Mel's Journey Is Down to the Wire! | Golden Hour

Summary

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Bachelor Happy Hour: Mel's Journey Is Down to the Wire! | Golden Hour

Air Date: November 10, 2025
Hosts: Susan and Kathy
Theme:
A detailed, opinionated, and lively recap of "The Golden Bachelor" Fantasy Suites episode, with Susan and Kathy analyzing Mel's emotional journey, the contrasting personalities of Peg and Cindy, and what’s really at stake as Mel’s search for love reaches its climax.

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Episode Overview

The week’s “Golden Hour” is dedicated to dissecting the Fantasy Suites episode of The Golden Bachelor. The hosts, Susan and Kathy, voice both praise and frustration with Mel, the lead bachelor, discussing his hesitancy to declare love and the distinctly different energies of Peg and Cindy, the final two contestants. They blend sharp humor, candid opinions, and deep dives into the emotional authenticity (or lack thereof) from all parties.

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Key Topics & Segment Timestamps

1. Opening Thoughts and Episode Setup

03:31–04:25

• Susan and Kathy immediately dive in, questioning the episode's opening and Mel’s emotional visibility.
• Both hosts note “the ball was just lobbied” with a football scene and wish for a more emotionally charged opening.
• Kathy spotlights a critical moment between Jesse (the host) and Mel, where Jesse reminds Mel:

  "Buddy, now's the time. You're one week away from engagements. Now's the time to let these women know what you think." (Kathy, 04:35)

Memorable Quote:

• "For the first time, Mel, actually...you may not like it as the audience because we want it to be about love...But he's really clear. He says, I don't use the word love loosely...I won't tell someone I love them again just to say it." (Kathy, 05:10)

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2. Mel’s Emotional Reserve & Communication

05:10–07:27

• Mel refuses to say “I love you” without authentic feelings, referencing his deceased or ex-wife and indicating deep trauma.
• Susan and Kathy commend Mel for honesty but empathize with the women, especially as Mel’s emotional standoff causes both tension and insecurity.

Notable Moment:

• "He literally comes out and says, I can't do that. I am not in love. So I value that." (Kathy, 05:11)

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3. Contrasting the Final Two: Peg versus Cindy

07:27–08:41

• The hosts love how editing made the differences clear:
  • Peg: fun-loving, adventurous, emotionally guarded
  • Cindy: seeking depth, romance, validation
• Susan notes Cindy’s ongoing discomfort with sharing Mel’s attention, stating:

  "It wasn't a jealousy thing, but it was hard for her to watch him date other women..." (Susan, 06:27)

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4. Peg’s Date: Adventure and Fearlessness

08:41–15:07

• Peg's energy and "badass" attitude terrify and thrill Mel—he visibly clings on for dear life on their buggy ride.
• Kathy highlights the irony in Mel's critique of Peg for being guarded:

  "If she's guarded, Mel, you are guarded to the 100th exponent. Like, are you serious?" (Kathy, 13:08)

• The hosts joke about Mel’s emotionless responses ("It’s good") and speculate about his emotional availability.

Memorable Exchange:

• Susan: "How do you feel about us?” Mel: “One word. Good. It's like pulling teeth. Mel, I need to talk to you." (11:17)
• Kathy: "What do you think of ice cream? It’s good...What do you think of death and taxes? They're good." (11:24-11:32)

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5. The Fantasy Suite with Peg

15:17–17:04

• The hosts decode post-overnight cues, reading between lines like “we connected on a whole bunch of levels” as a hint of physical intimacy.
• Both question if Mel can genuinely check off any boxes Peg requires—retirement status, readiness for commitment.

Notable Insight:

• Susan: "Is that the definition of love is blind? The one you’re in?...You’re just blind to all the things on your list and you’re not checking any of them off?" (16:47)

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6. Is Mel Capable of Deep Love Again?

24:17–25:54

• Kathy contemplates if Mel’s comparison to his late or ex-wife is the reason he can’t fully engage emotionally with Peg or Cindy.
• Susan and Kathy agree the show's format sets expectations for instant love, which clashes with Mel's slower process.

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7. Cindy’s Date: The Calm after the Storm

26:42–31:51

• Cindy’s date offers a calmer, quieter vibe; both seem more relaxed apart from Mel’s fear of stingrays and horses.
• Susan calls Mel “a dead fish” in the romance department, and the hosts debate if Cindy truly wants to know Mel's intentions, or—more accurately—wants a declaration of love.
• Kathy firmly asserts:

  "Cindy wanted to know his intentions. He's made his intentions very clear…She wants to hear that he's falling in love with her and he ain't doing it. And I don't blame him." (29:43)

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8. Expectations versus Reality: The Structure of the Show

31:51–34:39

• Both hosts muse on whether Mel would consider dating both women post-show, and whether either Peg or Cindy would accept that.
• Good-humored sparring ensues:
  • Susan: "If you were one of them, would you accept he's going to date both of us after the show? Hell no." (32:18)
  • Kathy: "If I were that in love with him as Cindy says she is, I would...entertain the idea." (33:33)

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9. The Tense Dinner and Cliffhanger

39:33–41:41

• Susan and Kathy both felt Cindy may leave the show, describing her as "barking up an empty tree" (Susan, 39:37).
• Kathy confesses she expected Mel to send Cindy home due to his inability to reciprocate her feelings.

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10. Predictions: Peg or Cindy?

42:06–45:46

• The hosts try to predict Mel’s choice:
  • Susan leans Peg: "I think she brings life back into him...he's not the hopeless romantic." (44:08)
  • Kathy acknowledges Mel is more relaxed with Cindy, but in awe of Peg.
• Kathy hypothesizes Mel wishes he could create an ideal woman using aspects from both competitors.

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Notable Quotes

“If she's guarded, Mel, you are guarded to the 100th exponent. Like, are you serious?"
—Kathy (13:08)

"I think Peg just excites him and he gets a kick out of her."
—Susan (44:39)

“If I were that in love with him as Cindy says she is, I would...entertain it."
—Kathy (33:33)

“Is that the definition of love is blind? ...You’re just blind to all the things on your list and you’re not checking any of them off?"
—Susan (16:47)

"We're not getting the romance that we want...We got Peg, who's running a circus...and we have Cindy, the damsel in distress..."
—Kathy (25:08)

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Memorable & Lighthearted Moments

• The hosts riff nonstop about Mel’s emotional reticence, spinning his non-responses (“It’s good”) into running gags.
• Comparing Peg to themselves (Susan and Kathy), and imagining themselves in the final two, sparks playful debate.
• “Do you want to get breakfast? Are you hungry?” is mocked as Mel’s way of showing post-overnight affection (17:04).

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Final Notes & The Week Ahead

• The episode ends with palpable anticipation for the finale. Susan and Kathy admit deep uncertainty and expectation for a possibly unconventional ending, and delight in the cliffhanger.
• Strong engagement with listeners is encouraged, with Susan mentioning the community’s feedback as a podcast highlight.

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Quick Reference: Major Segments

| Segment/Topic | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------|----------------| | Opening & Initial Impressions | 03:31–04:25 | | Mel’s Emotional Reserve | 05:10–07:27 | | Peg vs. Cindy (Character Contrasts) | 07:27–08:41 | | Peg’s Fantasy Suite Date | 08:41–15:07 | | Analysis of Mel’s Commitment | 24:17–25:54 | | Cindy’s Date & Emotional Needs | 26:42–31:51 | | Show Expectations vs. Reality | 31:51–34:39 | | Cliffhanger & Predictions | 39:33–45:46 |

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Summary by:
Bachelor Happy Hour Golden Hour with Susan & Kathy – Dissecting love, emotion, and the fantasy that is Bachelor Nation, one guarded Bachelor at a time.

Transcript

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[Susan]

Welcome back everybody to Bachelor Happy hours Golden hour. Thanks so much for joining us again this week. We are always excited to be back, huh Kathy?

[Kathy]

Oh, we are so excited to be back and especially today because we're going to be talking about all about this past episode of the Golden Bachelor, the Fantasy suites episode. Susan I don't even know where to begin. So much to talk about. What do you think?

[Susan]

Can I just say from the start, they were throwing a football. They were just lobbying the ball. Like kind of boring. I think it could have been a better entry like maybe the girls walking together down the beach or him in thought down the beach because he doesn't show up us a lot of emotion. So maybe we could have seen him going through some something himself, thinking out loud, whatever.

[Kathy]

So my thought, first of all, the first little intro was, you know, Cindy and Mel and him saying where they're so will, there's a way. And I thought, okay, we're going to get into that.

[Susan]

We've said that quite a bit.

[Kathy]

Yep, he did. But I heard Jesse say to him, which thank you, Jesse. Jesse said, mel, you gotta, you gotta step it up. You gotta tell these women where you are, what you think. Which, which to me makes the rest of the episode so hard to deal with because Jesse had just said, buddy, now's the time. You're one week away from engagements. Now's the time to let these women know what you think. And that's where I want to get into and go ahead.

[Susan]

I'm sorry, Kathy.

[Kathy]

No, that's what I wanted to get into. You know, Mel with the date with, with Peg, which we're going to talk about and the date with Cindy, which we're going to talk about. But I just want to start out before we get into those specifics. I give Mel props and I know a lot of people are finding this season boring, finding Melbourne. But for the first time, Mel, actually we may not like it as the audience because we want it to be about love and we want Mel to fall in love. But you know what? He's really clear. He says, I don't use the word love loosely for him. He said, it's heavy and it's loaded. It has tons of meaning. I won't tell someone I love them again just to say it. And I thought, you know what? Good for you, Mel. While the premise of this show is to fall in love and hopefully have an engagement, he literally comes out and says, I can't do that. I am not in love. So I value that. I think these women don't like it, and I don't blame them. But let's talk a little bit about the date. You go ahead.

[Susan]

He shared about he doesn't use that word often and how long it took him to do it when he got married way back when. And you have to respect, he shares how great he feels about both of them. And I agree with you with Jesse saying, okay, buddy, like, it's got to be one of them or perhaps none of them. But either way, as the show goes on, as we all know, he doesn't use the word at all. We start with Cindy in her own head thinking, oh, my gosh, when she's not with him, is he with her? He's with Peg. That's Cindy's whole show about Cindy. She always thought that it wasn't not a jealousy thing, but it was hard for her to watch him date other women through the whole entire thing. Now here she is at the overnights, and there is one other woman. But of course, if he's not with you, he's with her.

[Kathy]

Right?

[Susan]

Right. And that has to be hard.

[Kathy]

Okay, so before we get into the dates themselves, you're absolutely right. I agree with you. It has to be hard. But the other thing I loved about this episode, and you know, if we're being honest, it's. You and I have had a tough time with this season, as have many people in Bachelor Nation. But the other thing, not only do I give Mel props for really coming out and saying where he is, I also think that Susan. Hello. I also think that Cindy and Peggy for the very first time. And maybe it's because it came down to just the two of them being left. We see very clearly the difference between these two women. We see definitively that Peg is a fun, loving girl. And she even comes out and says, I'm not ready to fall in love. I can't say those words. And Cindy is all about the romance, all about my prince Charming. I'm falling in love with him. And so I think I love the editing with these two because I really feel that as a viewer, we see the real differences between them. So you want. Let's start with the date with Peg. What do you think?

[Susan]

First of all, he crawled in on the buggy. Whatever. The thing is, they are so much fun. And maybe he was just being cautious, going to get her. But did you see his face when she took off? He was holding on for dear life. And he says he loves her energy, thinks she's a badass. He connects on an emotional level, he feels her spirit, all of those things. I love all that. But he was scared. He was.

[Kathy]

Yes.

[Susan]

This wasn't a great overnight fantasy weekend for him because both things. He didn't like the Stingrays. And he looked.

[Kathy]

Let me just say. Let me just say. The Stingray day, when we get to that, that's going down in Bachelor history. That one.

[Susan]

He looked like he a brick. I swear to God, when he. His eyes open, he grabbed the oh shit bar and said, oh, God. But then he was laughing and he was enjoying it. She was going crazy and he was enjoying it. But that's who she is. That's who she's been the entire show.

[Kathy]

I agree. The other thing I love that Mel said is she's captivating. And I feel like Peg says, you know, I have a tough exterior. It's a defense mechanism. And when I feel safe and I trust, I go in with both feet. I actually think I. Mel is probably the same way. That's why I think they're a good match. I think he and Cindy could be a good match too. But that's why I think he and Peg, I think they're in the same place. They don't cavalierly throw out the word love. They. They're both reserved, I think. But I do think Peg would be an easy choice for this reason, Mel. And maybe it's a little bit the way my marriage was. You know, I was the entertainer in my marriage. I was the one that brought the fun. And my husband was much calmer, more reserved, like Mel. And it's very easy for Mel to literally watch Peg captivate her room, you know, take, take, take control in that way. It doesn't take a lot of energy or on his part or. Or deliberate behavior. It doesn't. He just has to sit back and watch Peg be Peg. And.

[Susan]

And I think it actually helped Mel when Peggy shared that she cannot fix a relationship and she was hoping that Mel had a safe place for her in his heart. She does take it slow, same as him. But when she said, how do you feel about us. One word. Good. It's like pulling teeth. Mel, I need to talk to you.

[Kathy]

Hold on. Mel, what do you think of ice cream? It's good.

[Susan]

It's good.

[Kathy]

What do you think of death and taxes? They're good.

[Susan]

Which immediately Peg says, I'm wondering if he is emotionally available, even though they both want to take it slow. But is he? You know, that's a red flag. People that are not emotionally available.

[Kathy]

So, Susan, that's my question. You know, it always. In the. In these. In this show, it's always about what we see versus what really happens, right? And so you and I've always talked about, oh, maybe it's the edits. You know, maybe we just didn't see it happen. But this episode blew my mind because both Cindy and Peg say, you know, he's got to give us, Jesse, everyone, the commercial. You know, the. The. The commercial break. Everyone's saying he needs to give these women more. So now I'm left thinking he hasn't given them what they need in. In his personality, in. In communicating, in showing his emotion. So when Peg says she needs to feel more vulnerable and it's scary and it's risky, I'm like, are you kidding me? You're not getting anything. You couldn't be any more vulnerable.

[Susan]

He does say that he's thankful that she gave him the opportunity. So that's what they're going with. He. He loves being around her, her spirit. And then the thunder. Remember the thunder and the lightning? And he says that's a sign. I was like, thank you.

[Kathy]

Thank you.

[Susan]

You got some sense humor in there.

[Kathy]

Okay, did you hear it? When he said. And I. I literally rewound it twice because I burst out laughing. I'm. I got to be honest. And I mean, I like Mel. I've met him. He's a nice guy, too.

[Susan]

He's a great guy.

[Kathy]

When he says in the jeep one of his interviews, he needs. He wants Peg to lower to. To lower her tough exterior. He. He says she's guarded. I'm like, if she's guarded, Mel, you are guard. You are guarded to the 100th exponent. Like, are you serious? I mean, I thought that was so interesting that he said she needs to be less guarded. Holy smoke.

[Susan]

Because she is just like him. But she does say she wants to get to the next level after him, saying thank you for the opportunity and how much he likes her and blah, blah, blah. But when he says, what do you think about going to the fantasy suites? That's all she had to Go on. He's thankful. He likes being around her. Like, what else is there?

[Kathy]

Oh, wait, I can tell you missed. Susan, we have to stop the presses here. You missed the important point. That puts Peg in the lead in this episode. Are you ready? I wrote it down. I had to watch it twice. She's full of joy and her sweaty, curly hair blowing in the wind. She's fearless, fun, and tough. Peg is perfect for me. This is all a quote. Peg is perfect for me. I'm all in. You know what I did? I went to the drugstore and bought a bottle of Clairol blonde dye and a curling iron. If that's all it takes to get a guy, I got this problem solved. I mean, seriously, he said that? Sweat and curly hair in the wind. Like, I'm all in?

[Susan]

Yeah, he's liking it. He likes her sweat. You know that some men like that. Why not? She gets active, she gets funky. She goes for it.

[Kathy]

You're killing me. You got to get a job at a PR firm. Are you serious? The emotion.

[Susan]

Where is the he's not giving emotion? So you got to go on the next best thing. Best thing.

[Kathy]

I like it when you get sweaty. Okay. Hey, Peg, if you're listening to this podcast, can you tell me how this worked out for you? How's your sweat and your curly hair?

[Susan]

And obviously, the overnights are the time that you take all the audio off. You really get to talk to one another. Okay. And we don't get to see that part. When they first got there, the little band was playing out off their balcony, and they danced for a second. They don't show us much. However, when they got up, they said, she says, is he exceeded it. The night exceeded her expectations, and they connected on a whole bunch of levels, whatever that means.

[Kathy]

They had sex. And that's.

[Susan]

I mean, that's all you can imagine. The sex was good. She feels safe, seen, heard, and they're really big steps. Okay, so your overnight went well.

[Kathy]

Exactly. Exactly. But you know what she said? She. Here's the thing. Here's the rub for me. She said several times, literally in a row, is he emotionally available? Those words. She also said she knows what she wants in her golden years. I'm also going to hearken back, if that's a word, to way back in the beginning, do you remember Peg saying so this all gives me, you know, pause. Peg saying, I'm retired. I'm looking for someone who's retired. I've raised my kids. I don't want kids. He's not retired. He's got kids, is emotionally available. I'm thinking, how many boxes is he checking for either one of these women now? Maybe he was great in bed, so that's another box to check. But come on.

[Susan]

Is that the definition of love is blind? The one you're in? Like, you're just blind to all the things that on your list and you're not checking any of them off?

[Kathy]

Maybe.

[Susan]

I mean, I don't know. Love is blind, right? Then we get to wait.

[Kathy]

Wait. And then.

[Susan]

And he was smiling. He looked a little more relaxed the next morning laying there. He said, do you want to get breakfast? Are you hungry?

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[Kathy]

Now, I found it interesting that Peg said that. And I've told you before, I see a lot of myself in Peg. I'm a puppy dog. I get excited. I'm, you know, I can rule the room. Sort of like Peg. But I loved when she said she was entertaining the idea of marriage for the first time in a long time, that she's excited about having a partner.

[Susan]

And.

[Kathy]

And Mel's answer was, I like you a lot. You're spared your energy and wants to explore it further. Again, I keep coming back to that. I have to give Mel props. He wants to explore it further. He's not in love. So maybe he had great sex, but he's not in love. I don't.

[Susan]

He said the same thing to Cindy.

[Kathy]

I know.

[Susan]

He doesn't know about getting married. He likes her a lot. And where is this going? He doesn't know. I mean, that's later. So let's. Okay, wait.

[Kathy]

I got one more question.

[Susan]

He's leaving the overnight. That wasn't good for me either. For either Juanipeg or Mel. Because normally as I've watched the shows as they kiss goodbye and you know they're going to go on the date with the other person, he doesn't turn back on. It's like in an emotional. It's an emotional hug and kiss. It was a simple kiss. He turned around and walked away. And she's stood there and watched all the way down the beach. And I was waiting for him to turn around, blow a kiss, give her a peace sign, give it a finger, for God's sake. I don't care what you do, but do something.

[Kathy]

Give me something. It's so funny you said that because. Because I thought the same thing. Like Peg looked like she's waiting for a bus. And you know, and, and he's walking and you know, he's walking away. You know, he's got, he's got a bus to catch in the other direction.

[Susan]

I do Think I was disappointed.

[Kathy]

Yeah, I was, too. Mel did say, though, that they are compatible. I don't know. I almost find myself, you know, I'm sure I'll take heed for this one, too. I almost wonder if, you know, Mel has said many times that his love, the only love he's ever had, was his wife.

[Susan]

Yes.

[Kathy]

And his ex wife. I almost wonder if he can't. The reason he's struggling so much is he can see he said Peg is compatible with me. Like that's what he's looking for. Maybe he doesn't want or can't feel that deep love because he was so hurt by what happened in his marriage. I don't know.

[Susan]

But could be that or it could be. Also, it's only been a month, right? Some people don't feel real love.

[Kathy]

It does. Exactly. And it takes a slow burn and all that. I'm just saying we're not. As far as the show goes, we as an audience are not getting the romance that we want. We're not getting the emotional ties. We're not getting the, oh, my God, he's fallen in love. We got Peg, who's running a circus, and I mean that the best way. She's having a blast. And we have Cindy, who is, you know, the damsel in distress and just needs some affirmation that he loves her, which she's never gonna get. At least not in this episode and maybe not in the finale. Maybe. Who know? We don't know yet. But it doesn't appear that this is in his wheelhouse. And so, you know, that's a big struggle.

[Susan]

Also, what we have to compare to is our Gary, who was very emotional. The world saw what he felt and he shared. And this guy, you can't blame Mel for being who he is. No, I'll give him that. He doesn't wear it on his sleeve. He keeps. Maybe at the end he just bursts out and says, you're the one. I'm hoping something comes.

[Kathy]

You know what I've got. I really have given this a lot of thought, Susan. If I am trying to get a guy to open up to me and show me his love and care and put his arms around me, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna put him in the ocean with a pile of stingray. That's what I'm gonna do.

[Susan]

He didn't put his arm around either.

[Kathy]

Let's talk about that day. We gotta go. Guy who's scared to death of horses, you know, when he's on the horse, With Cindy, he. He can't drive a dune buggy more than five miles an hour. And now we're in with stingrays, who, by the way, have not stung anyone in like 30 plus years. And he's scared to death. What?

[Susan]

How about when he's going in for the date and he shares. He has such good feelings, strong feelings for Cindy and he feels really hopeful about Cindy. And then they get on the boat and it looks so sweet, and they talk about the stingrays. They're cheering to champagne. I'm sorry, Mel. I know you on the outside world and you're a great guy, but you're a dead fish here. You're a dead fish. You're not showing anything.

[Kathy]

Don't you insult stingrays like that. I think he does say, though, again, I'm telling you, I'm going back and forth and I realize I'm all over the map here because parts of the show really spoke to me. He did say to Cindy, I like you a lot. But it's a process. He is literally spelling out to Cindy. And I'm. I'm talking to Cindy on the tv, going, cindy, he's telling you he can't do it in this frame, this amount of time.

[Susan]

He likes you. Something positive, he's saying.

[Kathy]

Exactly. But he's saying, I like you a lot. I want. I want to know you better. To him, that's a huge deal. And Cindy, of course, is saying, you know, you make me feel comfortable. You make me feel safe. You know, she's crazy about him. I'm falling in love. She could see a life of them, yada, yada, yada. He is. Cannot get there.

[Susan]

All she wants is to know his intentions. She speaks up.

[Kathy]

He said softly.

[Susan]

I mean, that's all she wants.

[Kathy]

Wait a minute. No, I'm going to disagree with you. That is not what.

[Susan]

What is holding him back?

[Kathy]

I. Right, here's what I think Cindy wants. I think Cindy is in love with Mel. And I think Cindy wants him to tell her that he's falling in love with her. She's cajoling it. Well, that's not knowing her intentions. That is. I'm sorry, that is not. Cindy wanted to know his intentions. He's made his intention. Intentions very clear, Susan. His intention is to try to pick one of these women and go down the road and see if there's a future with them. He has said it six ways to Sunday. Cindy's not liking what she's hearing. That's a different. Well, that's not. That's different obvious.

[Susan]

But she said it out loud. She wants to know his intentions prior to getting on the boat. That was one of the things she said. And I like you a lot. And that's a big deal. She's crazy about him.

[Kathy]

Yes. We just settle that. But if you say to someone, what are your intentions? In Cindy's case, she wants him to say what she said.

[Susan]

He.

[Kathy]

She wants. She doesn't want to know his intentions. Again, he's made his intentions very clear. This relationship will have to develop over time. He says those words to her. He makes his intentions very clear. That isn't what Cindy wants. Cindy wants reciprocity. She wants to hear that he's falling in love with her and he ain't doing it. And I don't blame him.

[Susan]

It takes lots of time. It's. He doesn't do a leap of faith. He doesn't act like that. That he doesn't jump in on a leap of faith. He doesn't know.

[Kathy]

But I respect ever getting married.

[Susan]

He likes that. Excuse me.

[Kathy]

Do you respect that?

[Susan]

Respect what? That he doesn't jump in and fake the love. Yeah. No.

[Kathy]

And say he won't take a leap of faith. I respect that.

[Susan]

But you can't read him. You don't know. Do you like me? Am I wasting my time? You got to give me something.

[Kathy]

He did encourage you a lot.

[Susan]

I found difficult in the whole season was okay. Maybe you do feel a spark for him. Somebody's got to give you some feedback to have these feelings to go with something like these two are at the end they wear. Was that when did they feel like he was very interested in them. I missed it.

[Kathy]

So did I. I don't disagree with you. What I'm saying, Susan, is he has made his intentions clear. Maybe. Maybe when he kissed Deb. Cindy. Maybe when he kissed Peg. Maybe that was a, you know, tongue down the throat kind of. Wow, he must really like me because he's doing. And women can fall fast. We all know that. But for the first time in this episode, I was like, okay. We have been being hit over the head with this hammer of Mel not wanting to commit, saying he's not committing. It's a process. I like you a lot, but I want to doubt. But the will might be to get to know you better. In his mind, the way is not to get engaged or not to say I love you. I don't know. We don't know what happens yet.

[Susan]

But I think he just wants to take well whoever he picks the next step and you start Dating. And let's see if love develops for him. Yeah, it doesn't come easily and freely.

[Kathy]

Can I tell you the, the, the show, the, the show you and I could write. He doesn't choose either one and he dates them both to see which one he falls in love with. It's like a year from now we, we have a.

[Susan]

If you were that one of them, would you accept he's going to date both of us after the show? Hell no.

[Kathy]

Yeah, me. Are you asking what I would do if I, if I understood who he was and I thought that given enough time he would fall in love with me because I'm self confident. But I understand his process is different. Yeah, I probably would.

[Susan]

You would let him date me? Okay, so it's me and you at the end. There is not a chance in hell you would go for that. Kathy, you're so full of shit right now.

[Kathy]

No way. No way. I think if nobody, Wait a minute. If he said, and you and I are really good friends. So that's a whole different.

[Susan]

Not me, just somebody else on the show.

[Kathy]

If he said to me, listen, I want to date you and I want to date, you know, Sally, you know, I don't know who Sally is. Some other woman. And I would have a few parameters around it. Mine would be, listen, I only have sex with men that I'm in a relationship with.

[Susan]

And so there would be no sex.

[Kathy]

So for me there would be. You can touch all the parts of my body.

[Susan]

I'm not even talking about sex. But you're just okay with him? I'm going to date both of you.

[Kathy]

For a while I thought.

[Susan]

I don't believe that.

[Kathy]

Susan. Listen, I thought. He is my man. I love this man. And it's just taking him longer to round third basing get to home bases. You know, I, I, I hit a home run. The first time I met that guy. I fell in love. I'm sitting on home plate waiting for this guy to run the bases. Right? I'm saying to you, if I were that in love with him as Cindy says she is, I would, I would. I'm just telling you, I would entertain it. I, I don't know, I'm not in the situation, but I would entertain the idea. But I think that.

[Susan]

I can't say that I would.

[Kathy]

Okay, so what did you think? We gotta talk about.

[Susan]

Grab it or you lose it. Goodbye.

[Kathy]

Okay, what did you.

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No, after Thanksgiving. Okay, that's different. That's different. Halloween? No, not Halloween.

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[Kathy]

What did you think about the dinner? Because I'll tell you, I was sitting on the edge of my seat with.

[Susan]

Uncomfortable, uncomfortable, the one with Cindy. And you know what? I. I started to feel, oh boy, she's going to leave. I know it. She's not feeling anything. What did she. I thought like maybe she's just going to tell him. Forget it. Like her, she was kept Keeping her composure. She's such a fine woman. I really, really admire Cindy and I like her, but I saw her face. Her emotion was all over her face. And she's like, I'm barking up an empty tree here. Like, what's going on?

[Kathy]

I think Cindy has talked, you know, on the episodes about, you know, giving him grace. And yes, under da, da, da, da, da. And I think that Cindy. I mean, I don't know. I'm putting words in her mouth, not trying to. I. I felt horror struck. I felt like, oh, my God, is. I. We don't know. Of course. Thank God for cliffhangers. I'm thinking, is he gonna send her home? Are they even gonna have. Now the, The. The. The. The promos for next week suggests there is a. Yeah, she's there. She's there. That there is a. I found myself thinking, is he gonna say to her, you. That I was waiting for it to happen. You've pushed me too far. I can't give you what I want, what you want, and therefore, we're not a good match. So, you know, bye, bye.

[Susan]

Opposite. I thought she was gonna say, you're not giving me anything. I'm leaving. Like, that's all I could think of. She was so empty there. I felt so bad for her.

[Kathy]

Well, I felt terrible for her, but I felt like the. The world was closing in on her. I did. I felt like the world was closing in. But I think both of these women are lovely, hopeful women, and they've come this far in the process. I would. I would find it difficult to believe that either one would not go through the process. That's me.

[Susan]

I would know because that's. You know, you gotta wait to the end. You never know.

[Kathy]

That's okay.

[Susan]

Don't know what he's thinking.

[Kathy]

That's especially him. So. So I. I would not. I could. Let me put it this way. I could imagine Mel sending her home because he clearly sees what she wants and he's clearly says he can't give it. I could see him sending her home before. I could see her leaving because she's invested so much.

[Susan]

I think he likes her, though.

[Kathy]

Can I put you on the spot? In this episode. In this episode, who do you think he likes more? And you can't say both. None of your answers. Both.

[Susan]

Because I haven't think he has more fun with Peg, but he likes the depth of Cindy, but I don't. He's not ready for all that depth. So I would think Peg. Because of the fun.

[Kathy]

So I think I agree with what you said Peg is fun. More fun in that way. You know, laugh a minute. But if you watch him, he looked more comfortable with Cindy. He's smiling at her a lot because.

[Susan]

She wasn't scaring the daylights out of him going 90 miles.

[Kathy]

Well, then that's why I think Cindy would be the pick. Exactly what you're saying for exactly that. That he seems more at ease, more at peace, calmer, more trusting. Where he seems in awe of Peg. That word just came to me.

[Susan]

He seems more like trusting, more calm.

[Kathy]

Calm with. With Cindy. With Peg, it's more in awe, like, oh, what's she going to do next? Wow, she's a ball of energy, which is great.

[Susan]

But that's why I see somebody to bring that out in him. With Cindy, he is calm, but like their date was calm. The other date wasn't calm.

[Kathy]

The stingray date was calm.

[Susan]

That was like an easy. And it was quiet in the water.

[Kathy]

Have a nervous breakdown.

[Susan]

He wanted nothing to do with the stingray. She finally got him to at least. Least touch it. But it's not his game. So I'm thinking, why wouldn't they talk about that? Like, if it's something he's not going to be involved in, maybe we could have picked something else.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

Jump down the waterfalls or something.

[Kathy]

Yeah, well, he probably wouldn't do that either.

[Susan]

He looks so uncomfortable. And she was all about it.

[Kathy]

And she looked uncomfortable with the fish. Yes.

[Susan]

Yes.

[Kathy]

No, that's what I'm saying. I'm just trying to guess you, you know, Come on, we got to make a guess at who he ends up with. I say pigs, Peg or nobody and you say pet. Because he has more fun with her.

[Susan]

I think she brings life in back into him. Yes. He's not the hopeless romantic. And it's all about love. Like Cindy's. Like me, I am a help helpful romantic, but it's all about love and depth and oh, I just want to squeeze you and.

[Kathy]

But he said he had that with his wife. So you don't think he wants on set I'm anymore.

[Susan]

I don't know that he doesn't want it, but I know that he's not ready for it. He's not there yet.

[Kathy]

Okay, I. I agree with you on all that. I agree.

[Susan]

And I think Peg just excites him and he gets a kick out of her.

[Holiday Shopper]

Yeah.

[Susan]

And you know, some guys like the woman to shine and the one like you were saying in your marriage, some men do enjoy it. Other men find that uncomfortable.

[Kathy]

Can I say one more Thing here. I. Do you remember when the rose ceremony with Debbie, Cindy and Peg?

[Susan]

Yes.

[Kathy]

And do you remember Mel stood there and he said, all three of you deserve a rose. What did I say to you? Either on camera or off camera. I said, he'd like to take bits and pieces of all three of them. He'd like to meld those three women into one. Now. You know what? I think I'm convinced more than ever he would. That's why it's hard to pick one. I'm with you. He could go either way. Peg for fun, blah, blah, blah. But I think if he could, if he could magically do it, he would take pieces of Cindy and pieces of Peg and meld them into one in his mind. Perfect woman.

[Susan]

Don't you wish we could do that with several people we've known?

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

That's not even a thing, Kathleen.

[Kathy]

But it just makes me think that if he gets engaged, it's got to be a different kind of engagement. Because you, if you get down on one knee and you say to Peg or Cindy, I, you know, I want to spend the rest of my life with you. Hell, he can't even say that he loves him. So how is he going to.

[Susan]

I want to continue to date you.

[Holiday Shopper]

Right.

[Kathy]

That's not an engagement, Susan.

[Susan]

No, it's not. It is.

[Kathy]

That is not.

[Susan]

And in your case, maybe he's going to date both of them and Kathy will be okay with that. And I will chime in every. Every week.

[Kathy]

You know what else is going to happen, Susan? He's gonna date both of them. And two's company and three's a crowd. I'm gonna be the crowd I'm going into.

[Susan]

Maybe they'll call Debbie and maybe she should come back and date them too. No, I just, I, I can't wait for next week.

[Kathy]

Can you believe it's the finale? I. It's gone so quickly and yet not quickly enough.

[Susan]

I know. It really did go fast. I feel like. You know what? That was a lot of fun today. I can't wait till our next next talk because it's going to be a two hour show. We might need a two hour podcast for that one.

[Kathy]

You know, I can't and I cannot wait to see how that cliffhanger ends. I. I knew they were going to do it. I was watching the clock going, oh, we're not going to find out.

[Susan]

I know. I hate when they do that. Okay, well, just thank everybody, all of you listeners, I just love how you give me feedback in my emails and telling me what you think of our show and whether you agree agree with us or not. I just love it. I share it with Kathy every week. And we can't wait to chat about the finale that's just right around the corner.

[Kathy]

It's all true. In the meantime, be sure to follow Bachelor Happy Hour as we have new episodes coming out every week that you don't want to miss. We are, we're gonna move on to the next Bachelor scene. This Mel and whoever he chose, if he chooses someone, are gonna go up, fade off into the sunset, and you and I are going to have all new episodes coming.

[Susan]

Absolutely. Listen to Bachelor Happy hours golden hour on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to your podcast. Until next time, have a great week.

[Holiday Shopper]

I consider myself to be a pretty good gift giver. I've got my list.

Checked it twice, probably three times. She takes the holidays very seriously.

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Oh, let me make an announcement.

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[Susan]

With me, Katie Couric.

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I sat down with Bernie Sanders.

[Susan]

We've talked many times over the years and today he even throws a few questions my way. All right, are you ready for another question?

[Kathy]

Go ahead, hit me Bernie.

[Susan]

We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and of course, the government shutdown.

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[Kathy]

On the podcast Health Stuff, we are.

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Tackling all the health questions that keep.

[Kathy]

You up at night.

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[Kathy]

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How preventable is type 2?

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Extremely.

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This is an iHeart podcast.