Joan’s 411 on Fantasy Suites! | Happy Hour

Summary

Bachelor Happy Hour Podcast Summary
Episode: Joan’s 411 on Fantasy Suites!
Date: November 7, 2025
Hosts: Joe Amabile & Serena Pitt | Guest: Joan (Golden Bachelorette alumna)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Bachelor Happy Hour welcomes Joan, the former Golden Bachelorette, to chat with hosts Joe and Serena about the current Golden Bachelor season, the nuances of Fantasy Suites, lead Mel’s approach to relationships, and how the franchise portrays emotional connection and drama. Joan offers unique insight as both a recent contestant and a successful lead, sharing hot takes on the remaining finalists, production choices, and speculating about who should be the next Golden Bachelorette.

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Main Discussion Points & Highlights

1. Joan’s Personal Updates

• Joan shares updates about her personal life post-show, revealing a busy fall and plans with partner Chuck. They struggled to secure a place in NYC but might do a month-long Airbnb as a trial to find the right neighborhood.

  • “For maybe the month of December, we're just going to get an Airbnb and just stay there for the month...hopefully some things will come up while we're there.” — Joan (05:11)

• Joan and Chuck have maintained their relationship despite scheduling challenges and long periods apart over the summer, but are back in their groove now.

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2. Behind-the-Scenes as the Golden Bachelorette

• Joan explains how being on Gary’s season (Golden Bachelor S1) prepped her emotionally:

  • “Gary was, you know, he was a great lead. He made it so all of us women felt comfortable opening up.” — Joan (07:10)

• Compares Gary’s emotional openness to Mel’s reserved style, noting it's harder for men in that role to quickly open up, and that having an experienced lead significantly impacts contestant vulnerability.

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3. In-depth: Contestants & Emotional Journeys

Cindy’s Emotional Rollercoaster

• Joan praises Cindy’s patience and emotional openness, drawing parallels to Leslie from her own season.
  • “She was really, really giving and open and ready, even with kind of very few signs from him...she got invested very quickly without ever having a date.” — Joan (09:38)

Debbie’s Arc and Hometown Visit

• Debbie’s lack of young family members present on her hometown date was possibly a factor in Mel’s decision not to keep her around, contrasting with other contenders whose lives are centered around family.
  • “Her date or her hometown seemed very different. It seemed like they were at a retirement community. There was no young energy.” — Joan (12:11)

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4. Production, Editing, and Missing Context

• All three discuss the condensed format of hometowns and the general lack of visible relationship development this season.
  • “I feel like I haven't seen any of the relationships unfold this season...I feel like I've missed whole conversations.” — Joan (19:54)
• There’s agreement that the show is omitting key conversations, particularly around rose ceremonies and critical emotional discussions, leading to less investment from viewers and less clarity on relationships.

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5. Mel as a Lead: Pros, Cons, and Strategy

Mel’s Reserved Approach

• Mel is described as logical, inquisitive, attentive, but very reserved with his emotions.
  • “He is so insanely left brain dominant—it's wild to watch.” — Serena (25:17)
• Joan applauds that he hasn’t told multiple women “I love you,” avoiding a common lead pitfall.
  • “He is doing it and I have to applaud him for that because it's very hard to do.” — Joan (23:31)
• Mel asks strong questions to suss out intent (e.g., asking Nicole about her five-year plan), but gives minimal personal disclosure in return.

Women’s Response

• The women, while smart and accomplished, start pushing back as fantasy suite week approaches, wanting more openness from Mel.

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6. Speculation: The Next Golden Bachelorette

Joan’s picks if Mel doesn’t choose anyone:

• Debbie: Never-married, older contestant, brings “a different perspective...a little shakeup.” — Joan (26:17)
• Terry: Kind, supportive, humorous, and older (“72 years old...no one would ever know”).
  • “They could cast some older men for her.” — Joan (27:59)
• Honorable mention: Diane, for being someone “we are rooting for.”

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7. Fantasy Suite: Meaning, Awkwardness, and Real Talk

Peg’s Fantasy Suite Date

• ATV date with Peg: Mel's cautious/slow driving mirrored his risk-averse, cautious approach to relationships.

  • “She learned something about him that maybe she thought was true, but now she really got a taste of it.” — Joan (34:38)

• The next morning showcased a new, relaxed side of Mel—blushing, “lounging in his jeans.”

  • “That was the happiest I've seen him...and most comfortable. We're getting a glimpse at maybe the Mel that they've been seeing, but we haven't been seeing.” — Joan (35:18)

On the Night Conversations

• Peg didn’t push Mel for deeper honesty, but Joan notes the importance of fantasy suites for private, off-camera talks about important life issues—sometimes more so than the physical component.

Cindy’s Fantasy Suite & Mel’s Risk Aversion

• Date with stingrays: Mel’s hesitancy paralleled his discomfort with leaps of faith in both activities and emotional decisions.
  • “He just doesn't like doing things that make him uncomfortable. And a lot of this is uncomfortable...I'm worried...he's risk adverse. I kind of call him leap of faith adverse.” — Joan (41:01)

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8. Will Mel Propose? Panel Speculation

• Consensus: Mel seems unlikely to propose, given his logic-driven, cautious style.

  • “Absolutely, unequivocally has said, ‘I'm not in love with either one of you.’ He's literally said it.” — Joan (42:26)

• If he does propose, everyone would be shocked. The alternative expectation: he’ll leave dating Peg, but not engaged.

• Joan speculates Mel might not stick with any finalist post-show, as he’ll have “a lot of women going after him” (“He'll like that attention.” — Joan, 43:27)

• Serena suspects Cindy is being set up by the edit for a bigger heartbreak, but Joan and Joe see logic for either finalist.

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Gary...made it so all of us women felt comfortable opening up.” (Joan, 07:10)
• “She was really, really giving and open and ready...she got invested very quickly without ever having a date.” (Joan on Cindy, 09:38)
• “Her date or her hometown seemed very different. It seemed like they were at a retirement community. There was no young energy.” (Joan on Debbie, 12:11)
• “He is so insanely left brain dominant—it's wild to watch.” (Serena, 25:17)
• “He asks questions. The problem is he doesn't answer any questions...” (Joan on Mel, 24:30)
• “I think the fantasy suite is a good time for people that are uncomfortable having conversations about their emotions.” (Joan, 38:37)
• “I'm worried...he's risk adverse. I kind of call him leap of faith adverse.” (Joan, 41:01)
• “Absolutely, unequivocally has said, ‘I'm not in love with either one of you.’ He's literally said it.” (Joan, 42:26)
• “If he doesn't get engaged, he's gonna be a really popular guy when this show finishes...He'll like that attention.” (Joan, 43:27)

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Key Timestamps for Segments

• 03:28 – Joan discusses her relationship with Chuck and their NYC housing hunt
• 06:36 – Joan on her own journey as a contestant and the value of having “been there” before being lead
• 08:57 – Dive into Cindy's emotional investment and family
• 11:29 – Discussion on Debbie, differences between contestants with/without families
• 19:54 – Frustration with production/editing and missing conversations
• 21:17 – Mel’s emotional style and the women’s pushback
• 23:31 – Joan’s lead advice: don’t say “I love you” to more than one person
• 26:01 – Next Golden Bachelorette speculation (Debbie, Terry, Diane)
• 34:38 – Fantasy Suite deep-dive, Peg’s date and Mel’s personality
• 41:01 – Mel’s avoidance of risk and “leap of faith”
• 42:26 – Will Mel propose? Panel’s predictions

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Tone & Takeaways

• Friendly, candid, and occasionally analytical, Joan provides both empathy and gentle criticism, mixing behind-the-scenes wisdom with speculation.
• Both hosts contribute a blend of playful banter, Bachelor-lore expertise, and thoughtful probing—great for seasoned Bachelor Nation fans and casual listeners interested in TV romance dynamics.
• The episode highlights the tension between reality TV production choices and authentic relationships, showing how both can shape public perception of contestants and outcomes.

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Summary in One Line:
Joan brings a thoughtful, insider lens to dissecting Mel’s reserved approach, the season’s emotional beats, and offers juicy speculation for future Golden franchise leads, all while advocating for more real conversation—both on and off camera.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

I consider myself to be a pretty good gift giver. I've got my list.

[C]

Checked it twice, probably three times. She takes the holidays very seriously.

[B]

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[C]

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[C]

Hey everyone, welcome back to Bet yout Happy Hour.

[A]

I'm Joe.

[B]

And I'm Serena.

[C]

And we are here today with none other than the past golden bachelorette Joan. Joan, welcome to the podcast.

[B]

Hi, guys.

[A]

Thanks for having me. Hi.

[B]

Thanks for coming on. How have you been?

[A]

I've been great. Busy fall, but I'm ready for the cool weather. I'm thinking you're having it too in New York, aren't you?

[B]

It's here. Yep. Yeah, it's a little bit chilly today, which is kind of nice. It matches like the fall mood. And as much as, you know, we love fall, we're very excited for Christmas. So cold weather. Christmas is coming.

[C]

How's that?

[A]

I know.

[C]

How's everything with you and Chuck?

[A]

Everything's great. We had kind of a. A weird summer. We were both had made plans, like prior to us kind of getting together, like he had planned to go on a safari with his son. So he was gone for two weeks. I was gone for a different two weeks with. On another vacation. So we kind of had like a weird summer where we didn't see each other a lot, but we've seen each other a lot in the fall, so. And we have a lot of plans for the next like two or three months. So we're kind of back into our groove again.

[B]

Oh, that's nice. What are the plans for the holidays?

[A]

So this year, so he's coming to my house for Thanksgiving and then Christmas he's actually going to spend in Wichita and I'm going to spend here. And then we're going to get together a couple days afterwards and probably go through New Year's someplace. Maybe here, maybe New York someplace. Yeah.

[B]

Nice. Did you guys ever end up getting a place in New York?

[A]

No, we're still looking. This is so hard, you know? And I know you get it if you're not living there, like a place will come up and I'll go, okay, I can come up in like two days or like it'll be like on.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So it's just too hard. We even put like offers in on places like site unseen and they're. They rejected them because we hadn't seen them. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, really? They like, won't take it unless you've been there to see it. Actually I actually had a friend that.

[A]

Told me that, yeah, they had multiple offers and they chose the one that had actually come to see the place. So which makes sense, I guess, if you have multiple offers. So it's like a lot harder than we ever thought. So it's been a year of us like thinking we're going to get a place and we still don't. So I think for maybe the month of December, we're just going to get an Airbnb and just stay there for the month of December and May. First of all, I love it there in December, so I want to be there anyway. And then maybe that will give us a way to find a place. Hopefully some things will come up while we're there.

[B]

Definitely.

[C]

I would say that makes. That makes the most sense. It's definitely one of those cities where, like, if you want to get an apartment, you just have to come and get it. And unless you're going to, like, if you're going to stay for a month, I think that's a good amount of time to find something that you really like. If not, like, the two days you're here, you just have to, like, suck.

[B]

It up and be like, okay, whatever we find.

[C]

This place may not be my favorite, but I'm taking it.

[B]

I mean, that's kind of what we did. We came in for, I think, like, four or five days.

[C]

Not even. I think we were only here for. We only looked at apartments for two.

[B]

We did two days of looking. We did one day in Brooklyn, one day in Manhattan. And then at the end of it, we, like, they. Our friend sl real estate agent, was basically like, you got. You got to pick one. These will be gone in a day. So either you got to come back and look another time if you didn't find what you're loving, or hopefully you found something that feels like it works. And we were like, all right, we're going. We did. We were like, we're going with this one done. But it is intense. They don't mess around.

[A]

We were. We were super picky. And now I'm like, over that. So I think you knew that you had that lesson. Someone told you that, that you can't be super picky. So now I was like, I only want to be in Soho, and I only want three bedrooms. And, like, there's like, two in the next year that will, like, satisfy that criteria. So I. I'm just gonna now just say I want to be in New York City, and I'll figure out where I want to be once I'm there for, like, a more permanent thing.

[B]

Yes. And a month will be great because you'll be able to kind of spend some time in the city and figure out really, like, what your must haves are.

[A]

Yep. Right. Like a big closet.

[B]

A big closet.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's always a good one.

[A]

Yes. Let's.

[C]

Let's talk. Let's talk a little golden. I want to ask your thoughts on this, because you were not on Gary season for too long. You ended up. You ended up sending yourself home. But do you think so like, Mel. We kind of talked about, like, Mel and, like, kind of just struggling a little bit to open up. And. And I. I blame a lot of it on the fact that he's never been on a season. Yeah, like, he was never on, like, your season, for instance, to, like, kind of get comfortable in front of the cameras. Do you think that little bit of time that you were on Gary season helped you as the lead?

[A]

It definitely did so well. So first, I have to hand it. I have to hand it to Gary because he had no experience, and he's the one that made it good for us women. He was so open and so vulnerable and so emotional, really, that it made it easy for us. So I think having a lead that is good at that and they just happened to really hit the, you know, the nose on the head. The head. Is that right? Nose on the head? Because he was just naturally, like, very effusive with his emotions. So it definitely kind of made me more comfortable being that way. If I had had a lead like Mel, I probably would have come off maybe a lot more closed. But Gary was, you know, he was a great lead. He. He made it so all of us women felt comfortable opening up. So, yeah, definitely being on a season. But it depends on the lead of the season, because I think, once again, if. If Gary hadn't been so open, I think it would have eventually happened. I think women are just naturally, possibly more emotional, especially as you get more and more tired and you get less and less away. You get longer and longer away from your home and your friends and your family. You feel more needy. So I do feel like the women would have gotten there on Gary season, and I think the women on Mel season have gotten there. I think men are going to have a harder time with it, and Mel certainly has struggled with that.

[C]

Yeah, makes sense. You. You got to interview Sydney Sid.

[B]

Cindy.

[A]

Joe has a hard time with Cindy's and Chicago accent.

[C]

Yeah, Cindy. You interviewed Cindy on. On this podcast. Overall, like, what'd you take away from that interview? What are your thoughts on her?

[A]

So, gosh, I think she is so incredibly bright and. And she's beautiful. I felt like she was giving more than he was giving, and she was very patient with him. And, you know, she talked so much about her family while she was on the show, and she brought him to her home and introduced her to her daughters, who are, like, mean everything to her. So once again, I felt like, she was really, really giving and open and ready, even with kind of very few signs from him. And I think she's been very patient, and I hope it turns out for her, but I'm a little worried.

[C]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah, we. For Cindy, at the beginning of the season, she was falling so hard and so fast. We were really feeling, like, protective over her and her emotions, but. But she seems to have kind of, like, gotten her footing. Yeah, I don't know. I'm curious to see how it plays out.

[A]

Totally agree. She was very emotional, and she said she's a very emotional person. So I think that came out so much in her interviews, like, her emotions and that. You're right. She got invested very quickly without ever having a date. So she had a date really, really late in the season, and it seems like, okay, so Cheryl, you understand her getting invested. Do you understand some of the people that had earlier dates, you know, kind of feeling like they had a connection? And, like, we kind of know that when you are on Bachelor, the people that have the earlier dates have kind of a head start. So, like, like, I picked chalk in the beginning because I wanted to see if, like, I felt really good about him and I wanted to, like, test my theory. And if your theory is right, sometimes those people just have a head start. So, like, Cheryl had a head start. You know, Debbie kind of had one. I mean, there's a bunch of people that had head starts. Cindy was the last one. Yet even regardless of that, she was already really emotionally involved with him.

[C]

Does she remind you maybe not. Not like her herself, but, like, her journey or how she's handling this. Remind you of anyone from your season.

[A]

Like, as far as being as. Yeah, actually a little bit of Leslie. She was very emotionally involved with him from the very beginning. Even, like, when somebody would, like, somebody else would get a date card, she'd get really, like, upset about it.

[B]

Yeah, if anybody being really emotionally invested very quickly.

[A]

Very quickly, and then didn't get a date forever and. Gosh, I can't even remember. Oh, and then her date was very sporty because she's really athletic and was atving. And she was disappointed, actually, in her date because she wanted something more romantic.

[B]

Okay. Interesting. Out of the other women from this season who has kind of stuck out to you?

[A]

Oh, I love Debbie.

[B]

You know, my heart goes certain that it was going to be her and Mel at the end.

[A]

Yeah, he really thought I was.

[C]

I really.

[A]

I'm with you. I'm totally with you. Especially when it came down to the last three. I'M like, okay, you got this, you got this, girl. I was so disappointed when he sent her home. And I, I do kind of get it. You know, someone who's never been married before is coming to this, into this and that doesn't have children is coming into this like at a different place in their life kind of, you know, as far as maturity and where you are in like your, maybe your career journey, you might be in the same place, but like to have this family and, and I also have to say, like, her date or her hometown seemed very different. It seemed like they were at a retirement community. Like there was no young energy. And he is around a lot of young energy. Like in his life. He has young sons, he's an athlete, so he's around, you know, athletics. So, you know, again, younger people. So I think maybe Debbie's hometown kind of ruined it for her a little bit. I think otherwise they were a really good match.

[B]

That's so interesting. I never thought about it that way.

[C]

I thought about that. That makes. Because I remember even just like when he went to Cindy's house in the Three young daughters.

[A]

Yeah. And their son in laws.

[C]

Their son.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Their fiances.

[B]

I looked at it as Debbie would maybe feel like, feel younger in terms of her stage of life because she hasn't been married and had children. Like she almost. Her story really felt like it mirrored a lot of the stories of the women that go on the regular season of the Bachelor. Like saying, you know, I'm looking for love. I've never been married. I want all of these things. But you're right, her, her day to day life because she doesn't have children or grandchildren. She spends way more time with people that are her age probably.

[A]

And, and having kids and having grandkids really keep you young. Honestly, like, my kids keep me like, kind of, you know, I know the, the music. I, I'm out, like, I go do fun things with them. I go to, you know, beer gardens and I'm on playgrounds with little kids. It keeps you young. She is in a very adult world. Even if you looked at her brothers and her sisters, they. I felt like I was at a retirement community. I felt like we were sitting at the lawn at like a retirement place with all of the older people and there were two younger people there. They kind of were over to the side, if you recall. Yes. And they didn't really. I don't feel like they interacted at all with them. So even maybe they tried to get some young energy in, but it ended up they ended up really not being part of the program at all. And you know, I also think that we didn't see a lot of the hometown dates. It was a really quick episode. It was a one hour episode with three hometowns. You didn't really get a sense of what they did other than meeting each other, meeting the families. And I'm sure they had some, they did something else.

[B]

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[C]

July, I mean, no, never. Like, I, I, I like to shop, actually. I like to shop on Christmas Eve because I find it to be a little more festive.

[B]

But you like to start decorating right after Halloween?

[C]

No, after Thanksgiving. Okay, that's different. That's different. Halloween? No, not Halloween.

[B]

You know, I consider myself to be a pretty good gift giver. I've got my list and I've checked.

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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I'm actually glad they only did three hometowns because of that reason. I think if they had four, it would have felt very crushed.

[A]

Yeah, nothing out of it. I think we've had that problem anyway. I think we. I feel like I haven't seen any of the relationships unfold this season. I feel like I've missed whole conversations that I should have had. Like for example, with, with Cindy. Like, she's so invested in him. I'm like, she just like, like all of a sudden like love him. She must have had had some really good interactions with him. And she's alluded to it. Like she's had great conversations.

[C]

Did you ask her, did you ask her that when you interviewed her?

[A]

I don't think we ever asked that. She certainly alluded that they had. In fact, I think she volunteered it. I remember her saying we, we had great conversations. It flowed very easily. They laughed like they, you know, she definitely alluded to that. We never saw this with really almost anybody unless they had a one on one date. We never saw their little five minute things that we know happen all the time during dates and during the mansion. I mean at the mansion, even like before rose ceremonies. Those are really important conversations. We saw almost none of them.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, that's true. We never, I don't think we've seen any rose ceremony.

[B]

No, I don't remember conversations.

[C]

Just like we're at the rose ceremony. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

All of a sudden we're standing in front of the pool.

[C]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

I know. True.

[C]

Oh my God.

[A]

I've seen very little. There's no.

[C]

Yeah, there's no like on this season. And I don't like, there's no like last minute conversation of like someone trying to save themselves. Someone like, you know. Well, we don't get any of that.

[B]

Yeah, I'd be interested to see more of the conversations because I feel like I, I was thinking about this watching the Fantasy Suite episode, which we'll get into because I'd love to hear your thoughts on Peg in the episode. But I feel like Mel is very locked in. He gives them their undivided attention. I mean, not like he's got his phone that he could look at anyway, but like when they're talking, like he is looking at them. He is engaged in what they are saying. But I. You. He's not a very open person emotionally. Like, he's just not. And so I. I'm wondering, like, are those conversations even there for us to see? Or, like. Like, why aren't we seeing them? Is kind of, I guess, my question.

[A]

Such a good question, because you think, like, these are all smart women. They're. They. And they have been around the block. All of them, except for one, has been married before, so they've had, like, deep relationships. So are they really falling in love with him without actually getting to know him? Like, actually getting more from him? I feel like he's probably giving, getting, giving more than what we're seeing. I just think maybe it was produced in a way that for some reason, we didn't see that much from. I'm hoping that's what it is. I feel like we are all like, oh, God, Mel doesn't have a lot to give, or he's not giving. He's very, very reserved. Or maybe he's just not even into any of these women. Like, you just don't know what to think because we're not seeing any of these conversations. We need to have them.

[B]

I agree. And I'm going like, you are. I'm going off the women thinking, like, all right, these are. These are smart, accomplished women. Like, there's no way. They're all just, like, saying, I'm ready to have a life with this guy without him giving them anything. But we're also seeing them start to push back. So there is that kind of balance.

[A]

Yeah, there is. You're right. Some of the ones now, as they're getting like, this. Oh, this could be real. They are pushing back a little bit and saying, I need to know how you feel about me. Because they don't want to take that leap of faith and really fall in love or really. I mean, even if they are, they're holding back a little bit. And, you know, as long as you hold back and don't say it, you can kind of almost undo it in your heart or in your head. But once you say it, it's out there and it's hard to undo.

[C]

As a former lead who's a success story, what are some of the. Like, what are some of the good things Mel's doing? Like, what are you watching? You're like, oh, that's smart. Like, you should. Should be doing that.

[A]

So I actually think you shouldn't say I love you to more than one person. And it's really, really hard not to Give that back. When somebody says, I'm falling in love with you or I'm in love with you, you're like, like, what do you say? It's so awkward. You say like, oh, thanks or, oh, that's really sweet. Thanks for telling me or whatever. And anything you say is less than what they just said. So you are not giving a lot back. So he. Although I don't particularly think he's doing it well, he is doing it and I have to applaud him for that because it's very hard to do. Gary had the opposite problem. He just told everybody he loved him or the last three. And that got him in more trouble than I think what Mel's getting in by not saying it. So I applaud him for that. I also, just like you said, Serena, I think he is. So he gives them their. His undivided attention and he asks questions. The problem is he doesn't answer any questions or he answers them in a very like one or two word or one sentence answers. But he does ask questions. In fact, he found out really important things, like when he talked to Nicole and he said, where do you see yourself in five years? Well, she talked about her career, making money. So he had a really good idea, like he needed to send her home. She wasn't there for the right reasons. So he's asking good questions. He's just not answering them. So I, I applaud him for not being overly emotional. I. Or at least going down the path of I love you or like, you're the one kind of thing that Gary has done and lots of leads have done. But I do think he is doing such a. And I also think he's doing such a good job of like, finding out what he needs to know.

[B]

I agree. I agree. He's very inquisitive. He definitely is like a data collector is how he strikes me. Like he's trying to get. He. He keeps using terminology like educated guests and things like that. He's trying to collect as much information to make a decision. He's just like so insanely left brain dominant. It's wild to watch.

[A]

You're so true. So, so true. And I also think he's pretty good in his interviews. Like, he, he, like, he says very nice things about the women, like about their energy or about how smart they are or about how they make him feel. So to the camera, he's able to give us some emotion a little bit. He's unable to give it to them.

[C]

Well, I mean, we saw at the women tell all that. All the women like him. Like, no one had anything bad to say about him.

[A]

Not a thing. I know.

[C]

So he's definitely doing. He's definitely doing something right out of.

[A]

Really is.

[C]

Out of all the women. Let's. Let's pretend Mel picks no one at the end. So a peg in Cindy are included in this equation. Who would you choose to be the next golden Bachelorette?

[A]

So I have two that I would choose. Okay. So for. Well, maybe even three. So the first one I would say is Debbie. I love having someone completely different, and I think that we need a little shakeup.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

So bachelor Nation needs a little shakeup and to have an older person that's never been married. Um, so I know how it be. How it is to be single at this age now, and it's not fun. The rest of the world are couples. So I think she brings a different perspective to, you know, like, to the dating world that we don't really know that well because, you know, we are in a world of couples. It's. She's existed for 60. Over 60 years not being a couple. So I think she brings an interesting. Interesting perspective, and I kind of like that. And I think Bachelor Nation needs a little bit of shakeup. My other. My second one is I really love Terry, and I know that that's probably an outlier a little bit. I think that she's just very kind. And you saw that at women Tell All. She kind of came to people's rescue, like. Like, she was complimentary of Nicole, which very few people were. And I. I just think she's funny. I mean, I thought she had that puffet puppet that was just funny. Funny. And I love that she, like, could just make fun of herself and just be goofy. I also think she's extremely bright. She's a dentist, and I think she's beautiful. And you know what? She's 72 years old. No one would ever know. Can you believe that?

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that. Wow.

[A]

I know. And I think that we kind of liked a little bit of an older bachelor or bachelorette. Everybody loved Gary, and they love that he was more of, like a grandfather figure, that he was a little in the older age bracket, that he was a little more fuddy duddy, that he was a little like, you think, oh, he needs us to find him love. He's never going to find it on his own. I think we like the idea.

[C]

Yeah. That's so true.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure if Terry gives that same energy, but I like that She's a little bit older, so they could cast some older men for her.

[B]

Okay, so question. Are you one of those people that starts your holiday shopping in like, July?

[C]

July? I mean, never. Like, I, I, I like to shop, actually, I like to shop on Christmas Eve because I find it to be a little more festive.

[B]

But you, like, start decorating right after Halloween?

[C]

No, after Thanksgiving. Okay, that's different. That's different. Halloween? No, not Halloween.

[B]

You know, I consider myself to be a pretty good gift giver. I've got my list and I've checked.

[C]

It twice, probably three times. She takes the holidays very seriously.

[B]

I can't help it. You know, I love finding the perfect gifts for everyone. And Walmart has all the top brands. Nespresso, Sonos, Nintendo.

[C]

Nintendo at Walmart. Who knew?

[B]

I know. And more. All of your shopping in one place.

[C]

How much more shopping? Oh, boy.

[B]

Just saying. Get all the brands everyone loves at Walmart. Head to Walmart.com or download the Walmart app to get all your gifts this season.

[E]

You know that big bargain detergent jug is 80% water, right? It doesn't clean as well.

[A]

80% water? I thought I was getting a better deal because it's so big.

[E]

If you want a better clean, Tide pods are only 12% water. The rest is pure, concentrated cleaning ingredients.

[B]

Oh, let me make an announcement.

[A]

Attention shoppers, if you want a real deal, try Tide pods.

[E]

Stop paying for watered down detergents. Pay for clean. If it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be Tide pods. Water content based on the leading bargain liquid detergent on the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders, who is 84 years old, has spent 34 years in Congress and he can still pack a rally with people a quarter of his age.

[C]

Denver, 34,000 people come out.

[D]

Salt Lake City, 20,000 people. You know, huge turnouts. People are really dissatisfied about the status quo.

[E]

His Fighting Oligarchy tour with AOC and other young progressives has become a movement. But is his message too far to the left? Well, he certainly doesn't think so.

[D]

Does that sound like a radical idea, Katie?

[A]

Is that too far left for you?

[E]

Okay, okay, I get your point, Bernie. We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and of course the government shutdown, not to mention the current state of the Democratic Party.

[C]

To me, the failure of the Democratic.

[D]

Party has been an unwillingness to recognize the real issues.

[E]

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Next Question with Katie Couric. And listen, now.

[D]

On the podcast Health Stuff we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

[A]

Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Walley, a double board certified physician.

[D]

And I'm Hari Kondabolu, a comedian and someone who once googled do I have scurvy at 3am on health stuff, we're.

[A]

Talking about health in a different way.

[D]

It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also.

[A]

What our health says about us and the way we're living.

[D]

Like our episode where we look at.

[A]

Diabetes in the United states. I mean 50% of Americans are pre diabetic.

[D]

How preventable is type 2?

[A]

Extremely. Or our in depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

[D]

Oh, it's hard to explain to rest of the world that like your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible. But like you don't even know.

[A]

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[D]

You don't know.

[A]

It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in.

[D]

Listen to health stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

All I know is what I've been told and that to Half Truth is a whole lie.

[F]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[A]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[F]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[C]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[F]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[D]

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff.

[A]

That y' all said.

[B]

They literally made me say that I.

[E]

Took a match and struck and threw it on her.

[A]

They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[F]

From Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[D]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[F]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[A]

You almost want somebody that needs help, of course, like Diane. How about Diane like, in the world. She was so, so, so cute. Maybe she would be a great one. I mean, we want somebody that we are rooting for, and we need that in the next Bachelorette.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, good point.

[B]

What did you think about the Fantasy Suite episode?

[A]

Well, I feel like we have a cliffhanger. Obviously, we don't know what happens with Cindy. I think the Peg part of the date was kind of funny. I think she learned something about him and about kind of how cautious he is. So, you know, like, we'll. We'll touch on Fantasy Suite, but I just bought the date part. He was. He was driving like an old man, and she has the absolute opposite energy. She likes going fast, and she likes. Like, she's even trying to get him to go fast. She's, like, hooping and hollering and, like. Yeah. And he's still, like, just driving like this, like, slowly in. In the go, in the golf, in the cart. So I do feel a little like she learned something about him that maybe she thought was true, but now she really got a taste of it. Like, he doesn't even drive fast in an atv, like on a tropical island.

[B]

It's funny because Jared Freed was on the podcast, and he said something that kind of stuck with me when talking about Peg, which he was like, I'm sure Mel is good for Peg in certain ways. But he was like, peg is good for Mel. Like, she is. He. She is going to be someone that, like, really just, like, pulls him out of his shell and, like, picks him up and is like, let's go kind of thing.

[A]

I think you're right.

[C]

The morning after the Fantasy Suite was the first time we saw Mel.

[B]

Oh, my God. He was, like, blushing. I was like, what went down last?

[A]

Say, I think they had fun.

[C]

I mean, he was.

[A]

That was. That.

[C]

That was the happiest I've seen him.

[B]

Oh, 100 for sure.

[C]

He was like.

[A]

And most comfortable. Like, he was so comfortable. Like, I felt like, okay, we're getting a glimpse at maybe the Mel that they've been seeing, but we haven't been seen at all.

[B]

Yeah, he was, like, laying back in his jeans on the bed, just lounging. I was like, okay, Mel.

[A]

Although I think I felt like he was the same way when they did the photo shoot for People magazine. I think it was People. So when they did the photo shoot on the beach, I think he likes being shirtless because he was so comfortable on that beach because he was shirtless the whole time. I think he likes showing off him. He has a great physique. So I think maybe maybe he feels comfortable showing off.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

Okay, so, you know, the ATV part happens with Peg and Mal. What did you think about kind of their night conversation?

[A]

Night conversation. Again, kind of not super telling. He held back a lot. And this is the point in the season where I feel like when you get down to the final two, you need to be, like, brutally honest. And I don't think he is being yet. I think he still gives himself this free pass to hold back and someone needs to call him on it. And Peg did not. I feel like Cindy might. We don't. She's looking a little like. Like we kind of had this cliffhanger with her. Him not giving her what she needed and her, like, looking at him a little sideways like. Like, this is your. This is taking too long. I don't know if I can, you know, keep investing. Peg gave him a free pass, but.

[C]

Do you think Peg. You think Peg may have asked him when the cameras went down in fantasy suites?

[A]

I do, yeah. And I think maybe he's more comfortable talking in fantasy suites, which is the reason fantasy suites are so important. I think that, first of all, I think they're very odd. Fantasy suites are because it's just. I mean, everything you do in the show is abnormal. Dating, this is particularly abnormal. Like, when do you ever announce to an entire millions of people that you're going to go and have a physical relationship with? So we're going to close the store, and we might have a physical relationship right now. And it's just so uncomfortable. I feel like I shouldn't. I don't belong there. I don't want to know about it. I. It's. I. It's very uncomfortable to me. But the other part about fantasy suites that is really important is that you do get to close the door and the cameras go away and you can have the conversations you need to have. Which was why I, like, had fantasy suites without a bed. Not that a bed really makes a difference. I mean, you can do it anywhere. But, I mean, it was just. It was a statement. It was a statement to the person I was with that we're not doing this. Yeah.

[B]

And a visual cue to the audience.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. But that those behind the door conversations are super important because if you want to say something that you don't want the whole world to know, first of all, your family didn't sign up to go on national TV and have everything about your life revealed. So you need to talk families. You need to talk, you know, other parts of Your life, not just like you right there in this moment, falling in love with you. There's. You have a whole world, a whole life you left behind that you need to talk about. You need to talk finances, you took religion, you need to talk all those things. So fantasy seats are important. And that's the thing that I think is important about them. I think though, the thought of. So this is a leap of faith. There's no way that you come to the end of this journey 100% sure of the person.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm not sure why you have to answer every question, like the physical question part of this. Now, obviously that needs to work. You need to have chemistry. You should probably know that you have chemistry at this point and that, you know, finishing it off, making sure it all works, should not. Doesn't have to be part of this journey. Like the leap of faith that, you know, some things don't need to be answered and you can figure that out, you know, in the next couple of weeks or next couple months or whatever. And, you know, lots of people don't work and it's not because of the physical thing. There's other things that you're going to find out. So I don't know. I feel like the fantasy suite is a good time for people that are uncomfortable having conversations about their emotions. They do happen there. And I feel like Peg got something from that one. She just didn't get a physical encounter. I feel like she got what she needed because she woke up happy as can be.

[C]

Do you think she's, do you think she's into him? Like, do you think Peg's into him?

[A]

Yeah, I kind of feel like, you know what, they had such a friend energy at their one on one date. It didn't feel romantic even like when they were watching Casey and the Sunshine Band and they were dancing, I, I felt like they're like, I'm not sure. Peg is a romantic person and I don't think Mel is a romantic person. So I think the two of them are not romantic people together. I think as romantic as they can possibly get and as in love as they can be. On tv, we saw in the bedroom. We saw that next morning.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What did you think of Cindy and the Stingrays and their night portion?

[A]

Once again, Mel, like not a super fun happy, which is kind of interesting.

[B]

Because I feel like he's presented himself to be like Mr. Activity, Mr. Adventure.

[C]

Well, he's, he's, he's sports, you know, and there's, and there's I took it. There's. There's rules in sports and, you know, the way the game's played where, like.

[B]

Definitely a risk adverse person. Both like, in his activities so much in his relationships. Like, he is someone that likes certainty and predictability, just both through the activities and in the romantic conversations he's having.

[C]

Yeah, there's more, like, so true in football. Yeah. Like, you have more control. There's, like, there's. There's rules to the game where you drop me in the middle of the ocean with, like, stingrays.

[B]

You might not be that.

[D]

I wouldn't want.

[C]

I mean, I. I wouldn't like that.

[B]

You would not know.

[C]

I wouldn't like it.

[A]

You wouldn't like it. I did it with guy. I had sharks and stingrays and they're like jumping there. I'm like, I'm not jumping in there. And they're like, it's safe. And I'm like, all right, I'll jump in there. So I jumped in and I had a great time. It actually was really fun. You know, Once again, the idea of a leap of faith is going to be a problem for Mel. This was a leap of faith. Like, I'm going to trust these people that have done this. They said we've done. They've been doing this for 24 years, and we've never had anybody get stung. Okay. We've never had an incident. He still had a hard time taking that leap of faith. A lot of life is leaps of faith. You just try it and you hope it works out. I'm worried. Just like you said, he's risk adverse. I kind of call him leap of faith adverse. And that's really hard on the show. Like, you have to be a little braver. And he's shown it multiple times. He's shown it with the atving. He showed it with the stingrays. He just doesn't like doing things that make him uncomfortable. And a lot of this is uncomfortable. Like you're hoping that the risk is worth the reward. And I don't feel like he is a risky guy.

[C]

Do you think he gets down on one knee at the end?

[A]

I think it's going to be hard. He has not. Does.

[B]

You don't think he's going to.

[C]

No. Just based off of everything that you're saying is kind of how I. I agree with what you're saying, and I just. I don't think. I think he looks at it like that's. That's too unrealistic for me.

[A]

It's. He's Absolutely, unequivocally has said, I'm not in love with either one of you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

He's literally said it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like I am not there yet. I don't know what's to come, but I'm not there right this second. He's absolutely said it. I can imagine between fantasy suites and what there's usually like two or three days or maybe four days in between the first fantasy suite, then the second one. Meeting families, meeting his family and getting down on one knee. You only have a few days. They're in that few day period right now. Yeah, Yeah. I have a hard time seeing him falling in love and proposing.

[C]

Yeah, I, I agree.

[A]

Yeah. But if he does, if he does.

[B]

It, I support him either way. But I'll be surprised if he proposes.

[C]

My guess is, Peg, they don't get engaged and they date after the show.

[B]

Do you think if that's what happens, they're still together today?

[C]

I think there's. I think they could. Yeah, I think they're still together.

[A]

I think if that. I think if he does. To my opinion, if he doesn't get engaged, he's gonna be a really popular guy when this show finishes airing and he won't end up with anybody from the season. He's gonna have a lot of women going after him and I feel like he'll like that attention.

[C]

Wow. Okay.

[D]

What do you think?

[A]

And I didn't say that in a mean way because I, I totally get that. He's a great looking guy. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What do you think?

[B]

I don't know. I honestly don't know. I feel like to me, I've always said throughout the season, him and Cindy have this very giddy, like, almost like young, cute, flirty energy between them. I feel like it's the most like soft and romantic I've seen him throughout the season, which makes me feel inclined that that's where he's going to go. I mean, like, Peg's my girl. I literally love her. But that if we're talking, if we're thinking romance, I think Cindy is romance. I think Cindy's the fit. But I, I don't think Mel is making a decision off of feelings and romance as much as he is, like, logic for.

[A]

And you're right about that reason.

[C]

For whatever reason, I just have like, since the beginning, I'm like, it's not gonna be Cindy. I don't know why. I think, I think she's great. I just, I think it's. I think it's the edit. Whatever the edit is doing that I'm just picking up and I'm just like, I just don't think it's going to be her. I think, like, we are supposed to think, like, it should be her, but it's not. But I could be totally wrong. I might just be misreading this.

[B]

I think they're setting up the edit for a more shocking heartbreak with Cindy than they would with Peg.

[C]

That's what I. Yeah, that's what I'm reading, too, but I don't know.

[A]

Which then makes me think it's not going to be Peg. Like, I just feel like they're doing this just because we had the cliffhanger with Cindy. So then it makes me feel like I don't. I don't know, but I do. I. I do like what you said, Serena, about, like, that little bit of romance. Because, like I said, I feel like they're. He and Peg are really playful. I don't see any. A lot of romance there at all, honestly. Just because I don't think either one of them are particularly romantic people. I think she's super fun. I think he has a hard time giving, but I did really was very surprised at the date where they did on that Butterfly mountain where he was so spiritual. He was so into all of those individual dates with the women. Totally shocked me. So maybe there is something with he and Cindy because I feel like maybe she's more. I don't know, maybe not spiritual, but certainly more introspective and that that might be a better match for him than Peg.

[C]

Maybe. Maybe we're all just reading way too much into this.

[A]

We know.

[B]

Too much.

[A]

You know, it's hard. It's hard.

[C]

I think we might be doing that. Joan, it was a pleasure talking to you. So great.

[A]

You too, guys.

[C]

Next time you're in New York, hopefully we see you other than. Yeah, thank you.

[A]

I'll text you guys.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Thanks for having me.

[C]

Of course. And to all our listeners, thank you guys for tuning in to Bachelor happy Hour. Make sure you download and subscribe to the podcast.

[B]

We'll have new and exclusive recaps and interviews coming your way. Thanks for listening. Bye. I consider myself to be a pretty good gift giver. I've got my list.

[C]

Checked it twice, probably three times. She takes the holidays very seriously.

[B]

I can't help it, you know, I love finding the perfect gifts. And Walmart has all the top brands. Nespresso, Sonos, Nintendo.

[C]

Nintendo at Walmart. Who knew?

[B]

I know. And more.

[C]

Get all the brands everyone loves at Walmart. Head to Walmart.com or download the Walmart app to get all your gifts this season. What's that sound? That's the sound of Downy unstoppable scent beads going into your washing machine and giving your clothes freshness that lasts all day long.

[A]

There it is again.

[D]

It's like music to your ears.

[C]

Or more like music to your nose.

[D]

That freshness is irresistible.

[C]

Let's get a Downy Unstoppables bottle shake.

[D]

And now a sniff solo. Nice.

[C]

With Downy Unstoppables, you just toss wash wow.

[D]

For all day freshness.

[E]

On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders and we've talked many times over the years and today he even throws a few questions my way.

[D]

All right, are you ready for another question?

[A]

Go ahead, hit me, Bernie.

[E]

We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and of course, the government shutdown. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[F]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[D]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[F]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever, wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[A]

I knew it was a bomb the second that it exploded. I felt it rip through me.

[C]

In season two of Rip Current, we ask who tried to kill Judy Berry and why they were climbing trees and.

[D]

They were sabotaging logging equipment in the woods.

[A]

She received death threats before the bombing.

[C]

You receive more threats after the bombing.

[D]

I think that this is a deliberate.

[B]

Attempt to sabotage our movement.

[C]

Episodes of Rip Current Season 2 are available now. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast.