Why Issa Rae is NOT Issa Dee

Summary

Podcast Summary: Baby, This is Keke Palmer - Episode: "Why Issa Rae is NOT Issa Dee"

Release Date: January 14, 2025

In this engaging episode of "Baby, This is Keke Palmer", host Keke Palmer delves deep into the intricate relationship between real-life creators and their fictional characters. The episode features insightful conversations with Sharon Palmer and the acclaimed creator and producer, Issa Rae. Together, they explore the nuances of embodying fictional personas, leadership in creative projects, mentorship, and the delicate balance between personal life and artistic expression. Here's a detailed breakdown of their discussions:

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1. Holiday Reflections and Family Dynamics (00:00 - 04:43)

The episode opens with Keke Palmer sharing a personal moment from a family holiday vacation in Big Bear, California. Recording from a picturesque Airbnb, Keke and Sharon Palmer discuss the importance of family time amidst a hectic year.

• Sharon Palmer emphasizes simplicity:
  “I just want to continue to... be healthy and see my grandbabies and my kids grow, and that's it. I mean, just very simple things.”
  (03:20)

• Keke Palmer echoes the sentiment of balance:
  “I'm a very ambitious person... but as we've incorporated more vacation time, more time as a family... that also is equally important to me.”
  (03:51)

2. Introducing Issa Rae and Her Creative Journey (04:43 - 16:05)

Keke Palmer introduces Issa Rae, highlighting her multifaceted career as a producer, writer, and actress. They discuss Issa's role in Palmer's new film, "One of Them Days", and her work on the iconic HBO series "Insecure".

• Sharon Palmer praises Issa's wit and leadership on set:
  “She's very witty, very funny... a great thing to watch you women working and getting along.”
  (05:04)

• Keke Palmer admires Issa's ability to lead under pressure:
  “It's not easy to be a leader... seeing her do that in real time... I do applaud her because it was not easy.”
  (05:29)

3. The Impact of "Insecure" on Modern Television (16:05 - 24:07)

The conversation shifts to the groundbreaking aspects of "Insecure", emphasizing its departure from traditional multicam sitcoms by adopting a single-camera setup that offers a more cinematic and nuanced portrayal of Black characters.

• Keke Palmer explains the technical innovation:
  “Issa Rae took those elements of multicam sitcom and applied it to single cam... making amazing cinematic aesthetic choices.”
  (06:53)

• Sharon Palmer draws parallels with older shows:
  “I enjoyed the show and I liked it, but I'm not going to say it was for my generation... What was it about Insecure that you feel did that for you?”
  (06:18)

4. Leadership, Creativity, and Production Challenges (24:07 - 30:25)

Issa Rae shares her experiences transitioning from television to film production, highlighting the challenges of working within larger studio systems like Sony Pictures compared to the more autonomous environment of television.

• Issa Rae discusses the differences in production dynamics:
  “There's almost no communication. It's like there's no bargaining and you are fighting to prove yourself on every level.”
  (16:53)

• Keke Palmer appreciates the collaborative spirit:
  “I love that you champion Serita in this way... we got to work together. We got to figure it out together.”
  (40:21)

5. Mentorship and Building a Creative Community (30:25 - 37:21)

The dialogue transitions to the importance of mentorship and fostering a supportive creative community. Issa Rae emphasizes building with like-minded individuals to create authentic and impactful content.

• Issa Rae on mentorship:
  “It started with this... how can I use whatever resources I have to ensure that that happens while still continuing to build my own stuff up.”
  (36:06)

• Keke Palmer underscores the value of authentic storytelling:
  “Our stories are always going to be the best coming from us because we know our culture inside out.”
  (39:28)

6. The "Insecure" Series Finale and Its Implications (37:21 - 35:25)

Keke Palmer and Issa Rae reflect on the emotional and cultural significance of the "Insecure" series finale. They discuss the bravery required to conclude the series in a way that stays true to the characters' evolution and personal growth.

• Keke Palmer praises the finale's messaging:
  “Somebody's got to say, hey... we both messed up, but let's Get There Together.”
  (33:10)

• Issa Rae emphasizes character integrity:
  “We wrote it that way... she chooses her best friend. She already did that.”
  (34:48)

7. Interactive Segment: "Here for it or Not" (42:37 - 45:56)

In a fun and revealing game segment, Keke Palmer engages with Issa Rae in "Here for it or Not," where they discuss potential New Year's resolutions, showcasing their personalities and mutual respect.

• Issa Rae humorously declines giving up binge-watching reality TV:
  “Nah, nah. That's all I do. That's my comfort zone.”
  (43:03)

• Keke Palmer contemplates personal growth:
  “I want to take a page out of that book with you too, girl. I got to reel it in in the best way.”
  (45:45)

8. Closing Thoughts and Future Endeavors (45:56 - End)

As the episode wraps up, Keke Palmer and Issa Rae discuss upcoming projects, including future films and continued collaboration. Keke encourages listeners to explore storytelling as a means of personal and communal expression.

• Keke Palmer on storytelling's impact:
  “It's about exploring these conversations... I want to know what those stories say about you.”
  (46:03)

• Issa Rae affirms commitment to impactful narratives:
  “It's about building legacy.”
  (25:51)

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sharon Palmer on family simplicity:
  “I never do that resolution thing... I just want to continue to... be healthy and see my grandbabies and my kids grow.”
  (02:16)

• Keke Palmer on leadership balance:
  “I need to set some stuff straight because you're... trying to make sure I'm supporting everybody's individuality.”
  (29:27)

• Issa Rae on creative boundaries:
  “I have to create those boundaries... it's rough.”
  (22:35)

• Sharon Palmer on parental accountability:
  “Don't ever raise kids that don't have accountability... when they're hurting, you have to let them know you got their back.”
  (14:02)

---

Conclusion

This episode of "Baby, This is Keke Palmer" offers a profound exploration of the relationship between artists and their creations, the responsibilities of leadership in creative industries, and the importance of mentorship and community building. Through candid conversations and personal anecdotes, Keke Palmer and her guests provide listeners with valuable insights into navigating the complexities of blending personal experiences with artistic expression.

For those interested in the intersection of personal life and creative work, leadership in the entertainment industry, and the evolution of television narratives, this episode is a must-listen.

Transcript

[Keke Palmer]

This episode is sponsored by longtime supporters of the POD Airbnb. Today we are recording from a beautiful Airbnb in the mountains of California that I found by visiting guest favorites. See, this is what I mean when I say some trips are better in an Airbnb. Now, let's get rolling. Hey there, listeners. So I've been wondering about artists that make fictional stories that are very closely inspired by their personal lives. How do they do it? Does it ever feel too vulnerable? Do they ever make their friends angry by basing characters on them? So I'm having someone on who's a dear friend of mine and someone who produced my new film, One of Them Days. That's right. Who better to chat with about this stuff than the incredibly talented creator of the deeply personal show, Insecure, Issa Rae. So get ready because, baby, this is Keke Palmer.

[Issa Rae]

No matter what we doing in the car, just chilling, pop on Amazon music.

[Keke Palmer]

Sit back and listen. Life, love, sex, science, covering it all.

[Issa Rae]

Especially the fact is money always of all no matter what it is, we going to make it make sense. Nothing else will do but kick it with the homies and king. So grab you a drink and a snack you enjoy and get into the vibe that only wants you know it's your girl. This is Kiki, baby. This is Kiki Pa. Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

We are in this very fabulous Airbnb for the holiday season up in Big Bear. Sharon, are you feeling the vibe? Yes.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yes.

[Keke Palmer]

Honey, how excited are you for our holiday vacation with the fam?

[Sharon Palmer]

I am so excited to not do anything. I mean, guys, because we got a whirlwind year. It's a blessing.

[Keke Palmer]

But every year we do something as a family. We go somewhere together for Christmas or for also New Year. Sometimes both. This year we're doing a fun little Christmas moment in Big Bear because my sister L'Oreal, said up and down that she needed us to go somewhere cold this holiday. She was like, no more tropical places.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yes.

[Sharon Palmer]

Because last year we were in Antigua, which was really fun. But before we move on, I just want to say congratulations to you for bestselling author, New York Times bestselling author. Yay. I had to say that.

[Keke Palmer]

Thank you, girl. Thank you. Boo.

[Sharon Palmer]

See that? Master of me. Everyone go get a copy. It's awesome.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, my gosh. I can't wait. There's so much going on with that after the holidays that we have coming tours, just more experiences to create around self mastery. You know how much that is important to me.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yes. Yes. But this Big Bear is so beautiful. It is. We Were driving up and saw the lake. It's just really. It lets you know there is a God.

[Keke Palmer]

Okay. When you're definitely looking at all this beauty, this view.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

So shout out to Airbnb, shout out to Big Bear. Yes. Now, I want to get into Issa Rae, but I also want to get into a little bit of the holidays. Just quickly, how are you feeling about coming to the year's end? Do you have any New Year's resolutions? Anything you want to get ready for? I mean, it's been a crazy year, Sharon.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah. I think my, first of all, I'm so thankful for last year, so I have to say, thank God. And my family was healthy. The kids are healthy. Little Leo is growing up and getting taller, and Lili and all of my grandbabies, I just, like, I, I never do that resolution thing.

[Keke Palmer]

I don't really either.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah. You know, I always lose weight. No, I'm good.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Mom, you crazy.

[Sharon Palmer]

I mean, I'll never. I, I. You know what, though? I do want to eat healthy.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Sharon Palmer]

You know what I mean? That's real talk. I do. I want to eat for energy. You know what I mean? I want to find out what foods would actually give me energy. But what do I want to do? I just want to continue to, you know, just be healthy and see my grandbabies and my kids grow, and that's it. I mean, just very simple things.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

I feel similarly. I just want to incorporate even more balance into my life as it pertains to being. I'm a very ambitious person, you know, that I love to, you know, set goals for myself, and it gets me excited for the year to have something to look forward to. But as we've incorporated more vacation time, more time as a family. Yeah. That also is equally important to me and having that balance throughout my year. And so I think every year I keep getting better with that, and so I want to keep on that road.

[Sharon Palmer]

That's awesome, because, you know, you work so hard and, and you should have moments to enjoy the fruits of your labor, Right?

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Sharon Palmer]

So if you're always on the go, always on the go, always on the go, always entertaining other people, always making. Being a people pleaser and making sure everybody else is good, that's not good for you. So, yeah, definitely. Let's find the balance.

[Keke Palmer]

I love that. Okay. Well, with that, let's get into our girl, Issa Rae.

[Sharon Palmer]

Oh.

[Keke Palmer]

Who is so fabulous. I've really gotten a chance to get to know her over the course of one of them. Days and getting to actually see who she is as a producer and a writer on the set of one of them days. Just watching her keep the pace on set, be ready to always shift gears to make things funner, better to collaborate with her team in real time.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah, that's what I noticed about it. What I noticed. She's very witty.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, very sharp.

[Sharon Palmer]

Very witty, very funny. You know, great with the one liners. And I watched her as she would be watching the monitor, and then she'd have an idea and she'd physically get up and run, you know, and collaborate with you. And it was just really a great thing to watch you women working and, you know, getting along, and it was awesome.

[Keke Palmer]

And I think something about her and something about anybody that has leadership, you know, you can nitpick all day, but it's not easy to be a leader. It's not easy to take all the punches. It's not easy to have to course correct. And so seeing her do that in real time and us to get to the end of the finish line, I do applaud her because it was not easy. We did that movie in 20 days. Now, a lot of what I want to talk about with Issa is also having to do with the fact that she is a star in front of the camera, like, regardless of all the great work she's done behind the scenes, from creating Awkward Batgirl to creating Insecure and everything in between. I even seen Dear White People recently and saw her doing a little part in that. I was like, dang, Issa been grinding. But she's the star of one of the most iconic shows of my generation.

[Sharon Palmer]

Right. And why is that?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Cause.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah, I'm asking you that. Because I'm a totally different generation.

[Keke Palmer]

Sure.

[Sharon Palmer]

And I enjoyed the show and I liked it, but I'm not going to say it was for my generation. Yeah, but what was it about your generation like? For me, my generation was, you know, living single. Living single? Yeah. I was a young woman. I was like, maybe in my late 20s, maybe 28, something like that. For Living Single, I say when I was a teenager, it has to be like the Cosby show, something like that. Those were iconic shows that changed the culture. What is it about Insecure that you feel did that for you?

[Keke Palmer]

Well, it's interesting because a lot of the shows that you would mention, they're multicam sitcom. So I think that Issa Rae took those elements of multicam sitcom and applied it to single cam, which is something that was really aesthetically pleasing, especially for a black show. Like, up until that point, it had to be like Girlfriends or something like that.

[Sharon Palmer]

Explain that, because I'm not. Is it like a lot of different cameras?

[Keke Palmer]

So multicam sitcom would be Girlfriends, it would be Living Single. It would be, you know, 30 minutes or less.

[Sharon Palmer]

And they had multiple cameras from different angles.

[Keke Palmer]

Multiple cameras, different angles. You got the laugh track in the back, which is iconic classic. This is in no way saying that we need to go away from that, but it is to point out that I think Issa Rae, if I'm giving you a starting point on its impact, is that it was one of the most popular shows that we also saw doing single cam with black, nuanced characters with a real specific decision to make amazing cinematic aesthetic choices in terms of cinematography, that's pretty good. Like all the space in between the actors that gave more impact to the narrative of what was going on. It definitely was huge in terms of leaps and bounds of, you know, representation in the art form. So that's one end of it, I personally think.

[Sharon Palmer]

So the technical side of it, the.

[Keke Palmer]

Creators, I mean, I think it inspired a lot the creator. I think it inspired a lot of people to start shooting like that. So, yes, I think aesthetically it gave an opportunity to view into black representation in television in a way that we hadn't all the way seen, because it really had a pulse on the things that we were talking about and going through. You know, there are universal truths about coming of age and coming of age between 20 to 30.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

On your way to 40. The growing pains of the loss of innocence of. I'm actually not going to have a picture perfect, but I got to choose Joy in the way that's best for me.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, I've got to figure out what my path is. And again, there's a universal truth of growing Pains. But I think the part that if. If it did or didn't alienate you or someone of another generation, it would be because it was also specific on what was happening with us.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

Which was, you know, the social media, you know, the way that we were dating and going out also is specific to la. So either you love LA and you love it for that, or you like to know what they doing in la.

[Sharon Palmer]

And, you know, you touched on something too, because I don't think my generation, like, I was in high school from like 1982-84, 85, and we didn't have a show like Insecure. We did have a lot of sitcoms and, you know, we gravitated to the sitcoms and I know for me, when I was about maybe like 17 or 18, I saw a show called. And this is one of the reasons why Bruce Willis. I'm just such a huge fan of Bruce Willis, because when I saw Moonlighting, it was a show called Moonlighting. The way they shot it, the rhythm of the show, the way he talked, it just was fantastic to me. I had never seen any show like that, and I became an instant fan.

[Keke Palmer]

I never seen that show.

[Sharon Palmer]

You should see it. It's. It's our show. It was a detective show. It was about a model, Cybill shepherd, who lost her money. Someone, one of her business managers ran off with her money, and so she had to go over all her ass. And one of the assets that she had was this detective agency. And so she's like, okay, this is all I got. So she went in to see the employees, and he was one of the employees, and he was just a hot mess. But the things he was saying, the jokes he was making and the rhythm of it and the way it was filmed, and it was just a really great show. And I think for my generation, that was a show that really changed the way we watch television. Obviously, we discovered Bruce Willis, and I.

[Keke Palmer]

Think that Issa Rae's show, and it's funny because I feel like the Bernie Mac show, who also was collaborated by the same person that collaborated with Issa Rae on Insecure, Larry Wilmore. He did something different for the sitcom world when he did the Bernie Mac show. The way that looked, the way that vibe was absolutely. But even still, I think they did something, you know, even more, I would guess, I would say progressive with Insecure because they tackled the reality that life doesn't get resolved in 30 minutes or less.

[Sharon Palmer]

No.

[Keke Palmer]

And I think that's what we love about sitcoms. But that also can be something that you don't love about multicam sitcoms or sitcoms in general. It's like things don't get finished in 30 minutes or left. I don't get at the end of the episode. Sometimes I don't get to sit with comfort. And that's what. That's what insecure would. It would make you sit with discomfort at times. You had to wait till the next episode. That's why people would have watch parties and all this kind of stuff.

[Sharon Palmer]

Maybe I might have to go back.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I did.

[Sharon Palmer]

I watched the first season and then I kind of tailed off.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, she mentioned me in the first season because she had this job that she hated. You know, her character had this job that she hated. And she was like, maybe we should just tell the kids that Keke Palmer is coming.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yes.

[Keke Palmer]

Even if she doesn't show up, we can just apologize later. And I was like, what? I thought that was the coolest thing ever. But yeah. So I'm excited to talk to her about the reality that also on the show, she's Issa Dee and her real name is Issa Rae.

[Sharon Palmer]

Wow.

[Keke Palmer]

And so how often and how much of herself she put into the show, how much she didn't. Because I do think there's a meta art thing going on in our millennial generation in general, where being close to your character is almost seen as a must.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah. Well, have you ever played a character that really was very, very similar to you? I know you get this question a lot, but, you know, the one that.

[Keke Palmer]

Was closest to me, I would say would be True Jackson vp working at a grown up job, never really knowing I could work that hard because that's what I've always been doing as a kid entertainer. Like True Jackson VP had a job as a fashion designer. I had a. Of being a star of my own TV show.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Right.

[Keke Palmer]

And we both had to figure out how to manage the responsibility of that. And so I grew up with the character. True. Just as much as I was growing up in my personal world and figuring out who I want to be and how to maintain my goals and chasing my dreams. But obviously I'm not. True. You know what I mean? But that's the most. I think that character I identify with a lot.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say that as well. I would say if I were actors there, you know, everybody always say that I remind them of this character on Good Times. This is an old TV show, Wilona. Yes. Everybody's like, you're the loudmouth neighbor, Wilona.

[Keke Palmer]

The funny thing about you is that you're actually not a loud mouth neighbor like you. You have. Somebody has to come to your house for you to get loudmouthed.

[Sharon Palmer]

Yes.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, like you will get into some stuff with folks, but this takes a second to get there. You can be so reserved.

[Sharon Palmer]

But isn't that funny though, how some people see you one way and other people see you another way? I'm often put in a box. I'm often. People often categorize me as this, you know, mama bear, you know, you better leave Kiki alone. She will attack. Well, I will attack, but I'm. I don't attack for no reason.

[Keke Palmer]

You know what I mean?

[Sharon Palmer]

I'm not just this crazy woman running around cussing people out it's not like that. You know, I really have to be provoked, and I sit and watch you for a while. I'm a Virgo, so Virgo sit back and we watch. When it comes to your.

[Keke Palmer]

People say that, even though I know you don't like the mama bear, I think people say the mama bear thing because maybe a lot of people aren't doing that as moms. I don't know. But, like, your trigger point is your kids. I don't care if it's me, Loria. I mean, remember you cussed out the archdiocese when they was being racist towards her at the private school? So you don't have any problem doing something when it comes to your kids.

[Sharon Palmer]

I just think.

[Keke Palmer]

I love that about you.

[Sharon Palmer]

I just think, thank you. I just think sometimes people need to know that you have their back. And I think as a parent, you should let your kids know you have their back, no matter what the situation is. No, do not hold them. If they're criminals and they're doing crazy stuff, you should hold them accountable.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Sharon Palmer]

Don't ever raise kids that don't have accountability. But what I'm saying is, when they're hurting, when things are wrong or going bad for them, you should be there for them to let them know you got their back.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right.

[Sharon Palmer]

And if you're not there, who else will be for them? So I do feel sorry for people who don't have that type of relationship with their parents and stuff, but I'm not gonna apologize for caring about my fucking kids. I'm sorry.

[Keke Palmer]

That's right. I love that. I love that. I don't know how we got there, but I did love the speech. Okay. I'm excited to get in this with Issa, see how much she is like Issa D. Or if she's really simply just Issa. Rae.

[Issa Rae]

Baby, this is. This is Kiki.

[Keke Palmer]

You know, my next guest from her iconic, groundbreaking HBO series Insecure. Since then, she's continued to do amazing things like American Fiction Barbie, has endless Emmy, Golden Globe nominations, also has an amazing restaurant, Somerville, that I need to get me a seat to go eat at. And of course, her wine company, you know, it's my girl, Issa Rae. Hey, boo.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Hey, what's up, Keke?

[Keke Palmer]

You know, everything is good. I'm living a good life because I've gotten to see you back to back days because we're doing all this press for our new movie, One of Them Days. How are you feeling?

[Unnamed Speaker]

One of them Days. I'm so excited that we got here, I was telling you yesterday, like this has been a long journey and props to you. Cause you've been here since the beginning and so much has happened since then for you. Like you are already doing big things. But I feel like your star has just risen on a massive scale and you still stay down, you still stay committed to making this. So I'm grateful and happy.

[Keke Palmer]

I mean, I've been watching you not only in front of the camera, but I get to see a close up view of you as a producer. I mean, you've been producing, you've produced Insecure. I mean, so many different things with Hooray Media. But I'm thinking, you know, how different or exciting has this particular situation been with one of them days? I mean, it's Sony Pictures. It's a really big deal.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, this is different. Producing, not Insecure. I mean, so much of it was mine and it was like the TV system and I had a good mentor and apprentice. This was different, a different beast. Because real shit they be, they'll be like, this the money you gonna get and this the time you're gonna get. Make it work. And that's different in that like there's almost no communication. I don't. It's not no communication. It's like there's no bargaining and you are fighting to prove yourself on every level. And it was fun. Parts of it were fun, the development process, but there's also like on the TV side, there's a trust of your voice and your expertise while they still know what works in television. But on the studio side they're like, we know that these things work. We have to hit these marks and if not the movie not gonna be made. So it's like, it's different. I learned a lot and it's helped me even as I'm writing my own movies right now. And like what I'm looking at and understanding and even seeing, you know, previews and that whole process, you don't get that on tv. You don't get to test your pilot in front of a real audience and make adjustments. So all of that is, is interesting.

[Keke Palmer]

I love what you said about the creativity because one of the comments that I love the most, and I think it's a testament to your creative vision, is before they even saw Issa Rae name come up on one of them days trailers, they were like, this is the Issa Rae production. So I'm curious because obviously this is one of the, to me, the groundbreaking things about Insecure. Not only the narrative storytelling, but Also the look in the feel, it broke barriers to me in terms of, you know, breaking us out of that, you know, everyday 30 minute sitcom vibe and look and giving us all this different, just like cinematic element to television. So, you know, growing from that beginning of that show to where you are now, how would you describe your, you know, your aesthetic for your brand of shows or movies and how did you develop it?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Thank you for that. It's the collaborative process, like, I take it as a high compliment. And you know, like for Insecure, the look was set by Melina Matsoukis and she's a phenomenal dresser.

[Keke Palmer]

Oh, shout outs to Melina.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Shout out to Melina. And she's, you know, she comes from the music video world. She super notices everything, like just every single detail, every color, every wallpaper, every bathroom tile, like, that's her. And then we worked with Ava Perkovsky, who has our cinematographer on Insecure and join us for this movie. She has such a great eye and in that way, like my, my aesthetic is just like, I love LA so much. This is an LA movie, LA set movie. And so that's always going to be a character and pronounced. But generally I don't. I think it's a feel like this is a movie about female friendship. It's a movie about, I mean, gentrification, all things that we've touched on. And there's maybe a sense of humor that people might associate with me, but it's so collaborative, as you know.

[Keke Palmer]

I love that. I love to hear that shout out to all those people because you're right, it is a team. And I definitely feel like you have an amazing team. I feel like it's probably the same people that you've been working with since the beginning, would you say?

[Unnamed Speaker]

For the most part, yeah. Some people I found along the way, but like some of the talent and stuff, like Sarita, who wrote the movie. We've been knowing each other since before Insecure. And Lawrence I met along the way, but he worked with me on rap shit. So it's just, you get the people you know and then you find new people who are just like, oh, you're so good. Like, join a clique. Let's make something together.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. I feel like in our generation there's this big meta art thing that I feel like I've been like, looking at. And what I mean by that is I don't know if it's because of reality TV or if it's just because of social media, but we always feel like our life is directly reflecting the Art. And I know you speak a lot about how you use your own personal stories, a part of Insecure, whether they were your stories or friends or what was around you. And so I'm curious in the process of that, how you made sure to not overexpose yourself or feel like you're being overexposed in terms of creating this character that is Issa D. And still maintaining to be Issa Rae.

[Unnamed Speaker]

What a good question. And I, I wonder the same for you. Like, I, I, I navigated that, and, you know, we went through this era where it was just like, people want more of you. They want more of your life. They want it like, they want to feel in touch and in tune with you. And part of me was just like, no, do they really know that? Do they, like, do I want that? Do. Do. Am I ready for that? And especially, I think I saw early on with Insecure in those seasons, you know, spoiler alert. My character cheats on her, man. And, like, the hate that I got as myself, I was just like, dang, this is. People are having trouble distinguishing me, like, getting called a cheater on the streets. I'm like, it's a story, please. And I was thinking that a little bit personally, but, like, that, that was interesting to me, where I was like, oh, I have to be super intentional about, like, what I share about myself. I like, I like that people are upset with this character. There's a visceral reaction, but I don't want people to conflate me with what they see and overly think they know me because, like, everybody thinks you're their best friend in so many ways. And I know that that has to be like, you have to create those boundaries. And, you know, it's a high compliment in some ways, but, yeah, it's rough.

[Keke Palmer]

I asked that question because I do feel like we're both similar. Maybe it's the earth sign energy, but it's like, I do put myself in my work because I want to explore these conversations. It's not because I'm ashamed or I have, you know, I want to be seemed as perfect, but it's also because I feel like art is the best place to do that. I don't feel like it's appropriate for me to be like, here's all my business, but for me to alchemize it, you know, that would be so weird if I just came up to you and be like, so let me tell you what I did last night. That would be so weird. I don't want to waste your time, but If I want to take something that I've experienced in my life and have it to be of service to you, then I will represent it in my work. And then I do try to be as private as I can, you know, about my personal life. Again, not because I'm trying to be secretive, but because I feel like I gotta do that to protect the people in my life, to make sure I have something for myself and to make sure that I'm using my platform wisely. I don't want to give you bullshit. I don't want to give you bitter ass tea, you know, Truly.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Truly. And you touched on it too. Like, it is therapeutic. Like, I wasn't in real therapy till, like, last year. And there's so. Something so great about being able to work that out. Like, whether you're in the writer's room or on screen or just doing it with yourself, like, there's just. It really is just. It's fulfilling in that way to kind of examine yourself and to be a bit more self aware. So in that way, like, the art is. Is the purest form. And that separation is also like, oh, I got it out, and now it's out of me in a way, and now it's for you. Like, that part of the story is for you.

[Keke Palmer]

And again, the brilliance of the character, Issa D. Is that she was also living that in her own universe, where she's figuring out how her personal life affects her business and how her security and who she is as a person in her everyday life can make her expand in her world and her career and help her to have clarity and define who she wants to be. And so I want to know for you, graduating from Awkward Black Girl Insecure, what that world was for you. What is that end game? In the same way that we figured out what it was for Issa D. What is it for Issa Rae, that this next chapter for you has been about this?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Jesus Christ.

[Keke Palmer]

I know. It's been about so much.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. And it's been about honing. And honestly, like, that's what I've been trying to, like, lock in on what that is specifically, because it extends beyond the entertainment industry to me. And I have found that community is really important to me and building, and that can be done via storytelling really effectively in terms of using a platform to shine a light on things that I care about that are issues. But it's also about doing the work. And I'm like, what's my version of doing the work? I don't want to be in politics But I can affect politics. I can, you know, create or collaborate in programs. But the next chapter of my life, I think, will be more philanthropic in a way that isn't. Like, I'm not Mother Teresa in this bitch, but I'm like, I care. And I want to make sure that I'm not just doing things that are useless in the long run. It is about building legacy.

[Issa Rae]

Yeah.

[Keke Palmer]

I feel like me growing up in my experience of going on Tyler Perry sets and seeing how everybody there is like, community vibes. I felt a similar thing with you from even down to the black owned water bottles that we were using. And I don't know that people understand, like, that's, that's a real commitment, you know. So, like, for you, like, was that something that you say to the people on your team and you have. And they make sure that, hey, this is important to Issa. We have to make sure that we have something black owned, something, you know, like, how did you start making that a cause? You know, it's not something that we can do on our owns. I think people just think, oh, just do it and just say it. But you do have to have people help carry that out. So how did you make sure that was something that was a part of your brand and your production company?

[Unnamed Speaker]

I'm so glad you said that, because it's not. It is. It's something that people have to be like minded to also be able to carry that out. So it starts with conversations of, like, what can we do and how can we help? And if I'm not working with the like minded, you know, costume designer in, in Ayanna James and Shiona Tarini, like, who are like, well, we're gonna get black designers, you know, that's our part. Or that's right in the props department, them seeing the ethos and being like, okay, well, I found this great black owned wine company and we, we got this and, and like that. That's those conversations happening. And once people see other people are doing it, then it's such an easy, it's such an easy thing to do. It really, it's not that hard. And I think once people realize that and that they're mission aligned already, then it becomes easier. And that's kind of what I look for in collaborators is just that general awareness. People who are mission driven and it's disappointing when they're not. But it's like, then I don't need to work with you.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. I think that's also something that is good leadership is the fact that you can empower other people to have leadership and that their voices matter. And you've spoken a lot about also having, you know, connecting to your peers, connecting to your community and your network of like minded people. So I think that just echoes that same thing. I'm curious of what the hardest part about being a leader has been or that you've learned in, you know, having to be the leader of something that could be helpful to other people that are entrepreneurs.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I think general balance of management, you know, leadership is its own job. And when yeah comes to like being a creator, it comes to having multiple businesses like your, your focus is shifted and it, I think it's really important if you're going to be an entrepreneur to put resources in reading and learning how to be the best leader you can be and if not to devote resources to the person that you want to run your stuff. You know, I think that that's, that's something that I've had to learn along the way is just like as hands on as I am and as controlling as I am, I need help and I need, I can't. There's certain, there's, there's certain skill sets that I'm just not equipped for yet because I don't have the time to be the best and I want to be the best, you know, so that's been a learning curve and also just nipping things in the bud when they happen. Sometimes you could see something a mile away and just be like, ah, I'll get to that later. Like, or maybe they'll figure it out on their own. Like they'll, they'll handle that, that'll be handled. And then if I had just addressed it in the moment when I saw it, then I would have saved myself conflict or time or whatever it is. And I've gotten a bit better about being like, let me nip this shit in the bud right now.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, yeah. I feel like I'm the same way because sometimes I think being a leader, especially if you're somebody that's like not trying to always be like, I'm the boss of this, then you can find yourself like, oh, wait a minute. People actually want me to be like, I'm the boss of this and, and, and set some stuff straight because you're. Yeah, yeah, you're thinking about like, I don't know, like I'm trying to make sure I'm supporting everybody's individuality. But then it does, you know, as a leader it is kind of hard when you're a chill person to be like no, I'm the person that's got to set up and be like. But then knowing when the time to do that is right and when not, it's very. It's definitely a thing, you know.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah. And I don't want to be reductive, but it is, like, how. How they say that, like, kids need discipline, and obviously everybody's adults here, but we crave discipline, we crave order. We crave, like, knowing a direction. And that's why you have to be kind of. You have to be confident in. In putting your foot down in certain instances.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. I'm definitely learning. Learning that myself. So I want to ask you, because I think you do a great job at. Obviously, you're so huge in terms of representation, not just for women, but friendships, for millennials, for black peoples. The list goes on. But that's also a lot of pressure. So I'm curious of how you manage your personal perspective and then just what people expect to hear or see about us. Like, how much. When do you have to let go of over being conscious about what you're representing?

[Unnamed Speaker]

I don't think about it at all, honestly, unless. Until it's coming out. Until, like, oh, shit. Like, this is. This is how people are viewing it. But when I'm making something, it really is just, like, what I want to see. I don't think I'm carrying anything on my back. Like, I just want to make the best possible product. And it also comes just innate. It's inherent for me to, like, think about the audience that is that I'm thinking about whether that's, you know, my friends and family who are mostly black, like, that's what I think about. And then it gets wider from there. But I don't. I feel like I would get tired if I was constantly thinking, like, oh, they want so much from me.

[Keke Palmer]

I want to know what you thought and what you and your team came to when you guys ended insecure. Because I personally really loved and appreciated the way that it ended. And I'll tell you why. Because first of all, I do think that love can be messy. I'm not saying it has to be toxic, but I think that dealing with human beings is not easy at any point, you know, and we talk and give love, love and basketball, drama and all the romantic classics drama. But I do think there's part of that that is true, that somebody's got to be brave. And it's not about gender biases, but somebody's got to say, hey, you know what? We both messed up, but let's Get There Together. And what I loved about the ending of Insecure with Issa D. Being such a career driven person, so smart, so amazing, all these things that she got to define what love was for her without. He needs to be this and he needs to be that. And once this happens, he's done. Girl, where she was just like, I love this man. And if he had this baby and I still wanna be with this man, I'm still gonna be with this man. I don't give a fuck what y'all think and how that makes me less of a woman. And I got to be black and strong. And look, I'm good, he's good, we're good. I know y'all had to be talking about that because, you know, that's big for us in our community when it comes to these men. And so, you know, a lot of people were like, she should have just ended with her bestie. And it's like, but what she wanted love, though, you know? So how did you guys decide that was the best thing to do? Because it told me so much about you and I really appreciated that messaging.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Thank you. And I love just what you said. Somebody's gotta be brave. Like, that is. I'm about to write that down because it's so real in so many of, like, when it comes to pride, too, there's so much pride in our decisions, and there's bravery in putting our pride aside and going after what you want unapologetically. And there were definitely discussions in the room. I was opposed to it initially, and I went on my own journey because I was. I know I just said I don't think about, like, the audience, but when something's already on the air, like insecure, there's. There's always pressure in series finales and that question. It's important and it's long lasting if you do it right. And I like that people are talking about it. I like that people are mad about it and have questions. And I like that people love it, obviously. But, you know, for me, I had to separate my own personal biases and what I wanted for the character, what I wanted for myself from Issa Dee. And I had to objectively look at, like, her journey. And we had set this. Lawrence is her soulmate. I don't care what nobody says, that was her soulmate. And we wrote it that way. And I think for me, what I was going back and forth about was just. Yeah, the empowering thing that you just mentioned of. Just, like, she chooses herself or she chooses her Best friend. She does choose her best friend. She already did that. There was a love story about Issa and Molly, but, like, if I'm watching something and somebody was like, I choose me, that's not for me. I'm sorry. I hate shit. Because it's such a message.

[Keke Palmer]

And it doesn't feel like it's for you either. It feels like it's for other people that you like.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It feels like it's for other people. Yeah. And it's on display, and it's just like, go, black girl. And it's like, that's not the story that I want to tell. That's already a part of it. Go, black girl is always what it is. So for me, exactly. It was about, like, this is what. This girl loves this man, and she has grown. They have grown separately and helped each other to grow. They found their way back to each other, and this obstacle happens. But, like, as long as they love each other and they're committed to each other and committed to making it work, what's the problem?

[Keke Palmer]

I just love you for that forever and always. Just so, so good. So I want to get into a little bit of your mentorship and also how that feeds into the work you do with your production company, because you started working with Syreeta Singleton in a workshop you had, and from there, I mean, she started working on Insecure, and then obviously, she wrote One of them Days. So what was the process of building something like that? Because here we are again at the basis of community and then also entrepreneurship. You know, I don't think that a lot of people have systems, especially people like us, that they can be a part of that will help them graduate to getting to where they want to go. So what was the process of you getting something like that off the ground?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, it's so interesting because, like, I never thought about it as mentorship, because I felt like I was. And it really started from a place of just fandom. Like, oh, man, I really like this girl's writing, and I want to see it on screen. Like, how can I use whatever resources I have to ensure that that happens while still continuing to build my own stuff up? And I feel like I'm really grateful to her because she, like that reading that inspired a whole different division of the company, which ultimately became a management company. And so, like, I always talk about the importance of, like, looking next to you and building with the person who you're trying to grow with, because that also just. It allows you both to find avenues. She's successful on her own. I'm successful on my own and we can still come together and create. And like, that is a model I've tried to replicate with so many other writers and have and will continue to. But it's just. It starts with, I love your work and I want to see you succeed, period.

[Keke Palmer]

One of them days, obviously she wrote that. How did she pitch that to you? Was the script already done or was she kind of like, I got an idea for this thing?

[Unnamed Speaker]

So it started with this. When Denise and I first started color creative, it was about trying to shout out to Denise Davis, trying to replicate the model of Awkward Black Girl where I was able to create something online. People got excited about it, it got networks attention and then it got a TV deal. And so for me, I was like, what if I could create these low budget pilots? And that's how I initially met Syreeta. And then through that, studios heard about us. So Sony, Columbia, they were like, hey, can we do a program like that? And you can find our. We can find first time screenwriters. And so she was one of five selected with the pitch that she had for what was then known as the Jungles. And the Jungles was going through gentrification. She, you know, spent a lot of time there in her youth. And for me, it was just an instant, like, you've done it again, girl. It's hilarious. It reminds me of those movies in the 90s, and it's about female friendship. It's fun, but it's just. It took a long time to get out the ground. But like, for you, when you read it, what was it? What stood out to you?

[Keke Palmer]

I feel the same exact way that you said. I immediately went back to, oh my gosh, this reminds me of the movies I grew up watching and loving. And I feel like it only comes from people like us. That's all. That's the bottom line. Truth is that our stories are always going to be the best coming from us because we know our culture inside out and out. And sometimes it does mean us coming together and doing it quickly in 20 days. Because that's what we got, y'all. And we got to work together. We got to figure it out. You know what I'm saying? Like, I remember thinking about it with Queen Latifah, the projects that I've done with her from the ground up. One of my favorite movies I ever did was Brotherly Love. And I feel the same way about one of them days. It's just, it's a thing that for me, growing up in the industry, I started out at nine years old. It wasn't until I got into my mid to late 20s where people like you existed, where the barriers had been broken down, of behind the scenes. And, like, now, not only are we in front of the camera doing it at people of color, but, like, they're also really writing the stories. And that's not to say that we didn't have people in the writer room before. Of course we did. But to also have the cachet for people, for Sony to say, issa, we trust you. People don't know how tough that is to get through. And it's taken years in our industry. And I just, you know, I continue to, like, yes, we moving on. Let's get. Let's get more and more and more, because that's what it really takes also to get the kind of movies that we want in front of the cameras is people like us telling the stories. And I love that you champion Serita in this way, because she really did grow up in that area. You know what I'm saying? Not, you know, like, she front of jungles. And that's what people don't know. That used to be the name, but then we had One of Them Days.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had to. We had to change it to not offend. One of Them Days is a good title. I'll give it to, you know, some battles you fight. It's a good title.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah. Again, that's when we got to go to the collaboration vibe, and it's like, okay, we collaborate. We're figuring it out together. You win some, I win some type vibe.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Exactly.

[Keke Palmer]

I'm very excited about One of Them Days. It's exciting. Again, I don't want to be biased, but I enjoyed the movie just as a person myself that want to go to the theaters and have fun. And I cannot wait till people see it. Issa, like, seriously, again.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So we were on this marketing meeting, and Josh Greenstein, who's the head of marketing at Sony, likened you to Lucille Ball. Have you heard that before? People have said that.

[Keke Palmer]

My mom would say, like, look. Cause my parents are old and vaudeville types and love all the theatrical stuff. So that's. Yeah, they used to say that kind of thing.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It makes so much sense. And I think what I'm most excited about, like, in seeing you in this role, is obviously, like, yeah, you are a leading lady. You've been a leading lady countless times. Everybody knows that you're hilarious. But I don't know that we've seen you in this way, you know, on the Big screen as a lead being your whole acting, hilarious, dramatic, beautiful self. And that's like, what's so exciting. And, like, you know, people know that you're a star, but this is like, she's a fucking star. And I can't wait to see what else comes from this, because they'll be. They already are. But they'll be knocking at your door for even more opportunities in the spaces that you deserve to play in. So I hope this is just the start of something greater and greater and greater. But I'm so, so excited to just have you.

[Keke Palmer]

Me, too. And, I mean, also, we were already. I'm just gonna say it right now because, you know, manifesting queen, manifesting generator. I mean, you producing the Heartbreakers movie with me and Angie Bassett, maybe that's what's gonna. You know, maybe that's what's gonna be coming next. You know, Once I say it, girl, it ends up happening, child.

[Unnamed Speaker]

It's true. Okay, listen, my mission. Mission.

[Keke Palmer]

I'm ready for this. I'm ready for this trust relationship between me and Hooray media.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Let's go.

[Keke Palmer]

I could talk to you all day, Issa, but I know you're a very bus. Just make sure you have some more V at my house for my holiday party this week.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No problem. And come to Somerville. We have reservations whenever you want to come.

[Keke Palmer]

Can you please comp me a little meal? Just give me a little comp. You know, I'm real speaking.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You're rich. But fine. Fine for you. Sure.

[Keke Palmer]

Before we go, we got to get into a little bit of a game. I do it with all my guests. This one is called Here for it or Not. Okay, I'm going to give you some questions, maybe some potential New Year's resolutions, and you tell me whether you're here for it or.

[Sharon Palmer]

Nah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Easy.

[Keke Palmer]

Cool. I love that we had to get a water sip before then. Okay, no more binge watching reality TV shows. Here for it or.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Nah, nah. That's all I do. That's my comfort zone. We talked about the dating shows. I watch every single dating show that exists, babe.

[Keke Palmer]

I'm done with JR On Ultimatum. No shade, no tea. I'm also done with Scottie. I need them to be eradicated. I'm sick of this shit.

[Unnamed Speaker]

All of them from Love Is Lying and Ultimatum. The men have disappointed me to the point where I'm not watching Love Is Line anymore. I'm not. I'm done. They've sold me too many dreams.

[Keke Palmer]

It's crazy. Okay, giving up caffeine here for it.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Or nah, nah, that's like, yeah, today at least you're a coffee.

[Keke Palmer]

It's bad for me too, girl. It's bad for me. I be drinking it, girl. And I thought I was always that person that was like, I've got natural energy until I turn 30, and then it all was done with same. It's crazy. Okay. Giving up alcohol here for it or not. I feel like these are because. What the hell?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, this is not. I'm sorry. I got V array. I'm out here, and I'm about to get into it tomorrow night. Like, no, sorry.

[Keke Palmer]

By the way, I loved when you told me what the via and via ray meant. It's like with ray, so I feel like I'm sipping my drink with Ray. Like, issa, very cute. Love what you did there. Thank you, Kylie. Okay. Setting better boundaries with friends here for it or. Nah.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah, I'm always here for setting clear boundaries. My friends understand, like, I don't have to do too much, but boundaries are good, period.

[Keke Palmer]

Less screen time here for it or.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Nah, I'm here for it. I really want to try that. I want to. Do you do social media screen cleanses? Because that's my shit.

[Keke Palmer]

I need to. But, girl, I'm on that phone morning, noon, and night. I want to be that person that gives those eyes a rest, but I haven't been.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I go through my breaks, and they're good for me.

[Keke Palmer]

Ugh. Well, maybe that needs to be my resolution. Okay. Waking up earlier here for it or not?

[Unnamed Speaker]

Always. Always here for waking up earlier. I'm an early riser.

[Keke Palmer]

Come on, boss. Yes. The early bird gets the worm, they say. Okay, and this is the last one. This is gonna be interesting to hear you say this because you are a Capricorn, and, you know, naturally, being ambitious runs into your blood. But also, you be like, I need to rest. So I'm interested in what you'll say for this one. Setting more goals here for it or.

[Unnamed Speaker]

No, definitely setting more goals. Because my goals. My goals are also about pulling back, because I do do too much. So it is like refining. That's. That's the year of. It's gonna be the year of refinement. The years of refinement, I should say.

[Keke Palmer]

Yes. And I wanna take a page out of that book with you too, girl. I got to reel it in in the best way.

[Unnamed Speaker]

I'll be tired thinking about your schedule, so I hope so.

[Keke Palmer]

You are amazing. I know I said this already, but I'll say it again and thank you for coming onto the show. Can't wait to see you next.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Thank you, Keke. See you soon.

[Keke Palmer]

See you soon. Issa is just so good at taking the raw material of life and transforming it into something that really stings and makes us laugh at the same time. I think my biggest takeaway is that fictionalizing your personal life isn't about hiding from the truth. It's about exploring it in a way that shows us a different side of what's already there. So get out there and write some stories and then ask yourself what those stories stories say about you. I'll see you next time. Cause you know it's your girl.

[Issa Rae]

Baby this is this is Kiki. Baby this is Kiki Palmer.

[Keke Palmer]

Yeah, enjoy. Baby this is Keke Palmer on the Wondery app, wherever you get your podcasts and now on YouTube where you can watch full episodes. Subscribe to the wondery channel on YouTube and don't miss any episodes. You can listen to Baby this is Keke Palmer early and ad free on Wondery. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Baby this is Keke Palmer is hosted and executive produced by me, Keke Palmer. Lucas Seagal is our post producer. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. Our original theme song was written and performed by me, Keke Palmer for TV Kiki. My producer is Sharon Palmer for Wondery. Our managing producer is Olivia Fonte. Our producer is Tristan McNeil. Senior producers are Lizzie Bassett and Candice Manriquez Ritt. Our executive producers are Dave Easton and Marshall Louis.