Jonathon & Rachel: Flirty Friends or The Perfect Match? | Happy Hour

Summary

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Bachelor Happy Hour

Episode: "Jonathon & Rachel: Flirty Friends or The Perfect Match?"

Date: February 10, 2026
Host: Rachel Recchia (Charity Lawson absent)
Guest: Jonathan (Bachelor in Paradise, Season 10)

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Episode Overview

This lively episode is all about chemistry, connection, and candid confessions as host Rachel Recchia flies solo (sans Charity) to catch up with Jonathan from Bachelor in Paradise, Season 10. They dig into the realities—versus the "reality TV"—of Bachelor Nation relationships, dissect the upcoming season with a controversial lead, share personal growth stories, and flirtatiously debate whether their own spark could ever be more than just friendly. Expect inside perspectives, plenty of laughs, and more than a few flirty moments.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Catching Up with Jonathan: Post-Paradise Reflections

• Rachel kicks off by highlighting Jonathan's journey and rumored dating prowess.
• Reflecting on Bachelor in Paradise S10
  • Jonathan expresses that reality TV can lack realness:

    “I feel like there's a lack of reality in reality TV these days...I'm not gonna play with somebody's emotions just because I’m on a show.” – Jonathan (03:00)

  • Notes the season's compatibility wins for other couples (Andrew & Alex, Spencer & Jess).
• Would Jonathan do Paradise again?
  • Immediate “No,” but admits, “Don’t quote me on that, but no,” emphasizing the pressure and disappointment after waiting 10 months and not vibing romantically (03:46 – 04:14).
  • Rachel and Jonathan muse about age distribution and cast dynamic challenges.

2. Dating Dynamics and Authenticity

• Jonathan’s Approach
  • Vowed honesty in dating: “I think I gave everything, like, an honest try...at the end of the day, I'd rather just let it be known early on.” (05:05)
  • Admits to fun potential with Jill, but not lasting compatibility; reflects on the importance of post-show realities (05:32).

3. Upcoming Bachelor/Bachelorette Season: Sizzling Hot Takes

• Taylor as Bachelorette?
  • Jonathan shares skepticism about Taylor’s suitability due to her "drama" and high visibility:

    “If the things that surrounded what she has done... were a guy, I think everybody would be like, ‘Are you kidding me? There’s no way he’s allowed to be Bachelor.'” (06:14)

  • Mentions her being open about past swinging/relationship choices and how that impacts cast perceptions.
  • Rachel clarifies casting process: men joining knew it would be Taylor, so they’re choosing with full awareness (07:31).
  • Both wonder if participants are motivated by fame or for “the right reasons,” given Taylor's high profile and crossover with “Mormon Wives” (09:15 – 10:32).
  • Jonathan ultimately roots for Taylor, but doubts some guys’ intentions.

Memorable Quote:

“It’s going to be so entertaining watching her because she’s a pistol, dude. She is always just on one...I don’t think she’s going to put up with a lot of shit.” – Jonathan (10:40)

4. The Genuine Grind: Jonathan’s Ironman Journey

• Why Triathlons and Ironman?
  • Jonathan is passionate but humble about his fitness journey, saying it's about pushing his own limits, not impressing others (15:10 – 17:07).
  • Spells out the grueling details:
    • 2.4-mile swim
    • 112-mile bike ride
    • Marathon run—all in one day (16:10).
  • Rachel jokes about the ordeal (“You just want to do this for fun?”) and the “very Bachelor” dream of a romantic French adventure trip reward (19:01).
• Discipline, Motivation, and Mental Toughness
  • “We have a singular life. I don’t want to just sit there...I want to achieve something that other people just haven’t done.” (16:48)
  • Relationship between physical/mental progress and other areas of life.

5. Sincere, Old School Dating

• No Dating Apps Ever
  • Jonathan insists he’s all about in-person connections: grocery store, coffee shops, events—never used apps (19:22).
    • “You just walk up and introduce yourself...If they don’t want to give you the time of day, okay, thank you. I appreciate your time.” (19:38)
  • Rachel is amused (and perhaps impressed) by his direct approach, leading to playful banter (“Are you hitting on me?” “Always.” 20:51)
  • Jonathan:

    “I'm a firm believer if somebody wants to talk to you, they're going to talk to you. … You can be like, ‘I poop my pants,’ and if they really want to talk to you, they’re going to.” (20:55)

Flirty Exchange Highlight:

• Rachel: “You’re making me nervous.”
• Jonathan: “Why?”
• Rachel: “I’m just joking. But no, I get. Coffee after this? Oh my God, I’m sweating. So hot in here.” (21:57)

6. Vulnerabilities and True Feelings

• Jonathan gets personal, describing struggles on air and in Paradise:
  • “I cried twice because I was just, like, not… I think what one thing that doesn’t show is I’m very sensitive.” (23:29)
  • Talks about “being [his] own biggest enemy” and the pressure of reality TV (23:55).
• Describes his approach to relationships: looking for compatibility post-show, not just for the experience in paradise (24:41).

7. Life Then & Now: ‘Is 2026 the New 2016?’

• Jonathan recalls being a freshman in Lake Tahoe, partying, snowboarding, facing injuries, and depression (30:42 – 31:54).
  • “I was aggressively, like, depressed for, like, three months…not a tiny town kind of person.”
  • Channeled creativity into drawing, making videos, eventually social media.
• Rachel reminisces on college, sorority life, learning to fly, and flying as her dream date activity (34:54).

8. Rachel & Jonathan’s Rapport: Friendship or Flirtation?

• Repeated playful teases and “should we date?” moments throughout.
  • Jonathan invites Rachel to travel with him; Rachel considers a dream trip to France (“Do you want to come with me to Mont Saint Michel maybe?” “I do love escargot.” 22:17).
  • Joking about eloping, traveling, and revisiting their Bachelor journeys.
• Closing segments feature a mutual Q&A:
  • Jonathan: “What’s your favorite thing that being a part of this world has brought you?”
  • Rachel: “Friendships…truly get me beyond anyone, and I’m very lucky for that.” (36:19)
  • Rachel: “What qualities would a person need to have if you went back to Paradise to get down on one knee?”
  • Jonathan: “Extremely self-aware, not falling for the glitz and glam…realistic…lighthearted, not worried about people judging them…just a best friend.” (36:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Reality TV:
  • “I think there's a lack of reality in reality TV these days, and I'm not gonna just go on. …Some circumstances where people put on for the show, and I just... I'm not gonna play with somebody's emotions like that just because I'm on a show.” – Jonathan (02:40)
• On Taylor's Bachelorette Candidacy:
  • “If the things that surrounded what she has done… were a guy, I think everybody would be like, ‘Are you kidding me? There’s no way he’s allowed to be Bachelor.’” – Jonathan (06:14)
  • “She’s a pistol, dude. She is always just on one… I don’t think she’s going to put up with a lot of shit.” – Jonathan (10:40)
• On Pursuing the Ironman:
  • “I want to achieve something that other people just haven't done or don't think to do.” – Jonathan (16:48)
• On Organic Dating:

  “I'm a firm believer if somebody wants to talk to you, they're going to talk to you. It doesn't matter what you say. You can be like, 'I poop my pants.'…if they really want to talk to you, they're going to talk to you.” – Jonathan (20:55)

• On His Vulnerability:
  • “I cried twice because I was just, like, not... I think what one thing that doesn’t show is I’m very, like, sensitive. … I'll beat myself. I'm my, like, own biggest enemy.” – Jonathan (23:29-23:59)
• On Friendship:
  • “Friendships…truly get me beyond anyone, and I’m very lucky for that.” – Rachel (36:19)

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Segment Timestamps

• Jonathan reflects on Paradise, authenticity in reality TV: (02:37 – 05:28)
• Discussion of Bachelor in Paradise couples: (03:13 – 05:05)
• Would Jonathan do it again? Pressure of the show: (03:46 – 05:28)
• Taylor as Bachelorette, “hot takes” on her casting: (06:10 – 11:32)
• Ironman ambition, training, and reward trips: (14:43 – 19:17)
• Jonathan’s dating philosophy (no apps, face-to-face): (19:19 – 22:25)
• Flirty banter, running joke about dating each other: (21:22 – 22:25; 22:14 – 22:25)
• Reflections on awkwardness, rejection, and approach: (20:09 – 21:57)
• Candid moments: crying, Paradise vulnerability: (23:01 – 23:59)
• 2016 vs. 2026: College memories, growth: (30:32 – 34:54)
• Dream dates: Museums, wine bars, arcade games, flying: (25:36 – 34:54)
• Mutual Q&A: What Bachelor world means, ‘the one’ qualities: (36:01 – 38:08)

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Final Thoughts & Energy

The episode is an easy-listening, heartfelt balance of playful teasing, open vulnerability, and authentic self-reflection. Rachel and Jonathan’s chemistry shines—whether more as flirty friends or something on the horizon is left playfully open to interpretation. The podcast closes with a mutual appreciation for real connections, both in friendship and romance, and the ways reality TV can both help and hinder that search.

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For those who missed it:
You’ll come away with a richer sense of what’s real versus what’s shown on TV, the unique challenges of Bachelor Nation life, plus plenty of banter and several genuinely memorable exchanges. Whether you’re here for Bachelor gossip, dating inspiration, or just the contagious camaraderie—this episode delivers.

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Transcript

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

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[Dr. Jake Goodman]

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[Jonathan]

I love him.

[Rachel]

Whatever our souls are made of, his.

[Jonathan]

And mine are the same experience. The greatest love story of all time.

[Rachel]

Why did you leave me?

[Jonathan]

Why did you betray your own heart of Phil? Film by Emerald Fennell, Margot Robbie, Jacob Elordi Kiss me. Let us both be damned. Wuthering Heights Original Songs by Charlie XCX only in theaters February 13th. Experience at an IMAX rated R under 17. Not admitted without parent.

[Ben Higgins]

You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul. Honest conversations about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between. Celebr everyday people. Some have answers. Most are still figuring it out. And if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rachel]

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Bachelor. Happier. I'm Rachel, and today I'm going to be waiting a millennium solo. Okay, first of all, our guest is already trying to micromanage me. Everyone, welcome Jonathan from season 10 of Bachelor in Paradise. Is that right? Season 10? Jonathan, welcome. It's just gonna be you and me today.

[Jonathan]

Sweet.

[Rachel]

We have a lot to discuss, a lot to go over. Thanks for being here.

[Jonathan]

Thanks for having me.

[Rachel]

So let's catch up. Jonathan and I are gonna talk all things Iron man today.

[Jonathan]

No, we are not.

[Rachel]

Because he loves to work out.

[Jonathan]

We're talking all things being single and dating and maybe flirting a little bit.

[Rachel]

Oh, he wants to talk about dating. Okay.

[Jonathan]

Yep.

[Rachel]

So walk me through. I know we've all watched you on season 10 of Bachelor in Paradise.

[Jonathan]

Yep.

[Rachel]

What happened?

[Jonathan]

I mean, I think I've said this like a thousand times now, but it's like I feel like there's a lack of reality in reality TV these days, and I'm not gonna just go on.

[Rachel]

Do you think everyone there is fake?

[Jonathan]

I don't think they're fake, but I think there's some circumstances. And I'm not saying from my season, I think just reality TV as a whole, where people put on for the show, and I just. I'm not gonna play with somebody's emotions like that just because I'm on a show. You know what I mean?

[Rachel]

Give me an example. Who was fake on your season?

[Jonathan]

Well, I don't know if anybody is fake. There's. Honestly, there's a good amount of people that ended up staying together, which is awesome.

[Rachel]

I know you guys had a really successful season.

[Jonathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

You know who I really love postseason is Andrew and Alex.

[Jonathan]

Yep.

[Rachel]

I think I could never have picked a more compatible couple. And watching them, I. I don't know on the season, they gave us a little bit, but watching them after has been so entertaining.

[Jonathan]

Yeah. And Spencer and Jess moved in together.

[Rachel]

They did?

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

They're moving. What is it to.

[Jonathan]

They're in Dallas.

[Rachel]

In Dallas. And where did she live before?

[Jonathan]

San Diego.

[Rachel]

I love that. See, there's so much love on that season. Would you ever do it again?

[Jonathan]

No.

[Rachel]

Why not?

[Jonathan]

Don't quote me on that, but no.

[Rachel]

Why not?

[Jonathan]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't think I loved the way the first time around went that much.

[Rachel]

What do you mean?

[Jonathan]

I just was. I think I was more hopeful than I got. Does that make sense? I waited. I mean, I waited 10 months to be on that show, and then I got there, and I was just, like, not super stoked about anybody.

[Rachel]

I feel like there was a lot of pressure on you, especially because your job for, like, months and months was just, like, about to go on Bachelor in paradise.

[Jonathan]

Build us hype. Yeah, build us hype. Let people know you're going and just dance for us until you get there. And then I got there, and then I'm like, I don't like anybody. Like, what do you guys want me to do?

[Rachel]

Yeah. I feel like maybe if there were more women your age, it would have worked out. And this is what I tell Jill, because for everyone who doesn't know, Jill is my best friend. And I feel like you guys kind of, like, got let down a little bit with the amount of people that were there, because on my season, it was like, every day there were four new people, and we already had such a big cast, and I couldn't even find anyone in that kind of a setting. But I think that would have been better if you guys had a little bit more of some young energy on the beach.

[Jonathan]

Probably. Probably. But, like, again, you got to make the best with, like, what you're given. I think I gave everything, like, an honest try. Like, anytime somebody asked me on a date, I was just open minded. I was like, hell, yeah, I'm gonna go and do my thing and just have fun, see what comes of it. And at the end of the day, like, I'd rather just let it be known early on rather than wait and just be like, oh, maybe. Nope, I'm just gonna.

[Rachel]

Yeah. Do you feel like you gave it an honest try with Jill?

[Jonathan]

Do I think I gave it an honest shot with Jill?

[Rachel]

You guys could have been a fun couple.

[Jonathan]

We would have had a lot of fun together. I just don't think we're compatible in that way. But I think just, like, if we partnered up, like how Leia and I did, and it was just, like, funny to watch, I think Jill and I would have had fun in the same way. Should we have came off on a hotter start?

[Rachel]

I love Leia.

[Jonathan]

Oh, me too.

[Rachel]

Leia. We need to get her on the podcast. Us three. That would be such a fun episode.

[Jonathan]

Leigh and I together are a dangerous duo.

[Rachel]

Speaking of paradise, we're gonna have all of Taylor, Frankie, Paul's guys.

[Jonathan]

Sweet.

[Rachel]

And the next Bachelor's girls. What are your thoughts on Taylor's season?

[Jonathan]

Okay. Okay. This is. This is gonna be a semi hot take. But I think the only. The only reason I'm a little skeptical of it is because. And usually I'm like, for the girls side, rah rah. Is like, if the things that surrounded, like, what she has done in the past were a guy, I think everybody would be like, are you kidding me? There's no way he's allowed to be the Bachelor.

[Rachel]

So you don't think she should be the Bachelorette?

[Jonathan]

It's not that. I just. I think that it's a difficult scenario, given her past, to be in that position and then expect people to either overlook it or come in completely open minded. It's hard to. Because she's such a big presence in, like, reality TV now. So it would be really hard to find guys that are just like, fully just like, they haven't heard anything about it, they're not worried about it, and they come in and they just do.

[Rachel]

Their thing, I think. Well, I see what you're saying. Like, what parts of that do you mean? Like, because she's a mom, because we've had like mothers.

[Jonathan]

Yeah. No, that's not even about them. I think it's more like the drama of it. Like, the things that have happened, like, being like. And again, this is more of a question, like, openly a, like, swinger. Right.

[Rachel]

Did they swing, though? I thought it was like, something like that.

[Jonathan]

Right.

[Rachel]

Soft swinging. Did they fully swing? I will say. And, I mean, you can. You have a different standpoint. Obviously, I was never on your side, but I feel like Taylor coming in and all the men already know these things about her. They're actively choosing to be there. And I think Taylor, what she's looking for is someone who knows all these things about her and still wants to be with her. Right. So I think Taylor was lucky because, like, they had a long casting process where they knew it was her. And for a lot of us, the men kind of go in not knowing.

[Jonathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Did you know it was Jen?

[Jonathan]

I knew once. I was, like, sequestered.

[Rachel]

Right. So a lot of us, like.

[Jonathan]

But beforehand. No. I didn't know going into it.

[Rachel]

Well, same. Yeah. Clayton. It was so last minute. We found out. So the men who are showing up, they have to be showing up for her.

[Jonathan]

True. Or this might be, like, the biggest season of are you here for the right reasons or not? Which. I hate that narrative. But, like, I feel like it's not going to be more relevant than this season. You know what I mean?

[Rachel]

Yeah. So you think a lot of people will be there looking for something else?

[Jonathan]

I don't know if that's a fact, but I think we'll be able to tell pretty readily who is and who isn't. Because again, now. Now the hot take aside of me seeing, like, things switched and her relationship issues in the past or whatever it might be, that's all publicly out there. I mean, I've heard things from her, haven't had the chance to meet her yet, but everybody that surrounds her says how awesome she is and how sweet she is. I think she's very deserving of love and that she should find somebody. And I hope this season ends that way. But I'm a little skeptical of the guys coming in, for sure.

[Rachel]

Interesting. I like how you said that, too, because I feel like every season, even on my season, I was like, are you actually here because you want to just get far and be the Bachelor? Are you here because you want to go to paradise? But now you have an added element where it's like, are you here just because you want to be on Mormon Wives? And that's a whole 100%.

[Jonathan]

So now you have to incorporate the fact that these guys, whoever gets chosen is not only going to win the bachelorette, but also have to be incorporated into Mormon wives at some capacity. So it's like, that is a very slippery slope. Is, like, looking at like, okay, this could make my life. Let's say you stick it out for two years and then I'm good, and then I could just hurt this poor girl. You know what I mean? Like, that's something I. If I was her friend or her brother or her dad, whatever, I would be like, all right, who the did you pick? And, like, are they actually here? Because it'd be really hard to tell.

[Rachel]

I think, you know, that's such a good point because I think, yeah, we've done reality tv, but doing the type of reality TV that Mormon wives do where it's like, every bit of their life and their relationship struck, like, their struggles, their family struggles and everything is brought to the public. Like, that's a lot to sign on for.

[Jonathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

So they're fully signing on for not only, like, a future with her, but, like, your entire life being picked apart. I never thought about it that way.

[Jonathan]

It's a very good take, but hot takes aside, too. Like, at the very least, it's going to be so entertaining watching her because she's a pistol, dude. She is always just on one.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Jonathan]

And I don't think she's going to put up with a lot of shit. So, like, as soon as the guys are acting up, I just know she's just going to let loose.

[Rachel]

Do you think she's just going to be, like, sending people home left and right like, before the rose ceremony?

[Jonathan]

I hope so. Honestly. That would be entertaining to watch. She's like, yeah, no, you're out before you even get to rose. She's like, screw the rose ceremony. I know. I don't like this, dude. Get out of here.

[Rachel]

How do you think the public is gonna react to that? Because, like, on my season, I sent someone home on the first one on one, and, like, I couldn't recover. Like, they hated me.

[Jonathan]

I don't think she cares.

[Rachel]

I love.

[Jonathan]

That is the best. Is the best part. Like, she wouldn't have put herself in this position, like, again for, like, even, like, my skepticism of what I said. She knows that that's going to come. You know what I mean? I just don't think she cares, which is awesome.

[Rachel]

Amazing.

[Jonathan]

Yeah. I mean, like, yes, I'm gonna point out the things that, like, I'm skeptical of, but at the end of the day, I'M like very here for it.

[Rachel]

Yeah, no, very exciting. We're looking out for for Taylor season.

[Jonathan]

Yeah.

[Dr. Jake Goodman]

Ever been at a pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and I Heart media. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you you see most answering the questions you wish you'd asked, like which medications might not mix well, what vaccines you should consider before a big trip, and even those questions you are too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

Get your podcasts from Warner Bros. Pictures and award winning filmmaker Emerald Fennell comes Wuthering Heights, starring Margot Robbie opposite Jacob Elordi. In this bold reimagining of Emily Bronte's classic novel of the same name, Fennell takes audiences on a yearning and emotionally charged journey following star crossed lovers Kathy, played by Robbie, and Heathcliff, played by Elordi, as their forbidden love for one another turns from romantic to intoxicating in an epic tale of lust, love and madness. Heathcliff's plea says it be with me always. Take any form. Drive me mad. Go see this visually intoxicating it girl cultural phenomenon of the season, Wuthering Heights Come Undone Only in theaters February 13th. Experience it in IMAX. Be sure to check out Charli XCX's new album Wuthering Heights, featuring new music from the Wuthering Heights movie. Rated R Under 17 not admitted without a parent.

[Ben Higgins]

What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins and if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the Story. This show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rachel]

So transitioning into your Ironman. All things working out. Jonathan loves to talk about working out.

[Jonathan]

No, I do not.

[Rachel]

Yeah. So tell us, how did this all come to be? When did you decide that you were gonna run? How many miles is this?

[Jonathan]

Do you actually want me to go into depth on this?

[Rachel]

What else do you wanna talk about?

[Jonathan]

All right, well, okay, do you know what?

[Rachel]

Even if I'm working out with Joey. Sorry.

[Jonathan]

All right, we're gonna do this, like, as a quick rundown because I know the girls at home do not care about my iron.

[Rachel]

Jonathan, this is a huge part of your life and you should share it with the people.

[Jonathan]

It is. It's a huge achievement for me and I do work very hard at it. I'm very proud of it.

[Rachel]

So tell us.

[Jonathan]

But this is one of those things that I don't do for other people. I do it for my own. Like, I don't know, like I. I set goals in life to progress and I. I've been working out since I was like 14, 15, and I hit every goal in the gym that I've ever wanted to hit. Like, I don't need to be the biggest guy. I don't care about that. Like, I just want to look good and feel good in my own skin. And I got to that point. So I just started kind of going through the motions at the gym. And I was like, I need something else to fight for. And originally I was like, oh, should I do a marathon? And I was like, no, Everybody and their mom does a damn marathon.

[Rachel]

Like, you have to be different.

[Jonathan]

So I was, no, literally, I was like, I don't want to be like everybody else. Are you kidding me?

[Rachel]

You're so different. Like, he's not like other girls.

[Jonathan]

So I. I was like, you know what? I can do a triathlon. And then I looked at the miles on it and I was like, that is so easy.

[Rachel]

What is the mileage for those of us at home who don't know, including myself?

[Jonathan]

So triathlon is a 0.8 mile swim, a 8 mile run, and like a 26 mile bike ride or something. But the Ironman that I'm doing ends up being it's a 2.4 mile swim, a 112 mile bike ride, and a full marathon at the end.

[Rachel]

So you do all that and then you get out of the pool and you run?

[Jonathan]

Yeah, so I'll swim 2.4 miles takes about two hours. And then I'll get out and then I'll go bike 112 miles, which just takes about seven hours. And then I'll go run a full marathon, which could be three to four hours, all in one day.

[Rachel]

You just want to do this for fun.

[Jonathan]

I want to do it to push myself genuinely. We have a singular life. Like, I don't want to just sit there and just be like, oh, yeah, I went to the gym for my entire life. No, I want to achieve something that other people just haven't done or don't think to do. I think it's really freaking cool. And the kind of people that do it, like, there's just like a. A shimmer of like, wow, you made time in your life to achieve something great.

[Rachel]

Yeah, that takes a lot of.

[Jonathan]

Translates into the rest of my life too. Like if I'm not progressing just physically and mentally like everything else kind of like takes a step back. So as I'm pushing for something like this, I know my professional life, my personal life, my romantic life are all just gonna be pushed in the right direction as well. But that's just, that's. That's a personal thing for me. Like, not everybody's gonna be able to relate to that. But I know for me it's just like something that makes me happy and that I love.

[Rachel]

I love that. What's like the hardest out of the Swimming, running and biking? Swimming for sure. I don't think I could swim more than a couple laps.

[Jonathan]

It's hard as hell.

[Rachel]

Yeah. That takes like your full body.

[Jonathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

How do you not get to like the point of exhaustion and then you have to go ride a bike.

[Jonathan]

It's crazy too. Cause you're sitting there for like hours and like it's just you in your head and you're thigh. I'm literally just going, you're not tired, you're not tired, you're not tired. Yeah.

[Rachel]

What do you want in the pool?

[Jonathan]

That's pretty much it. I go just.

[Rachel]

You're just looking at the black line.

[Jonathan]

I've never stuck harder to like, you know, when people would just cornerly say like one step after the other. Like mine is like one stroke after the other. I'm like, one, one, one, one.

[Rachel]

That's absolutely crazy. And the chafing has to be like wild.

[Jonathan]

No, no chafing. What the hell?

[Rachel]

When you're running after that, you're like soaking wet.

[Ben Higgins]

Oh.

[Jonathan]

I mean, I haven't had to do that yet, so I don't know have.

[Rachel]

You ever done, like, it all together yet or how much longer do you have?

[Jonathan]

No, I mean, it's something that takes a pro. Like, I'm doing my first half in May, so I took what half Iron Man. So I'm doing.

[Rachel]

That's coming up.

[Jonathan]

Yeah. Five months of training up at that point. Five or six. And then I gave myself a year to do the full. Wow. Yeah.

[Rachel]

Do you have, like, a reward for yourself after it's all done?

[Jonathan]

I'm gonna go travel a bit and literally eat and do whatever the hell I want.

[Rachel]

Where are you gonna travel?

[Jonathan]

I think I'm gonna do Japan, Greece, and then France.

[Rachel]

Ooh.

[Jonathan]

Yeah, there's a. I have a bucket list spot in France that I've been wanting to go to forever.

[Rachel]

Where is it?

[Jonathan]

It's called Mont St. Michel. It's like this island castle right off, like, the beaches of France.

[Rachel]

This is so bachelor of you. You want to go to a castle and have dinner?

[Jonathan]

I do.

[Rachel]

That sounds very romantic, but I want to go.

[Jonathan]

I mean, I would love to go with my person. I don't have a person.

[Rachel]

Yeah. How's your. What's your dating life like?

[Jonathan]

What's my dating life like? I've been actively dating, and it's been fun.

[Rachel]

Yeah. How are you, like, meeting people? Are you in the apps?

[Jonathan]

Never had a dating app to this day.

[Rachel]

Really?

[Jonathan]

No.

[Rachel]

I like to hinge.

[Jonathan]

Nope. I like to go up to people at. At events or you just meet people on the coffee shop or, like, a grocery store.

[Rachel]

Have you met anyone in a grocery store?

[Jonathan]

Yeah, you just walk up and introduce yourself. I feel like people, like, think of it as, like, rocket science.

[Rachel]

It really is. I walk in with my headphones in. I look at the ground.

[Jonathan]

I think. Yeah. I think it's just, like, one of those things if you just confidently walk up and you're not a freaking creeper, and you're just, like. You smile, introduce yourself, and just ask for their name, and you start a Converse. Like, it's really not hard. Like, it's just an organic thing. And if they don't want to give you the time of day. Okay, thank you. I appreciate your time. And then you move on. Like, it's not scary.

[Rachel]

I just, like, cannot imagine that actually happening in a grocery store. What's your, like, pickup line?

[Jonathan]

I genuinely.

[Rachel]

Do you pretend to, like, look at the same item that they're looking at?

[Jonathan]

No. No. Because that's when you start overthinking. I think you think, like, okay, okay. Genuinely. Genuinely. The problem that I think most dudes have is, like, they'll come in with this, like, idea, like, even, like, out at the bars. Let's say their goal is to, like, sleep with somebody or to get their number or this could be my wife. Well, now they're thinking of, like, what it takes to make that happen rather than what step one is. So they're worried about trying to jump up 20 stairs versus, like, just stepping on stair number one. And what's their number one? Hi, I'm Jonathan.

[Rachel]

Are you hitting on me?

[Jonathan]

Always.

[Dr. Jake Goodman]

Literally always.

[Jonathan]

Rachel. Wow.

[Rachel]

Wow.

[Jonathan]

It's like, it's not that hard. And I'm a firm believer if somebody wants to talk to you, they're going to talk to you. It doesn't matter what you say. You can be like, I poop my pants. And if they, like, really want to talk to you, they're going to still talk to you.

[Rachel]

Really?

[Jonathan]

Yes.

[Rachel]

Do you think a lot of men just get nervous or, like, do you like. Because I want to say as a woman, a single woman, when I go out, I feel like guys don't, like, approach me.

[Jonathan]

That's because you're hot.

[Rachel]

No, it is. I promise.

[Jonathan]

I swear to God.

[Rachel]

But what is it, do you think? Do you think now men are more nervous, like, because we have the dating apps and we have Instagram and that's.

[Jonathan]

Usually the first people have lost, like, that social interaction side of, like, knowing how to approach people in, like, a human, like, way.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Jonathan]

They don't know what to say. They walk up and they're, like, weird or nervous about it, especially when you're attractive. Like, the last thing I'm going to, like, want if I'm that guy is to be rejected by this beautiful woman that I was already questioning if I could get anyways. You know what I mean?

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Jonathan]

Versus if, like, you just don't think about it and you're not worried, like, you just. Hey, you say hi.

[Rachel]

You're making me nervous.

[Jonathan]

Why?

[Rachel]

I'm just joking. But no, I get coffee after this. Oh, my God, I'm sweating. So hot in here.

[Jonathan]

Oh.

[Rachel]

Oh, my gosh. Should we elope in?

[Jonathan]

Go with it, Rachel. Fall in love and elope on Mount Saint.

[Rachel]

What are your thoughts at a elopement?

[Jonathan]

Do you want to come with me to Mont St. Michel maybe?

[Rachel]

I do love escargot.

[Jonathan]

Just be bachelor coated as hell.

[Rachel]

Yeah. My season, we went to France, so it could be a full circle.

[Jonathan]

Taking you back to your full circle moment also. Okay, wait. Back to the travel and the iron man. Yes, the iron man that I'M doing in Hawaii takes place out of the hotel I stayed at for overnights on gen season.

[Rachel]

You're lying.

[Jonathan]

So May 30th, I was in Hawaii filming for gen season. May 30th is the Ironman in Hawaii at the same hotel?

[Rachel]

Something is going to happen there for you Sane. That's crazy.

[Jonathan]

Yeah. You won't, like, show up and just.

[Rachel]

Like, someone has to get engaged in Hawaii. Redo the whole engagement. Where? Like on the beach. Is that where she got engaged? I can't remember.

[Jonathan]

I don't know. I didn't really.

[Rachel]

That's crazy, though, that it's at the same hotel.

[Jonathan]

The end of that, I didn't like the way it played out.

[Rachel]

Tell me about it. You don't like the way it played out?

[Jonathan]

Yeah. I can imagine. For you. I still haven't watched all of it back out of respect to you, but out of what? How all of this stuff played out. I haven't, like, looked too much into your lore.

[Rachel]

Oh, thank God. I can tell you what my lore is. Crying the entire time. Especially on my season. I don't think there was a day I didn't cry.

[Jonathan]

Really?

[Rachel]

Yes.

[Jonathan]

I wish you could have seen the behind the scenes of Paradise. I cried twice because I was just, like, not.

[Rachel]

I did hear that you cried so many times. I did hear that you cried before paradise aired.

[Jonathan]

Oh, yeah. Multiple times. Yeah, multiple. I'm. I think what one thing that doesn't show is I'm very, like, sensitive. Like, genuinely. No, but, like, not, like, yes, it's good in some ways. But then there's other times where I'm like, nobody here likes me. The girls are mad that I friend zone them.

[Rachel]

And I just was like, that's not true.

[Jonathan]

No, I. But I. I'll beat myself. I'm my, like, own biggest enemy.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Jonathan]

So, like, I'll sit there and I'll just think I'm, like, letting everybody down, and then I'll just, like, slur sobbing.

[Rachel]

Oh, my gosh. Wait. This is emotional. I'm going to start crying. I want to redo for you. Paradise season 11.

[Jonathan]

No.

[Rachel]

All of the girls from our future bachelor season.

[Jonathan]

Can't I just come down and give the guys that are struggling advice? I just prefer that position instead.

[Rachel]

What would your advice be?

[Jonathan]

Depends on the scenario. Do they like somebody that somebody else has?

[Rachel]

I don't know.

[Jonathan]

I don't know. Does somebody. Do people like, are they not interested in them? I don't know.

[Rachel]

Do you feel like those are the two things that you struggle with?

[Jonathan]

What People not being interested in me.

[Rachel]

Well, people were interested in you. But you liked people who are in other couples or.

[Jonathan]

Yeah, I did until, like, I got to know them and I was like, it's just, like, not. We're not compatible. Like, I. I looked further than the show. You know what I mean? Like, from the show perspective. Like, yeah, it's convenient right here because we're here on a beach for a month. Like, hell yeah. I want to have fun and meet you guys and hang out. But, like, post show, like, do I. Do I want to ask you to pick up your life? Do I want to do distance? Do I want to do all these things? Do our personalities match? Like, yeah. And for.

[Rachel]

Smart of you to think about that. I didn't think about that when I was there.

[Jonathan]

Yeah. And people can easily be like, oh, love has no bounds. Like, if it's your person. I'm like, well, odds are my person just wasn't there.

[Rachel]

Like, yeah, that's so true.

[Jonathan]

So, you know, she was sitting in a chair across from me, but, you know. Kidding.

[Rachel]

All right, this interview has to end. I'm sweating now. I'm getting nervous.

[Jonathan]

Did we already talk too long?

[Rachel]

Nervous? Can we play a game?

[Jonathan]

What do you want to talk about?

[Rachel]

I don't know.

[Jonathan]

Rachel, what's your dream date?

[Rachel]

I feel like, I don't know. Since I've been the bachelorette, I've already had, like, all the dream type dates.

[Jonathan]

Now peel back all the BS of the perfect dates that the Bachelor puts out there. What would you want? Like, perfect scenario. I come pick you up. We just go. Have a good Rachel day. What does that look like?

[Rachel]

I don't know. I'm trying to think. Probably like, doing something like a museum.

[Jonathan]

Okay.

[Rachel]

I love any sort of, like, natural history, maybe. Not, like, art. I'm not a huge art person. And then going. And maybe getting a nice drink at a wine bar.

[Jonathan]

Okay.

[Rachel]

Watching the sunset and then going to bed by 9pm Perfect. So I. That's my dream date now.

[Jonathan]

But, like, it doesn't need to be this big extravagant thing. Like, you're gonna go to bed smiling because you can be like, wow, that was an awesome day.

[Rachel]

Do you feel like. Because we go on, like, so many fantasy, like, dates, like, dating now, it's. It's so much different.

[Jonathan]

I enjoy the little things on a date more. Like, I love going to an arcade. I love going to, like, a hole in the wall.

[Rachel]

Do you play Dance Dance Revolution?

[Jonathan]

No.

[Rachel]

What's your arcade game?

[Jonathan]

I'm disgusting at Guitar Hero.

[Rachel]

Do they have that at the arcade. I've never seen Guitar Hero.

[Jonathan]

Every song on Expert. It's like my nerdiest quality.

[Rachel]

Really?

[Jonathan]

Yeah, it's not. And like, I would want to be like, oh, like, should we just like mess around and like, try this game out? And then like really good. Yeah, just go out.

[Rachel]

I used to play that, but I could never do all four at the same time. I could only do the three at the top.

[Jonathan]

That's not that bad. I feel like that that would just give the ick, though, if I couldn't play more. No, no, no, no, no. Me going hard. I'd be like, oh, should we just like play this game and then you look over and I'm just jamming out?

[Rachel]

No, I love Skee Ball.

[Jonathan]

No, no. I'm terrible at skeeball.

[Rachel]

You're not good at skeeball.

[Dr. Jake Goodman]

Ever been at a pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks, do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you see most answering the questions you wish you'd asked, like which medications might not mix well, what vaccines you should consider before a big trip, and even those questions you are too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers, and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

Get your podcasts from Warner Bros. Pictures. And award winning filmmaker Emerald Fennell comes Wuthering Heights starring Margot Robbie opposite Jacob Elordi. In this bold reimagining of Emily Bronte's classic novel of the same name, Fennell takes audiences on a yearning and emotionally charged journey following star crossed lovers Kathy, played by Robbie, and Heathcliff, played by Elordi, as their forbidden love for one another turns from romantic to intoxicating in an epic tale of lust, love and madness. Heathcliff's plea says it be with me always. Take any form. Drive me mad. Go see this visually intoxicating it girl cultural phenomenon of the season, Wuthering Heights come undone Only in theaters February 13th. Experience it in IMAX. Be sure to check out Charli XCX's new album Wuthering Heights, featuring new music from the Wuthering Heights movie. Rated R under 17. Not admitted without a parent.

[Ben Higgins]

What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if youf Can Hear Me is where culture meets the soul, A place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit out with people from all walks of life. Celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks. And we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rachel]

So everyone online has been posting about 2016 because they're saying 2026 is the new 2016. So what did your life look like 10 years ago?

[Jonathan]

I can't post half of it. I was a, like, freshman in college. Like, what do you. What do you think I was doing?

[Rachel]

What were you doing? Tell us.

[Jonathan]

Just drinking and partying. Probably other things and.

[Rachel]

Just other things? What other things, Jonathan?

[Jonathan]

I mean, it's 2026. I was probably smoking weed. I haven't smoked weed since college, though, so I guess it's okay to say that.

[Rachel]

Where did you go to college?

[Jonathan]

I went to community, then I went to school in Lake Tahoe, and then I went to Chapman.

[Rachel]

All over the place. So in 2016, were you at. Which one were you at 2016?

[Jonathan]

I was in Lake Tahoe. So all there was was to snowboard, smoke, drink. That's why I'm like, I can't post stuff from that.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

So.

[Rachel]

John, living the dream.

[Jonathan]

I was. I was doing all that. I was playing lacrosse in college. Yeah. And then after that, I got injured. I had a super bad hernia, and then I got fat. Not fat. I got, like. Yeah, no, kind of. I just. I don't have pictures of it because I just didn't. I wasn't happy.

[Rachel]

I mean, I think everyone goes through that in college. The dining hall.

[Jonathan]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Jungle Juice. It adds up.

[Jonathan]

I was also just, like, aggressively, like, depressed for, like, three months. So that wasn't.

[Rachel]

Jonathan, what was it? After you, like, had your injury?

[Jonathan]

No, after I was, like, stuck up in, like, the mountains. Like, I just, like, I'm not, like, a tiny town kind of person where I can't leave because there was, like, 800 people there, and I was like, I can't do this. That's what I got, like, super into, like, drawing and, like, expressing myself. I got. I got into, like, making videos and stuff, too, which is why people, like, wonder, like, oh, why did you get into social media? I just, like, had to find ways to, like, put myself out to the world because I felt so small in the one I was in.

[Rachel]

So you had all this on the top of a mountain, this, like, prophetic dream of your life?

[Jonathan]

Kind of. I also broke my entire face, which people don't know.

[Rachel]

Okay, so you're on top of a mountain. Something from above is speaking to you and telling you that you have to be creative. And you broke your face the same day?

[Jonathan]

Yeah, I broke my nose in two places, and I fractured my skull. And the plate in the front is still messed up, and I had 19 stitches. It's a disgusting picture.

[Rachel]

This happened on the way down the mountain?

[Jonathan]

No, this happened while I was up there. But, like, it. It didn't add to the. To the experience of it all.

[Rachel]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jonathan]

So, yeah. But anyways, 2016, I was not a good year. No, it was not a good year.

[Rachel]

You know what? I'm gonna be praying that this year is a lot better. I hope you don't break your faith.

[Jonathan]

I hope this isn't the new 2016.

[Rachel]

You know what? I don't either. For you.

[Jonathan]

Yeah. What about you? What was going on in your 2016?

[Rachel]

2016. I was in college. I went to college in Ohio. I was flying every day and just doing college things. I was in a sorority, so I think a lot of sororities.

[Jonathan]

Oh. Not, like, the things I was doing. You weren't, like, drinking or smoking or anything?

[Rachel]

I probably was. I probably had a fake id. I actually definitely had a fake id. And I still remember her name. It was Elizabeth, but it wasn't my picture. So that's not illegal, I think, right? Is it not illegal? I think it's only if you have your information and your face on a fake id.

[Jonathan]

Okay. Yeah.

[Rachel]

So I had a real ID that wasn't mine. It wasn't illegal.

[Jonathan]

Definitely still illegal.

[Rachel]

And I. Yeah, I was in college. I don't feel like anything was really huge going on in my life. I definitely think I was flying every day. So I'd like to bring that into this year because I still, like.

[Jonathan]

I would love.

[Rachel]

Yeah. But I don't do it as much as, like, I would like to. So I think that is what I would bring from 2016 with that.

[Jonathan]

You want to take me out in a Cessna and we'll just go fly around la?

[Rachel]

I would love that. I actually don't really like Cessna, though. I'm more of, like, a Piper type of girl. Low wing.

[Jonathan]

Okay.

[Rachel]

So you don't put me in a glider stall. No, it's not a glider. That's different type.

[Jonathan]

Okay.

[Rachel]

But, yeah, no, I'd love to. Cool. I think flying on the coast, like, that would be such a beautiful date. That would be a dream date.

[Jonathan]

Okay.

[Rachel]

I've never taken a guy flying, though. That's, like, my big thing.

[Jonathan]

Ever.

[Rachel]

No. Well, like, my friends.

[Jonathan]

What's a guy got to do to earn that? What the hell?

[Rachel]

I. I just like. You know, everyone asks and they're always like, are you going to take me flying? It's like a pickup line.

[Jonathan]

Oh, okay. See, that's.

[Rachel]

So I don't do it. Yeah. But I would like to.

[Jonathan]

Okay. All right. Before we. Before we finish.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Jonathan]

I want us to both ask one hot take to each other just to have it.

[Rachel]

I don't have a hot take.

[Jonathan]

Oh, you'll think of something.

[Rachel]

John, I really don't. Hot take. Okay, you go first. I have to think. You're good at this, though.

[Jonathan]

I know. And I love putting you on the spot. It's like, one of my favorite things to do.

[Rachel]

I'm sweating in here. This is. Where's Charity?

[Jonathan]

You guys can't see this, but off camera, we should date.

[Rachel]

And I. I'm sweating in here, so. It's getting really warm. I think we need to end this. It's been a fun episode.

[Jonathan]

What's my. What's. What's my. One hot take for you or one hot question?

[Rachel]

Hot take about me? Oh, we're. We're saying no.

[Jonathan]

It's just one question. It's one. No. No. Wow. I mean, we could do that, like a hot take about you, but mine's not gonna be a hot take. It's just gonna be a compliment.

[Rachel]

Oh, really?

[Jonathan]

Yeah, probably.

[Rachel]

Okay, well, then you go first.

[Jonathan]

Let's see. Actually, not hot take. Just a wholesome question. I have a wholesome question. No, no. What's. What's your favorite thing that being a part of this world has brought you?

[Rachel]

My favorite thing about being in the Bachelor world is definitely. I mean, it's so cheesy, and everyone always says it, but it's like, friendships. I feel like I have so many friendships from this that are, like, the most genuine friends that truly get me beyond anyone, and I'M very lucky for that.

[Jonathan]

Yeah, love that. Right? What do you got for me?

[Rachel]

Okay, my question for you is what qualities would a person need to have if you went back to paradise? For you to get down on one knee.

[Jonathan]

They would have to be extremely self. Aware. Like, when they come in, they're not falling for the glitz and the glam of the show. They're not falling for the glorious dates and the settings we're in where nothing's going on. They're a realistic person that, like, holds me accountable, but also, like, can see that I'm taking it serious too. And not just from a show standpoint, but from a, hey, I want to find somebody. I hope that I can find somebody to date and do it in a capacity where I can share it with the world that wants to watch us do it. You know what I mean? Where it becomes something real. So somebody that has that ability, two, I think a lightheartedness. Somebody just comes in and just, like, doesn't take things too serious. They're not worried about people judging them. They're not worried about the just, I don't know, there's a lot of noise in this world and somebody that just can't look past it and somebody that's just like a best friend. I want somebody I can laugh with. I want somebody I can just have fun with and enjoy our time together.

[Rachel]

Well, I love that. So all the self aware girls, Jonathan, will be on the beach for Bachelor in Paradise Season 11.

[Jonathan]

Would you consider yourself self aware?

[Rachel]

Am I self aware? Maybe.

[Jonathan]

Okay, just curious.

[Rachel]

I would like to think so, but I think a lot of people would tell me otherwise. Okay, I'm sweating. I need to air. It is really hot in this room. Jonathan, thank you so much for stopping by. This has been a super exciting and insightful episode. My favorite one so far. So thank you for being here.

[Jonathan]

Of course. Thanks for having me.

[Rachel]

Yeah, you're welcome.

[Jonathan]

And what, you're gonna say something else?

[Rachel]

No.

[Jonathan]

Also in comment, if you want Rachel and I to go on a date.

[Rachel]

And make sure you guys tune in, subscribe and make sure you listen. We have a lot more interviews coming around way so we'll see you then.

[Ben Higgins]

You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul. Honest conversations about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between. Celebrities, thinkers, everyday people. Some have answers. Most are still figuring it out. And if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.