Usher’s Confessions: Dancing With Keke and Being “The Last Showman”

Summary

Summary of "Usher’s Confessions: Dancing With Keke and Being 'The Last Showman'"

Baby, This is Keke Palmer Episode: Usher’s Confessions: Dancing With Keke and Being “The Last Showman”
Release Date: February 11, 2025
Host: Wondery (Hosted by Keke Palmer)

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of Baby, This is Keke Palmer, host Keke Palmer sits down with one of the most influential figures in the music industry—Usher. The conversation delves deep into Usher’s illustrious career, personal experiences, and his latest project, "The Last Showman." Through engaging dialogue and insightful revelations, listeners gain an intimate look into the life and mindset of the R&B legend.

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Usher’s Career and Artist Development

Usher begins by reflecting on his early days in the entertainment industry, emphasizing the importance of artist development and the influence of industry giants like LA Reid and Brooke Payne.

Usher [02:35]: "There was a major focus on artist development. Sure, it could have come from the Motown era, but LA Reid and the people working on artists from that time really put the time into a live performance."

He highlights how early training was not just about producing hits but about creating memorable live performances that could captivate audiences across various venues.

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Touring and Balancing Family Life

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Usher’s love for touring juxtaposed with the challenges it poses to his family life. Usher candidly shares his feelings on the sacrifices required to maintain his career while striving to be present for his children.

Usher [06:12]: "I have never hated touring. I love touring. The only reason why I hate it now is because I don't get time with my kids."

He underscores the emotional toll of being away from family and the longing for a more balanced life where he can engage fully with his children.

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Personal Relationships and Working with His Mother

Usher opens up about the complexities of working with his mother, who managed his career from a young age. The intertwining of familial bonds and professional responsibilities led to challenges in maintaining a healthy personal relationship.

Usher [17:01]: "Trying to manage a relationship with someone whom you're gonna have natural emotions and have differences with... It was very difficult to balance."

The conversation touches on generational differences and the strain of being the breadwinner in a single-parent household, revealing the nuanced dynamics that shaped his upbringing and career.

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Inspirations and Evolution as a Performer

Keke Palmer and Usher discuss the evolution of live performances and the essence of being a showman. Usher reflects on his influences, from Michael Jackson to New Edition, and how these inspirations shaped his approach to music and stagecraft.

Usher [10:34]: "I think it's important for people to understand the importance of being a showman."

He elaborates on the need to maintain authenticity and the human element in entertainment, resisting the over-reliance on technology and emphasizing the value of genuine performance skills.

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Movie Projects Passed On and Regret

The duo reminisces about opportunities Usher declined, such as roles in Dreamgirls and Cats. Usher explains the tough decisions behind passing on these projects, primarily due to his commitments to touring and financial considerations.

Usher [44:16]: "I gotta cancel an entire tour. I had to pass."

He expresses regret over missing out on potentially iconic roles but acknowledges the necessity of prioritizing his career and responsibilities.

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Introduction to "The Last Showman"

Usher introduces his latest project, an Audible series titled The Last Showman, which offers an in-depth exploration of his career and personal journey. The project serves as a platform for Usher to share candid stories and reflections that he previously couldn't articulate publicly.

Keke Palmer [31:37]: "Usher is joining Audible's Words and Music series with his new title, The Last Showman."

This initiative represents Usher’s commitment to transparency and his desire to connect with audiences on a more personal level, beyond his musical performances.

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Creation and Impact of "Confessions"

The conversation shifts to Usher’s seminal album, Confessions, which marked a pivotal moment in his career. Usher discusses the emotional depth and personal struggles that fueled the album’s creation, highlighting it as a cathartic outlet for his experiences.

Usher [35:33]: "Making Confessions was much deeper because we were talking about real toxic shit."

He emphasizes how the album resonated with fans by addressing universal themes of love, betrayal, and self-discovery, solidifying his status as an R&B legend.

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Keke Palmer’s Reflections and Connections

Keke Palmer relates her own journey as an entertainer to Usher’s experiences, discussing the challenges of balancing personal life with public persona. She appreciates Usher’s honesty and draws parallels between their paths in the industry.

Keke Palmer [21:03]: "I know I'm an entertainer. The people closest to me know, but people getting to know me fall in love with the persona."

This shared understanding fosters a deeper connection between the host and guest, enriching the dialogue with mutual respect and empathy.

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Interactive Game: Truth or Dare with Usher

Towards the end of the episode, Keke Palmer engages Usher in a playful game of Truth or Dare, adding a lighthearted element to the in-depth conversation. This segment reveals quirky insights and humorous anecdotes, showcasing Usher’s personable side.

Keke Palmer [42:54]: "It's gonna be pretty much Truth or dare, but a little bit with a confession vibe to it."

The game highlights Usher’s willingness to be vulnerable and share fun moments, balancing the serious topics discussed earlier.

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Closing Thoughts and Takeaways

As the episode concludes, Keke Palmer summarizes the key takeaways from her conversation with Usher. The overarching message emphasizes the importance of personal growth, authentic connections, and the courage to share one’s story.

Keke Palmer [54:03]: "You got to do what's best for you. Keep evolving and engaging in life the best ways you can."

Listeners are left with an inspiring narrative about resilience, the pursuit of passion, and the value of maintaining balance between personal and professional life.

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Notable Quotes

• Usher [02:35]: "We were doing it to impress an audience, to play venues, and make sure that part of who you were as an artist was locked in."

• Usher [06:12]: "I have never hated touring. I love touring. The only reason why I hate it now is because I don't get time with my kids."

• Usher [10:34]: "I think it's important for people to understand the importance of being a showman."

• Keke Palmer [35:33]: "Making Confessions was much deeper because we were talking about real toxic shit."

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Conclusion

This episode of Baby, This is Keke Palmer offers an enriching exploration of Usher’s life beyond the stage. From his early career struggles and triumphs to his personal battles and creative endeavors, Keke Palmer skillfully navigates the conversation, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of what it truly means to be a showman. Usher’s honesty and introspection make for a compelling narrative that resonates deeply, inspiring aspiring artists and fans alike to embrace their own journeys with authenticity and resilience.

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Listen to Baby, This is Keke Palmer on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. For early and ad-free listening, join Wondery+.

Transcript

[Keke Palmer]

This episode is sponsored by the lovely people over at Airbnb. Are you celebrating love this month? Book an Airbnb for you and your boo and watch the sparks fly. Now let's start the show. Hey, listeners, it's your girl, Keke Palmer. And I'm so excited to talk to Mr. Usher. Yes, that's right. Usher is coming on the show, and we're about to sip, sip, sip tea and also talk about all his experiences and the lessons he's learned along his way. Let's get into it because, baby, this is Keke Palmer. No matter what we doing in the car, just chilling pop on Amazon music, sit back and listen. Life, love, sex, science, hovering it all, especially the bag, is money always evolved. No matter what it is, we gonna make it make sense. Nothing else to do but kick it with the homies and kings to grab you a drink and a snack you enjoy and get into the vibe that only wants you. You know it's your girl. This is Kiki, baby. This is Kiki Palma. Y All right now, y'all, my guest today is one of the most successful pop artists of all time. Some might even say the heir to the kanga pop. And I might agree. He's been serving us hits since the 90s, blending R B, hip hop, smooth vocals, and even smoother dance moves. I mean, you know the classics, like 2001, come on. Yeah, yeah. With little Johnny Ludacris. But, baby, he did not stop there. With eight Grammy Awards, 18 Billboard Music Awards, and nine Soul Train Music Awards under his belt, he is still out here proving why he's one of the greatest to ever do it. Usher, welcome to the show.

[Usher]

Man, what an amazing introduction, man.

[Keke Palmer]

I mean, it's all facts. This is what you've done.

[Usher]

You make it seem so easy, though. You made me feel like I could do this shit, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know if I could do a podcast. I don't know if people even want to watch a podcast with me.

[Keke Palmer]

Well, we got the last showman, you know, with the audible, so I'm going to be listening to that and hearing about all the Confessions.

[Usher]

Well, I'm just getting warmed up. I mean, I did my audible, and, you know what I mean? Just, you know, trying to figure out how this new space works with creativity. I'm so accustomed to being on the stage and, you know, having that connection between artists. We come home at different time. Right when I first started. 16 years old.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. And I mean, with the showman, I think that that Word rings so true. I love the title that you chose for the audible, because when I think about when you started 16, that's when that showmanship was really, I feel like, at its height. Like, what was your training like at 16 to get to being who you are on stage today?

[Usher]

By the way, that was a standard for all artists. And there was a major, you know, kind of focus on artist development. Sure could have come from the, you know, Motown era, but L A Reid and the people who were working on artists from that time or we were inspired by, if you think about, like, New Edition, you know, so like, Brooke Payne and those people who really put the time in to a live performance. And by the way, it was about not just selling music because the likely chance that you would sell millions and millions of albums weren't the reason why you were doing it. You were doing it to impress an audience. To be able to come to a town and, you know, play a venue and people come back to see you time and time again. And hopefully you grow a career where you go from nightclubs to eventually bigger venues and keep going upward. But to make certain that that part of who you were as an artist, you know, was locked in was important. And it would help you in. In many ways, because you had to do videos, you had to do visuals.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Usher]

Had to, you know, have this certain etiquette to be able to do interviews and represent the brand of that company and yourself. Well, back then, you know, unfortunately, it was more like work for hires. So you were, as an artist, were assigned to a deal. And all depending on how you perform would determine how much leverage you even have in it.

[Keke Palmer]

Kind of like mgm, Marilyn Monroe evolved that.

[Usher]

Yeah, yeah. So you were being developed throughout the process, but there was some sort of artist development that started it all off. And if you wanted to live up to the standard of the artist that you were either underneath on those major labels, you know, if you think about the majors, right, you're like, okay, well, maybe one day I'll be as big as, you know, Michael Jackson if I'm in the same Sony system. Or I'll be as big as, you know, Babyface. If I'm signed to his label, I'll be as major.

[Keke Palmer]

I love what you're talking about with this, because I don't think a lot of people always realize the corporate elements that also exist in entertainment industry, just like any other industry.

[Usher]

Well, that's because corporate now is playing a less significant part in it. And now you have independence, which is good. But I think that Something suffers in it.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Usher]

I think that artist development happens in a different way. I ain't gonna discredit the fact that, you know, you can still, you know, garner a lot of attention and get people really excited about what you do when people come see you perform. But what do you offer them when they're there that actually reminds you of what this is really about? It's about your vocal ability. It's about your being able to shock people and dance or perform and put together an entire, you know, memorable moment of choreography. Especially if that's who you are on, you know, videos, right. When they come to see you live, you should have that plus some. Right?

[Keke Palmer]

And it's so interesting because I feel like every artist doesn't even know or want to do the tour thing. You know, that's so funny, the clip of Michael Jackson where it's like, how do you feel about Tourney's a hater. And they're like, we're filming. And he's like, I love tour. It's like this little funny gift that they do. He's telling the truth, right? So tell me about that love and hate relationship where it's. This is what I have to do. But what makes touring also so difficult and something that you knew you wanted to do as an artist. Cause you started as young as 16.

[Usher]

Touring, by the way. I don't think any of us outside of, like, you know, those who. The silvers in place and people like that are the DeBarge family, those people who started super young can even relate to what Michael was talking about. I understand when he says, I hate touring. Touring nine times out of ten, because his entire life has been touring and has been being that and being ready. Right. For me, it's a bit different, but I felt that it was part of what I signed up for when I decided.

[Keke Palmer]

Because it was your choice, you feel.

[Usher]

Well, it's different in terms of whether I love or hate it. I have never hated touring. I love touring. Like, that is the one thing that's the most important part to me. But the only reason why I hate it now is because I don't get time with my kids. So the sacrifice that I have to make to not be there for them, rather they know it. I would rather be able to have real permissive parenting where I can wake up every morning and have breakfast with my kids, take them to school, check on them, you know what I'm saying, after school, and be able to try and have some sense of normalcy. Because great parenting hopefully allows your Kids to grow up and understand what it is to work for something if you're not there to instill it. And it's a bit complicated. So I hate that I don't get a chance to have that part. I love being able to perform. That's the most important thing that I said I would do when I didn't have kids. Moment I had kids. It's like, yeah, I don't really like being out there all the time. So I try to make the most of it when I do it.

[Keke Palmer]

You definitely make the most of it. One thing I would love to talk a little bit about some of your inspirations, because aside from michael, I mean, I know that Fred is. There's so many different elements that you bring to stage. I remember when I was at your show, you know, we gotta talk about 2023. And when I came to the show and we shut it down.

[Usher]

Can we talk about when you came to the show? I mean, when you literally shut down the whole world for two seconds?

[Keke Palmer]

That was absolutely insane. But I will be honest. My reaction was 100% purely based off of me being a fan of yours for years. People don't even know. Also, I auditioned for in the mix.

[Usher]

They don't know.

[Keke Palmer]

They didn't give me the part. Why would usher. We got far to the chemistry. Re. I remember honestly being speechless. I felt like maybe my audition wasn't good because as soon as I was.

[Usher]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stop, stop. Your audition was absolutely incredible. And I have to tell you, though, it's been forever. And if you want to go back and check out the movie and see it, you can. In the mix. But you actually did phenomenal. I just felt like you might have been a little bit too old.

[Keke Palmer]

And that's what they told me. They told me that.

[Usher]

But by the way, it wasn't my last decision, But I gave my opinion. But I really did feel like you did an amazing job. But I can't win them all, you know?

[Keke Palmer]

Well, now we gotta just. I'm writing the next movie. We gotta do a movie together.

[Usher]

We should do something.

[Keke Palmer]

Come on.

[Usher]

Other than just drive everybody crazy.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. So wait. Let's get to that. So I remember being at the show, and this was my first time being at your concert. But I gotta tell you, man, all my life, I was one of those people where it's like, I know what Usher's a guy. He's for the guys. But, like, I want to be usher. I gotta think about you coming down the stairs, all your videos. Were so theatrical. You wasn't just like, we got the character of Usher, where it's like, oh, don't leave your girl around me. Like, it was giving storyline. And I love that because I think for me, not having the proper support as an artist in the music industry, I was always trying to figure out, how did people tell their story, how do I incorporate the storyline of who I am to my audience through my music? And so I used to study a lot of your stuff because you were so great at it.

[Usher]

But that's the brilliance of you as a performer. Right? You make the difference. You are actually more like the artists of our time, where you study, where you understood the nuance, where you care about something more than just a fan experience. Like, you really. You really know the moves. You understand the moments. You've looked at the clips, you've looked at the interviews, you've studied what people, you know, what their inspirations were, all of those things. And unfortunately, I don't know if we have enough time to stop and focus on that part because everybody's trying to be famous themselves as opposed to how do I follow the. That I felt was so great and how do I have some of those moments? Right. How do I have the same moments that I'm looking at from Michael or I'm looking at from, you know, when I was a kid, it was new edition. When I'm looking at, you know, these amazing moments that are about vocal ability. When I look at, you know, Whitney Houston or, oh, my gosh, Whitney Houston, you know what I'm saying? Luther Vandross and have these incredible vocal moments. Yes, right. If you're accustomed to that, if you're looking at it every day, then you aspire to be that. Things have changed, you know what I'm saying? And I am saying it's changed for the worse. But I do think it's important for people to understand the importance of being a showman. That's why I wanted to put this. You know, this. You know, the audible. Audible together.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes. And those stories that are going to come with that, I think are going to be not just gaggy, exciting and cool to hear, but, yes, hopefully people are going to be learning as well. I remember watching the show and thinking, oh, my gosh, this is also musical theater. We have acrobatics and all this craziness with the skating. Then we have the storytelling as we go from each set and what world it puts us into. And then we have all the eras. So my reaction was just like, I can't Believe, like, I haven't seen anybody perform like this in such a long time. Now, obviously, everybody went crazy. We caused some ruckus in my relationship.

[Usher]

Hold on. Did we cause some. We did not.

[Keke Palmer]

We were being shown.

[Usher]

Hold on. Did I have anything to do? What was going on in your home? Did I send you that dress?

[Keke Palmer]

Have you seen the Boondocks episode? Because you've been apparently accused of this for years.

[Usher]

Did I send you the dress? I just wanna know that.

[Keke Palmer]

Did you.

[Usher]

I cannot be responsible for how people choose to react to my experience as an entertainer. I am not deliberately trying to do anything that's gonna rock anybody's mind.

[Keke Palmer]

This is what you call ushering?

[Usher]

I'm ushering right now. This is what I actually say to myself in the mirror every time I go out there before I hit the stage. I am not here to break up. I am here to entertain you, my love. You know what I'm saying? Nah. But were you shocked? No, I was actually. We were having a great time.

[Keke Palmer]

I know. It was so fun. And you always do these amazing, engaging moments with the audience. Like, I mean, you did it with Issa, with Taraji. Now you're doing some cherry stuff. Now that's very rated R. You done added levels to it.

[Usher]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

And the girls, we all love it. It's so fun. I mean, how many times do you feel. Cause obviously we did the video after.

[Usher]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

And I wanna talk about why you. Well, let's start there then. What made you, after that say, hey, key, let's do the video. I would love to know your thought process around there. Cause there was so much drama.

[Usher]

I think you and I both can share the sentiment of the moment. Because I know it was a hot moment for you. And I was like, you know what? You know, when life feeds you lemons, you make lemonade. I think that this could be something positive and actually just shine a little bit of fun on it. And allowing us to really do something that I think could be fun is the purpose and point of it. Let's do something that just takes the mind off of it and just have a good time. You know, don't focus on the drama. By the way, if you focus on the drama, then you're going to always respond to it only. But if you just live your life as an entertainer and understand the purpose of whatever you're creating to service entertainment, then it'll be okay. Now, again, I don't want to take any responsibility for breaking anybody's home, but that wasn't the purpose and point it was for you to have a good time with your girls, come out there and just enjoy. I don't remember the last time that, you know, I had experiences like that or either went to shows like this. I'm always trying to find things that I think are fun. Vegas was intended to be intimate, and.

[Keke Palmer]

You'Re being light about it. But the wisdom that you gave me will forever be cherished because I don't think people understand. Also, like, I'm an entertainer. I'm a performer. This is what I do. But also, like, I have a life that I don't. Where I don't perform.

[Usher]

Right.

[Keke Palmer]

That I have to also live in balance with the people that maybe only know me personally and don't know I'm entertaining. That's a big line. And I talk about a little bit in my book. I quote you haphazardly. But that advice was really helpful to me and stuck with me because, wait a minute. I know I'm an entertainer. The people closest to me that have been with me for the last 20 years that I've done this career know. But the people that are just getting to know me fall in love with me and learn how to deal with the Persona of who I am and then who I really am to them. That's the challenge. Yeah, baby. This is Icy Palma. Yeah. All month long, love is in the air. B and B, that is. And I'm about to put you onto the ultimate Valentine's Day tee. Listen up, lovebirds. It's time to ditch the same old dinner date and level up your romance game with the vacation. Now, I've been known to take a lover on a romantic getaway in the past. And Airbnb was always the first place I looked to find private spots perfect for cuddling up. I'm talking tucked away deep in the middle of nowhere chalet, okay? Trust me, nothing says I love you like champagne and strawberries in front of a cabin's fireplace or some pinot and chocolate in your very own bubble house. Yes. This year, head straight to Airbnb's guest favorites. These spots are the cream of the crop, honey. Cozy cabins, beachfront beauties, and city penthouses that will make. Yo, bae, Jaw drop. They're top rated for a reason, with amenities that'll have you feeling like royalty. Now, don't settle for ordinary this V day and every day after. Whether you're dreaming of a scheduled mountain getaway or chic city escape, Airbnb's got you covered. Remember, some trips are better in an Airbnb, especially when Love is in the air. Book the perfect spot and get your baekation on. You'll never forget it. Happy Valentine's Day. Okay, so I know y'all caught last night's premiere of the Bachelor, right? Didn't I tell you there'd be a quiz? Look, it's fine. Because if you didn't, I'll let you hop on over to Hulu to get caught up. Now that that's out of the way, didn't I tell y'all that man was fine and genuine and kind hearted and really sweet. And did I mention fine? This is the sort of television that I live for. The romance, the drama. Watching all these beautiful people gallivant and cohort all over the mans. My heart's fluttering just thinking about it. Will Grant choose Savannah, the blonde bombshell from Virginia? Or Kelsey, the gorgeous goddess from Brooklyn? Or any of the other beautiful and intelligent women vying for his love? Y'all know I have no horse in this race, but I am locked in. Listen, if there was ever a time for a wine fueled watch party with the besties, It's Mondays at 8, 7 Central, darling. New episodes of the Bachelor air every Monday at 8, 7 Central on ABC. And as always, you can choose to stream it on Hulu too. Now, where's my rose? You've worked with a lot of people in your family and relationships, managers. You know what I mean? Your mom was managing your career for years. Those are personal relationships that also have to exist in the Persona of Usher.

[Usher]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

When did you. And how did you learn how to do that?

[Usher]

I don't know that I actually learned how to do it or it just became kind of a. An inevitable thing that happened because of my trust for my mother and the fact that she happened to be there when I was inspired to do what I was and encouraged and supported and paid whatever it was in order for us to start a career. When I got enough attention, then I needed at least guidance. And I think my mother was smart, educated enough to be able to read through the fine print that she could and find people who could represent me well and do our best to try and position ourselves to have some leverage in building a career because I was dead set on getting somewhere. Yeah. But it's a very complicated thing because, you know, what was obviously affected was our relationship.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Usher]

And I never get a chance to talk one. Maybe one day I'll talk about it in a book. But it was very difficult to kind of balance a relationship between my mom and me. And by the way, it's only been me and her and my brother. And then, you know, the. The kind of contrast and generational things that come with all of those things, right? Not being raised with your father and now being this kind of person who's gotta carry the torch and be the breadwinner. In my mind, whether it was true or not of my family, it's a lot.

[Keke Palmer]

I relate to it so completely and entirely from every aspect that you said. And the mom and the child and the manager thing, it was so difficult. I mean, I remember when I started just calling my mom Sharon because it was kind of like, I'm trying my best to find delineating factors from when you are my mom and when you are being my manager, because are you with them or are you with me? And, you know, it becomes so convoluted because you both are working towards the same goal, but who you have to be sometimes to get there.

[Usher]

You still just trying to figure out how to cope with life, let alone try to manage a relationship with someone whom you're gonna have natural emotions and have differences with. Right? And there is that contrast where mom knows best or parents knows best. But what if what you're asking for in your mind is very clear, but now it's like, wait a minute. You just crossed the line. But there is no barriers with family. It is what it is. And it's a very complicated situation, which was part of the reason that I elected for our relationship to be, you know, a little bit separated. I would always be supportive of her. She would always be supportive of me. But I wanted my mother because I ain't have her for about 25 plus years.

[Keke Palmer]

And when you didn't have her, I'm sure people are like, what do you mean you didn't have her? You were working with her. What would you explain that? Like, was it just that you couldn't be anybody outside of the Usher? You was on tv. How did you know? What was the.

[Usher]

No, I just. Really, you. You. Sometimes you don't want your parents to tell you you did the wrong thing. I just want you to love me. I don't need you to remind me of how bad I've made a decision. I know. I need you to hold my hand through it. Can you just be here with me? And that became complicated because some of the moves that I was naturally making were, you know, dangerous for our. For what we had built. But, hey, that was my choice. But I really wanted my mother to just hold my hand and be there with me through some of the harder times. But there were times when she couldn't, when she drew hard lines. Because, by the way, this is a single woman, black woman in a predominantly male industry where she's not respected because she's a businesswoman. She's respected because she's a mother.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Usher]

And then that contrast between a man now and a woman is happening. And I'm like, man, this is. I'm not even calling you mom. I'm calling you by your name. Yeah. And probably far worse than that. Now we screaming at each other, and it's like, what in the hell has happened? So before you know it, I had completely lost who I was as her son and needed to.

[Keke Palmer]

How did you find a clarity around that, though? Because when you're so in it, it all becomes what's normal. What was the moment where you're like, oh, wait a minute, I really don't want this. And I, you know. Were you in therapy? Did you have good friends that was.

[Usher]

Talking to you about it? Come on, man. We don't believe in therapists. Let's be real. And what access do we have to people? You know what I'm saying to the therapist may be in church, you know what I'm saying? Or maybe, you know, a counselor at school, or maybe a person, you know that is mentoring you, or maybe elders. But we don't have counselors, people to really help you understand, you know, the dynamic of how the brain functions and how you have to deal with generational trauma. I didn't even know any of those words and shit before I start working with a therapist.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Usher]

So I ain't really have access or either the understanding to have access or either, you know, source those types of things to help me communicate. It was just. I'm troubleshooting with friends. I'm kind of working out things in real time and, like, trial and error and then, you know, the dynamic of, damn, I can't take back what I said now. And now, you know, it's just. You're just a defiant child. No, I'm not. This is the dynamic. So it ain't nothing normal about it. It never becomes normal. And defining, establishing those boundaries and having therapy would have definitely helped me earlier. But again, we don't come from that culture. I'm gonna keep it real, at least. I didn't. I can't say all black people don't. But I didn't. Matter of fact, I didn't either.

[Keke Palmer]

I brought it to my family, you know, I brought the concert.

[Usher]

Don't you be Outside, telling my secret, telling them what happened in our family. What? You. You better. What, keep that to yourself. You know, don't be snitching. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I'm really over here suffering. I gotta deal with some of this.

[Keke Palmer]

And I hear voices.

[Usher]

Yeah. It's like, come on, man. But. But nah, it's not readily available.

[Keke Palmer]

And honestly, you would assume that, you know, after having had that relationship and then saying to yourself, okay, boo, me and my mom. This is gonna be my mom. I'm gonna be me. That's gonna be separate, that you wouldn't necessarily work with family again, but you continue to. I mean, even your wife, Jennifer, she works in the industry.

[Usher]

She works in the industry, okay. She's an executive and works with a multitude of artists. She works with 21 Savage. She works with Mariah the Scientist. She loves Mariah DDG. She works with a ton of artists in the EPIC system. And well decorated in terms of the things that she's been associated with. An artist that she. That she's, you know, kind of either helped with music.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Usher]

I definitely rely on her opinion about things. She's an incredible sounding board and, you know, brings calm to some of my madness sometimes, you know, but if we had to work together, oh, my God, it would. It wouldn't work. It would damage our relationship. I would never do that. Like, matter of fact, we have a policy, you know, if this is a business that you're in, I'm going to help establish and work on it. But it's your business, you know, and then we have the things that we do together. But it's not a mandate. It's a choice in relationship. You know, your things are your things, my things are mine. I have something I'm passionate about. I need your support, I need your help. I want to get counsel. But those kinds of boundaries established, I think hopefully going to, you know, make this a more sustainable relationship. This is my third one.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Usher]

And I'm trying to make certain that I don't take this ring off.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, I know. That's right. Amen. And I love that. And I love that it is a balance in that regard because, hey, sometimes it's difficult when the person doesn't know anything about what you do. You know what I mean? I think for me, it was always difficult to figure out, do I want to date somebody that's in the industry and that knows what's going on, or does that not give me enough of a way to be outside of the industry? Enough. You know how that is as an industry.

[Usher]

You don't want that.

[Keke Palmer]

It's like you don't want the other one.

[Usher]

You don't want that. You don't want somebody who's oblivious.

[Keke Palmer]

Really.

[Usher]

Yeah. You don't want. You want somebody who does understand who you are and knows the dynamic that comes with it. Because there's going to be times where it becomes complicated and you're gonna need them to get it and create balance. If they're rationed, I then feel too Hollywood sometimes. Hollywood. Because I understand who I'm dating and I know what I got myself into before I started. Nah, I think when you. And if you want to live that life, you can. But at some point, she or he will feel like, oh, I'm not included. I don't understand. Oh, you know what? You. Right. I don't understand. I don't work in your world. You don't want that. You know what I'm saying? You want somebody who at least.

[Keke Palmer]

Have you all. Have you ever dated somebody out of the industry or you always dated people that knew or at least adjacent to the world?

[Usher]

Yeah. Nah, I mean other industries. Yeah. You know, not entertainment. I mean. Yeah. Yes. I've dated all types of women. You know what I'm saying?

[Keke Palmer]

I guess that's how you learned. Yeah. That the ones outside.

[Usher]

No, actually, just from afar. This is just an opinion. You know, I could be wrong. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying that. What I am saying is the only way to do it. It's working so far.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Usher]

And there's enough of an understanding. She understands my language and I understand hers. We understand how to hear each other, but more than hearing each other, we know how to listen. You know what I'm saying? It's one thing to have space to talk, but to have ears to hear. That is the difference in having successful relationships in life, period. And having someone who comes from the world or either, you know, the idea of that world and what it takes in terms of dedication and commitment, it actually helps. It really does help. Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

We're talking about how things were different with the concept of being a showman and artist development. I'm curious, and this is a broad question, but maybe you have an answer of what do you feel is missing or what is the biggest difference between then and now? Now with artists today coming up, I.

[Usher]

Mean, I don't know. I mean, if. If I were just judging, you know, the industry at large, I think that what has happened with independent artists or artists who don't necessarily rely on, you know, companies and have independence is a great thing. But some of these gatekeepers and companies that were, so to speak, gatekeepers of the integrity of entertainment and were curating very specific types of music and types of artists, those artists are sustainable now. Those are the artists that we are motivated by. Those are the artists that we are encouraged by. Who knows what's going to happen in the future as technology has taken over. But as I know and recognize, music has now put itself in a position where it sells everything but itself. So all of the byproducts and the other ancillaries and things like that, they matter more. That's the business of the business. So it's good. But what I've been missing is that process that you have to go through in order to earn your keep. The fact that even if you have tons of people screaming your name, you still gotta perform for them. You still have to show up and make certain that their dollar matters. I am happy that I spent this money. Not just because I'm here to sing this hit record, but you really entertained me. You didn't just stand there, you know.

[Keke Palmer]

And I feel like there's a level of, I don't want to say detachment, but there's a level of what I'm hearing and what you're saying which is like, you know what, this is my job and I got a job to do, as opposed to what we feel and experience now, which, hey, maybe it's because times have changed, but there's a lot of emotion in the parasocial relationships where it's like, I'm not just here to entertain you. Which again is kind of like, well, what kind of you you are, you know, so it's like I feel like there's this weird thing that's happened in the change of how we connect to our audience, where the artists also want to feel like they're the audience member and the audience member wants to feel like they're the artist. It's like a weird exchange.

[Usher]

Well, who knows where that thought arrived from? Did it arrive from the fact that there is no mystique in music or anything else now? So I know everything about you. So the fact that I now feel entitled to say to an audience who's spending their hard earned money to come here and see you, that I don't owe any effort to you. I don't know that that makes sense, but that's just me. But I also too know we live in a different time where nothing is private. I Know everything about every person that I know. If I want to know something, what's going on in your life, I go look at your Instagram or your TikTok or whatever it is and your profile, and I got it. That didn't exist in our time, so we had to earn the audience. We had to earn the respect of the audience.

[Keke Palmer]

I feel like I came up right in the middle because I feel so much of what you're saying, and I feel like I live and do my career that way most of the time. But also, people do end up knowing things that I maybe didn't expect them to know, or it's not what I'm used to. Because coming up, there was a little bit more of, hey, wait a minute. I need to give you my best. I don't want to give you no bullshit. And so I often am balancing the, hey, I want to give you my best. I want to be a performer.

[Usher]

But also, that all depends on your ambition.

[Keke Palmer]

Now, wait, what do you mean by.

[Usher]

That, that all depends on your ambition? I want to perform for my audience.

[Keke Palmer]

Right.

[Usher]

I literally care myself, because otherwise, why would I sit and, you know, kind of rehearse over and over and over again, sing this song over and over again, try to protect and, you know, perfect my tone so that when I actually use my voice, it sounds great. I sound like the record that I sold you. That's a personal choice. You know, you. You gotta understand, we just living in a different time. I don't want to seem like a dinosaur. You know what I'm saying?

[Keke Palmer]

You're not sounding like that. We're just being.

[Usher]

Man, my kids is quick to call me a boomer. That's what I'm saying.

[Keke Palmer]

You're not a boomer. You're a millennial.

[Usher]

They will call me a boomer, for real. What I'm saying is talking like this makes them feel that way. So I'm like. I'm, like, cautionary when I'm moving in.

[Keke Palmer]

Any of these directions, howling.

[Usher]

But I'm saying, like, yeah, part of where technology and all of those things are assisting us is failing us with the authenticity of what it is to be a live performer.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Usher]

Because now if I. I just kind of turn this auto tune, I ain't really gotta care about really running on a treadmill or either working out and getting my diaphragm in a great place where I can sing, project on key, not flat or sharp, and dance and perform, not be winded and give you a full show. Those things don't matter as much. So, you know, use the machines, don't let the machine use you. You know what I'm saying? So that's also two part of it. Like I'm fighting for the human element of entertainment, not just the, you know, the elements that assist us. Part of the reason that I named my tour Past, Present future is because I'm finding ways to use both spectrums to find really innovative, creative things to do that brings in an audience that is accustomed to now how we do things and also to giving them the intimacy that I was raised to create as a live performer. That's what makes me the showman that I am.

[Keke Palmer]

Baby, this is Iki Paulma. Yeah. Psst. Let me put y'all onto something hot. Usher is joining Audible's words and music series with his new title, the Last Showman. And baby, when I say it's giving everything, I mean everything. Now, I love a behind the scenes tell all, but this, this is the real deal. Audible is taking us even deeper into the world of the king, the legend, the mom over his storied 30 year career in the entertainment industry. Listening to Usher as he looks back at the history of R and B, the genre that he helped shape, reminds me of the importance of retrospection. And looking back, it is so apparent that Mr. Usher, baby has always been a showman right from the beginning. Usher takes us track by track through his record breaking magnum opus, Confessions. Yes. And shares candid stories of scandal, romance and making music as he evolved from teen sensation to R and B legend. Listen, Confessions had everybody and they mama in they feelings, including me. And y'all don't wanna miss this. The Last Showman by Usher is out. Now head to audible.com usher and get ready for the ultimate showman to do what he does best. How do you keep the mystique that you have in this day and age? Obviously it's because we've known you for years. I'm sure just the effect of, hey, I'm Usher, they call me Usher. That's a part of it, right? But times change. You still have current hits, you know what I'm saying? Like, you're still dope even though the times have changed. And having mystique as an artist is not necessarily the thing that people do or can do. How have you been able to continue to evolve your storyline?

[Usher]

I think part of it is the inevitable nature of the fact that I can't and I'm now living in everything that chooses to be seen or either is seen becomes the story.

[Keke Palmer]

But you really know how to do it. It's really. I mean, obviously, it's probably just your gift, but it's really cool to see.

[Usher]

I don't know, Maybe in another 10 years, we can talk about it and not really understand what I was doing. I'm just living in it. I'm literally, you know, kind of being as open as I possibly can to new ideas and how things are done versus how things were done. And I'm trying not to be a person who's so conditioned to my past that I'm not considerate of how things have to be done and are inevitably being done. You know, mystique is something that is good and bad, like. Cause what I do struggle with now is the fact that I don't feel comfortable doing these kinds of interviews and talking. Cause I don't really know the nature of where it's gonna go, but. But I fuck with you. So I was like, I'm gonna come sit down with you, and we're gonna have a real conversation. And I'm also, too, gonna hopefully, you know, be comfortable enough to be able to be vulnerable and talk about life. And, you know, there's what you see, and then that's who I am. And there's, you know, some judgment that comes with that on the other side. But I don't really get concerned about that. I really am. I'm living my life, and I'm trying to be a, you know, a great artist, but greater than that, that a good person and a human. Right. I'm gonna go through flaws, go through ups and downs. And my entire career has, you know, kind of shown you that. Whether I was talking about it in music or just living through things, I've had some really, really tough times, and I've not had anybody to talk to about it. I've not had the opportunity to be able to kind of open up. That's. That's why I really was so excited about this audibles, you know, because it gave me the opportunity to be able to kind of peel the veil back and allow you to look at where I was mentally, you know, what happened with me between 8701 and then making this album that would change my entire life. Everything changed after that album. I could never go back to the lifestyle that I had before.

[Keke Palmer]

What was happening in your life at that time that even allowed you to create that album? Because something really key that you just said was, I was not able to. And for many years, not able to talk to anybody. Do you think that? But that. Even though that sounds Difficult and hard. Do you think that that's what you were putting into that music? That that was your freedom as the creation of all that stuff, all those different styles from hip hop to Fred Astaire type stuff, to R and B to pop. I mean, you melded so many things, right? Was that your. I mean, as an artist, that was your release.

[Usher]

That's my outlet. One people hadn't chosen to be kind of vulnerable, brash, honest, and then take what was happening in their lives and then put it on music. And if they did, they did it in a different way. It was kind of the mending of living in the world of hip hop, but also to being a vocalist, a performer, a consummate professional trying to figure out how to dance and sing and then melding, you know, putting those two ideas is together and creating, you know, who knows, man? Part of it could have been a little bit of all of it. But I'm trying my hardest to find the things that I think work best. Because now I just, I don't have an opportunity to sit down and have these conversations and people care enough, you know what I'm saying? Because there's one thing that I know what the expectation is. Oh yeah, you're going to talk about your thing, you're going to sell your product. That's going to be very transactional. But to be able to just really sit down and like talk about life and perspective and people care to listen. Because also too, some of it might become like, that ain't relevant to my life. You're not talking about shit that's relevant to me. So it'll probably go through one ear and out the other.

[Keke Palmer]

But I think everybody is trying to figure out how to keep the page turning, you know, so that is like, even if you're not Usher or you're not an artist, like, to stay engaged with life, to keep telling your own personal story. Whether you are a lawyer, a nurse, a student, you know, we're all looking for the things that can make us keep on and evolve and be engaged with life.

[Usher]

Well, they say you evolve or you evaporate. 1, 2. Chaos always leads to some perspective. Whether you choose to live in that chaos, it's up to you. But it is necessity. It is necessary in order to build. As you said, every lawyer wins a case, but he's got to go pick up another one. Every person has a grand moment and then they're going to fall again to get back up. Every team can and win a championship. They're gonna have to start all over next year. So it's like, that is kind of the practice of what music became to me. So I did use it as an outlet to some extent. But, no, I still want more. I wanna have more opportunities to be able to share, you know, some perspective.

[Keke Palmer]

That's what we need. That's what we need. I'm really glad that you was willing to talk to me, too. Like, I really appreciate that.

[Usher]

I guess getting to the other side of successful moments allow me to be able to give some perspective. I've lived in my suffering long enough to be able to write about those songs. Imagine being able to make an album where I can talk to you about the other side. I can talk to you about the journey of. Oh, I completely went to the bottom of this thing that you were so caught up in. And it was no longer about a superficial feeling. It was about something that mattered. And then I got myself into a better mental state, and then I moved forward. And here's the things that came to me, as opposed to me trying to go after it, to be able to share that would be valuable. Who knows? It could be a book, could be another audible. You know, this one was just celebratory because, you know, this magnum opus, Confessions, was, like, the one album that, you know, would make the difference in my life.

[Keke Palmer]

As a matter of fact, there was one. Oh, no, I went to the wrong one.

[Usher]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Yo, that's hilarious.

[Usher]

Where the hell you just go.

[Keke Palmer]

Yo, that's so funny. But I remember when Confessions came out, and it absolutely changed everything. It was one of those moments where you just like, wait a minute, is this true? This is life. When y'all was creating that. And obviously, everybody can check out the the Last Showman and really get into it deeper on audible. But when you were creating that album, did you expect for it to have that feedback? Did you plan how you were going to answer the questions or people gonna ask about what's happening in your life?

[Usher]

Like, no, I didn't, because it was not strategically about my life only. It was supposed to be about the types of things that we as men deal with and the reality of what happens. So, no, I wasn't like, let me gear up. I don't know. I was just like, yo, let's sit around like this, have real conversations about the shit that we deal with. Like, what you dealing with, bruh? Where you at? What you and your old lady going through? All right, this is what I'm going through too, man. Look, this what you get. This is what's getting ready to Happen, really. And then that perspective just started to create titles. I mean, you got it bad. Oh, shit, burn. Oh, it's just starting. That's always how that process has been. But making confessions was much deeper because we were talking about real toxic shit, you know what I'm saying? And, you know, I just wanted to make certain that people had a real outlet to not only. Here's another thing I want to say, and I think this is part of the reason I was like, yo, don't fall back, push forward. Here's an opportunity for us to make light of something that people are talking about. Like, let's. And then share your actual talent because you are one talented girl, man. I like woman. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, yo, you got so much talent. Show it. And that's when you got that. What this industry has taught me is that when it gets hot, don't run away from it. When it gets hot, run towards it. Don't run away from the fire, Run towards it. And actually find the best way to curate it because they gonna always have something crazy to say anyway. Why don't you just give em something positive to say? Cause you chose to make it a beautiful thing.

[Keke Palmer]

But I feel like that is something that I would often struggle with. And that's why when I have somebody, all people do.

[Usher]

And you know, primarily the reason why they do that is because they get caught up in the opinions of other people and they want the opinions of other people to stop. But it's like, no, you're talking about what made you feel seen too. Because by the way, you ain't the only. I ain't the only one that went through it and goes through shit. You going through something too.

[Keke Palmer]

And you were right too when we. Because like, for me, like I told you, I was that girl at 15, 16, 17, watching these videos, it's my journey as an artist, as a performer, as somebody that looks up to Usher, as the person that has literally been giving up amazing, impactful, cultural global hits for years, says, let's get up here and dance. That's my moment. No one gets to take that moment from me. That's a moment that I worked years to get from auditioning for in the Mix and not getting a part to starring in that video and getting a chance to show what I could do. I could talk to you all day and really get into the tea of this industry. But I'd love to end this a wonderful conversation with a game I play with all my guests.

[Usher]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. So it's gonna be pretty much Truth or dare, but a little bit with a confession vibe to it.

[Usher]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

So we can either pick truth, which would be confessions, or we can choose dare. I'm gonna give us two cups, and we're just gonna pick from the cups.

[Usher]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

This is the truth.

[Usher]

I'm gonna take the truth.

[Keke Palmer]

Wow, that was. We got there fast. Okay. Okay, go ahead. I'm excited.

[Usher]

Okay, here we go. Let's get to it.

[Keke Palmer]

If they're bad, it was the producers and not me.

[Usher]

Okay, here we go. Let me see. Is there any random, like, kind of process of how I should select? No, it's just whatever it is. Okay, cool.

[Keke Palmer]

Is it just whatever it is?

[Usher]

Okay. If you go back in time, is there a project that you've done that you wish you would have passed on?

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, interesting. It can't be. She's all that loved you in that.

[Usher]

Let me see if there's anything I could have passed on. Who? I don't know that I'm trying to figure out. I always managed to make them work for me.

[Keke Palmer]

I know that's right.

[Usher]

You know, I can say I'm happy that I passed on a couple of.

[Keke Palmer]

Them, you know, who you know, And.

[Usher]

I can say I'm actually unhappy that I passed on a couple of them, too. But let me see, which ones that I.

[Keke Palmer]

Which one did you pass up that you did? Wish you didn't know real quick, man.

[Usher]

I passed up on Dreamgirls.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, you would have been amazing.

[Usher]

Yeah, it was crazy, man.

[Keke Palmer]

What made you.

[Usher]

What came into your mind? I mean, a myriad of things. There was one of these contentious moments between me and kind of my agent and my mother because we were trying to figure out how to manage to make good sense. By the way, I don't really like talking about this because it always kind of gets sensitive for people who listen. But, you know, part of it was kind of the standard of how, you know, artists and creatives are paid in this. This town. The other was, hey, I'm in the middle of getting ready to launch a tour, and there's a huge overhead that I carry for all of the people that I'm getting ready to cancel for the fans as well as all of the people whom I employ. I just need to be able to have enough in order to offset what I'm getting ready to say no to. I really want to do this, but I need to. I gotta cancel an entire tour. So I didn't. I had to pass.

[Keke Palmer]

Dang.

[Usher]

Because we couldn't. We couldn't reach A Rick has said something.

[Keke Palmer]

Rick Famu has said something similar about you. I think you was auditioned or you did a great audition for the Wood, too. Do you remember this? Yeah, that would have been. But, you know, it's true. The industry does make you choose at times because people gotta pay their bills, you know, so it is a thing. But, I mean, it would've been crazy to see you in the Wood, and it would have been.

[Usher]

Timing is everything, though, man. Both of those were about timing because I'm once again, I didn't have a down season. You said that I've been literally touring forever, right? Until I decided to start having kids and things started slowing down. But I was always either working on a show or working on an album or working on a tour or working on a project, a collaboration. So if I didn't plan ahead and say, okay, this moment is specifically for a movie, and is there a movie available for me in that moment, it just came out. Like, will you audition? Yes, I'd love to do this. I had everybody calling me. I had Eddie Murphy calling me. I had Beyonce. Everybody was like, you need to really do this movie. David Geffen. Everybody's like, okay, but here's the dilemma that I have. I gotta cancel an entire tour. One, I'm gonna disappoint all of my fans in Europe. And also, two, I'm on the track for all of these people that I have to pay. So I need to make certain that I can offset and just pay my people. I know I'm not gonna make no money. That's not why I'm doing it. I'm doing it because I really want to be a part of an incredible story, and I regret having passed on that. But.

[Keke Palmer]

But, yeah, I mean, it happens. I loved hearing Pass on Cats too. Well, that was good.

[Usher]

That was good. I respect it. You know what I'm saying? But, nah, it was obviously not. We had passed.

[Keke Palmer]

Let me pull one out. Okay, so this is. I mean, this is for you. What's one song from your discography that you're tired of performing but fans won't let go of? Is there any song that you feel that way about with all your songs and stuff?

[Usher]

When I'm in Europe, they like me to perform this song called Poppy Collar.

[Keke Palmer]

I don't remember that.

[Usher]

See, that's what I'm saying. See, there's other types of music. I do all different types of. You know what I'm saying? But no, that's howling. Yes. This one song called Poppy Collar.

[Keke Palmer]

What does it sound like?

[Usher]

Hey, let is I.

[Keke Palmer]

He said, hey.

[Usher]

Poppy collar, don't let him sweat you. It's.

[Keke Palmer]

It's Puppy collar, don't let him sweat you. It was like, what era?

[Usher]

I mean, we was.

[Keke Palmer]

Why are you doing that?

[Usher]

We was like trying to pop up. We just trying to find something, you know, there was my guy, Shakespeare. He. You know what I'm saying? He had an idea.

[Keke Palmer]

He was ready for a dance. Soulja Boy must was big at that time. And this was your.

[Usher]

No, Soulja Boy boy wasn't know where. Anybody know who Soulja boy was? Soulja Boy was. Soulja Boy.

[Keke Palmer]

Soulja Boy.

[Usher]

Soulja Boy. No, not at the time. It was, you know, it was a huge dance video and we were trying to man instrument and it's huge over there. They love that song.

[Keke Palmer]

It's so interesting. What is huge in other places, like. And it. It ain't your thing, but it's like the thing that they love. I was just about to say something that. Oh, when I was little.

[Usher]

Woo.

[Keke Palmer]

Let me say my cousin and my sister, every time we was in the car, this was. I forget which album this was of yours, but it's when you were like, now tell me nice and slow. Nice and slow. Okay, so every time that was on the radio. Round the clock. Round the clock. When I tell you every time you would get to. Cause I mean, I loved you. But when you said the freaky part, I was like, ew, ew, gross. And every time my cousin and my sister would be pulling my hands off my ear like, you need to listen. You need.

[Usher]

You need to hear this. You need to hear this, girl.

[Keke Palmer]

I was like, oh, my gosh. I cute. I'm like, turn it off, Turn it off. Oh my gosh. That made me think about that. Okay, let's do another question.

[Usher]

Okay. Truth.

[Keke Palmer]

Your truth, your confessions. Usher give me his confessions yet again. Oh, this is similar to what we were talking about just a second ago. But is there a song you passed on that became a hit for someone else?

[Usher]

Um, just a friend. Mario's just a friend. Um, let me see you Just a friend. Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Don't say I'm just a friend. What made you pass on it?

[Usher]

Um, I don't know. I think it was just a matter of the sequencing of the record. Record. It was a jamming record. And later on they actually even released my. I either put out online my version of it.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, yeah. Okay, do another one. I'm just having too much fun with you. Oh. I mean, I feel like this was. I asked this one But I just feel like you don't even seem like the kind of person that gets embarrassed. It says, tell your most embarrassing moment on stage. Have you ever had? I mean, you was pulling your pants off on some.

[Usher]

Yeah, I mean, I don't really.

[Keke Palmer]

You don't get embarrassed. That's fine. Okay, hold on. This is interesting. Cause you're a Libra, right?

[Usher]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

What's the most diva thing you've done on tour?

[Usher]

The most diva thing I've done?

[Keke Palmer]

Like, do you have any special requirements? Like, there's gotta be two lemons, one tea. I need a trampoline. Like, do you have any crazy, wild writers?

[Usher]

Here's the thing about diva type behavior. I don't think the diva ever knows that they're being diva. So it just seems normal to me. It's not normal.

[Keke Palmer]

Sasha, ask your team.

[Usher]

Yeah, you might want to ask them. Cause it just seems normal for me to have all of the things that you need to have for your voice. And, you know, like, it tells me that you.

[Keke Palmer]

Everything is diva. Everything.

[Usher]

No, I mean. But I don't need the lights. I didn't tell you you need the lights. Dumb dimmed down. At a certain level.

[Keke Palmer]

They did tell me that. They told me that you wanted.

[Usher]

Well, it's a little bit too bright. I want to just tell you that. But also, too. And I don't see any white flowers in here. This is a problem for me. Hey, you need to let it be known, See, I mean, it's so likely that you're gonna stumble into some bad lighting, you know what I'm saying? So you gotta make certain that it's always right for you, honey. But nah, Red licorice in every, you know, kit that I have. I gotta make certain of it. Yeah, okay. Black cherry sodas. Need to have em.

[Keke Palmer]

Black cherry sodas.

[Usher]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

White flowers, yo.

[Usher]

But I just. White flowers. And it's chic. You know what I'm saying?

[Keke Palmer]

It's chic.

[Usher]

It's chic.

[Keke Palmer]

It's the hand. All right, Usher, I guess I gotta let you go. This is so sad. I've had a blast with you. Ooh, this is the last one. For real.

[Usher]

Okay.

[Keke Palmer]

I've been playing around. I was trying to trick you just then. How old were you when you had your first kiss? And who was it? That's a sweet one. We'll end on.

[Usher]

How old was I when I had my first kiss that I actually intended to have?

[Keke Palmer]

Now, wait a minute.

[Usher]

You know, I had. I. You know, there was a couple of, you know.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay, well, you know what, that one's stupid. It's out. Your favorite song ever that you've done, your favorite song of yourself and you could, if you want to pick one you. Your favorite one to sing.

[Usher]

I don't remember the girl's name. By the way. I'm trying to remember the girl's name. Yeah, I was trying to remember she.

[Keke Palmer]

Got five kids now.

[Usher]

Yes, you do, right? Yeah, man. He said yes, you do. Yeah, man, but I don't. I don't. Yeah, I don't remember my first. But I do remember the song playing on the radio. It was secret lovers and it was playing on the radio. Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

That's what we are trying so hard to find.

[Usher]

The way we feel.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes.

[Usher]

But I don't remember her name.

[Keke Palmer]

Now that's gonna be a gift. The secret lover.

[Usher]

The question you should ask is, was it with tongue?

[Keke Palmer]

See, now I feel the same as I began.

[Usher]

Yeah, I was too young to even be thinking like that. Now I have a question for you because I've asked a lot of truths of you. I mean, you've asked a lot of truths of me. Can I ask the truth of you?

[Keke Palmer]

I would love this.

[Usher]

Let's truth of you. And I don't have it on the thing. Is it true that I am single handedly the reason that you were having issues in your home? I just.

[Keke Palmer]

Usher, you know that's not true. I know. No way.

[Usher]

Please tell them that. No, no, no.

[Keke Palmer]

The people was in your comments. They was like, yet again they brought up that boondocks episode. Yeah, dude, they brought it out.

[Usher]

They be on me. I am not responsible for how you choose to react to what I do as an entertainer.

[Keke Palmer]

I do love that. That is. I mean, if there's like a thing that somebody would be known for is just being just bomb. Hey, I think that's a good one for you.

[Usher]

You came to have a good time that night.

[Keke Palmer]

I did and you did.

[Usher]

It looks fabulous, by the way. If you didn't wear what you wore, I wouldn't have seen you.

[Keke Palmer]

You.

[Usher]

He was fabulous. Amazing. I was like, woo. Kiki, come here, come here. Hey, come here, girl. Hey, hey, hey. Kiki, let's go. Come on. Let's, let's. Let's make a moment, baby.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh my God. Let's make a moment, baby. Y'all had that camera. I was like, I gotta gag him real quick. And we. And the funny thing was I even my little dance.

[Usher]

I was like, he's having fun.

[Keke Palmer]

I try to do a little something.

[Usher]

Yeah, they try to make it Seem like I single handedly had something to do.

[Keke Palmer]

No, guys, it's not Usher. You know, people have problems, relationships have up and downs.

[Usher]

People go through shit.

[Keke Palmer]

If Usher ends up being there, it's just coincidence. But afterwards I met Jennifer. I mean, it was such a nice night. Honestly, the things you guys don't see. But I'm glad they seen this and I'm glad you came to the show.

[Usher]

I'm so happy that I got a chance to be able to see you in your glory. I love seeing you continue to glow and grow every time I see you. Always like positive and always full of incredible energy. You deserve this and so much more. Here's to Oscars to you. Here's to Golden Globes to you. Here's to whatever awards come with what we're doing here. I think that you are an incredible woman.

[Keke Palmer]

Can I have a hug?

[Usher]

Yeah, man. Come on.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, man. You always. All right, y'all, that's a wrap on today's episode. I loved every minute of the conversation. I mean, it seemed like Usher isn't just a smooth singer and dancer, but he pretty smooth navigating life too. I guess my takeaway is that you got to do what's best for you. Keep evolving and engaging in life the best ways you can. Running into the hard stuff, as he so put it, because that's what's going to get you to the other side of creating something great. And I would say to also not be afraid to share because you never know who you're helping in the process by sharing what you've been through or what you've experienced. Anyway, hope you guys enjoyed. I'll catch you next time. Cause you know it's your girl. Baby, this is. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Keke Palmer. Yeah, enjoy. Baby this is Keke Palmer on the Wondery app, wherever you get your podcasts and now on YouTube where you can watch full episodes. Subscribe to the wondery channel on YouTube and don't miss any episodes. You can listen to Baby this is Keke Palmer early and ad free on Wondery. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Baby this is Keke Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Seagal is our post producer. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer for Team Keke. My producer is Sharon Palmer for Wondery. Our managing producer is Olivia Fonte. Our producer is Tristan McNeil. Senior producers are Lizzie Bassett and Candice Manriquez. Rin. Our executive producers are Dave Easton and Marshall Louis.