Cindy: Finding Home and Vacation in Mel | Happy Hour

Summary

Bachelor Happy Hour – "Cindy: Finding Home and Vacation in Mel"

October 17, 2025 | Hosted by Jonathan and Asma Khalid with guest Cindy Kohlers

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Main Theme and Overview

This episode of Bachelor Happy Hour features Cindy Kohlers, a fan-favorite from Mel’s season of the Golden Bachelor. Subbing in for regular hosts Joe Amabile and Serena Pitt, Jonathan and Asma Khalid dive deep with Cindy into her Bachelor journey, focusing on the pivotal events of Episode 5, her unique approach to dating later in life, and the emotional complexities of forming relationships on reality TV. The conversation highlights Cindy's vulnerability, authenticity, and wisdom, culminating in her heartfelt insights about home, family, friendship, and love.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Cindy’s Origin Story: Saying Yes and Entering "The Bachelor"

[05:03]

• Cindy's Background:
  • Austin, Texas native, biomedical engineer turned medical aesthetics professional.
  • Divorced for seven years, mother of grown children.
• How She Joined the Show:
  • Driven by her daughter Caroline signing her up.
  • "In January of this year, I made a deal with the universe, with God, to just say yes to the opportunities in front of me...and the memories that's brought me, I just encourage everyone to start their lifetime of saying yes." (Cindy, 05:03)
• Reluctance and Coincidences:
  • She nearly declined due to conflicting dates (daughter’s wedding) but ultimately embraced the unexpected.

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2. Life Before the Bachelor: The Realities of Dating Later in Life

[07:38] – [09:14]

• Vast Dating Experience:
  • Cindy jokes: "I've tallied, like, 1.2 million men that I've dated, so I wasn't scared of dating." (07:42)
• What She Looks For:
  • Not overly picky, but wants a partner integrated into every facet of life, especially committed to family.
  • Expresses "all the stars have to align" for true compatibility.
• Jonathan relates: Expresses challenges in finding a meaningful connection post-breakup.

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3. Family & Friends’ Reactions

[09:37] – [10:37]

• Supportive, But Protective:
  • Her kids’ only request: “Just don't kiss him.”
  • Cindy: "Guys, I'm not looking for a roommate...If I don't want to kiss him, then what am I doing there?" (09:48)
• Courage and Vulnerability:
  • Friends say they could never put themselves out there as she has.
  • Cindy determined to be “vulnerable, authentic...just show my real self.”

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4. Preparing for the Bachelor Mansion

[10:37] – [11:47]

• No Special Prep:
  • With wedding chaos, Cindy focused more on "preparing her heart…more than preparing gowns."
• Fashion Praise: Asma: “You killed it on the gowns, so I think you did both of them really well.” (11:18)

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5. Night One: First Impressions and Instant Bonds

[12:08] – [16:19]

• Limo Nerves:
  • First out of the limo: “I was terrified, incredibly nervous…Mel just draws you in. He’s got laser beams for eyes and he’s so engaging and charming and handsome.” (13:16)
• Making Friends:
  • "I found 22 of them." Immediate bonds with women like Mylene, Tracy, Nicole.
  • Robin: “If you want to find a picture of me, I’m next to Robin.” (15:52)

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6. Episode 5 Focus: The Pressure of Getting a One-on-One

[22:48] – [25:32]

• Emotional Stakes:
  • Intimate conversation with Carol about both not having had a one-on-one.
  • "Going to...a one-on-one date is essential not just for Mel to know us, but for us to know if we want to bring somebody into our family’s lives." (24:36)
• Friendship Over Competition: Cindy supports Carol, highlighting the depth of friendships beyond the show’s competitive premise.

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7. The Reality of Limited Time & Off-Screen Connections

[25:38] – [28:32]

• Minimal Time with Mel:
  • “Your collective time with him at this point is hours...How am I going to bring—I’ve met him hours.” (Jonathan, 25:32)
• Deep But Under-Aired Connection:
  • Cindy: "Our relationship is absolutely effortless…but my conversations with him ended up on the editing room floor." (26:12)

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8. Mel’s Communication Style: Reading Between the Lines

[27:14] – [28:24]

• Stoic & Non-verbal:
  • Mel not one for direct reassurance or comparisons. Cindy is understanding: “As long as I was there, it meant I was interested. If he still kept me along and meant he was interested.” (28:03)

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9. Pool Party Drama: Chemistry vs. Respect

[28:43] – [31:12]

• Nicole and Mel’s Chemistry:
  • Cindy reflects on discomfort watching another contestant’s forwardness.
  • Highlights bigger question: “Is this the type of man...my man...would allow this access to him under these circumstances?” (30:47)
• Grace and Perspective:
  • Found acceptance: "I just found a moment of grace for him and for Nicole too...They have chemistry together. There’s no doubt about it.” (30:50)

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10. Cindy’s One-on-One Date with Mel

[37:06] – [41:51]

• Texas Pride and Cowboy Boots:
  • Cindy wore boots, embraced who she is, and Mel found it “sexy and cute.”
• Life Stories Shared:
  • On realizing dreams didn’t go as planned, Cindy shared vulnerably about divorce and wanting a stable family.
  • "For me to be that vulnerable, I expected a little bit more back from him, and if he doesn't want to share with me perhaps about his history, maybe give me more reassurance as to where I am in his world...and I didn't get...I really, I honestly didn't get either.” (39:04)
• Mel’s Non-Verbal Gestures:
  • He braved a horse ride (despite allergies and discomfort) but still wasn’t emotionally open.
  • “A kiss cannot replace the vulnerability that you need in a relationship.” (41:19)

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11. The Leap of Faith and The Need for Reciprocity

[41:59] – [44:12]

• **Every day is “a leap of faith” giving up comfort and routine for a chance with Mel.
• Cindy admits repeatedly giving Mel “grace” for his reticence, but that she’s also making hard decisions.

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12. Rose Ceremony & Preparing for Hometowns

[44:31] – [47:07]

• Receiving the First Rose:
  • Noted by Asma that Mel called Cindy’s name first at rose ceremonies multiple times.
• Introducing Mel to Family:
  • For Cindy, her family is her “mirror” — she needs their input.
  • "It's a big step. This is, it’s a big step to—my kids haven't met a new man in years." (46:33)

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13. Mel’s “Type” and What He’s Looking For

[47:07] – [48:05]

• Still Figuring It Out:
  • Cindy: “Mel said from the beginning he doesn't really know either and that this process of going through the Golden Bachelor is his way of finding out and trying on different types of personalities and lifestyles.” (47:07)

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14. Defining "Home and Vacation in the Same Skin"

[48:22] – [49:47]

• Most Memorable Quote:
  • “He feels like a combination of home and vacation all wrapped up in the same skin.” (48:22)
• Importance of Feeling Grounded Amid Fantasy:
  • "You have to find a home in it, too. And to maybe even...in some ways have that feeling of home feel like a vacation." (49:31)

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15. Previewing Hometowns & The Ultimate Test

[50:06] – [51:40]

• What to Expect:
  • “Chemistry continues” during Mel’s visit to Austin.
  • “It’s super important that my family falls in love with him too. My family just can’t like him. How would that work? That doesn’t work.” (50:56)
  • Recognizes the stakes: her family must give their blessing for things to proceed.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is my year of saying yes...I just encourage everyone to start their lifetime of saying yes.”
  — Cindy, [05:03]

• “I've tallied, like, 1.2 million men that I've dated, so I wasn't scared of dating.”
  — Cindy, [07:42]

• "If I don't want to kiss him, then what am I doing there?"
  — Cindy, [09:57]

• “Our relationship is absolutely effortless...once you get into the moment, it’s great.”
  — Cindy, [13:17]

• "He feels like a combination of home and vacation all wrapped up in the same skin."
  — Cindy, [48:22]

• “A kiss cannot replace the vulnerability that you need in a relationship.”
  — Cindy, [41:19]

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Episode Timeline and Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |----------------------------------|-------------| | Cindy’s background & saying yes | 05:03–06:54 | | Dating life after divorce | 07:38–09:14 | | Family/friends’ reactions | 09:37–10:37 | | Preparing for Bachelor | 10:37–11:47 | | Night one & making friends | 12:08–16:19 | | Episode 5, one-on-one pressure | 22:48–25:32 | | Limited time with Mel | 25:38–28:32 | | Mel’s communication style | 27:14–28:24 | | Pool party drama | 28:43–31:12 | | Cindy’s one-on-one date | 37:06–41:51 | | Reciprocity/leap of faith | 41:59–44:12 | | Rose ceremony & family | 44:31–47:07 | | Mel’s type/unpacking feelings | 47:07–48:05 | | Home & vacation quote | 48:22–49:47 | | Hometowns preview | 50:06–51:40 |

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains the upbeat and supportive tone typical of Bachelor Nation podcasts: playful banter, camaraderie among “nerds” and “badasses,” with a sincere focus on vulnerability, family, and self-reflection. Cindy’s voice is authentic, witty, and warm; Jonathan and Asma balance humor with thoughtful questions.

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Conclusion

This episode gives listeners a heartfelt portrait of Cindy: a woman making bold choices, committed to vulnerability for herself, her family, and in her pursuit of love on the Golden Bachelor. Key takeaways include the importance of saying yes to new opportunities, forming real friendships in unlikely places, requiring true engagement and openness in relationships, and, ultimately, never settling for less than finding “home and vacation in the same skin.” The episode closes with anticipation of the all-important hometown visits — where family approval and deeper connections will determine what happens next for Cindy and Mel.

Transcript

[Cindy Kohlers]

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[Asma Khalid]

So is the world.

[Cindy Kohlers]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Tristan Redman in London, and this is the global story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jonathan]

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to Basher Happy Hour. You're here with me and Joan Vasos. We're filling in for Joan Serena this week and we are here with the beautiful Cindy Kohlers.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Hello.

[Asma Khalid]

I am so excited to have you on that. We get to interview you of all weeks that Joe and Serena are gone. They're like, gone on this week. And I have. You've been like my soulmate through this whole journey because you are a fellow nerd. I was a computer science major in college and wrote code and you were a biomedical engineer. And then we both kind of retired when we raised our kids. So I just feel like we have so much in common and I've been dying to talk to you.

[Cindy Kohlers]

I love that. Geeks forever.

[Asma Khalid]

Yes.

[Jonathan]

Can't wait. You guys are my mom. My mom's a double major in bio and chem, so I'm very familiar with it all.

[Asma Khalid]

We're going to love her. I can't wait to meet her.

[Cindy Kohlers]

We love her.

[Asma Khalid]

We love happen one day.

[Cindy Kohlers]

She. She could be part of our club.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah, that's it.

[Jonathan]

That's good. She would love it. She would eat it up.

[Asma Khalid]

Nerds rule the world. So that's the truth.

[Jonathan]

I agree.

[Asma Khalid]

Okay, so I think we should probably just start by getting to know you a little bit and, like, maybe just tell the audience, like, where you're from, kind of what you do and how you ended up on the Bachelor, because that's always a freaky story, right?

[Cindy Kohlers]

So, yeah, I'm Cindy. I live here in Austin, Texas. Literally, this is. This is my place. There is a river right there. I've lived here for 30 years and raised my kids here. I'm a biomedical engineer who got into medical aesthetics after I trained. After I trained my kids, after I grew my kids up. And I've been divorced seven years, and I think my kids just really were happy and anxious for me to find love. So in April of this year, my youngest daughter decided to sign me up for the show and to take it back a little bit further. In January of this year, I made a deal with the universe, with God, to just say yes to the opportunities in front of me. You know, we have a tendency, especially as you get busy, like, oh, you know, it's not a good time for me. Let's. Let's do it next time or I'll circle back. And. And I just kept putting off life. And just in January, I just decided it's time just to say yes. So this is my year of saying yes. And the opportunities that has brought me and the joy and happiness and the memories that's brought me, I just encourage everyone to start their lifetime of saying yes. So Caroline, my little one, signed me up for the show, and it was just kind of like, yes, of course I'll do it. And it's never that easy because you go through all the interview process, and I thought, there's no, Listen, there's no way they're going to pick this girl from Austin, Texas. What am I going to do on the show? And we get a little deeper, and I'm like, well, the taping seems to be a problem for us. My middle daughter is getting married. I can't change that. And the taping dates don't work out. I can't go on the show. There was just a million reasons that the universe should have said no to this. Yeah.

[Asma Khalid]

And I had the same story. I had the exact same thing. I, like, just wasn't ready to date, wasn't doing anything to make my life better, was just kind of in, you know, just go along with life and let it just happen around you. And I started saying, like, I gotta do things that scare me. Like, I need to go to weddings as a single person, and I need to just do the things that make me uncomfortable. And one of them was doing the show. And I did the same thing also. Dates didn't work out. My daughter had a baby eight days before I was supposed to be on the show, and I was like, if anything happens and she's late or something happens, like, with the baby, I won't be able to go on the show, but the universe just aligned. Sounds like it would.

[Jonathan]

Was this Bachelor or Bachelorette for you, Joan?

[Asma Khalid]

This is Golden Bachelor. Yeah.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Wow.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah. So when I was a. Like, I was you, I was a contestant on the show. Yeah, right.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Yeah. Two days after filming, I left for Italy for the wedding.

[Asma Khalid]

Wow.

[Cindy Kohlers]

So it was. It was, like, back to back. And you just. You just have to say this. Unlike you, I was dating a lot. I think I've. I've tallied, like, 1.2 million men that I've dated, so I wasn't scared of dating.

[Jonathan]

What was missing beforehand? Like, why. Why are all these people but not a single person? Because I'm in a similar boat right now. I'm finally back out on the market, dating around, and I'm, like, trying to figure out what it is that I want and don't want. What is it that was, like, not letting you find that person?

[Cindy Kohlers]

You know, I'm. Everybody's picky. Listen, we. We have our things. I'm not. I'm not that picky, to be honest. But there was always one thing or another. Like, I dated a great man, just probably my most recent relationship, and he just wanted a little compartment of his life to share with me, and I kind of want the whole thing. I want. I want the family. I want to be involved with his career. I want to, you know, be there on a Tuesday as well as on the Saturday and for the big events. And I have other men who may have a different viewpoint of what family looks like. And my family is super important to me, and I've promised them. I don't want to bring anyone in to our family that will mess up the magic that we have. So there's always been, you know, one. Geography is not a problem. I can move. I live here by myself. All my kids have grown and flown the nest, so moving has not been a problem. But if you're not in the same city, it's hard to get to know each other. And Jonathan, you might have experienced that, too. It's. All the stars have to align.

[Jonathan]

Yep. Couldn't agree more. Cool.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Jonathan]

Thank you. And then off of that as well. So obviously, dating pre show didn't go as planned, but when you found out that you were going on the show, how did your, like, friends and Family react. I know you said your daughter signed you up. Was she stoked? Were, like, the grandkids or just kids in general? Like, were they excited for you?

[Asma Khalid]

Like, what are your friends say? I think it was so much fun, like, telling my group of friends that I was doing this. What? Were they excited for you? What did they think? Were your kids like, oh, my God, mom, this is gonna be so embarrassing?

[Cindy Kohlers]

Oh, they were like, don't. Just don't kiss him. And I was like, like, guys, I'm not looking for a roommate.

[Asma Khalid]

I might have to kiss him.

[Cindy Kohlers]

I kind of want to kiss him. If I don't want to kiss him, then what am I doing there?

[Asma Khalid]

It's a problem.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Like, is that really what you want for me? But my kids were super supportive, and again, they want me to find love. They want me to be happy. And my friends do, too. But my friends were like, well, of course that's what you're doing.

[Asma Khalid]

You just.

[Cindy Kohlers]

I. I'm just a bold person, and I end up finding myself in crazy circ circumstances. And most of them said they could never do it. That putting yourself out there this way. And I would determine to be vulnerable, to be authentic, to just show my real self on this show. It's hard. And a lot of people would. Would be uncomfortable with that.

[Jonathan]

Yeah, for sure. So how did you prepare for it then? Like, how did you get ready to come on here and just put yourself out there like that?

[Cindy Kohlers]

Prepare for it? What are you talking about? I had a wedding.

[Jonathan]

I was.

[Cindy Kohlers]

I was elbow deep in, like, what flower arrangements were doing. And so I had two sets of suitcases. I had my Italy suitcase for the wedding, and I had my. My bachelor. And honestly, you just let go at that moment. And it was more important for me to prepare my heart more than preparing for my gowns and what I was going to wear and just, you know, deciding to jump in.

[Jonathan]

Yeah, yeah, love.

[Asma Khalid]

You killed it on the gowns, so I think you did both of them really well.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Thank you. Coming from an icon. Thank you.

[Asma Khalid]

I know. I'm telling you, you had beautiful. Oh, your clothes were all beautiful. I loved every dress. Plus, you look really good in clothes, so that does help, obviously. So let's talk about night one. Let's just kind of jump in. Like, we're talking about evening gowns. I know both Jonathan and I have done it. I don't think Jonathan has a shy bone in his body, so I'm not going to even, like, say, were you nervous? So let you and I talk about being nerv this. Because I know Jonathan wasn't. Well, first of all, I came out like, I was nervous.

[Jonathan]

I came.

[Asma Khalid]

You hardly had any clothes on.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Yeah, I know. That is.

[Jonathan]

I'm confident in my body. I don't know if I'm confident in my. My night. One walk ups. That's okay. Two different things.

[Asma Khalid]

All right, well, now your old head. You're old, your experience.

[Jonathan]

Now I do it again.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Audible Advertiser]

Now.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah. Second time.

[Cindy Kohlers]

If we only knew, right? If we only knew.

[Asma Khalid]

We knew.

[Jonathan]

I know.

[Asma Khalid]

But that first time getting out of that limo, first of all, like, were you terrified? Like, how was it getting out of the limo? And what did you think of Mel when you first saw him?

[Cindy Kohlers]

Oh, my gosh. So you guys can both relate. Like, they don't tell you where you are in the lineup.

[Kiskali Breast Cancer Advocate]

So we.

[Cindy Kohlers]

We load up, we're in the limo and we're driving to the mansion. And they're like, well, so Cindy, you'll be the first one out of the limo.

[Asma Khalid]

Oh, no.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Yeah. And my entire limo group was like, thank God it's not us.

[Asma Khalid]

I had tried to rock the last one.

[Cindy Kohlers]

I don't know which is worse.

[Jonathan]

You had to wait first is 100, the best one. Because there's nothing to judge you on. And they're very excited to start the night.

[Cindy Kohlers]

I wish I had that perspective. I did not have that perspective. I was terrified, incredibly nervous. And then I thought, so you drive up and you can't really see Mel through the window. It's blackened out. But I see his hair and I see his shirt and I notice he's taller. He has a physical presence about.

[Jonathan]

He's a big dude.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Yeah, that I really. By the way, it's on my checklist. Check, check. And so you're excited about it and then you open the door and honestly, Mel just draws you in. He's got laser beams for eyes and he's so engaging and charming and handsome. So, you know, once you get into the moment, it's. It's. It is great. It is.

[Asma Khalid]

Takes you the first 15 seconds and then you're like, okay, I could do this.

[Jonathan]

Did you ignore the 30 cameras that are like right behind you as you walk up in your face? At first, because that's all I could pay attention to.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Oh, I think I blacked out. If you don't ignore them, you could have never gotten into a bikini and rolled around on the surf like we did.

[Asma Khalid]

Seriously. Oh, I love that date.

[Cindy Kohlers]

That was you just. Literally, it was like, you just. But you have to, like, you just have I committed from the first step. The first step onto the mansion driveway that I'm here for, for Mel and for me and for. For the women, which was a big surprise for me. But you're here for the experience, and you've got to let go of who's watching and what they're going to say about you.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah, you got to go all in. So you just made. You just made a funny comment. You said, I didn't know I was here for the women. That was a surprise. So you walk in, you were like.

[Cindy Kohlers]

I thought y' all were faking it. Y' all were all faking it on your shows.

[Jonathan]

No.

[Asma Khalid]

Isn't it crazy? No.

[Jonathan]

It's the friendship that makes the entire difference to the show.

[Asma Khalid]

It's crazy. So you were the first one in there. So you got to welcome people kind of coming in. Who did you kind of bond with on night one? Did you find your friend on the first night?

[Cindy Kohlers]

Yes, I found 22 of them.

[Asma Khalid]

22?

[Cindy Kohlers]

22 of them. Honestly. Mylene was in my limo, super close. Tracy, who let. Tracy and Lisa went home the first day. Carla. I gravitated immediately to Nicole. She and I just sat down and had a great conversation. And then Robin, once Robin and I met, we were magnetized. We were inseparable. And just wanted to sit on her lap. Just, where's Robin? If you want to find a picture of me, I'm next to Robin. That's how you have to look for it. And there's also. Jerry was so sweet. I didn't get to know her the first. First night. Or Carol or Carrie. Those were. They're all great. Those were three that snuck up on me. And Carol, in the end, was such a surprise to me. Like, I. Yeah, I love her, but everybody flocked to her the first night, so I didn't have my chance to. To get to know her as well.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Cindy Kohlers]

So there's a long list of them.

[Asma Khalid]

I know. And Jerry lives in my hometown. She lives, like, right down the road from me. I haven't met her yet, which is crazy. I don't. Yeah. She lives in Rockville, Maryland. My dress is Rockville, Maryland. I mean, we are, like, neighbors. So I have to figure out how to get a hold of her and, like, meet up and have dinner or something.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Yeah, we will figure that out. I have a. That should not be a problem. And you two will be thick as thieves. She is. She is a jab. She's a gentle soul.

[Asma Khalid]

It's so funny. And I'm going to be in Austin In a couple weeks I'm going to look you up.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Oh yes, for sure. Yeah, I can't wait.

[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

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[Audible Advertiser]

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[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

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[Kiskali Breast Cancer Advocate]

Time I know many strong women who are breast cancer patients, so as you might imagine, it's a topic especially near and dear to my heart. Watching them suffer through the challenges of their experiences made me realize I wanted to help other women not only become more comfortable talking about breast health, but also help them learn about breast cancer treatments that may be available to them that's why I want to tell you about Kiskali. Kiskali ribociclib 200 milligram tablets are taken with an aromatase inhibitor. It's for adults with HR positive, HER2 negative stage 2 or 3 early breast cancer with a high risk of recurrence and it can help reduce the risk of cancer coming back. In a clinical study at three years, 91% of people taking Kiskali plus an aromatase inhibitor were cancer free versus 88% taking an aromatase inhibitor alone. Individual results may vary. Kiskali may cause serious skin reactions, liver problems and low white blood cell counts that may result in serious infections. Life threatening lung problems and abnormal heartbeats can occur. Your doctor should test your heart and blood before and during treatment. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening cough, chest pain or dizziness before taking Qasqali. Tell your doctor all your medical conditions, medicines you take and if you're breastfeeding, pregnant or planning to be as it can harm an unborn baby. Common side effects include nausea, headache and tiredness. Defense is important on and off the ice and Kiskali is all about doing more to help protect your tomorrow. So find out how you can too. Visit kiskali.com that's K-I S Q A L I.com to learn more and ask your doctor if Kiskali is right for you.

[Asma Khalid]

Okay, so let's so I love talking about like the first night in the mansion and I could talk about probably every episode with you because there's things that like I would love to rehash but I'd really like to get into the episode that we're talking about which is episode five and that was a really big one for, for you. And first of all, I loved the conversation in the beginning of this episode that you were having with Carol because neither one of you had had a one on one date yet and you both stakes were really high. Like this was probably the most important day that you had because this like kind of determines whether you're going to go on or not. Possibly because it's hard to move on if you haven't had a one on one date. Right? So I, I love the conversation though because Carol was feeling very not confident and she was expressing that to you and you were saying no, yours was just kind of a slow burn. But now you guys are in like hyper mode and you know, you could certainly get a, you could certainly get the one on one date and you were just pumping her up and that's just like so kind of you, because obviously, like, this is like an important day for you also. So I just want to say, first of all, I love that you did that and that shows how like, important the relationships in the house really become. So you.

[Jonathan]

Yeah, it was a great moment and we were talking about it beforehand too and I was like, I know I went through something similar when I was going through the process where I'm very aware of everybody around me almost before I am of myself. And it seemed like when you got that one on one rather than just completely being like, yes, I got it, I did that. Like you're, you got emotional, I think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong because you know, this girl that you care for in Carol didn't get the chance to get this and you knew how much it meant to her. But also you want to celebrate yourself at the same time. And watching you kind of navigate through that, that feeling in those pro, like it was a really fun and just like sweet moment to watch as you like kind of reassured her as you also celebrated yourself.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Yeah, it's both sides of it. You know, you, you have a group of women who are left. You've got Cheryl who got the first one on one with Mel and clearly their relationship has grown. He's kept her around and he wants to have more time with her. You've got Debbie who had her one on one and she's still around. You've got pegs. So it's, it's like a litany if you don't have that one on one. You know, I did, I did get a rose and Carol did get a rose, but it didn't come with extra time. Like Nicole's dead, so that time is what's important. And yeah, Carol and I are very aligned in how we see our family and we don't introduce people to our family often. And so going to, having a one on one date is essential not just for Mel to know us, but for us to help know if we want to bring somebody into our family's lives.

[Jonathan]

You know, and your collective time with him at this point is hours. Like, you're like, how am I going to bring. I've met him hours.

[Asma Khalid]

You're like, I know, I talked to him for 42 minutes. Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. So you've, you said many of your interviews that you felt like you were developing strong feelings for him, but we saw very little of your interaction with him, really. Very little. And so I'm kind of wondering, like how did you really feel about your relationship? Did you really feel like you were taking the steps to get to a good place? Did you feel pretty confident?

[Cindy Kohlers]

Mel and I would start a conversation and within a breath would be covering 10 topics?

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Our relationship is absolutely effortless. When he was named as Golden Bachelor, my oldest daughter was the first one to discover it and she texted me immediately and called me and said, mom, I think they picked him for you.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Mel is uniquely designed to be in a relationship with me and so I was not surprised with this and I leaned into it and early on, you know, I knew enough about him and I needed to explore the chemistry. Check, check. Now we're looking at compatibility. It's going very well. But yeah, my conversations with him ended up on the editing room floor. And it's fine, that happens. It's a short show. But there's no question that he and I are aligned and, and had easy, effortless, deep conversations even. Yeah, even when we started talking about what books are you reading? Imagine how much ground you'd have to cover in order to get to a what books do you read? Conversation.

[Jonathan]

Yeah, you address some of my concerns too. Like from the outside in, he seems like a very stoic man. A few words, like, doesn't really open up much about his feelings towards any of the women. You know, he talks about himself being like uneasy or there's a lot of friction in his life or these different things. But the reassurance of like, hey, I'm interested in you. Did you get a lot of that from him?

[Cindy Kohlers]

He always is super generous to me and just in the subtle things. He, he's not the type of man. Jonathan, to your, to your comment to say, oh, I like you better than xyz, that's just, that's just not who he's ever going to be. And if you asked him to do it, that would. You don't know Mel. You don't know Mel very well. If you pushed him into that.

[Jonathan]

Yeah, you're asking him to be something that he's not.

[Cindy Kohlers]

He's not. He's not. And nor, nor did I want him or need him to be. I, as long as I was there, it meant I was interested. If he still kept me along and meant he was interested. And we're just going to take every moment, every sip may make it a gulp on our one on one, but we were going to just take every chance to explore that.

[Jonathan]

It feels as if you understand him. Like you understand who he is and how he communicates. And you were Able to read between the lines. You need that verbal reassurance all the time.

[Cindy Kohlers]

He was very intentional on our, with our time together and at every, every little moment. I caught him at the pool party. Pool party was interesting for me. Right. I.

[Asma Khalid]

Let's talk about pool party if we're doing this.

[Jonathan]

Yeah, please do. Yeah, we were gonna get to the drama with Nicole eventually anyways, so.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah. So I don't mind diving right into that because. So tell, tell us about the pool party. I mean, we weren't there. You were experiencing it for hours. We saw minutes of it. But clearly like there were some uncomfortable moments, like even watching it on tv. I said I had. My five year old grandson was laying in bed with me that night and he was like turned away from the tv, but I was like, yeah, he can't watch this. Like, this is a lot.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Yeah. Everybody has their journey and everybody has their path. And Nicole and Melissa had chemistry for sure. There's. There's no doubt about it. It's not a choice that many of us would have made and I think we've made that very clear. Nicole and I are friends. I told her how I felt about it. She knows. And I'm fine with where she is. She's fine with where I am. So that's not the problem. The, the. What I think wasn't really explored on this show is it wasn't just that we wanted to change Nicole's behavior. Many of us were wondering, is this the type of man that we would choose and would my man allow this access to, to, to him under these circumstances? And so, you know, Jim, I thought about, I thought about you as I was reflecting and trying to process this. Like, what would that be like to, to be in a situation where you've got 23 men throwing themselves at you and would you always be your best? Would you always be. You know, I like to say I want to be the. I want to behave in the way that my future husband will be proud of me. So if he is in that group, would he be proud and would Mel have been proud of the way he behaved, knowing that his future person was there? And so that, that's really where I was coming at it. And I had to, I had to come to a point of race with Mel. I said new, new circumstance for sure. It's a completely out of body experience.

[Jonathan]

The right way to do it. And this is the first time too.

[Cindy Kohlers]

You know, it's her is. And, and so we just, I just found a moment of grace for him and for Nicole too. Listen, they. They have chemistry together. There's no doubt about it. So you just, you know, you just have to see it for what it is. And that's at the end of the day how I choose to see it. And I chose to see it at that day.

[Asma Khalid]

You are very kind. And I felt like watching it on TV was uncomfortable, so I thought being there was 20 times more uncomfortable.

[Jonathan]

I had to have been.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah. And I felt like it was even uncomfortable for Mel. It didn't look like he was really embracing it.

[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

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[Audible Advertiser]

We've all heard of Pride and Prejudice, so I had to share that the audible original Pride and Prejudice is an intimate performance that will have you falling in love with the Jane Austen Boston classic all over again. Pride and Prejudice stars a full cast of voices you'll love to listen to, including Marisa Abella, known from industry and black bag as Elizabeth Bennett, and Harris Dickinson, known from Baby Girl and Where the Crawdads Sing as the dreamy Mr. Darcy. Plus Marianne, Jean Baptiste, Will Poulter, Bill Nye, and Glenn Close as Lady Catherine de Bourgh. Marisa Abella brings you inside the stubborn and complicated mind of Elizabeth Bennet as she navigates family expectations, societal pressures and her own misconceptions. When she meets the enigmatic Mr. Darcy. This adaptation is vibrant and modern with an original new score by a Grammy nominated composer really drawing you into the story. Whether you're fresh to Pride and Prejudice like I am or want to revisit a cherished favorite, you're in for a new and delightful listening experience. Before Enemies to Lovers existed, there was Elizabeth Bennet and Mr. Darcy. A classic fan favorite, Pride and Prejudice is globally recognized as one of the greatest romance novels ever written for good reason. So be sure to listen to the new Pride and prejudice on audible.com janeaustin.

[Kiskali Breast Cancer Advocate]

Host compensated for their time I know many strong women who are breast cancer patients, so as you might imagine, it's a topic especially near and dear to my heart. Watching them suffer through the challenges of their experiences made me realize I wanted to help other women not only become more comfortable talking about breast health, but also help them learn about breast cancer treatments that may be available to them. That's why I want to tell you About Kiskali Kiskali Ribociclib 200mg tablets are taken with an aromatase inhibitor. It's for adults with HR positive HER2 negative stage 2 or 3 early breast cancer with a high risk of recurrence and it can help reduce the risk of cancer coming back. In a clinical study at three years, 91% of people taking Kiskali plus an aromatase inhibitor were cancer free versus 88% taking an aromatase inhibitor alone. Individual results may vary. Kiskali may cause serious skin reactions, liver problems and low white blood cell counts that may result in serious infections. Life threatening lung problems and abnormal heartbeats can occur. Your doctor should test your heart and blood before and during treatment. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening cough, chest pain or dizziness before taking Kaskali. Tell your doctor all your medical conditions, medicines you take and if you're breastfeeding pregnant or planning to be as it can harm an unborn baby. Common side effects include nausea, headache and tiredness. Defense is important on and off the ice and Kiskali is all about doing more to help protect your tomorrow. So find out how you can too. Visit qiskali.com that's K I S Q A L I.com to learn more and ask your doctor if Kiskali is right for you.

[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

No one's journey is the same. That's why Delta SkyMiles lets you do it your way. From earning miles on reloads for coffee runs, shopping and things you do every day to connecting you to new places and experiences. A Sky Miles membership fits into your lifestyle, letting you do more of what makes you you. It's more than travel, it's the membership that flies, dines streams, rides, and arrives with you. Every great journey deserves a great story. And when you have a membership that's as unique as you are, there's no telling how your story will unfold or where that journey will take you next. SkyMiles is the membership that will be here for all your big and small moments. The membership that's there for every solo adventure or family trip. The membership that comes with the power of partnership from brands you love. The membership that moves with you. Learn [e-mail] SkyMiles America is changing, and.

[Asma Khalid]

So is the world.

[Cindy Kohlers]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Tristan Redman in London, and this is the global story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Asma Khalid]

I feel like I'm getting a little glimpse into Mel that I haven't had yet, so I appreciate that 100%, like, helping us with this, Cindy, because I think, like, everybody wants to see that. He's so stoic, and he doesn't really reveal a lot about himself. Which kind of brings me a little bit to your date. And you guys, now you've ridden. So first of all, you arrived in your cowboy boots. I love that about you. You're embracing your Texas. You're letting him know who you are and, like, what you know, what's important to you and, like, where you're from. Okay. And he seems to really like it. Like, he thinks it's pretty sexy and cute, so. And you just happen to look adorable. Like, being your Texas, you. You got to be on a horse that he was super uncomfortable with, which kind of gave you a little bit of upper hand. He was like, you know, I'm a professional football player. Nothing scares me. And yet he couldn't control that horse to save his life, which was so funny. And you were so comfortable on it. So. But really the thing. And I love that part of the date, but I really loved when you guys finally got to your destination and you got to sit down and you got to talk about yourself and you got to, like, kind of tell him, like, who you really are. And obviously he knew some stuff about you. You know, you reflected on that. You were this biomedical engineer. So, my God, you're a super smart, beautiful woman, and then you're a valedictorian and Then you were a cheerleader. You had it all going for you.

[Jonathan]

Such a badass.

[Asma Khalid]

Also had such a badass. And we love that about you. But then you also had these other parts of life that didn't go perfectly. And one of the things that you sounded like was such a huge disappointment was all you wanted was a stable family for your daughters and for you. And you ended up with a marriage going bad. And you talked about that on national TV to this man. And I really so much wanted for him to give that back to you. And we're all, like, anxious to hear it. We all want to hear. We all want to love Mel. We all want to. Like, he's like, this successful guy. None of us are going, you know, this poor guy, he deserves another chance at love. He hasn't led us into that part of his life, and that was a perfect time. How did you feel when you opened up and then he didn't give it back to you?

[Cindy Kohlers]

It was very disappointing, I'll be honest. Like, for me to be that vulnerable.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Cindy Kohlers]

I expected a little bit more back from him, and if he doesn't want to share with me perhaps about his history, maybe give me more reassurance as to where I am in his world.

[Kiskali Breast Cancer Advocate]

Right.

[Cindy Kohlers]

And I didn't get. I really. I honestly didn't get either. And I know that people might look at these one on one dates, frankly, the whole show, and believe that it's. We're trying to woo Mel. Well, that's only part of it. I'm living my life. This is Cindy's life. Yeah.

[Jonathan]

You need to feel wood as well.

[Cindy Kohlers]

And. And he did woo me. He got on a horse. He'd never been on a horse. I don't know if you know it. He's allergic to horses.

[Jonathan]

Did not know that one.

[Asma Khalid]

Oh, my gosh. Producers did not know that. Huh. Wow.

[Cindy Kohlers]

We still thought that would be a fun date. His feet were so big. He can't put his foot in the stirrup. So he just had his toe in the stirrup. So I could tell how much he was. He was giving me in those things. But he. He wasn't verbalizing any vulnerability to me or giving me any emotional. So I'm. I'm. I'm balancing between, you know, can one replace the other? And I think you need. I think you need both. Yeah.

[Jonathan]

And that goes back to the. Having to read between the lines that I talked about earlier. It's like, yes, you can. And it seems as if you had the ability to. But there are moments or these Little moments where you're like, I need more sometimes. Like, it's such a rush process. We talked about, like, I've known you for a few hours, like, spent this much time with you, where you have this time now. You got this one on one. Like. Yeah. You got it over the other women. That's not the basis of what you're worried about. You're worried about getting to develop your relationship more with this individual that you have a lot of feelings for. It's okay to feel those feelings. And, like, part of me wishes you kind of put it to him a little bit where you're just like, hey, tell me. Like, just, like, open up. You know what I mean? And he seems like the kind that kind of needs that push a little bit sometimes.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah. He needs to be. He needs to be coached. Mel. Need to be coached a little bit.

[Jonathan]

Yeah. Not that you want him to be different than who he is. You want him to express who he is in those.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah, for sure.

[Cindy Kohlers]

And people and a kiss cannot replace that verbal and getting to know each other.

[Asma Khalid]

It just.

[Cindy Kohlers]

They can't. A kiss cannot replace the vulnerability that you need in a relationship. A part of it is, I'm thinking that he's waiting until we have time together, just the two of us. And that's what I'm reading at the moment.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Cindy Kohlers]

By the way, I keep giving him grace, don't I? You see a common theme. I keep letting him off the hook. I know.

[Jonathan]

I know.

[Cindy Kohlers]

It's a difficult position for him to be in, too.

[Asma Khalid]

It is. It's uncomfortable.

[Cindy Kohlers]

I'm having to make my decisions as well.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah. So I feel like people need to understand that every single day is a leap of faith.

[Audible Advertiser]

Faith.

[Asma Khalid]

Because like, we were all saying, you spend so little time with the person, and so that going to the next day and saying, am I willing to spend time away from my home and my family and my job and my loved ones and my own bed and the comforts of my life to be here one more day with this person. And I keep making this leap of faith. Okay. This is another leap of faith every single day. But when you come down to, like, final six people, now, we've had one similar, you know, an elimination. So it's down to the final five people. Like, how many leaps of faith can you keep doing till you think, okay, now I'm just being stupid. And, like, so, like, I need something back. Back, you know, I need more back to make me take the leap one more day. And, like, were you getting it from that date I mean, it was really cute that he gave you the little thing that he named the star after you. But, like, sometimes I feel like Bachelor introduces props because the person is having a hard time, like saying the heart, like saying the emotional things or doing the emotional things. So they introduce a prop. And that prop was that thing that he named the star Cindy, which was cute. And it did say in love Mel at the bottom. And he did read it to you. Like, was that enough of a replacement for you or is that. Did that give you enough to make the next leap of faith?

[Cindy Kohlers]

I'll be honest. My first test with him was chemistry.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Cindy Kohlers]

My second test with him is compatibility and comfort. Could I be in his presence and not be nervous? And then there's a compatibility of can he integrate into my life? And is he willing to let me integrate into his after seven years of being divorced and on my own? Like, yeah, really? Now rubber is hitting the road or the hoofs are hitting the. The trail.

[Jonathan]

Yeah.

[Asma Khalid]

Right.

[Cindy Kohlers]

This is real. And it's real to him and real scary to him. But it's the first time I've really been confronted with that voice as well. Yeah. That full vulnerability with you too.

[Asma Khalid]

I said that the whole time during my season. Kind of every rose ceremony, I said, this is a two way street. Like, I can offer you a rose. You don't have to take it. If you don't feel like I'm the right person for you, you need to say no. Like, open up the dialogue. It's not a one way street. But let's talk rose ceremony because here we are, we get a rose ceremony, and this is a big one because this, like you said.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Oh, this is a big, important.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah, it's super important because this is when hometown decision to make your. For you to meet. For him to meet your family and your girls. And I know it sounds like your girls are your life. And I had the same thing with my kids.

[Audible Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Asma Khalid]

And so you're going to this rose ceremony. He called your name first again.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Have you been noticing?

[Asma Khalid]

I have been noticing, as a matter of fact. And you seemed very happy. So I feel like you took that next leap. You did that leap of faith again. And he gave you enough to want for you to introduce him to your family.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Sometimes I believe that my family for sure and my friends are the best mirror for me. The best. And knowing that he would have a chance to see where I live, to see why I live here, this was a big, bold change in my life. And it's important that the man that I bind myself with understands that I'm fully capable of making big bold moves and seeing and meeting my family because everybody says their kids are special and they are, but my family is, it's unique and it's all my son in laws tell me. It's a lot.

[Asma Khalid]

So I have that family.

[Cindy Kohlers]

That's hilarious. And so you, like you really. I needed them. I needed them to meet Mel and to help me. Help to be my mirror and to look at him and reflect him into our lives. And then I also needed Mel to see my family and where I live and my lifestyle. So it was an important next step. If I, I still wasn't there. Mel was still not. I mean he's got all these women in tow. But it's, it's a tough decision. This is, it's a big step to my kids haven't met a new man in years.

[Asma Khalid]

I know. That's a big step. I know.

[Cindy Kohlers]

1.2 million people, that's all. We had a lot of chances.

[Jonathan]

I don't even know how you have the time for it.

[Asma Khalid]

I know. What did you, what do you think about that? He, like, I'm just trying to figure out his type and I've said this over and over again. I mean Debbie and Peg and you all seem so different. I, I, I couldn't figure out who he was going to choose. Like I, I didn't think he was going to choose Nicole, but I thought he might choose Cheryl. Like she was a possibility. I didn't really know because like I can't figure him out. He just gives so little that I have no idea what his type is.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Mel said from the beginning he, he doesn't really know either and that this process of going through the Golden Bachelor is his way of finding all finding out and trying on different types of personalities and different types of lifestyles. And it's fair. You know, there is a big divergence with the three of us and, and yet there's a lot in common. You know, there's three very loving women who all are committed and, and I think Mel is monogamous by nature. And so, you know, I ref, I see a different facet of myself both in Debbie and in Peg. So I could see why he's narrowed it down and that had to be a really tough choice to let go of Nicole and Cheryl, who are also phenomenal women who have so much to give and offer. And I know he had a connection with.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah, yeah. Is there anything that like we haven't covered in this episode? Like I know there are so many things probably swirling around your mind. Is there something that we didn't hit that you would like, you know, let the viewing public, you know, have an insight into something cool that happened or something you want them to know?

[Cindy Kohlers]

There is a moment at which I tell Mel and I. I've only felt this one other time in my life that he feels like a combination of home and vacation all wrapped up in the same skin.

[Asma Khalid]

I love that.

[Cindy Kohlers]

And to be with him on that one on one was more important than. Than I expected. I. I wasn't confident confident like I wouldn't have placed a bet in Vegas on it, but I was confident that he wanted to come meet my family in Austin and he wanted to take it further and that the one on one was an affirmation of that, that he wanted to spend more time with me before we got there. But I was pretty confident he wanted to take things further. But that one on one just really grew things for. For me. And I saw both sides of them. It was. I finally found a home because, you know, you're in the mansion, you have all these fantasy dates, which, you know, come on. How can we replicate what ABC can do? It's phenomenal.

[Asma Khalid]

Right, Right.

[Jonathan]

So that you have unrealistic, amazing dates.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Yeah, amazing, amazing. But you have to find a home in it, too. And to. To maybe even, you know, in some ways have that feeling of home feel like a vacation. And I definitely. I definitely found that on our one on one date.

[Asma Khalid]

I love that. That's like such a. I think kind of we ought to wrap with that statement right there. You found home and vacation in the same person and. Yeah, like, how could you be any better about that? So can you tease. Can you give us any little snippet that. About the hometowns, about you taking Mel to meet your family and friends?

[Cindy Kohlers]

Well, that is. Let's see. Which direction should I take this? Having Mel in Austin is. It's very exciting. Let's just say the chemistry continues, and he does have some great interactions with my most treasured people. And he finds a couple party favors along the way.

[Jonathan]

Is there any drama?

[Cindy Kohlers]

Any drama? A little bit.

[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

Oh, okay.

[Jonathan]

See this? Okay. That's the direction I wanted to Just.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Just remember, it's super important that my family falls in love with him too.

[Jonathan]

Falls in loves or likes?

[Cindy Kohlers]

Falls in love? Are you kidding? My family just can't like him. How would that work? That doesn't work.

[Jonathan]

No, yeah, I. I agree completely. Again, you're going off very little cues up until this Point. And now these people who aren't in this, I keep calling it a vacuum every time I talk about the show because you are a lot. You have no outside connections. There's no phone, no tv, none of this. So you finally get to be around the people who know, you know what you need, know what you deserve, and know what you want, and they get to meet this person that potentially, after hours of knowing them, is gonna propose to you at the end of this thing.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Jonathan]

Need them to not need. Like, there's no other option. They have to love him.

[Cindy Kohlers]

There's no. There is no other option.

[Jonathan]

And I'm excited to see if that happens for you because it's a very realistic feeling.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Mel has to ask permission.

[Jonathan]

Oh, yeah.

[Cindy Kohlers]

We will have to ask permission to marry me by these people that he doesn't know. And it is surreal because they haven't spent the hours with him that I have. This is cold. They don't know. They haven't had a chance to. To talk to him or to me. So they're. They're going in with blind faith, and they know nothing. It should be an episode for sure that everyone wants to see.

[Asma Khalid]

Oh, I do. I'm excited. So I'm excited for this week's episode. I cannot wait to see you introduce them to your daughters, because I know how special they are for you. So I think that's all for today's episode. We love. Can I talking to you. Yes.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Can I just say thank you so much. You guys are so fun and dynamic and charming, and you never know because we see you on TV and you seem so distant, but you're everything that everyone can can. I mean, you're just so gracious and loving and warm and what a treat to be on the show with you. Thank you.

[Jonathan]

I know Jones the best, right?

[Cindy Kohlers]

No, please.

[Asma Khalid]

She's talking about you, Jonathan.

[Jonathan]

She is the best. I'm just kidding.

[Asma Khalid]

I am not.

[Cindy Kohlers]

She is the best, and so are you. And so.

[Asma Khalid]

Oh, my God. Well, you feel the same way about you, and I hope that we do do many, many more of these with you in the, you know, months and years to come. I don't think this is the end of our journey, so I'm thrilled that we got to be here on this very special podcast talking to you right after this kind of major date. So thank you for taking the time to be with us and for being on Bachelor Happy Hour and for being.

[Jonathan]

A good sport as a whole. Like, he answered all of our questions and when we needed a little tea, gave us the little moments too. We loved every second of it.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Same. Thank you so much. You're welcome to Austin and anytime. And if you're here, I fully expect you to look me up and we'll have some time.

[Asma Khalid]

Totally gonna get you. Text you. Yeah.

[Cindy Kohlers]

My superpower. My superpower is reservations.

[Jonathan]

Reservations. How about reservations if you bring me a plus one that's also a great.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Super Jonathan for you. I could find a plus 20. I could find you plus 20 for you. 1.2. Like 1.6.

[Jonathan]

Okay, perfect.

[Asma Khalid]

1.6 million. Well, thank you everybody for listening. Be sure to subscribe. Joe and Serena will be back with more exclusive interviews with the women from Mel season to come.

[Jonathan]

Yep. Thanks for listening.

[Asma Khalid]

Thanks, everyone.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Thank you.

[Jonathan]

Bye, guys.

[Cindy Kohlers]

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[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

The chance to hang out with Diplo Bailey Zimmerman while I was there.

[Cindy Kohlers]

How did Ashes come together, Diplo? I pulled up real quick.

[Asma Khalid]

He was about to leave on tour.

[Jonathan]

You're about to jump in your tour bus. And we had like three hours.

[Asma Khalid]

It was really cool.

[Cindy Kohlers]

He really just, like, randomly showed up to my house. I'm like, oh, hey, Diplo, what are you doing? He's like, I have a song that I want to show you. And I was like, okay, you can.

[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

Listen to the full episode out now.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Wherever you get your podcast. And big shout out to my friends at Hyundai for making this possible. Had a blast cruising around festival weekend.

[Virgin Voyages Advertiser]

In the all new Palisade hybrid.

[Asma Khalid]

America is changing, and so is the world.

[Cindy Kohlers]

But what's happening in America isn't just the cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Cindy Kohlers]

Tristan Redman in London, and this is the global story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and.

[Cindy Kohlers]

America meet listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Cindy Kohlers]

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[Cindy Kohlers]

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[Cindy Kohlers]

This is an iHeart podcast.