night and catch up. During the day, we were lounging by our private pool, and at night, we were stargazing from the deck with snacks and stories. That's the magic of Airbnb. You get these perfect spaces to really connect with your friends. If you're planning an end of summer getaway, consider an Airbnb guest favorite. These are some of the most highly rated homes on Airbnb, perfect for group trips or family vacations. I mean, you get more space, privacy, and better locations than you can shake a vacation selfie stick at. Grab your popcorn and sip a little something, because I'm going To need my girls. Every Wednesday to watch Tyler Perry's sisters at 9, 8 Central on BET. Listen to this. With the stress of jobs, relationships and jealousy, everyone is on the edge of their breaking point. The drama is more intense than ever and the bonds of sisterhood are being tested like never before. These women thought they had it all figured out. But honey, life had other plans. Between secret romances, workplace rivalries and friendships hanging on by a thread, anything can happen. And the sister circle may never be the same. Y', all, when I tell you this season is serving everything we need. Tears, laughter, romance, and those jaw dropping moments that'll have you texting your group chat at midnight. Now that sounds like my kind of show. Watch new episodes of Tyler Perry's sisters Wednesday at 9, 8 Central, only on BET. Trust me, you don't want to miss.

[A]

Has its challenges. Yeah, yeah, it does. Yeah. Been there, did it, done it, not sure if I would go back.

[B]

Girl, isn't it so crazy? You know what I mean? Yeah, I do.

[A]

It's just, I think for me and you never know how love is gonna come. So I'm not telling you anything, just do what you doing. But you know. Yeah, for sure. But it's just like I'd rather have a. A different conversation at home.

[B]

Yes. You know what I mean? But then we run into this thing where it's this double standard. At least I feel, you know, when as a successful woman that ends up being a thorn in the side in your dating life. That too for some reason.

[A]

But it has to be someone who can, who understands what you do and champions it like it's not in competition, wants to see you thrive, don't want to get in your lane, you know, and they exist, you know, it's just, where are they?

[B]

No, seriously, it's true. It's a conversation I think about often. I always talk about it with successful women and women in our industry because it's different for the guys. I mean, no one cares if they found somebody, you know, crazy girls, it doesn't matter. It's not looked at any way. You know what I mean? But for us, it's a total different thing because we have to deal with the gender biases and like you said, the competition, which, you know, it shouldn't be there, but it's a thing. I do wanna talk about you honoring your father's legacy with the Boris Lawrence Foundation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's centered around mental health. I wanna just talk a little bit about what made you start that and.

[A]

How it's been going well, my dad had his challenges. He's a Vietnam vet and he was very hard on his sleeve. He, you know, talked, shared everything. He didn't hide anything from me. And just watching him struggle and knowing that the resources just weren't resourcing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then I become a mom to a young black boy and he's getting older and the rose colored glasses come off and he realizes, I'm a black man in America and I don't know what to do with that. I'm not a black man. And we started having our struggles and it was time to go for help, look for help. Cause I can afford it, you know, thank God. But then I thought about a community of people who can't. Not only not can't afford it, but won't even talk about it. So I just felt like. And then the more research I did and finding out the statistics and the numbers of the ages of children who contemplate suicide or die by suicide, and the number is getting, the age is getting younger and younger and younger. We're talking like five year olds contemplating life and death.

[B]

It's so insane to me when I see that and I don't know the.

[A]

Reason why I couldn't sit idly. I couldn't. I had to do something. And so that's how the Boris Lawrence Henson foundation was born.

[B]

I think it's so good that we talk about, you know, thank you for doing that work. Because I think it's so important that we talk about that and we continue to normalize it because I do think we, we live in a society in general. Like, I'm not even gonna put social media and all that stuff into it just yet. We live in a society in life as human beings where we think we're supposed to be happy all the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know that happiness is a baseline and it's just not. Some people just can be born with a melancholic orientation where it's just, you're just more so melancholic. You know what I mean? There's nothing wrong with that. That's okay. But it's when we are told that we should be a certain way, we should be like this, that becomes a problem. And then we add in social media and as a young person comparing my life and should I be doing this or should I be doing that? And it's like, guys, sometimes you're gonna get depressed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not stopping the depression, it's navigating your way through it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And, you know, leaning in and learning and teaching Yourself how to deal with those waves. Because I think the more that we talk about it, the normalizing it begins. And people don't have to fight those negative emotions as much. Because it's just life.

[A]

It is what it is. It is like life is gonna life. You're gonna have ups and downs. Some days are gonna be better than others. That's just life.

[B]

It really is. It really is. Now, you've worn a lot of different hats. It was cool getting into this. Like you worked at the Pentagon before you started really full time acting. You were substitute teaching. You even did sing. Yeah. That would sound very fun. I feel like you was eating it up. Now. What do you think your experience was like with all those jobs, how they kind of helped you in your career now?

[A]

Well, I just think for me, it's always about people watching all the different people that I interacted with. And lots of characters, you know, especially. Especially when you're a waitress. Cause everybody gets full. They're drinking and they get loose. So a lot of characters. I've done a lot of interesting character study. Wow. In all these different jobs. Because I always saw myself as an actress and it was just. I'm doing this in the interim. So I was always collecting, you know, work. Collecting a bag of characters to use anytime. Cause I knew I would have to.

[B]

What did you feel your breakout role was? Cause obviously you. I mean, for many of us, we like oh, Baby Boy. But what do you think that was the one for you where you feel like people really got to see.

[A]

No, it wasn't Baby Boy, because Baby Boy, they thought that John Singleton found me somewhere off the street.

[B]

I mean, the character was so real. All your characters are.

[A]

Thank you. I don't know. I think I'm still having breakthrough moments. I don't know, because, you know, like, yes, I've done theater, but, you know, my core audience really, they haven't seen me. So that's another breakout moment. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yes, yes. I mean, but also, we gotta talk about the breakout moment of not just you, Taraji, but TV in general. When y' all did Empire. Oh, that. Absolutely. And when you played Cookie, because, I mean, it changed tv. It changed the conversation. People weren't even watching. I mean, even Lee Daniels just doing tv. So I have to talk to you about that time. And did you initially like the character Cookie?

[A]

Did you see that?

[B]

Yeah. Like, let's talk about that beginning. And what made you say yes? Because thank goodness you did.

[A]

Thank you. I was actually doing a play in Pasadena.

[B]

Oh, You. I grew up there.

[A]

Yeah. So I had Pasadena Playhouse, actually. And so I had just left Person of Interest, and I decided I didn't really like tv. It felt a bit too corporate, and I didn't like it. And so I was turned off. And my manager at the time kept telling me about this script empire. You need to read the script. And I was like, I'm doing theater to see if I even still love what I do. Leave me alone. I'm not reading this script. It's stupid.

[B]

Mm, no. I mean, that's how it can feel after you've been doing it long enough, you know?

[A]

And so I literally didn't. I would not read the script. And he kept calling me, saying, fox is there. Fox? I'm like, fox who? He's like, fox execs.

[B]

They're there to see the play.

[A]

Every night, somebody from Fox would come, and I would have to go out to them. And so finally. Right. So I made them come to me. So finally I got home, and I. I don't know if theater before, but it takes up all of your time. You literally have no time. And so one night I went home and I started reading the script, and I was like, this is dumb hip hop. This is stupid. And then Cookie gets out of jail. And I was like, wait a minute. I was like, oh, okay, I can dig it. I like it. But I was scared of her because, you know, played wrong. She could just come off as a stereotypical black, sassy, loudmouth, black woman. And that's never my intention. It's always to make real people breathe life into these characters so someone out in the world can see themselves reflected in these characters I portray. So I read it, and once I started doing my research and I started getting to the why. It's always a why a person is the way they are. And if you play that, that's the truth, then the audience will then feel empathy or care about the character, you know? Cause there's always a why. So once I got to her why, I was like, oh, I can see myself doing this. But then I was like, terrence Howard has to be Lucious or I can't do this.

[B]

And you knew from, like, was that you coming in and saying it, or did they?

[A]

I said it to Lee Daniels on a zoom.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And I said, I will do this, but it has to be with Terrance. If you can't get Terrence, I'm cool. And I closed the computer, and next thing I know, they're calling me and Terrence in for a chemistry read. I was like, I don't have to do a chemistry read with this dude. I told you to hire him. But anyway. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

I mean, how did that impact your career? I mean, like, I know we've seen it, and we were there, but, like, what kind of roles were you being offered after you seen. After people saw you do Cookie? Like, how did it impact what people saw that you could do?

[A]

It's interesting because when you're first getting started, when you do something really well, then they kind of just send you a lot of scripts like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it happened when I did Baby Boy. They sent me every ghetto baby mama, and I was like, I'm really classically trained, guys. Shakespeare, you know? Then again, it happened. I did. They just couldn't figure me out, I guess. I think they still trying to. But I did hit not Hidden Figures. I did Benjamin Button. And then, like, I got two other scripts where I played an aged mother, and I'm like, guys, I did this already.

[B]

Like, you know, Hollywood does do that.

[A]

They will do that, right?

[B]

Yeah, they.

[A]

It's like, I've already done this. You've seen me. Why would you even want to see me do this again?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, and so that started happening. Happening a lot. And then when I did Empire, so many other things came out. Like, Hidden Figures came. Proud. Like, so many other things came. That kind of sound cool. Yeah. That kind of got them away from trying to pigeonhole me, you know what I mean? And I had to fight for that. Like, it was turning down a lot of things and just, like, knowing, like, when you're trained in theater, you know, what a script should look like? You know, by page 10, if I'm not feeling something, nine times out of 10, it's not a good script. You know what I mean? So because I've studied literature, I know what a good script. Now. I can't control the director or the direction, but I do what I do with the script, you know, as the actor. And the rest is up to what y' all do in the editing room. I have no control over that. Yeah. You know, so, yeah, I think after Cookie, that's when things, like, really changed for me. Yeah.

[B]

And you were in not just the actor's seat, but the producer's seat.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

You were able to change the trajectory. I love seeing you and Tyler together. Acrimony's also one of my favorites of yours. I love that movie.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And then now you guys just broke records. I mean, 50 million views in the second week for strong. So congratulations on that. But my real thing with the movie is when I'm watching, it was like, this is really a message of where we are also in the world right now. Whether you're a mother, whether you have a sick child, wherever you are. We all are at that last straw. And we thought the last straw was, oh, the convenience store. We kept thinking it's like, no, the last straw started at the top. It started at the beginning. So what drew you to it? Cause it's a very impactful piece, and I think something that, again, like I said, everybody can relate to. It's hard out here.

[A]

I love Tyler. I really enjoy working with that man. And he sends me so many scripts. You know, he's like, I got this. And, you know, I'm really good at knowing what's good for me. And when it's someone else's blessing, I'm really good with that. It's like. I'm like, tyler, I don't think this is for me. I think this might be somebody else's blessing. Then he doesn't stop, though. That makes him go back to the joy. But he came back, and he was like, I think I got one. And I read it, and when I got to. I just. I don't know. She just spoke to me. Being a single mother, I just. I could relate. And not only that, it's also, too about making people feel seen. You know, this is a woman who just felt invisible. And I know that there are so many people in the world like that, especially with what we're going through right now. You know, there's so many that is happening to someone right now, losing everything, getting put out of, you know, their comforts of their home and their last check. And so I don't know. I just. I just. When I read it, I was like, I could see myself in it, and I just felt for her, and I just wanted to breathe life into her. And I called him, and I was like, yeah, this is it, Tyler. You got it.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. I love that. I mean, there's this narrative. They always say, oh, films like this are risky, but then they blow up. And I feel like this happens a lot with Tyler. So I'm curious what you think. What keeps that myth alive when we actually have direct examples that people want to see this work?

[A]

Um, Tyler knows his audience clearly. Everything he drops is a number one. But that is, like. Because he has worked his ass off to garner this incredible fan base. And it started on theater, and they just followed him from the stage onto the big screen.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I do think it's so important. I always use Tyler as a reference. For me, it wasn't necessarily theater, but with my social media and my immediate to audience engagement, it changed my career. And it gave me a direct way to know what they wanted from me. They knew then what they could ask for from me. And I think, you know, the more that people lean into their audience, the proof is in that pudding. So he's a great example of that. We talked about you moving with $700 in your pocket with Marcel on your hip to pursue your dreams. And in your memoir around the way, girl, you said, I never saw my baby as a roadblock to my goals. I simply started planning and dreaming about my ways. I would get what I wanted out of life while I had a baby on my hip. Having my son gave me laser sharp focus and I feel similarly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So how did having your son really clarify your purpose and fuel your ambition?

[A]

I didn't have time to waste. I was 26 when I had Marcel and I moved to LA. And I would often hear, ooh, girl, you gotta go out. Cause that's where the networking happens. And I'm like, explain how networking is happening in a club when everybody's drunk. What are we talking about?

[B]

I mean, it's crazy because it really is. That really is a tool for some people that works. But I've always never been able to really get to it. Yeah, I just can do the work.

[A]

Yeah. I don't. I'm not chasing dreams in no club where people are drunk, you know, reading wrong signals, mixed signals. I'm just, I'm not doing that. I never was that girl. So, you know, I couldn't go out, I couldn't party. So I had to focus. I had to focus on how to get to this money. Cause I want a better life for my son, you know, and so I just. It made me more business oriented, you know, I didn't have time to play around.

[B]

What piece of advice would you give to people like myself that are in their career striving, working at things, but yes, have their child? You know, single moms that are working for their dreams. What's a piece of advice you would give to any of us about how to continue to move forward and not have that guilt of working for something for yourself.

[A]

But you must make your dreams come true. Because if you don't, then what are you teaching your kids? I always considered myself a mother first. I will tell you one thing. Being A mother did to me. And I know that. That's why I understand my instrument so well. Because when I would come home from work or from the outside, dealing with Hollywood, when I crossed that threshold, it became about my son. He don't understand Hollywood. He don't understand the process of auditioning or getting. I have a science fair project due tomorrow. I am hungry. I have the chicken pox. You know what I mean? I have basketball. I have. So I've learned to turn it. I have a switch, literally, I can turn on and off. And being a mother allowed me to do that because, again, when I got home, it was all about him. It had nothing to do with the outside world. So I'm really good at turning that switch on and off. Literally, I could be in the scene.

[B]

Ah la gee.

[A]

So, girl, last night, when I was at the club, like, literally, I can do that.

[B]

That's an important shift, though, because a lot of people don't know when you're in our industry, where life imitates our art, and when everything feels so conflated into one thing, people sometimes don't know they selves offside of a set.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So to have that differentiation is definitely crucial.

[A]

Baby, when they yell it's a cut or that's a rap, that thing stays right there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I go back into being me. I don't. Don't call me the character. I do this every time somebody calls me Cookie or Yvette. It's like, not my name.

[B]

Oh, my God. Come on. That's not my name. That used to be a jam, that song. Oh, my gosh. Do you think there was a moment where your son either. Cause maybe. Because based off what you're telling me, it seemed like he always just was like, that's mommy. Was there a moment where he was like, oh, my mom is Taraji P. Henson. Like, where he was like, oh, people see you.

[A]

Yeah. He grew with me. So he. You know, it was so sweet because I would always talk to, you know, that's my best friend. That's like, that's my little person. And we would always talk. And he knew. Cause he grew up around it. He always knew. And I would always say to him, and he would be very conscious of people coming up to me in public, but he always would hear me. I would tell him, I would be like, I don't want to just be a black actress. I don't want. Yes, I love my people. I love us. But I want my art to affect all kinds of people, you know? And so I Remember once, I forget what. After what project I'd done or whatever, but we were out and some non black people came over and said they loved my work and they knew who I was. And he was sitting like this. And when they walked away, he was.

[B]

Like, mom, they weren't black.

[A]

So those babies, they are paying attention. They are listening and they care.

[B]

Like, they really want what you want. They want what you want.

[A]

Exactly. It's so sweet.

[B]

The other day, I was sad, but I wasn't vocal about it, but I was just. I felt sad. And Leo comes up to me as my son's name. And he says, strong mama. I was like, he knows. It touched me so deep. He said, strong mama. And I was like, yeah, yeah. My baby sees. He deserves to see. Like you said, me chasing my dreams, me happy, me fulfilling myself. Cause he knows I'm a strong mama.

[A]

Yeah. And don't hide it from him. Share that with him. Yeah, Share that with him.

[B]

It's such a blessing. Now an armchair expert. You said I come with a lot. I really related to this. I mean, I relate to so much that you say I come with a lot. If you weren't dating me, you wouldn't be looked at under a microscope. Which is a very honest insight for anybody dating anyone in our business.

[A]

Yeah. How has that.

[B]

Saying that or getting that out at the first stage helped in your relationships? Or give them an inside look at what's to come?

[A]

I just don't, like. I don't wanna surprise anyone, you know? Cause at first it's infatuation. You know what I mean? They like what they see. They probably have fallen in love or fallen in, like, with a character that you've portrayed. So I gotta get through all of that first. No, I'm not Cookie. I'm not none of them. I'm me.

[B]

Yeah. And it's so weird, the characters that they desire. Cause somebody was like, akilah. I'm like, now that's weird. We're grown, right? Like, this is the childhood fantasy. Like, what's going on? Right, girl?

[A]

So, you know, so it's just getting through all of that and can they handle it?

[B]

No.

[A]

Right? And that's why I'm single.

[B]

Okay, baby. This is icky Palma. Yeah. Remember when Paris and Nicole had to learn about the simple life? Well, I just found its perfect opposite in Rich Girl Summer, the new Audible original that had me canceling all my plans just to keep listening. A, uh. Here's the tea. Valerie, this down on her luck, event planner, finds herself pretending to be A socialite's long lost daughter up in Toronto's fancy cottage country. But, baby, between uncovering family secrets and falling for the impossibly handsome family assistant Nico, she's about to learn that some summers change everything. And when I tell you the narration is everything, Hamilton's Philippa sue brings its romance to life in a way that'll have you swooning poolside, beachside, or wherever your summer takes you. I was absolutely in over my head with this one. Just like Valerie and loving every minute of it. Ready for your own romantic summer escape? Listen to Rich girl Summer now on audible. Go to audible.com. richgirlsommar what's a green flag that you maybe passed up in your 20s, that now you're like, oh, this is a go.

[A]

A green flag that I passed up in my 20s?

[B]

Yeah. Like, you know, sometimes we're like, oh, I don't want the guy this blah, blah. But, like, now when we get older.

[A]

We'Re like, oh, the nurse. Yeah, yeah. The good boys. I was into them. Let me get quiet. I'm from dc, so, yeah, I think she said that.

[B]

Should give you a hint. I think I used to find myself into aloof people when it's like, you think that makes them interesting, but it's like, no, they just don't have anything going on, you know? But you think it's unique.

[A]

I like the bad boys. Wow. I was into them.

[B]

I feel like the bad boys always was liking me, and I'm like, I don't wanna go to the trap house again. You know, I did it a few times. It's boring in there.

[A]

Yeah, well, the trap house find me. I love that so much. Well, I was young and dumb. I grew up, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, Yeah.

[B]

I mean, our taste change. I was seeing an interview with Sierra where she's like, the palette changes.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

As you get older, you want different things out of life.

[B]

You want different things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I love Whoopi's quote where she said, I don't want somebody in my house. I relate to that. I don't want nobody in my damn house.

[A]

Baby, listen to me. Now you're. Now you're talking. It's so you keep talking about all these relationships, and I'm like, what? The last time I had. It's not even that. It's just that I have fought to find, get this peace that I have.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I am. I am. And so. That's right. You. I. I protected fiercely. That's right.

[B]

Fiercely.

[A]

Even to the Point where it's like, hey girl, let's go out. So if I leave my house and go come to where you are, is that going to disturb my peace? Like, those are the questions I ask.

[B]

No, that is the big question for me. And anything when I'm thinking about dating is are you gonna disrupt the. That's going on over here? Cause I don't want no disruption. I'm cool with the getting to know and an enhancement, but I don't want any disruption. And it's like you don't wanna be so stringent. Cause you know, okay, there's some tips and bumps, but it's like, I just. I'd rather just be chill with me. My mom used to always say I could do bad all by myself.

[A]

That part. I did a movie. You know what I mean?

[B]

You did a movie?

[A]

But no, seriously, I literally rather just be by myself. I mean. Cause I. I'm happy.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

I just remodeled my home.

[B]

Fabulous.

[A]

And the one thing I said was make it. I need to. If you know the guy, whoever he is, God willing, when he comes over, he needs to know this is my house.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And there is no space for you here. If you spend the night, pack your up in your bag the next day and take it with you. Cause I don't even have a drawer for you.

[B]

And I feel like that sounds great.

[A]

And it's. And I.

[B]

And that sounds great to me. Great. Everything can be fun.

[A]

It can be fun. I'll meet you out. I'll come stay over your house. You can come stay over my house. Da da da da.

[B]

My house stays clean.

[A]

That part.

[B]

Yeah. That's how I feel too. I really do. You know, I mean, I don't know if that's just because of what we've accomplished or anything like that, but that's.

[A]

The we've been through, man. Not trying to do that again.

[B]

No, I can't.

[A]

And you know, once I realized through therapy that I had my energy was a. I would trauma bond.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not even with like lovers, but like with friends.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I've cut a lot of people out of my life because I. Once I realized, oh, this is a trauma bonding here, girl.

[B]

It's so great what you said about the friends because we do focus so much on the relationship stuff where it's like the friendships sometimes you realize are facades as well.

[A]

It's like, absolutely.

[B]

Oh, babe, I thought that I was being friends with you, but really you're just mirroring me. I'm talking to my damn self. You're a echo channel.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I'm in an echo chamber. Because you're not actually reflecting anything back but me. To me.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So how am I getting fulfilled? Oh, I'm not getting fulfilled. This whole time I was being extracted from and drained.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's so crazy how that can. We only often think about it in relationships, but. No, it can be in friendships as well. And then you end up finding out that it's like, actually, I do prefer my own company. Let me go to this Michelin star restaurant and have an experience real quick.

[A]

By myself, you know, it's interesting.

[B]

It really is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I do think that when we have these realizations that maybe. Yeah, it does open up a door for something more authentic, you know, to find us for sure.

[A]

I think so, yeah.

[B]

Now, what inspired your talk show peace of mind?

[A]

Um, the urgency to get our community to talk about mental wealth. It was like, you know, I felt like the. The foundation was doing a great job, but on a larger scale. And the people that we, you know, the people that we wanted to connect with and affect, it just wasn't enough. And so I felt like a talk show needed to happen.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And put a face to it that we all know and love and get.

[A]

Some other faces in here that people are familiar with to be like, now if they're struggling, okay, it's okay to say I'm struggling, you know?

[B]

Yeah. I do wanna just quickly touch on the documentary number one on the call sheet because it was incredible. But one thing that a lot of my friends and everybody was talking to me about and asking me about was why it seemed like the guys were having a different experience than the women were having. And less than focusing on that, I wanna ask you, what do you think the answer to those things are?

[A]

Because it is. Their experience is different. They get paid more than us. Let's just start there. Let's just start there. They get paid more than us. They have more opportunities. Usually, you know, things have changed, but as far as consistency in the workflow, you know, men just get the opportunities to be the stars of the movies and then what are we? The cute wife, the girlfriend, the. You know. But now you have women like myself and Keke taking control and producing and doing our own thing.

[B]

So that's what I was gonna say is I think that's. That is our cause. Honestly, I don't know how to make anybody else change something, but I know.

[A]

What I can do, I can do for myself. I mean, tph.

[B]

I put it on every morning. These Legs are shiny because of your hair care, you know? So it's like. And by the way, what's so crazy? When I was thinking about the haircare, I didn't even know you was doing hair when you was at Howard making money in the dorm room. That was so. So it's a full circle thing there. Anyhow, I wanted to bring that up because I do think, as in our industry, a lot of times we've been put in this position where we just gotta focus on getting this job and focus on getting this role. And it's like, it gets to a certain point where it's like, let me be a brand in a business.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cause I can't depend on this one source for income. So, yeah, let me have the hair company. Let me have this other job. Let me be the content creator. Let me diversify so I don't have to sit here with my hand out.

[A]

Well, you must. And in a position of begging all the time.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

And I can't. I don't do well in those positions. I don't.

[B]

Absolutely not.

[A]

No.

[B]

We're virgos.

[A]

Absolutely don't do that. So.

[B]

But it's like, you know, when I seen it, I wanted people to know this, like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

While these challenges are very real and true. Get in the driver's seat and buckle up that part. Create multiple lanes.

[A]

Yeah. Build the doors to open. Don't be stopped knocking at a door.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Okay, so let me get into this game real quick, because I love playing the game with all my guests. And, I mean, you just. You always have the answers, I feel. So I wanted to play a game where it's like, what would Taraji do?

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

I'm gonna give you a list of scenarios, and you're gonna tell me the best way to handle it so we can get some of this Taraji whisked.

[A]

Okay. Okay. Hope I don't get in trouble.

[B]

How to recover from texting your ex.

[A]

How to recover so bad when it happens. Change the number. New line. Who?

[B]

This period. Okay. The key to a good thirst Trap.

[A]

The key to a good thirst. Is it a picture or just in general?

[B]

Well, it could be a picture.

[A]

It could be a video anywhere.

[B]

Where you trying to make sure the eyes are on the assets.

[A]

Well, you have to show the assets, but leave something to the imagination.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, Just show Batiste. Keep it cute.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Go to Bag essentials. What do you always have in your bag?

[A]

A lip therapy. Mm.

[B]

Cause we don't wanna Be cracked and dry.

[A]

A lip therapy, a lotion and some Kleenex for sure.

[B]

Keeping the nose clean.

[A]

Yeah. And I have a runny eye as well.

[B]

Me too. I do, too. And it's like, I didn't have a drop shadow when I came in here.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It was just a clean liner. Now I got smokey eye. Right.

[A]

That's crazy. Right?

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

I'm the same way. Yes.

[B]

Okay. How to make the first move without making the first move.

[A]

I feel like you would be great at this. How to make the first move without making the first move. Flirt and then make them feel like they did it all themselves. I was waiting for you to come over here after you done show thigh leg and wink.

[B]

Did everything. Yeah, I love that. I think that's, like, a really cool thing that I also seen with my mom. Does that a lot with my dad. Dad. Hopefully you don't listen to the podcast and find out the secrets, but she always does some stuff like that, and it makes it seem like it's my dad's idea. Exactly. It's like, Larry, you didn't come up with that.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I just told you that. How to deal with a friend who loves to tell your business.

[A]

Are we cussing that out? She might come up missing.

[B]

Literally. Cause why would you tell my business?

[A]

Girl who does that?

[B]

Okay. Things I learned at 50 that I wish I learned at 30.

[A]

To not give a.

[B]

I do feel it's kicked in a little bit more than when I was in my 20s, but I wanted to kick into overdrive.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. I figured it out. Listen to this. This is real. I'm spitting here. I figured it out. God gives you enough to give until you get to 50. And when you get to 50, you've run out. Any people in here? 50. And it's so happy. I'm the oldest in this room. Thank you. Do you give a about anything?

[B]

No, she don't.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

I've known her for a long time. She don't care about nothing.

[A]

I really don't care. No, I like, you know, in your 40s, you'll say it, but you still kind of care when you get 50. I don't give a. Oh, my God. I mean, I really don't. That feels like I don't lose no sleep. No is my favorite word.

[B]

How do we get engaged with it sooner?

[A]

You just have to. It comes with time. It comes with time.

[B]

I feel it in the reach, but it's just a little bit away. But you know?

[A]

Yeah. It comes with time. We'll keep working on it, I think. Cause at 50, you realize you're. You're closer to the end than you are the beginning. Yeah. So I just can't worry about what other people. I don't have that kind of time anymore.

[B]

Oof. Sounds blissful.

[A]

It's very blissful.

[B]

Last one. The best response to a U up text. Are we getting our freak on?

[A]

It depends on if I want to.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So if you want to, what's the reply? And if you don't want to?

[A]

I guess no reply if I want to. Why aren't you here yet?

[B]

Now that is so good.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Because it's commanding without being demanding.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's like he on the way.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Girl, are you outside yet?

[B]

Yes, girl. Taraji, you are everything and more.

[A]

You are everything and more. Oh, my God, I'm so proud of you.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

I just cannot. I cannot say it enough. I mean, because to be a full grown adult in this industry, but then to grow up in this industry and weave your way in and out of the bull and still hold onto yourself, that's an accomplishment. I'm just really proud of you.

[B]

Thank you so much. You know, I'm trying every day and when I look at people like you, it's a great inspiration for who I can be, what I can do, and what I can overcome. You know, it's hard when people place your value on these things, when you know your worth is so much more.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I really do appreciate you.

[A]

Yeah. You're so inspirational. I just love you.

[B]

I love you. Thank you for coming to the show.

[A]

Thanks for having me. And I love the hair color.

[B]

Thanks. Taraji is always good for laughs, honesty, and a whole lot of wisdom. She took us from Howard to Hollywood, broke ground in hidden figures, and gave us a cultural icon with Cookie Lyin. All while reminding us that the real Flex is being unapologetic in everything you do. And now that she's in her 50s, she truly does not care what anybody thinks. She's proof that protecting your piece isn't selfish. It's necessary. You can take up space and still keep it cute while doing it. I know. That's right. Until next time. Baby, this is Kiki Palm. Baby, this is. This is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer. Yeah. Baby, this is Keke Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me. Keke Palmer. Lucas Siegel is our post producer. Our producers are Lauren Hampton and Molly nestor. Hilary Estee McLaughlin is our executive producer. Production services provided by Evolution Media Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer, for Team Keke. My producer is Sharon Palmer for Wondery. Our managing producer is Olivia Fonti. Senior managing producer is Nick Ryan. And our executive producers are Emily Feldbrake, Erin o', Flaherty, and Marshall Louie.