‘The Women Tell All’ Post-Game | Golden Hour

Summary

Bachelor Happy Hour: ‘The Women Tell All’ Post-Game | Golden Hour

Date: November 3, 2025
Hosts: Kathy & Susan (Bachelor Nation Golden Hour OGs)
Podcast: Bachelor Happy Hour by iHeartPodcasts & Warner Bros.

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Overview

In this episode, Kathy and Susan provide an in-depth, behind-the-scenes post-game breakdown of the “Women Tell All” episode from the latest season of The Golden Bachelor. Listeners get first-hand impressions as both hosts attended the taping in person. The conversation covers audience dynamics, cast confrontations, moments of vulnerability, and the meaning and fallout of several memorable exchanges.

With signature warmth, humor, and Golden Bachelor wisdom, Kathy and Susan reflect on cast drama (centered on Nicole), emotional reckonings (Debbie’s candid moments), the power of self-awareness, and how the women—and the show—handled tough topics with class. They also compare this season’s “Women Tell All” to their own, and dish about the final two contenders headed for overnights.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Girls’ Weekend in Austin & Life as Former Contestants

Timestamps: 03:06–05:47

• Recap of hosts’ girls’ weekend with Nancy, Joan, and Elena Doll Baby in Austin: Boat rides, iconic lunch at Ski Shores, and fans recognizing the group.
• Funny Story: Kathy describes a lighthearted encounter at the bar, suspecting a “swinger proposition”—"I said I was just propositioned by a swinger." (Kathy, 05:10)
• Camaraderie: The deep, ongoing bonds with fellow contestants and production staff are highlighted.

  “I don't think people appreciate how close you get, not just with the cast members, but the producers and everyone involved with the show.” (Kathy, 06:35)

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“Women Tell All” – Audience Impressions and Nicole’s Confrontation

Timestamps: 06:06–12:30

• Hosts’ anticipation: Both expect Nicole to face serious scrutiny due to her on-show behavior and “influencer” ambitions.
• Susan on Nicole:

  “The main thing for me was Nicole heard and let people speak, but never took ownership.” (Susan, 08:57)

• On Accountability: Susan and Kathy dissect the difference between hearing criticism and genuinely apologizing or growing from it.

  “I said, no, no, no. That is just saying I hear you. There's no apology there. There's no understanding of doing something wrong.” (Kathy, 09:25)

• Nicole’s lack of self-awareness: Multiple women call this out as a deeper issue.
• Memorable moment: Lemon bar credit “theft” becomes a sticking point in Nicole’s narrative.

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Debbie’s Emotional “Hot Seat” and Age/Marital Status

Timestamps: 18:22–22:30

• Debbie confronts Mel about her elimination: She candidly asks if her age (65) or never being married was the reason.

  “She wanted her moment with Mel and said, did you send me home because I was 65? No. Or because I've never been married? No, he said. I never thought about that…” (Kathy & Susan, 18:52-18:59)

• Self-worth and healing: Debbie’s past, including losing her boyfriend to suicide 10 years prior, factors into her sense of self and vulnerability on national TV.

  “But she's not letting go. She needs to let that go and put it behind her. And I hope that she doesn't give up because of this.” (Susan, 19:07)

• Kathy’s personal resonance: Her own life experience adds empathy to Debbie’s situation.
• Empowerment: The hosts want the show to dispel the idea that “never married” or “older” is a romantic “red flag.”

  “I don't want women going around thinking, I'm too old at 65 to find love. I've never been married. What man would want me?” (Kathy, 28:00)

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Carol’s Perspective & Lighter Moments

Timestamps: 22:30–24:34

• Carol defends Nicole:

  “I guess it took real courage on the show for Carol to go, no, wait a minute…” (Kathy, 22:31)

• House dynamics: Early-show friendships and moments of fun called out, particularly surrounding Nicole.
• Blooper highlights: Susan does a Carol impression, and they recall the group’s infectious laughter during the blooper reel.

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Cheryl in the Hot Seat & The Difficulty of “Why Not Me?”

Timestamps: 24:34–28:00

• Cheryl’s family surprises her on set: Emotional moment highlighting family support.
• Questions for Mel: Difficulty in expecting thoughtful answers from the lead as to why someone isn’t chosen.
• Hosts’ take:

  “I would never ask a man why he didn't pick me ever. It would never come out of my mouth.” (Kathy, 26:13)

• Message for listeners: Not getting picked is not necessarily about age or marital history—sometimes it’s just about connection.

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The “Red Flag” Debate: Never Married and Older

Timestamps: 28:20–29:05

• Discussion on societal assumptions: Is it a concern to have never married or not had children? Both hosts stress it’s a case-by-case issue, not a universal red flag.
• Kathy shares personal experience: Relates to challenges of dating men who’ve never been married.

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Humor & Sex Positivity: Mile High Club, Vibrator Saga, and Candidness

Timestamps: 29:05–32:26; 48:15–48:45

• Fun stories: Group laugh over Jerry and the Mile High Club; Peg’s confusion over a vibrator during a group date.

  “Remember Peg with the vibrator? She didn’t know what it was and goes, what is this?… No, I do not [believe she didn’t know].” (Susan & Kathy, 48:15)

• Hosts praise: The women’s frankness, openness, and sense of fun this season.

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Comparing “Women Tell All” Seasons

Timestamps: 32:26–35:11

• Contrast with their own season:

  “The women from our show that were chosen by Gary tended to be quite long winded…and Gary…had a lot more to say than Mel did.” (Kathy, 30:33)

• Drama tone: Less overall drama this season, Nicole being the main exception.

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Mel’s Final Three and Lead Dynamics

Timestamps: 35:51–46:45

• Hosts weigh in on Mel’s emotionally reserved style:

  “Mel did. He held his in.” (Susan, 32:20)

• Suspense for overnights (“Fantasy Suites”): Both excited and curious how Mel’s deeper connections—in particular with Peg and Cindy—will shake out.

  “They are so different. So now we're down to those two. And I think that's why I'm so excited to see how this goes, because they're so different.” (Kathy, 41:55)

• Themes in Mel’s toast: Adventure, fun, and connection.
• Uncertainty ahead: Can Mel really open up? Will he pick one, both, or neither?
• Bubble of the show: The hosts discuss how the “Bachelor bubble” affects emotional decisions, and how real life awaits post-show.

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The Future: Debbie as Golden Bachelorette?

Timestamps: 46:45–47:55

• Hosts root for Debbie: Suggest she’d be a fantastic next Golden Bachelorette given her never-married status and compelling story.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I said, okay, hell just froze over. ...I was just propositioned by a swinger."
  – Kathy, on her Austin weekend (05:10)

• "Nicole heard and let people speak, but never took ownership."
  – Susan on Nicole at the Tell All (08:57)

• "I don't want women going around thinking, I'm too old at 65 to find love. I've never been married. What man would want me?"
  – Kathy on age/marital status (28:00)

• "He can't make up his mind. And so I think this is...this is going to be big. The overnights, the fantasy suites, you know, if...if they have. I don't know what he's going to do."
  – Susan, on Mel’s indecision (42:53)

• "I would love to see Debbie be a...bats Golden Bachelorette and find the man. Susan, wouldn't that be nice?"
  – Kathy (46:45)

• "Remember Peg with the vibrator? She didn’t know what it was. ...I do not [believe that]."
  – Susan & Kathy (48:15)

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Episode Timeline

• [03:06–05:47] – Hosts bond over girls’ weekend anecdotes and fan interactions in Austin.
• [06:06–12:30] – Live impressions from “Women Tell All” taping; Nicole’s controversy.
• [18:22–22:30] – Debbie’s raw moment with Mel on age and never marrying; discussion of past trauma.
• [22:30–24:34] – Carol’s surprising defense of Nicole, group laughter at bloopers.
• [24:34–28:00] – Cheryl’s family surprise, “why not me?” questions.
• [28:20–29:05] – Red flag debate about dating experience and compromise.
• [29:05–32:26] – Light moments: Mile High Club anecdotes.
• [35:51–46:45] – Analysis of Mel’s style, final three, overnights and show “bubble.”
• [46:45–47:55] – The future: Could Debbie be the Golden Bachelorette?
• [48:15–48:45] – Peg/vibrator story and pillow fight flashbacks.

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

Playful, candid, and packed with firsthand insight, Kathy and Susan offer an episode rich in warmth and wisdom. From their humorous, self-deprecating reflections on dating and aging, to their emotionally intelligent breakdown of “Women Tell All” drama, the episode is a treat for Bachelor fans seeking both fun and depth.

Key Takeaway: While drama and vulnerability remain central to the Women Tell All experience, this Golden Bachelor edition showcased growth, support, and a level of self-awareness and humor that both hosts hope will inspire women inside and outside Bachelor Nation.

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Next week: All eyes (and hearts) on the Fantasy Suites—and Mel’s final choice.

Transcript

[Susan]

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[Katie Couric]

On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders. We've talked many times over the years, and today he even throws a few questions my way.

[Kathy]

All right, are you ready for another question? Go ahead, hit me, Bernie.

[Katie Couric]

We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and of course, the government shutdown. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Kathy]

Storm in a sewer.

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That was dumb.

[Kathy]

Do not follow my example.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

Listen to Crimeless Hillbilly Heist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Katie Couric]

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[Susan]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Kathy]

Welcome back to Bachelor. Happy Hours Golden Hour. Thanks for joining us. We are so excited to be back today.

[Susan]

We absolutely are. And thank you guys for coming back and listening and we are going to talk about a really very special episode that we actually got to be in the audience audience for. And we're going to talk all about the women tell all. But before that, can I just have Kathy share? So we had a girls weekend here in Austin at Kathy's house. And Nancy and Joan from our season were also here yesterday. Kathy's good friend who I've met before, Elena Doll Baby took us out on the lake in her awesome boat. We stopped for lunch.

[Kathy]

Okay, so let me. We stopped for lunch at a iconic Austin restaurant called Ski Shores. It's fabulous. We go in, we order drinks at the bar cause our table isn't ready. And people swarmed us for pictures. And it was just, it was a beautiful, sunny, cool day in Austin. Perfect for a trip on the boat. So everyone's talking, taking pictures and all of a sudden this guy behind me, I feel like he sort of taps me. And I said, I turned around and said hi. I said I'm really sorry, you know, we were on a show, blah blah bl. He goes oh no, it's fine, it's fine. Could I buy you a drink? Very good looking guy. And there's a woman sitting next to him. And I think to myself, oh wait, wait wait wait.

[Susan]

First Kathy gets big pretty eyes and a big smile on her face. Woo hoo. Somebody's trying to pick me up.

[Kathy]

Good looking guy. And so he said can I buy you a drink? And I see the woman but I think to myself, oh you know, she's just sitting, waiting for a table or whatever. But as I said, oh no thanks, we're about to sit down, da da da. And then he reaches over and puts his hand on his wife arm into saying we this and we that. And so I said listen, I'd love to chat but I have to go get with my crowd here. Rod Carew. We're about to sit down and I go over and I said okay, hell just froze over. And they said what? I said I was just propositioned by a swinger.

[Susan]

I think it's a swinger. And the whole conversation at lunch with all of us ladies were like, I think Nancy was most surprised. Not that she's never heard of it, but it's never happened that approach. Three to be approached. I mean it's happened a few times.

[Kathy]

Yeah, I was approached once in my late 20s before I had kids. But this one took Me so by. But I thought, oh, my God, it's. You know, I got a. I got a thing in a fortune cookie last week. It said, a new love is waiting for you right around the corner. I thought, oh, my God, Confucius is right. I. This is it. I've met my guy.

[Susan]

Yeah. It was priceless, guys. It was priceless.

[Kathy]

Anyway, we had a great weekend. It was just so much fun.

[Susan]

One thing Kathy said that I do not agree with, that I have to point it out. And I quote, it was such a cool fall day. It was not. It was hot. It was almost 80. Like, to me, that's hot. But it was a beautiful day.

[Kathy]

Those of us who live in Texas, in Austin, we know this was a beautiful fall day. Okay, so now we're going to get in. Let's get into the women tell all, because we were there, as you said, Susan. And we gotta start. We gotta start with Nicole.

[Susan]

First of all, wasn't it awesome going back again? All the people behind the scenes, and they all love us, and we love them, and just getting mic'd again and getting. You know, it was just like reminiscing.

[Kathy]

You know, I don't think people appreciate how close you get, not just with the cast members, but the producers and everyone involved with the show. So, yes, you're right.

[Susan]

It was the handlers. The Handlers. Like, ah, we're back.

[Kathy]

Great to see all those people. I mean, it's just fabulous. But we. These ladies walk in, they're dressed to kill. We sit down. Susan and I are sitting in, like, the second row back. And we looked at each other, was like, again, you wanted to cry, you wanted to be happy. Because we want to go back there. All right, we have to start with Nicole. We have to start. And let me remind everyone before we get started, Nicole started with, you know, the older women from the first season were much better. She wants to be an influencer. You know, she's there for all the wrong reasons. So Susan and I are sitting there going, oh, God. When Nicole walks in, we're sitting thinking, this girl is gonna roast. You know, the roast that Jared Freed did. We've seen nothing. This girl is gonna get fried on the seat.

[Susan]

And by the way, Jarrett was right across the aisle from us, too.

[Kathy]

Great to see him.

[Susan]

It was a shame because Terry, I think, began. And Terry, very well spoken, if I will, if you will. She didn't realize because she started with Nicole was so much fun on the show. And she cooked, she did everybody's makeup. She was very. Everybody was Very positive. And then she paused and said, until I watched it back and she saw other parts and she was not happy.

[Kathy]

And you and I have talked about this, that when you watch something back when you're in the show, you only know what was surrounding you, what you saw, what you questions you answered, what your experiences were. So when they watched it back, I mean they were, they were not happy.

[Susan]

What we saw, Kathy, they saw what we saw.

[Kathy]

But interestingly so, Nicole, you know, is an interesting woman because when she started wailing and you saw it on, on.

[Susan]

The women's home, that was like crime.

[Kathy]

I know, but still to me it doesn't matter the order, her crying to Mel and saying, we, I had, we.

[Susan]

Had real feelings for each other, special connection. What like I did not see, I mean she was sexy and sucked his face a lot, you know, that that was a connection to her. Oh, so be it.

[Kathy]

Literally it was connected.

[Susan]

But I think the tears actually came from because it was like the second half because a lot of people addressed her and it was all negatives. The main thing for me was Nicole heard and let people speak, but never took ownership. So you never, never acknowledged the fact that, wow, I didn't realize I was coming off like that. I apologize or whatever.

[Kathy]

So you and I sitting next to each other, we talked about. She, Nicole said to Terry, I hear you, I hear what you're saying, I hear well. And you looked at me, you said, well good. She's acknowledging. I said, no, no, no. That is just saying I hear you. There's no apology there. There's no understanding of doing something wrong. Right, Correct.

[Susan]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Okay. So.

[Susan]

Well, as well as when I got to speak to her and expected a full blown apology, I thought she should apologize to the world. Like when she was dating the world. You remember that statement during the show? Then I'll apologize to the world for saying that the women on our show weren't that attractive, all that good looking or whatever the words were. One on one. I had a conversation. You know me, Kath, I wasn't letting that go. And I thought, okay, you're going to redeem yourself next half of the show. And that's when Debbie lit up and started sharing how Debbie felt about what she did. That's when she got to speak to Mel, that's when the tears started. So I mean, who are we to judge? But what does everybody think? Was it because all these women said these things to you and now you get to talk to him and that's where the tears came?

[Kathy]

I, I think, well, I think, I think the tears came from that. I also think she really delusion a little bit delusional that she and Mel had a connection other than the making out. I don't think she and Mel had a connection. But I do feel sorry for anybody that feels attacked by a group of people. And I understand the women's tell all is where you get it out. Like that was these women's opportunity to tell everybody how they felt. And boy, they did not hold back when Nicole.

[Susan]

But they did it with such class. The way Terry spoke. Yes, I thought, wow, I'm impressed. I wanted to learn from that because when I get hot under the collar, I'm going to let you know how I feel. You know, I am always aware of somebody else's feelings.

[Kathy]

True.

[Susan]

But I thought they did a good job. I don't think they were hollering and screaming at or.

[Kathy]

No, I think they were honest. But I think this just me. I think that Nicole is not very self aware and I heard a couple of the women saying that she's just not self aware. I don't think Nicole is self aware. And I think at the women's tell all these women took the opportunity to say to her, you were making out with them. You were doing this, you were doing that, you took. Oh, do you remember when they talked about her taking credit for the lemon bars? Lemon bars. And she's like, well I did. Clearly she didn't because we saw the other women making it. So I feel sorry for Nicole but at the same time it's a lesson ladies to all of us in being self aware, which God knows I could use some of. But I really thought that that was interesting that they sort of went at her and I think that upset her. You're right.

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[Susan]

Every now and then I rinse it out and I deep down tonight and I needed more My kids were so bad and the smell never leaves I don't know what to do I'm always in the dark the sweat and dance sure smells like a dark.

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Downy rinse.

[Kathy]

Fights stubborn odors in just one wash.

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When impossible odors get stuck in.

[Katie Couric]

On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders, who is 84 years old, has spent 34 years in Congress and he can still pack a rally with people a quarter of his age.

[Susan]

Denver, 34,000 people come out. Salt Lake City, 20,000 people.

[Kathy]

You know, huge turnouts. People are really dissatisfied about the status quo.

[Katie Couric]

His Fighting Oligarchy tour with AOC and other young progressives has become a movement. But is his message too far to the left? Well, he certainly doesn't think so.

[Susan]

Does that sound like a radical idea, Judy? Is that too far left for you?

[Katie Couric]

Okay, okay, wait.

[Susan]

I get your point, Bernie.

[Katie Couric]

We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living and of course the government shutdown. Not to mention the current state of the Democratic Party.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

To me, the failure of the Democratic.

[Kathy]

Party has been an unwillingness to recognize the real issues.

[Katie Couric]

Open your free iHeartRadio app search next Question with Katie Couric. And listen, now.

[Susan]

All I know is what I've been told and that's a half truth is a whole lie.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Susan]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

I did not know her and I.

[Kathy]

Did not kill her or rape or.

[Susan]

Burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

From Lava For Good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Susan]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava For Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

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[Kathy]

The monster was exploding, yet on the.

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[Kathy]

I thought the most interesting part of the entire show was when Debbie talked to Mel. I have to say Debbie is for anybody who doesn't Remember, Debbie is 65, has never been married, had a very successful career, was sent home after hometowns devastated, and she wanted her moment with Mel and said, did you send me home because I was 65? No.

[Susan]

Or because I've never been married?

[Kathy]

Or because I've never been married? No, he said. I never thought about that and I love. I love.

[Susan]

That was beautiful.

[Kathy]

Yeah, it really was. But what did you feel about her having to even ask that?

[Susan]

Because I think Debbie feels that way and that's something that is one of her issues. She'll always feel like that. She'll always think somebody thinks I'm a red flag because I never said I do. However, during her time with Mel, she shared about the boyfriend and what had happened and that was big for her. That was heavy. Personally hearing it, it brought tears to my eyes. But in the same breath she's not letting go. She needs to let that go and put it behind her. It is not her fault. And I know it's easy for me to say, but she's got to pick up and move on. And what I saw that she's recovering now, you know, over the. The letdown that she was let go. She was very poised on the show. She was emotional. She was beautiful. But she said she's open now and I hope that she doesn't give up because of this. It reminded me of Leslie, if you will, Kathy, that Leslie always said, oh, what, nobody picks me or you know, I felt sorry for Leslie then. And that stays with Leslie because she still says certain things that make you think that. I hope Debbie really has a clean slate and lets that go because she's a beautiful person.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

But.

[Kathy]

But to be fair, on the women's tell all when, when she's. You're right, she needs to let it go. But when you ask on national tv, you know, is it my age? Is it the fact I've never been married? Is the fact I've never had children she wants. That's part of who she is? Right.

[Susan]

Yeah. I would want to know.

[Kathy]

Yeah. And I also think and we. You and I have talked about this for Deb on the tell all. And to be fair, Debbie and I talked about this off camera. Her boyfriend who. Who died by suicide. So she and I have that in common. And I think that messes with your brain too, you know.

[Susan]

And she's car. How many years?

[Kathy]

10. 10.

[Susan]

That's what I'm saying. It's 10 years. You're never going to forget it. But don't let it be up front in your life.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

Let it go.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

Because it wasn't your fault. And that's something I'll never understand. Kathy, you might be able to describe that pain.

[Kathy]

Well, I think it's hard. You never let it go completely and blame yourself. You always. There's always a part of you that even though you go through therapy and Debbie and I talked about this, you know, so I. You feel like what could I have done differently? Could I have saved him? How could I have saved him? So I think that is going to impact Debbie. But yay, Debbie. I was proud of her for bringing that up with Mel. And I think she and Mel did have a very strong connection and he even said it. Yeah.

[Susan]

She touched his heart.

[Kathy]

Okay, we got wait.

[Susan]

How about her family and throwing chicken on the grill? They were like real down home, warm, happy. Her twin sister like.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

I mean it was it her brothers.

[Kathy]

It just gives you insight. I mean, you and I never made it to hometowns, but that certainly gives you insight into how you get so involved with this person. And then at the tell all, you really want answers. Debbie really wanted answers because she really thought she was going further. So she. And she is a lovely person. Okay, we gotta also talk about party.

[Susan]

Oh, wait, Carol.

[Kathy]

We gotta talk about Carol on the hot seat. Because two things about Carol, Carol. And I was stunned. You can talk about the bloopers. I want to talk about Carol defending Nicole. I was kind of surprised. I don't know why, but I guess it took real courage on the show for Carol to go, no, wait a minute, wait a minute. When everybody, including you and me, were like, what are you talking about? We're season one. We're fabulous women. I didn't mean that. I didn't mean that. Taking the thing on the lemon bars, all of it. Carol came to her defense.

[Susan]

But wasn't that early on in the show? But after Terry got on her, I think that's when Carol spoke up. And then later Debbie let out.

[Kathy]

Yeah. So, yeah, I think it was just a lot.

[Susan]

I think Carol was defending the fact that they did have fun with Nicole.

[Kathy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Susan]

She was cool in the house.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

You know, she cooked and she made jokes or whatever. She was fun.

[Kathy]

And I gotta say, Susan loves if you all watch the show. When the bloopers came on, Susan's dying, laughing, watching Carol do your imitation. Great invitation. Okay.

[Susan]

She does it all the time. And. And you know what? I. She doesn't appear when you look at Carol. She's fun. That smile, that blonde hair. You never for one second think that woman was shy.

[Kathy]

No, but do you remember when she said to Mel, he's asking questions? She goes, well, you're very good looking. Yes. He said, I think we've established that. Yes. And you're so handsome. Like she was such a wreck she could not talk.

[Susan]

And then I'm supposed kiss you.

[Kathy]

Carol's. Carol's. You could. Carol has a great personality. Okay. The other one in the hot seat, Cheryl. So you and I were sitting, we met Cheryl's son and her grandchildren, daughter in law and her grandkids in the hotel. And they're like, don't tell, don't tell her. She doesn't know we're here. So. What a great surprise.

[Susan]

Oh, my gosh. And her back was to us, like when she was sitting with Jesse up on the stage and they were all like getting excited because they knew they were going to say something they were beautiful, weren't they? They were great kids in there to support.

[Kathy]

So what did you think about Cheryl's questions?

[Susan]

Her face though, when she saw them? I think she's a good soul. She's fun, she's active, she's. She's a good catch. She is a good catch. And I really saw them connect. But like we've said on every episode, it's about connection and then you have to narrow it down and the one that gives you the most inside, that's who you have choose.

[Kathy]

So do you remember though, her. I can't remember the exact question she asked Mel and the princess date, but she asked him, she wanted to know. And he. Again, I was struggling with Mel not being able to give an articulate, direct answer to her. And I think she was disappointed in that. I was really hoping Mel was going to come out, you know, because past the show, the show is in the can. We don't know yet if he's engaged, who he's with, but we know it's over. Right. So I was kind of waiting. I was hoping that Mel was going to give more at this tell all.

[Susan]

And you know, Kathy, we've talked about this as well. I always try to put myself in the lead's shoe. And when someone asks me, say someone asked you, Kathy, why didn't you pick.

[Kathy]

Pick me?

[Susan]

Could you be articulate?

[Kathy]

Okay, I'm about to say something that I'm surprised do. You know, Susan, this just happened to me recently. We're not going to go into detail. I would never ask a man why he didn't pick me ever. It would never come out of my mouth.

[Susan]

But I'm not. That's not what I said. If you were the one choosing, you were the lead and one of the men asked me at the end, why not me? You know, articulate.

[Kathy]

I think, okay, you got me on the spot here. I think if someone asked me that, I would say, you know, it was such a hurried. There were so many men, in my case, so many men. I did my best to know you, to get to know you, but I felt a stronger connection for other men. And I'd leave it at that. That's what I'd leave it at.

[Susan]

So what Mel didn't say and wasn't articulate. It wasn't like he could say, well, it's because of, you know, your left thigh does this or when you smile. There is nothing you could say. Mel's does it through the whole show, show a ton of emotion and that. That I get. But to. Like Debbie, for instance, actually said, was it because I was never married? Of course he answered that question, but he didn't.

[Kathy]

He didn't give her a lot of assurance. He said, no.

[Susan]

No. I mean, no, I know. I. That that's a whole nother podcast, but.

[Kathy]

Right.

[Susan]

But Cheryl, I don't know what he. She just wasn't the one. She made it through the whole time until that point. And yes, you're right. You walk away going, what could I have done differently? Nothing.

[Kathy]

Suzanne, would you ask that question? Would you.

[Susan]

No, Absolutely not.

[Kathy]

You know what? I wouldn't. I'm being honest.

[Susan]

I wouldn't.

[Kathy]

As I've said, it happened to me. I don't care why. The fact is, you don't want me. You don't want me. In. In Debbie's case, though, I loved it for other women, that I don't want women going around thinking, I'm too old at 65 to find love. I've never been married. What man would want me?

[Susan]

I love Red flag. It's not. Although women. We've discussed this too. Women. When you meet somebody, oh, he's never been married, never had kids, that's a red flag.

[Kathy]

Well, I.

[Susan]

Isn't.

[Kathy]

Well, I took it.

[Susan]

Know how to share their family. And when you're married, you learn how to compromise. You know, how to give and take. And when you have children, even. Even more so, you know, you have to give up things to do for your children. When somebody hasn't had any of that experience, that's more difficult for them to adjust. You know, like they will feel maybe second choice or second in line to your children or your grandchildren. That's. You know what I mean? When somebody's had the same experience, it's easier to. To move on.

[Kathy]

Yeah. So I've had. And I've taken some heat because I said on another podcast that I had not been married, that I had dated a man who'd never been married. Sorry. And I would never do it again. It's precisely for what you're saying. I don't think. We don't know why, Mel. You know, Debbie's got a great figure. She's a successful businesswoman. She's kind. She's adorable. She has cute dimples. I mean, come on. But for me, I know why. It's exactly what you said. He didn't know how to compromise. He didn't know how to share because he'd always done everything for himself. And I think, Debbie, we never got that because, you know, they didn't get into that conversation. So I don't think it's necessarily a red flag. I think it's on a case by case basis. So I don't know. I think that. What about Jerry being in the Mile High Club? You were going there. I know it. I couldn't wait.

[Susan]

I couldn't wait. Our pillow fight, that was. Was so much fun that day. But when Jerry said that some of them were like, I would never. It's so small.

[Kathy]

And I thought the women on this show were. Were very honest though, on the tell all.

[Susan]

Open.

[Kathy]

Yeah, they were open and. And open for love. I guess we were.

[Susan]

Let's compare our women tell all to their women tell all. What do you think, if anything was different?

[Kathy]

Well, we had the women from our show that were chosen by Gary tended to be quite long winded, and Gary, you know, had a lot more to say than Mel did. So in that way, it was very different.

[Susan]

And Robyn asked Mel too. Didn't she ask him the question? Like, was it because I was the one that told you?

[Kathy]

Yes. And by the way, Susan.

[Susan]

Yes.

[Kathy]

I don't believe it. I think it always bites you in the ass if you're the one that goes and says, hey, this is going on. I've watched enough seasons.

[Susan]

You know, isn't that sad because you're trying to let somebody know something. She knew she wasn't in the running at that point. It didn't matter to her. And she didn't name drop. I thought she did it very classily.

[Kathy]

Classy. Yeah.

[Susan]

Thank you.

[Kathy]

I mean, it was the same thing when I went to Teresa on our show and. And it came up on the tell all. And I. Our tell all. I said to Teresa, hey, chill, girl. A little. Let. Let it go a little bit. Because there's several other women. And that didn't play well because, boy.

[Susan]

It went the best was when we were at our rose ceremony and she said, you said something about last night. Oh, he came up to my room. You're like, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

[Kathy]

That came out on our.

[Susan]

The girls on this season didn't have that.

[Kathy]

That. No. I think other than the drama with.

[Susan]

Nicole, Nicole was the only drama. Yeah.

[Kathy]

And, you know, I think. I don't know. I think it was different because Gary on our show, Gary Turner had so much emotion and so much for both shows. Yeah. And Mel did. So he.

[Susan]

He held his in. Yeah.

[Kathy]

Which is why I cannot. I. I gotta be honest. I am. We're not there. We got a few more things to talk about. But are you so morbidly. I'm excited about.

[Susan]

For the overnights.

[Kathy]

Yes, I am.

[Susan]

Well, we know who it's down to.

[Kathy]

I know, but I'm really like, of course. You know, unfortunately, we're not going to be in there because there's no cameras. But I am really curious if Melissa is going to be able to really open up.

[Susan]

Yeah. Yeah. And you got to consider this is his first real time really looking for his significant other since his divorce yet. Kathy, do you agree that women, when they're ready to move on, they put themselves out there, they want to find somebody. And I don't hold back like my feelings and I share what I'm. What I want to accomplish, what I want. I put it out to the universe and I'll share with my partner. Communication, one of our biggest things. Communication is key.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

When someone's not really 100% ready. And I admire the fact that you can protect yourself like that, but you're not giving the other person any incentive whatsoever. Do I just quit? I mean, this guy's numb.

[Kathy]

Yeah. Wait. I cannot even believe we've gotten this far into this episode. And we have not mentioned when the rose ceremony with the three women. God, Susan, when he ever said the three of you are beautiful. I started this at step, you know, this journey with this, this all. There's things. I'm paraphrasing. You all deserve a rose. There's. What he was saying in my mind was if he could aggregate the three of them, you know, blend them all together into one woman, which concerns where's AI?

[Susan]

Where's AI really, when we need them?

[Kathy]

Does that not concern you, though, that he said that? Like, I know that's if I didn't.

[Susan]

Take it like that. I took it like, each and every one of you deserve this rose because I love something about each and every one of you. But I felt as if all three of them made it through the whole thing. They're the three that really touched him the most. That's what he meant. And he was complimenting them before he let them down. I don't think all of you deserve this. You're all come. It's special in my heart. But only two of you are going to get a rose. I mean, what else do you do?

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[Susan]

There it is again.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

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[Katie Couric]

On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders, who is 84 years old, has spent 34 years in Congress and he can still pack a rally with people a quarter of his age.

[Susan]

Denver, 34,000 people come out. Salt Lake City, 20,000 people.

[Kathy]

You know, huge turnouts. People are really dissatisfied about the status quo.

[Katie Couric]

His Fighting Oligarchy tour with AOC and other young progressives has become a movement. But is his message too far to the left? Well, he certainly doesn't think so.

[Susan]

Does that sound like a radical idea, Katie? Is that too far left for you?

[Katie Couric]

Okay, okay, wait, wait.

[Susan]

I get your point, Bernie.

[Katie Couric]

We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and of course the government shutdown. Not to mention the current state of the Democratic party.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

To me, the failure of the Democratic.

[Kathy]

Party has been an unwillingness to recognize the real issues.

[Katie Couric]

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Next Question with Katie Couric. And listen now.

[Susan]

All I know is.

[Kathy]

What I've been told.

[Susan]

And that's a half truth is a whole lie.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Susan]

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

I did not know her and I.

[Kathy]

Did not kill her or rape or.

[Susan]

Burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

From Lava For Good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

[Susan]

America. Y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free, subscribe to Lava for Good. Plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Susan]

It's Anna Ortiz and I'm Mark and Delicato. You might know us as Hilda and Justin from Ugly Betty. We played mother and son on the show, but in real life we're best friends. And I'm all grown up now. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty. Can you believe it has been almost 20 years?

[Kathy]

That's not even possible.

[Susan]

You're the only one that looks that much different.

[Kathy]

I look exactly the same.

[Susan]

We're re watching the series from start.

[Kathy]

To finish and getting into all the fashions, the drama and the behind the.

[Susan]

Scenes moments that you, that you've never heard before.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

You're going to hear from guests like America Ferreira, Vanessa Williams, Michael Urie, Becky.

[Susan]

Newton, Tony Plana, and so many more icons. Each and every one, all of a sudden, like someone like comes running up to me and it's Salma Hayek. And she's like, you are my Ugly Betty. And I was like, what is she even talking about? Listen to Viva Betty. As part of the My Kultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kathy]

I think Teresa and Leslie on our show look somewhat like petite brunettes.

[Susan]

Yeah. The same guy.

[Kathy]

I mean, you know, Leslie's, you know, they have some differences.

[Susan]

They're tiny. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kathy]

But personalities, I would say, you know, Leslie's much more fun and outgoing and Teresa's, you know, into her protein shakes, but you know what I'm saying, they aren't that right much. But these two girls, Cindy and choking Hag. Cindy and Peg. No, Cindy and Peg are so different. So now we're down to those two. And I think that's why I'm so excited to see how this goes, because they're so different. They're so different.

[Susan]

I keep thinking of every toast at every single rose ceremony. What was the key common denominator in every rose?

[Kathy]

There were three things Mel said. Adventure, fun, and something else. But the most important one there is fun, fun, fun.

[Susan]

Which means, I thought Cindy had this the whole time. Now I'm feeling maybe Peg has it because she's fun. Not that Cindy isn't, but she's more serious. Things that she said the last time, and this really isn't part of women tell all. But some of the things that she said stuck in my. My gut there. Like, oh, she wants a man that's so excited for her, and he's not showing that because I don't know well that. Well, that's who he is.

[Kathy]

And that's what. When he was saying to the three of them, you know, I. I wish I could give you all rose, I really felt like he was saying, you know, like, oprah Winfrey, here's one for you. Here's one for you.

[Susan]

One for everybody.

[Kathy]

He can't make up his mind. And so I think this is.

[Susan]

This is going to be big. The overnights, the fantasy suites, you know, if. If they have. I don't know what he's going to do.

[Kathy]

I wonder if he'll do what Joan did and say, I'm not sleeping with these women. I'm going to guess that's not the way it's going to go.

[Susan]

But you know what? I also like that he's not telling each one of them that he loves them.

[Kathy]

He hasn't told anybody.

[Susan]

I know, I know. Maybe he's not going to. He's ready to love.

[Kathy]

Did you hear it?

[Susan]

Wants to continue a relationship and see where it goes. I mean, there's always the face when.

[Kathy]

He said to Cindy, when he was sort of panicked when Cindy said, whatever she said is, his eyes were so dramatically, oh, my God, I'm not there. He literally said that I'm not there. I don't feel the same way. But that at this point, as you said in another episode, we're getting close to the end here.

[Susan]

Something's gotta shake and rattle and roll for you.

[Kathy]

Well, I feel like the women tell all. Some of the women were never in the mix with him. Right. And I think that's what makes this show a little more difficult for me to watch because we're coming down to, you know, the end, the final rose, and I'm not feeling like there's a big difference between the women from the beginning and where he is now. I think that just occurred to me. Do you. Does that make sense?

[Susan]

I feel, yeah. He's come so far because he's eliminated. And it's funny because Joan was here this weekend and it's something that one night after being out and we're sitting around in our diamonds chit chat.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

I said to her, how difficult when you're getting down to it. And she goes, oh, it's the worst. It is the absolute worst. Letting them go because their hopes are up. It's the end of the show. We're doing hometown. Like, oh, I would never want to do that.

[Kathy]

Do you know what she said to me last night? We were chatting out on the deck and I said, do you ever regret. Because we were talking about Mel and who, you know, we want to know who he's going to choose. And we were talking about the fact how different Peg and Cindy are. And I asked her, joan, did you ever think that maybe not that you chose the wrong guy, but that you. It was so hurried. She goes, yes. I feel she said, I absolutely chose the right guy. But she said, I think I sent some men home sooner than I should have and that I feel for Mel in that.

[Susan]

Because you have to, though. I mean, she said there wasn't enough time and you're in that bubble. That's something else we talked about. When you're in the bubble, you've got to stop and remember. Let's see. On your paradise show, Jess had said this. I don't know what it's going to be like in real life.

[Kathy]

Yes.

[Susan]

We're in paradise, living in this. In this bachelor bubble.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

What happens in real life? Well, I still like this part of him. Well, I still like. Or would I like it even more or less? So. Yeah.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

I think that bubble. You have X amount of days to get to know somebody. You're in a competition with how many other women or men you know?

[Katie Couric]

Yeah, it's.

[Susan]

It's. I think that's why they call it reality.

[Kathy]

I think that's what I find intriguing about the show. Even though Mel hasn't get. He's. I've met him. He was very nice to Me. He's a nice man. Good looking, nice man.

[Susan]

Yes.

[Kathy]

But I think that's what I'm finding intriguing about this show as we move through it. Like I want to see how he. The Deliverables, you know, does he get engaged? Does he pick Cindy or Peg? Does he pick neither one? I'm very. Because this, to me it's only the third golden show. Right. But I'm very curious to see if he can. Can get it to the end if.

[Susan]

He opens up and when. Yeah, yeah. And. And if since you, you just. Something you said just triggered something. The third golden show. I would love to see Debbie be a bats golden bachelorette and find the man. Susan, wouldn't that be nice?

[Kathy]

No, it'd be nicer if I was.

[Susan]

Now. It's not behind you, Kath. Our day is gone. Our ship has sailed. We got other things now.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

Now.

[Susan]

No, I just like we all said, we wanted Nancy.

[Kathy]

We always wanted Nancy. Nancy would be.

[Susan]

We're beyond that now too. It's the somebody else's turn. There's a new show. Not necessarily that's how they do it anymore because it. Back in the day, whoever was, you know, like Lesley would have been or.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Susan]

And so on. So I don't know if they'll choose that or not. But I would love to see her.

[Kathy]

I think what makes Debbie interesting is the fact that she's never been married. And that would be so interesting as the lead meeting men and having it. I, I think it'd be fabulous for her.

[Susan]

And hell, she. I bet you $100 million afterwards she would say that was so difficult, you know.

[Kathy]

Okay, well, here's what I gotta say. We got two women who are going to the fantasy suites. I, I cannot wait to see what happens with Mel, what happens with them. And then we have one last week to wait to find out if he chooses Cindy or Peg or neither.

[Susan]

We forgot one part. Remember Peg with the vibrator? She didn't know what it was. And she goes, what is this?

[Kathy]

Do you believe that foot, Michelle?

[Susan]

No, I do not.

[Kathy]

Okay, just checking.

[Susan]

I'm calling you on the package. We did have such a good time with these ladies.

[Kathy]

We did. When we were there at the pajama. They showed it at the end. Us having a pillow fight, everyone lining the feathers. We had so much fun. And of course I was dying that Susan's brilliant idea of bringing vibrators. I was like, why not?

[Susan]

That's the thrill.

[Kathy]

Can we just tell what happened?

[Susan]

I think the next, the next show, which will probably be a female lead in the men. We should go and surprise them on their. She said, I think we're good at it.

[Kathy]

Okay, well, listen, we are very excited. We are excited for the next episode. We're excited. We hope you guys are enjoying it. And this has been fun. This has been fun.

[Susan]

Remember what to do. Thank you so much for joining us. Obviously, we love doing this every week. We really want your opinions and a lot of you, I love that you. You message me and share your thoughts on it. And, and Kathy, the best part is like, she likes what we say. She agrees with us. And if you don't, I want to hear that, too. And you know how to do it it. Bachelor happy hour slash golden hour.

[Kathy]

Try it again. Go to Bachelor. Bachelor nation.

[Susan]

Vacation at sea. That's what almost came out. And those of you have not joined yet. You've got to do this. Can you imagine? It's not just me and her. There's a ton of us. We are going to have a ball.

[Kathy]

Okay. If you want to. If you have questions or comments, go to bachelornation.com Golden Hour. And this has been so much fun. Listen to us. Here we go again.

[Susan]

Wait, you think we know this by now? Look, you guys, thanks so much for joining us. We can't wait to do it again.

[Kathy]

Listen to Bachelor happy hours golden hour on the I heart podcast. And I just.

[Susan]

The I heart radio. We did this. I can't. I couldn't remember. Make sure to submit your questions to us and you can go to bachelornation.com goldenhour or hit us up on social at Bachelor Happy hour. Thanks again. We'll see you next week.

[Kathy]

Take care.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

What's that sound? That's the sound of downy unstoppable scent beads going into your washing machine and giving your clothes freshness that lasts all day long.

[Susan]

There it is again.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

It's like music to your ears. Or more like music to your nose. That freshness is irresistible. Let's get a Downy unstoppables bottle shake. And now a sniff solo. Nice. With Downy Unstoppables, you just toss wash. Wow. For all day freshness.

[Katie Couric]

On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric. I sat down with Bernie Sanders. We've talked many times over the years, and today he even throws a few questions my way.

[Kathy]

All right, are you ready for another question?

[Katie Couric]

Go ahead.

[Susan]

Hit me, Bernie.

[Katie Couric]

We talk about the billionaire class, the cost of living, and of course, the government shutdown. Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

Johnny Knoxville here. Check out Crimeless Hillbilly Heist, my new true crime podcast from Smartless Media, Campside Media and Big Players. It's the true story of the almost perfect crime and the nimrods who almost pulled it off. It was kind of like the perfect.

[Susan]

Storm in a sewer.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

That was dumb.

[Kathy]

Do not follow my example.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

Listen to Crimeless Hillbilly Heist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

[Susan]

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

[Narrator/Storyteller (e.g., Maggie Freeling)]

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

[Susan]

It's Ana Ortiz and I'm Mark and Delicato. You might know us as Hilda and Justin from Ugly Betty. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty.

[Kathy]

We're re watching the series from start to finish and talking to iconic guests.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

Like Betty herself, America Ferreira.

[Susan]

There was this moment when the glasses went on and it was like, this is our Betty. Listen to Viva Betty on the iHeartRadio.

[Podcast Advertiser/Host (e.g., Virgin Voyages, Johnny Knoxville, Michael Lewis)]

App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Susan]

This is an I heart podcast.