Michael Allio: Single-Parent Love Lives and Overcoming Grief | Golden Hour

Summary

Bachelor Happy Hour: Michael Allio — Single-Parent Love Lives and Overcoming Grief | Golden Hour

Release Date: July 24, 2026
Guest: Michael Alio (The Bachelorette and Bachelor in Paradise alum, author, single dad)
Hosts: Susan, Kathy (Golden Bachelor alums)

---

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and insightful episode, Susan and Kathy sit down with Michael Alio, beloved Bachelor Nation alum and widower, to discuss his journey through grief, the blessings and challenges of single parenthood, finding love again, and the release of his new children’s book, The Wild Heart. The conversation delves deeply into coping with loss, parenting philosophies, life after reality TV, blending families, and maintaining hope for new beginnings.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life After Loss: Grief and Transformation

• On How He's Changed Since 'The Bachelorette'
  Michael reflects on the transformation he’s undergone since first appearing on reality TV, two years after losing his wife, Laura.

  • "I would say this version of myself is just... a lot more grateful, a lot more clear than I've ever been." (04:54)

• The Ever-Evolving Nature of Grief

  • Michael shares the realization that grief is not something to 'get over,' but rather something to integrate.
  • "Healing isn't the absence of sadness. It's embracing it, actually... The amount of sadness that I felt is just the weight of the amount of love that I had for Laura." (11:36)

2. Single Parenthood and Keeping Memories Alive

• On Raising His Son, James
  • Michael discusses the challenge of raising his son alone, the balance between honoring Laura’s memory and allowing James to form his own identity.
  • "In the beginning I didn't want my son to forget how great his mother was... I had to stop myself because I could be pushing this kind of guilt on him that he doesn't remember." (17:09)
  • He highlights the importance of storytelling and nurturing nature over nurture: "I've said this before, it is nature all the way... She is very much in him." (17:40)

3. The Wild Heart: Writing Through Healing

• Origins of the Book

  • The Wild Heart grew organically out of bedtime stories Michael wrote for his son, not just about grief but about universal life lessons.
  • "I wrote actually 35 of these stories that we would read at bedtime... In many ways this book is equally for adults. Lessons that we forgot when we were kids." (19:00, 19:45)

• Themes Explored

  • Resiliency, honesty, courage, forgiveness, individuality, and nature’s cycles as metaphors for life’s seasons.

• Notable Quote:

  • "Grief isn't just about losing a person. It is about mourning the loss of the person that you thought you would be in that season." (21:01)

• Process of Healing Through Writing

  • "I was always writing that for myself. We always say the words we wish someone would say to us." (23:46)

4. Blended Families and Finding Love Again

• Introducing Jade (Partner)

  • Michael opens up about finding love again with Jade, whom he knew for years as a friend before the relationship blossomed.
  • "She’s literally like the light that we so needed in our life... it just felt really organic." (31:16)

• Challenges and Conversations

  • The difficulty of blending families and being sensitive to his late wife's memory: "Jade isn't looking to [replace Laura]... This chapter is all entirely hers." (33:12)

• Advice to Widowers and Supporters of Grievers

  • "Give them unconditional support. Let them make mistakes. Don't put timelines on them, don't judge them... If you want to have a bad day, have it. But stick with it long enough to know that there is hope at the end of this." (35:42)

5. Q&A: Relationship Advice & Life Wisdom

• On Commitment Timelines

  • "Errors happen when assumptions start getting made. It doesn't have to be an ultimatum... [She] could probably get a hint as to how committed he really is." (41:21, 42:31)

• On Dating Single Parents

  • "Have a conversation with the child's parent and say what makes you comfortable? How can I spend more time with the 6-year-old as just us two?" (44:04)

• On Finances and Changing Roles

  • "It's not a reflection of them too, as a relationship. It's just money, and that's just one of a million other things that people can provide in a relationship." (46:17)

6. Rapid-Fire 'Dating Edition' Game

• Michael gives candid, quick responses to prompts:
  • Green flag: "Consistency." (50:51)
  • Relationship deal-breaker: "When we don't laugh anymore." (51:11)
  • Most overrated advice: "That the more extravagant it is, the better." (51:23)
  • First date should always: "Be planned by the guy." (51:41)
  • Quickest way to ruin a date: "Talk about yourself the whole time." (51:59)
  • Biggest relationship 'ick': "Lying." (53:04)
  • Love is: "Unconditional." (52:20)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Healing isn't the absence of sadness. It's embracing it, actually." — Michael Alio (11:36)
• "It's just the weight of the amount of love that I had for Laura." — Michael Alio (11:36)
• "I was always writing that for myself. We always say the words we wish someone would say to us." — Michael Alio (23:46)
• "Give them unconditional support... There's no room for judgment in the widower community whatsoever." — Michael Alio (35:42)
• "Growth is happening in those still moments as well. Sometimes taking that step backwards is just regrouping so that you can make the next move." — Michael Alio (22:43)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Life Update: 03:05–04:54
• Reflections on Grief: 04:37–13:03
• Single Parenthood & Keeping Memories Alive: 16:16–19:45
• The Wild Heart — Book Discussion: 19:45–26:41
• Blending Families and Love After Loss: 31:07–35:42
• Advice for Widowed/Single Parents: 35:42–37:36
• Q&A Relationship Advice: 40:39–48:37
• Dating Edition Quick-fire Game: 50:49–54:11
• Final Words & Farewells: 55:17–57:37

---

Where to Find The Wild Heart

• Book website: thewildheartgrows.com
• Focus on supporting independent bookstores during the book's first year
• Unique illustrations by Luke Streeter (James’ best friend’s dad)

---

Where to Follow Michael Alio

• Instagram: @MichaelAlioL4
• (Not on TikTok: “Don’t even follow me on that!”)

---

Closing Thoughts

This episode is an honest, compassionate, and often uplifting look at living through loss, rebuilding joy, and nurturing family — both old and new. Michael Alio’s vulnerability and wisdom, combined with Susan and Kathy’s warmth, make this episode a source of comfort and insight for anyone facing similar challenges, or seeking inspiration for personal growth and resilience.

---

For more wisdom, behind-the-scenes stories, and exclusive Bachelor Nation insights, subscribe to Bachelor Happy Hour and follow the hosts at @BachelorHappyHour and @BachelorNation.

Transcript

[Mandy Woodruff Santos]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

I just received my order from Dietz and Watson. I am so excited. I got chicken sausages and flavored cheddar cheeses. I think my favorite one was the champagne cheddar. Dietz and Watson has been handcrafting premium meats and artisan cheeses for over 85 years. They're family owned and operated and they've never cut corners and ever. Dietzen Watson is simply made. It's as simple as that. Visit dietzandwatson.com the right way to learn more about the Deets Difference Charity what's

[Klarna Sponsor/Host]

something you almost always say yes to?

Oh, that's easy. A girls trip. No hesitation.

Same. That's why Klarna stands out. Klarna gives you smarter tools to manage your money, so saying yes to what matters doesn't have to feel overwhelming. With flexible ways to pay cash back that builds automatically and everything in one place, life feels manageable.

Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more.

California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to California Finance Law License NMLS Number 1353190 Klarna Balance Account required to be eligible for cashback points. Limitations, terms and conditions apply. Hey, question. Are you an ExtraCare member at CVS? Because there's literally no reason not to be. It's super easy to join and members instantly get extra big deals on the things you buy most. I mean, this is the stuff you're already buying. Snacks, personal care products, all of it. And after you join, the savings just start to show up. Deals are fresh every two weeks, but they don't last long. Head to your local CVS or open the CVS app, look for extra big deals and start saving today.

Quick pause for reef because your feet deserve better. You know them for sandals, but the Woman's Neptune is that effortless sneaker you didn't know you were missing. Missing. For me, I'm always on the go. Whether I'm running around the city, catching the subway, running through airports, trying to catch my next flight, or just trying to get through a long day comfortably, these Reef Neptune shoes have genuinely become my everyday go to. They're lightweight, super comfortable and extremely versatile, making it easy to style with literally anything. I love that I can slip them on, head out the door and know that my feet are taken care of all day. If you're looking for a shoe that keeps up with real life and these are it, check out the Woman's Neptune on reef.com and treat yourself to 15% off your first purchase.

[Popsicle Sponsor/Host]

The breakup no one saw coming has hit the freezer aisle. Cherry, orange and grape popsicle ice pops are going solo. Now fans must pick a side and help crown the flavorfew champion with a chance to earn a long term solo spot on freezer shelves. Pick up the cherry, orange and grape popsicle ice pop variety pack to experience all three iconic flavors and decide where your loyalty lies and then vote by shouting out your favorite on social. And don't forget to follow the flavor feud drama all summer long on Instagram Opsicle.

[Susan]

Welcome back, everyone, to the golden hour.

[Kathy]

I'm Susan and I think today I will be Kathy.

[Susan]

I think you will. How are you, honey?

[Kathy]

I'm just doing great. I'm loving World Cup. I just. I wish World cup came every year. I love soccer and do you know I understand the offsides rule. Just so we're all clear here and

[Susan]

I can a coach. Weren't you?

[Kathy]

I was a referee. I was a referee. Anytime.

[Susan]

I just watched those handsome guys kick that ball around. Damn.

[Kathy]

And they can't touch it with their hands, Susan. That's rule number one.

[Susan]

I know, I know.

[Kathy]

All right. Today we got this. I'm so excited.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

We.

[Kathy]

We have a very special guest this week who is not only a bachelorette alum and paradise alum too, I think, but he is coming out with a new children's book. Hello, Michael. Alio. How are you?

[Michael Alio]

Hey, Kathy. Hey, Susan. How you doing? Thanks for having me on.

[Kathy]

We are doing great. We are doing great. I don't even know where to begin. First of all, how are you? Let's start there.

[Michael Alio]

I'm doing great. Life is really good. I think we're in the seasons of blessings over here. And we're in the process of, like, remodeling every single room in our house. It started as one single room and now it's just exploded into everything. So I just got back from a thrift store and a bunch of stuff. I don't even know where it goes, but it's going to go.

[Kathy]

I just finished a remodeling. Trust me, it. It's like disease. It spreads very quickly.

[Michael Alio]

You get that work scope and it just takes off, takes a life of its own.

[Susan]

It's a project for sure. But, Michael, just to let our fans know a little bit more about you, how would you describe the version of Michael that walked on to the Bachelorette compared to who you are today? I know you've been through quite a bit.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah, I mean, I. I think anyone who's been on this show and been on the Bachelor, Bachelorette, any of the franchise shows, you get a snippet of what each person is. You never get the totality of what any individual is. And, I mean, I would say looking back on myself in the Bachelorette role, it was two years after Laura had passed. I was very much caught up in grief and trying to figure out where my life was really going, how I was going to make, you know, these next leaps and chapters into my life happen. You know, it was two years as a single parent, and at the time, I mean, anyone that's experienced grief whatsoever, you always feel as though if you're farther along from a time perspective, you feel like you're processing it better. But it isn't until afterwards, when you actually make sense of everything and life starts to take shape, that you can look backwards and say, man, I was. I was totally lost. So I would say this version of myself is just, I don't know, a lot more. A lot more grateful, a lot more clear than I. Than I've ever been.

[Kathy]

Yeah. Again, same thing. You know, walking through the grief that you and I have both losing spouses. Do you feel like your experience, though, changed you? Because I know my experience being on. On the Golden Bachelor changed me. Do you feel like it actually changed the way you look at life?

[Michael Alio]

I think it exposed me to things I otherwise would not have been exposed to. I mean, I think anytime you put yourself into. On. Onto a show, you. You welcome public praise and also public criticism at the same exact light. So that was one thing that I had to. To learn to adjust is waking up on a Monday morning and random people having an opinion about who headlines and all of that. So it's a bit of a bizarre world that you have to adjust to. But I would say at the. At the core, it really hasn't changed at all who I am. I feel like. I feel like in each season of my own life, I've. I've stayed pretty true to the principles that. That I've been raised with that seem to be working for the most part. Aren't bulletproof, but seem to be working. Yeah. And, you know, try to. Try to stay true to that.

[Susan]

And wasn't it true that your son wanted you to come home and you.

[Michael Alio]

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think. I think when I went on the show for the first time, looking back, we actually didn't even know Katie was going to be the Bachelorette. We were. We were sitting in quarantine in New Mexico, and all of a sudden, it was announced while we were there that Katie was going to be the Bachelorette. So it's like you're walking in there trying. You're kind of walking in to an experience, and then once it starts, then you kind of open yourself up to, you know, love and the whole entire process. And so it was. It was. It was a bizarre but really amazing experience. Like, I'm. I'm so happy that I. I did it because it's an experience few people can actually talk about.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

That's right.

[Susan]

And it had to help you with what you had just gone through for two years to help you take that next step back into your life again.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah. I mean, I was saying this before it was 2019. Laura passed then for two years, just trying to figure out, support system. What are these new normals? I was scared for my child that he's going to grow up with a dad that has no idea what he's doing, and he would be right to be scared about that. And then Covid hits, and then it's like, oh, my gosh, like, there was my whole entire support system. There goes everything. And it just so happened that the producers had reached out to me on Instagram during that time, and it felt like a good time to just kind of roll the dice and take a risk and jump into a new experience. And I'm happy I did it.

[Susan]

Saved you almost, if you will.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah. I needed the spark.

[Susan]

Yeah.

[Michael Alio]

And I. And I. And I think as. As we get older, there's. You can get caught up in the routine of life. You can lose your. Your zest, you know, your youthfulness, like the things that used to fire you up. And it's. It was an important reminder to me to. To say yes to things that feel uncomfortable and to dive in.

[Kathy]

Yeah. I have to say, and I've said this to Susan, you and I share the grief of losing a spouse and saying yes to opportunities has given me strength and solidified my walk through grief and dealing with all the things that we deal with. Your son, though, was two. Laura was 33 when she died. You had this two year old son. Was there a moment in time? Because my children were older when my husband Darrell died. Was there a moment where you realized that grief isn't just a momentary deal, it's something that you live with. It has different incarnations. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

Yeah.

[Michael Alio]

I mean, the short answer is I learn that every single day. Um, and I think there was a. A turning point where I wanted to go back to the person I was before grief hit my life. And I was wrongfully using that as the metric that I needed to get back to in the benchmark. And the truth is, is that when grief or something hits your life or you go through something that transformative, you're no longer that person anymore and kind of welcoming that new version of myself that had been through those, I mean, traumas that have been through the struggle that was the, the beginning to being able to, to heal. And again, healing isn't the absence of, of sadness. It's. It's embracing it, actually.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

Yeah.

[Michael Alio]

And it's allowing yourself to, to have all of those emotions that, that come with it. And it. I, I think for a while it was the, the avoidance of, of pain that I was seeking. And that was completely wrong. If I could go back to talk to myself again, I would tell myself, like, run into it, feel all the feels. It's, it's, it's just, you know, the amount of sadness that I felt is just the weight of the amount of love that I had for Laura. And so like that, that, that's a blessing and that's something I carry with me today.

[Susan]

Yeah, it's like finding you're happy again because you know, she would want you to be happy again. Your son needs you to be happy and positive.

[Michael Alio]

And we deserve it.

[Susan]

Yes.

[Michael Alio]

I mean, at the end of the day, like, I think there was, there was a long time there where I felt like an obligation to live a life for Laura. And I lost myself a little bit in that process. To be honest, I forgot who Michael was because I was very much in this service role of trying to do that. So as much as I honor Lauren in just about everything that I do, and I see her every day in my son, I lost a bit of my own identity in the process as a caregiver, as a father, as you guys know, as parents and all the roles that we play. Who are we now?

[Susan]

How did this happen?

[Michael Alio]

Yeah, how did this happen? And where are we?

[Klarna Sponsor/Host]

Charity. What's something you almost always say yes to?

Oh, that's easy. A girls trip, no hesitation.

Same. That's why Klarna stands out. Klarna gives you smarter tools to manage your money. So saying yes to what matters doesn't have to feel overwhelming. With flexible ways to pay cash back, that builds automatically and everything in one place, life feels manageable.

Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more.

California resident loans made or arranged pursuant to California Finance Law License NMLS Number 1353-10-Klarnau Balance Account required to be eligible for cashback points. Limitations, terms and conditions apply.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

I just received my order from Dietz and Watson. I am so excited. I got chicken sausages and flavored cheddar cheeses. You know, I'm from New England and I know a genuine New York State cheddar when I see it. They are infused with real ingredients, iconic flavors and a smooth, creamy finish. I think my favorite one was the Champagne cheddar. It just is delicious. And the chicken sausage. They never have antibiotics, no nitrates are added, they're gluten free and they have bold, authentic recipes. Dietz Watson has been handcrafting premium meats and artisan cheeses for over 85 years. They're family owned and operated and they've never cut corners. Ever. They're transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't and they know good taste better, doesn't need a long list of ingredients. Dietz and Watson is simply made. It's as simple as that. Visit dietzandwatson.com therightway to learn more about the Dietz difference.

[Mandy Woodruff Santos]

This is Mandy Woodruff Santos from Brown Ambition. You probably think of Walmart as a store that carries just about everything under the sun and maybe not as the place to discover small brands. Well, two things can be true at the same time because Walmart is home to thousands of small brands founded by people who had an idea, took a chance and built something of their own. Behind everyone is a real story and a lot of hard work. So why not take a little time to recognize all the people building small brands across the country and support everything they're creating? Walmart is proud to give those brands a place on its shelf. And online, it's never been easier to find and support small brands. So take a look at Walmart. You might come across something new, something unexpected or or a brand whose story speaks to you. You never know what you're missing until you look Discover thousands of small [e-mail]

[Michael Alio]

all new drinks are now at McDonald's

[Kathy]

with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher and the Mango Pineapple Refresher with Popping Boba to crafted sodas like the Sprite

[Michael Alio]

Berry Blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire six all new drinks are here now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine.

[Kathy]

You know, you talk about being a caregiver and getting Laura to all her doctor's appointments and everything that you had to do you had to be strong for her. And then that void, that emptiness, the suddenness of, okay, now I have a 2 year old to raise. And again, my children were older and we had different conversations about loss and grief and all of those things. But for me, my kids were obviously a little bit older. So in some ways it was more difficult. In some ways it was easier to have those conversations. But we now have gotten to a place in our family where we can make jokes and bring back the wonderful memories. That's gotta be different for you because your son was so young. How do you keep Laura's memory alive for James?

[Michael Alio]

Yeah, I would say in the beginning I didn't want my son to forget how great his mother was. And then there was a point where I had to stop myself because I could be pushing this kind of guilt on him that he doesn't remember. And so what I started to do was, I mean, I told him stories about his mom if he did something where he laughed, just like her. I mean, nature and nurture. I've said this before, it is nature all the way. I mean, he is, she is very much in him. And it's a, it's a beautiful thing to see. And just like you, Kathy, there was a time when we couldn't look back at those memories without being sad. And now we're looking back there with, with a smile as how blessed we were that, that, you know, out of the billions of years of the earth being around and all the billions of people, that somehow we cross paths and created something so beautiful as this kid. And so, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's absolutely a tragedy, but I've, I've tried to find the silver linings in it over time.

[Mandy Woodruff Santos]

Yeah.

[Susan]

And what made you start your book? What, what were your thoughts going in?

[Michael Alio]

Yeah, the, the book really wasn't meant to be a book. It was a way. Well, first it started as me acknowledging as a parent that I don't have the answers and breaching some of these topics are very uncomfortable for me. There's so many things I had to learn as being both mother and father. It was rub some dirt on it, then kisses.

[Popsicle Sponsor/Host]

Boo.

[Michael Alio]

Boo. Yeah.

[Susan]

Which one should I do? Make you a man, a tough guy or kiss that Boo Boo.

[Michael Alio]

Exactly. I gotta weigh these things out. So, I mean, I've tried to learn all of these things and one thing I've always loved doing was writing. So again, it never started as a book. I wrote actually 35 of these stories that we would read at bedtime. That addressed not just grief, but growing up and all of the challenges that could be losing touch with a friend, that could be forgiving people, resentfulness, individuality. All of these things that kids, but also grownups struggle with too. And so in many ways, this book is. Is equally for adults.

[Susan]

Yes.

[Michael Alio]

Lessons that we forgot when we were kids. And it's. It's really explained through kids stories because we're more open to hearing it when it's in kids language than when someone's preaching at us.

[Kathy]

Yeah. And kids. And kids are so not judgmental. They're so open to receiving, Receiving messages. But, and I have to tell the truth here, I've already ordered your book. We're gonna tell people where they can get it in a bit here. But I've already read your book and ordered several copies because I think that people will think if they know your story, that this book is about grief. And while it does touch on grief, what I was taken with when I read your book, like three times. First of all, the fabulous, incredible illustrations, but also you talk about resiliency, friendship, honesty, courage, all these attributes that we want our children to embrace. And sometimes as adults, we need reminders.

[Michael Alio]

Yes. And thank you for reading it. I really appreciate it. We poured so much into this. And James actually hand selected seven of the stories in the book. And we used really nature as a metaphor for. For growing up, growing old, and explaining the seasons of life. Because nothing can teach us about seasons more than nature. And one of the best things to that I have learned over the years is no matter what type of emotion you're feeling, you have to be able to identify it first. You have to be able to understand and name it. Yeah, name it. And understand that it's not going to last forever. That we've seen these cycles before in our life, whether it was when we were 15, trying to figure out what we're going to do with the rest of our life, whether it was the right person to get married with, struggling to get the job, saving to get the money, all of these things. We have gone through these cycles of celebrating and beating ourselves up. And you know, grief isn't just about losing a person. It is about mourning the loss of the person that you thought you would be in that season.

[Kathy]

That's right at that moment in time. And I think that for me, again, Michael, I want to become your publicist because I am totally sold on this book. But I also feel like it reminds people. We all get so busy with our lives, living in the moment, literally smelling the roses literally looking up at the clouds, looking at the. Every, every story that in this book has, has multi layers of meaning. And I, I think that's why to

[Susan]

me it's about being grateful. Right?

[Michael Alio]

Grateful for there's, there's nature, there's gratitude in it. It is, it is also appreciating the, the stillness and in our lives. I know that me, for example, I feel a type of anxiety when I don't feel progress in my life. I feel like things are stagnant. I get antsy. But the truth is, is that growth is happening in those still moments as well. And sometimes taking that step backwards is just regrouping so that you can make the next move. And so, and there's, and there's a lot of different stories about that that really put nature at the root of, to help bring us. At least for me and James, these are all our bedtime stories. It brought us a sense of, of calm, knowing that we're not the only ones that experienced this. It's really shared by almost everything in this planet.

[Susan]

And as you were writing these short stories for his bedtime, do you think you were helping yourself heal at the same time?

[Michael Alio]

I, I was always writing that for myself.

[Susan]

Yeah.

[Michael Alio]

I mean we always say the words we wish someone would say to us. Right. And this book, if you read it, it doesn't lecture, it doesn't give you answers. It's. It's supposed to create a conversation. Yeah, a little critical thinking. Create a, a natural bridge between parent and child so that a conversation can happen. And what I have found is that every time I just had a conversation about the birds and bees with my son, I was freaking out about how

[Kathy]

in this up is that in volume two of the next book.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah, that's a different kind of nature that did not get put out of this book. But I'm sitting there sweating like, oh my God, how do I bring this up? Geez, I wish I could get some help here.

[Klarna Sponsor/Host]

I brought.

[Michael Alio]

And he was like, oh, okay, cool. Like he totally understood it. He, you know, he. I'm sure he'll have follow up questions, but kids can understand. I don't know. Kids can handle things sometimes a lot better than adults can.

[Susan]

Yeah, we overthink things.

[Michael Alio]

We overthink everything.

[Kathy]

And kids are, I think, much more resilient as they are. They're just there and they're, they, they're not as judgmental. I mean it's, it's really. We all need to recapture our child like brains and minds because in a way yes.

[Michael Alio]

And when I was writing this book. I'm glad, Kathy, when you read it, you saw the layers. Because I really wanted it to be a way for parent and child to connect at bedtime. But I also wanted parents to. It's almost a kid's book written for adults, too. On the flip side.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

Yeah.

[Michael Alio]

And for example, there's a story about a tale of two streams in here, where two streams live their whole entire life running parallel to each other. They swear they're going to be best friends for the rest of their life. And then they run into this big boulder that forces them to go their opposite directions. One takes the highland, the other one goes to the Lowland. They experience totally different things and are fulfilled as individuals by that journey. So that one obstacle felt like the end of the world, but life continues and they end up coming back together completely changed and better for it. So a kid may see two streams, but an adult may see a friend that they lost touch with, that maybe they've outgrown. In this season of life, maybe it's a partner in a relationship, in a divorce, where. That's where the road ends, and that's okay. And if the world brings us back together, then so be it. But for now, this season, it's time for us to go our different ways.

[Susan]

Have you always been this level headed? I mean, come on, tell me the truth now. Who are you?

[Michael Alio]

It depends on who you talk to, I guess.

[Klarna Sponsor/Host]

You know,

[Kathy]

I was going to ask you, Michael, if. Because truly, I love all the stories. Is there one story that feels particularly personal to you?

[Michael Alio]

I mean, they're all rooted in, in something that happened in my life. There's, there's a. The bird that carried stones, I think is one that's highly relatable, where the. There's stones thrown at this bird and this bird figures out that the only way it can stay safe is if it gathers all the stones on the ground and sits on them. And so it just sits on these stones and it keeps them from flying. And so it's starts to let them go. And, and that's, I think, I think letting go and forgiveness is an easy thing to understand and to say. And it's a hard thing to truly feel. You really have to. You know, resentfulness can, can. Can breed people that have done you wrong in the past. And really, what are we doing with all of that? We're really just carrying in, reliving the worst situation that happened to us over and over and over again and giving it more weight. You got to let it go.

[Kathy]

I have to say, gotta let it go. But for me, the. The story about the tree, especially for you and me who have. Have suffered this extreme loss. And as you say, people have all kinds of losses in their life. But this tree that is. Is worried about in the fall loses its leaves, its acorns, it can', shelter, it can't provide nourishment, all those things. But in the spring, it starts over. And I read that book and it's read that story and it's such a reminder that we stand tall and

[Mandy Woodruff Santos]

we

[Kathy]

have that rebirth and it's up to us to find ways to build a new life. My heart was broken when my husband died, but I am a better person for it. I've learned so many lessons and changed so much. So that's the story that speaks to me. They all speak to me.

[Michael Alio]

But I. I love, I absolutely love that you. You connected with that one. And I think for me, that is a lesson looking at my life down the road that I'm a parent right now and I will be the best damn parent that I can be. But that's not all I can be. And I can't wrap my whole entire life and acceptance and anxiety into a child that will go off and create his own life for himself. And I've seen this happen with so many parents where once they become empty nesters, they look at their. And they say, who are we?

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Michael Alio]

You know, when, when there's no longer a schedule. When there's no longer, you know, mom and dad and yes. Plates and dishes and all these things. So we can't lose ourselves in. In the wilderness.

[Kathy]

Michael, that's when you take up golf.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Right before we move on.

[Susan]

No, no, no. But you found love again, so.

[Kathy]

That's right. But before we get there, before we get there, tell everyone how do they order your book? Because you are not through Amazon or anything. How do, how do people get this

[Michael Alio]

incredible book so you can buy it online@the wildheartgrows.com we're selling it online and focusing for the first 12 months just on independent bookstores. Mom and pops that have been doing good work out there that really kind of curate the experience. The book's really meant to be this heirloom thing that you return back to at different seasons of your life, reread it and share it. All the illustrations were done by a fellow dad whose son is actually James's best friend. He's a professional oil painter named Luke Streeter. And he. He did 35 oil on canvas illustrations for this book by hand. And it's, it's absolutely stunning, and we're so proud of it.

[Susan]

Good for you. I can't wait to read it.

[Kathy]

I can't wait to get my copies.

[Michael Alio]

Oh, yeah, I think they're gonna get shipped out next week.

[Kathy]

Oh, yay. I can hardly wait.

[Klarna Sponsor/Host]

Yeah.

[Susan]

Now tell us about Jade.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

Yeah.

[Michael Alio]

Oh, where do I start?

[Susan]

Yes, where do you start? Where did it start?

[Kathy]

Look at the big smile on his face. Look at that.

[Michael Alio]

I got so lucky with this one. She, she's literally like the light that we so needed in our life. And so it was after I got off the Bachelorette, she sent me a DM on Instagram and there was nothing romantic. It was just a long distance friendship. She had gone through some things in her life that she related to, and from there we just had just a long friendship over the span of, geez, five, six years. And it really wasn't until about two and a half years ago, something around that, that we came back kind of into each other's lives. She was getting off a breakup, so was I. And it was nice because it just, it was a relationship that started as a friendship.

[Susan]

Friendship. Yeah.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Michael Alio]

Which it was, it was just really, really nice. We knew each other. We had been there for each other in the past. There was no, like, facade or anything like that. It just felt really organic. And she's, I mean, just to watch her and James interact, it's such a relief to me that he reaches for her the way he does. It's, it's, it's all of these years of worrying that I had, wondering if that was ever going to happen and if it did, would it ever feel this good? And all of those have been answered when you.

[Kathy]

Yeah. So Jade and you live together. And I'm curious how that, how you, you morphed, if you will. You're, you and James were a team for how many years before. How does that, how did you, how did you manage that? I guess is my question.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah, I, I, it's. To say that it's easy to blend a family would be a lie. It is a challenge, especially, you know, somebody that lost their mother. It was, it was. We really had to have a lot of conversations about how Laura can never be replaced and that how Jade isn't looking to do that. I had to have a lot of conversations with Jade about the fact that she never has to compete with Laura because this chapter is all entirely hers. There are so many things that Jade and I are doing with James right now that are the first time I've ever been able to co parent with somebody and the first time I've ever been able to have these kind of memories with. And so it. Jade moved in two years ago and at first James was like, this is a lot of change happening.

[Susan]

Yeah.

[Michael Alio]

But Jade did just such a wonderful job of putting him at peace. Like sitting with him, answering his questions, reading him stories. And now it's like that's the kind of. I mean, it's just such a complete household now. Like, it just feels really, really good.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

Does he refer to her as mom or. No.

[Michael Alio]

You know, sometimes he does when we're at like school events because he's just like calling daddy's girlfriend. And like he, he looked over at her, he's like, just say you're my mom. And you know, we're trying to walk through all that, but he's not really overly focused on, on titles and, and stuff like that.

[Kathy]

Again, that's the innocence of childhood.

[Michael Alio]

Yes, it really, I mean I, I guess every kid to their probably has their own experience, but James hasn't been focused on that. He, he just recognizes that for a long time at school events, at birthday parties, we were missing a piece. And now, now we actually feel like a complete full picture.

[Kathy]

So since you, since you are so articulate and you have found love a second time and aren't you are lucky and, and we are both so happy for you. But, but what do you say, or what would you say to someone who has lost a spouse and wonders if they're ever going to find love again? What would you want them to know?

[Michael Alio]

I would say, well, the first thing I'll say is for those people that surround them, give them unconditional support. Let them make mistakes. Don't put timelines on them, don't judge them. Like, sit with them. Listen to them. You have no idea the challenges that it takes to get back on your feet and to begin walking again after you've been wounded so poorly. So there's no room for judgment in the widower community whatsoever. And just some of the things that I've experienced myself, I would just say the best thing you can do is, is, is just love and support them. And if it's uncomfortable watching somebody go through it and it's uncomfortable watching someone date again, imagine how uncomfortable it is for them to have to do it. Like, it's uncomfortable for everybody. But that's the growth. And for people that have lost somebody, I would say that do what you want. Like, ignore the noise if you Want to have a bad day? Have it. But stick with it long enough to know that there is hope at the end of this. There is it. Grief never goes away. We. We find new ways of working with it. It eventually becomes a feeling that. That feels more normal than it. Than it does anything else.

[Susan]

It's always, always there, but it's not always front.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah. It's not always. And there are. There are certain songs, there's certain moments where you'll feel it all again.

[Susan]

Yeah.

[Michael Alio]

And embrace. Embrace those. Because sometimes that. That pain that we feel is the connection that we still have to the person we lost.

[Popsicle Sponsor/Host]

Yeah.

[Susan]

Yes.

[Kathy]

Well said.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

Well said.

[Susan]

I love it.

[Kathy]

Okay, so now we're going to ask

[Susan]

you to do something really good.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

You're gonna love this, Michael. Every week we answer questions because we are goldens and we have all the answers to everyone's problems.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Yeah, you do.

[Kathy]

And so will you help us. We've got some questions here and we weigh in on your opinion.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah, let's fire away.

[Kathy]

All right, Susan, take it.

[Susan]

Do this, Michael. Okay,

[Klarna Sponsor/Host]

Charity, what's something you almost always say yes to?

Oh, that's easy. A girls trip. No hesitation.

Same. That's why Klarna stands out. Klarna gives you smarter tools to manage your money. So saying yes to what matters doesn't have to feel overwhelming. With flexible ways to pay cash back that builds automatically and everything in one place, life feels manageable.

Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more.

California resident loans made or arranged pursuant to California finance law, license NMLS number 1353190. Klarna balance account required to be eligible for cashback points. Limitations, terms and conditions apply.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

I just received my order from Dietz and Watson. I am so excited. I got chicken sausages and flavored cheddar cheeses. You know, I'm from New England and I know a genuine New York state cheddar when I see it. They are infused with real ingredients, iconic flavors, and a smooth, creamy finish. I think my favorite one was the champagne cheddar. It just is delicious. And the chicken sausage, they never have antibiotics, no nitrates are added. They're gluten free and they have bold authenticity recipes. Dietz and Watson has been handcrafting premium meats and artisan cheeses for over 85 years. They're family owned and operated and they've never cut corners, ever. They're transparent about what goes into their food and what doesn't. And they know good taste doesn't need a Long list of ingredients. Dietz Watson is simply made. It's as simple as that. Visit dietzandwatson.com the right way to learn more about the Dietz difference.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Jacob this is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? You probably think of Walmart as the store that carries just about everything under the sun and maybe not as the place to discover small brands. Well, two things can be true at the same time because Walmart is home to thousands of small brands founded by people who had an idea, took a chance, and built something of their own. Behind every one is a real story and a lot of hard work. So why not take a little time to recognize all the people building small brands across the country and support everything they're creating? Walmart is proud to give those brands a place on its shelves and online. It's never been easier to find and support small brands. So take a look at Walmart. You might come across something new, something unexpected, or a brand whose story speaks to you. You never know what you're missing until you look. Discover thousands of small brands.

[Susan]

@walmart.com it says, hi, Susan and Kathy. I'm 28 and I've been dating my boyfriend for three years. And everyone keeps asking when we're getting engaged except him. He says he wants to marry me someday, but he won't talk about a timeline. How long do you wait before asking if you're actually on the same page

[Kathy]

that talk about labels? What do you think, Michael?

[Michael Alio]

Oh, geez. Yeah, I mean, without knowing too much about their relationship, I would say,

[Susan]

I

[Michael Alio]

would say have a, have a hard conversation with the guy. It's, it's kind of a three years moment. Yeah.

[Susan]

Like, and you're 28. The clock's ticking, as they say.

[Michael Alio]

You know what? I will say this, this is one thing a lot of guys don't understand. They typically will label like women as being crazy for this, but they have no idea about the ticking clock. Guys never have to worry about this. If guys worry about this, they would

[Susan]

be so no population.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah, right. That's true.

[Kathy]

But wait a second, it's. I got to take the, as I often do, Michael, take the opposite stance here. If she brings it up, that has the scent of ultimatum to me. And I don't think that ever works. So yeah, you can go and talk to him about it. But now once you do that, you know, once you say, look, I'm 28, the clock's ticking, you're really asking him to put a label on it. And I feel like if he doesn't bring up marriage. Maybe he just doesn't want to be married.

[Susan]

But you should have that conversation.

[Michael Alio]

I feel like it has to be a conversation because I feel like errors happen when the assumptions start getting made. And it doesn't have to be necessarily an ultimatum. But I think if she knows her partner as well as she should, after three years through a lighter line of questioning, she could probably get a hint as to how committed he really is.

[Kathy]

Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, when he says someday, I'm not, I'm not liking what I'm hearing someday.

[Susan]

But Emily, don't be afraid to talk to him in a nice calm. Just say, I just want to make sure this is what I'm thinking. Share what your thoughts and your wants are. Not necessarily asking him to push her or you know, walk or crawl here. This is what I want within this time frame. How do you feel about that and

[Kathy]

if that doesn't work. Right, Michael,

[Susan]

everybody.

[Michael Alio]

I'm glad I'm out of the dating world. Right?

[Kathy]

Thanks a lot, Michael. We're loving hearing that. Okay, this next one is from Jordan from Dallas. Hey girls. I recently started dating a guy I really like but he has a 6 year old daughter. I'm 28 and don't have kids and I'm terrified of messing this up. When is the right time to become part of a child's life without overstepping? You'll have the answer to that one, Michael.

[Susan]

Go baby.

[Michael Alio]

Wow, Jordan's got hands full there. I so I truthfully believe that we build up and we always look at these worst case scenarios versus just bringing things up calmly and having just real down to earth authentic conversation. So I would, if I was in Jordan's position, have a conversation with the child's parent and say what makes you comfortable? Let's work on messaging. How can I spend more time with the 6 year old as just us two? Because one of the things is, is when you're all three together as a group, usually the child feels kind of in the middle and is pulling for attention and there's no room for the two people that need to make the biggest connection to really connect. So one on one time with the child so that they understand that this person that's coming into their house is an additional, not a threat.

[Kathy]

Oh, that's a great answer.

[Susan]

Very well said.

[Kathy]

Nothing to add to that. That's actually a great answer.

[Susan]

Thanks Jordan. We wish you luck.

[Michael Alio]

I hope it all works out because I've experienced that.

[Kathy]

Yes, you have.

[Susan]

Okay, we have one more and this is from Samantha from Boston. My fiance and I have always split everything right down the middle and it's worked really well for us. But I recently got a huge promotion and now I make almost twice what he does. I can tell it's affected his confidence. Even though he insists he's happy for me. He used to insist on paying for date nights, but now he'll make comments like, I guess you can cover this one. They're jokes, but they don't really feel like jokes. Not sure sure how to handle this.

[Kathy]

I'd send them on the freedom trail.

[Susan]

I'd be like, no, babe, I got it. I'm going to pay for vacation this year.

[Popsicle Sponsor/Host]

Right?

[Michael Alio]

You get a car. You get a car.

[Susan]

Yeah, I want a house.

[Michael Alio]

No, yeah, right. You know, I, I, this is, this is a tricky one because I will, I will just speak for myself. Like I, I, I was just raised in that old school way. I mean, where we pay for open doors, we pay for things. And I, and, but, but by no means is that caught up in my own identity. I do that because it's a love language of mine. Like, I like to provide, I like to work hard and let other people enjoy it. And so, I mean, I guess she probably needs to figure out, is he really offended? And that's probably going to be a difficult answer to truly get because he will say no, because he's probably embarrassed by the fact that he does feel less because he's not being able to, to match her and her progress. But it's not a reflection of them too, as a relationship. It's, it's just money. And that's just one of a million other things that people can provide in a relationship.

[Kathy]

Yeah, I think I, I think when he says, I guess you can cover this one. I think that the mistake here is, like you've said on these other questions, Michael, she needs to have the conversation with him about, have that financial conversation, because money is, it can be a problem in relationships. Right. So have the conversation with him. I know I'm earning a lot more. How do you feel about this? Is there a way that we can make it more equitable that you'll feel better, but not saying anything?

[Michael Alio]

I would go with this. If you're around the house and you see laundry and dishes, you say to him, I guess you can handle this one.

[Susan]

And if you make the money, you do the laundry.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah, right. And we'll put you on allowance, pal.

[Kathy]

That's right. And if you don't like either of those options, head for the freedom trail.

[Klarna Sponsor/Host]

Yeah.

[Michael Alio]

Exactly.

[Susan]

But they are engaged. They're engaged. And I think they should sit down and she say, babe, I'm gonna put X amount of dollars so we can get our first house. You don't have to worry about that. We're doing this together. And if I'm making that much more, I'm gonna put this aside so it's not that hard coming out of your pocket too. Like, you're a team. You're gonna get married. So that can be worked out. I wouldn't stress.

[Kathy]

I will say, Susan, it's very different now. I have kids your age, Michael, and they do finances differently than we did. They, you know, they have his account, her account, a house account. So there. And the reason they do that is so when my daughter, who I don't know where she came from, Amazon, you know, has a straight shot to her house at least twice a day, that. But she's using that out of her discretionary income. And so there's no discussion about you're spending too much money because they put in equal amounts to the home, to the running of the home, to investments. I think that's a smart thing to do.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, we have everything just going into one pot. So I'm, I'm gonna pitch that idea to Jeff. Yeah.

[Kathy]

When I got married, Susan, I think you and I've talked about this. When we got married, you know, I earned hardly anything in those days, but we put all our money together and we shared the chores and we shared the. I did most of the cooking at that time, I'm saying. But it was one pot of money. But there were times when, you know, there was something I wanted that if I had had my own quote unquote pot of money, I could have said, you know, yeah, I get it. You don't want to spend the money on it. But I've earned this money. This is my play money, my spending money. And I think, you know, that's a good solution sometimes.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah.

[Susan]

But I wouldn't give up hope, Samantha. I wouldn't have a conversation. Make them feel better.

[Kathy]

Yeah, actually, I gotta find the guy first who wants to split the bills, and then we'll. That's just a deep. That is just a detail. Anyway, you can submit all your questions, burning or otherwise, to us by going to bachelornation.com golden hour, come back, see if we answer yours. Maybe we'll have Michael back again because he certainly had all the right answers here.

[Michael Alio]

Oh, geez, I don't know about that.

[Susan]

All right, Michael, we have a good One for you. This is our dating edition. So this week we're going to play a game where we're going to give Michael a sentence about dating and he has to finish it. So I'm just. We're going to just read it off and boom. Whatever comes to mind. Don't overthink it. Okay.

[Kathy]

Jeopardy. Real fast.

[Michael Alio]

Okay.

[Susan]

The biggest green flag is consistency.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

Oh, good one.

[Kathy]

If they text back instantly, I love them.

[Susan]

Me too. I know a relationship is over when

[Michael Alio]

we don't laugh anymore.

[Kathy]

Wait, I need to write down his answer. Susan, the most overrated dating advice is.

[Michael Alio]

That it's that the more extravagant it is, the better.

[Susan]

Okay. A first date should always.

[Michael Alio]

Oh, geez,

[Susan]

you're doing good.

[Michael Alio]

First. The first date should always be planned by the guy.

[Susan]

Love you.

[Kathy]

Oh my God.

[Susan]

Jade. Really love you, Jade.

[Kathy]

We love you, Jade. Hold on to this one.

[Susan]

Okay.

[Kathy]

The quickest way to ruin a date is

[Michael Alio]

talk about yourself the whole time.

[Susan]

Very good. If they still have this in their apartment, I'm out.

[Michael Alio]

That could be a lot of things I would say Pictures of exes.

[Kathy]

I. That's what I was gonna say.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Love is

[Michael Alio]

unconditional.

[Kathy]

A situationship is just.

[Michael Alio]

I would. I know I got answer quickly. I would say is just figuring it out.

[Susan]

Okay.

[Michael Alio]

You know the reason. The reason why? Like some. I've seen situationships that have developed and I've also seen them that flopped. So I maintain situationships sometimes. But.

[Susan]

Okay. The biggest relationship ick is.

[Michael Alio]

Biggest relationship ick is lying.

[Kathy]

Oh, that's not an ick, Susan. I used to play a game. What was it? Something ick and ooh. And then the. The worst one was like kick them to the curb line.

[Susan]

They were all kicked to the curb line.

[Kathy]

Line. They're out for me.

[Michael Alio]

Okay, so. So an ick. Ick is something that just is like a turn off.

[Kathy]

Yes, Yes.

[Michael Alio]

I. I really have to say there's few things I'm really turned off by. Like.

[Susan]

Like a dirty house would do it for me. Like if you weren't.

[Kathy]

No, no, wait, wait. Susan, a crumb. Wait with Susan. A crumb on the counter.

[Susan]

Is it.

[Kathy]

No, let's me.

[Mandy Woodruff Santos]

Are you.

[Michael Alio]

Are you a neat freak, Susan?

[Susan]

Yes. Yes, I am. But I can put up with some things. But people that don't keep their bathroom, like that's hygiene to me. That would be a huge ick. I don't even think I could come back.

[Michael Alio]

Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. I fall into this naive space all the time where I think people can learn and adapt. But I have I have been wrong about that so many times.

[Kathy]

All right. If my best friend dated my ex, I would.

[Michael Alio]

Oh, not like it.

[Susan]

I want my ex to date Nancy.

[Kathy]

Yeah, Nancy's. Nancy's from our season on the Golden Bachelor, and I. She's been trying.

[Susan]

Great pair. I really do.

[Kathy]

Susan is very good friends.

[Michael Alio]

I think it depends on how far are you removed from that ex. If you're fresh off the breakup and you're fresh, that's. That's a problem. If you're happy and everything's settled, then, yeah, good luck.

[Kathy]

Wow. I'm surprised most women will say to you that, you know, that their girlfriends could never date their ex. I'm like, have at it. You know, I'm done with them. Good luck to you.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Right?

[Michael Alio]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Susan]

It's her way with words.

[Popsicle Sponsor/Host]

All right.

[Kathy]

Okay. Well, I don't. Michael, I don't know. Is there any other great last pearl of wisdom that you or any questions you have for Susan and me?

[Michael Alio]

I really enjoy you guys, and I was telling Kathy on the last podcast that we did, I love seeing the Goldens, and I think it's such a good take to really show people that have experienced life that really come at it from a different, mature level. And you guys were so entertaining to watch. So thank you.

[Susan]

Thank you.

[Michael Alio]

The authenticity's there. The love's there. I got nothing but for you guys,

[Susan]

and I just handle it different. When you're older, I think, you know, you do.

[Michael Alio]

You don't create your own problems.

[Klarna Sponsor/Host]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

You real. And again, you realize, you know, life is short and the little stuff just doesn't matter. And a lot of the big stuff doesn't matter.

[Michael Alio]

Nothing matters.

[Susan]

Admire you, Michael. I can't wait to read your book, say, one more time where they could get it. And the title, if you will, please.

[Michael Alio]

The Wild Heart right here. Just happen to have a copy. Get it at the wildheart grows.com and presale is officially done and orders will be shipped out next week.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Yay.

[Kathy]

I wish I'd asked you to sign mine for me, but that's. I'll have to meet you in person so I can get it done.

[Michael Alio]

I'll try to find a way to get one to you.

[Kathy]

Oh, you are so kind. Well, thank you, Michael. I truly mean this. Thank you so much for joining us on Bachelor Golden Hour. Where can our listeners follow you beside from ordering your book? How can they follow you?

[Michael Alio]

Oh, you can follow me on Instagram. It's Michael Alio L4 on Instagram, and I'm almost never on TikTok or anything, so don't even follow me on that. I honestly didn't think I'd even have social media until after I got off the show. Likewise, of course. I mean, I didn't have Facebook until like my junior year of college. So. Yeah, this, this whole thing's new to me. Yeah, come check me out. Or don't. Whatever you guys want to do.

[Susan]

And thank you. And make sure to rate us, review us, and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Kathy]

And you can follow us on social media at Bachelor Happy Hour and Bachelor Nation. Until next week.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

Hope you have a great week.

[Susan]

See you then. Thank you, Michael.

[Michael Alio]

Bye.

[Dietz and Watson Sponsor/Host]

I just received my order from Dietz and Watson. I am so excited. I got chicken, sausages and flavored cheddar cheeses. I think my favorite one was the champagne cheddar. Dietz and Watson has been handcrafting premium meats and artisan cheeses for over 85 years. They're family owned, owned and operated and they've never cut corners. Ever. Dietz Watson is simply made. It's as simple as that. Visit dietzandwatson.com the right way to learn more about the Deets Difference Charity I

[Klarna Sponsor/Host]

was thinking about this the other day. What's something that you'll always say yes to?

That's easy. Seeing my friends last minute girls trip. Basically making memories you'll talk about for years.

Same. And somehow every one of these memories comes with something to plan.

That's so true.

That's why Klarna stands out. It's about smarter tools that help you manage your money without taking away from the moments that matter.

Exactly. With flexible ways to pay cash back that builds automatically and everything in one place. Klarna helps you feel more confident making everyday money decisions.

Because when you have the right tools, everything feels more manageable.

Download the Klarna app today or visit klarna.com to learn more.

California Resident Loans made or arranged pursuant to California Finance Law License NLS Number 1353-190-klarna-balance account required to be eligible for cashback points. Limitations, terms and conditions apply.

[Mandy Woodruff Santos]

This is Mandy Woodruff Santos from Brown Ambition. When you think about discovering small brands, what store pops into your mind? Well, it should be Walmart. Seriously. Walmart has thousands of small brands and they're all in one place. Just go online or in store, discover and shop. It could not be easier. Every one of these brands has a real story and real people behind it. They're true American success stories and you can find them all at Walmart Discover thousands of small [e-mail] today.

[Klarna Sponsor/Host]

Can I come clean about something? I am definitely not someone who likes doing laundry. Yeah, I don't think there is anyone who does. Whether you put your stinky gym clothes in with your delicates, forgot a load of clothes in the washer for a few days, or haven't washed your favorite jeans in far too long, you're not a lynch. Luckily, Arm and Hammer Deep Clean is here to help. Arm and Hammer Deep Clean is the powerful shortcut that forgives your own shortcuts. It's made for real life stinking stains. Because it's just laundry, you shouldn't stress over it and now you don't have to. From the number one liquid detergent brand that tackles more loads than any other. Come clean with Arm and Hammer Deep Clean number one claim based on total wash loads sold. Quick pause for reef because your feet deserve better. You know them for sandals, but the Woman's Neptune is that effortless sneaker you didn't know know you were missing. For me, I'm always on the go. Whether I'm running around the city, catching the subway, running through airports, trying to catch my next flight, or just trying to get through a long day comfortably, these Reef Neptune shoes have genuinely become my everyday go to. They're lightweight, super comfortable and extremely versatile, making it easy to style with literally anything. I love that I can slip them on, head out the door and know that my feet are taken care of all day. If you're looking for a shoe that keeps up with real life, these are it. Check out the Woman's Neptune on reef.com and treat yourself to 15% off your first purchase.

[Mandy Woodruff Santos]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Susan]

Guaranteed human.