Joe & Serena on Clout Chasers and Wrong Reasons

Summary

Bachelor Happy Hour: Joe & Serena on Clout Chasers and Wrong Reasons

Podcast: Bachelor Happy Hour | Hosts: Joe Amabile & Serena Pitt | Date: December 4, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, newlywed hosts Joe Amabile and Serena Pitt guide listeners through hot takes, spicy questions, and thoughtful reflections on the evolution of the Bachelor franchise. With signature humor and honesty, the hosts discuss controversies, fan theories, the impact of social media, and the motivations—both romantic and strategic—behind contestants’ decisions to join the show. The episode offers a behind-the-scenes glimpse into Bachelor Nation, balances nostalgia with critical thinking, and challenges perceptions of clout chasing and authenticity in reality TV.

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Segment 1: Hot Takes ([03:59]-[26:22])

Joe and Serena rapid-fire their reactions to some of Bachelor Nation’s most divisive opinions, analyzing seasons, casting, and franchise “what-ifs.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Best Bachelor Season Debate

  • Juan Pablo's Season:
    Serena: "I think what people love about Juan Pablo season is... it was the first Bachelor season where they made the lead the villain... but to me, it doesn’t stand out." ([05:24])
    Joe: "I've never watched Juan Pablo's season, so I disagree too."
  • Clayton’s Season:
    Serena: "So many new iconic moments came out of that season... He made so many really controversial choices..."
    Joe: "Bottom line is... you can say, think what you want about Clayton. It was never boring. And that's... really important." ([06:40])

• Barb Was Right about Peter and Madison

  • Serena: "From what I know about Maddie and what I know about Peter, those are two of the most incompatible people I could think of in my entire life. And maybe Barb's delivery... was controversial, but... she was right." ([07:27])

• Rachel Recchia as Solo Bachelorette

  • Serena: "She could have done it and would have been successful. ...But I think what makes Rachel and Gabby so interesting... is that they were Bachelorettes together." ([08:57])
  • Joe: "I would tell her probably to do it herself." ([09:21])

• Nick Viall Joining Caitlyn’s Season Midway

  • Joe: "People still talk about it... When this franchise goes by the playbook... that’s when people usually fall off and it gets somewhat boring." ([10:11])

• Group Dates Should Be Smaller

  • Joe: "I don’t like watching a lot of people on my TV... sometimes it's just too many." ([11:24])
  • Serena: "If you reduce it to 4-5 people, there’s going to be a lot of people every week... that don’t get dates." ([11:43])

• Fantasy Suites Timing

  • Serena & Joe: Both disagree about moving fantasy suites earlier; see keeping them exclusive as essential for drama and TV structure. ([12:15])

• Tia Booth as Bachelorette

  • Joe: "Just as much as I should have been the Bachelor."
  • Serena: "It’s still very surprising to me that she never ended up being the Bachelorette." ([12:52])

• Mel as Golden Bachelor

  • Joe: "If you’re looking for a perfect individual to look up to, you probably shouldn’t look at people that go on reality TV." ([14:12])
  • Serena: "He went on a podcast, said something careless… but it gathered a lot of hype and attention... let the man be free." ([13:30])

Notable Quotes

• "People that are aiming to find a perfect person to look up to are gonna fail every single time." – Serena ([14:21])
• "The show is fun and exciting when... someone is willing to bend the rules to shake things up." – Serena ([10:59])

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Segment 2: Who’s Who? ([26:22]-[38:29])

Joe and Serena compare themselves to other Bachelor couples and reflect on their unique place in franchise history, before tackling fun hypotheticals about casting and overlooked fan favorites.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Relationship Parallels

  • They debate whose story resembles theirs (Hannah & Dylan? Jade & Tanner?), ultimately deciding:
    Joe: "No one’s like us." ([28:02])

• Favorite Bachelor

  • Serena & Joe, enthusiastically: "Clayton. Clayton was the best." ([35:47])
  • Joe: "He just did things that not one other person would ever even consider doing." ([35:55])

• Overrated Fan Favorites & Hidden Villains

  • Both refuse to name names, keeping Bachelor Nation drama at bay:
    Joe: "I'm not going to be like, hey, this person everyone thinks is great... they kind of suck." ([37:13]) Serena: "No, I'm not answering that either." ([37:35])

• Who Could Have Been a Standout on Paradise

  • Serena: "Rachel Nonce... would have been fun to see their friendship [with Leia]." ([37:49])

Notable Quotes

• "The comparison game is so hard. Like, I don't know how people ever... compare themselves to others. Everyone is so different." – Serena ([29:32])

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Segment 3: Spicy Questions ([38:29]-[47:36])

The hosts go deeper with frank talk about fan behavior, “clout chasers,” and what’s changed in Bachelor Nation with the rise of social media.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

• Message for Bachelor Fans

  • Serena: "Stop leaving hate comments, guys... some of them you could text your mom, some of them you could text your best friend, and some of you should probably delete social media." ([38:41])

• Bachelor Tea

  • Both agree there’s less secret drama behind the scenes nowadays; “our season of Paradise... a lot of the tea that would be kept behind the scenes made it onto the beach.” ([39:40])

• Social Media’s Rise: The Good & Bad

  • Serena: "I actually don’t think clout chasers joining the show is tied to social media... I think it’s always been there, but it’s taken on a new shape." ([41:41])
  • On the downside: "People are so scared of being eaten apart on the Internet... you want to see someone be like, ‘this is who I am, and defend their choice,’ and we don’t see that as much." ([42:23])
  • Joe: "People care about how they come across on social media, so they're more hesitant... not as willing to... put themselves out there as much because of backlash." ([42:42])

• Clout Chasing: Wrong Reasons?

  • Serena thinks less than people suspect are there "just for clout."
  • Joe: "I think 90% [come for clout]." ([45:09])
  • Serena: "I was gonna say, like, 15-20% max." ([45:16])
  • Both reflect on blurred lines between pursuing love, fame, and opportunity:
    Joe: "If you get cast... there’s only a select few every season... with the hopes and dreams of marrying the lead."
    Serena: "But what about the alternative of, like, if I end up with them, great, but this is just a really cool experience—that's clout?" ([45:31])

Notable Quotes

• "The right reason is to go on the show because you want to be engaged and get married. And I think 90% of the people that come on agree before they even know who the fucking lead is." – Joe ([45:42])
• "The percentage of people that go on the show to make a career out of social media... I'd say that's a lot lower. I'd say that's probably like 40%." – Joe ([46:26])

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Memorable Moments

• Joe’s Haircut Anxiety
  Lighthearted banter at the start humanizes the hosts:
  “Okay, guys, if you’re wondering what Joe’s thinking about this whole podcast, it’s just... his upcoming haircut.” – Serena ([04:59])

• Meta Commentary on Reality TV
  “If you’re looking for a perfect individual to look up to, you probably shouldn’t look at people that go on reality TV.” – Joe ([14:12])

• Refusing to Name Villains and Overrated Favorites
  Demonstrates loyalty and tact:
  “We're not answering that. I’m not gonna be like... they kind of suck.” – Serena ([37:13])

• On the Changing Nature of Villainy & Fame
  Joe: "In the early 2010s, the villain... went to the bar and he’s crushing it. Now you're a villain, and we f—ing hate you." ([43:40])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Start of Main Content: [03:59]
• Hot Takes Segment: [04:02]-[26:22]
• Who’s Who Segment: [26:22]-[38:29]
• Spicy Questions Segment: [38:29]-[47:36]
• Social Media & Clout Discussion: [41:28]-[47:36]
• Debate: Clout Chasers vs Wrong Reasons: [44:29]-[47:36]

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Tone & Language

The episode maintains a conversational, teasing, and honest tone. Joe and Serena's openness, willingness to “disagree agreeably,” and insider perspective make it engaging for diehard fans and new listeners alike. Both are self-aware and candid, poking fun at themselves while addressing the complications of reality TV fame with nuance and empathy.

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In Summary

Joe and Serena infuse Bachelor Happy Hour with wit and warmth, challenging the audience to rethink what motivates contestants and how the franchise has evolved in a social media-driven world. They don’t shy away from controversy, but always lean toward compassion and context—making for a smart and entertaining listen for anyone curious about The Bachelor universe.

Transcript

[Narrator/Ad Voice]

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[Serena]

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[Joe]

Checked it twice, probably three times. She takes the holidays very seriously.

[Serena]

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[Joe]

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[Joe]

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[Joe]

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[Serena]

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[Joe]

Hey everyone. Welcome back to Bachelor Happy Hour. I'm Joe.

[Serena]

And I'm Serena.

[Joe]

And we are here today with another episode, Bachelor Happy Hour. This is a special episode. We have three segments. We are going to be doing Segment one, Hot Takes. We're going to read out all the Bachelor hot takes. Segment two, who's who? Segment three, Spicy Questions. Neither Serena and I have gone through any of these, so it's going to be brand new to us, too. That's the way we like to do things. Keep it fun, keep it fresh, keep it alive.

[Serena]

I love that. Yes. Great. Great start. Great energy.

[Joe]

Thank you. Thank you. Anything you want to get off your chest before we get started?

[Serena]

No, I'm ready. Let's dive into it.

[Joe]

Okay. All right. I have to get a haircut today.

[Serena]

I know.

[Joe]

It's still on the top of my mind. I know I never get.

[Serena]

Is that why you asked me what I have coming up so that you can talk about your haircut?

[Joe]

Yeah, you know What? It's a 4:30pm haircut and usually I get my haircuts at 9 or 10am so just throwing me way off and I'm. The anxiety is really ramped up now.

[Serena]

Okay, guys, if you're wondering what Joe's thinking about this whole podcast, it's just.

[Joe]

His upcoming haircut Segment one, Hot takes. The best Bachelor season to date is Juan Pablo's.

[Serena]

Are we saying if we agree or disagree?

[Joe]

I mean. Yeah. Do we agree or disagree?

[Serena]

I disagree.

[Joe]

I've never watched Juan Pablo season, so I disagree too.

[Serena]

I did watch Juan Pablo's season. Now it's been a few years since the season, so I wouldn't say my memory of it is fantastic, but I think what people love about Juan Pablo season is it's one of the only. Or not the only, but I would say it was the first Bachelor season where they made the lead the villain. They said, f this guy, we don't like him, and we're gonna let everyone else hate him too. And that was, like, a fun twist for sure. And there was a lot of, like, iconic moments and a lot of iconic people that came from that season, but to me, it doesn't stand out. Maybe that's just because it's been so long since I watched it, but I don't think I would name it one of the best.

[Joe]

What would you. What would be yours?

[Serena]

My best season.

[Joe]

Yeah. Quick, we got a lot of these.

[Serena]

You know what? Like, maybe this is a hot take, but, like, Clayton season.

[Joe]

Me too. Yeah. There's no. There was no better Bachelor than Clayton.

[Serena]

No, like, there's so many new iconic moments came out of that season. So many unpredictable things. He made so many really controversial choices. I mean, Susie, Gabby, and Rachel, his top three were all incredible in their own right and have, like, really amazing moments from that season here.

[Joe]

Bottom line is. Bottom line is you can say, think what you want about Clayton. He's. It was never boring. And that's. That's just so. That's really important. Okay.

Barb was right all along about Peter and Madison. Well, I think that's not really a hot take because I think that's factual.

[Serena]

Like, we have evidence to prove that that take is correct. It's not really an opinion. It's a fact.

[Joe]

Yeah, I don't. I've met Madison Pruitt once. She was super sweet, nice. I. I'm friends with Pete, so I don't know Madison enough to know if that would have ever made sense. But knowing the content she puts out and.

[Serena]

Yeah, actually, I can't even believe you're debating this statement right now. Yeah, I guess I've never met Maddie Proulx. I have met Peter a bunch of times. From what I know about Maddie and what I know about Peter, those are two of the most incompatible people I could think of in my entire life. And maybe Barb's delivery of that information was very controversial and could have been done differently.

[Commercial/Ad Voice]

Sure.

[Serena]

But if her statement being that, like, this is not gonna work out, and I don't even know why we're entertaining it is the statement. We're debating 100% she was right, and I'm backing her on that.

[Joe]

Yeah. But it's not a hot take.

[Serena]

No. I don't know if I would consider that a hot take.

[Joe]

Rachel Recchia should have had her own Bachelorette season.

[Serena]

I don't know if I agree or disagree with that.

[Joe]

I, I.

I don't, because I just feel like.

Like I do. I think Rachel could have 100% had a season on her own.

[Serena]

Yes, I agree. She could have done it and would have been successful. She would have been a great lead on her own. She didn't need another person. But I think part of what makes Rachel and Gabby so interesting and exciting from a TV perspective is the fact that they were bachelorettes together, and that was the first and only time they've ever did that. And I think that adds to the lore and their story today.

[Joe]

Yeah. And it was how they navigated it. Yeah, I agree.

[Serena]

But do I think she, like, could have done her own season and still could do her own season and absolutely crush it? Yes, I do.

[Joe]

I think if we. Look, I think if, if, if you're able to go back in time, if Rachel was able to go back in time and they gave her the option. Do you, do you want to do this again? Do you want to do this with Gabby, or do you want to do it yourself?

I would tell her probably to do it herself.

[Serena]

Yeah, do it yourself. Do it yourself.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Serena]

I think that coming off of Clayton season, she could have carried her own season, but I think that her and Gabby together was a really exciting package. Do you think today, after doing all of the seasons she's done, she could be a good lead still?

[Joe]

I think if she couldn't, then there's something. Then there's something wrong with her.

[Serena]

Well, yeah, I mean, she's already done it, so she couldn't do it again.

[Joe]

She's done it. She's done the show.

[Serena]

She's done Bachelor. She's done Paradise. She's done Bachelorette.

[Joe]

She's done a Netflix show.

[Serena]

Yeah. Too hot to handle.

[Joe]

Yeah, she could definitely do it.

[Serena]

I mean, she's one of the more experienced reality television people in this franchise at this point.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah. Nick Viall should have never been allowed to join Caitlyn season midway.

No, I, I disagree with that. I Think he should have because we're. People still talk about that, like within the Bachelor nation verse that's like. People still talk about it. So. Yeah.

[Serena]

Yeah. Do I think if we're going, like, by the book, should he have been allowed? Probably not. I mean, like, he'd kind of been talking to her before and he jumped in midway. But I don't care. I'm okay that they did it and I have no problem with it. And I would tell them to do it again if they had the chance.

[Joe]

The truth is, when this franchise goes by the.

Bachelor playbook of like, how everything supposed to go in a perfect world and they do that, like season after season, that's when people usually fall off and it gets somewhat boring.

[Serena]

Yeah. The show is fun and exciting when either production or the lead or a castmate is willing to bend the rules to shake things up. And that doesn't always pay off in a big way, but when it does, it really does.

[Joe]

Yeah. Okay. Group dates should be four to five people max.

[Serena]

Disagreement.

[Narrator/Ad Voice]

You agree?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

Really? Why?

[Joe]

I don't like watching a lot of people on my tv.

[Serena]

You've never been on a group date, though.

[Joe]

I've never been on a group day. That's true. I. But I'm just saying, like, it's just sometimes it's just too many. It's like that show squid game and.

[Serena]

There'S all those squid game competitions.

[Joe]

Yeah. Like, I can't watch this. There's 800 contestants.

[Serena]

I get that. And especially in the beginning, you're like, I don't even know who I should focus my attention on because there's 12 people on this date. But if you reduce it to four to five people, there's going to be a lot of people every week in the beginning that don't get dates dates because the lead's not going to have time to go on six different group dates.

[Joe]

Well, yeah. And there's a lot of people that are on group dates at the beginning that I'm like, this person's just. It's a waste of time because the lead's not even into them.

[Serena]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe]

Fantasy suites should happen way earlier so they can have those off camera conversations earlier on to see if they're a good match.

[Serena]

Disagree. Yeah. No way.

[Joe]

No, no.

[Serena]

Well, also, like, this is a TV show. Like, you don't get off camera privileges until you've made it almost all the way to the end where it's like, all right. It's necessary for the potential success of a relationship and for these two people to Be willing to get engaged, but we're not giving off camera time until it's absolutely necessary.

[Joe]

Tia Booth should have been the Bachelorette. Agree just as much as I should have been the Bachelor. And we're. We're from the same. Me and Tiara are from the same era.

[Serena]

You are.

[Joe]

So those are. Those are 2. Two massive Ms. Opportun opportunities by the franchise.

[Serena]

Tia would have been a great Bachelorette. I actually. It's still very surprising to me that she never ended up being the Bachelorette.

[Joe]

Mel should have been replaced as the golden Bachelor.

[Serena]

I disagree.

[Joe]

I disagree, too. A. It worked. He's in a successful. Looks to be a successful relationship. If anything, I think they should have been less safe with Mel because it just. Everything about Mel and the way he appeared seemed extremely safe after what he had said. And I think they should have been like, all right, let's. Let's go.

[Serena]

I think so too. I think that he went on a podcast. He said something a little careless. There was huge controversy around it, which, I mean, it's kind of sometimes not the worst thing in the world. I mean, it gathered a lot of hype and attention surrounding the season. And then I feel like they pulled. Pulled the reins on him so tight for the entire season, and it's like, let the man be free. You know, I think that people make mistakes. Public figures make mistakes. People say stupid things every single day. I don't think we needed to, like, I mean, look, like, within reason, but this. Per this comment, I don't think we needed to, like, fire him over it. Yeah.

[Joe]

And also, like.

If you're looking for a perfect individual to look up to, you probably shouldn't look at people that go on reality tv.

[Serena]

Well, you're not gonna find a perfect person to look up to. People that are aiming to do that are gonna fail every single time. He's also. He ended up happily committed to Peg, who is not 40. So it all worked out.

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[Joe]

July? I mean, no, never. Like, I like to shop, actually. I like to shop. On Christmas Eve because I find it to be a little more festive.

[Serena]

But you like start decorating right after Halloween?

[Joe]

No, after Thanksgiving. Okay, that's different. That's different. Halloween? No, not Halloween.

[Serena]

You know, I consider myself to be a pretty good gift giver. I've got my list and I've checked.

[Joe]

It twice, probably three times. She takes the holidays very seriously.

[Serena]

I can't help it. You know, I love finding the perfect gifts for everyone. And Walmart has all the top brands. Nespresso, Sonos, Nintendo.

[Joe]

Nintendo at Walmart. Who knew?

[Serena]

I know. And more. All of your shopping in one place.

[Joe]

How much more shopping? Oh boy.

[Serena]

Just saying. Get all the brands everyone loves at Walmart. Head to Walmart.com or download the Walmart app to get all your gifts this season.

[Joe]

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[Commercial/Ad Voice]

Chapter 10 Ronan's eyes widened as the moon enveloped their secret sanctuary. Go, he warned. I'm losing control. Luna defiantly stepped forward, tracing the scar across his jaw. Then lose it, she whispered. She was ready. She has Nexplanon etinogestrel implant, 68mg radiopaque to prevent pregnancy. A non daily prescription birth control for women that goes in your arm and not in your uterus. Don't use nexplanon if you're pregnant or may be pregnant, have or had blood clots or certain cancers, have liver disease, liver tumor or unexplained vaginal bleeding. Once the implant is placed, you and your doctor should feel for it. If at any time you can't feel the implant, contact your doctor right away and use a non hormonal birth control method such as condoms. Removal of the implant may be difficult or impossible if it isn't where it should be. While uncommon ectopic pregnancy, pregnancy that occurs outside the womb can occur, which can cause serious internal bleeding, infertility and even death, you are likely to experience changes to your period. Ovarian cysts may occur and usually disappear. Nexplanon may raise the chance of serious blood clots, which can cause heart attacks, stroke or death, especially if you smoke or have other risk factors. Nexplanon doesn't protect against HIV or STDs. With less than one pregnancy per 100 women who use Nexplanon for one year, Nexplanon is over 99% effective. No matter the fantasy, talk to your doctor. Call 1-877-467-5266 or visit nexplanon.com for more information. Ask your doctor about Nexplanon Big things.

[Joe]

Are happening at your local CVS. Extra Big. So hurry on over because Extra big deals are here. These are deals so extra that they absolutely cannot be missed. And every two weeks there's going to be more. So you've got to keep coming back so you can keep on saving on all the brands and products you and your family use every day. And speaking of saving, extra care is the way to save at cvs. So use your extra Care card to unlock savings every time you shop. And if you're not a member yet, now is the time to join. And the best part? It's completely free. Just sign up online or in store and you'll start saving instantly. And always be sure to check the CVS Health app for deals and savings. Visit your local CVS store or cvs.com extra big deals to shop this week's deals and stock up on your favorite products.

Bachelor Pad should replace Bachelor in Paradise.

I'm going to say I disagree. A it's where we're from and B I think Bachelor Pad worked when it worked because there was like no Holtz Bar like it was. You had people know what like people. No Holds Bar. Isn't that a. That's a saying.

[Serena]

No Holds Bar.

[Joe]

Yeah, right. Isn't that a saying?

[Serena]

Maybe. I've never heard of it.

[Joe]

Nothing's out. Nothing was off the table. Okay. When Bachelor Pad was being well, there.

[Serena]

Was no social media. The biggest thing they had to deal with was like tabloids, and it was just a very, very different time in the world. I don't think what was created on bachelor pad could ever be recreated now today.

And I think that, you know, bachelor in paradise for us is very nostalgic there. We're biased. But it would make me sad if they cut bachelor in paradise replace with bachelor pad. And I also just don't know if it would. I think bachelor pad is a great concept, and I think that they can definitely.

[Joe]

They already did. I mean, they. They pulled some for this season of bachelor in paradise, but.

[Serena]

Yeah, you're right.

[Joe]

I don't. I didn't. This season of bachelor in paradise should have been on a beach. Like, they're on a beach, but they're off a beach. Like, put me back on a beach. That let the contestants live on a beach. No going back to the hotel room. No. I don't want.

[Serena]

Yeah. But I didn't mind it because my favorite part of paradise was all those in conversations. Yeah.

[Joe]

But they could still have those in the treehouses. And they could. They just never. They chose never to do that, but they could.

[Serena]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Daisy should have let Kelsey find out it was her instead of telling her.

I don't really remember that situation, if I'm gonna be quite honest.

[Serena]

So remember, Daisy was like, I'm pretty sure it's not me. And she went and told Kelsey, like, I think it's you. It's not me. And then they rode in that van together, and then Daisy went out, broke up with Joey, left, and then Kelsey went out and they proposed.

[Joe]

Yeah. Is that. That's what happened?

[Serena]

Yeah. And look, do I agree with that statement? Yes. But I really like Daisy, so it's hard for me to disagree because I think she had nothing but the purest of intentions.

[Joe]

Yeah. I think those situations. That's what makes the show interesting, is when people do something that they probably shouldn't have done.

[Serena]

Yeah. Like, so probably wasn't something she needed to do. But I think it's okay.

[Joe]

The bachelorette is more entertaining than the bachelor.

[Serena]

Disagree.

[Joe]

Disagree.

[Serena]

I just want to see a lot of girly pops.

[Joe]

Yeah. Like, because here's the. The truth.

And you see this. You even. You see this with golden is where I think it. It gets highlighted more. But.

When a season's boring.

The guys. When the guys are boring, they're boring tv. When the women are boring tv, they're not as boring. And that's why I choose that.

[Serena]

I agree.

[Joe]

Right.

[Serena]

Yep.

[Joe]

If a contestant is an aspiring musician, it's immediate grounds for elimination. I just think it depends how the person's handling that.

[Serena]

Yeah, I think it is hard because.

I don't know, that's tough. I think it's. It depends on the person. I think you gotta take that as a case by case situation.

[Joe]

I mean, what if, like I'm trying to be a violinist in the opera?

[Serena]

Yeah. Like, I think that's okay.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

You know, but if you're trying to.

[Joe]

Be like a country singer.

[Serena]

A country singer. And if you've been trying to be a country singer for 20 years and you live in Nashville and like that is your job in a way, I think that's one thing. If it's like I just quit my job in finance and I'm an aspiring country singer and now I'm on the Bachelor, I think that can be a little concerning for the potential longevity of the relationship post show.

[Joe]

Unless you're really talented. You know what? If you go on this show because there's a lot of fucking aspiring musicians that go on this show and I'm just like, you're fine, you're fine. You're. You're better than I am. You are better than most people at a karaoke bar. You're probably average in a bar in Nashville and you're fine, but you're not great. If you're great. If you're, you know, Mariah Carey. If you're Mariah Carey and you go on the show and you're on a.

[Serena]

Then the lead's going to be looking at them being like, I'm hitching my wagon to then go for it. Like, we're going to be at the Grammys in two years.

[Joe]

But if you're going to go on and you're an artist event, any sorts on this show and you're just starting, you better be amazing. Otherwise, yeah, you're probably going home because you're.

[Serena]

I feel like that's a hot take. It's fine if you're really talented, but if you're not, it's not fine. Yeah.

[Joe]

Because if you're not, you're not going to make it.

[Serena]

Look at me like I'm a meal ticket. Like, what's going on here?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

But I, I will say I think people can come on this show for incentive for their career and stay still, fall in love genuinely.

[Joe]

Yeah. Chris Bukowski is the all time Bachelor.

[Serena]

Nation legend.

I think. Yes. But I think it's hard. Like he would probably hit up a Mount Rushmore of non leads. Do you know what I mean? Like, if we're putting together a Mount Rushmore of best contestants that were never leads. He would definitely be on it. But Chris has been off camera for, like, 10 years now. You know what I mean? So there's a lot of people that have joined the viewership of this franchise that probably wouldn't know who he is. He was part of a very, like, concentrated 10 year period in the franchise, but iconic in his period for sure.

[Joe]

Yeah. I didn't watch when he came back on paradise for.

[Serena]

I think that's maybe the only season of his I did watch, and I.

[Joe]

Don'T think he was very Chris Bukowski ask on that season.

[Serena]

No, I don't remember him being like the Chris we know and love, but he did get engaged, and that's very Chris Bukowski of him.

[Joe]

Yeah. Segment two, who's who. Okay. Don't even know what we're doing here. Whose relationship storyline do you think is the most like yours?

[Serena]

Maybe Hannah and Dylan.

[Joe]

No, not even close.

[Serena]

I'm just trying to think of other paradise couples that got engaged on the show.

[Joe]

I would say the most like ours.

I would say.

I'm gonna go on Paradise.

[Serena]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Paradise couples the most like us.

The most like our story. I guess.

I don't know. I think. I think, like.

I don't know. I would go like, maybe, like, maybe Jade and Tanner.

[Serena]

Yeah.

[Joe]

But I don't even. I didn't see their season, so I'm just totally.

[Serena]

You didn't even see it.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

Okay. Maybe we don't have enough knowledge off the top of our head to answer that question. I think. I mean, I think.

Hannah and Dylan, but I mean, I think that.

They fall into a category that we also fall into, which is a pretty generic paradise love story of, like, a little, you know, someone goes on another date situation comes back.

[Joe]

Yeah, but ours is different because we.

[Serena]

We had a third party involved.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So unless someone had that, which I don't.

[Serena]

I don't think anyone did.

[Joe]

Yeah. All right.

[Serena]

No one's like us.

[Joe]

That's right, Serena. That's what I was trying to get to. That was my point. Serena, out of all the Bachelor nation. Out of all of bachelor nation, who do you think is most like Joe?

[Serena]

Oh, that's so hard. I really don't know. I don't know. Who do you think is most like you? I mean, Nick comes to mind a little bit. I think you and Nick have some similarities. I mean, definitely.

[Joe]

I mean, it's what you think. It's not what I think.

[Serena]

Well, what do you think?

[Joe]

I don't I? I don't know.

[Serena]

This is a co hosted podcast.

[Joe]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's phrase. Serena, out of all the best or nation, who do you think Joe is most? Like? I know that's a hard one.

[Serena]

You and Natasha are both Aries. You're like, the most different people, but you also are in, like, some ways are very similar.

[Joe]

Yeah, I don't know. That's a hard one. I mean, the same question is for me, who do I think you're most like? And I, I would have.

Like, okay, do we want to do this off of people that we know? So, like, we were friends with Nick, or do we want to do this to where, like, the past few seasons.

[Serena]

Like, who came across the most?

[Joe]

Who do you think came across the most? Like you or who are you most? If you had to pick, like, somebody that when you watch them. Yeah, it reminded you of me.

[Serena]

Those are just hard in different ways. Like.

[Joe]

And that's gonna be a wrap for the podcast because Serena's like, all right, we can move on.

[Serena]

I know. The comparison game is so hard. Like, I don't know how people ever, like, sit around and compare themselves to others. Like, everyone is so different from one another.

Okay, so question. Are you one of those people that starts your holiday shopping in, like, July?

[Joe]

July? I mean.

I like to shop. Actually, I like to shop on Christmas Eve because I find it to be a little more festive.

[Serena]

But you like to start decorating right after Halloween?

[Joe]

No, after Thanksgiving. Okay, that's different. That's different. Halloween? No, not Halloween.

[Serena]

You know, I consider myself to be a pretty good gift giver. I've got my list and I've checked.

[Joe]

It twice, probably three times. She takes the holidays very seriously.

[Serena]

I can't help it. You know, I love finding the perfect gifts for everyone. And Walmart has all the top brands. Nespresso, Sonos, Nintendo.

[Joe]

Nintendo at Walmart. Who knew?

[Serena]

I know. And more. All of your shopping in one place.

[Joe]

How much more shopping? Oh, boy.

[Serena]

Just saying. Get all the brands everyone loves at Walmart. Head to Walmart.com or download the Walmart app to get all your gifts this season.

[Joe]

Okay, listen, if you're even thinking about a vacation, I've got four words for you. Virgin Voyages. Caribbean Cruises. Because these cruises, they are totally next level. Honestly, you should book one right now to topline it. Beautiful destinations, best food at sea, and luxury that will make you wonder why you ever tolerated buffets and screaming children. You heard that, right? It's kid free. And just thinking about that is relaxing. We're talking about amazing destinations like Grand Cayman, Jamaica and Puerto Rico. Virgin even has its own private beach club in Bimini. I mean come on. Then there's the food. There are so many different options. All of them are quite literally multi award winning and with over a thousand bucks of luxury inclusions, the value is ridiculous. Wi fi, soda, 20 plus legit restaurants, group workouts and entertainment. No surprise charges, no nickel and diming. Just good times. They've got DJs, theme parties, live music. Something's always going on. And when you're ready to relax, your cabin is your sanctuary. Ocean views, private terrace, signature red hammock. Go check it [e-mail] or hit up your travel advisor. You deserve this.

[Narrator/Ad Voice]

Chapter 18 Prince Lorian's voice gently wakes you from your dreams of him.

[Joe]

I can't face one more sunset without you by my side. Come with me and I vow your desires will be my North Star forevermore.

[Narrator/Ad Voice]

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[Joe]

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Okay, we'll move on because I feel like this is going to take us another time.

[Serena]

Yeah, this question's making my hands sweat. Let's keep it going.

[Joe]

Whose proposal story is your favorite out of the entire franchise?

Yeah, fuck it.

Who is your favorite bachelor of all time?

Clayton.

[Serena]

Clayton.

[Joe]

Clayton.

[Serena]

Clayton.

[Joe]

Clayton was the best. He was.

[Serena]

He just did things that not one other person would ever even consider doing. And I appreciate that. And I do feel bad for the women that were on his season because. Because I think that they suffered in various ways. But he just gave us so many wild moments, and it gave them the opportunity to give us so many wild moments.

[Joe]

I also enjoy talking to him when he comes on this podcast. I enjoy talking. Like, he's got a lot to say.

[Serena]

He does have a lot to say. I also.

Zach Shallcross. I think it's a bad rep for being a boring bachelor, but I like him too. I think him and Katie are great and he's cool to hang out with.

[Joe]

I don't think Zach was boring. I think people are boring.

That's a hot take, bitches. Who do you think could have made the greatest Bachelorette if she was given the role?

[Serena]

Victoria Fuller.

[Joe]

I agree. Yeah, I do agree with that, for sure. And I think Bachelor myself.

[Serena]

Stop vying for the role. Okay.

[Joe]

Who? I probably would have been the worst.

[Serena]

You would have been good. You would have been very good.

[Joe]

Who do you think is an overrated.

[Serena]

Fan account fan favorite.

[Joe]

Oh. Who do you think is an overrated fan favorite? Grocery store Joe.

[Serena]

No, you're not over.

[Joe]

Who do I think was an overrated fan favorite? I mean, that's hard because now we're going to go take a fan favorite and be like, this person's actually not great.

[Serena]

No. Yeah, we're not answering that. I'm not going to be like, hey, this person that everyone thinks is great behind the scenes, like, they kind of suck.

[Joe]

Yeah.

Who was a villain in your eyes that flew under the radar their season?

[Serena]

No, I'm not answering that either.

[Joe]

Yeah, that's a tough one. Who do you think could have been a star on paradise this past season if they were cast?

[Serena]

You know who wasn't cast that I was surprised about, and I know that she's a much more mellow personality, but I enjoy her. Would be Rachel Nonce.

[Joe]

Yeah, I'm surprised she wasn't cast.

[Serena]

Her and her and Leia are really good friends. Like, it would have been fun to see their friendship, especially because Leia was kind of going through her single girl journey on the show.

Yeah, she was one of the ones that I remember being like, I'm really surprised she's not down here.

[Joe]

Yeah, I don't really. I don't really know. I think.

Maybe that guy Brett that went home night one. I would have liked to.

[Serena]

Spicy questions, segment three, our third and final segment of the episode.

[Joe]

Okay, what's something Bachelor fans need to hear?

[Serena]

Oh, my God. So much.

[Joe]

It's just a shell.

[Serena]

Just stop. Stop leaving hate comments, guys. Like, you're not going to. You're not going to stop. And that's, you know, your prerogative to do so. But, like, some of them you could text your mom, some of them you could text your best friend, and some of you should probably delete social media.

[Joe]

Do you currently have beef with anyone in bachelor nation?

[Serena]

I don't think so. Not that I know of.

[Joe]

No. What tea can you spill from your respective seasons?

[Serena]

I don't know. I don't know if I can share anything.

[Joe]

I. I don't. I'm trying to think are like my first season.

Well, I mean, Clayton or Colton was on my season of bachelor of paradise and he's gay.

[Serena]

I don't think you're spilling anything there.

[Joe]

That's not.

[Serena]

He's married to a man.

[Joe]

That's not. That's not new anymore. Our season of paradise any. I. I thought our season of paradise was pretty great because I feel like everything was kind of out there.

[Serena]

You and I season or the one you were on before me.

[Joe]

Our season.

[Serena]

Yeah. I actually think a lot of the tea that typically would be kept behind the scenes made it onto the beach. Our season of paradise. Yeah, I don't know if there is much actually to spell from that.

[Joe]

What predictions do you have for Taylor Frankie Paul's season? Well, I definitely predict that her. I mean, I watched season three of housewives of mormon wives.

[Serena]

Secret lives.

[Joe]

Secret lives of mormon wives. Great show.

[Serena]

So good. It is. It is so good.

[Joe]

Glad I watched it. And I. My prediction is her guy on season three. What's his name?

[Serena]

Dakota.

[Joe]

Dakota definitely. Definitely tries to make a comeback here.

[Serena]

You think?

[Joe]

Yeah, I don't know if he. He. He's definitely making an appearance.

[Serena]

Do you think he's a night one limo entrance?

[Joe]

I don't think he's a night one limo entrance, No.

[Serena]

I can see them bringing him to like host a date with her. Like bringing him in as like a tailor expert to like host one of the dates and then like having her and him have a little chat.

[Joe]

I think he comes in and he's like, listen, why don't we try to make this work.

[Serena]

Maybe I will accept any appearance from him on that show.

I'm also curious to see the women making appearances on the show. I haven't seen or heard anything about the potential of them going on it. And I feel like those girls are always on TikTok.

[Joe]

Yeah, I would think they will.

[Serena]

Yeah, I can't imagine they won't. I love that my worlds are colliding.

[Joe]

What's the best and worst thing about the rise of social media in terms of the franchise.

Example? Being able to see more of your faves. But cloud chasers joined the show.

[Serena]

I actually don't think cloud chasers joining the show is something that's tied to the rise of social media. I think that it's always been there. I think that it has just taken on a new shape with the rise of social media. I think that the biggest downfall is people's fear as a contestant when they do something that is deemed wrong. And again, like, sometimes it is wrong. But there's times where I kind of want to see someone like double down a little bit and be like, hey, like, this is why I made this choice or this is why I said this thing. And people sometimes succumb to apology so much easier and faster than as a viewer. I want them to, like, sometimes, yes, you need to like, not double down. You need to take accountability and apologize. But sometimes you want to see someone like, be like, this is who I am, and like defend their choice a little bit. And I think we don't see that as much because people are so scared of being eaten apart on the Internet.

[Joe]

Yeah, I think that's. That that would be. I agree with you. That would be my thing too. I think people are, because of social media and because they care about how they come across on social media, they approach the show from a more hesitant, yeah, like, I'm not as willing to like, do this or put myself out there as much because of how I don't want any backlash on social media.

[Serena]

And I think being the quote unquote villain before social media had like benefits and perks to it, that people were almost like willing to do it. Whereas now I feel like the monetization of social media has played such a role that you want to be liked more so than just like your own ego wanting to be liked, but also for the financial opportunity that can come with being a fan favorite. Whereas the villains don't always see that same return.

[Joe]

Well, I would say, like, so I would say like.

Early to, you know, mid, late 2000s, like early, like 2000, like 12, 13, like the villain, you know, you took, you took like a good looking guy who was the villain and he went to like the bar and he's crushing it.

[Narrator/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You know, like, it's definitely changed. I think, like, he is getting attention. I think, I think people used to love the villains where now it's like, if you're a villain, you're, we fucking hate you and we're gonna send you.

[Serena]

People like love to hate the villains. It was fun. It's not as fun anymore.

[Joe]

Okay, and then last but not least last question, then we're wrapping it. What percentage of people do you think are coming on the show Just for clout.

[Serena]

I think it's less than what people think.

[Joe]

I would say.

[Serena]

Well, I think just for clout, meaning, like, you're not interested in a relationship. You're not interested in the experience. You' making friends. You're literally just there because you want attention, social.

[Joe]

Well, okay, but I want. I want to throw this in. There is. Is.

Clout also, like, oh, this will give me a good chance to date after the show. Like, it'll be easier.

[Serena]

No, I don't think that's clout.

[Joe]

I do.

[Serena]

Really?

[Joe]

That's like the definition.

[Serena]

Yeah, no, I guess you're right.

[Joe]

And I think in that. I think in that sense, I think I would say.

90%.

[Serena]

Whoa, you think 90% of people?

[Joe]

Yeah, because I just think realistically, if.

[Serena]

You get cast, I was gonna say, like, 15 to 20 max.

[Joe]

I think there's only a select few every season that are going on this show.

With the hopes and dreams of marrying the lead.

[Serena]

Okay, but what about the alternative of, like, if I end up with them, great, but, like, this is just a really cool experience that's clown. Like a once in a lifetime experience.

[Joe]

That I put that. I put that in the.

[Serena]

I don't know if that would fall.

[Joe]

The right reasons of this show are supposedly the right reasons. So anything else is clout, in my opinion. But the right reason is to go on the show because you want to be engaged and get married. And I think 90 of the. The people that come on agree before they even know who the fucking lead is. So, like, you have to be there. There's. Yeah, I think 90 of them are like, okay, I'm either. I'm coming on for the experience. I'm coming out because what could happen after I'm coming on? Because, yeah, like, I'm sick of being single, and I think after the show, like, I have a way better chance of dating someone that I. And I have more options now. Yeah, I think, like, the percentage of people that go on the show to make a career out of social media, podcasting, influencing, whatever, I'd say that's a lot lower. Yeah, I would think that's probably like. I would say that's probably like 10%. No, no, way higher than 10. I would say. I would say that's like, around, like the, like, 40%.

[Serena]

Really?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

Whoa.

[Joe]

Think about it realistically. How many people can go. Can't commit to leaving their career. Yeah. Because we're now in our mid-20s, late mid-20s, early-30s, mid-30s, can leave their career for. They have to be able to leave for two and a half months. How many people could with can do that? Either you have to have a very flexible schedule.

[Serena]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Or you have to already have had some money. But it's hard. Most people have to. Most people have to like either quit their job or be willing to get fired.

[Serena]

No. Yeah, that's a good point.

[Joe]

I know.

[Serena]

Yeah.

[Joe]

A lot of them. Okay. That is. That's an episode. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to Bachelor Happy Hour. Make sure you download and subscribe to the podcast.

[Serena]

We'll have new and exclusive interviews coming for you every single week. Thanks for listening. Bye.

I consider myself to be a pretty good gift giver. I've got my list.

[Joe]

Checked it twice, probably three times. She takes the holidays very seriously.

[Serena]

I can't help it, you know. I love finding the perfect gifts. And Walmart has all the top brands. Nespresso, Sonos, Nintendo, Nintendo at Walmart.

[Joe]

Who knew?

[Serena]

I know. And more.

[Joe]

Get all the brands everyone loves at Walmart. Head to Walmart.com or download the Walmart app to get all your gifts this season.

[Commercial/Ad Voice]

Chapter 10 Ronan's eyes widened as the moon enveloped their secret sanctuary. Go, he warned. I'm losing control. Luna defiantly stepped forward, tracing the scar across his jaw. Then lose it, she whispered. She was ready. She has Nexplanon etinorgestrel implant 68mg radiopaque to prevent pregnancy. A non daily prescription birth control for women that goes in your arm and not in your uterus. Don't use nexplanon if you're pregnant or may be pregnant, have or had blood clots or certain cancers, have liver disease, liver tumor or unexplained vaginal bleeding. Once the implant is placed, you and your doctor should feel for it. If at any time you can't feel the implant, contact your doctor right away and use a non hormonal birth control method such as condoms. Removal of the implant may be difficult or impossible if it isn't where it should be. While uncommon ectopic pregnancy, pregnancy that occurs outside the womb can occur, which can cause serious internal bleeding, infertility and even death. You are likely to experience changes to your period. Ovarian cysts may occur and usually disappear. Nexplanon may raise the chance of serious blood clots which can cause heart attack, stroke or death, especially if you smoke or have other risk factors. Nexplanon doesn't protect against HIV or STDs. With less than one pregnancy per 100 women who use Nexplanon for one year. Nexplanon is over 99% effective. No matter the fantasy. Talk to your doctor, call 1-877-467-5266 or visit nexplanon.com for more information. Ask your doctor about nexplanon.

[Joe]

Wishing the holidays could come early. If you own or manage your business, they can, with help from iHeartradio. People are already shopping for their loved ones and hunting for deals wherever they can find them, including right here. They're listening to the radio. They're listening to podcasts. They could be listening to you. Don't wait for everyone else to kick off the holidays. Get your best season of the year up and running today. Call 844-844-IHeart or visit iheartadvertising.com.

[Serena]

On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. My guest, Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, opens up about his 2022 stroke, his battle with depression and his remarkable recovery.

[Joe]

Stay in the game and keep it as simple as you can, because the lie of depression is that the best solution is to take yourself out. And that is the awful choice you can't ever come back from.

[Serena]

Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe]

Today we'll attempt a feat once thought impossible, overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing, a SoFi personal loan. With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low fixed rate monthly payment. Defy high interest debt with a SOFI personal loan. Visit sofi.com stunt to learn more. Loans originated by SoFi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891 this is an iHeart podcast.

[Narrator/Ad Voice]

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