Kathy & Susan: Looksmaxxing and Men Who Are Great on Paper

Summary

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Bachelor Happy Hour — Kathy & Susan: Looksmaxxing and Men Who Are Great on Paper

Date: May 15, 2026
Hosts: Kathy & Susan (with occasional reference to Charity Lawson and Rachel Recchia)
Podcast: Bachelor Happy Hour

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Episode Overview

This lively episode features Kathy and Susan answering listener questions—ranging from emotional labor in relationships, to navigating “situationships,” to exploring the current dating slang “looksmaxxing.” The hosts draw upon their personal experiences and signature candor to give actionable advice. The latter half also includes their recurring segment where they “grandma google” emerging dating and pop culture slang, with amusing results.

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Listener Advice Segment

Segment Start: [03:10]

1. Men Who Are Great On Paper… But Passive in Relationships

Listener Question: Lara from NYC asks about dating a man who’s present and affectionate, but only if she initiates communication and plans.

• Susan’s take:
  • “I want to see the positive in something before the negative.”
    Some guys are “just slow,” bad at planning, or passive. If you’re a type A and enjoy taking charge, it may not be a problem.
    [04:17]
• Kathy’s counterpoint:
  • “She wants him to take some ownership in date planning.”
  • Men are often “used to being taken care of.” Kathy recommends direct communication:
    • Tell your partner: “I'd love if you'd plan a date or two and surprise me. I would love that.”
    • “If he doesn't do it, then you might have a different problem on your hands. He’s lazy… In which case you might not be a good match.” [05:54]
• Susan:
  • “If I don't text you, then we won't talk. Like, what is that? I'm starting to read between the lines.”
    The lack of initiative can quickly cause overthinking and discomfort. [05:54]
• Key Wisdom:
  • Kathy: “Your boyfriend… can’t read minds.” If you feel a certain way, communicate it and see what happens. [06:08]
  • Susan: “Men are stupid. They don’t get it.” [06:29]
  • Kathy: “We do all the thinking.” [06:37]

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2. Dating Someone Recently Out of a Relationship

Listener Question: Kat from D.C. met someone with intense chemistry, but he recently exited a long-term relationship and still references his ex.

• Susan:
  • Admits she’s the “wrong person to ask,” as she tends to jump into relationships (“that's my style”). [07:29]
• Kathy:
  • The short time since his breakup isn’t necessarily a red flag since relationships can be “over” before the official end.
  • Concern: “He brings her up in little ways.” Context matters—offhand comments vs. genuinely comparing or trashing the ex.
    • “If he brings it up when you make him spaghetti bolognese… ‘this sauce is so much better than my ex’s’, I got a problem.”
    • “If it’s like, ‘my ex wouldn’t sit on this couch,’ that’s just being funny.” [08:40]
• Susan:
  • “I couldn’t tolerate” someone who trashed their ex. But sometimes it’s just about something being “still fresh in his mind.” [09:33]
• Kathy:
  • “I don’t really want to hear an ex trashed… but if it bothers you, Kat, bring it up to your boyfriend.” [10:15]
• Key Wisdom:
  • Kathy: “Women are sometimes afraid to ask because maybe they don’t want to know the answer.” [10:56]
  • “I just wish that women had, in general, more self-confidence at every age.” [11:47]
  • Susan’s anthem: “If you really like them, hang in there, give it a little more time, and maybe bring up a conversation.” [11:58]

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3. Situationships and the Fear of Asking For More

Listener Question: Amanda from Raleigh is in a year-long “situationship,” afraid to push for more commitment and feeling resentful.

• Kathy:
  • “Resentment… that, my friend, is where the resentment starts.” [18:55]
  • Situationships (“the new word for 2026”) can become problematic when one wants more and the other is avoiding commitment.
  • “When a man says he doesn’t want labels… he doesn’t want to commit.” [18:50]
• Susan:
  • “Once I feel resentment, there’s no turning back for me.” [19:02]
  • Stresses the importance of communication, even at the risk of losing the guy:
    • “Say, ‘babe, I’m not trying to put a label, but do tell me why you’re saying you don’t want a label on it. What does that mean to you?’” [19:29]
• Kathy:
  • The “label” issue is more about commitment than semantics.
  • Takes age into consideration:
    • “If you’re 21, enjoy the sex, have fun… If you’re 31, you might think differently.” [22:29]
  • “If you want commitment, you can’t give a guy ever an ultimatum.” [21:19]
  • “He probably likes it just the way it is. In short, he doesn’t want commitment.” [22:29]
• Susan:
  • “Until that resentment really stands out. And then you got to tell them. Tell them the truth.” [23:08]

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Dating Slang Explained – Grandma Googles It

Segment Start: [24:02]

1. “Looksmaxxing”

• An online subculture focused on extreme self-improvement to maximize attractiveness; includes “soft maxing” (grooming, dieting) and “hard maxing” (jawline altering, surgery).
• Kathy:
  • Hadn’t heard the term; connects it to gym culture and social media.
    • “I do it… for people our age getting fit, not for ‘looksmaxxing.’ But I do think a lot of young people do it.” [25:11]
• Susan:
  • Recalls when “heroin chic” and being bone-thin was in.
    • “At 20 years old, I don’t even know if you’re done developing yet.” [26:04]
• Kathy:
  • Critiques today’s culture:
    • “Social media … shows the highlights of our lives.”
    • “It speaks to a culture of people never being satisfied with who they are, altering themselves. If little is good, more is better.” [27:02]
• Susan:
  • “I don’t think there’s anything wrong with self improvement…to a point, not to the extreme.“
• Both:
  • Concerned about young people lacking self-confidence and doing drastic things for the wrong reasons. [28:47]

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2. “Floodlighting”

• Definition by Susan: Oversharing super-deep stuff way too early in a relationship. [34:05]

How Soon is Too Soon to Share Deep Parts of Your Life?

• Kathy:
  • “I’m an oversharer… but not when I’m dating you. In the beginning I used to tell [potential partners that my husband died by suicide] on the first date… then I realized that was a lot.” [34:30]
  • “Floodlighting can be dangerous.”
• Susan:
  • Shares her own story of scaring someone off by oversharing about her sons’ struggles.
    • “I think it scared the shit out of him. I never heard from them again.” [35:39]
• Kathy:
  • “People talk about things that we don’t talk about. Suicide. We don’t talk about those things.” [36:32]
• Life Wisdom:
  • Susan: “I can’t fake to be some way or something that I’m not. They need to know this is it. What you see is what you get.” [37:02]
  • Kathy: “I am learning to not be unauthentic… just learning to rein myself in a little.” [38:03]
• Why men say they want opinionated, independent women but don’t:
  • Kathy: “Men want to be in control.” [38:41]
  • Susan: “And I don’t want to be needed.” [38:44]
• Discussion on sharing, boundaries, and respect in relationships:
  • “If I did something I would want my partner to say, Susan, could you not do that or not talk like that… then you respect where it’s coming from. I don't take it offensively.” – Susan [39:38]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Men are stupid. They don’t get it.” – Susan [06:29]
• “We do all the thinking.” – Kathy [06:37]
• “When a man says he doesn’t want labels… he doesn’t want to commit.” – Kathy [18:50]
• “Once I feel resentment, there’s no turning back for me.” – Susan [19:02]
• “If you really like them, hang in there, give it a little more time…” – Kathy (paraphrasing Susan’s philosophy) [12:03]
• “If little is good, more is better—and that’s what I think has happened.” – Kathy on “looksmaxxing” [27:02]
• “I can’t fake to be some way or something that I’m not. They need to know this is it. What you see is what you get.” – Susan [37:02]
• “Men say [they want an independent woman] but they really don’t want that.” —Kathy [38:29]
• “Sometimes I scare off guys… If guys would take the time to get to know you, they would love you… If pigs had wings, they’d fly.” —Kathy [40:18]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Advice segment kickoff — [03:10]

  • Men who are great on paper but passive — [03:31-06:44]
  • Dating someone recently out of a relationship — [06:54-12:03]
  • Situationships and commitment fear — [17:15-23:08]

• “Grandma Googles It” (Slang explanations) — [24:02]

  • “Looksmaxxing” — [24:30-29:22]
  • “Floodlighting” — [34:05]
    • Floodlighting discussions, oversharing in dating — [34:18-44:46]

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Overall Tone & Final Takeaways

Kathy and Susan deliver their advice with humor, warmth, and sharp honesty. Their easy banter, occasionally self-deprecating confessions, and frank talk about dating after divorce or loss give the podcast a relatable, girlfriend-y vibe.

• On relationships: Communicate directly, don’t assume your partner knows what you want, and don’t settle for someone who drains your energy or leaves you feeling resentful.
• On dating culture: New trends like “looksmaxxing” reflect old pressures in new packaging—self-improvement is fine, obsession is not.
• On oversharing: Be authentic but strategic—especially in early dating.
• Final note: The hosts encourage women to prioritize self-worth and not fear directness in relationships, and always appreciate feedback and engagement from listeners.

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Bachelor Happy Hour remains a must-listen for honest advice, relatable stories, and a dose of modern dating slang—even if you don’t know what “floodlighting” means yet!

Transcript

[Susan]

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[Kathy]

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[Kathy]

Hey everyone, we're back for part two with more fun with Susan and me. So let's get right back into it. All right, let's get off of reality TV and get onto our golden hotline where each week we answer questions from listeners and that we give them our expert golden advice. Okay, Susan, start us off here.

[Susan]

Okay. I've been dating this guy for about four months and on paper, he's everything I've been looking for. Stable job, super kind, treats me well. But I've noticed that, that I'm the one initiating almost everything. If I don't text first, we don't talk. If I don't suggest plans, we don't see each other. When we are together, he's fully present and affectionate, which is what's confusing me. Is this just his personality or am I ignoring a bigger issue with where I'm doing all the emotional labor?

[Kathy]

Lara from New York City, what do you think, Susan?

[Susan]

I think he's just slow and maybe doesn't know how to do it. I mean, I always, I want to see the positive in something before the negative. Like when he's there, he's fully present, he's affectionate. She's getting confused because she's doing all the planning. Some guys just aren't good planners. Or we have a conversation. If you, if he's good with that, you take the lead. If you're a type A, that should be no problem.

[Kathy]

Well, clearly it is, because she's saying, am I ignoring a bigger issue? She clearly was.

[Susan]

Somebody has said something.

[Kathy]

Yes, she clearly wants him to take some ownership in date planning. Here's what I'm going to say.

[Susan]

What does she mean by emotional labor?

[Kathy]

The emotional labor means she's taking it all on to plan the dates to for them to go to dinner, where they're gonna go for dinner. That takes emotional, right? I think that much as we've talked on other podcasts about this, men are used to being taken care of. It is a rare man that will make all the plants Most men are like, whatever you wanna do, honey. Where do you wanna go to dinner? Whatever you wanna do. So again, Laura, you gotta communicate with the guy and say, you know, I'm just feeling a little bit awkward here because I'm planning all the dates. You know, I'd love it says Laura, if you would plan a date or two and surprise me. I would love that. See if he does it. And now if he doesn't do it, then you might have a different problem on your hands. He's lazy. He doesn't want to do it. In which case you might not be a good match.

[Susan]

And I know myself, I would actually say, babe, if I don't text you, then we won't talk. Like, what is that? I'm starting to read between the lines. I'm getting in my own head. This is not a good place to be. So talk to me. Like you said, communication.

[Kathy]

But you, what you're saying is exactly what you would do and what I would do. Laura hasn't done it. And Laura, she needs to. Laura, here's the deal. Your boyfriend might be affectionate, loving, generous, all that, but you know what he can't do? He cannot read minds. So if you feel a certain way, you need to tell him and then see what happens, then you can.

[Susan]

Men are stupid. They don't get it.

[Kathy]

Big dumb animals.

[Susan]

We think about what they're thinking, what we're thinking, and what the person looking in.

[Kathy]

We're doing all the thinking, Susan. We do all the thinking. Let's just cut it there. All right, Laura, let us know. Hopefully it works out with you and your guy.

[Public Investing Announcer]

We.

[Kathy]

We wish you the best.

[Susan]

I think it's a good thing. I. I think this. He's fully present, affectionate, that's everything she needs. He's just lazy to talk to him.

[Dietz and Watson Announcer]

He's just lazy.

[Susan]

Okay.

[Kathy]

All right, here we go, the next one. This is from Kat in Washington D.C. i met someone at a friend's birthday party and we had insane chemistry right away. We've now been seeing each other for a few weeks, but I recently found out he got out of a long term relationship only two months ago. He says he's completely over it, but he still brings her up in little ways. I really like him, but I don't want to be someone's rebound. How do I tell the difference between someone who's ready to move on versus someone who just wants to be

[Susan]

okay, girlfriend, I'm like you. I'm struggling with it. I'm the wrong person to ask. Why?

[Kathy]

Because you Jump in.

[Susan]

Yeah, because that's, that's my style. Like if we have that insane chemistry, which I love that about meeting somebody and you jump in with both feet, not one foot where you. Kathy, I know you've tried to school me. Protect your heart. Protect your heart. I don't know how to do that.

[Kathy]

Well, no, no, no. I don't say to protect your heart. I, that's, that's a term I think Leslie used on a show with somebody. No, I never say protect your heart. I say take it slower. You jump in, go rush down. It's, it's, you need to just, in my mind, take it slower. Here's the thing though, with Cat. I get you, Susan. If you have insane chemistry, I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. Believe it or not, I know I'm going to surprise you saying this.

[Susan]

No, I agree.

[Kathy]

I don't think it's a bad thing that he got out of a long term relationship only two months ago. Because what we don't know, Kat, is maybe it was on the rocks for six months before that, you know, and it just like you, Susan, you said takes you a long time to get out of a relationship, so.

[Susan]

And I'm ready when I write somebody else.

[Kathy]

Right. So it may be that the only little question I have here is that she says that Cat says that he brings her up, the ex, up in little ways. I want to know what little ways are. So Cat, if he brings it up when you make him spaghetti bolognese and he sits down, he goes, you know, this sauce is, or whatever is so much better than my ex's. I got a problem with that. Yeah, that's not so. I would ask you. We never get all the full information, Kat, but I think you have to look at what the little things are. If it really, if it's something like you say, you know, I gosh, I love this sofa. It's so comfortable. And he laughingly says, well, I'm glad you like it, because my ex wouldn't even sit on it. That's, that's a small thing in my book. That's just him being funny. I think you have to look at what he is saying and in what

[Susan]

context and how often it is like it's still fresh in his mind. It's only two months. So it's like natural to say, you don't want to stop quickly and say, oh, you know, it depends on what he's saying. And I don't really want putting her down or trashing that person because that I couldn't tolerate.

[Kathy]

That's right. I don't really want to hear about. Right. The guys I'm dating, their exes, other than to exactly what you just said. If they're trashing. And, and you know, I've dated a guy who has an ex wife who I believe him, she's nuts and so he doesn't have many nice things to say about her.

[Susan]

But however, you don't want to hear it daily.

[Kathy]

No, I don't want to hear it daily. But I'm saying just in generally speaking, I don't want to hear an ex trashed. I think every once in a while somebody made a terrible mistake and, and it's just not going to go well. But Kat, I would, I would. Again, you might mention to him, hey, you know, you keep bringing up Ashley. I find it a little uncomfortable. If it bothers you cat, bring it up to your boyfriend.

[Susan]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

You agree?

[Susan]

Depends on how in little ways he says. So like I said, it could be just that it's still fresh, but I would give it a little time and if you really are struggling, then once again have a conversation.

[Kathy]

Yeah. Why is it. Let me just. Before we move on.

[Susan]

People are afraid to talk about things because maybe they don't want to know the answer.

[Kathy]

Sometimes women are afraid to ask. Men don't seem to ask. But women know the questions they want to ask. When we're answering these questions oftentimes, you know, if you're saying in these notes, these letters that we get, should I do this, should I do that? You're already telling us that you know

[Susan]

that, that you're thinking about it, you're thinking about.

[Kathy]

So you don't ask permission from us. Right.

[Susan]

And it makes you feel better when somebody else agrees with what you're thinking about doing.

[Kathy]

Right.

[Susan]

That's, that's normal.

[Kathy]

No, I agree with that. But I'm saying I think oftentimes women like you just said, are afraid of the answer or that they'd rather be with someone flawed, deeply flawed even, than

[Susan]

be by themselves and be with nobody. Yeah.

[Kathy]

Yeah. So I think it's, you know, it's complicated. I just wish that women had in general had more self confidence at every age. At every age. Because we can't be ruling the world.

[Susan]

If you really like them, hang in there, give it a little more time and maybe bring up a conversation.

[Kathy]

That's what things always tells me. Kathy, hang in there, give it more time. Susan. Susan's anthem. Her anthem is Kathy, give it more time.

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[Kathy]

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[Susan]

all right, the next one's from Amanda from Raleigh. I've been in a situationship for almost a year, and I feel like I've slowly become the cool girl who doesn't ask for too much. We hang out, we act like a couple, but every time I try to define the relationship, he says he doesn't want labels. Meanwhile, I know he's not seeing anyone else. I'm scared that if I push too hard, I'll lose him. But I'm also starting to feel resentful. How do I advocate for myself without blowing everything up? Oh, girlfriend, the word resentment.

[Kathy]

I was just gonna say, Susan, let me take the first stop on this one, because you are going to talk about resentment, but here's so you can talk. The resentment piece. The piece that I want to talk about is she identifies it. You know, situationship is the new word for. For 2026, 2025. It's all about situation chips. Here's the thing. We act like a couple. You know, I would say, are you sleeping together? Are you cooking together? Are you traveling together? Are you making plans together for future life? If you're doing those things, then maybe he's just a little slow to the game. But when a man says he doesn't want labels, you know what I hear, Susan? I don't hear anything about labels. I hear, Amanda, he doesn't want to commit. And. And. Because if he commits to you and

[Susan]

says, we are a couple, then what comes next?

[Kathy]

Exactly what comes next. And that, my friend, I believe, is where the resentment starts. So go ahead, take over.

[Susan]

Just the word resentment. Resentful. It happens to me when I'm in a relationship and I start feeling resentful.

[Kathy]

Wait, does it happen in a situationship or a relationship?

[Susan]

It doesn't matter. Once I feel resentment, there's no turning back for me. So if you're already starting to feel that. Does it say how long they've been seeing each other?

[Kathy]

A year. A year.

[Susan]

Okay, a year.

[Kathy]

Almost a year.

[Susan]

Once again, here I go. I sound like a broken record. You have to communicate. Say, babe, I'm not trying to put a label.

[Kathy]

Yes, yes.

[Susan]

But do tell me why you're saying you don't want a label on it. What does that mean to you?

[Kathy]

I can tell you.

[Susan]

What's the word? Label. We're. We're a couple, are we not? You know, just be frank, and if you're Afraid to lose him? Would you rather keep him and be resentful?

[Kathy]

What did I just say 5 minutes ago? On another question, Women sometimes would rather put up with indecisiveness because you're insecure. Where you and I would never.

[Susan]

And it's easy to say it because I'm standing here reading it and talking about it, but when it comes in, you're standing in that situation. It is much more difficult because you are fearful, you are having a good time. You really like this person, everything's great. And then what happens? After a year, people start saying, oh, it's serious. You know, are you gonna end up moving in together? Maybe she feels uncomfortable with those questions because he won't put a label on it.

[Kathy]

Well, a label to me. I told you, take the word label out. He won't commit. That's really what we're talking.

[Susan]

Does he call you his girlfriend?

[Kathy]

Who cares? Susan, first of all, the other thing

[Susan]

is just a friend in a situationship.

[Kathy]

We don't know how old Amanda is. If Amanda's 21 and she wants a whole. If you're 31, Amanda, you know, it might be time to move on because he's, he's not. He's being covert. Overt would be, hey, are we a couple or not? Because, you know, I want to know where we stand. But he's covertly saying, hey, I like it right where it is.

[Susan]

Well, that's also, Also, you could get the feeling like, well, he's keeping himself available in case something better comes along. You know, you start overthinking, that's where your head's going to go.

[Kathy]

And that's where the. That's so Amanda, I, I again, we don't know how old you are, and that, to me, makes a huge difference. But if you want commitment, you can't give a guy ever an ultimatum. You can never say, are we a couple? Are we going to commit or not? Because you know what he's going to say?

[Susan]

No. You can say a commitment. Commitment is if we're sleeping with each other. You're not sleeping with anybody.

[Kathy]

He doesn't like labels. He doesn't want.

[Susan]

That's not a label.

[Kathy]

Yes, it is.

[Susan]

You are only sleeping with me, and I am only sleeping with you. You can call it anything you want, but if you think you would go elsewhere and have sex with somebody else, then we're out.

[Kathy]

I don't.

[Susan]

Label or no label.

[Kathy]

I don't think it's in, in my opinion, Amanda's not just talking about sex here. She's talking about everything that comes with a committed relationship and his out. So I don't think it's just about sex. His out is I don't like labels. And again, I'm going to say it one more time.

[Susan]

Why would one say that, though, Kath, what. What brings. Because he does what comes to mind.

[Kathy]

I can tell you. He likes things the way they are. He doesn't want to commit. Because if once you commit, like you said, then you're moving on to the next thing, which you're expected. Oh, you know, now we're a couple, and now we're 29, and now we should probably should be getting engaged or moving in together. And you know what? He probably likes it just the way it is. In short, he doesn't want commitment. So, Amanda, if you're 21. If you're 21, enjoy the sex, have fun, and you'll find your guy probably in about 10 years, if you're 31, that you might think differently and just

[Susan]

give it a little more time.

[Kathy]

Oh, Jesus.

[Susan]

Until that resentment where it really stands out. And then you got to tell them. Tell them the truth.

[Kathy]

Well, Susan, I got to say to you, I don't like labels either. But for those of you who do, you can label your questions. If you like that transition, you can submit all your questions to us. All you have to do is go to bachelornation.com golden hour. Please submit your questions, your comments, your thoughts, anything you think about the questions we've answered. Maybe you've got thoughts on it.

[Susan]

And if you feel like we're saying something wrong, write us and tell us, because most people do. I get a lot of things. Oh, their podcast. Your podcast was so good. Good. When Kathy said this and you said this, I love hearing that.

[Kathy]

One thing for sure. Susan and I always have opinions. So come back each week. Listen to us. We may answer your question, we may not. But we're going to have fun trying.

[Susan]

Okay, here comes some fun stuff. This one's called Grandma Googles it.

[Kathy]

How about Kiki and Mimi? Kiki and Mimi. How about set of Grandma? Kiki and Mimi.

[Susan]

Yeah, Kiki and Mimi. All right, Kathy and I are back with Grandma's Googles.

[Kathy]

Oh, God.

[Susan]

Where we break down slang words that people are using in dating and pop culture. I wonder if Kathy knows them all. She probably knows more than I do.

[Kathy]

Oh, you know, I, I these. I knew one of them, but here we go. The first one is looks maxing. Okay, it's hard to say, but it is an online subculture focused on extreme Self improvement to maximize one's physical attractiveness. Primarily targeting young, ranging from grooming and dieting, which you could consider soft maxing, to dangerous, unverified methods like jawline altering, bone smashing, or plastic surgery, which we considered hard maxing. Okay, I had not heard of this before.

[Susan]

I didn't hear that word before, but it makes sense how they describe it

[Kathy]

on the, on, on Instagram. Particularly with the young ones, it's all about flexing their muscles, working out, lifting weights. I do it in the gym because I'm all about people our age getting fit, not having osteoporosis, lifting weights, all that stuff. But I, I don't do it for look smacking. Like, hey, people are going to say, look at her, the cut in her arms. But I do think a lot of young people do it. So what do you think? Are we adding?

[Susan]

It says, like, how do you think it's affecting young people? I remember growing up, everybody was heroin chic, if you will. Skinny, skinny, Twiggy, bone, bone thin.

[Kathy]

People don't know what Twiggy is. Susan. Pardon, people. Twiggy was a model in the 60s and 70s. Blonde, thin as a real. Okay, carry on.

[Susan]

But supermodels were skinny, flat chested, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was tough on young people because everybody wanted to look like they did on magazines or commercials. And it, it became an issue. Just like today. All of this looks. How. What is it looks? Maxing. People, young, young people want to have stuff done to their face. I mean, at 20 years old, I don't even know if you're done developing yet.

[Kathy]

No, but here's the thing. Social media, as we all know, tells the story and the looks of who we want to be, not who we necessarily are. It shows the highlights of our lives. So I with, I'm with you, Susan. That again, we're agreeing that people are spending, young people are spending. I don't care if you call it looks maxing, you know, I don't care

[Susan]

what you call it.

[Kathy]

Maxing.

[Susan]

Everything bones. I don't care.

[Kathy]

Hard maxing, soft maxing, I don't care. I think it speaks to a culture of people never being satisfied with who they are altering themselves. The point is, you know, if, if little is good, more is better. And that's what I think has happened. People have taken it. That's why it's called maxing in my book. They've taken it to the max, to the extreme. You know, I saw it on Bachelor in Paradise. They didn't show it all, but these Young people, Leslie and I are doing our hundred pushups in the beach. Not to flex muscles. We're doing it to be fit so that we can live healthfully, you know, as we age.

[Susan]

Yes.

[Kathy]

Some of the young ones, I'm telling, they're greasing up their arms, they're pumping iron because they want that look. And they're eating only protein. Like, God, what they're doing to their bodies like that, to me, is a whole dynamic of a subculture today of. And I think it's. I think it's, you know, it's. It's more about wanting that chiseled, you know, that, that look. I wish people would focus as much on being kind and.

[Susan]

And I don't think there's anything wrong with self improvement.

[Kathy]

I don't.

[Susan]

Making yourself look the best that you can, to a point, not to the extreme. I think that's where we draw the line.

[Kathy]

But your extreme is somebody else's normal or average. So I don't know. But I think, I think that, you know, it's. Let me say this. It's gonna put a lot. You and I are very comfortable in who we are. We, we, yes. We've had, you know, lower face. Yeah. Nipping and tucking, all that.

[Susan]

But, you know, I do it for me.

[Kathy]

But also, you and I are. We accept our age. We want to look the best we can, feel the best we can, but we are self confident about who we are. It concerns me a little bit that this younger, these youngins, that's what I call anybody under the age of, you know, 40. They're doing such drastic things to themselves because they're not satisfied with who they are. And that speaks to a lack of self confidence, a lack of authenticity, a

[Susan]

lack of they're doing it for the wrong reasons.

[Kathy]

That's. Yeah. So, okay, moving on to the next one.

[Susan]

All right, the next word is floodlighting.

[Kathy]

Those are the things that are on our. On our roof that we turn on at night.

[Dietz and Watson Announcer]

I just received my order from Dietz and Watson. I am so excited. I got chicken sausages and flavored cheddar cheeses. You know, I'm from New England and I know a genuine New York State cheddar when I see it. They are infused with real ingredients, iconic flavors, and a smooth, creamy finish. I think my favorite one was the champagne cheddar. It just is delicious. And the chicken sausage, they never have antibiotics. No nitrates are added. They're gluten free, and they have bold, authentic recipes. Dietz and Watson has been handcrafting premium meats and artisan cheeses for over 85 years. They're family owned and operated and they've never cut corners.

[Kathy]

Ever.

[Dietz and Watson Announcer]

They're transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't and they know good taste doesn't need a long list of ingredients. Dietz and Watson is simply made. It's as simple as that. Visit dietzandwatson.com therightway to learn more about the Dietz difference.

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[Dr. Jake Goodman]

Ever been at a pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks, do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you see most answering the questions you wish you'd asked, like which medications might not mix well, what vaccines you should consider before a big trip, and even those questions you are too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers, and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Arm and Hammer Announcer]

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[Susan]

over sharing super Deep Stuff Way Too Early. So how soon is too soon to start sharing deep parts of your life?

[Kathy]

I have this is such an easy question for me. When you, you and Nancy, the three of us, like we got right down to it, we started sharing.

[Susan]

I'm an oversharer.

[Kathy]

So am I. But not when I'm dating you. And I remember we talked about this like I asked you when should I tell people that my husband died by suicide? And you know, in the beginning I would tell them on the first date because it was just like the elephant in the room. I wanted to get it out. And then I realized that was a lot. You know, that was a lot for people. Just they didn't know me. Right.

[Susan]

Right.

[Kathy]

So I think it depends on the relationship. I tell you anything. I tell Nancy anything because I know you guys love me and I love other and I trust you and I know that anything I say, you're not going to judge me. You're just going to say give him more time. But. But in a date in the Dating world floodlighting I think can be dangerous because you, we have to remember that when you're going on a date or meeting someone for the first time, scare

[Susan]

the out of somebody.

[Kathy]

Scare the out of them. If you, if you share too much early. What about you? Because I know you're an overshadow.

[Susan]

A question reads have you ever had a moment where you've overshared and it affected the outcome of the date? I have. I definitely.

[Kathy]

Tell me, tell me your story.

[Susan]

I was, he was asking questions which I do like when someone asks. But I was telling them I was just coming out of my boys being at their worst and, and shared what they went through, what I went through and I think it scared the shit out of them. I never heard from them again.

[Kathy]

I, I, I, the only time I remember was that somebody walked away was early on after, you know, I just wasn't myself. I've talked, we've talked about this the first few years after my husband died. No, but, so I, I just wasn't thinking rationally. But I remember telling a guy and I never heard from him again, which made me feel awful. Not because he couldn't handle it, but I felt shame that

[Susan]

you were the cause.

[Kathy]

Well, maybe because. No, because people talk about things that we don't talk about. Suicide. We don't talk about those things. Right. Those are topics that we stay away from. And so when he didn't call me back I was like it underscored the fact that. Yeah, see, you shouldn't talk about suicide. Suicide. Which is totally wrong. We should be talking about. Yeah, I'm saying but that so, but not everybody's. Yeah, not everyone. And people find it uncomfortable. So you know, I don't know.

[Susan]

So this is, I probably floodlight a lot because it says what's the craziest thing you've ever said on I'll say anything because I don't. I've been, I understand that I can't alter who I am. I need to be who I really am. I or they're not going to know the real me. I can't fake to be some way or something that I'm not. They need to know this is it. What you see is what you get.

[Kathy]

I agree. But I'm starting to evolve a little bit differently. You and I are a lot. I've had men tell me it, you know, men say it. I love you, Kathy.

[Susan]

Very self dependent.

[Kathy]

You're a, you know, you're a Yankee vibe. I love that, that you're not, you know, bless your Little heart that you say what you mean and mean what you say. However, I think I'm speaking for myself. I am learning to not be unauthentic. I'm just learning to rein myself in a little bit. When I first meet.

[Susan]

Don't say too much.

[Kathy]

Yeah. Don't be too much myself because I know I have a lot of energy, but I don't want to suck the energy out of a room. You know, when I date a guy and I don't want to scare off a guy that I find potentially interesting because what have I told you? Men always tell me they're looking for independent, smart, athletic, good looking woman who has opinions. Hello, there I am.

[Susan]

And they really don't want that.

[Kathy]

And they really don't want that. So, so I, I try to be authentically.

[Susan]

Why do you think that is, Kathy? Why do men say that but not really mean it?

[Kathy]

Because I believe men want to be in control.

[Susan]

Exactly.

[Kathy]

And I don't want to feel needed. No.

[Susan]

And trust me, I'll need you.

[Kathy]

Yeah, I'll need you. But I want to walk hand in hand with you.

[Susan]

I don't want you meeting me.

[Kathy]

I don't want you behind me. I don't want you in front of me. And I don't, I just don't think men want to be needed. They want to take care of us. You and I have talked about this mention again mentioning no names. I have talked to some of our golden people and the, some of the men have said to me, yeah, I need to know that, you know, I want a woman who needs me financially. Who need. And I'm like, what? And I said that's because then that gives you control. If you financially supporting her, then you are controlling her. And you and I, Susan, don't want to be controlled in that way.

[Susan]

I don't ever want to be controlled. I want to be able to share what I want to do. And you give me your opinion and vice versa.

[Kathy]

Yes.

[Susan]

I can't tell you what to do unless it's a negative thing that annoys me. Then I gotta share it with you. I really wish you wouldn't do this because I get, I feel a certain way and same. If I did something I would want my partner to say, Susan, could you not do that or not talk like that or whatever the situation is, then you respect where it's coming from. I don't take it offensively. When you're really care about somebody and you're, you're trying to share something that really bothers you that they Do. Yeah, that I understand. But I'll come full force and I have been told just do less.

[Kathy]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think sometimes I scare off guys. Same I've had golden. My golden male friends have said to me, kathy, if guys would take the time to get to know you, well,

[Susan]

they would love you.

[Kathy]

Yeah, well, you know, if, if pigs had wings, they'd fly. I mean there's. That's the answer to that. But I do think I have to ask you. I think what we're talking about, it's like having sex on the first date. You know, it's kind of that same thing. Sure. You can do. May not play well for you. I mean, that's like giving. Your floodlighting to me is giving over sharing your. Yourself. And that means physically too. And I just, you know, I don't think it's always a good idea.

[Susan]

I, I think it's like deep secrets or things that were a crisis maybe in your life at some point, you don't share that right away. Some things are better left unsaid.

[Kathy]

Always or just on a first date.

[Susan]

Always. Some things are better left unsaid. And I learned that the hard way.

[Kathy]

I will say to you, I agree with you.

[Susan]

People will judge you for saying something. They might judge you because they weren't there. They don't know how you felt about whatever it is that you're sharing. But maybe sometimes you just don't say anything at all. I, I used to believe in that and I still kind of do. What we don't know don't hurt us.

[Kathy]

Yeah. I think, I think I will tell you. There are things about my marriage and I love you dearly and you know more about me than most people do. But there are things that I will never share because I'm not proud of

[Susan]

it or it's nobody's business or just

[Kathy]

I feel like it is. It, it's. It's not paying respect to my deceased husband and there are bad things about him. I'm just. Doesn't have to be private. It's private things that I will never share with. You know when they say if I find my guy, oh, we're going to share a life together. Yeah. But that doesn't mean. To your point that you have to share every.

[Susan]

And also, Kathy, when a man and you're on a date or a couple dates and they gripe or about their exes and they go on and on, that's oversharing. Man, you are turning me off.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

I don't want to hear it, you know?

[Kathy]

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I. But, you know, I think it also comes down to sometimes, you know, men, typically, there's always exceptions. Men don't have friends the way women have friends.

[Susan]

They don't talk. Like we don't talk.

[Kathy]

They don't. I mean, there's. There's exceptions to that.

[Susan]

Yes, yes.

[Kathy]

But I do think that, that you and I, we can. I. And we've done it where I can climb and say, I just need to vent, Susan, and I will.

[Susan]

And, and sometimes I'll tell you things that you're not happy with, but I needed to talk to you about. I needed to get it out.

[Public Investing Announcer]

Right.

[Kathy]

And. And, but that's what. But I don't think men do that. And so they hold it in more.

[Susan]

That's how they're raised.

[Kathy]

Well, but then when they. But that's where the oversharing, I think, comes from. I don't think. I, I'm not even sure they see it as over sharing. You know, I don't know.

[Susan]

I, I just know oversharing forms, that they form an opinion and it's too soon. They don't really know who you are yet. And oversharing, they're going to form opinions.

[Kathy]

Oh, you mean if I'm over sharing, you mean.

[Susan]

I'm not saying you particularly. Like, if I over share with some things with somebody new.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

They're going to think of me as a certain way where I thought it was funny. You know what I mean? They're not going to think.

[Kathy]

Right.

[Susan]

Oh, this one's a little.

[Kathy]

And you know why I think that's true, Susan? Because I think relationships, yes, chemistry is important. And you and I have talked about. We feel chemistry. If we feel chemistry, we want to go down the road. And chemistry for both of us is pretty immediate. Or not. But I do think that not sharing too much too soon is actually advantageous for a development of a relationship.

[Susan]

Yes, it is. I agree with that. I really do.

[Kathy]

Now, can you find me a relationship?

[Susan]

Anybody that doesn't agree with that, let me know.

[Kathy]

Yeah, we'd like to hear. I mean, I would like to have the relationship with a guy that I could have these conversations with instead of having to call you, Susan, and talk to you about it.

[Susan]

We always will. Okay. That's what girlfriends do.

[Kathy]

I know that's right.

[Dietz and Watson Announcer]

Now.

[Kathy]

Well, this is.

[Susan]

Speaking of which girlfriends play golf together. Now, we got to come up with a plan. I know you live 45 states away, but I'll meet you in the middle this year. I need to play. Hey, my game's not going to get any better.

[Kathy]

I got new clubs last year. I think I've used them once. I think we should go to North Carolina. We're going to get Nancy to get some golf lessons. We're going to go. There's beautiful golf courses, a lot of them in North Carolina.

[Susan]

I know there are.

[Kathy]

So let's do it.

[Susan]

I'm ready. We got to set a time here.

[Kathy]

Susan, could you imagine here you and I are having show ideas all the time. Could you imagine a golf show of people following us playing golf together? I mean that.

[Susan]

I've said it before, Kath. If they follow us around with a camera and we'd have a hit show just being us. Okay, well, cute on the golf course. I could guarantee that.

[Kathy]

Oh, definitely. I got, you know what? I've got like a whole rack in my closet of just golf stuff and I'm looking.

[Susan]

I have a whole section.

[Kathy]

I don't just.

[Susan]

I want to wear them. Okay.

[Kathy]

So, so. But before we, you know, head off to play golf, we have to wrap up this. Unfortunately, we have to wrap up this episode of Golden Hour. But thank you to all of our listeners for joining us. We love that you listen. We love that you send in your questions and comments and we hope that you come back to hear more.

[Susan]

Absolutely. Make sure you rate us, review us, and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Kathy]

And you can follow Golden Hour on social media at Bachelor Happy Hour and at Bachelor Nation. Okay.

[Susan]

Absolutely. Until then, we'll talk to you next week.

[Kathy]

Until then, have a great week.

[Dietz and Watson Announcer]

I just received my order from Dietz and Watson. I am so excited. I got chicken sausages and flavored cheddar cheeses. I think my favorite one was the champagne cheddar. Dietz and Watson has been handcrafting premium meats and artisan cheeses for over 85 years. They're family owned and operated and they've never cut corners.

[Kathy]

Ever.

[Dietz and Watson Announcer]

Dietz and Watson is simply made. It's as simple as that. Visit dietzandwatson.com the right way to learn more about the deets difference.

[Trashy Announcer]

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[Dr. Jake Goodman]

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[Kathy]

drop to treat blurry near vision for

[Dr. Jake Goodman]

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[Arm and Hammer Announcer]

I am definitely not someone who likes doing laundry. Yeah, I don't think there is anyone who does. Whether you put your stinky gym clothes in with your delicates, forgot a load of clothes in the washer for a few days, or haven't washed your favorite jeans in far too long, you're not alone. Luckily, Arm and Hammer Deep Clean is here to help. Arm and Hammer Deep Clean is the powerful shortcut that forgives your own shortcuts. It's made for real life stinking stains. Because it's just laundry, you shouldn't stress over it. And now you don't have to. From the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm and Hammer Deep Clean Number one claim based on total wash loads sold.

[Susan]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.