Mel’s Hot and Cold Fantasy Suites | Happy Hour

Summary

Bachelor Happy Hour — Episode Summary

Episode: Mel’s Hot and Cold Fantasy Suites
Air Date: November 6, 2025
Hosts: Joe Amabile & Serena Pitt
Podcast: Bachelor Happy Hour by iHeartPodcasts & Warner Bros

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Overview

This episode is a lively, behind-the-scenes recap of the Fantasy Suites episode of "The Bachelor," focusing on Mel’s relationships with the final women, Peg and Cindy. Hosts Joe and Serena dissect the tropical Antigua dates, the contestants’ emotional journeys, Mel’s struggles with vulnerability, and the nuances in each finalist’s approach to securing Mel’s affection. The discussion is candid, humorous, and full of Bachelor Nation insight, setting the stage for the upcoming finale.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Thoughts on Fantasy Suites & Antigua

• Serena highlights the change in setting:
  "They're in Antigua this week, which looks beautiful...when they go to these tropical places, everyone's like a little more relaxed, a little more romantic. So it's a good setting for fantasy suites." (03:03)
• Both agree the show should open with more footage of the women in Antigua, capturing their feelings and excitement, rather than recapping the season or showing b-roll with host Jesse.
  • Joe: “Let’s, let’s actually start it off with the women in Antigua and see what they're doing... I don't need the recap." (03:22-03:52)

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Peg and Mel’s Dune Buggy Date

Date Summary:
Peg and Mel go dune buggy riding—a classic Bachelor adventure activity—followed by a more intimate dinner.

• Host Banter:
  • Serena jokes about the overused nature of dune buggy dates and their lack of meaningful impact:
    "In all the seasons, there's been 1 million dune buggy dates, and I don't think anything's ever really, like, gone down on a dune buggy." (05:40)
  • Joe prefers the substance of the night portion:
    "I have more interest in the dinner night portion and just like that conversation opposed to, like, dune buggy." (05:25)

Emotional Dynamic:

• Serena observes Peg’s concern about Mel’s emotional availability:
  "She’s worried that Mel might be emotionally unavailable because he deflects a lot when she asks him more personal, in depth questions... I wonder if that's something that they as a group have talked about." (06:36)
• Joe suggests such realizations usually come later in the show:
  "I think it happens more down the road with like the women that have spent more time with them..." (07:25)

Night/Dinner Portion:

• Serena notes Mel gives Peg “such undivided attention,” being more open with her than with others up to this point, possibly thanks to advice from Jesse.
  • "I do feel like he was the most vocal about his feelings that I've seen him this whole season with Peg." (07:42-08:23)
• Joe’s analysis: Mel would likely be much more emotionally expressive off-camera.
  • "I think Mel is the type of guy where if, if him and Peg at this point in the show were off camera and they were having a bottle of wine... he's probably throwing out I love you." (08:23)

Fantasy Suite Morning:

• The hosts react to the change in Mel’s demeanor:
  • Serena: "Oh my God. I feel like such a tone switch. I was like, whoa, you guys definitely got a little freaky last night... Mel was so giddy. He was so relaxed. He's like in his jeans, laying on the bed shirtless..." (09:12)
  • Joe: "We saw a different side of Mel. That was the first time he was giggling." (09:21)
• Both hosts agree this was the most relaxed and affectionate either Peg or Mel have seemed, rating the Fantasy Suite date a “10 out of 10” and “A plus, A plus.” (11:16-11:39)

Memorable Moment:

• Joe reflects on Mel’s earlier conversation with Peg’s daughter as a pivotal moment:
  • “After Mel's conversation with Peg's daughter, and him choosing Peg was a massive, like, was the sign of, like, I'm really in the back. Because...her daughter...was kind of like, I don't know if I trust you. I don't know if I like what you're saying.” (10:24-10:53)

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Cindy and Mel’s Stingray Date

Date Summary:
Cindy and Mel swim with stingrays, with Mel clearly outside his comfort zone. The dinner portion is marked by heavier, unresolved conversations.

• Serena on Stingray date:
  "I did swimming at the Stingrays one time... It took me like 15, 20 minutes to get in the water... one big wave could be a game changer for me..." (17:10)
• Joe comically refuses all ocean animal encounters:
  "Zero interaction with them. Yeah, let them do their thing... If 10 of those stingrays get together and they're like, attack... There's no way...I'm gonna get a thousand stingrays in me...I'll watch it on the YouTube." (17:06, 19:03)

Relationship Dynamics:

• Serena commends Cindy’s patience and efforts to make Mel comfortable, noting it’s positive to gently push someone out of their comfort zone but not force them.
  • "I commend Mal for giving it a try, and I commend Cindy for...being patient and kind of trying to ease his nerves and make him as comfortable as possible." (19:35-20:22)

Dinner/Evening:

• The tone at dinner grows serious and tense, with hosts citing a "cliffhanger":
  • Serena: “It seemed like it wasn’t a bad dinner, but it was definitely... more serious. The tone of the evening was definitely more serious. We end up on a cliffhanger.” (20:48)
• Joe critiques Cindy’s strategy of pressing Mel with hard questions on camera:
  • "Cindy’s approach to dinner, in my opinion, is a mistake... If she really wanted to be with Mel, I just think, why not wait till the cameras are off in the fantasy suites where you could really push them and actually get a real answer." (21:05)
• Serena agrees it's best to have deeper conversations off-camera, but supports Cindy's right to push for clarity:
  • "I'm all for her asking the hard questions... but I think now is the time to wait until the cameras are gone..." (21:38-22:50)
• Joe feels Mel’s responses to Cindy are tepid, indicating she’s not his top choice:
  • "His response to... was very much like, you're second. You're, you're in second place." (22:50-23:02)

Emotional Disconnect:

• Serena and Joe both identify a mismatch:
  • Serena: "I think they both feel the same, which is that they’re on two separate pages... Cindy is way ahead of him emotionally..." (23:35-24:27)
  • Joe: "If you're about to take, like, the next step in a relationship and your partners, well, you don't really have any questions for me. And then, like, there’s no question... You're kind of like, okay..." (24:27-24:39)

Memorable Quote

• Joe on saving deeper questions for Fantasy Suites:
  "The leads specifically, and a lot of times the contestants go into that date being like, well, I'm going to save the good stuff for when we're in the fantasy suites, because this is the date we've all been waiting for where we can really get into it and be 100% honest..." (24:53)

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Reflections on Mel’s Past & The Nature of Marriage

• Serena highlights the debate from Cindy and Mel’s conversation about Mel’s prior marriage:
  • "Mel took a really long time to get married. When he was married the first time... you spent a lot of time thinking about it because you wanted to be a hundred percent sure and sure you were, but you still ended up divorced. So, like, why do you need that this time around?" (25:55)
• Joe and Serena pivot into a deeper discussion on what constitutes a successful marriage:
  • Joe: "Is a marriage categorized as unsuccessful if it ends in a divorce, no matter how long the marriage is?" (31:38)
  • Serena: "My personal answer is that it's nuanced and there's not like a yes or no. But I think most people would say unsuccessful." (32:43)
• They joke about how long a marriage must last to be considered successful, settling—humorously—on "minimum 10 years" if it ends in divorce. (33:22-33:37)
• Joe proposes marriage may become obsolete in the future due to changing social incentives. (34:02–34:21)

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Where Do Things Stand? & Predictions

• Joe sums up Mel and Cindy’s conversation as “very bleak,” stating:
  "I would be so shocked, so shocked if he picks Cindy." (35:33-35:44)
• Serena questions whether Mel’s mind was made up by this point or if he’s been “quite torn in his decision making.”
• Joe insists Peg’s been the clear frontrunner “for a long time,” with Cindy as "number two for a long time." (36:14–36:29)

Contestant Picks and Editing Cues:

• Joe and Serena reveal their initial cast predictions:
  • Both accurately chose Peg (Joe) and Cindy (Serena) as final two after episode one.
  • "I'm impressed that each of us picked the final two." (37:24-37:40)
• They explain that subtle editing cues often preview who will make it to the end of the season. (38:15-38:33)

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Finale Tease

• Serena previews the finale:
  • "It's the finale...Looks like Jesse and Mel have a conversation. Peg and Mel have a conversation. If things go well, someone, if not both of them, are going to be meeting his family. So that'll be exciting to see his sons come into play." (39:12)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Mel’s Emotional Availability:
  "He is both eyes on her locked in and what she's saying, asking follow up questions. It's more just when like the tables turn on to him. I feel like he kind of freezes up." – Serena (07:42)
• On Mel and Peg’s Chemistry:
  "This is the most relaxed and soft I've seen either Peg or Mel. Like, they both seem really happy." – Serena (09:57)
• On Mel’s Relationship with Cindy:
  "I think Cindy’s like, let's get to that point. And if you need time and information to get to that point, like ask me some questions. Like, let me help you." – Serena (24:27)
• On the Inevitability of Peg as Mel’s Choice:
  "I think it’s been Peg for a long time... Cindy has been his number two for a long time." – Joe (36:14)
• On the Nature of a Successful Marriage:
  "I think in order for it to be labeled a success... by these people that are stamping the binder, it has to be, I think. I think minimum 10 years." – Joe (33:22)

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Timestamps for Key Sections

• Antigua Setting & Show Structure Critique — 03:00–04:34
• Peg’s Dune Buggy Date & Night Portion — 04:36–11:40
• Cindy’s Stingray Date & Tense Dinner — 16:10–25:07
• Mel’s Marriage History & Success/Failure Debate — 25:58–34:53
• Predictions & Editing Analysis — 36:14–38:33
• Finale Tease — 39:12–39:22

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Episode Tone & Final Notes

The conversation is conversational and lightly teasing, packed with personal anecdotes and Bachelor insider savvy. Joe’s dry, sometimes cynical humor plays off Serena’s analytical yet optimistic takes. Together, they cover both the high-drama romance and the practical realities behind reality TV love.

Perfect for:

• Skip-the-drama fans who want a quick but thorough understanding of the Fantasy Suites episode.
• Listeners interested in franchise strategy and narrative clues.
• Fans looking for relatable, witty relationship commentary from two “Bachelor in Paradise” pros.

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Stay tuned for the finale and a special guest interview with Joan later this week!

Transcript

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[Joe]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Bach yout Happy Hour. I'm Joe.

[Serena]

And I'm Serena.

[Joe]

And we are here with another recap. We're gonna recap fantasy suites. Let's do it.

[Serena]

Yeah, they're in Antigua this week, which looks beautiful. I mean, we haven't traveled all season, so it's kind of nice to shake it up and get a new location, a new vibe in. I also just feel like when they go to these tropical places, everyone's like a little more relaxed, a little more romantic. So it's a good setting for fantasy suites.

[Joe]

Yeah, I kind of wish we would start the episode instead of starting the episode off with Mel Jesse, B Roll. Like, let's, let's actually start it off with the women in Antigua and see what they're doing. Let's go like, have a little walk. Let's like take a walk around the block with them, see the sights a little bit, have them talk about how they're feeling.

[Serena]

Yeah, I like that idea.

[Joe]

And then like cup, you know, because I'm just like, I don't need to watch 10 minutes of what the fuck went down this whole season.

[Serena]

Like, like the long recap.

[Joe]

Yeah, I don't need the recap. I don't need the Jesse Mel talk quite yet. Like, I want to see these women. I want to see their excitement. I want to know how they feel.

[Serena]

I like that suggestion. I feel like even just like Jesse on the beach with Peg being like, so walk us through your journey. Like, let's do a little 10 minute chat, you know, how are you feeling? What are you looking for this week? And I know we get a little bit of that in their interviews, but I feel like going into depth more about that is more meaningful to me at this point than going back and seeing kind of like a montage of their journey. Like, this season's not that long. I know what happened week one.

[Joe]

And send the, send Peg and Cindy out on a walk together. Let them talk.

[Serena]

Oh, juicy. I love that.

[Joe]

Yeah, like, let's, let's, let's talk it out. How are you guys feeling right now?

[Serena]

Yeah, fair. I'm, I'm into that suggestion.

[Joe]

Thank you.

[Serena]

We start off with Peg. She's the first date of the episode and they do a dune buggy date. And, um. What did you think? I thought it was fun. I feel like, you know, dune buggy dates, we see Them every season. Peg is definitely, like an adventurous risk taker. I mean, she was on the bomb squad. Like, I feel like she's got to have a bit of adrenaline junkie in her.

[Joe]

Yeah, I, I tap out when I see a dune buggy, I see a helicopter, I see jumping in the ocean.

[Serena]

With stingrays about any sort of boat.

[Joe]

I, Nothing's gonna happen that I'm gonna be like, okay, this is mon. Or like, this is a big moment. Like it, I was gonna say, what was I?

[Serena]

Monumental.

[Joe]

Monumental. But I'm like, that's totally the wrong word. No, I, I have more interested, I have more interest in the dinner night portion. And just like that conversation opposed to, like, dune buggy.

[Serena]

Well, in all the seasons, there's been 1 million dune buggy dates, and I don't think anything's ever really, like, gone down on a dune buggy.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

You know, like, I, I, It's a visual cue to me that, like, they're gonna ride around. One person's gonna drive slow, one person's gonna drive fast. They're both gonna talk about that in their interviews, and then they'll sit down and have a chat and talk about the dune buggy.

[Joe]

Yeah, exactly. It's gonna be like in, you know, Pegs, I'm driving fast, Mel drives slow.

[Serena]

But what do you think that that revealed about maybe their personalities, their relationship, their compatibility? Nothing really.

[Joe]

Yeah, I don't, I don't think that's. It would be different if Peg was like, doing 360s and flying around and on top and you were like, whoa, she's an adrenaline junkie. Like this, she is like, exports. Like, this is what I love. But she's driving a little fast on a dune buggy. Okay. It's not that they're, they're not that much different.

[Serena]

Yeah, that's fair. Like, it's not going to be a deal breaker that she likes to drive fast and he likes to drive slow. So Peg says she's worried that Mal might be emotionally unavailable because he deflects a lot when she asks him more personal, in depth questions, which I think is something we've really seen from him with all the women all season. I wonder if that's something that they as a group have talked about. Do you know what I mean? Like, I wonder if the women have earlier on, probably not later into the journey, been like, he kind of deflects a lot, eh? Like, I'm trying to get stuff out of him and he's not really saying a lot or I wonder if they're usually very caught up in the beginning of being like, I want him to get to know me. That it is just something that they're now realizing. Like, huh, Like I'm not, I don't really know him.

[Joe]

Yeah, I think it's, I think it happens more down the road with like the women that have spent more time with them and then they could start like recapping the time they spent and like, okay, this, he's doing this and yada, yada, yada.

[Serena]

Yeah. So the dinner portion happens. And I will say like Mel does give her like such undivided attention. Like he is both eyes on her locked in and what she's saying, asking follow up questions. It's more just when like the tables turn on to him. I feel like he kind of freezes up. But I do feel like he was the most vocal about his feelings that I've seen him this whole season with Peg. Like, I think his conversation with Jesse was important where Jesse was like, you don't have to say I love you, but you can still say like I love this about you and this is how you make me feel. I think it's important that he does and I was glad that he did.

[Joe]

I think Mel is the type of guy where if, if him and Peg at this point in the show were off camera and they were having a bottle of wine and they were relaxing, I think he's gonna talk a lot about his feelings, his emotions. He's probably throwing out I love you. Like, I just think Mel is very aware of the situation he is in and he's not going to let them.

[Serena]

What?

[Joe]

You okay? Your eyes are really bugging.

[Serena]

I just yawned, but I tried to hold it in.

[Joe]

I was like, jesus, you should not swallow coffee.

[Serena]

Sorry.

[Joe]

So, yeah, that's kind of, that's kind of what I think.

[Serena]

The morning after. Oh my God. I feel like such a tone switch. I was like, whoa, you guys definitely got a little freaky last night.

[Joe]

We saw a different side of Mel. That was the first time he was giggling.

[Serena]

Oh my gosh, he was blushing. I was like, this is so cute. What happened last night? I feel like Mel was so giddy. He was so relaxed. He's like in his jeans, laying on the bed shirtless. Like, even though. But I feel like he did say during the dune buggy date, like he was talking about Peg and he was like, there was definitely like a sexual attraction.

[Joe]

Yeah, that he was like, he's like really expressed. Yeah, he was like, you know, like her sweaty and her hair all over the place.

[Serena]

No, but it was cute.

[Joe]

He's like, that she's my type.

[Serena]

Yeah. He was like, I'm into her. I'm sexually attracted to her. Like, she looks beautiful. She looks great. Her curly hair. Like, he's definitely attracted to her. And I was like, okay, that's important. And I think that's great. I mean, she's beautiful for sure. But I, I'm always just looking for more out of Mel. So just hearing that, I was like, okay, you really like her. And then just seeing how they were in the morning, I was like, this is the most relaxed and soft I've seen either Peg or Mal. Like, they both seem really happy.

[Joe]

I thought it was going to be Debbie.

[Serena]

Yeah.

[Joe]

But I really. After Mel's conversation with Peg's daughter, and him choosing Peg was a massive, like, was the sign of, like, I'm really in the back. Because she was like her daughter, which, like, good for her was kind of like, I don't know if I trust you. I don't know if I like what you're saying.

[Serena]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I'm kind of like, this is, I, I, I'm calling. And he didn't like. And he was.

[Serena]

Well, if there was a time to send Peg home, if it wasn't gonna be her, that would have been the way.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah.

[Serena]

He would have sent her home. He would have been like, this daughter is catching wind that I maybe not that into her mom. Time to go, Peg.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

So the fact that he kept her that week is just a show of dedication to her, in my opinion.

[Joe]

I agree. That's what I think.

[Serena]

But yeah, it was cute seeing them in the morning. Yeah. Just like, I feel like it was, it was all good. Like 10 out of 10 fantasy suite date. Nothing really seemed to go wrong. They had, like, in depth conversations at night. I think they had a great fantasy suite, whatever that means. And the morning, everything's good. Like, no complaints.

[Joe]

A plus, A plus.

[Serena]

A plus. Plus.

[Joe]

Makes sense why that was shown first.

[Serena]

Makes sense why that was shown first. Definitely not as juicy as Cindy's. Even though I would say Cindy and Peg both went into their dates feeling kind of the same. Like, they both expressed they wanted to get more out of Mal in terms of how he's feeling and where he's at.

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[Serena]

So Cindy has the Stingray date. I've done this before. The Stingrays. Have you done it?

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[Joe]

And never will. You never will have no desire unless I, unless somebody's going to pay me, I'll do it. I will do it for money. Just, just throw that out there in case any, any, any brand dealers are.

[Serena]

Are affiliated with Stingers out there.

[Joe]

You know, I will do it for money, but I will never do it for fun.

[Serena]

What about it does not appeal to you?

[Joe]

I just, I just wouldn't want it. Like I don't. Nothing appeals to me. Like I don't care to go underwater with goggles and look at fish.

[Serena]

Yeah, you're not really a water adventure guy.

[Joe]

No, no. I mean I enjoyed like surf lessons like that. I enjoy like, like somewhat of like a water sport sport workout.

[Serena]

But like you don't want to interact with the creatures of the sea.

[Joe]

Zero interaction with them. Yeah, let them do the, let them do their thing.

[Serena]

I did swimming at the Stingrays one time. I don't remember how old I Was not. Not that old. I want to say I was maybe like 10 or 11. It. I am someone that's very comfortable in the water. And I remember it took me like 15, 20 minutes to get in the water because they were like, you have to keep your feet planted on the ground because if you don't, they will potentially swim under you. And if you, like step on one of them, you're going to potentially anger one. And as a small child, I was like, well, one big wave could be a game changer for me and my feet on the ground versus off the ground.

[Joe]

Well, I thought they. How.

[Serena]

How.

[Joe]

I thought that this was like in the middle of the ocean where it's like 30ft deep. How deep is this?

[Serena]

No, you could stand.

[Joe]

Oh, you. I didn't know they could.

[Serena]

They were standing.

[Joe]

Oh, I wasn't. I was zoned out.

[Serena]

Okay.

[Joe]

I. Jesus. I told you, you know, those dates, I kind of zone out.

[Serena]

Well, you can see Cindy was like, super into it, but I can. I sympathize with Mel's hesitation, honestly, because those things are big and they're kind of scary and they look like dinosaurs. Yeah.

[Joe]

Like, I don't need to be in the middle of the ocean. I don't need to be on a 40 foot cliff. Like, I don't need. I don't like heights. I don't need to be in the middle of the ocean. I don't need to be like, you know, like a safari, you know, I don't. No, thank you.

[Serena]

You're a city boy.

[Joe]

Well, it's. Because animals, whether or not we want to admit this or not, are. Are unpredictable.

[Serena]

Yes.

[Joe]

You know, like, I love dogs, but, like, that's it. Like, I don't need to, like, be like, oh, let's go look at the lions. Like, no, thank you. Because what's gonna happen with one of.

[Ad Voice 4]

If.

[Joe]

If all of a sudden, you know, 10 of them roll up on you, you're done, you're dead.

[Serena]

Yeah, probably.

[Joe]

And it's not gonna be like a nice death. Like, it's a. It's awful.

[Serena]

But these people do this for a living. I mean, you heard the guy say he's been doing it for 25 years. No one ever been stung before.

[Joe]

Sure. But they also. They also. Like you. You're gonna tell me, like, if. If 10 of those stingrays get together and they're like, attack. Those guys have been doing it forever, are gonna know how to handle that situation. There's no way they're gonna freak out too. They're gonna they're gonna run, they're gonna swim away, and I'm gonna get a thousand stingrays in me for what. So I could have had. So I had a nice 10 minutes underwater looking at them. I'll watch it on the. The YouTube.

[Serena]

You really just said, like your dad when you said that, that you'd watch on YouTube.

[Joe]

I will.

[Serena]

Okay, so no stingrays for Joe and Mal. Cindy and I will take charge of the stingrays. Commend. I commend Mal for giving it a try, and I commend Cindy for, you know, being patient and kind of trying to ease his nerves and make him as comfortable as possible. I think that's all you can do in that situation with your partner, frankly, is do your best to make them feel comfortable, supported. I think it's good to push your partner a little bit outside their comfort zone. But I also don't think Mel, again, needs to, like, live for swimming at the stingrays for their relationship to work. So, like, if he doesn't want to do it, like, no shade to him. Like, I'm all for people saying, like, I know I'm on a show, and I know this is the date activity that I've been told I have to do today, but I don't want to do it, so I'm not going to.

[Joe]

Yeah, I mean, like, if that was you and I, I would have looked at you before we went in the water and been like, just so you know, I don't want to do this. And since we are doing this, it's every man for themselves in there. We're not going to be having conversation like, I'm in there. I'm surviving. I am surviving on my own. I'm in there. I'm paying attention to what's happening underneath me. I going to get back up. We're going to get on this boat.

[Ad Voice 3]

It's.

[Joe]

I'm going to be nauseous because we're in the middle of the ocean, and hopefully we have a good dinner.

[Serena]

Yeah. Fingers crossed. We have a good 10. Well, they didn't have a great dinner, unfortunately. It seemed like it wasn't a bad dinner, but it was definitely. It was more serious. The tone of the evening was definitely more serious. We end up on a cliffhanger.

[Joe]

Mistake.

[Serena]

What do you mean, mistake?

[Joe]

I think it's a mistake. I think it's.

[Ad Voice 5]

I think.

[Serena]

What do you think is a mistake, Sid?

[Joe]

Cindy. Sydney's approach. Cindy's approach to dinner, in my opinion, is a mistake. I understand what she's doing. And I get it. But if she really wanted to be with Mel, I just think, why not wait till the cameras are off in the fantasy suites where you could really push them and actually get a real answer.

[Serena]

Yeah. And I mean, maybe they'll head to fantasy suites and have a more in depth conversation. I have no problem with Cindy pushing Mel. I, I don't think that's a problem. I think at this point, she has every right to do so. And I think that if that's truly her person, like, there's nothing she can say in terms, I mean, obviously she's going about this in, like, the most considerate, respectful manner in terms of asking important questions. So, like, there is nothing she can say, in my opinion, in this fashion that is going to, like, change his mind about her, push him away from her, if that is truly the person she's meant to be with. So I'm all for her asking the hard questions, but I do agree with you. Like, you're this close to fantasy suites. Like, you're right there. If you're gonna get the most open and honest answers from him, it's going to be in the fantasy suites. So I think it's okay to, like, maybe tee up that conversation, but I think now is the time to wait until the cameras are gone, and then if the conversation doesn't go the way you want, then there you go. But, but you're going to miss a large portion of the information you could have gotten by doing this with him on camera, based on how he has responded on camera in the past.

[Joe]

Yeah. And I think his, his response to.

[Ad Voice 5]

Me.

[Joe]

Was very much like, you're, you're second. You're, you're in second place.

[Serena]

You think?

[Joe]

Yeah, that's, that's how it reads to me.

[Serena]

I don't know if I got that.

[Joe]

Yeah, I do. I, I, I'm, I'm picking that up because I just feel like, I feel like if Peg came at him the same way, there would have been a little more. There would have been a little more, like, don't freak out.

[Serena]

Like, it's gonna be okay. Reassurance.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

And to me, I feel like he's kind of like, in a way, like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not choosing you.

[Serena]

Well, I think they both feel the same, which is that they're on two separate pages. Like, I think that Mal feels like Cindy is way ahead of him emotionally and way more comfortable taking a serious step forward in their relationship. And I think Cindy feels that too. I think she's like, I'm way ahead of you emotionally, and I'm way more comfortable taking a serious step. So they're, they're just in two different places. I don't feel that Peg and him are necessarily in two different places. As much as I think that Peg wants a little bit more out of him, I think she's looking for less than Cindy is right now. Cindy kind of calls him out and says, you don't have. She says, you don't really have any questions for me. So, like, what's holding you back? How do you feel about me? Like, I think Cindy's like, let's get to that point. And if you need to. You need time and information to get to that point, like, ask me some questions. Like, let me help you.

[Joe]

That's never good enough. Like, if you're about to take, like, the next step in a relationship and your partners, well, you don't really have any questions for me. And then, like, there's no question.

[Serena]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Followed up with that. You're kind of like, okay, or maybe he just thought you don't care, but.

[Serena]

Maybe he did have questions for. And he's just like, I don't want to ask these right now. Like, let's wrap this up so I can read the fantasy suite card so we can go talk off camera.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

You know, like, I think the leads specifically, and a lot of times the contestants go into that date being like, well, I'm going to save the good stuff for when we're in the fantasy suites, because this is the date we've all been waiting for where we can really get into it and be 100% honest with each other.

[Joe]

They need a producer in there. Like, yo, yo, enough. Open up.

[Serena]

Oh, Timl Yeah, speak.

[Joe]

Tell it. Say exactly how you feel right now and then walk off and walk off camera because we are definitely not, like, yeah, like, I, I, I. I want him to, to, like, be brutally honest at this point.

[Serena]

I think he is being brutally honest if I'm being. Yeah, I think he is. I think he's basically saying, I'm not in love with you, and I don't know if I'm going to propose, and I'm don't know if I'm ready.

[Joe]

He keeps, he keeps going. Like, these things take time, right?

[Serena]

Yes. But you know, what was really interesting to me is. And I don't know if maybe this was said and we just missed it, but a big part of Cindy and Mel's conversation was the fact that Mel took a really long time to get married. When he was married the first time.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

And she was like, I know it took you a long time and I know you spent a lot of time thinking about it because you wanted to be a hundred percent sure and sure you were, but you still ended up divorced. So, like, why do you need that this time around? Like, there's always going to be that risk. Which, you know, I could see both sides of that argument.

[Joe]

But he also, and he also said, like, yeah, I ended up divorced, but. But we were still together for 25 years.

[Serena]

I want to know how long it took Mel to get married. Like, is this, are we talking two to three years? Are we talking like 10 to 15 years? And how old was he when he got married? Like, I, I want to know more about that. I also want to know why the heck he got divorced. Like, I need to know these things.

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[Serena]

I think it's different depending on who you ask. Like, if someone's together for 25 years and they had, you know, 20 out of those 25 years were good and there was a lot of love there and they raised two beautiful children together, like, that's a successful marriage to me.

[Joe]

Well, then why'd they get divorced?

[Serena]

Well, it doesn't always, you know, 25 years is a long time to be with someone. Maybe they were just like, I can't stand you anymore. This was enough. You know, we had our expiry date and it's now, so.

[Joe]

Yeah, but like, so, so we don't know. Like, there. There is no yes or no to my. To my question.

[Serena]

Is your question, like, is there an objective, clear answer to what a successful marriage looks like versus a non successful marriage?

[Joe]

If a marriage ends in divorce?

[Serena]

Yeah.

[Joe]

No matter the situation, is it. Was it successful or not successful? I think if we stamp it, if it's a big binder.

[Serena]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You know, Joe and Serena's marriage at the end of our lives, if we're divorced, is that stamped unsuccessful or successful?

[Serena]

I. My personal answer is that it's. It's nuanced and there's not like a yes or no. But I think most people would say unsuccessful. I think if you're just trying to, like, simplify it to a successful or unsuccessful. If the marriage ends, I think most people would say it gets stamped unsuccessful.

[Joe]

What if.

[Serena]

I think that's such a cynical way of looking at it. What if we.

[Joe]

What if we were married for one year and got divorced, but eight months were great, and then the last four.

[Serena]

Well, I. Why did the last four go so south?

[Joe]

I don't know. But is that success or unsuccessful?

[Serena]

That's probably unsuccess, you know, like, it's only a year. That's pretty quick. You know, it's because when that happens, you're, like, looking at it being like, well, maybe we shouldn't have gotten married in the first place.

[Joe]

Yeah, I think, I think you have to I think in order for it to be labeled a success by these people that are stamping the binder, it has to be, I think. I think, minimum 10 years.

[Serena]

Okay. Anything under 10 years is a failure of a marriage. 10 years is a long time, though.

[Joe]

If it ends in divorce. So that's what I'm saying. So, like, we were married for five years and we got divorced. Maybe our relationship, but like, our marriage, it's kind of unsuccessful, you know?

[Serena]

I guess. I guess. I mean, it's a dark question you're posing.

[Ad Voice 5]

Yeah.

[Joe]

But I guess, I mean, there's going to eventually be a time where I think marriage may become obsolete.

[Serena]

You think?

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Serena]

Well, less and less people are getting married and having children.

[Joe]

Yeah, I think we're trending that way already. I mean, I don't think it's. I don't think it's going to be in our time, but I do think. I do think eventually you. You probably won't see marriages.

[Serena]

I think that the incentive for people that aren't religious and believe in the construct of marriage as like, holy act. I don't know if that's the right phrasing, but you get what I'm saying. I think the motivation is taxes.

[Joe]

You don't save that much.

[Serena]

You don't think?

[Ad Voice 5]

No.

[Serena]

I guess then, like, custody of children. I don't know. Yeah, I'm sure marriage plays a role in that.

[Joe]

Well, I guess marriage plays a role in children. With children. Yeah. Going back.

[Serena]

Going back to the Bachelor.

[Joe]

Circling back.

[Serena]

Circling back. Okay. What do you think of Cindy and Mel's conversation and where do you think that this is heading?

[Joe]

I mean, the way it ends, their conversation, it was very bleak.

[Ad Voice 4]

I.

[Joe]

It really just seemed like they were both not happy with each other and not happy with the situation. And I feel like it's. Well, it's also harder because you're texting right now.

[Serena]

No, I'm not. I'm trying to find.

[Joe]

This is. This is becoming an unsuccessful marriage.

[Serena]

I'm trying to find. I'll tell you what I'm doing. As much as I am listening to. I'm trying to find what our predictions were.

[Joe]

This is what. This is what I will say. I. Right now, after watching that, I would be so shocked, so shocked if he picks Cindy.

[Serena]

Really?

[Joe]

Yeah. I just don't think it's gonna happen now unless. Unless we were left on a cliffhanger in. The whole conversation is about to shift.

[Serena]

Do you think that. Do you think that this conversation made up his mind potentially, or do you think that it's he's always kind of known it's potentially going to be Peg because I have felt him to be quite torn in his decision making. I've gone back and forth, like, I'm not sure if Mel knows what he's gonna do yet.

[Joe]

I think. I think it was. I think it's been pegged for a long time. Yeah, it's been pegged for a long time.

[Serena]

Okay.

[Joe]

And I think Cindy has been his number two for a long time. Long time.

[Serena]

Interesting.

[Ad Voice 4]

Okay.

[Joe]

That's what I think.

[Serena]

Well, I'm curious to see how this unfolds.

[Joe]

So we have our. Our predictions that we make at the beginning of the season. We make these predictions before the first episode airs.

[Ad Voice 4]

Right.

[Serena]

I think what we did was we each picked three from the cast photos and then we each picked one after the first episode. So off of the cast photos, Joe had picked Nicole. Great pick.

[Joe]

Thank you.

[Serena]

Eileen, who I think went home pretty quick. Pretty quick. Roxanne, who also went home pretty quick. And then your pick after night one was Peg.

[Joe]

Nice.

[Serena]

And then for me, off of cast photos, I had Debbie, Carol, Jerry. So all my girls did pretty well, actually. And my pick after night one was Cindy.

[Joe]

Wow.

[Serena]

Which is wild. We each, after night one, picked the final two.

[Joe]

Yeah, you really need that.

[Ad Voice 5]

Night one.

[Serena]

Well, yeah. Going off of the head shots in the bios, I mean, you're straight up just guessing night one gives you so much more to go off of. But, like, still, I'm impressed that each of us picked the final two.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm impressed, too. We've. We've. We've officially watched the. The show way too many times.

[Serena]

Truly. Honestly, like.

[Joe]

Like, if you want to know who's going to be at the end, just listen to our predictions.

[Serena]

Yeah, we're probably right.

[Joe]

I think you think you'll be able to. Because she's, you know, not part of the franchise. She's coming from a different show. Do you think we're going to be able to figure it out with Taylor, Frankie, Paul?

[Serena]

I think that'll be harder. I think it'll be harder. I think it'll be harder because we don't know, like, when they cast, we.

[Joe]

Have a lot more information on her. If you watch the Mormon Wives.

[Serena]

That's true. That's true. Actually, you know what it is, though? The prediction comes from us having watched an episode one so many times that something in the edit is cluing us that this person's going far. We just don't even know it.

[Joe]

Oh, I know it.

[Serena]

No, I'M saying, like, it's like, it's like second nature for us to pick up on some of the things I don't even realize I'm picking up on. You know what I mean? Like, obviously we pick, we read into something that they were to tell us.

[Joe]

Okay. I think that's basically, basically a recap. I mean, honestly, there's only two women, so, you know, there's not much more we could even talk about.

[Serena]

Yeah, I think the big episodes coming up, it's the finale. We're gonna see how this conversation with Cindy unfolds. Looks like Jesse and Mel have a conversation. Peg and Mel have a conversation. If things go well, someone, if not both of them are going to be meeting his family. So that'll be exciting to see his sons come into play. I'm excited to see him interact with his sons. That'll be good. And we'll see how this whole journey ends.

[Joe]

Yep. Thank you guys so much for tuning into Bachelor Happy Hour. Make sure you download and subscribe to the podcast.

[Serena]

We have new and exclusive recaps and interviews come your way. We also have Joan on the podcast to give us all of her thoughts later this week, so be sure to tune into that. Thanks Watching for listening. Bye.

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[Serena]

Yep.

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[Podcast Announcer]

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