Cheating, Patriarchy, and Dating Hot Takes | Golden Hour

Summary

Bachelor Happy Hour: “Cheating, Patriarchy, and Dating Hot Takes | Golden Hour”

Date: March 13, 2026
Hosts: Charity Lawson & Rachel Recchia
(Note: Based on the transcript, the primary speakers in this episode are “Susan” and “Kathy” as guest hosts or featured voices.)

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Episode Overview

This episode, part of the “Golden Hour” series, takes a deep dive into tricky and nuanced relationship dynamics—addressing patriarchy, the complexities of cheating (physical and emotional), and the etiquette of post-breakup behavior. The hosts respond candidly to listener-submitted questions that put women's actions under the microscope and conclude with rapid-fire “hot takes” on modern dating norms. The tone is frank, humorous, and supportive, with both hosts drawing on personal anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How Does Patriarchy & Sexism Shape Dating and Relationships?

Segment starts: [06:02]

• Definition & History:

  • Kathy describes patriarchy as historically male-centric: “Patriarchy generally means the male being the head of the family, head of culture. So men make the rules.” [06:21]
  • Sexism is about exclusion or diminishment based on sex, e.g., women being perceived as inferior or less deserving of career opportunities.
  • The hosts track patriarchy's roots from monarchies to 1950s domestic culture, explaining how these attitudes persist in dating expectations today.
  • “You got a sick kid—who's staying home? The mommy. But that is changing. … It has changed dramatically, I would say, in the last 20 or 30 years. But I think it still exists.” [08:47]

• Personal Experiences:

  • Kathy notes her daughter shares parenting responsibilities equally with her husband. “[In] her house, they share the cooking, they share child care.” [10:20]
  • Susan admits to holding on to “traditional roles,” e.g., thinking men are better with tools: “It’s just—I'm better with a hammer than I am with the sewing machine because I do try. I'm a frustrated seamstress at heart.” [12:01]

• Quote:

  • “Screw the patriarchy, but maybe that's why I'm single.” – Kathy [11:06]

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2. Listener Question: Resentment, Cheating, and Stuck in a Loveless Marriage

Segment starts: [16:19]

Listener Scenario:

• Anonymous writer is married (5 years, together 13) with two small kids.
• Past issues with lying and cheating on both sides during dating.
• During a breakup, she dated someone at work and fell deeply for him but returned to her now-husband.
• Years later, she still has feelings for this ex (now also married), and both are unhappy in their marriages.
• Both she and her husband are in counseling, but she feels resentment and guilt, questioning if she married for the wrong reasons, and wonders: What should I do?

Hosts’ Take:

• Resentment as a Red Flag:

  • “Once you resent somebody, you can forgive them and you can try to make the marriage work. But deep down inside, I hear this woman, she resents him.” – Susan [19:20]

• Realistic Warning:

  • “The same damn thing could happen. If you both get divorced … and you finally get together, you find out he does the same damn thing.” – Susan [20:38]

• On Counseling:

  • Kathy suggests counseling is often a “required step” people take before finalizing a breakup and that it’s sometimes more about being able to say “I tried.” [21:47]

• Hard Advice:

  • “If you really want to make a go of the marriage, I would tell you: cut it off with him, change jobs, delete him from your phone ... there can never be three in a marriage.” – Kathy [23:26]

• Care for the Kids, But Don’t Stay Only for Them:

  • “Whatever you decide, please be cognizant of your children and what they’re going to go through. … In the same breath, don’t stay because of the kids.” [25:51]

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3. Listener Question: The Post-Breakup Birthday Check

Segment starts: [30:40]

Listener Scenario:

• Renee (65) dated a man for 11 months, never “feeling how I was supposed to.”
• On her birthday, she visits after his surgery; he gives her a check as a present.
• They break up that day; he demands gifts back, then gets angry after she deposits the check, calling her a “gold digger”.
• He had lied about being 64 (actually 69).
• She asks: “Was I in the wrong?”

Hosts’ Take:

• Gifts are Gifts:
  • “You gave me a gift, and it’s mine.” – Susan [35:19]
  • “You never take anything back.” – Susan [35:51]
  • Kathy shares her own story about refusing to return an ex’s expensive tennis racket.
• Moving On:
  • “Move on and go find yourself a nice guy. I don't care what age he is.” – Kathy [36:42]
  • “If you don’t want any part of him … donate the things, don’t give them back to him.” – Susan [38:11]

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4. Cheating: Physical vs. Emotional

Segment starts: [39:35]

• Emotional Affairs as Betrayal:
  • The hosts discuss whether having an “emotional relationship” outside a marriage is cheating.
  • “I don’t think it is the same as physical cheating, but I think the results often can be the same.” – Kathy [40:29]
  • The fallout of emotional disconnect is significant, sometimes ending relationships as surely as physical cheating.

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5. Dating & Relationship Hot Takes

Segment starts: [42:24]

Key Hot Takes Discussed:

• Who Should Pay on the First Date?

  • “If you know you don't want to see him again, I don't expect him to pay for the bill.” – Susan [42:49]
  • Both strongly agree.

• Texting Etiquette Post-Date:

  • “Women should feel free to text back right away if they've had a great date or you've met somebody.”
  • Both agree; Susan admits to sometimes texting too much.

• Who Plans the Date?:

  • Kathy dislikes the idea that women should have to plan most dates: “Men can plan great dates if they want to. … A man that will plan an exciting date … That is the man that I want right there.” [46:01]
  • Susan jokes that women have to plan if they want “to do stuff [they] want to do.”

• Old-School Courtesy is Still Attractive:

  • “A man should always open the car door.” – Susan [44:57]
  • Both appreciate men who exhibit “gentlemanly” behavior, such as walking on the street side or respecting servers.

• Should Women Downplay Their Strength?

  • Kathy describes advice she’s gotten: women should be “demure and diminutive in stature.” [47:12]
  • Both reject this: “I am who I am. I can't pretend to be anybody else. … And if you like me, that's great, and if you don't, I understand.” – Susan [48:00]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Resentment:

  • “Once you resent somebody … you never feel the same again.” – Susan [19:20]

• On Gifts After Breakups:

  • “You gave me a gift, and it’s mine.” – Susan [35:19]

• On Emotional Affairs:

  • “I don’t think [emotional affairs are] the same as physical cheating, but I think the results often can be the same.” – Kathy [40:29]

• On Gender Norms:

  • “Screw the patriarchy, but maybe that’s why I’m single.” – Kathy [11:06]
  • “Being a gentleman and being courteous is a turn on for women. And it never goes out of style.” – Kathy [46:39]

• On Authenticity:

  • “I am who I am. I can't pretend to be anybody else.” – Susan [48:00]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [06:02] – Patriarchy & sexism in dating explained
• [16:19] – Listener Question: Married but in love with someone else
• [19:12] – Deep dive on resentment and counseling
• [21:47] – Is counseling just a required step before leaving?
• [23:26] – The “there can never be three in a marriage” advice
• [25:51] – Advice: Don’t stay for the kids, but consider them
• [30:40] – Listener Question: Breakup, gifts, and the “gold digger” accusation
• [35:19] – “You gave me a gift, and it's mine” tennis racket story
• [39:35] – Emotional vs. Physical cheating
• [42:24] – Rapid-fire dating & relationship hot takes
• [44:57] – Gentlemanly behavior and old-school etiquette
• [47:12] – Should women downplay their strengths in dating?

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Conclusion

The hosts offer unvarnished, empathetic advice on tricky modern dating situations, challenging both patriarchal and sexist traditions while embracing authentic, respectful connection. Their candor—especially regarding post-breakup etiquette, the complexity of cheating, and what really matters in a relationship—provides wisdom and support for listeners navigating similar dilemmas.

If you’ve got your own burning question, the “Golden Hour” encourages submissions and promises more real talk in future episodes.

Transcript

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Real time updates are available on the iOS mobile app. Welcome back to Bachelor Happy Hours Golden Hour. Thanks so much for joining us today. We're, as always, we are so excited to be back. And Susan, you know, I'm gonna ask, how are you doing today?

[A]

I'm fabulous. I'm in a happy place and I'm really psyched about today. You know, it gives, it gives me pleasure to read from our fans. They quote, like everything we said on the podcast. There's people out there really paying attention, and I love it.

[B]

Yeah, I love the people. We never disagree. Susan, sometimes, sometimes you're wrong and you have to, you have to understand. No, I, I do this today. We love it. It's. What are we doing today again? What are we doing? What are we doing here today?

[A]

We have a lot of fan questions today. So today, not only are we answering more of the fan questions, but these ones are a bit different than the ones we usually get. Kathy. Okay, we're seeing more of the women being potentially in the wrong.

[B]

You know what? Wait a second.

[A]

Let's see about that.

[B]

I'm just going to say, Susan, you're going to go after me, or are you going to say they're not wrong?

[A]

I could be. Or I might say, maybe we shouldn't do those things.

[B]

I got to say, I think you and I are both equal opportunity offenders.

[A]

Offenders.

[B]

Offenders. Like we're both willing to stand up and say, oh, yeah, were wrong. I mean, it hasn't happened yet, but if it did,

[A]

I've admitted wrong this morning. It makes me sick to my stomach. And then I feel so badly. I want to forgive this right away because I certainly didn't mean it.

[B]

That is so funny you say that, because when I'M wrong. I. I am perfectly willing and able

[A]

to say, when have you ever been wrong?

[B]

Many times.

[A]

I've never witnessed it myself that you admitted to it anyhow.

[B]

Oh, that's not true. I've called you and apologized when I've done things wrong. I have.

[A]

Like what?

[B]

Well, I can't remember.

[A]

I don't recall this, but.

[B]

Okay, well, I'm sorry. You don't remember.

[A]

There you go. There's.

[B]

Here we go. We're gonna. We're just gonna get started with the question of the day, and I'm gonna start us off and see if you can remember that answer.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

Okay. How do you think. Oh, this is going to be a tough one, Susan, but here we go. How do you think the patriarchy and sexism makes its way into dating and relationships for straight people?

[A]

All right, Kathy, you go first on this one because I'm a little lost.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So I really am.

[B]

Patriarchy generally means the male being the head of the family, head of culture. So men make the rules. Okay, so. And sexism is. Can be the same. It's. Men are better, men are smarter, men earn more because they deserve to earn more. Women can't have jobs, can't be on television reporters because they get old, but men can pull up in there.

[A]

You get it.

[B]

So that sexism, you're denied something because of your sex or diminished because of your sex, or ruled determined that you are inferior in some way because a male is superior. So given all that, I think that it's culture. I think our culture, it. I mean, do we really have to need a history lesson here? But it goes back to. To monarchies, to.

[A]

It's always saying, makes its way into dating and relationships.

[B]

So. So let's think about this.

[A]

If you have two professionals. Is that what you're saying?

[B]

Oh, yeah. I'm saying the man is usually the one that asks the woman out in. And it's changing a little. Men typically ask the woman out first on a date. Men tend to control or try to control how the date's gonna go, how the relationship is gonna go, because they haven't dated me. Well, that's. We should have said. How do you think the patriarchy and sexism makes its way into dating a relationship? Except for Susan Knowles, but that was not the question of the day. So. But I do think. I do think it makes its way in because historically, historically, you know, the monarchy, it's always been king then.

[A]

But that's the point.

[B]

It brings it. It's. It's come through our Culture, it's been, you know, ironed into the fabric of our society, how we were raised.

[A]

Well, knowing that daddy did this and

[B]

daddy does, and in the 50s, every, you know, Donna Reed with the apron around her, her. It's changing.

[A]

It's a woman's place. Yes.

[B]

A woman's place is in the home, you know, and that was the way. So I think, though, that people, modern women today are saying, screw the patriarchy. They're. Forget it.

[A]

You know, a lot of times, women making more money than some of the men.

[B]

Yeah. But it's not just about that. It's that, you know, men determine the role. So historically, women have taken care of the children. You got a sick kid who's staying home, the mommy. So it. But that is changing. And in the glass ceiling. Women have tried for years to break the glass ceiling in terms of income, in terms of promotions, all those things. It has changed dramatically, I would say, in the last 20 or 30 years. But I think it still exists. I do. I think it still.

[A]

To answer the question, how do you think patriarchy and sexism makes its way into dating and relationships? How does it make its way in? From what we've learned, because of the history of.

[B]

That's what I think. I think it's just always been accepted. And I think. I think. Thank you for coming. How many times have we heard, Susan, boys will be boys? You know, a man can cheat. Yes, but a man can cheat because,

[A]

you know, the woman accept it more so than.

[B]

Well, not in my sphere, but if

[A]

a woman did, it's taboo.

[B]

That's patriarchy right there.

[A]

Oh, my God. How about, like a woman that had sex in high school or whatever, and your. Your reputation, but a guy, it's a notch on the belt.

[B]

That's patriarchy. Yes, that's sexism. You got it right there. So I think it makes its way into dating and relationships because it's been so. So it's. It's been ingrained in the fabric of our society. But I do think it's changing. My daughter. My daughter and her husband, they have one child right now, and they both have very big jobs. They share the cooking. They share child care when that child's sick. Well, that the patriarchy is.

[A]

Is that none of that? Right? Right.

[B]

It wasn't, you know, when I, like

[A]

you said, there's two professionals in the house,

[B]

it. But that's the point. Patriarchy suggests that the male is not only dominant, but more important. His decisions weigh more. They have more weight because a male made the decision. I say, screw the patriarchy, but maybe that's why I'm single.

[A]

Maybe the sexism part. I think they still should take out the trash.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I will say, Susan, you actually do. But. And it's not wrong, but I would say you buy into male dominant and female dominant accepted roles. That tradition. I should say traditional roles. When my husband was alive, I took out the trash. He took out. I love to mow the grass.

[A]

I like to mow the grass, too.

[B]

Yeah. So, yes, my husband more than I.

[A]

Tools and certain things that I just think men are better at than me.

[B]

That's only because, Susan, my dad taught me things. It's because you didn't learn it. It's someone told you you learned it subconsciously from a very young age that men have tools, tool belts, and men are better with hammers and women are better with a sewing machine. It's not true.

[A]

It's just I'm better with a hammer than I am with the sewing machine because I do try. I'm a frustrated seamstress at heart, but. All right, let's get. All right, it's time to answer some

[B]

of our fan questions. Here we go.

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[A]

Hi. Please keep this Anonymous I have been with my husband for 13 years, married for five through our dating years we had our ups and downs of lying and cheating on both ends. I had a hard time committing due to our issues. During one of the times we were off, I met a guy at work and dated him for about eight months. We broke up because I was 23 and he was going through a custody battle with his ex girlfriend and it all felt like too much to handle. To this day I regret it. He was the best and I loved him. He treated me like a princess and would do anything for me. I have often thought about him through the years and wondered if I made a mistake. This is getting juicy. I always went back partially because I did love him and because I loved his family.

[B]

I Wait, I have to interrupt. I have to interrupt. She went back with her husband.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I think that's where it is. She went back to her husband.

[A]

They were doing this when they were off in 2016 so they weren't together.

[B]

Yeah, okay.

[A]

And she started dating this guy. Okay. And I always went back partially because I did love him and because I loved his family. I lost my father young and his parents always treated me like their own. We got engaged shortly after my mother passed away. Since being married to my husband and having two kids 4 and 2 years old, I always think about this guy and still have feelings for him deep down. We still work together. He is married and has kids too and still feels the same way about me. He is not happy in his marriage and the last two years I haven't been either. We worked from home during COVID till about two and a half years ago. Today we go into the office a few days a week and we talk more. My marriage currently has been on the rocks. He doesn't show me affection. He works so much. I feel like a single parent. Doesn't do much around the house, doesn't engage in conversation, etc. I kept this all in for so long that I had a breaking point and now my husband and I are in counselor counseling. I have resentment towards him and just don't know what to do. My ex wants to get divorced. I know I would be happy with him without a doubt. I feel so guilty about all this and don't know what to do. Did I marry my husband for the wrong reasons? Any thoughts on what to do?

[B]

Oh Susan, take it. What do you think?

[A]

What?

[B]

A lot. It is a lot well, you're divorced, so I'm curious what you said.

[A]

She used the word resentment. And to me that's the biggest. Because you can't go back. You never feel the same again. Once you resent somebody, you can forgive them and you can try make the marriage work. But deep down inside, I hear this woman, she resents him. And she knows, she thinks that that other man. First of all, she says we both feel the same. So they're obviously chit chat. They're still hooking up? I think so you're both unhappy.

[B]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. They're hooking up? You mean they're having sex? You think they are?

[A]

Oh, that's. See, there you go again with that hooking up. I. I didn't. Yeah, I guess. I guess.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But they're still into each other was what I'm thinking. So what I'm hearing is they're both not happy in their mar. They both have something that they want about each other. However, that was the good part. Just dating him for the eight months and you know, he really wasn't yours yet. The same damn thing could happen if you both get divorced and your kids go through all the hell and you finally get together and you find out he does the same damn thing or

[B]

you know, you know. Okay, so did she, Before I jump in here, did. Do you think when she says, did I marry my husband for the wrong reasons, do you think she did?

[A]

I think she liked the family and feeling a part of it since she lost hers. Maybe. Maybe. But it's okay. You did it. And you have two beautiful kids and you're both going to love them forever. But be true to yourself because you won't be happy. And to stay miserable and unhappy, the other partner feels it too.

[B]

Okay, so I'm going to take a little bit different tact. Shocker. At this point, it doesn't matter if she married her husband for the wrong reasons. I have a philosophy, and I've told you this before, Susan. I think oftentimes when marriages, quote, unquote, go on the rocks, both parties go into counseling because they are, which they are, because they see it as a required step to.

[A]

Before you give up, before you.

[B]

And many of my friends did this and they admit to me later, I knew I would at the time, I thought I would work, but I really knew deep down I was going to counseling so that I could say post facto.

[A]

I tried.

[B]

I tried. We tried. I went to counseling. I think that's where this falls in. I think this falls into that category, I don't really care. Anonymous if you married your husband for the wrong reasons, as Susan said, you have two children. I don't think, I'm not reading that you have the impetus that you have the desire to really do the work to bring your marriage back from the rocks. Obviously, if you can do that, and I disagree with you, Susan, I think you can let go of resentment. I think it takes a lot of work. I don't know whether she's willing to do it. I think it's also very difficult to work in the workplace with the guy you have the hots for and you, and you're chit chatting with them. So you are, you are continuing the behavior that got you where you are. So if you really want my thought is when you say what should you do if you really want to make a go of the marriage? I would tell you cut it off with him, change jobs, delete him from your phone, change jobs, don't see him, don't talk to him. Because there can never be three in a marriage. And right now you have three in a marriage. And it's immaterial to me whether the other guy wants to divorce his wife. Immaterial. Kathy, if you want your marriage, if you want to give it a go, but I don't sense she does. But if you do, you got to take some hard steps here.

[A]

I'm a little confused when she says I have resentment towards him and just don't know what to do. My ex wants to get divorced.

[B]

The ex? The ex is the guy that she had the affair with, I believe. Oh yes. The guy that she had the affair with wants to divorce his wife. I think that's who she's referring to.

[A]

She says, I know I would be happy with him.

[B]

But she does. To your point, Susan, she doesn't know. With all due respect, Anonymous, I know you're in a tough spot and my heart goes out to you, but Susan's right. All you know is the infatuation, the great sex, the fabulous late night phone calls. You don't know what it's going to be with her kids, your kids, the conversations when he, he starts doing nothing around the house or whatever the issues are in your current marriage, Susan, and I can safely assure you you will have issues with the second guy. Is it going to be a fairy tale? No. You may love him and it could work out if you get together, but what should you do? It's up to you, sweetie. You either want to really work on your marriage that you have in which Case, don't just say I'm in counseling. You have to change jobs and delete this man from your life. Because as I just said, there is never three in a marriage.

[A]

And also, do yourself a favor. If this marriage isn't working, you don't jump into another man's arms. You got to be alone. You got to figure out. You don't go from, from the pot to the fire.

[B]

Well, I think, I think it can work. That's why I'm saying she might have. This might be the love story of the ages with this other guy. My father and stepmother had had the love story of the ages. When my father was divorced, he met my stepmom. They were married within a year and they had 40 years of bliss.

[A]

Then maybe she should go with it then.

[B]

Only she knows. Only she knows.

[A]

Anonymous thank you so much for sharing. Let us know what happens. No, I really, I, I, I understand the word resentment and I know where you're coming from. Yeah, I mean, and like Kathy said, she says it is possible. Maybe it is. I just never found that.

[B]

Yeah, well, and I didn't have to live, right, so.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And one thing I want to say before we move on. Anonymous, Whatever you decide, please be cognizant of your children and what they're going to go through. Because kids didn't ask to be born and they didn't ask for this Misha gas. So whatever it is, see if you can work it out.

[A]

Same breath, don't stay because of the kids.

[B]

Fair? Absolutely. Well, let us know. We want to thank you.

[A]

We wish you the best.

[B]

We really do. Let us know what happens, and we wish you all the best. Like many of you, I spend a lot of my day on my laptop, on my cell phone, and even sometimes watching tv. You know, it's really difficult to avoid blue light, but we all can do more to protect ourselves from its effects. Blue light damage doesn't just happen to your eyes. It impacts your skin, too. Nature Sunshine Marine Glow is the only collagen product clinically proven to protect against blue light while supporting both skin and eye health. You know, when I received this product, I was a little skeptical, but almost immediately my skin felt softer. I love the smell. So if you're skeptical about using beauty supplements, try one that actually has clinical proof behind it. Marine Glow defends against digital aging, shielding skin from blue light damage caused by screens. It also promotes hydrated radiant skin, which reduces fine lines, boosts elasticity, and supports hydration. Marine Glow protects eye health. The clinically studied ingredients safeguard vision from screen related stress. Protect your eyes and skin against harmful blue light effects with marine glow. Get 20% off your first order and free shipping by using checkout code. Happy [e-mail] that's happy [e-mail] this episode

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Everybody's on their journey and your journey is different to theirs.

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This Women's History Month the podcast, if you knew better with Amber Grimes spotlights for women who turn missteps into momentum and lessons into power. I think coming out of where I

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came from, I'm from the Bronx. I think I grew up really poor.

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I didn't know that then because I very much use my creativity to romanticize life and I'm like, my mom did a really good job of like, you step back and you're like, whoa. We.

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I don't know how we made it. So a lot of my life was,

[B]

like, built out of, like, survival to get to the next place. Like, my drive, my, like, tunnel vision of, like, I gotta be better, I gotta achieve this was off. The strengths of, like, I want to make a better life for us. If youf Knew Better brings real talk from women who've lived it, unpacking, career pivots, relationship lessons, and the mindset shifts that changed everything. Listen to if youf Knew Better with Amber grimes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Talking to your kids about the dangers of vaping can be hard. Getting them to listen to hot gossip is easy. So here's some drama you could share with your kid. Dude, did you hear about Cassie and Jake? No. But did you hear that vaping can cause irreversible lung damage and nicotine affects brain development?

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Nuh.

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You don't need to gossip if you want to have an open conversation about vaping. So if you want to get tips on when and how to talk to your kids, visit talkaboutvaping.org, brought to you by the American Lung association and the AD Council. Okay, so ready to move on to the next question? Here we go. The second question is from Renee. She's 65 years old. Hi, ladies. I need to know if I was in the wrong for this post breakup move. I was dating a guy for 11 months. He was very generous to me while dating. I, however, always struggled through this relationship. It was like I wasn't feeling how I was supposed to during the relationship. Unfortunately, we ended up breaking up. And here's how it sort of played out. He had shoulder surgery on my birthday, and I went over to take care of him. While I was there, he ended up giving me a check for my birthday gift. I won't get into the details, but one thing led to another and we ended up breaking up before I even got home that night. Once I did get home, he messaged me asking for things he gave me back. I sent them thinking he was a bit out of line, but wanted to just be done with it. I then decided to deposit the check that he had given me for my birthday. He came unglued, asking for money back, calling me a gold digger and many other horrible names. I did not return the money. Needless to say, I have no contact with him anymore. His true colors came out. Oh, I. I forgot to mention he had lied about his Age from the get go, saying he was 64 when he was really 69. I'm 65. What are your thoughts? Was I in the wrong? Susan, I'm going to let you handle this. First I just have to say nothing about his age matters. Who cares? 65, 69. So let's just leave that out of the mix. Cuz to me that doesn't matter.

[A]

Well, first of all, I'm wondering what she wasn't feeling like in the beginning when, yeah, she said something was missing. Obviously. He decides to get surgery on her birthday and she gives up that day to celebrate herself and goes and takes care of him.

[B]

That's what you do for the person you are in a relationship with.

[A]

And that's great. But he gives her a check. So he had no thought prior to what can I give her for the birthday. You write a check last minute because you're not prepared. You had nothing and now he wants it back. Go screw yourself.

[B]

No, Suzanne, what do you really think?

[A]

I think he's shit. That's what I think. And he lies.

[B]

Whoa, whoa. This is hitting close to home. And I hope that surgery hurt so. So with you.

[A]

Renee, you did not.

[B]

Here's what I think. Here's what I think, Susan. You and I both know people who have been given gifts early on in a relationship who'd return the gift. And you know, we both had different thoughts on it. I thought you did the right thing. Whatever. Here. This is a different situation. Renee, you were with this man for 11 months. Whatever you were feeling or not feeling, if you were giving it a go, you weren't giving it a go. I don't know. You didn't know how you were supposed to be feeling. All that said you stayed with him for 11 months. At least that's the way this reads. So you're with him 11 months. You did go over on your birthday. We don't know, Susan. Maybe he was in excruciating pain. Maybe he'd fallen, was in the hospital

[A]

coming the same day before surgery. You planned that.

[B]

Hold on. I'm just saying. I'm trying to give the guy some grace here. Maybe it was an emergency surgery. I don't know. Here's where I will go. Maybe you're right. Maybe he gave no thought. Okay, not great. But I believe it or not, I would absolutely have kept the birthday check and called it nursing hours fees. But secondly, I would not have sent back the things he had given me. When you give someone gifts and you've been dating, you don't give them And I will tell you, Susan, you don't know Another Kathy story that you don't know. You know the guy who shall remain nameless that I dated for 10 months? The guy that wanted me to move in with him?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He gave me an incredibly expensive tennis racket because he knew I had played tennis. He wanted to start playing again. He gave me this really, really nice racket. And when we broke up, he asked me for the racket back. And you know what I said? He did. And do you know what? What do you think I said?

[A]

Wise.

[B]

Why?

[A]

It's a gift. No. Why would I give it back to you? You gave it to me as a gift, and it's mine.

[B]

Oh, my God. I love you. It's exactly what I said to him. I said, I'm sorry. So.

[A]

And so you give it somebody else.

[B]

I mean, you know what? I gave it to my daughter. She plays with it. Because I. Because he and I were going to take back up tennis. But that's not the point. The point was he gave me a gift and I gave him some gifts. And. And when I broke up with him, which is what happened, I didn't say, by the way, I want back these pillows.

[A]

I gave you these. Never take anything back.

[B]

I would.

[A]

Some women, when they're asked that, they're so angry or upset, they don't want things that remind them of him.

[B]

Then. But don't give it back to him. Listen, I have a friend who. I have a friend who dated. And again, no names mentioned. Because you know, this person, she lives here. She dated a very wealthy guy. He bought her Louis Vuitton handbags, Chloe handbags. You know, very expensive designer stuff. Jewelry from Tiffany's, really nice things. I hope she sold it. She sold every bit of it and pocketed the money. She didn't give it back to him?

[A]

No.

[B]

So I think Renee, I don't care about his age.

[A]

Goes that low to give me it back. Obviously, he's hurting. He's angry.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're showing your true colors, just like Renee said.

[B]

Yep. So, Renee, here's Susan's. And my advice, move on and go find yourself a nice guy. I don't care what age he is. Would you agree, Susan?

[A]

Yes. Most definitely. Most definitely.

[B]

I don't. Wait, do you think.

[A]

But I'm upset about the birthday.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

How dare you write me a check.

[B]

But here's the thing. We started this whole podcast, this episode, talking about women potentially in the wrong. She's not in the wrong.

[A]

I don't think she is either.

[B]

I Don't think so. And I think.

[A]

Unless. Although she said they broke up before she even got to the house. Was it.

[B]

No, no, no, no. While they were there, they broke up at the house. One thing led to another while she was at the house taking care of him, and they broke up.

[A]

So he'd obviously think maybe she perhaps said, you're writing me a check for my birthday. Do you think that was part of. I mean, we're guessing.

[B]

I mean, I would say to you, does it matter? I mean, really, does it matter that whatever it was she did night.

[A]

Was it over the birthday check?

[B]

Maybe. But I'm saying, does it matter how or why they broke up? I'm saying I don't think that Renee is in the wrong here at all. And in fact, I would have kept all the things. So I think she's in the wrong for not keeping them, for sending them back on our other.

[A]

Like I. Like I said, you don't want any parts of him. So give it.

[B]

So give it donated. Don't give it to him.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then the other. The other. The other anonymous question. You know, we've talked about that. I don't think necessarily it's. I don't think it's our job to judge right and wrong as much as it is to have people reflect and see what is the best way in or out of the situation they're in

[A]

and how to handle it.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's what I think.

[A]

And keeping your grace, you know, you just. You respect yourself. You don't want to act out in a fit of whatever that moment is. Always just breathe. Always pause and think.

[B]

Always. Always forget the patriarchy. Always go out as a lady. That has nothing to do with male domination. Always, whatever you do, do it with grace.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Oh, God, yes. I mean, I've learned the hard way.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

I've been angry and I raise my voice. You know, I'm a guy, and I scream and holler and I start thinking about all the things that hurt me, and they all came out at once. I don't know if it. Maybe it was a trait that my dad would hold things in for, like, six months, and when we were in trouble, he'd bring up everything you did for the last six months. Oh, I'm gonna get beat.

[B]

That's when you go to your room and hide yourself under the bed. But I will say. I will say, I think there's one. Back to the our questions from today. I think there is one common denominator here, and that Is the emotional. What do I want to say? The. The emotional value, the emotional quotient of a relationship and. And the physical. In our first question, the emotional turmoil she's going through. She clearly has cheated, or I shouldn't say clearly, but it suggests that she is. When they were broken up, when she was separated, whatever. And I think that is a whole different kind of relationship.

[A]

Do you still think it's cheating if it was an emotional.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

Some people argue that point.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. I. I don't think it is the same as physical cheating, but I think the results often can be the same. I think you leave. Many people leave a relationship. They get into an emotional relationship with someone or they. Even if it's imagined, you know, and

[A]

so somebody listens to them and. Right.

[B]

So they. They sort of, maybe inadvertently, maybe consciously depart from the. From the other relationship they're in. So I think the. I think the fallout can be the same. I think the thought.

[A]

I know so many people that I've read or stories that the man gets caught cheating, but he never slept with them. But it was more of an emotional thing. And they kissed once. The wife still thinks that's cheating, but he was more relying on her and talking with her and things. It was an emotional affair.

[B]

But that's. But again, it suggests that he. That he and his partner are missing something. Are missing something in there. And that's what I think Renee was getting at with him, that there was a lot missing and she couldn't quite feel it in the first one in the anonymous question. I think there's more. I think there's physical and emotional something not being met in her marriage. And I think it's pretty far down the road. And as I said earlier in this episode, it is gonna take a lot of work to. If she wants to. So you know what?

[A]

He doesn't want to either. So.

[B]

So you know what I say? Don't cheat.

[A]

I hope that the other guy, if he's not happy either, that those two can get together. And it's a fairy tale love.

[B]

Oh, we all hope that even fairy tale. Oh, Susan, the fairy tale queen. All right, move along, move along. What's next here?

[A]

All right, before we end this episode, Kathy, we're gonna switch off giving you guys some of our dating and relationship hot takes.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

We'll give you our hot take and discuss it. And you're gonna start it off.

[B]

Oh, no, you are good, big girl. Go for it. What's Your first one,

[A]

The very first date. If, you know, you don't want to see him again, I don't expect him to pay for the bill. I, I would always 100% agree.

[B]

100. I, I actually agree with you totally,

[A]

100%, because, you know you're not going to. And the man that demands absolutely no way. I, I admire that.

[B]

Okay, what about. All right, I agree. All right, moving on. I got, I've got one for you. Okay, you agree or disagree? My hot take is women should feel free to text back right away if they've had a great date or you've met somebody.

[A]

Absolutely. And don't be afraid to be the first one.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's hard for me, but I, I, I think you should feel free to do it.

[A]

I just have to know when to not, you know, because I'm like, oh, yeah, it's my new friend blowing him up. It's like, oh, no, forget it. If he's not answering right away, there's a reason.

[B]

I love it. All right, I got another one. I want your opinion on this one. Men should always pick up the date at wherever. In other words, it shouldn't be, hey, I'd like to go out with you. Meet me at Joe's Bar at 6:00pm I, I think a man should always offer to pick a woman up. What do you think?

[A]

I do as well, except for certain circumstances. If you're just meeting, I prefer to drive myself, so I know I could leave.

[B]

Do you mean a first meeting? Yes. No, no, no, I agree with that. No, I'm saying in general, how do you.

[A]

Perhaps they work in the city and, you know, it'll be 8 o' clock by the time you could get out. There's moments that'll say, you want to just meet me there, babe.

[B]

Yes. But as a rule, as a rule,

[A]

a man should pick you up for you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You got another one?

[A]

When dating. Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think that a man should respect the people waiting on them.

[B]

Do you mean servers at a restaurant?

[A]

Yes, ma'. Am.

[B]

Oh, honey bunny. Whether men and women.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Well, oh, that goes.

[A]

There's a lot of people that will allow. That's a red flag all the way. Also, I think a man should open the car door always. Always. And if you're a perfect lady and you like him a lot, you reach over after he shuts your door and try to get his open for him.

[B]

Can I just set that for Fred?

[A]

And he noticed.

[B]

Can I tell you that Ned, my friend who lives out in California, who you're going to meet. Actually, he always opens. And we're not dating, but he always opens the car door for me. And I'm thinking that man was trained. Well. It means a lot to me. Even though we're not dating.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

It means. Okay, I got one more. I got one more.

[A]

I got one too. Go ahead.

[B]

All right. Women, I. I don't think this, but I've heard it said by men and women. How do you feel about men? Sorry. Women should plan most of the dates.

[A]

No, but we have to. If you want to do stuff that

[B]

you want to do.

[A]

Men aren't good at it. Some men.

[B]

I disagree. Ed is a cop out. Men can plan great dates if they want to. They. I think men just think women will do it so they don't spend the time. To me, a man that will plan an exciting date. And I don't mean that.

[A]

Makes me thrilled.

[B]

Yeah. Not, you know, not a jet to Paris for dinner. I don't mean that. I mean just a guy surprise. Like it doesn't have be expensive. Oh, my God. That is the man that I want right there. Who agree with you that I also

[A]

think a man should always walk on the street side and keep a woman on the inside.

[B]

Always. To protect people.

[A]

Forget about that.

[B]

Always. Always. You know, one thing we're. You and I are both saying, even though we're a certain age, being a gentleman and being courteous is a turn on for women. And it never goes out of style.

[A]

Never ever. So, yes, men are hearing that.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, really, there's some things that just never, ever go out of style. And, and that's. I'm trying to think if I have any other ones. I had the mention I was open doors, but you had that one as well. Oh, one more. I know we got to go, but just real quickly.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Women, I don't agree with this, but. But I've heard and people have criticized me for it. Women in the dating world should not show their strength, both physically, financially. They should be demure and diminutive in stature. They should make themselves be small, whether it's financially, physically, sexually, all of it.

[A]

What do you think I am not that girl. I don't think I could follow those rules. I have read that actually like dating advice. And you're dating like, I don't think the first night you got to show power. But yeah, I am who I am. I can't pretend to be anybody else. So I need to be who I am. And if you like me, that's great. And if you don't. I understand.

[B]

Yeah. I find that a lot of men who I'm friends with say, you know, kathy, you're just so strong.

[A]

But that's what they said to me.

[B]

You know what C.K. said to me the other day? Hello, C.K. he said, Kathy, if men would just take the time to get to know you, they would see what a terrific woman you are. And I thought it was a lovely compliment, but I thought, yeah, but they don't take the time. So, you know, I guess I. I guess I need to be diminutive and demure. The two D's. I don't know. Oh, I can tell you how. I can tell you how. Wear a short skirt and put tape over my mouth.

[A]

Have a lot of food. Keep eating.

[B]

On that happy note, we're done here. That is gonna do it. This was fun for today's episode. This was a fun episode. And thank you to everyone for. For listening. We had so much fun. We hope that you enjoyed hearing our hot takes and our advice to our listeners.

[A]

Keep those questions coming, because without them, we'd have to make stuff up, and

[B]

we could do that, too.

[A]

And you know how to do it. Thank you so much for everybody listening. Just go to bachelornation.com golden hour and submit those questions. That's what we're here for.

[B]

I hope we get some great comments on this episode and some more questions. Okay. Listen to Bachelor Happy Hours golden hour on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Until next time, have a great week.

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.