Kathy & Susan on Plastic Surgery and Divorce | Golden Hour

Summary

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Bachelor Happy Hour Golden Hour

Episode: Kathy & Susan on Plastic Surgery and Divorce
Date: December 10, 2025
Hosts: Kathy and Susan (Bachelor Nation alumni)

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Episode Overview

This episode of “Bachelor Happy Hour: Golden Hour” dives into the big decisions women face as they age—focusing on cosmetic surgery, parenting adult children, and navigating divorce later in life. Kathy and Susan offer candid, funny, and heartfelt insight into their own experiences, illustrating how life’s toughest choices evolve with time but never really get easier. Their banter covers everything from choosing not to interfere with grown children’s lives to the emotional complexity of ending a marriage and the liberating reasons behind embracing plastic surgery.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature of Big Decisions as We Age

• Decisions seem fewer, but weightier: Kathy reflects that while maybe there are less decisions later in life, “they seem bigger.” (04:12)
• Parenting grown children—a new kind of challenge: Both hosts discuss the struggle of knowing when to give advice or intervene in their adult children’s lives.
  • Kathy: “Deciding when to speak up to my kids and say, ‘You’re doing this wrong,’ it really takes a lot now for me to say.” (07:09)

2. Cosmetic Surgery: Motivations, Experiences & Social Pressures

• Personal empowerment: Both women are open about having had cosmetic procedures and view them as empowering personal choices, not done out of pressure or to please others.
  • Susan: “Absolutely not [a hard decision]. Once again—because it’s something I want.” (08:46)
  • Kathy: “You and I... we do it because it makes us feel better.” (08:52)
• Social perceptions and industry standards:
  • Kathy addresses societal youth obsession: “We live in a youth culture, and so we’re all chasing that eternal fountain of youth.” (10:08)
  • Susan pushes back: “When you put your age down, you can’t cosmetically change that. Your age is your age.” (10:24)
• Self-esteem and reality of results:
  • Both reflect that the results are subtle but noticeable, and ultimately self-affirming.
  • Susan shares how seeing herself on TV post-surgery validated her decision:
    “When I saw my face, I go, ‘Oh my gosh, thank God I did that.’” (12:11)
  • Humor and honesty about body image:
    • Kathy jokes: “If I wore a bikini, everyone would have said, ‘She needs to tie up all her skin, like a pantyhose, and cut the knot.’” (12:27)

3. Divorce: Why, When, and How

• Delaying divorce for children:
  • Susan shares she stayed in her marriage until her kids graduated high school, even though she knew “many, many years ago” it wouldn’t last. (20:34)
  • She sometimes regrets waiting, wondering how life could have been different if she left earlier.
• Children’s perception:
  • Upon finally separating, her sons asked, “Mom, why did you wait so long? We knew you’d been unhappy for so long.” (21:37)
• Therapy and self-reflection:
  • Susan did not pursue therapy before divorcing, but did so after. She sees therapy as most useful for people who “hold everything in.” (23:24)
  • Kathy relates her own experience with grief therapy after her husband’s suicide, reflecting on the ways deep loss ripples through family life. (22:57)
• Breaking up when no one’s ‘at fault’:
  • Susan: “You hit a point where you realize, I’m not that happy. What am I doing? Why am I here?” (24:11)
  • The women discuss how divorce isn’t always bitter; amicable, respectful endings are possible, especially for the sake of children. (25:12)

4. Supporting Adult Children Through Life’s Crossroads

• Guidance, not directives:
  • Kathy describes shifting from telling her kids what to do, to “holding up a mirror” and helping them reflect on their own feelings and priorities. (43:04, 44:18)
  • “I try not to tell them what to do anymore. I try to give them... I would try to get her to talk about it...” (43:55)
• Intergenerational differences:
  • The hosts note that today’s young adults face more volatility—career changes, job market uncertainty, making big life decisions earlier and more often. (27:27–29:12)
• On education and careers:
  • Both encourage finding a fulfilling path, but Kathy reminds that “not everyone has that luxury,” and career trajectories look very different now. (30:09)
  • “I believe in varied experiences… adults have the best chance of making good decisions if they’re given the opportunity to think problems through.” (38:15)
• Letting kids make mistakes:
  • Kathy: “Very few big decisions in life are not irreversible…fear stops a lot of people from making big decisions.” (38:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kathy on the shifting parental role:
  • “I am always going to be their mother. But my role has changed.” (06:50)
• Susan on cosmetic surgery:
  • “Absolutely not [hard to decide]. Because it’s something I want.” (08:46)
• Kathy on societal pressure:
  • “We live in a youth culture, and so we’re all chasing that eternal fountain of youth.” (10:08)
• Susan, humorously self-aware, on her habits:
  • “Eating right will never be in my vocabulary, but I eat good and bad.” (11:49)
• Susan to Kathy:
  • “You don’t speak up with anybody else that I see.” (06:39)
• Kathy, advice for supporting adult kids:
  • “I try to hold up a mirror to her of what she’s saying… try to get her to talk about it.” (44:14)
• Susan on divorce:
  • “We both grew different ways and we’re still friends today.” (21:12)
• On parenting philosophy:
  • Kathy: “I believe in varied experiences… [and that] adults have the best chance of making good decisions if, as children and teenagers, they’re given the opportunity to think problems through.” (38:15)
• On the inevitability of getting it wrong sometimes:
  • Kathy: “Sometimes you make the wrong choice. And that’s okay. The biggest thing is picking up the pieces, moving on, and making the next best choice you can.” (46:14)
• Susan adds comic relief:
  • “I do make the wrong decision. Always wearing the cool ass shoes that hurt all night long. It was a bad choice.” (46:27)

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Key Timestamps by Segment

• 03:48 – Show intro, holiday chit-chat, and episode topic set-up
• 04:12 – Kathy and Susan discuss how their big decisions have changed with age
• 06:12 – Speaking up (or not) to adult children; boundaries in advice-giving
• 08:23 – Cosmetic surgery: motivations and stories
• 10:06 – Societal pressure for youth, especially for women
• 12:11 – Post-surgery self-perceptions and reflections
• 19:39 – Kathy initiates talk about divorce, Susan’s candid sharing
• 21:37 – Susan’s sons reflect on her delayed divorce
• 22:57 – Therapy after loss and divorce
• 27:27 – Modern career and life pressures for adult children
• 38:15 – Guiding young adults through decision-making, mistakes, and experience
• 44:14 – How to support adult children making tough choices
• 46:14 – Accepting imperfect decisions and finding humor
• 46:27 – Susan’s quip about “wrong decisions” with shoes!
• 47:19 – Outro, call for listener feedback/questions

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Tone & Style

• Warm, candid, humorous: The hosts blend heartfelt advice with lots of playful teasing and self-deprecating jokes.
• Relatable, conversational: Listeners easily feel like they’re chatting with friends who tell it like it is, both about their vulnerabilities and victories.
• Empowering & supportive: Stories are framed to encourage listeners—especially women facing crossroads—to act authentically, seek joy, and not fear change or mistakes.

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Takeaways

• Big decisions never really get easier—they just change form.
• It’s okay to pivot, make “wrong” choices, and course-correct.
• Supporting loved ones is about listening, reflecting, and equipping—not dictating.
• There’s power and freedom in making choices for yourself—be it surgery, divorce, or career moves.
• And when in doubt? Make sure your shoes are comfortable.

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Submit your questions:
Go to bachelornation.com/goldenhour or follow @BachelorHappyHour on social media to join the conversation.

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Transcript

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[Susan]

Welcome back, everybody, to Bachelor Happy Hours golden hour. We're back again, and thanks so much for joining us again. Kathy, are you so excited to be here?

[Kathy]

I mean, I am so happy to be here. I am all decorated for Christmas. I am done with Thanksgiving. I'm on to the next holiday. I'm healthy. I've been sick. I'm healthy again. It's all good.

[Susan]

It's all good.

[Kathy]

It's all good. Okay, today we're going to get into making big decisions, whether it's cosmetic breakups or anything in between. And you know what, Susan? A lot goes in to making tough choices. And I hate to say this, but as you and I get older, it seems like we have maybe less decisions, but they seem bigger. Does that make sense?

[Susan]

I don't know if there's less.

[Kathy]

I don't know. I feel like the decisions I make are momentous.

[Susan]

Like they're different, maybe than when we were raising kids, but they're still decisions, if you will.

[Kathy]

All right, well, tell me.

What'S the biggest decision you've made lately?

[Susan]

I mean, not to scream at my daughter when I was visiting.

[Kathy]

Let me help y' all out here. As you all know, Susan is a clean freak. We're gonna cut to the end of this story. Her daughter is not. And Susan, my granddaughter.

[Susan]

Oh, gosh, it was her 13th birthday. I scrubbed from morning until dusk.

[Kathy]

Okay, so your big decision, to not scream, but the other big decision you made, which I don't think is a big decision at all, is to clean the house instead of spending time with your family. You made the decision to clean her house.

[Susan]

I had to. I had to. I couldn't relax. But then I did spend time with them, of course. But you know, 13 year olds aren't always happy and that's a lot. And then to make another decision, my daughter went all out and did this surprise. And Bella comes home from school and she was miserable. And Brittany's like, really, Bella?

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Really?

[Susan]

And I want it so badly to put my 2 cents in there, but it's not.

[Kathy]

Okay, so you are reading my mind. One of the biggest decisions that I have faced.

It'S a decision category, if you will, about children. When do we, can we. When should we say things to our children and our grandchildren? Because our children are now adults. Right? And we for me, deciding when to speak up to my kids and say, you're doing this wrong. I'll give you one example.

[Susan]

Tell me something. You actually refrain.

[Kathy]

Yes.

[Susan]

And I'm surprised because you don't with anybody else that I see.

[Kathy]

Well, I'll tell you, I. After talking to my kids.

And, and realizing that I am, I am always going to be their mother. I'm always going to be my children's mother. But my role has changed. And so the way I make decisions about spending time with my kids, watching the way they live, the truth is.

It really takes a lot now for me to say, you're doing that wrong.

[Susan]

Or you don't say that, period.

[Kathy]

Well, no, I do. I actually do. My daughter lets my 2 year old, 2 and a half year old granddaughter, she used to let her sort of wander around eating off, whatever, just kind of wandering around the floor eating. And I said to her, you know, you really should have her sit in her high chair. She needs to learn that dying. Well, it's where you eat, but it's also a social time. It's where you interact with your family. There's more down. And she kind of looked at me.

Because I don't speak up very often. You know, kids have the right to raise their children. And so for me, making my big decision, if you will, was making the decision to zip it, zip my mouth and not say very much unless my kids ask me.

[Susan]

And occasionally they do my big decision. Do I need to purchase that? Do I really need this?

[Kathy]

Susan, come on now, fess up. I Just fessed up.

[Susan]

And that decision is always on my side.

[Kathy]

Yeah, Susan always needs it. Those are never big decisions for Susan. It's a matter of how fast you can click the button, purchase. Okay, what about as we've gotten older, you and I, we've made no bones about it. We've both done some cosmetic surgery. I'm thinking about doing some more, but let's. Was that hard for you to decide to do it?

[Susan]

Absolutely not. Me either, because it's something I want. Once again.

[Kathy]

Okay, so to me, my experience in talking to people about it is you can do cosmetic surgery for a few reasons. One could be for yourself. You feel better. And that's our reason. I know, because you and I have talked about it. We do it because it makes us feel better. Other people do it because they want to attract a man or a partner or they want a job where they think they have to look old or they're afraid of getting old. For me, it wasn't a hard decision because to do it because I knew it would make me feel better.

[Susan]

And look, I think, and I, I disagree with that statement you made. You think some people do it to attract the man or get a job. The only reason they're doing it is for them to feel better about themselves. Then if they feel better, they will attract the man or get the job. You know what I'm saying?

[Kathy]

I'm not saying they won't feel. I, I, maybe I misstated it. I'm not saying they won't feel better. I'm saying they feel pressure to do it for, you know, we have a culture in our, in our world, in our society of youth, everything has to be youth. You have to.

[Susan]

Especially if you're on tv.

[Kathy]

Well, in general, in the workplace, you know, how many old newscasters do you see? Women? We see older men. We don't see older women. We live in a youth culture, and so we're all chasing that eternal fountain of youth.

[Susan]

True. But when you put your age down, you can't cosmetically change that. Your age is your age.

[Kathy]

Well, your age is your age. But I'm saying the way people view you. So if you, if someone looks at you and you. And I've had this conversation for, for me deciding to do that lower facelift with you. First of all, I hate to say it, but I thought, oh, this will be an adventure with Susan. It was like, this will be fun. I mean, I never, you know, I used to make jokes about I could never have a facelift. Could you imagine? I did. And I die.

[Susan]

You said that. You actually said that.

[Kathy]

Listen, but I'll tell you why I.

[Susan]

Used to say, I can't wait.

[Kathy]

I used to say it. I'll tell you why. Because I thought if I die on the table, God forbid. I know, I think, could you imagine my children, my mother, she thought she had to go get a facelift and now we're burying her. And of course I, I now I'm like, oh, well, if that happens, it happens. But for me, do you think it.

[Susan]

Impacts people's self esteem?

[Kathy]

I can't speak for anyone but me. I feel better when I'm fit. I feel better when I have makeup on. I feel better when I look my best. So for me, I think you and I, if we're being honest, we are all have bought in to the youth society to a degree. I don't just do looks, I do it with health, eating right, working out all those things.

[Susan]

Eating right will never be in my vocabulary, but I eat good and bad. But like for instance, when we went, kathy, I thought, okay, it's time, I got to do this. And it's just the minor one that, what do they call it, a lifestyle? It's just the lower half, but it's not that invasive. I mean, it's still surgery, but.

I never realized when I watched one of the Bachelor episodes from before and then I saw myself on Got to get out. Yeah, when I saw my face, I go, oh my gosh, thank God I did that.

[Kathy]

Listen, it could have been worse. When I was on Paradise, I could have worn a bikini. And then everyone would have said she needs to cut all her skin, tie it up over her head like a knot, like a pantyhose, and cut the knot.

[Susan]

But no, seriously, after our surgery, did you feel like, oh, I look amazing. I didn't, I didn't. It was a slight thing, but when after seeing myself, I go, oh, it was more than.

[Kathy]

It looks way better. I know. Well, you and I, I think we can round this conversation by you and I do it because it makes us feel better.

[Host 1]

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[Susan]

July?

[Host 2]

I mean, no, never. Like, I. I like to shop. Actually, I like to shop on Christmas Eve because I find that to be a little more festive.

[Host 1]

But you, like, start decorating right after Halloween?

[Host 2]

No, after Thanksgiving. Okay, that's different. That's different. Halloween? No, not Halloween.

[Host 1]

You know, I consider myself to be a pretty good gift giver. I've got my list and I've checked.

[Host 2]

It twice, probably three times. She takes the holidays very seriously.

[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

Nintendo at Walmart. Who knew?

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[Host 2]

How much more shopping? Oh boy.

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[Susan]

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[Susan]

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[Kathy]

I want to ask you because I don't have this in my life, and I've always wanted to ask you this, and today's the day. So my husband died. There was no decision for me to make.

People our age.

Even. Even now, people are still making the choice to get divorced at any age. 30, 40, 50, 60, 70. I want to know if you're comfortable talking about it. How did you make that tough decision to get divorced? And let me before you answer, any decision you make, my husband's suicide, it didn't just affect me. It's a ripple effect, right? It affects my children, our friendships, everything. When you divorced your husband.

What did you consider? I mean, of course you did. But talk to me about the considerations in making that decision.

[Susan]

So a lot of people realize that the marriage is not going to make it. And I did many, many years ago. But I made the decision to hang in and pretend till my children were out of high school. I sometimes kick myself for it. Maybe I would have found, you know, love of my life when I was in my 40s or, you know, whatever. But I made that decision because we weren't people that argued or fought. We both grew different ways and we're still friends today.

So to answer your question, I didn't make the decision. I didn't follow through. I wish I had my life. Although I've had a good life, I don't know what it would have been like with three kids on my own.

[Kathy]

Well, so you thought. It sounds like you're saying you made the decision to stay because you thought it was in the best interest of your children.

[Susan]

Absolutely.

[Kathy]

And then you. Well, so that was your decision making process.

[Susan]

When my boys, when we finally did actually separate, we weren't even divorced yet. And my boys came up to me and said, mom, why did you wait so long? We knew you've been unhappy for a long, many, many years. And I go, what? Because of you guys. I mean, they go, mom, you didn't have to do that. Like, it's funny how your kids don't even. You don't you think you know what's going through their heads, but we don't.

[Kathy]

Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. Did you get any therapy before or after the divorce?

[Susan]

Not before, after. Yes, I've gone to therapy a couple different times for a while in my life.

What I found with therapy, and we could do a whole podcast on that one, Kathy. But I was answering my own questions like, you know, I know what to do. It's getting me to stop being stuck on stupid and not making the same decision over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

[Kathy]

Right. Well, I think, I mean, I. Again, I'm not divorced, so. But I feel like divorce again is one of those ripple effect things. And I wondered, I mean, I had to go through a lot of therapy.

Because.

[Susan]

Well, you didn't get a divorce.

[Kathy]

I mean, no, but when my husband took his life and I found him, I needed a little bit of therapy there. But I feel like today, I don't know if it's just our age that some of the stressors that we have in our life, we look at the issues our children have, our grandchildren, and you know, I just wondered like. So you didn't do any therapy about your around your divorce? Do you think it's because divorce is so common now?

[Susan]

No, because I don't hold things in. I talk about things. I think for me personally, the best people that need therapy are the ones that hold everything in and they don't talk about their issues. That's why you need a therapist to get it out. For me, it.

[Kathy]

To help. What about to help make different decisions?

[Susan]

It didn't work. I still make the decisions.

[Kathy]

Okay, I'll use that.

[Susan]

Like, I have a question, Kathy. What is it like to break up a relationship or end a connection when no one does anything wrong? There's not like a big.

[Kathy]

Well, I would ask you.

You got divorced you stayed with him, and then one day you decided, we're done.

[Susan]

I knew it wasn't right.

[Kathy]

How did you know?

[Susan]

Relationship. I know what makes me tick. I know what makes me happy. I've always been a giver. And you hit a point where you realize I'm not that happy. What am I doing? Why am I here?

[Kathy]

Yeah, I mean, I. I can't. For me, I didn't have that. I mean, it sounds to me that you stayed married because you thought you're doing your kids a favor, which I think most people who, who divorce after the kids go. Most people say they wish they had divorced earlier. And so.

[Susan]

But I'm not the norm. Like our. Our house wasn't. I hear a lot of people, like ex husbands, are going to bring their new wife or girlfriend to their child's wedding, and I won't go because of this. I can't go without a man. Like, they're bitter. They don't speak highly of each other. I mean, I get it. Some divorces are because of really terrible reasons.

[Kathy]

Right.

[Susan]

But don't you graduate from that and forgive? Like, you had a life together, you had children together.

[Kathy]

I don't know.

[Susan]

You have to have some kind of respect.

[Kathy]

I don't know, because obviously I. I've not been in this situation. I think sometimes the hurt and the disappointment runs so deep.

[Susan]

Don't you forgive, though?

[Kathy]

I don't know, because I'm not.

[Susan]

I mean, imagine somebody doing you really.

[Kathy]

Wrong as, oh, I'm sorry, someone does me wrong. Susan, get your baseball bat out. Take care of me.

[Host 1]

Help me.

[Kathy]

I think, I mean, it's always.

[Susan]

I think the hurt will always be there. But listen, you have to be civil, especially if you have children. I don't understand divorced couples with families that can't get along and can't be in the same room at the same time.

[Kathy]

Yeah, I don't know. I, I again, the. My parents were divorced and it was the. Maybe. Maybe that's why I'm the way I am. Maybe that's why I work so hard to make my marriage work. My parents, for all you people have watched the movie War of the Roses.

[Susan]

Your parents, could they be in the same room together after the divorce?

[Kathy]

My father could have. My mother was absolutely a lunatic and could not. And by the way, when I say my mother, I mean my real mother, because, as you know, my stepmother is who I consider, who I consider my mother. And she was lovely. But I think that, I don't know, I think that everyone today faces tough decisions. People Change jobs more often now. I mean, our fathers. My father changed jobs, I think twice or maybe three times in the, in his entire career. A lot of people just now, people are just constantly moving.

[Susan]

Do you think it's because of getting laid off or career changes?

[Kathy]

I think it's all of the above. I think, you know, AI tech, that there's so many career opportunities now that did not exist when, when we were coming up. And I think that people have to be more fluid in their careers. Some careers are drying up because AI will take over those jobs that they had.

[Susan]

Well, how about it? You can't get a human on the phone no matter what company you're calling. It takes 12 minutes. I time them.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

And they don't listen.

[Kathy]

But imagine having a family. I grew up in the same house. Imagine having a family. Talk about a stressor, talk about a big decision. You know, I look at my kids. My son changed jobs recently. You know, he went through a divorce. He is now married to the most fabulous woman, but he had a career change. My, My daughter, her husband, they're. They're always talking about living here, living there. You know, she loves her job. Where should we live? How important is family? I think kids today, and when I say kids, I mean adults, young adults face pressures that. Maybe that's why I started this podcast saying our decisions aren't as difficult. I think think our children face a much more uncertain future because so many things are changing, because careers are.

[Susan]

But you gotta understand that they're growing up with these changes too. Much more than we did. Like, and, and they will see big changes. Big like we thought were big. However, for them, it just kind of rolls.

[Kathy]

Well, I don't know. I don't know about that. I think, I think it's trying. It's for. I can only speak about the young people I know, and I talk to them a lot about my daughter's friends. They're. They're trying to figure out next steps given where the jobs are, the. Where the job markets are, you know, who's laying off, where is the next place to get into. You know, for a while it was, it was tech, it was CyberSecurity. Now it's AI. It's constantly evolving.

[Susan]

Depends on what's on.

[Kathy]

And I think that is. What would you say, you know, you have older. Well, actually I have one older grandchild than you. What do you say to your teenage grandchildren if they ask you about you did not go to college? I did. What would you say to your grandchildren?

[Susan]

I went to a Trade school, though, so.

[Kathy]

No, no, no. I'm saying, what would you say to them about.

[Susan]

I always talk about college and what is it you might want to do? And the first thing out of Julian's mouth was, man, I can't wait. I'm going to. I'm leaving. I'm going to go to. I go. Really? You think it's a party?

[Kathy]

Well, a lot of the grades you.

[Susan]

Have right now, son, you might not get in.

[Kathy]

So let me tell you. You know, I was an educational consultant. I had my own business for 35 years. I spent a lot of time talking to teenagers about career paths.

[Susan]

I just try to figure out what it is that they like. Well, I. I would highly recommend doing something you enjoy that you're interested in.

[Kathy]

Right. But here's the deal. The ideal situation is to find a job that you love. Because then going to work isn't going to work. It's a joy. But not everyone has that luxury. I think college courses are going to look different. I think that the way you get jobs are going to look different. Just the way people find partners today, you know, they don't meet them at bars as much. It's online. I think career paths. What I always say to kids is try to find something you love.

But I also think, thankfully I'm retired, but still, some people call me and say, you know, my kids, they just don't know what they're doing. They're not sure what to major in. They're not sure to go to college.

[Susan]

Do you think that's a lot of pressure? When they're undecided, they don't know what they want to do.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Host 1]

Question Are you one of those people that starts your holiday shopping in like July?

[Susan]

July?

[Host 2]

I mean, no, never. Like I, I like to shop. Actually I like to shop on Christmas Eve because I find it to be a little more festive.

[Host 1]

But you like start decorating right after Halloween?

[Host 2]

No, after Thanksgiving. Okay, that's different. That's different. Halloween? No, not Halloween.

[Host 1]

You know, I consider myself to be a pretty good gift giver. I've got my list and I've checked.

[Host 2]

It twice, probably three times. She takes the holidays very seriously.

[Host 1]

I can't help it. You know, I love finding the perfect gifts for everyone. And Walmart has all the top brands. Nespresso, Sonos, Nintendo.

[Host 2]

Nintendo at Walmart? Who knew?

[Host 1]

I know. And more. All of your shopping in one place.

[Host 2]

How much more shopping? Oh boy.

[Host 1]

Just saying. Get all the brands everyone loves at Walmart. Head to Walmart.com or download the Walmart app to get all your gifts this season.

[Host 2]

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[Host 1]

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[Kathy]

You know what? I really think the big decisions that kids have to make are being foisted upon them way too early in life. I think that in today's world, we need to give grace to teenagers. The world is evolving at a much quicker pace than it did for us, and kids need a little bit more time as young adults to figure out their path.

[Susan]

So at what stage are you talking? Like, high school? You don't start talking in high school.

[Kathy]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Susan]

You talk what you might want to do so you can study for it, and you go to it.

[Kathy]

I don't think.

[Susan]

You know, college.

[Kathy]

I don't think so.

[Susan]

You just take your core subjects.

[Kathy]

I believe in varied experiences. I think. I'm not saying, you know, every summer, send them to Europe on a vacation. I'm not saying that. I think that kids. I think. Let me back up. I think adults have the best chance of making good decisions if, as children and teenagers, they're given the opportunity to think problems through, assess situations, and try to make a good decision for them.

[Susan]

Some teenagers can't think that problem.

[Kathy]

That's where it's our job to help them. That's where it's our job to help them. And you know, what if they share it with you? Well, that's true. There's very few big decisions in life that are not irreversible. That is my belief. And so I think fear stops a lot of people from making big decisions. Whether, I mean, we started out with cosmetic surgery and then moved on to divorce job changes. I think that it's okay to say, I made a mistake. I learned from it. I'm gonna pivot from here, and I'm gonna do something different. And I think the sooner kids realize kids, young adults realize, it's okay. We're not looking for perfection here. And I think that's why there's so much stress among young people today. They feel like you just said you. Let's talk in high school, Figure out your path. Trade school. No, no, no.

[Susan]

What is experience? I can prove you're right, because so many people that would assist me in cosmetology, okay, in the salon, you couldn't get your own chair until you worked under somebody for two years. And I would watch them and listen to them and teach them. And you know, how many pick the wrong thing after their parents paid? And it's not cheap to do that either. But they go, I don't want to do this.

[Kathy]

Right.

[Susan]

But you know, what made you want to in the first place, though, try to get out of them. And she's a dental hygienist or assistant now or something. And other people come to us from doing corporate world jobs and say, oh, my gosh, I cannot take the corporate world. I am too free, if you will, freelance kind of person. In my world, that's how we were. So that world fit better and you're more successful because you get to be who you are.

[Kathy]

Right?

[Susan]

And that's a good point, Kathy.

[Kathy]

Yeah, well. And I do think, you know, as parents, that's something I hope to instill in my grandchildren. Again, big decisions now look different. I talk to my granddaughter all the time about reading and how, just for an example, how reading takes you into your imagination. You go to visit places you might never see, but reading opens up worlds to you. Can you tell? I was an educator. Reading opens up worlds to you that you might never see otherwise. I feel like if we as kids can. Sorry, if we as parents and grandparents can offer experiences and teach our kids that big decisions are not. Are not always made the first time around.

[Susan]

You're right. You're right. Sometimes it takes a couple times you see me put my finger on my nose cap because I didn't want to interrupt. I don't know about you guys out there listening, but has anyone ever told you, you know, when you're. You're speaking or somebody, you're having a conversation like Kathy and I are, and you don't want to interrupt and a thought comes in your head, how many of us just blurt it out and interrupt? But I always had a reason for that, because I would forget what I was going to say. Well, one, I guess it was about a year and a half, two years ago, maybe longer. Somebody said to me, susan, when you have that thought, put your finger on the tip of your nose. So I'm walking around with my finger on my nose nine times out of ten.

[Kathy]

All right, so what's your big thought now?

[Susan]

I'm gonna forget because I just explained it.

[Kathy]

And that is case in point where Kathy interrupted.

[Susan]

If one of your children.

Older children, married children, decided that they're thinking about ending their marriage and they came to you for advice.

[Kathy]

My son did. What's your question?

[Susan]

I don't think you were crazy about that first wife. That's a no brainer. But what kind of conversation and what helped? How did you help him make a decision? Not that you would be the deciding factor, but.

[Kathy]

Well.

You'Re right, actually. When Kyle got divorced, he came to me and said it was a fet accompli. He had decided to get divorced. And you're right.

[Susan]

And he was just telling you or was he asking your opinion?

[Kathy]

No, but we had talked about marriage. I've talked to my kids about marriage before they got married. I talked to my daughter a lot now about the mistakes I made in my. Now you're gonna make me cry. I talk about the mistakes I made in my marriage that I can't fix because he's gone. And I talk to her about again. You know, the biggest decision.

That I. When I'm talking to my kids, the biggest decision I say to them is think about. Is this really that important? So that's what I say to them. I try to guide them to think. Not I let me back up. I don't tell them what to do anymore. I try not to. I try to give them.

[Susan]

But in your head, do you feel a certain way? Like if you felt a certain way, would you let it be known?

[Kathy]

Like, I don't think, I don't. I. What I try to do is say, I'm making it up. I'll just use my daughter Caitlin, who has a fabulous husband and I love him and they're happily married. He's. He's better than a good guy. He's.

[Susan]

But even if we love somebody that might struggle with something.

[Kathy]

And so I would. I would tell my daughter to help her make that decision. Ultimately it's her decision. But I would try to hold up a mirror to her of what she's saying, what I'm hearing her say, what. What are the issues? In other words, I would try to get her to talk about it if that were the case.

[Susan]

There I go again. Sorry, I just put my finger on my nose. That was a very, very good point. Again, in a different world, when I just. What did you just say? Oh, my gosh.

[Kathy]

People try to talk to my daughter about asking her questions as opposed to telling her what to do.

[Susan]

And I remember going to my dad and crying, saying, dad, I'm not happy. I am not happy. And he would give me no advice one way or the other because, you know, he loved Vicki and my kids and me. And he said, susan.

Is the grass greener on the other side? Are you going through Something like to make me think, like you just said you held a mirror to her. And that's when I put my finger on my nose. Because my clients, if you were my guest, that would come to me and tell me what they want with their hair. Okay, Right. And I would repeat it back to them and they go, no, that's not what I mean. I said, well, that's what I heard. Right. So you're right on the money by making her listen to herself.

[Kathy]

Right. And I think in the end, we all have big decisions to make in life. We all do, always. And I think we all have to accept sometimes we make the right one, sometimes we make the wrong decision, and sometimes we don't know. We make a decision and we hope for the best and we take the path that we think will lead us to where we want to go. But you know what?

[Susan]

There's no way.

[Kathy]

Sometimes you have to pivot. Sometimes you make the wrong choice. Choice. And that's okay. The. The biggest thing is picking up the pieces, moving on, and making the next best choice. You can.

[Susan]

I tell you what I do make the wrong decision. Always wearing the cool ass shoes that hurt all night long. It was a bad choice.

[Kathy]

Wait. I love you. We're having this serious podcast about.

[Susan]

I had to lighten it up, man.

[Kathy]

Holiday times and suit. Susan's. Susan's talking about, should she part her hair on the left or the right?

[Susan]

Yeah. Did you notice I went the other way today?

It's about the shoes, Kathy. I mean, when life comes down to.

[Kathy]

Shoes, I mean, shoes, hair, and makeup, Is there really any other conversation? And facelifts and nip tuck. Wait.

[Susan]

I always wanted to get a tummy tuck and he won't give me one.

[Kathy]

Yeah, well, he will not do it. You don't have skin.

[Susan]

I said, but it's big. He goes, stop eating.

[Kathy]

And that is the big decision. Susan, stop eating. Look at. This has been too much fun. But that's gonna do it for this episode of Bachelor's Happy hours Golden hour.

[Susan]

And please let us know what you think about this talk today. I'm sure people have their opinions and. And decisions that they're making. And you know what? Thank you so much all for joining us again. And make sure to follow us on Bachelor Happy Hour as we have new episodes coming out every week and you don't want to miss them.

[Kathy]

That's right. And the big decision we want you to make this week is to submit your questions to us. All you got to do is go to bachelor nation.com golden hour or hit us up on social at Bachelor Happy Hour?

[Susan]

Absolutely.

[Host 1]

Listen.

I consider myself to be a pretty good gift giver. I've got my list.

[Host 2]

Checked it twice, probably three times. She takes the holidays very seriously.

[Host 1]

I can't help it, you know. I love finding the perfect gifts. And Walmart has all the top brands. Nespresso, Sonos, Nintendo, Nintendo at Walmart?

[Host 2]

Who knew?

[Host 1]

I know. And more.

[Host 2]

Get all the brands everyone loves at Walmart. Head to Walmart.com or download the Walmart app to get all your gifts.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Host 2]

I can't face one more sunset without.

[Susan]

You by my side.

[Host 2]

Come with me and I vow your.

[Susan]

Desires will be my North Star forevermore.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Host 2]

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[Kathy]

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