Chaunce VS Jabba: The Final Showdown (BPR #359)

Summary

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Backpacker Radio #359: Chaunce VS Jabba: The Final Showdown

Podcast: Backpacker Radio
Hosts: Zach "Badger" Davis, Juliana "Chaunce" Chauncey
Guest/Third Host: Jabba
Date: June 1, 2026
Summary Prepared By: Podcast Summarizer Pro

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Episode Overview

This highly anticipated episode is billed as the ultimate on-air "showdown" between co-hosts Juliana "Chaunce" Chauncey and their frequent sparring partner, Jabba. Chaunce is on her farewell tour before moving to North Carolina, so Zach brings Jabba in for a final roast, rivalry, and roast session that is equal parts uncomfortable, cathartic, and comedic. The episode is a sprawling three-hour journey through old wounds, heartfelt vulnerability, unfiltered arguments, trail stories, gear reviews, emotional goodbyes, and as always, plenty of irreverence.

Themes include the evolution of their friendship/rivalry, big questions about quitting trails and hiking culture, humorous bickering, moments of sincere reflection, and plans for the next chapter of Backpacker Radio. Segments mix listener questions, deep therapy-adjacent moments, triple crowns, a gear review, and questions about the future.

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Table of Contents

1. Episode Tone & Vibe
2. The Jabba-Chaunce Roast/Rivalry
3. Plans for Chaunce’s Farewell & Live Podcast
4. Trail Updates: Jabba on the Arizona Trail
5. Listener and Rachel’s Questions
   • Friendship Evolution
   • Quitting Trails
   • Who’s the Stronger Hiker?
   • Vulnerability + Apologies
   • The Unsolvable Compliment
6. Arm-Wrestling, Physical Showdowns, and “Who Would Win?”
7. Therapy Session: Processing Goodbyes & Identity
8. Hot Takes, AI, and The Button Debate
9. Gear Review: REI Flash Shade Sun Hoodie
10. Triple Crown: Best Food to Pack Out from Town
11. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
12. Key Timestamps

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<a name="tone"></a>

1. Episode Tone & Vibe

• Unfiltered, combative, and raw: The episode captures the chaotic, bickering, and sometimes touching dynamic between Jabba and Chaunce.
• Inside-joke heavy, meta, and self-aware: The hosts openly discuss how their repartee is partly “a bit,” yet layered with real emotion.
• “Therapy Session” energy: Deep, unplanned moments of vulnerability and real talk about life changes, identity, and saying goodbye.
• Comedic but unafraid of discomfort: Arguments are both playful and sharp, sometimes circling into what feels like real tension, other times devolving into farce.

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2. The Jabba-Chaunce Roast/Rivalry

• The Setup: Jabba is brought in for what Zach dubs “the final on-air fight” with Chaunce. Expect interruptions, trash talk, and genuine exasperation—all heightened by drinks.
• Opening Salvos (07:00-10:00):
  • Chair wars: Jabba wants Chaunce’s seat, prompting classic banter (“You're gonna smell my farts on it.” – Chaunce / “You're gonna smell my deodorant on armpits.” – Jabba) [07:07-07:11].
  • Pregnancy & podcast succession: Referencing a previous “manifestation” of Jabba wanting Chaunce gone (“I can't wait till you get pregnant and leave the podcast...”)
• Mocks, insults, sibling rivalry: Ongoing gags involve Jabba not remembering inside jokes, sports ignorance, fart jokes, and pushing each other’s buttons (almost literally).
• Underlying affection: Between roasts, small breaks of “I’ll miss you” show through.

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3. Plans for Chaunce’s Farewell & Live Podcast

• Live Event Announcement: June 26th, doors at 6:00pm (podcast starts 6:30pm). Pitched as “the Chaunce send-off,” part celebration, part funeral (“We’re working on getting a casket”). [08:00]
• Calls to Action: Listeners are urged to submit favorite Chaunce moments and voice messages (Lord of the Rings “one link to rule them all” jokes ensue) [11:30].
• Rotating Co-Host Plans: After Chaunce leaves, a rotating panel (Jabba, Katie, others) and a call for new through-hiker co-host nominations. [12:19]
• Patreon plans: Chaunce will continue to appear in Patreon-only episodes, some solo. [16:06]

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4. Trail Updates: Jabba on the Arizona Trail (18:07-28:44)

Recap by Jabba:

• Recently completed a new section of the Arizona Trail (AZT), picking up at the halfway point, aiming to eventually finish a second full traverse (did the whole thing once in 2015).
• Motivation: To refamiliarize himself with the trail, especially with future bikepacking ambitions.
• Anecdotes: Trail conditions (“as rugged as I remembered”), development of tendonitis from pushing 30+ mile days too soon, a friend (Handstand/Liz Kidder) breaking her ankle, and subsequent “trail angeling.”
• Trail stories detour into Jeep struggles, off-road upgrades, and amusing banter about Wrangler colors and breakdowns (“I lost steering, brakes, and acceleration in the Eisenhower Tunnel... it’s called vapor lock.”).
• “There will always be more quitting.” Jabba reflects on quitting trails and the complicated hiker mindset around it [35:52].

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5. Listener & Rachel’s Questions

Evolution of the Jabba-Chaunce Friendship (45:16, 58:46)

• How Has Your Friendship Changed?
  • Once friendly, it has grown “more hostile” over time—especially after “the incident in Wisconsin.”
  • But the hostility is just a form of steam-letting: “There is something very fun about being able to let off steam by just ruthlessly ripping on someone that you know will never… [take it personally]”—Chaunce [59:01].

Trails Jabba Has Quit (30:13–36:14)

• Running List: PCT twice, Long Trail (due to torn ACL, twice), Wind River High Route, Hey Duke, CDT one year, “Many more.” Quitting seen as “more like a pause,” not shameful.
• Debate on semantics: “Quit is a weird word…”

Who’s the Stronger Hiker? (52:04–58:09)

• Listener Question: Comparing hiking prowess “per pound,” total miles, best planner, etc.
• Result: Spirals into a heated, circular debate about speed, mileage, and weight ratios—eventually devolving into yelling. Zach declares a tie: “Literally, I’m gonna go tie. You both lost.” [58:27]

The Impossible Compliment (94:49–98:36)

• Rachel’s “say one nice thing” prompt sparks a near-existential crisis. Jabba offers a compliment about Chaunce’s uniqueness and her being the “yin to Zach’s yang.” Chaunce struggles mightily, repeatedly circling back to “I don’t know!” and meta-commenting on how her only honest answer is that she “never worries about hurting Jabba’s feelings.” This launches a reluctant, protracted, and ultimately unresolved quest for a sincere compliment—turning into therapy about the real depth or lack thereof to their friendship.

Vulnerability, Apologies, & “Who’s the victim?” (123:02–149:30)

• Jabba shares a recent example of being hurt by friends’ ribbing: “Pretending only gets you so far until it fucking blows up in your face.” [123:48]
• Chaunce admits she usually assumes Jabba is impenetrable, which justifies her meanspiritedness—but then thanks him for being vulnerable. [142:10]
• Both admit the routine is a “bit,” but with genuine affection—even if sometimes it stings.

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6. Arm-Wrestling, Showdowns & Physical Comedy (67:01–68:42)

• Physical challenge: Arm wrestling with “lefty” vs. righty; Chaunce nearly falls over during trust-fall mimicry (“If anyone wants to know how I broke my face, picture a trust fall like that where he lets you fall... Lucy and the football”). [68:42]
• Golden Gauntlet challenge: They debate whether they could actually finish a 25–30 mile hike together, with much mutual skepticism and jokes about quitting (“I'm pre-quitting this hike. Great, another hike in the quit book...”) [90:34].

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7. Therapy Session: Processing Goodbye & Identity (179:10–187:50)

• Processing Segment: Chaunce gets honest about the emotional difficulty of leaving the show (“I think the tough thing that I'll experience is the first episode that I'm replaced on and the whole thing not burning and me realizing... I didn't make a significant impact.”) [177:19]
• Discussion turns philosophical: “If I'm not this—then who am I?” [181:03]
• Jabba reminds: No one can predict who they’ll become—the gift is openness to new identities, rather than pigeonholing yourself.
• More reflection: “I want to go into this new experience without expectations. Not because I don't know who I am, but because I don't want to decide who I am.”

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8. Hot Takes, AI, and The Button Debate (134:11–217:44)

• Hot Takes: OnlyFans on trail, gatekeeping/geotagging, and “backpacking isn’t that serious” [134:17–138:18]
• AI Debate: Spirals into a long, tipsy, multi-threaded discussion of artificial intelligence, resource scarcity, optimism and pessimism, the rise and fall of communities, and whether individual action even matters [200:00–212:22].
• Ultimate “button question”: Everyone on earth privately presses red or blue. If >50% pick blue, all survive; if not, only red button pressers survive. Debate ensues: Is it selfish to press red? What do your choices say about optimism or pessimism? “If you cared about your people, you wouldn't push blue.” – Chaunce [217:06]. The group can’t agree—ending in a deadlock reflecting their personalities.

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9. Gear Review: REI Flash Shade Sun Hoodie (219:05–227:12)

Summary:

• $70 (budget-friendly)
• UPF 50+ (high)
• Soft material, but runs hot—not impressed with the breathability. Hood is “too tight,” not enough airflow (“If you're hiking through 90 degree terrain… this didn't work”).
• Thumb holes and ponytail hole are plusses (likely better for women).
• Overall: “My least favorite [sun hoodie so far], but not a bad hoodie for the price.”
• Rating: 5.1 out of 10 “Chaunce’s boobs” (host’s chosen scale)

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10. Triple Crown: Best Food to Pack Out from Town (229:26)

• Top picks:

  • Jabba: Subway subs (especially meatball/cold cuts), Italian leftovers (pasta in a bottle pot), frozen burritos.
  • Chaunce: Pizza (“half a pizza in a Ziploc!”), full bag of chips, English muffins (plus all toppings: cheese, avocado, tomato), and creative leftovers.
  • Zach: Burritos, fast food burgers, fruit/fruit cup (for nutrition and freshness).

• Pro tips: Use Ziplocs, don’t worry about “fridge rules”—24–36 hours from town, almost anything is fair game.

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11. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You’re going to smell my farts on it.” – Chaunce [07:07]
• “I’d venture to argue my testicle is more round than a football.” – Zach [04:53]
• “I can't wait till you get pregnant and leave the podcast so I could take your place.” – Jabba (quoted by Chaunce) [06:44]
• “The podcast ends when Chaunce gets murdered, so by definition...” – Chaunce [34:46]
• “You guys… let’s just get through the reminders.” – Zach (multiple times, exasperated)
• “There’s one thing I can be sure of—there’s more quitting coming.” – Jabba [35:52]
• “No, I think after today's episode, you might be happy to be done with it.” – Zach, after the marathon of therapy vibes [176:54]
• “I wanted to go into this not knowing who I'm going to become, because then I have room to grow.” – Chaunce [184:32]
• “If you were more like that [vulnerable], I wouldn't so quickly be like, well, how many trails have you quit?” – Chaunce, during heart-to-heart [141:28]

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12. Key Timestamps

• 07:00: Jabba and Chaunce’s first face-off
• 08:00: Plans and plug for the live farewell event
• 18:14: Arizona Trail update, trail detours, injuries
• 30:13: “How many trails have you quit?” debate
• 45:16/58:46: Friendship then vs. now—evolution into hostility
• 52:04: Who is the stronger hiker? The ratio debate
• 67:01: Arm wrestling, “trust falls,” and physical comedy
• 90:34: Golden Gauntlet hike challenge: could they finish it together?
• 123:02: Jabba’s vulnerability and moments of being hurt
• 142:10: Apologies, self-reflection, and emotional depth crack through
• 179:10: Processing segment: Chaunce on saying goodbye, identity
• 134:11: Hot takes (OnlyFans, geotagging, “not that serious”)
• 200:00-212:22: AI debate—dystopian vs. optimistic future
• 219:05: Sun hoodie review: REI Flash Shade (with “Chaunce’s boobs” scale)
• 229:26: Triple Crown: Best food to hike out from town with
• 252:46: Five-star review and Chaunce's plea for emotional support (and nostalgia)
• End: Touching toasts, cathartic admissions, and actual (mostly) non-ironic goodbyes

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Conclusion

This episode is a one-of-a-kind “final showdown”—equal parts roast, open-mic therapy, nostalgia-fest, and chaos. It offers a unique window into the real, complex friendships and rivalries that fuel Backpacker Radio's charm. Beneath the bickering and wild comedy are real feelings about community, change, and what defines us on and off the trail. Trail nerds, show fans, and those curious about the hosts’ true personalities will find this one both highly entertaining and weirdly moving.

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Listened already? Have a favorite Chaunce moment, or want to weigh in on the “button question,” gear debates, or who would win in a fight? Submit your thoughts at the link in the show notes, or leave a five-star review to give Chaunce some love on her next nostalgia scroll.

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Backpacker Radio: “We’ll see you on the trail.”

Transcript

[Zach Badger Davis]

In today's episode of Backpack Radio present of the trek brought to you by Element, we are bringing you the final on air fight between Jabba and Chaunce. This one is mostly awkward and uncomfortable with I think a dash of closure at the end. Will you enjoy it? I don't know. Maybe not. Anyways, we wrap the show with a question of the day involving button pushing and death, a new sun hoodie review, the REI Flash Shade, the Triple Crown of food to hike out of town with. We break down whether all food can be categorized as a soup, salad or sandwich. We put out a call for your favorite CH clips and for your self nominations as guest co host of this here podcast. But first, if you've listened to this podcast for any period of time, I've sounded like a broken record about the importance of supplementing with electrolytes while backpacking. During my first hike, I landed in the hospital with a condition called hyponatremia, which is just a fancy term for low blood sodium levels. Symptoms included intense headaches, dizziness, and generally feeling like a bag of Richards. This happened as a result of heavy sweating over consuming water and under consuming electrolytes. A couple of saline IVs and a hefty medical bill later and my energy was magically restored. Electrolytes and backpacking go together like peanut butter and jelly, which is why I'm thrilled to have Element as today's sponsor. Element is a science backed zero sugar electrolyte brand with enough sodium, potassium and magnesium to help you feel and perform your best on trail and beyond. No sugar, no artificial flavors, no dodgy ingredients. Just the stuff your body actually needs. And now they've got something new. 12 ounce sparkling waters. The same great electrolytes in a slim can built for the in between moments, the long drive to the trailhead town days, or just sitting at your desk trying to not feel like a zombie. There are four flavors Pineapple salt, lemonade salt, black cherry salt and orange salt. They're salty, bright and crisp. Honestly a great swap for anyone trying to ditch their sodas without giving up something they actually enjoy drinking. Free Stuff Alert Backpacker Radio listeners can score a free sample pack that's eight stick packs across four flavors with any purchase by going to drinklmnt.com again, that's drink element lmnt.com trek no coupon code necessary, but you do have to use the URL and it's only good for a limited time. If you've listened to Backpacker radio for any amount of time, you know that Chaunce and I are big fans of gossamer gear, and today I want to talk about their newest pole, the FT3 trekking poles. These are ideal for fast packing and trail running, where the terrain changes fast and you need to go from pocket to pole and back again in seconds. No more choosing between carrying poles you don't need and scrambling for poles you can't reach. Stash them, Grab them. Go. At just 6.2 ounces per pole, carbon fiber shafts and a custom molded EVA foam grip keep every swing light. They're a variation of the best selling LT5s, dialed in specifically for when speed is the priority. If you're putting in big miles and the trail keeps throwing different terrain at you, the FT3s are your go to discount time. Backpacker Radio listeners can score a $20 discount off these polls or the popular LT5s by using code backpackerradio at [e-mail]. again, that's code backpackerradio all one [e-mail] for $20 off your new favorite set of UL Trekking Poles. This deal is only good for a limited time, so do not wait.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You go.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Welcome to BACKPACKER Radio, present of the trek brought to you by Element. I am your co host, Zach Badger Davis. Sitting to my right is.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Hi, I'm Juliana Chauncey, AKA ch.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Are you quiet? I think you're quiet.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think I am. Turn me up.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Let's go. And chance is watching hockey.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. You know what's great is when you have a full circle moment and. And the. The moment that started. A circle.

[Jabba]

Circular.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Like a puck?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, yes. Or puck like moment. Other balls that are in sports. Sports balls, not human balls. Those ones are less circular and more.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I mean, a football is not.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I would call a human.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'd venture to argue that my testicle is more round than a football.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right. Well, that wasn't the first ball I was thinking of. But anyway, I would say it's your first sports. Dropped shape. I don't know. There's basketball, soccer balls, volleyballs, baseball. Those are all fucking circles.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What ball comes first to mind?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, if I'm thinking of a testicle, it is a teardrop shape more than a. I mean, it's.

[Jabba]

It's funny you're talking about balls and testicles when I.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No one invited you into the conversation.

[Jabba]

Chesticles and triceptic.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Remember when we said don't talk for five minutes?

[Jabba]

No, actually, I don't remember hearing that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. Well, it just happened.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Anyway, so you're watching Hockey.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. So there was an episode where Jabba was last here where he watched football as I asked him interview questions, and I thought it's rude. Well, karma's on my side because I thought the Sabers played at 7 today. Turns out that was east time. They play at five. So behind, if you're watching on YouTube, our lovely triangle of element, stay salty cans. Is my phone playing hockey, and I refuse to turn it off.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So if you see Tron's getting more engaged, that means it's intermission, right?

[Juliana Chauncey]

So we're on a period break right now. We just started on a period break.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Well, this isn't girl stuff. Relax.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right, so that's a job. I thought, too, because he has a single track mind and just doesn't understand sports. I've been trying to teach Java sports for, like, eight years now. Guy just doesn't even like them. Like, do you even know what Penn State is?

[Jabba]

Johnson have a competitive bone in her body. That's why she didn't shotgun a beer.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's why I like watching them. Those who can't do, watch.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Well, let's get through some show not to talk.

[Jabba]

You're talking to me right now. Looking at me, talking to me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So if you haven't. If you haven't guessed what kind of episode you're in for the roast of Julia.

[Jabba]

Chauncey. Juliana. Chauncey. Excuse me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

First you want my seat, now you're changing my name.

[Jabba]

Listen, we already forgot about you here, all right?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, cool. I've been flying this for a long time. Let me. Jabba from. Let me quote Jabba from. Last Pct. Trail days on a boat.

[Jabba]

Okay, go on.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I can't wait till you get pregnant and leave the podcast so I could take your place.

[Jabba]

Basically is happening.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You did manifest it. You did manifest it.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You know, when I announced this, the person I knew would be happiest is. And you come in here with the audacity to ask for my chair.

[Jabba]

Hey, first of all, she's not pregnant yet.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, but you can't have my chair yet.

[Jabba]

Okay, well, I don't even.

[Juliana Chauncey]

See, now.

[Jabba]

You know the old saying, I don't see your name on it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You're gonna smell my farts on it.

[Jabba]

Oh, you're gonna smell my deodorant on armpits?

[Juliana Chauncey]

You're going to smell my armpits in your nose because you instinctively whiffed it, freak. Shut up. You just leave the room.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, so by now you'll know that either you hate this episode or this is your Favorite episode, but it's

[Juliana Chauncey]

going to be one of those.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm going to be on guard for the next three hours.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We're doing the Tron farewell tour here, and we couldn't obviously do that without Jabba. We're. We're not there yet. We have a few reminders before we get to that part of the show.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Why send her off without putting her through pain and suffering first?

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's right. That's right. Thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself. And to that point, the chance send off.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yes.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Live podcast. We're calling it a party.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yes.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This is like dia de los de los.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's that thing you do after people die.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We're celebrating.

[Jabba]

We're.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We're not mourning. We're celebrating.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We're working on getting a casket.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Your life. But, yes, this is going down. June 26th. Doors are at 6pm we set it late enough so people could come in from far away. The show starts at 6:30. We want people coming in from far and wide for this one. This one is going to be historic. I decided today that we're going to do a raffle. And by today, I mean today, as of the recording of this podcast, not the release, obviously.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Should we just give away. Do we still have my underwear? No, we already gave those away.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, there was some very shy gentleman at the Wisconsin Live podcast that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I hope he's still huffing those.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Do you remember how much he paid?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Not much.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, not enough.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Not enough.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Well, I think his wife was there.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. I mean, maybe they were for her.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But anyway, I was seeing that the other day because I had sweat in that backpacker radio shirt. So he's like, we could give away the shirt that I sweat and I want a new one. I want to replace it. I still want the shirt.

[Zach Badger Davis]

But that reminds me of that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I could give someone one with my musk. Yeah, that's not going to be that enticing. But you should get your tickets for this if you want to come, because my whole fragile ego depends on it. And if no one comes, then that means that I have no worth, and that's the takeaway I'll leave this state with. So is that healthy? No, but it's the reality. So if you haven't gotten your tickets yet because you're like, oh, it's still 26 days away. I've got time. Yeah, okay, cool. Also, but I'm mentally crumbling.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So we also learned that we're going to get a. I don't know, a guest. What's the correct word. A familiar.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Possibly. Possibly. We haven't decided on it yet. We're trying to work out the dates that they will come to North Carolina. But my dad pitched the idea of him coming to this.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Which I think would be most terrifying for Jabba.

[Zach Badger Davis]

He would change one bit.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because you fucking bully me all the time. Bully me in front of my dad.

[Jabba]

I'm going to bully your dad.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I will hit you.

[Jabba]

You cannot.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Who would win in a fist fight, Me or Java? And mind you, this is.

[Jabba]

If we.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If we were both trying. If we were both trying.

[Jabba]

130 pounds on you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If we were both trying. Obviously him, but I feel like he would be a little caught off guard and worried about taking a swing.

[Jabba]

I'll tell you. Right. I'll tell you right now, John, I'll let you punch me in the face right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, you wouldn't.

[Jabba]

Only if you let me punch you in the face right back.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I wouldn't hold back.

[Jabba]

Yeah, me neither.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, let's.

[Jabba]

I'll let you hit me first.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Let's get through the reminders before we get to the hamburger part of this episode. We're still in the bun.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We should do the tortilla slap thing.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That would be funny.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But I. Oh, God, I would love.

[Jabba]

Anyways, I'm gonna bully your dad.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I would love to punch you in the face.

[Jabba]

I know you would.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Maybe you'll let me do that at the live podcast just as.

[Jabba]

Like a little goodbye gift. Yeah, absolutely. As long as you let me, I guess.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Where are you going?

[Jabba]

Slap you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Where are you going?

[Jabba]

Where am I going?

[Juliana Chauncey]

You don't need a goodbye gift.

[Jabba]

I don't need a goodbye.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right. It's not.

[Jabba]

You think I'm gonna let you as

[Juliana Chauncey]

a going away present?

[Jabba]

Guess what?

[Zach Badger Davis]

You guys, you guys, you guys, let's just. Let's just get through the reminders.

[Jabba]

Yeah, it's like. Shut up.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. Once we get through the reminders, I'll go take a nap. Don't worry about it. But, yeah, Please come to the live podcast. It is gonna be epic. I promise you. There's stuff happening behind the scenes, so, yeah, it's good.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't know what it is. So that makes it better.

[Zach Badger Davis]

To that point, we would love for you guys to submit. We know that our listeners are the most dedicated people in the planet, and we want you to share your favorite chaunce moments from BACKPACKER radio history through the link that'll be provided in the show notes. Additionally to that, you. If you don't have anything or you don't feel like digging through the show notes. That's. Or not the show notes through past episodes. That's fine. You can also leave Trance a voicemail. So one link to rule them all. That'll be in the show notes here.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, Lord of the Rings. That was great.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Was that a quote from Lord of the Rings?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Come on, Zach. Oh, my God. Yeah. One link to rule them all. What word were you replacing with link?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Is that ring?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yes.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay, I just learned something about Lord of the Rings. Okay, okay.

[Jabba]

Now we're gonna fucking team up on Zack because this motherfucker doesn't know Lord of the Rings.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Him and Jolly already teamed up on anything.

[Jabba]

It's horrible.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't do fantasy guys.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't even talk to him.

[Jabba]

I got.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I got laid in high school.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That sounds like someone who hasn't gotten laid yet. Trying to prove that they got laid.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I had six.

[Jabba]

Three times.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, twice. And I have three kids.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And you put your fantasy penis into her belly button. And that's how a baby.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Great podcast so far.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Please share your favorite Chance moments through the link in the show notes. Next.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Is this.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I mean, no, this is something.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So it's fine.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This is something that Chance is not handling the news well. As I've mentioned, we're gonna have a rotating panel of co hosts for this podcast after Chance abandons us and leaves for North Carolina.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But Jabba, this one's for you.

[Jabba]

Oh, now I'm here. No. Great.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Like I said, we're gonna have familiar faces. Jabba's gonna be sitting in. Katie's gonna be sitting in. Jessica gonna be sitting in. Nelis going to be sitting in.

[Jabba]

But isn't there going to be another J name? No.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Jabba]

Am I confused?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yes.

[Jabba]

Deal.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You're spilling info too soon.

[Jabba]

Listen, I don't know.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This is for co. Future co hosts of this podcast. If you fancy yourself a good interviewer, I would love for you to submit yourself. There will be another Google form available in the show notes. It could be someone that's been on the podcast before. It could be a brand new person. You have to have through hiking chops. And you have to be a decent interviewer.

[Jabba]

You should. You know what you should do? Whoever you're just talking to who are out there listening to that, you should make them like submit. Like whatever people submit when they do, like road Real world or like, like a resume. Yeah, but in a video form. Yeah, those videos can get submitted.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm so never had to apply for this Shit.

[Jabba]

You know what I'm saying?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Though that will be an audio component for sure. Unless they've been a previous guest, then you've already showed your chops.

[Jabba]

But I think it should be a contest.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think they should have to do a mock interview. Me as the guest.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I like that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And you two call me and I'm the guest.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That could be a Patreon.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I'll be intentionally difficult.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It be a patreon.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'll be like Jabba is to me,

[Jabba]

first of all, intentionally difficult.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Chance look in a mirror.

[Jabba]

Is. Is it not already what you are? Look in the mirror. This is as simple as it gets, baby.

[Zach Badger Davis]

But if you want to sit in John's seat, which Jabba has already requested,

[Juliana Chauncey]

sounds great, doesn't it?

[Zach Badger Davis]

For yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Don't you want to be in this position?

[Jabba]

Don't you want to get bullied and berated by me while I drink?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Jabba was going into the bathroom and went out and had a drink beforehand. You could probably guess that. And as TR was coming into the studio, Jabba comes out of the bathroom frantically being like, let me sit in

[Jabba]

the middle seat today, Tron. I want the middle seat. And she goes, you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I go, you sit on his face. You

[Zach Badger Davis]

Jabba sitting on your face.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm in the seat. If he wants to seat, that's the only way to get there.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right.

[Jabba]

Okay, here we are.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Next note is we are still full blown in our Backpacker radio shirt merch drive sale thing that's available via bonfire.com we'll have some fun product photos for you. But the shirts are super cool.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. I have unfortunately since changed. So for this one I will not be showing it off in the YouTube but I did wear it twice in a row for that sake. And then today I considered it and I thought we should show that time has passed.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Time has passed.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So I put on a lighter shirt where you can now see my pit stains reminder.

[Jabba]

I need some photos.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You need what photos? Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Jabba]

I mean, I got a photo of those pistons already. The house that's all of drab green. I wore that in the Marine Corps. Same exact shirt.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do you want it?

[Jabba]

I literally have 100.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Give me your shirt.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It does look like you guys should be wearing my shirt.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I can keep my shirt if you give me your shirt.

[Jabba]

Listen, I already definitely have.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Sounds like you're afraid.

[Jabba]

Sounds like you don't want this though. Trust me.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Last but Certainly not least, patreon.com backpacker radio is the easiest place that you can support this Podcast that's been true forever. You get every episode. Advertisement free through our Patreon, but also moving forward. That's where Chaunce and I will continue to be making episodes. Chaunce is going to do some solo episodes, but Chaunce will be firmly entrenched in the Patreon world. So if you want to continue to hear Chaunce's voice, that's the place to do it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Chauncey, I can't wait to hear what these are. Solo episodes. I get free reign over anything.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Sandbox. You can do whatever you want.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's gonna be fun. I don't know what it will entail.

[Jabba]

This is just with sand.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But you know what? We know I have great ideas. So. Yeah. Anyway,

[Jabba]

good, good airtime. Go. Keep going.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Are you watching hockey? What's happening?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I'm trying to find out if my landlord's gonna do an open house this weekend.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay. She's very engaged in the podcast right now.

[Jabba]

Yeah. Anyway, Zach, do you want to talk?

[Juliana Chauncey]

You know, but, you know, it's funny. So my landlord might move back in, and he just let us know this week. So we're either having an open house Saturday and Sunday where like 50 plus people will be going through the house, and it has to be clean and spotless or we won't. And so there's a. Basically, Garrett just texted me and said, I don't know if I will come pick you up tonight because now I'm stressed out because I don't know what's happening. And I'm like, great, my ride just fell through Uber. So that's. That's where. That's how we got to. This typically would not matter during the episode, but when your ride falls through, it's kind of like, okay, wait, what are we doing here?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Okay, great.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We got through my portion. Now I'll go take a nap.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We're calling this an interview with Jabba. I don't know what this is going to be. We have a few talking points lined up. But the most important thing is I'm going to read Rachel's note here, which is Jabba's here to formally apologize for his treatment to of trance over the past eight years. Or possibly double down.

[Jabba]

I'm ready to double. As in like, her eyes and these eyes down on everything I've been saying at and towards and because of. Is it Julie or Julian? I can't. I can't remember.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm gonna go pee.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Anyways, you guys have fun.

[Jabba]

You need your glasses for this because.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Plug for the YouTube because I'm sure the head of HR just did a

[Jabba]

violation himself and bruises will talk about it. All right. Not apologizing.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This part right here, we don't need chance for. Because I want the recap. Because you recently covered some miles on the Arizona trail.

[Jabba]

True.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Give us that recap.

[Jabba]

Oh, okay. Well, started the. At the halfway point. Point, which is like I forget highway.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Was there any significance to where you got on?

[Jabba]

Yeah, it was the halfway point where I got off last spring. So I did the top, did the bottom. 400 miles plus or minus. Technically it was minus. So like I think it's 387 miles I did last spring and then got off right there at Highway 87 that goes to Payson or Phoenix. And there was never, there was never an intent to do the entire trail last spring. In fact, the reason I got back on the Arizona trail, and if you didn't know, I have already done the entire trail in one shot, one through hike back in 2015.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Free PCT, right?

[Jabba]

Pre first PCT. Yep. And it was post Florida trail back in 2015. And so this time. So it's been like 10 years, 10, 11 years now since I've been on the entire Arizona trail. But I have aspirations to bike packet and I wanted to get on the trail and remind myself of every mile that that trail is. And for context, I've done a lot of bike packing at this point, but I'm not very versed in single track trail with bike packing or you know, from a long distance standpoint. I've definitely done single track trail, but I would not call myself an avid backcountry single track backpack or bikepacker. That's tough work. That's a lot of, a lot of tough work. And a buddy of ours, I assume you. You guys know, you guys know halfway anywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He great. Of course I assumed he had been,

[Juliana Chauncey]

but I asked him when he was on the.

[Jabba]

Can't remember when that was.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It was not in person. So that was one of the COVID Oh really?

[Jabba]

They don't really count anyways, Max. Great. But when he did it, he bike packed the entire Arizona trail. It was his first bike packing endeavor and he was just like, man, I was pushing that bike as much as I was riding it. He's like, it was like, like he, I think he averaged like 31, don't quote me, but like roughly 31ish miles a day. And he said it was incredibly difficult and he would have done a lot of things different. So I just wanted to kind of refill it. Re. Familiarize myself with the trail itself, and lo and behold, it's as rugged as I remember. And then, of course, there's a component of, like, carrying your bike across the Grand Canyon, which you cannot ride in a national park with a bike anywhere in this country. So that's an element that's also interesting. But when I was out there this time, I got on at mile, like I said, 387, and hiked to Flagstaff. And at Flagstaff, I started developing the same old song and dance. I get a bit of tendinitis and the top of my ankle on my. These people. How are we doing here?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm just not interested in anything you're saying. Well, I'm kidding.

[Jabba]

You want to cut this off right now?

[Juliana Chauncey]

You look so smart.

[Jabba]

Thank you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, tell me about your tendonitis.

[Jabba]

So anyways, I get it every year when I start, like, pushing big miles too early, too fast. And I was pushing 30s, basically within a few days of being on the trail. And it's a lot of flat once you get to the town of Pine and you get above what's called the Maguillon Rim, and it just lends itself to pushing hard. You're just flat miles all the way to the Grand Canyon, essentially. And I was like, fuck it. Let's just do 30s. And lo and behold, it happened yet again. So I just. I pulled off at Flagstaff and took a few days, and I was like, all right, maybe I'll, like, get back on and do the Grand Canyon and beyond. But as it turned out, you know, the Grand Canyon in the north rim was completely closed from the standpoint of even going up on an alternate route on the Bass Trail. You couldn't even hike above the rim on the North Rim anywhere, so we couldn't even hike through on the Bass Trail. So essentially, I was just like, screw this. I'll. I'll do, you know, the border of Utah to Flagstaff, either in the fall or next spring, whatever, to complete my. My second hike of the Arizona Trail. So I did a. I don't know. It was probably. I want to guess, probably like 200ish miles, give or take. I didn't. I didn't actually, like, figure out the mileage.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And you were out there with a couple of familiar faces.

[Jabba]

Ollie was out there. Handstand was out there. However, handstand. Liz Kidder Handstand broke. At the time, we didn't know she had a broken ankle, but she rolled her ankle going into Roosevelt Lake, which was about. I Don't know, maybe like 60ish miles south of the halfway point where I got on. And so she, she basically thought that like at some point she'd be hiking again and would take some time off and just keep hiking with us wherever the hell we were. But you know, she ended up having. Her ankle was not getting better. She rolled it way worse than we anticipated. And she went and got imaging in Pine after seeing an orthopedic in or the emergency room in Flagstaff, she turns out full blown fracture in her ankle. Excuse me, full blown fracture in her ankle. And so that sucked. But what ended up happening was the people she was hiking with. Milkman. Great name, Sonic. And Milkman has his name because he literally drinks milk.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Like that would have been my guess.

[Jabba]

Literally actually drinking milk.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Does he pack milk out?

[Jabba]

I've not seen him pack it out. I've definitely seen him pour.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, does he use the powdered milk?

[Jabba]

You know, that's a good question. I don't know offhand.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Sounds like he's not committed.

[Jabba]

He's pretty fucking committed. As far as milk drinkers, you don't

[Juliana Chauncey]

even know if he uses the powder.

[Jabba]

I mean, listen, every time he gets to town, there's a gallon of milk in his hand. A gallon of milk in his hand. I'm sorry, how many times are you drinking a gallon of milk when you're in town? You know, zero times here and there, once even. Can you name one time you bought a gallon of milk in a trail town and drank it? Can you name it?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Maybe.

[Jabba]

Yeah, exactly. Not so anyways, Sonic who? Good guy, great guy, by the way. Milkman and Sonic, both veterans, sonic being a 20 year or just shy of 20 year veteran of the Air Force. Milkman was a combat journalist for the army, I believe. And then there was also smiles and he is a cool dude. They're all cool dudes. But because Liz had a broken ankle, her vehicle, a jeep that she'd been living in since Thanksgiving, she had it staged in Flagstaff at a storage unit. And so she went and hitched up to Flagstaff, got her jeep and started trail angel us. And then when I got injured then I was just helping drive her jeep while she had a broken ankle, while she was in a boot because, you know, driving with a boot, pain in the ass. So. And I ended up being like the driver and she was like, you know, just. We were just helping trail angel the guys all the way to the end essentially from Flagstaff beyond. It was a lot of fun. It was a good time.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What's her latest status?

[Jabba]

As far as I know.

[Juliana Chauncey]

She just. I just saw a photo on the gram this morning. I didn't read the caption because I just popped up and then I scrolled. But she was sitting on the Jeep and then there was an update. It was her sitting on the Jeep.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Nice update.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. Yeah, you're welcome.

[Jabba]

Yeah. After. After we finished the. After we. I mean like this tramley because, you know, it was like we were one big happy tramley for a while there. It was a lot of fun. But we, we drove people back to Flagstaff and then Liz and I and a couple others drove to Vegas and then everybody parted ways in Vegas. But she got her jeep lifted with bigger wheels, bigger tires because a. She lives in it like we said. Like I said. But she had an instance where she was trying to meet us on trail with pizza after we left behind. No, she didn't bottom out, but she was freaking out because the, the roads that she had to take to get to us were like above and beyond anything she's experienced personally. Like she's, she's owned a jeep for years, but she's never really like taken it off road and done the craziness.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's nice to have someone with you.

[Jabba]

I wasn't with her. Like she was.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I'm saying it's. When you go on those roads, as someone who had a wrangler, it's nice to have someone with you who can get out and like totally help over the ones you're like going to scratch. My.

[Jabba]

And I've had a wrangler in the past as well.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What color was yours?

[Jabba]

What color? Yeah, it's like that, like almost like a metallic tan.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Mine was blue.

[Jabba]

Yeah. What year was yours?

[Juliana Chauncey]

A 2010.

[Jabba]

I was an 04. I had the, the last year they made the extended wheelbase two doors before they went to four doors.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, it was a two door.

[Jabba]

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, she had a very stressful moment trying to bring us pizzas on trail, which you can watch her YouTube about it. A very, very, very interesting episode. But it made her be like, oh, I want to get like, you know, my, my Jeep a little more road or off road worthy rather. So she found a place in Vegas to do like off road work for her because it's a lot of places like that in Vegas that do that. And I just flew out of. Flew home from Vegas after. I don't know if you ever talked to my buddy bouts I was in the Marine Corps with.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We talk about him a lot about.

[Jabba]

Yeah, he was a machine gunner in the Marine Corps attached to my infantry unit. One of my best friends. We hiked the AT together on my first AT through hike. Then we hiked with Warrior Hike. And he's been living in Vegas for years now. And he does tour guiding in the Valley of Fire. And he took us out to the Valley of Fire. We had a good time out there off roading and doing shit. It's just a lot of fun. So. So as far as I know, she's still waiting to find out about her. Her ankle being broken and what she's going to do with the rest of her year.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't.

[Jabba]

I have no idea.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If she hasn't gotten one yet, I don't know that you would know this, but if she for some reason would be listening to this and hasn't gotten one yet, she should get a skid plate. I got that. There's been transmission and all the.

[Jabba]

There's talk.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Nice. Just in case.

[Jabba]

Yep. Yep.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You hear that? Nice.

[Jabba]

It's her home. I think she's like realizing she needs to definitely, like off road proof it. Yeah, for sure.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I lived out of mine for a bit. I. When I lived out of mine, I didn't know. You don't know what you don't know. I tried to go from Zion. I was in Zion. I wanted to go to Moab. And I was like, yeah, you could go to highway. Shut up. An L. Or I could just diagonal across on all these back roads across Utah, which. Why would that go wrong? I get like partially up mountain.

[Jabba]

Wait, do you still have a Jeep?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I sold it. It broke down in the Eisenhower tunnel. I lost steering brakes. I lost steering brakes and acceleration. It's called vapor lock. So I. I caused hours of traffic. I had to get to the Eisenhower lot. Went down.

[Jabba]

Anybody doesn't know what the Eisenhower Tunnel is, it's the Divide Tunnel.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Ask me about my Colorado trail section hike and why it wasn't a good idea. But I got the hot oil light came on when I was halfway up this dirt mountain alone with no fucking business doing shit. I didn't know how.

[Jabba]

And I was like, I have a Jeep. It's fine.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Hot oil sounds bad.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Anyway, they're like 400 bucks.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

So to close that out, I definitely know she's going to be like, out on the west coast for a bit with a buddy of hers that she was hiking with on the PCT last year when they did the snow in the Sierra. She's gonna do some trail magic on the pct and beyond. I don't know. I think she's got a permit for the. For Havasupa. I'm not sure how that will go. It's kind of all dependent upon how her ankle is healing. No clue.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's an experiment to get.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay, the first question here is from Tronce. You want me to ask it?

[Juliana Chauncey]

It was more relevant when he was talking about it, but, I mean, yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Tronce wants to know how many trails you've quit.

[Jabba]

A lot. A lot. Quit is a weird word, though. Like, quit, as in, like. It's more like pause, like, I'll be back. But quit, like, been, like, how to tap.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So can you get the mic a little bit closer to you?

[Jabba]

Yeah, sure.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He's not doing a good job of showing his co host abilities. Clueless.

[Jabba]

You mean Zach isn't?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, you.

[Jabba]

Yeah, well, Zach should have told me. These headphones suck. I can't hear myself.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The headphones are not good. Yeah.

[Jabba]

Yeah. So anyways, blame the tools. John's shucking a beer. You all right? So the. I think I quit the PCT twice. I quit the. The what is it? The. I quit the very last day of my third Wind River High route, Lone Star Trail. That Quitting. That's.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Did you finish it?

[Jabba]

Yeah, sure. We quit.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We quit. Did you set out to do anything?

[Jabba]

We quit. We quit. That. And I would not call quitting the Arizona Trail thing or Arizona Trail, I think, because I stopped when I ran out of time last year. I stopped when, you know, there was no need to keep hiking this year. So it's not quitting. It's more just like, I'll be back. The other trails that I Did you

[Juliana Chauncey]

plan to hike the whole thing?

[Jabba]

I planned to be out there for an indeterminate period of time, and then when the time was up, I was done. Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You didn't have a goal to finish.

[Jabba]

The goal was to be on the Arizona Trail.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'll bring it up only because this was the subject of a previous episode. Long Trail.

[Jabba]

The Long Trail. I quit because I tore my acl. Yep. I quit it twice, in fact.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh. Colorado or no. Continental Divide Trail. You quit that one yet?

[Jabba]

No, I've been sectioning that, but I never. I never did the gdt.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You did one of those on, like, a bike or something?

[Jabba]

The. The GDT's in Canada.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What's. No, the. The Great Divide mountain Biking route on, like, the cdt. The one that's like a loop. That Grand Enchantment.

[Jabba]

Right. I've never done the Grand Enchantment I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. But however, I. I guess I technically did quit the CDT in 22 when I attempted to through hike it. Sure, I quit that that year, but then I went and rode 5, 000 miles after that, and since then I've been sectioning the CVT for myself. Second CDT hike.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, you don't need to validate any of this. We know you're still outside.

[Jabba]

Do you want the answers or do you. What do you want?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Just want to know how many.

[Jabba]

You want answers or you want me to like. Because you're talking about not validating, but, like, you want content right now. What do you actually want? Shots. What do you want?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Clear answers.

[Jabba]

Yeah, I literally gave them to you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Technicality. Whatever.

[Jabba]

Fine.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, sure.

[Jabba]

Zach. Help.

[Zach Badger Davis]

There's no helping.

[Jabba]

There's no helping you guys.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If I was like, yeah, I set out to do this thing and then I just, like, didn't align with me, so I didn't technically quit that one. I'd be like, giving factual information. I don't care.

[Jabba]

Giving factual information.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't care.

[Jabba]

How many trails have you quit? This is the most dead air we've had.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't. You could say technically, the Ozark Highlands Trail, because I had intended to do more than I did.

[Jabba]

Well, technically is all that matters.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And then it was like the part that wasn't finished yet. It was all bushwhacking. And I said, this is stupid.

[Jabba]

That sounds like a quit.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But I finished the. Like the finished part of the trail.

[Jabba]

Sounds like you quit.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, so now flip that. That's how I'm viewing the things that you're saying.

[Jabba]

Well, yeah, of course. Exactly. Technically. We're going with technically.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, well, that's how it feels to listen to. And you're like. So it sounds like you were just

[Jabba]

validating after making fun of me. Validating, quote unquote.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Example, Zach. Helping you.

[Jabba]

Not helping me. Helping the podcast. That podcast is helping the fucking listeners right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

They don't need. They're safe with me.

[Jabba]

They really do. Six weeks. They will do. I don't need anything.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Who's going to protect them from you, Zach? That one help.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'll be helping no one, Mon.

[Juliana Chauncey]

They scored.

[Zach Badger Davis]

See?

[Jabba]

CH needs different kind of help. All right, all right. So everybody knows Chance is going to get murdered at the end of this podcast.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Like for the YouTube we're going to find.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I mean, the podcast ends when Chaunce

[Juliana Chauncey]

gets murdered, so by definition, my don't call me out on My subtle goal. To burn this whole thing to the ground before I leave. How dare you?

[Zach Badger Davis]

I mean, that's been pretty crystal clear.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, come on. I have acted very accepting. Please.

[Jabba]

I'm still trying to think if I've actually quit any other trails. There's probably some others. I'm not remembering my first. Hey, Duke. We. It did not go as planned. My.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Is that when your phone broke on the first day?

[Jabba]

Yep. Yeah. My second hey, Duke. Did not go as planned either.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We quit on the Wind River High route the first time.

[Jabba]

Well, I said 200. I have two. Winter

[Juliana Chauncey]

when? Cuckoo bird or you?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Someone had a panic, but that was because of me. Technically speaking.

[Jabba]

Yeah. You were uncomfortable. Now, we did the miles all the way to the end, but just didn't do the entire route the way it was designed.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We did an alternate.

[Jabba]

Yeah, it sure did. Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You finished, but we finished with the.

[Jabba]

What?

[Juliana Chauncey]

The Jordan Trail.

[Jabba]

Oh, yeah, of course.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Any other internationals?

[Jabba]

That's actually the only international trail I've hiked. Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. Well, there's still things.

[Jabba]

There's more. There's more quitters out there.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Still more to quit.

[Jabba]

Listen, I'm. There's one thing I can be sure of. There's more quitters coming. That's just. There's no denying that, like, when you're just all volume. There will be. There will be quits in the future as well. And to.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think the sentiment that you're putting on. There's no shame in that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I don't.

[Jabba]

I have zero shame.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I also would never shame anyone for quitting anything. Unless. Asterisks. It's Java.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Sure.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Obviously, because of. Obviously, there's a deficit that I'm still working on repaying.

[Jabba]

You mean because you broke your face open?

[Juliana Chauncey]

You broke my face open.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, let's start there. What happened?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do you know the amount of times that people think I have something on my face? And they're like, you got something there,

[Jabba]

and you do have something there.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Is it a lighter color than the rest of my skin tone? And it goes from there to there, and they're like, yeah, like, that's actually a scar. I can put makeup on it. It stays the same tone. And sometimes when I smile a certain way, it hurts because I think that there's still gravel stuck in it because I never got it formally checked.

[Jabba]

There was no gravel. We were on a sidewalk.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Look at it.

[Jabba]

It was full concrete.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Good find. There's concrete, and I don't mind rocks. Look at it.

[Jabba]

Look at it. No, I can see it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Come Close. With my glasses?

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Are those the right prescription for you?

[Jabba]

Absolutely not. I have perfect eyesight. I'm looking through. I'm looking totally moronically through this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Neither of you could humor me and lean in a bit before saying, I can see it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I mean, I see it.

[Jabba]

Oh, my God.

[Zach Badger Davis]

How close do you want me to get?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Enough to give me some sense of. It's not that noticeable, by the way.

[Jabba]

I just want to go ahead and say.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I was like, yeah, I see it. You're black person. But I can see Chaunce thinks that

[Jabba]

I'm the one that did it. But, like, trust me, it was her.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Did Elise yell at me or you?

[Jabba]

Elite, what does Elise have to do with this?

[Juliana Chauncey]

She was the one that was most sober witnessing it. Did she yell at me or you?

[Jabba]

For what?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Dropping me on concrete?

[Jabba]

First of all, Elise is definitely gonna side with you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Call her.

[Jabba]

What's the caller for? I'm telling you, she's gonna side with you. Like, that's just how that's gonna go.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's like 3am in Portugal right now.

[Jabba]

Also.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

All I'm trying to say is Chance just broke her own glasses on. Just hanging out on her first drink tonight there.

[Juliana Chauncey]

They're four years old.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, think back.

[Jabba]

You're a big girl.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You look like a nice man.

[Jabba]

Over my body because you said, would

[Juliana Chauncey]

you like me to carry you?

[Jabba]

I don't know if that was the exact.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's what Elise told me.

[Jabba]

Yeah, well, first of all, I was prepared to. And you jumpy asleep, and you jumped all the way over me, and you caught just my head with your crotch, and you went face first into the ground.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't think so.

[Jabba]

You don't remember it?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I think that, like, I mean, come on. You're like. You're a big, strong man. You could.

[Jabba]

Yeah, exactly. Counter the jump with my neck with

[Juliana Chauncey]

your entire balance, with your however many pounds.

[Jabba]

I got low. Cause you're a tiny little girl, and I got as low as I possibly could. Too low. You underestimated my pounds and you overestimated your jump.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I overestimated your strength.

[Jabba]

You can't. Okay.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Thought I could.

[Jabba]

I don't.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I thought you could.

[Jabba]

I'm not injecting horse steroids in my neck. I thought you lift women.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I thought you could take a small woman jumping on you and holding your footing.

[Jabba]

I could if she could.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Now I know you can't. At a glance, one would think you could do that. It's fine if you can't. Everyone Everyone has their faults. Everyone has.

[Jabba]

Just tuning in.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I just thought.

[Jabba]

What we're talking about.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I thought too highly of you at the time.

[Jabba]

We went to Wisconsin on Wisconsin taxpayer dollars.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. True.

[Jabba]

To do a live podcast. Was it the first live podcast ever for backpacker radio?

[Zach Badger Davis]

I believe it was. Yeah.

[Jabba]

Well, we went in with a bang, Came in with, like, a lion, and out with a.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You're no longer allowed.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Here's a question. Has anyone ever been back to the state of Wisconsin since?

[Jabba]

I have not.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I have not, no.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, good.

[Jabba]

The state hasn't forbade us to come back.

[Juliana Chauncey]

They also haven't encouraged it.

[Jabba]

What is the name of the bar, the brewery that we are all banned from now?

[Juliana Chauncey]

It was your fault.

[Jabba]

You don't even know. First of all, I just want to set the tone here. Zach made it a point to get us hammered. Hammered.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Hammered. He put a Bloody Mary in front of my face when I was blacked out and told me the old couple in front of me bought it and if I didn't drink it, I would let them down.

[Jabba]

There was a moment towards the end of the weekend where Zach's like, this is all my fault. I'm so sorry. He's like. He's like, is my intention of getting us all this drug is my fault. So sorry. But, like, I was like, you know, it can be your fault, but it's all of our faults. The negative, including yours.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The negative email we got the next week that Zach forwarded where he was like, I had. Granted, we're all to blame here. I was like, yeah, I had to.

[Jabba]

I had to call the Ice Age Trail Alliance.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Did you?

[Jabba]

Well, I felt compelled to.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You have to call and apologize.

[Jabba]

I felt compelled to. What was that? What was our contact's name?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Clobber. Dan's.

[Jabba]

Luke.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Luke Clobber Dance.

[Jabba]

Luke was the man. He gave me my first Chili Willy.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Which, by the way, is why I don't feel.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's what we said. We were like, it's also their fault.

[Jabba]

Like, he got. He picked me up in the airport, drove me to a, like, backwoods bar before linking up with you guys. And he gave me. We did, like, drank multiple drinks there, including giving me a Chili Willy. And if you don't know what a Chili Willy is. Where you snort vodka.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right?

[Jabba]

Snort vodka.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I also want the listener to assess whose fault this was. Is it mine? The guy who sits here quietly watching you guys? No one told you guys literally both just said it was my fault.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I said. When you emailed me, you said it was none of my fault. Okay, who got the Bloody Mary? Fine. You want to talk about that part?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Hit the back 30 seconds. Twice. You had, like, 14 drinks. If you're going to blame one drink on me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, I mean, I've never said I've been fair.

[Jabba]

No, no. We're just trying to put a little extra blame over it. I would blame more of the drinks.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I would blame more of the drinks. I'm being locked in the kitchen with Jabba in a woolly mammoth.

[Jabba]

I was a mastodon.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Fine. But we were also.

[Jabba]

I was in a mastodon class.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Regardless of what you were, you can agree that we were locked in a kitchen, not allowed to come out.

[Jabba]

I don't remember you being in the kitchen at all. I thought you were on the podcast.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, me and you were locked in the kitchen. For some reason, something was happening. We were standing because we weren't allowed to leave. We were waiting for. We were waiting for a moment. Yes, we were. We weren't allowed to le locked because you were. You were hidden.

[Jabba]

The listeners can only hear what you're telling them. We were not locked in.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The kitchen door wasn't locked, but we were told not to come out yet.

[Jabba]

There we go.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And so we stood there and we had shots. And we're like, I guess we'll just do shots until we can come out.

[Jabba]

I was double fisting until the cows came home.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm just glad we could clear the record that this was not my fault because you guys have already admitted to voluntarily taking shots.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, I. I'm not saying it's all your fault, but. But the Bloody Mary that you told me, the kind old couple got me,

[Zach Badger Davis]

it was not me.

[Jabba]

I was literally.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I was literally bought it.

[Jabba]

I. I was.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You ordered it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You can run back and look at the tape.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You've admitted this.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't think that's true.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm only asking for accountability on one of the 14 drinks.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, I'm gonna say I don't remember.

[Jabba]

None of us actually remember eight years

[Zach Badger Davis]

ago, the drink order pattern at that time, but I do remember hosting a podcast for the duration of a live podcast. I wasn't at the bar ordering drinks at any point during that to the

[Juliana Chauncey]

listeners that are scavenging through episodes looking for your favorite Chaunce moment, please find the moment where he admits. Because we talked about it after it. We talked about it on air, and I said, well, you should be at Patreon. I said, well, the lovely. The lovely couple that was old in the front, they got it for me and I Couldn't say no. And Zach goes. I got that for you. It's on air. It is on air. And it's in the Internet, and things on the Internet never die.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'll bet you a shot that that didn't happen.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Fine. Fine.

[Jabba]

Same.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Fine. Yeah, I. I bet you I'm not gonna look for it, but I bet someone could.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay, good.

[Jabba]

Good. Great.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, now that we've buried the hatchet on that, I think maybe, possibly.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So we have our interview with Jabba today.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So we'll do the intro now.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We have. I already read the intro.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I know. I'm kidding.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm just saying we haven't, like, gotten to anything.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We do it. Rachel has, like, seven questions here, and I think some of these. This will be enough to get us through the podcast. I want you per Rachel's direction.

[Jabba]

I've never even met this woman.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You never met Rachel?

[Jabba]

Not once.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Your loss.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Rachel's great.

[Jabba]

I believe you. Yeah, but how does she know me enough to have seven questions for me?

[Juliana Chauncey]

She knows everything. She's smarter than all of us. You don't deserve.

[Jabba]

So, by the way, we probably met.

[Zach Badger Davis]

At least describe your first meeting with one. Another.

[Jabba]

Chance. And I. Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do you want me to go first?

[Jabba]

Well, actually, I know exactly where it was. It was just north of.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It was at Timberline.

[Jabba]

Well, it was not at Timberline Lodge. It was just north of Timberline Lodge. You were hiking.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Nope.

[Jabba]

Yes.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I met you guys at the lodge.

[Jabba]

Nope.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yep. Because I hadn't gone north before I had gotten to the lodge. You probably wouldn't remember because me and Zach high fived. We talked about the breakfast buffet. You wouldn't really interact much because you were sitting in a chair pouting about the road walk you were gonna have to do and trying to figure out a way around it because you didn't want to skip miles, and so you barely gave me the time of the day.

[Jabba]

Whatever. So clearly somebody is remembering way better than me or way differently than me. I don't.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I couldn't have gotten north of Timberland.

[Jabba]

What were.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What were your vibes of Jabo at that point?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, my God. No thoughts whatsoever. It was just like, hey, that's. That's a person that's hiking with Z.

[Jabba]

Oh, by the way, definitely thoughts. Cuz you remember everything, and I don't even remember what you're talking about.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's not my problem because I remember I met Zach there, and then he was hiking with his friend and your Ginger Pew forever. Yeah, just like an avatar when they do that with their little ponies.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's like Velcro.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. No, it was just, like, Zach's hiking partner is, like, not embracing fun at the moment because he's worried about a road walk. I would say the most. The first.

[Jabba]

I don't remember any of this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The first meaningful time I met Jabba was our episode we did in my basement. Yeah, I remember that podcast episode.

[Jabba]

I do remember that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And when I remember about that one,

[Zach Badger Davis]

that was the second time I was

[Jabba]

gonna say that was not the first episode.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I didn't know what. Whatever. I didn't know that was the first episode. Yeah, it was in her basement. Yeah, we debated.

[Jabba]

That was the debated.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Number one.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We debated mountain bikes on the at just to trigger people.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, you got to be there for chances. First and last episode.

[Juliana Chauncey]

This is not my last episode.

[Jabba]

Well, it is right now. See if you make it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

He mentioned murdering. I wasn't sure.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Good hands. So, anyway, so I. All I knew was I was hosting these two, like, older men in my house. And, like, what do old men want? I don't know. So I went out and I bought a bunch of, like, craft beers from Argonauts so that I wouldn't seem, like, poor and stuff.

[Jabba]

I was 35, by the way.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, I was younger than you are now.

[Jabba]

So what are you saying? You're an old woman. Yeah, old woman. Eight.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I was 32.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Eight.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, I'm doing it.

[Jabba]

I get it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I get it. I get it. I'm not stupid.

[Jabba]

So you're an old woman now by your.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Standards.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do you not. Did you miss the part? I'm leaving the podcast because I'm washed up and trying to find a suburban fence.

[Jabba]

I love suburban fence. You're just an old.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Anyway, so I bought all these craft beers because I was like, God forbid they come over and think that I'm an uncultured swine that doesn't know beer. And I put them all in the basement fridge so when we were in the basement, I could act like they just lived down there nonchalantly. Be like, oh, would you like any beer? We happen to have all these varieties. And you guys looked at them all

[Jabba]

and you go, do you have any Coors Light?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. Do you have anything cheap?

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think we drank Natty Light, actually.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, you. As you did.

[Jabba]

So you are on culture Swine had Natty Light in the house.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because that was for us. It wasn't for guests.

[Jabba]

Daddy Lights. What I had when I was, like, 17.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right. I didn't think respectable adults who. Businesses would want to. 27. I don't know. Wow. But, like, possibly younger. No, 26.

[Jabba]

Wow.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And so you didn't drink any of it. And then for the next several months. Several months. I had to work my way through these craft beers as a girl who doesn't even like IPAs. And I was. This is the stupidest purchase I ever

[Jabba]

did try to impress anyone. I love this story.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't really like it. There's nothing notable about you at that time, but that's the part that sticks out. Was that, like, I spent money I didn't have. I worked a photoshopper job for 40k a year. I had no money to spend on anything. And I bought, like, three cases of craft beer to try to, like, seem presentable.

[Jabba]

Remembers a lot more about this than I do. I remember almost none of that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I have a really good memory when it comes to very insignificant intent. Details.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's called being a woman.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Say that with your chest into the mic.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I said it loud enough.

[Jabba]

They heard me say that. Loud.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Paulie, clip that.

[Jabba]

Yeah. Polly, clip it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Am I trying to burn this down when I leave, or are you.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That was a funny joke that I made. Thank you very much.

[Jabba]

It's kind of true.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We're, what, 20 minutes in.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Do you recall any other notable chaunce interactions from the early days?

[Jabba]

I just. It's all. It's all bloody face for me. It's all bloody face. It honestly is. We've had so many pods. I like. None of them are like. They. They don't all stand out as individually. I just. We've been doing this a while, y'. All. We've been doing. I don't know. We're all washed up.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Nothing notable.

[Jabba]

Insignificant.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Over eight years.

[Jabba]

Yeah. As a man, I don't remember the insignificant.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Great. Good.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right. I want to jump back and forth because I put a call out through my Instagram.

[Jabba]

Hold on, hold on. I need to back up for a second to be clear.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yep.

[Jabba]

If I went back and I listened to our podcast again, all of them, I'd remember a thousand more things about our time together, you know, help your case. There's no case to be made. I'm just telling you. Like, you've never had to jog your memory to remember something. You serious?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Steel trap up here.

[Jabba]

Clear with insignificant things. Yeah. Got it. Noted. And this podcast, episode one is insignificant to her, by the way.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I was gonna say, you know where you fall then.

[Jabba]

Yeah. It's so insignificant that I'm. What is this episode 28? Like, I don't even know.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Have I invited you for any of them?

[Jabba]

Irrelevant. Have you been sitting right there for all of them?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. The paycheck keeps coming.

[Jabba]

Well, hell, yeah. Until it doesn't come anymore.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Until it doesn't come. That was my choice, not yours. As much as you would have liked.

[Jabba]

Oh, yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Should have pushed you off the boat.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm just gonna let the commentary keep running before I ask the next question.

[Jabba]

I was gonna just stop.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yep.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

All right.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right. Well, we're gonna jump back and forth. Like I was saying, I put a call out through Instagram for people to give me prompts for fun questions or debate prompts or riddles or really anything that could jog a fun conversation between the most heated rivalry in all of backpacking podcasts.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But the least gay.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The least gay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If you're quoting Heated Rivalry.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Oh, whoa.

[Jabba]

I was like, what is happening?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Neither of you seen it? It's incredible. Oh, my God. What is he talking about? It's a gay hockey love show. It's great. I just talked about it in the last episode. Yeah, you guys both need to watch television.

[Jabba]

I don't know what's happening right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You have no. It hasn't crossed your radar at least once. You've not seen a targeted ad? You've not seen. Not even.

[Jabba]

Not even one.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Nothing. You have no idea what show is.

[Jabba]

I've heard of the term heated rivalry having nothing to do with what you're talking about.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Sounds like a lie.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Heated rivalry predates gay tv.

[Jabba]

By that's what I'm trying to say a lot.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, I don't mean predates. It's only one season's out.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, what I'm saying is the phrase

[Jabba]

heated rivalry has been around. Show is borrowing a hundred years.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I thought you meant the show predates gay tv. I was like, it's been, like, out for less than a year.

[Jabba]

Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Shant is watching hockey right now, by the way.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, it's a period break break.

[Jabba]

Yeah. Chance is watching period break hockey right now.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Which teams?

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's the Sabers and the Canadiens.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Sounds like more gay hockey to me. Anyways,

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not. No, I'm not offended. I just didn't hear it. I wanted. If you're gonna burn me, let me hear it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, I wasn't burning you. I was just.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What was it?

[Jabba]

He was just making a joke about your joke. Actually, it wasn't even a joke.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The listener will repeat it to you. Yeah, gotta keep up.

[Jabba]

Ch.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's not a period break. There's four minutes left.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We got an excellent question from former guest of the podcast, the one and only and patreon supporter Austin McDaniel at Austin MC on Instagram per pound, who's the stronger back factor, Jabba or Chance by whatever metric seems to fit. Max miles per day, longest hike, total miles, heaviest carry, best planner, for example, chance is 110 pounds versus Jabba is 220. I think he's just guessing.

[Jabba]

It's a good guess. I'm definitely more than that right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He's correct.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Does he hike twice as fast far total blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's up to you guys to debate.

[Jabba]

I'm going to let John start because anything I say is going to be ripped for misogyny.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Anytime you've done 50, 60 miles, you've quit the trail, Right? Like your Colorado Trail F KT.

[Jabba]

Not true at all.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Consistently 60 mile days.

[Jabba]

Consistently. That's a different thing than what you just said.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, consistently.

[Jabba]

Okay, now it's just consistently.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jabba]

So every time I've done consistently tried

[Juliana Chauncey]

to do those days. The one time, every time.

[Jabba]

Are we talking about right now?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because he said, do you.

[Jabba]

How many times have you consistently try to do 50 plus miles a day? Let me ask you that. How many times have you tried to consistently do over 50 miles a day ever?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yelling doesn't ignore the question.

[Jabba]

I'll answer your question, but I'm just. If you're gonna ask that question to me, it's gotta be coming right back to you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We're actually both ANSWERING Andrew S. McDaniel's question and he had asked.

[Jabba]

You're asking me a different question than what he said. No, no, no.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He said, said because you're double the weight, do you do double the miles? And so if I was averaging 25 to 30s on the PCT, I'm asking, do you average 50 to 60s? This is. That would be double stupid thing. He brought up 220 compared to 110. He said, you're twice as much. Do you do twice as much stuff? I'm asking. I'm going through his question. I listened to his points.

[Jabba]

You're insane.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm answering the next question.

[Jabba]

What you're saying is logical at all.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Not exactly what he asked. Did he not say 220 over 110?

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's double max miles per day, longest, high, total miles, heavy. He said, there's a lot of different finding the quote.

[Jabba]

Chance. You're insane.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I literally just saw it. For example, chance is 110 versus Jabba. 220. Does he take twice as fast? Slash far, slash total slash through.

[Jabba]

No. Your question was.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You don't get to preview the other question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

220. Does he hike twice as much? That was literally what I just asked.

[Jabba]

You're talking about our separate weight versus how many times he's talking about it. Shut up for a second.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He's talking about it.

[Jabba]

You're asking something that makes no sense.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I didn't ask it.

[Jabba]

You're literally asking something he's not asking. You're asking me how many times. Just shut up for a second. You're asking me how many times I've quit hiking doing 50 to 60 miles a day.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I've said that's what you just asked me. I've said the. Did she not just ask me that? No. Yes. Yes. Yes, Because. Oh, yes, because the only times I've known you to do that many consistent miles a day have been on FKT attempts. So I'm asking, have there been trails where you've consistently done that? Because he's asking if you do twice as many miles as me. So I'm just wondering if you have.

[Jabba]

Okay. How many trails have you done where you have averaged through that the. The entire duration of your hike? Over 25 miles a day, every single day?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Probably not.

[Jabba]

Okay, so what you're talking about is something that doesn't even remotely compare.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, no, cuz anything he's asking. No, cuz Oregon and Washington, I had to do that.

[Jabba]

Okay, that's not a trail that. You did that consistently. The trail that you and I met on Zach and I averaged 26 miles per day. Actually over 26 miles per day for 100 days.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's not double.

[Jabba]

Okay, I'm just telling you what we did for that trail for an entire trail.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right? Okay, fine.

[Jabba]

You don't have a single trail trail or You've done that one time.

[Juliana Chauncey]

A single trail to whomst someone could do all of Oregon or all of Washington. That's not a full trail. Yeah, when you're looking at someone, we're

[Jabba]

talking about you and me, but the

[Juliana Chauncey]

time that I was on it.

[Jabba]

Help her. She is out of her mind right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yelling when I speak doesn't diminish because it's asinine.

[Jabba]

What you're actually trying to.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It doesn't make your point.

[Jabba]

Listen, you're not comparing anything that's actually remotely equal.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do you want to hear what I have to say? You want to yell words?

[Jabba]

Go for it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Thank you. I'll take that.

[Jabba]

Yeah, go for it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If we're looking at those two states, that's a significant amount of miles. If I average 20 to 30 throughout that amount of time, I would say that that amount of time doing that mileage is a longer amount of time than you have done at double the mileage. I'm not saying you're a. I'm not saying you can't hike. I'm not saying like that. I'm saying for the sake of his specific questions, which was, do you hike twice as far based on 220 being twice of 110. I am asking scientifically, have you at any point done that? And you're just screaming. That sounds like a no to me, but okay. There's easier ways to get to that answer.

[Jabba]

Okay, so make the point that you want to make. Make the point you want to actually make.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm stronger.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but make the point.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That was it.

[Jabba]

You. Okay, cool. She's stronger. Great.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's incomparative. Yeah.

[Jabba]

Totally comparative.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Is this triggering? Would you.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Would you estimate that you have more than twice as many total miles?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Easily. No. Easily. I thought he was asking me. I would, but. But I would say if you were to take our pack weights and you were to, like, what Austin's saying, if you were to proportionately scale them to our weights, I would think mine would be a higher proportion of my weight. Weight. If you were to scale our mileage to our weights, what the actual question is asking, I would say my ratio is higher. I would say on all of those statistics, mine would be higher because I weigh less and are like. He said he averaged 26. That's not. There's nothing wrong with that. That's impressive. But, like, so, like, I can too. So, like, what. What. What are you doing with the extra 110?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Have you factored in that Tom has very heavy genitalium, which might just be weighing him down?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No.

[Jabba]

And by the way, the. The weight of my body actually works against me. I mean, I'm just like. You think, like, strength is a thing, but, like, we're talking endurance.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You got really mad there.

[Jabba]

Yeah, I got mad because. What. The point you were making was absolutely, like, illogical to the questions he was asking. It's completely illogical.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Literally, what the screen said verbatim.

[Jabba]

I'm not gonna be able to make sense to you because you don't have the sense to be made too.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We can go on to the next question. Literally, I'm gonna go Ty. You both lost.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't think so.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No. I'm sure the commenters Will weigh in on that.

[Jabba]

Oh, that'll be fun.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Start yelling whenever I disagree with something.

[Jabba]

We are drinking alcohol.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This one is from racial.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, great.

[Zach Badger Davis]

How has your friendship changed over time?

[Juliana Chauncey]

We used to be nice to each other.

[Jabba]

Did you?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think before we knew each other,

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think on the first episode, you guys were friendly.

[Jabba]

Friendly.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The more we've gotten to know each other, the meaner we've gotten.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I do want to say that it's become more friendly. Hostile. It's become more hostile post Wisconsin.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, but. No.

[Jabba]

Oh, that's definitely a delineating factor.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yes, but I wouldn't say that was the catalyst list.

[Jabba]

What's the catalyst, then?

[Juliana Chauncey]

If you have a. I haven't figured it out yet, but I do think it was more. I think the balance was more balanced for a while after that. I would say this is like a past year where we've gotten more.

[Jabba]

No chance.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You don't think we've gotten more hostile over the past year?

[Jabba]

Oh, no, no, no, no. This hostility has been around.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Really?

[Jabba]

What do you think the trigger is just for fun?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, it is fun. It is fun.

[Jabba]

There's no real hate. Except for the choking I want to do to you right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's just like a fun way to burn off stress, you know?

[Jabba]

Hell, yeah. We're talking about stress only right now.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I hope the listener picks up that something that is very obvious to me that you guys are just Josh in the entire time.

[Jabba]

Yeah, like 98.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If I actually.

[Jabba]

Strong, though.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If I actually hated him, I would just be like, can he not come anymore?

[Jabba]

Yeah, that's true.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Would rather not be here.

[Jabba]

So Zach would just be like, no, he's still coming.

[Juliana Chauncey]

There is something. There is. Well, that's an assumption. There is something very fun about being able to let off steam by just, like, ruthlessly ripping on someone that you know will never.

[Jabba]

Yeah. How many other guests do you get to do this with?

[Zach Badger Davis]

None.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Other women do you get to do this with?

[Zach Badger Davis]

I want.

[Jabba]

I do want to say, actually, all of them.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think that Jabba is the only one that gives you grief of any kind, aside from me occasionally. But there's no one else in this podcast. Fear.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, there shouldn't be.

[Jabba]

Well, let's put it this way.

[Juliana Chauncey]

For what?

[Jabba]

What?

[Zach Badger Davis]

But you give it to me pretty consistently. I don't care.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm fine with it. I can tell you.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't care.

[Jabba]

Here's the deal. If it was just Zach and I, he might be the. The subject of my ire.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You couldn't do what I knew to you. Vice versa. Because you employ me.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's right.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So if you were to do that to me, power dynamics, I would have to go to my HR rep, Jabba, and complain about you. Yeah, but for me to do it to you, it's more fun.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It is fun.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It breaks the mold of the power dynamics.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's right.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And the people love it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

But it dissolves the patriarchy.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If you were. If were to do what he does back to me, I would. I wouldn't even be need to move to North Carolina. I just be like, yeah.

[Jabba]

How does it feel to move to a state that I've already lived in for four years?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Didn't base any decisions off of you.

[Jabba]

How does it feel, Johnson?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No different than it felt 10 seconds before you said it.

[Jabba]

I've been all up in that state before you. What do you want?

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right. In traditional backpack radio fashion, we are not recording right now. No, I'm just kidding, by the way.

[Jabba]

I literally was ready to walk out.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Polly, will you please clip the.

[Jabba]

No.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I was like, at least we've got it on camera. It hasn't happened since Akuna.

[Jabba]

Did that happen on Akuna?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, we recorded the whole episode. And then Zach was like, I forgot to hit record. How much time do you have? Could we do it again?

[Jabba]

Did you record then again? That poor fucking bastard.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He was so nice about it.

[Jabba]

He's the nicest guy in all and

[Juliana Chauncey]

he's never brought it up. So since he's the nicest, he hasn't held a grudge.

[Jabba]

Why should he

[Juliana Chauncey]

like low hanging fruit?

[Zach Badger Davis]

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[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, what else?

[Zach Badger Davis]

We're gonna. We're gonna flip back to some of the listener questions. This one's mostly for Java.

[Jabba]

Great. Shut up, John.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This is from Colton. Plice. P L E I S S. I don't know how you pronounce that.

[Jabba]

Please, please.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The placebo effect. He wants your input put. This has been a running debate in our podcasting sphere for the last year. Plus, no, this is the gas station bathroom. So.

[Jabba]

Excuse me.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The hypothetical is for one full year, you can only go to the bathroom in gas station bathrooms.

[Jabba]

Oh. First of all, I definitely have been posed this. I don't think on here, but it might have been on here. But I definitely have been posed this with y' all before for. Okay, this is a no brainer to

[Zach Badger Davis]

me for one full year if you go P1 this.

[Jabba]

Actually, I think. I think you've asked this to me on this.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's possible.

[Jabba]

I don't remember, but I'm ready to answer it again and be very adamant.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You get $1 million for every single piss or bowel movement for a single year. Has to be in a gas station. If you make it 364 days and you pee outside because it's an emergency, you get $0. What are you doing?

[Jabba]

I'm out.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Idiots.

[Jabba]

Yeah, I'm not an idiot.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm with you.

[Jabba]

I'm with me, too. It's a no brainer.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Why?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Competition.

[Jabba]

I don't think it's worth my trouble for a million dollars. Even if it's tax free. God damn. She asked for Benadryl before and we didn't give it to her, that's for sure.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I just sent her a screenshot of mixing Benadryl with alcohol. And the Internet is.

[Jabba]

Oh, it's just like you're. No. You will die. Yeah, it's bad. One Benadryl pill. Yeah. Like, honestly, that's such an inconvenience. Like, you don't. You're not really playing it out. And I'm looking at Juliana. Chauncey, you're not really playing it out. You're really just thinking about the million dollars more. So you are thinking about what the minute to minute, minute, hour to hour, day to day life is going to be like when all you can do is use a gas station. I don't even care if you Live next door to the gas station. I don't even want to do it. Then I don't. It ain't worth my troubles.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And that's. The less people that want to do it, the less competition I have. When someone with a spare million has to pick someone to do this challenge,

[Jabba]

this is a totally different scenario.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm in. I want to do it. I will do it. It. I'm in for the Millie. You don't have to be in. You don't have to be in. No. No. Then it's just me, and I will do it.

[Jabba]

Really think. You're not thinking it's real.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay.

[Jabba]

I really do.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay.

[Jabba]

You know what it is? Ch.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What is it?

[Jabba]

You're like the little sister I never had.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, it feels that way.

[Jabba]

Totally. And. And because I now have it, you're going to get it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, that's why I think we're overdue for a fist bite.

[Jabba]

Yeah, I totally. You. You could punch right in the face. Yeah, and I'm gonna bully your dad. Dad, if you're listening to me, we'll be friends later. But I'm gonna bully you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You can't punch me back and bully my dad.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Who would win in an arm wrestling competition? But Chance gets to use both arms.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I get to use my dominant arm, which is my left. No one is a lefty, so they always.

[Jabba]

Wait, you think you can beat me in a lefty competition right now? Are you crazy?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Backpack radio on YouTube.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I've never worked out recently. Recently.

[Jabba]

Are you ready?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I don't feel. I don't actually. Hold on. I don't like the.

[Zach Badger Davis]

By the way, if I could wager. If I could wager a bet on this, I would put all of my money on one outcome.

[Jabba]

Same.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's going to be me going all of it through a table.

[Jabba]

All of it. You ready, Lefty?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not ready. Stop asking if I'm ready.

[Jabba]

I'm ready. You get as ready as you want to be. Are you ready? No, I'm a lefty. No one can handle a lefty. No, I'm talking about.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I didn't say no one can handle lefty. I said no one prefers to do it that way.

[Jabba]

Okay, sure.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Hold on.

[Jabba]

I gotta listen. I'll even. I'll even. Not even grip. I. I won't even grip your hand.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, shut up.

[Jabba]

I'm serious. You ready? No. All right, go. I mean, that's it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's not touching. It didn't touch.

[Jabba]

Okay, I'll just wait.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right. You're Gonna have to go to The Backpack Radio's YouTube to see the outcome

[Jabba]

of that one, by the way. All I did was let go. Just use two hands.

[Juliana Chauncey]

She fell over under the crouch.

[Jabba]

She's in a puddle. Anyways, Chaunce is out. I'm in. And I definitely had you already.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If anyone wants to know how I broke my face, picture a trust fall like that where he fucking lets you fall. The man doesn't care. Send me a new scarf.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It looks like your nose.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He's like, hey, trust fall. And then you fucking fall. And he's like, why'd you trust anyways?

[Jabba]

Little sister energy, big time over here.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Into the Lucy and the football.

[Jabba]

All right.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Oh, that was fun.

[Jabba]

I don't know what the stakes were, but her face or her elbow are part of it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

O.

[Jabba]

Next question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, yeah. What's Patreon?

[Jabba]

Right.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. Where do we go from there?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Here's one. This is a racial question. What did Jabba think about all the people coming to Chance's defense after the guy stuff? Episode? Episode?

[Jabba]

I have no clue.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, I don't know if that is a slight mischaracterization of what happened. I think this was the.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's assuming Jabba stays in the loop with, like, feedback about our podcast.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Juliana Chauncey]

This was, like, a stretch.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I assume this is in relation to the. Would you rather encounter a bear?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, no, no. But what I'm saying is this is under the assumption that he actually kept up with that.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, I don't. I. I'm not gonna.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't even know if he ever saw the clip.

[Jabba]

Oh, I've seen the clip for sure. So here. That's not my problem.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Kiss it.

[Jabba]

Oh, sure.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No.

[Jabba]

Absolutely not. Yeah. You're a wolf in sheep's clothing. Sheep's clothing. No, stop. So here's. Here's. Here's my. Here's my. Here's my thing with that y. So I got no problem with Anyone coming to CH's defense, but chance was supposed to be a dude. Dude. You were supposed to be a dude. You were in a beard, and it was a dude episode.

[Juliana Chauncey]

How does this affect the opinion you gave?

[Jabba]

It doesn't affect my opinion whatsoever. But what it. What the context of the question was, how would a dude answer this question? Not how we think a woman should answer this question. Question. So we answered the question as men, and you were supposed to also be a guy, which you were not the entire time.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Well, I will say I. In a subsequent episode. I came to your defense because the question Verbatim was, which would you rather encounter?

[Jabba]

Not if I were a woman.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's not. Even if you were a different person? Yeah, even if I would have as a man. It was the. The thing that I took issue with is it was a. The way it was presented is. It was a very individual question, for sure.

[Jabba]

So I have no. I have. I. There's nothing about my answer that I would change. Not a thing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I also got some feedback on like not pushing harder about like, like the, like, hey, maybe we're missing the point. Or hey, maybe like this isn't worded in the way that like, you know, like, could she have pushed back and like clarified or done something different? Maybe my feedback to that was if we're inviting someone on a podcast and we are asking them to give us their opinion on something. Opinions aren't truth versus fiction. It's not truth or lies. An opinion is what you personally feel about something. And so I can think he's wrong and I can disagree and I can be like, he took that in a different way than I did. But at the end of the day, we invited him on here and asked his opinion on something. I'm never gonna ask someone their opinion and then shit on them for sharing it. I'll just sit here and be like, interesting. I don't think the same.

[Jabba]

The pretense of that show was a dude episode. Cause you had had. At least as far as I knew, you had had an all female episode.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You gave an authentic answer to you and people love it. And that's fine.

[Jabba]

That's not what I'm. Yeah, I'm always gonna give an authentic answer to me. But the point of the episode was when you invited Cuckoo and I on was that this is a dude episode, which is why Chaunce was wearing a beard.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think the feedback was more the. Maybe the.

[Jabba]

It was inflammatory.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It was like the shock that you both showed at the audacity of the question. Gave off a essence of we can't relate at all. And I'm not saying that you can't relate at all. I'm just saying it was like. It was the essence of.

[Jabba]

No, it was. The audacity part of it was. Was your retort and how you. I was so kind how you perceived our answers.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Did I call you a dickhead? Did I tell you you were wrong?

[Jabba]

I didn't say that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I didn't say any of that. I literally sat back and let you sit. So what do you mean how I responded?

[Jabba]

Well, you were trying to basically get you to Clarify. No, you were trying to come back towards both mostly cuckoo at the time, because I was more of a cuckoo answer. It was more like you were trying to tell him what was wrong about his answer. And his answer was, as you said, opinionated to him. And under the pretense of it being a dude episode, I would argue I didn't do that. Okay, well, you can pull it all up and listen to it later, but that's why people were coming to your defense is because you were kind of being, like, giving the. You were giving the, you know, the devil's advocate side of it, which from you would be the woman's side of it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But I wasn't giving, like, a fallen bird come to my defense.

[Jabba]

No one said that either.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, you're saying people were coming to your defense because you were saying that

[Jabba]

he said women were coming to your fence. Or. Or Rachel was saying. I'm sorry, excuse me. Rachel said that when people were coming to your defense, they weren't.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But they weren't defending like you.

[Jabba]

You know, I'm just going off of what Rachel said, and the question is,

[Zach Badger Davis]

what did you ever think about all the people coming to Chaunce's defense after the guy?

[Jabba]

And I don't know about any of that, for what it's worth. And I'm only, like, hypothesizing why that was. Was the case, and they were. They were hyp. The hypothesis that I'm coming up with is probably because of the way you were coming at cuckoo, slash how we were answering that question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, let me. Let me context. They weren't coming to my defense in the way of.

[Jabba]

So Rachel's wrong is what you're saying.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, you.

[Jabba]

Because I didn't. I didn't pose that question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You haven't read any of the feedback, so I'm trying to fill you in

[Jabba]

on what Rachel did. And Rachel's asking the question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Explain.

[Jabba]

So is Rachel wrong or not?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Can I finish a sentence?

[Jabba]

I'd love for you to finish the factual statement.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The thing that they were coming to the defense. If I can get to the point. Can you let me.

[Jabba]

Happy. Happy to let you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. If I. They were coming to my defense. Not in a way of. I was. Can you shut the up for a second and let me speak?

[Jabba]

I just want a straight answer.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Like. Like. Reasons like this. Reasons like this. Because I can't get a word in. They were coming to my defense. Offense. Not because I was like, oh, my God, I'm so hurt by this. They were coming to my offense because I was asking probing questions to try to see if there were different angles we could consider. And it felt like there was some sort of mental block around seeing it from any other angle. I didn't need defending because I'm a. A hurt victim of anything. I was an interviewer asking a question more. They were coming to my defense in terms of they understood that you did not get the angle I was trying to get you.

[Jabba]

No, it sounds like they didn't get the angle that the answer was being asked to the person.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It sounds like individual not actively listening, and you're just waiting for your turn to explain yourself. So.

[Jabba]

Sure. Great.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You want to have a drink?

[Jabba]

I've been drinking this whole time. I've also shotgun a beer. Like a not.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I didn't know you did that.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Hold, please.

[Jabba]

You going to piss?

[Juliana Chauncey]

He's going home.

[Jabba]

All right.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, why?

[Zach Badger Davis]

In this particular scenario, we're gonna replace the female on this with a different female and the male with a different male, and the loser has to drink for their representation.

[Juliana Chauncey]

How much?

[Jabba]

I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Just.

[Jabba]

We'll go, like, who are you replacing? What with?

[Juliana Chauncey]

It says Zach and Jess on the board.

[Zach Badger Davis]

He wants to change on the wheel. There is.

[Jabba]

So it's us, Me and Chuck.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, it also says. Oh, yeah, but if it lands on Jabba. It's still Jabba. There is one.

[Jabba]

There's not another chance on there, though.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The Jabba takes the Jabba.

[Jabba]

Zach.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Sure, I'll do it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, whatever.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yep. We'll call it a half beer.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Sure. That's almost.

[Jabba]

So. I. I'm. I'm Zach, she's Jess, and you're me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Y.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, my God. Fuck you. That's what he gets for ch.

[Zach Badger Davis]

By the way. This is how it goes every single time. Every single time.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Time.

[Jabba]

Half beer.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And by the way, that's a bigger beer than us. Hold on.

[Jabba]

Is that a half beer? Let me feel it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Let me feel it. Let us feel it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I literally just opened it.

[Jabba]

I just opened it. I believe we're good.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, you believe me?

[Jabba]

I believe you believe a woman.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Oh, Jesus. Should I spin again?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. No, not until you got a drink here. Pay the piper first.

[Jabba]

Pay that piper. And yes. Spin again. Keep going.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I've been watching a lot of wheel forge.

[Jabba]

I think there's more than.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I know the strength in that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Imagine what a list of events this would be if we accidentally got Zach hammered on this and it was just you and me ragging on him.

[Jabba]

I'm in on that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

There's always time.

[Jabba]

That should really be what your finale is.

[Juliana Chauncey]

There's always time for us to go full circle.

[Jabba]

We rip on Zach, Is it you again? No.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. Finish the beer, you asshole.

[Jabba]

By the way, there is a. You rigged this to fuck me over. This thing is always going to end up blue on Jabba. Exactly.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If it lands on it again, you have to go outside and shot that.

[Jabba]

I'm going to. This happens. Happening. Shut up. No, no. It's you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, you're Zach.

[Jabba]

Oh, fine. Deal. All right, well, I need to open a new one because these are both.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, my God. If it landed on Java again, I would have died.

[Jabba]

That would have been hilarious.

[Zach Badger Davis]

How many slices are there?

[Jabba]

Just one Java.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What? So someone with statistics background. What are the odds of landing on the 10

[Juliana Chauncey]

and then 1 in 10?

[Jabba]

It's not perfectly like. Like even?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, it's 1 in 10.

[Jabba]

From a weight.

[Juliana Chauncey]

From a weight standpoint, 10.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We could probably spin this 10 times. It's not going to land on it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, my God. I would love for you to eat.

[Jabba]

So this is going to count, by the way. Let it go. That's me, that's you. Everybody gets a turn. You just have two, though. By the way.

[Zach Badger Davis]

He's gone.

[Jabba]

He's gone. All right, deal.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Turn it upside down like Jabba did. Hold it over your laptop.

[Jabba]

By the way, I'm riding a bike an hour home after this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

My ride in the dark.

[Jabba]

You get an Uber. I have. I have room on the front of my bike. Do you want to it?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Are you going to take me back home? All the way to Denver?

[Jabba]

Where do you live? I mean, that's where I live.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Shut up.

[Jabba]

Yeah, where?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Where in town?

[Jabba]

SL's like.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do you want to take me on your bike to Sunle?

[Jabba]

You'll die. You'll break your face again. It'll be amazing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

A girl who doesn't want. How the. Is it 53?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. Ch to still.

[Jabba]

Okay, hold on. You and I have to drink half a beer.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay.

[Jabba]

Cheers.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Cheers.

[Jabba]

Hey.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Hi.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Talk about your all time backfire.

[Jabba]

You know, as much as I hate

[Juliana Chauncey]

you, look me in the eye.

[Jabba]

I'm going to miss you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

I love you. Ch, yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I love you.

[Jabba]

One more. One more.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Clip that now. I'm going to miss you.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. You guys had a play that for him. That was nice.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Every time he forgets.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That was cute.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He started it. I didn't do anything.

[Jabba]

What does that even mean?

[Juliana Chauncey]

You got soft for a minute.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This is a Zach Davis question.

[Jabba]

I don't actually hate you. It's the alcohol talking. How. All right. Anyways, where were we?

[Zach Badger Davis]

How long of a hike do you think you two could do together by yourselves?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Two miles.

[Jabba]

Two?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

She says two.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Well, first of all, you want to put some money on this.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Some form of a. We'll call it a through hike, whatever that ends up being.

[Jabba]

If the tracker fifner.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If the trek were to sponsor and pay for you and I to do a hike, the two of us, the fifth nur traverse. What is the longest one you would let them pay us to do?

[Jabba]

The Fifth Nur Traverse is what, like 60, 70 miles?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't do well with vertigo. I cried on goat racks. It took me three hours. You want to do the fifner with me?

[Jabba]

Wow. You cried on goat rocks. Wow. Okay, we're not doing the fner. What if we. How about. You got a dog, right?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I do.

[Jabba]

Do you hike with your dog?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I do.

[Jabba]

Do you want to do i70 to Grand Lake on the CDT this summer?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So I'm talking Herman Gulch to.

[Jabba]

Oh, wait. When are you moving?

[Juliana Chauncey]

End of June.

[Jabba]

End of June. We could do it before that. It's chaos for you. I get it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. No, it's not gonna happen. We could do part of the Mountain to Sea trail. That's by me.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What about just doing, like, the Golden Gauntlet, the two of you?

[Jabba]

Oh, the full Golden Gauntlet.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What's the Golden Gauntlet?

[Zach Badger Davis]

There's different versions of it, but effectively every mountain.

[Jabba]

So it's. Okay.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Well, just for this conversation, north and south Table Mountain

[Jabba]

apex. And it's depending on whether you want to do. Include. I say don't include.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Look out.

[Jabba]

Down. Look out.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Up Chimney Gulch.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yep. But it. So it ends up being, like, 25. You and I did that one time.

[Jabba]

30 miles. Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What's that?

[Juliana Chauncey]

What's the gain?

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's. It's like a big. It's like a big day in the PCT. It's probably 5,000. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jabba]

When was the last time you. Oh, yeah. It's a day.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I mean, I could.

[Jabba]

Yeah. You don't have to carry you. Only you don't have to carry your water and whatever snacks you want.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And you'd be going at my pace.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because it doesn't work the other way.

[Jabba]

Sure. I'm. I'm game. Before you leave.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't think I would kill him. I think we could do that.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. I would like for that to happen. See, the last time we drank.

[Jabba]

Trail correspondences.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Well, the last time Chon Scott drunk

[Juliana Chauncey]

Coming to you live from drill last time we have. We should make a drinking game out of it.

[Jabba]

All a sudden of it everything.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't be sober for any of

[Jabba]

it by the way. Zach should at least be along also.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think if I. Well, yeah, cuz who's going to take the social media content? He's going to be our camera boy.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The problem is it doesn't. The cutthroat nature I think is diminished by having a little bit.

[Jabba]

You're right.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And I'm.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do you think that Zach would lend us one of his child carrier backpacks that you could wear and we could see if I could fit in it? Would you do the Golden Gauntlet with me and a child carrier backpack?

[Zach Badger Davis]

You're above the weight.

[Jabba]

I'm just going to say that there isn't a backpack that can carry you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't care. Hair.

[Jabba]

Yeah, you're not that small.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't know. I don't mean within the weight limit. I'm saying an overloaded bulky. I could if I could physically fit myself into it. Not saying like a baby.

[Jabba]

That's insane that you can't.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You don't think I can fit in one?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Bring one to the studio for the guy. For the guy that put a scar on your face. You're now willing to ride his back for 30 miles.

[Jabba]

First of all, you know how quickly you would listen. I am my Marine Corps 23 year old self. Couldn't carry you for 30 miles.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, fine.

[Jabba]

And that's. That's pre.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You know what? I thought you were stronger. It's okay.

[Jabba]

You're a fucking insane person.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's fine. I just thought you were stronger.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You guys want to do the Golden Gauntlet?

[Jabba]

Do you want to arm wrestle again? Do you remember what happened last time you arm wrestled?

[Juliana Chauncey]

The second time you dropped me on my face.

[Jabba]

By the way. I didn't drop you. I let you moved your arm.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Arm. You Lucy in the footballed me.

[Jabba]

You cheated.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You said you could use both hands.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but you were just gonna go lefty at that point, by the way. I didn't say I was gonna go lefty. Both your hands. I said I was gonna go righty. Both your hands. Whatever, you dummy.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Whatever.

[Jabba]

Yo, bag. You want to get in my old bag?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Your old bag near your bag?

[Jabba]

Well, it just sounded like you actually wanted to get inside my backpack.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Where you got that impression.

[Jabba]

You got it really sad it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You guys should do this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

By the way. I'm not doing anything on the 20th, 21st or the 22nd, so check your calendars.

[Jabba]

You're ready to hike 25 plus miles.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, no, I will.

[Jabba]

I'm game anytime you are.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Great. Do you want to do the 20th, the 21st, or the 22nd chance?

[Zach Badger Davis]

We have to get more of a commitment from you because I'm literally asking for specific dates.

[Jabba]

Here's what I'm going to say.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The last time you drank on this podcast and agreed to a hike, it

[Juliana Chauncey]

snowed the next day. And I remembered I didn't like the cold.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay, okay.

[Jabba]

I'm just saying, be before we get carried away.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That was the universe. First off, we're in the month of May. I said, yes, I'll hike Rainier the next morning. It's May in Denver and a very, very warm winter, and it snows. That is the world sending me a sign.

[Jabba]

It's.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's okay to say that. Like, I was drunk. I committed to a thing that I didn't want to do. I just want to make sure that you're not doing that right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I was taking my heat instrument from the.

[Jabba]

Let me just nip this in the bud right now. Those dates don't work for me. Cuckoo's coming back from the hey Duke Trail, and we're going off to do 14ers for. From the 21st to, like, the 26th.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, then the only other option I can give you is June 2nd.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You should do a. You should bag a peek with them.

[Jabba]

I'm cool with that. I'm also cool with the Golden Gauntlet. On. On. Let me look at the second real quick. June 2nd. Yeah, I got it. June 2nd is cool with me.

[Zach Badger Davis]

For the listener, that would be the day after this podcast comes out.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Great. Put it on the calendar.

[Jabba]

Perfect.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Are you free?

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm. That's actually my anniversary, so I'm not free.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay.

[Jabba]

And he's not coming anyways. It's just me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Can you give us.

[Jabba]

She's totally going to bail.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Can you give us an entire workday of Jess? Because someone's going to have to take content.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I do not think that Jess would want to do that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, we can get.

[Jabba]

We can get our own content, you guys. We can get our creators.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What are you talking about?

[Jabba]

We don't need a bystander to get us content.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm guessing he doesn't want this to do. You're not asking the entire point to grow our friendship.

[Jabba]

The entire. We're not growing a friendship.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Funny as to see online.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What I will do is I'll give you guys a stipend to, like, stop into town and get some beers and some food and whatnot. We'll talk about it off air because I have to think about it.

[Jabba]

Yeah, think about it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

How much money do you want for that?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't know. How much money do you think spare.

[Jabba]

Wait, no, no, no, no. There's no money involved with this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You want to pay for your drink? Drinks.

[Jabba]

Who the cares.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I ordered my mark today and went immediately to the bathroom.

[Jabba]

Nobody needs to get paid to tolerate.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You just wheeled a bike into a room and said, I don't pay for anything.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but this is going to be fun.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You're gonna buy my drinks?

[Jabba]

No.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, then, so who's going to.

[Jabba]

Garrett.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No. Zach, how much drinking money are you giving me?

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'll give you guys drinking money for sure.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, good.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I should say for the irs, the Trek will be giving some drinking money.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, fine. If it's not on the calendar, it doesn't exist in my brain, so someone's got to put it down.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'll add it right now. Chance and Jabba do the Golden Gauntlet.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That'll buy us another episode before I leave. When do we want to do that one?

[Jabba]

Should we finish the way we finished last time? Zach,

[Zach Badger Davis]

tell the listener.

[Jabba]

So the last time Zach and I did the Golden Gauntlet in preparation age for our. Our PCT hike in 2017, we. And we walked all the way to. God. What's that? What's the name of that place? Sushi.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Literally, the only time I've ever been there was with.

[Jabba]

That's it?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yep.

[Jabba]

You were missing the boat.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, it's an all you can eat sushi joint in South Golden.

[Jabba]

Hold on.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What's that?

[Jabba]

What's it called? It's. It's like, it's. I don't think it's. It's on west.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's not that popular.

[Jabba]

It's on just off of. Just cold packs. No, six. Just off of six. As your. I will tell you right now. I'm done. I'm done. What's it called? Sushima.

[Zach Badger Davis]

But we met up with Cuckoo and. Yeah, we ate probably 4,000 calories worth of sushi on that. It's a tough hike, Jones. You're going to have to go on one day hike between now and then.

[Jabba]

Sushi. Yeah, Sushi.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's right.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You think I need to, like, go on a hike before? Can't.

[Jabba]

I'm. You're going to. Dude, you're going to get okay if you're not.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's hard. It's like. It's like you Being in your piece of jab.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Loves quitting stuff in the middle.

[Jabba]

Yeah. I will not quit this ever.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Neither will I.

[Jabba]

No. Good.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm the less in shape I am the harder of a day. You're going to have.

[Jabba]

You're going to listen. You have to.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It doesn't affect me.

[Jabba]

You have to reasonably hike hard.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Think about this. It's 9pm Java wants to go home. There's still five miles left. And I'm not quitting.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, but it's gonna be dark. There's gonna be mountain lions out there. He's gonna quit, but he's not mountain lion bait.

[Jabba]

Okay, listen, listen. I'm telling you, you're gonna get beat up if you're not prepared.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You're gonna get mentally beat up with how slow we're gonna go and how long it's gonna take and the frustration of schedule.

[Jabba]

I'm out. I'm actually.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You haven't. You know who hasn't thought this through? You haven't.

[Jabba]

Yeah, I haven't thought it through that you'd be a.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Not a. I'm saying I'll do it.

[Jabba]

Shotgun a beer. You won't hike hard.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Sounds like you're afraid to go slow.

[Jabba]

Sounds like I'm afraid to go slow.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, I said it would take me a while to do it. I'm not gonna rush. Afraid to go slow.

[Jabba]

That's not the right.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Then you said you're a pussy.

[Jabba]

Well, you are a pussy for being a person. By the way, I was always told from women that pussies are tough.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Which women?

[Jabba]

The women who don't want to be called pussies.

[Juliana Chauncey]

They don't want to be called them.

[Jabba]

I mean.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And they told you that pussies are to tough.

[Jabba]

Are you not tough?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, if they don't want to be,

[Jabba]

are you not tough?

[Juliana Chauncey]

The women that don't want to be called the.

[Jabba]

Not to come to peer pressure for me, but said she succumbed to peer pressure in multiple situations. And now I'm discovering that she literally only wants to throw a wrench into all the gears that is.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Jabba, you said something backwards and instead of sitting on it, you're deflecting.

[Jabba]

If that's what you want to call it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The women who don't want to be called pussies like being called a pussy because it means they're tough.

[Jabba]

Whatever you say, dude.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You said it. I'm just repeating it to make sure I got it.

[Jabba]

Listen, are you not tough or are you tough?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Did I understand it correctly?

[Jabba]

Are you tough or are you not tough?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not tough.

[Jabba]

Okay?

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's why this is gonna be fucking miserable for you.

[Jabba]

Sounds like it's gonna be miserable for everybody involved, including anyone who's watching this on social media.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Just us too. And I am actually intentionally not gonna work out for it. And I maybe will drink the night.

[Jabba]

I am pre quitting this hike. Great, another hike in the quit book because sounds like Jabba is sabotaging this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He's not quitting it. He just planned to only be out there for a duration.

[Jabba]

This is. We know.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We should put a time constraint on it. Let's say that.

[Jabba]

There we go. That that's logical and reasonable.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm just saying because then you could say it's a 24 hour hike and that's. That's a difficult challenge.

[Jabba]

It's not a different challenge. It's a different anomaly. Annoyance.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do I like. No, because I don't do that. They put time constraints on marathons. I didn't listen to that because I still wanted to accomplish it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And by the letter, I'm not it.

[Jabba]

I'm not saying anymore. I'm not in it anymore.

[Zach Badger Davis]

They would say that you dnf.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But I effed.

[Jabba]

Yeah, you effed all right. That's for sure.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You're scared.

[Jabba]

Yeah, I'm scared of hiking with you for 24 hours. First full 24 hours. I'm out.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Should I delete the calendar invite?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm in if Jabba doesn't think he's up for it.

[Jabba]

No, I'm actually out.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, great. He's not up for it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Could you average 2 miles per hour for the full hike?

[Jabba]

That's reasonable.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That is reasonable.

[Jabba]

Yeah, that's reasonable.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. But you're out, so I guess you can't.

[Jabba]

So wait, are you going to average 2 miles per hour or are you going to average literally always as few miles per hour as possible?

[Juliana Chauncey]

What do you think I'm going to do? Sit down and play with dirt?

[Jabba]

That's what literally, you were just talking about?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Setting the stage that you understand the speed at which I go. I take frequent breaks. I. I have short legs.

[Jabba]

You said you were going to fucking drag this out into the dark not

[Juliana Chauncey]

by choice, but by a lack of physical finesse.

[Jabba]

No. So I guess, what was the last time you. Exactly 25 miles per day?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Honestly? No, mister, I just did a piece of the AZT.

[Jabba]

No, literally. When was the last time you did 25 miles in a day?

[Juliana Chauncey]

North El Placid Trail. What year was that?

[Jabba]

Okay.

[Zach Badger Davis]

22.

[Jabba]

3.

[Zach Badger Davis]

3.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I thought that was last Year.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, it wasn't.

[Juliana Chauncey]

23.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Twins were not born, I don't think.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yes, they were.

[Jabba]

So that was the last time you did even like one 25 mile day?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. She's washed up.

[Jabba]

I don't care about any of that. I just ask you the last time you did it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, actually, if we're talking about the

[Zach Badger Davis]

last last time it was 24.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, then the last time would be the marathon I did in Fort Collins. It took me seven hours.

[Jabba]

Okay. Yeah. So that's. The marathon's not hiking. So we're not going to include that in this. We're talking about hiking.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You said, when's the last time you've done 25 miles in a day?

[Jabba]

I feel like I'm talking to a idiot right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, so to answer the question from Rachel, obviously not one day.

[Jabba]

Okay. Because listen, this is.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That was my question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

This is too annoying. I'm out.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jabba]

I am out.

[Juliana Chauncey]

She's too much. Be less.

[Jabba]

No, I just. Like 2 miles per hour is a normal, logical, reasonable miles per hour.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What's the problem?

[Jabba]

You. You are the problem. You're being the problem with regard to trying to make it as miserable as possible for the pace you decided you wanted to go.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I didn't decide I wanted to go. It. I know.

[Jabba]

Are you. Is this. Is this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I know what I averagely go. I know that I'm not in shape and that I haven't been hiking, and so I can assume how slow it is.

[Jabba]

Average includes breaks.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. And it sounds like there's a lot of uphill, so I'm gonna go slow. I average one and a half miles uphill. And so I want to set the sage for you so that you know that this is the pace I go at. If that's too much, I got no

[Jabba]

problem with 2 mph too much for you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Fine. Less.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but what you were suggesting prior to Zach suggesting 2 mph was definitely not 2 mph.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I was painting a very realistic scene of how one of those days could go for me. And I was saying, if we're talking about one day.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So, Chance, would you commit to 2 miles per hour hour?

[Juliana Chauncey]

If I can. I'm not gonna kill myself if I need a break.

[Jabba]

I thought you just were saying 2 miles per hour is pretty reasonable, and now you're saying you're not gonna kill yourself for two miles per hour if I'm going. I don't understand what we're really trying to do here.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, if you listen, I just said a Minute ago that when I'm going uphill, sometimes it's more like one and a half.

[Jabba]

Yeah, we're talking about average. Not.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm never gonna commit to. I'm not gonna commit to a pace that I don't know if I can keep up with because I'm out of.

[Jabba]

No one's averaging 2 miles per hour uphill all day, every day.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, we'll revisit this later. We'll revisit this later.

[Jabba]

I'm not doing it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm free on June 2nd. I'm free on June 2nd, and I'm willing to. But if jab is scared, that's fine. Okay.

[Jabba]

Whatever, dude.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This is a perfect opportunity to answer the question of. You guys have to say one nice thing. The. The thing, like, genuinely the thing that you like the most about the other person. This can't be a cop out answer. This can't be like, I. You get to spend time with me sort of situation. This has to be like a genuine compliment of the other person.

[Jabba]

I'm happy to go first or you're welcome to. So my favorite thing about ch is a. She clearly loves me. Girls. So good. Girl's obsessed.

[Juliana Chauncey]

She's so into me.

[Jabba]

No, but she definitely is the yin to say Zach's yang. And, like, your favorite thing about me

[Juliana Chauncey]

is that I clearly love you.

[Jabba]

Zack needs a yang.

[Zach Badger Davis]

A wang. Is what he say.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Your favorite thing about me has nothing to do with us. It has to do with Zach's wang.

[Jabba]

This is my. This is. When are we hanging out outside of this room?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Literally never.

[Jabba]

Literally never. So my favorite thing about it, we went to.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We went to 10 city one time without Zach, and we hopped. Man, we hopped five fences to get on a journey. We never had our memories.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Hold on a second.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I was there. I just didn't hop the fences.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I took this car there. Jabba said, I know how to not pay follow.

[Jabba]

I remember this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And then there was like 18 tall baseball field fences. He's like, you know how to climb, by the way.

[Jabba]

We were hammered.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

But I was why I did it, you guys. At that moment, you guys took a shortcut.

[Jabba]

Yeah, the shortcut was. Anyways, my favorite part about chance is that Zach needs a yin or. Or a wang or a wang.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So it's nothing about me actually.

[Jabba]

It's actually entirely about you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Sounds like it's about that.

[Jabba]

Everything about you is the opposite of Zach, and Zach needs that in his life.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What about me apart from Zach? Like, me as a person, as an individual? Some would Say okay.

[Jabba]

Apparently not nice enough was my answer. She wants more. She wants more out of this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Apparently nice. Not nice enough was my answer. Okay.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's something in the middle there. What about ch's?

[Jabba]

She doesn't roll over and die when Zach says something. That's what I'm talking about.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Keep going to Zach.

[Jabba]

He's asking me to elaborate.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He's asking you to compliment me?

[Jabba]

I'm just saying I like when you do that. Chance, I'm.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm trying to dig to where the compliment is in his answer.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I haven't found it yet.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's.

[Jabba]

It's there.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We'll get there. We'll get there. So what makes chaunce the yin to my wing?

[Jabba]

I feel like I've answered it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, let's. Like what specifically?

[Jabba]

She. She comes at things in a way that a lot of people don't. She comes at, like, getting to an answer or a question in a way that I wouldn't even. And I appreciate that about her.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That was genuine and nice.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'll accept that one.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay.

[Jabba]

See?

[Zach Badger Davis]

It wasn't that hard. It was there.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Good luck, Chance.

[Juliana Chauncey]

With what?

[Jabba]

Trying to actually compliment me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Me I appreciate about you that I can be as ruthlessly mean as I want to and I never need to go home thinking, I hope he didn't take it seriously.

[Jabba]

That's not really a compliment to me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Of course it is. You let things slide off, and I can be my full. My full level of fun. Mean to you without any doubt when I leave about if it was received in the way it was intended. And I know that whenever I mean to you, you receive it in the exact way I want you to.

[Jabba]

John says, never see me go home and cry myself to sleep.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I said, you receive it in the exact way I want you to.

[Jabba]

Yeah, exactly.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The exact way I want you.

[Jabba]

Why are you bringing Zach into this?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Jabba]

All right, cool. We did really good on that question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So now, Zach, you compliment both of us.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, I want you to elaborate. So the thing that you like best about Job is they get to be mean to him and he doesn't get upset about it.

[Jabba]

Super nice.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think the only super compliment. The only unique. Okay, you just said we don't fucking hang out outside. The only unique thing about our friendship is how merciless it is. Right? That's like the only unique thing about me and him versus me and anyone else. And there is a level of fun to that, that he knows that he can be as big of a fucking plot to me as he wants. And I'm never gonna actually be like, jabba hurt my feelings last night and vice versa. I can dish it to him, and I'm never worried that he's gonna be like, why is she so.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but that's not really it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So your.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Your favorite thing about. About Jabba is that he's got a very thick skin?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, my favorite thing about Jabba is that we've got this bit that we've seemed to fallen into, and we're both playing along with it, and I think it's fun.

[Jabba]

That's not a compliment.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, you're kind of complimenting yourself there.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Fine. He complimented you for me.

[Jabba]

No, that's not what I did. At.

[Zach Badger Davis]

At the end of it, he ended up giving you a compliment. I don't know if you've received.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Fine, I'll think harder. I thought that was a good one. I.

[Zach Badger Davis]

As the judge and jury here, I'm going to say that you need to try harder.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Jab is best friend. Can we circle back?

[Jabba]

Nope.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You have two open at the same time.

[Jabba]

I have three open, actually.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh. I haven't told him this yet, but I think his little. Whatever. He's.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Look at him. Don't look at me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Whatever's going on on your beard right now is kind of fun.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Come on. Come on. Those are fun. The thing that you like best about him can't be a thing that he just got, like, a week ago in his beard. A week ago.

[Jabba]

That's not.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He doesn't have a charming personality.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Whoa.

[Jabba]

By the way. The opposite. The things that she doesn't like, filter

[Juliana Chauncey]

it down to, like, f. Find one, would you say? I wouldn't say what? That, like, his bearing, personality.

[Jabba]

Gosh, this is a monstrous fail on Johnson's part. I love it. It's perfect. Well, the hate is real.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't hate him. I like. I think this is endearing. I just. We don't. I don't know him well enough to. He keeps coming back.

[Jabba]

Tell us what you hate about me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Literally nothing.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We. We'll get to that with the next question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I thought it was a compliment. The part where we can rag on each other. You can't. There's not many people in my life that I could ruthlessly rag on. And vice.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but you. You're. You're saying that you're ragging on me is, like, the fun part of us.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, for me.

[Jabba]

But that's not a compliment.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So I. I suggested that your compliment was that he had a Thick skin. And you said no to that.

[Jabba]

That's true.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because I don't know if that's, like, a compliment to him. I think that can also be a dead.

[Jabba]

You would say it, but it can

[Juliana Chauncey]

also be a detriment to you.

[Jabba]

Exactly right.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I don't want to give you falls like, you know, I don't want to pump you up there. And then you're like, great. And then it's just like, you're, you know.

[Jabba]

You think that would pump me up?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, I think you would take something that I'd say kindly about you, and you'd go home and you'd think about it.

[Jabba]

You definitely don't want to compliment you. What you're saying. You're basically saying you don't want to compliment.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think your thick skin. I think you're. I think you're. I think your thick skin can also be one of your blind spots. And so it's not my compliment.

[Jabba]

This is wild.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Have you.

[Jabba]

Have you compliment.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Why? Why is it wild? You know that about yourself, too.

[Jabba]

It's just. Wow that this is your version of complimenting is what I'm saying.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What do you want me to say?

[Jabba]

I don't care, Sean.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I usually don't referee, but I'm gonna go ahead and say that we're gonna revisit this. This question later.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I just need to think about it. Yeah, more.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You do need to think about it.

[Jabba]

Was this Rachel's question?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yes.

[Jabba]

Way to go, Rachel.

[Zach Badger Davis]

But it's also the obvious question.

[Jabba]

You stumped.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You stumped her.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He makes me laugh.

[Jabba]

Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Can we do that one?

[Jabba]

Yeah, sure. That's an easy thing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. Okay. That's a compliment years. Yeah.

[Jabba]

But by the way, that's also just

[Zach Badger Davis]

how difficult it was for her to say that. She had to say it in a question, and I think he makes me laugh.

[Juliana Chauncey]

How strange that it took her a while to find a compliment when every episode we've done in the past three years.

[Jabba]

Yeah, that's the entire point, though. I had to do the same thing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So how are we shocked that? It was hard.

[Jabba]

It was hard for one of us.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, well, sorry. I'm more like a of part.

[Jabba]

This is wild.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It is wild. This is exactly what the listeners want.

[Jabba]

This is comedy. No doubt. It's really good.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You know what's funny is when we turn the mics off, they're going to be much nicer to each other. But this is when it's on air.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We went. We went to jerks before this. He was like, can I borrow Your fork, please. I could get you another if you don't want it.

[Jabba]

Deep throated of that fork.

[Zach Badger Davis]

As soon as the lights turn on, it becomes a pissing contest. But I think more so unilaterally.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So what's next?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay. Anyways.

[Jabba]

Someone's skin is thicker, I think is what I'm hearing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Cool.

[Jabba]

A little bit.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right. What's the thing that you dislike most about the other person?

[Jabba]

Should we like have an entirely different episode? Just dedicated. No, I'm just kidding. I'm obviously joking.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Chance goes first. Chance goes first.

[Jabba]

Snake draft.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Chance goes first.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, fine.

[Jabba]

Where to start?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, how to pick one Things I dislike about you. When I'm trying to say a valid point and instead of just fucking listening, you have to speak louder and over me to try to make that be a. Don't talk. Do it. I dare you.

[Jabba]

I was just burping.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. You have to speak louder.

[Jabba]

Honesty is the thing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Sorry. Okay, there it goes. There it is. There it is.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You open the door for. For that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because I'm describing.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm trying to be impartial here.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, good. Well, we've got the receipts because it's the Internet. But the. The speaking louder over me to deflect from the valid points I'm bringing up with distracting noise doesn't make you recognize, right? It just makes you louder.

[Jabba]

She's right.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But you know that about yourself.

[Jabba]

I just said she's right.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I know. I'm softening it.

[Jabba]

I already softened it first.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. And I'm.

[Jabba]

I'm literally telling you I know when I'm.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's totally flaccid.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right? I'm. I'm rewarding your softening with a echo to validate you. You just accept it.

[Jabba]

I don't know if that's what validating is about.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, you just insulted him. I don't know.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You just asked me to. What he's gonna. He's still gotta speak. What do you hate about me?

[Jabba]

What you just did. So I literally just said you were right. And then you tried to recome back down upon it in more of what you were already talking about.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I said, but you know that about yourself. I was calling you self awareness there.

[Jabba]

So.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So I was saying this isn't. I'm not pointing out a blind spot.

[Jabba]

And by the way you're talking when it's my turn, which is the exact thing you'd hated about me and your actual answer towards me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So you hate that I'm a hypocrite.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay.

[Jabba]

100.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I would agree.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I am.

[Jabba]

So at least we can both agree about each other.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. That's why we get along so well.

[Jabba]

That's why I want to headbutt you through the wall. Yeah, I kind of do.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do you think if you threw me at the drywall, I would go through Through?

[Jabba]

Absolutely.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's not too late to. I mean, I'm not.

[Jabba]

No, absolutely. I could throw you through the drywall like.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Like with the wallpaper and everything. Oh, yeah. You think I would get hurt?

[Jabba]

Absolutely.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I have a question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Do you think you guys could do a podcast together, like a weekly podcast? Do you think that is a sustainable thing?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think it'd be wildly entertaining, I

[Jabba]

think, if we were making money. Absolutely.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. If someone's gonna pay us.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Let's say for the Love of the game, you made $50 per episode.

[Jabba]

Can we call it for the Love of the Game?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Am I doing any other work than showing up?

[Jabba]

Is there a podcast called for the Love of the Game yet? It's got to be at least three

[Zach Badger Davis]

of them, I'm sure.

[Jabba]

All right, well, for the love of the.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If there's not, we'll start it for

[Jabba]

the Love of the Hate.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

For the Love of the Hate.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think we should do a podcast for $50 per for the Hate of the Game, where you just come on weekly and do this.

[Jabba]

Hold on.

[Juliana Chauncey]

50 is not.

[Jabba]

Hold on, hold on. There's not a For Hate of the Game out there. There. Because that's what we're talking about.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. So we'll name it. I think anyone that's into, like, watching a couple that's divorcing in therapy.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

This would be the right audience for something like this.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because it would just be us arguing the whole time. And for some people, that's very stressful. I could see why they wouldn't like this.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You know, but for other people, like, I like watching the Housewives because it makes me feel better about my problems to watch them argue so much.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It could be therapeutic for some, but I could see it also being, like, highly dysregulating for others.

[Jabba]

There's no podcast called for the Hate of the Game. Right.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So that's what we'll call it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, Chance.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Take two. What's the thing that you like most about Jeff?

[Jabba]

She was not prepared for this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I like that I don't need to overthink around him sometimes when I'm around

[Jabba]

people still involving you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, it's how you make me feel. Feel. I like how you make me feel in that I Can be around you with my guard down.

[Jabba]

Keep going.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You have to say like he's got like cool shirts.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I if that is your compliment, I think you have to work harder on framing it as more of.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well then he should work hard on being nice to me if he wants it to be easier for me to find a compliment.

[Jabba]

Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right.

[Jabba]

Come back to this later. Again, you need a little more stand up.

[Juliana Chauncey]

When's the last time you've been nice? Nice. Okay, so forgive me for having trouble finding a compliment.

[Jabba]

That's the point of this actual exercise.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, but we're looking at me like I'm a like you. Well, you haven't been nice to me

[Jabba]

saying you have to have a compliment for me. But that's the question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

All I asked was when the last time you've been nice to me was

[Jabba]

when was the last time you've been nice to me too? Johnson, I just gave you a compliment.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I always lead with kindness.

[Jabba]

This is some bullshit. That's some bullshit I said. High class bullshit I said.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm sure you guys will keep this going while I go to the step.

[Jabba]

No, I'm also We're gonna take an actual time out.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Take a break.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, Java needs a break.

[Zach Badger Davis]

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[Juliana Chauncey]

Good.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And Chaunce wanted to air out her grievances.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm just like, okay. Is it bad that I can't think of one nice thing to say about him about after eight years? Sure. the same time, the guy's already got an ego. He doesn't need it pumped anymore in superficial ways. Is it that shocking that it's hard for me to think of on short notice? Something super nice to say about him when he has been nothing but mean to me for years. Years of the past episodes made the most recent episode. He's been nice to me. And as he said, we don't hang out outside of this. So that's the only exposure I get to him.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Where am I supposed to find a compliment? I don't hate him. I don't dislike him. I have no beef with him. I think this is fun. I would call him a friend.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If we. If either of us ever genuinely needed something, the other person would be there and do it. And I believe that. I believe that if I was in a fucking pinch and he was in proximity to where I was, and it wouldn't take a large amount of effort on his part, he would help me and vice versa. He's not gonna be in Pennsylvania and fly to me in California. Cause I got a flat tire. That just like, makes no sense. But if we were both in proximity in an area and I was like, help. I feel unsafe or something. No doubt in my mind he would drop what he was doing and come. Sure, sure. But when's the last time we've been nice to each other? Other.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think that's a key thing that you said and focus on that part. Because I think the. He eventually got to a compliment. We're recording. Just for the record, Jaba, he eventually got to what I thought was a genuine compliment for you. And you acknowledged the fact that you guys have been mean to each other. So I think that's the important point.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think he instigates it. So I think it's easier for him to find a compliment.

[Jabba]

Because street girl. Girl.

[Zach Badger Davis]

He. He may and probably will. I don't want to speak for him, but as. As. As a viewer of how this interacts is. I would say that there's no one that starts it. This. This is just a continual thing that happens.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Someone starts everything. There's A catalyst to everything.

[Jabba]

It's a baseline right now, all of

[Zach Badger Davis]

the wars, both parties think that the other party started it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

In the history of time, I didn't go up to him on a boat and say, I can't wait for you to get pregnant. So you leave the podcast so I could take your plan place. I, I didn't drop him on his

[Zach Badger Davis]

face, by the way.

[Jabba]

Okay, let me just answer real quick. Remember your fake compliment to me where I, I let things just roll right off my shoulders. All the things you are bad that you say bad about me. I don't remember them.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Does that make it okay that you say them? That you said them? I'm quoting you.

[Jabba]

I'm talking about what you do when I, when bad things you say to me. I don't, I don't internalize them and think about them later. And so because it's not really. It shouldn't be real. It's not real. The hate's not actually real.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I agree, I agree. But what I'm saying is you're an inst.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Time out, time out.

[Jabba]

I'm not denying that. I'm saying that I go home with

[Juliana Chauncey]

sentences like that and I lose sleep at night. I'm saying that you say like that to instigate both of you guys. He says no one starts it. I said you do, kind of.

[Jabba]

That is 100% true.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Jabba]

100% true.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You're saying you don't.

[Jabba]

You guys, I'm not saying that.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Shut the up. Both of you shut the up for a second. One second. While you were in the bathroom.

[Jabba]

Oh, here we go.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Chance said that. You know what? Jabba is my friend. If hit the fan, go to the bathroom. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. All right, well then we're going to hit the pause button. We're, we're revisiting this conversation.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Literally already went to the.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay, I, I, I beg you, please let me finish what I'm going to say before you intervene while Tom was in the bathroom. Cuz this kind. This came up sincerely, which I wasn't

[Juliana Chauncey]

expecting, cuz I would never say it to his face, neither would he. But like, it's unspoken.

[Jabba]

That's actually not true.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's unspoken. You don't even know what I said.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You're already breaking my one rule.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Fine.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Tom once confessed.

[Jabba]

That sounds like more like confided, but go on.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Confided, confessed, whatever. That she considers you a real friend. Like.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, I didn't say that. I Said, can I finish what I'm saying?

[Jabba]

And then you.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And then you don't talk. She said that if hits a fan, I know I could count on Jabba to be there for me if he

[Juliana Chauncey]

was in a convenient distance. I said that. I said, if he was in Pennsylvania and I was in California, that wouldn't be the case if we were in a convenient proximity to each other.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Front. For once in your life, shut the up. You can. You can give any rebuttals, any inaccuracies that I give you right now. You can clarify them and quantify them however you want. But we were having the conversation one on one while Tom was in the bathroom, and you said that like, Tom's a friend, and I know I could rely on him if I needed him. So the moral of that story is, I'm not trying to throw you under the bus for any reason.

[Jabba]

That's a compliment.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What I'm trying. No, what I'm trying to say is, is deep down, there is some feeling of kinship, and I'm trying to get to. There's got to be something about him that makes you feel that way. And I would like for you to

[Juliana Chauncey]

express that time and proximity and comfort with time and proximity around a person you formulate.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Oh, you're already watering it down. You're already watering it down.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I didn't know I was coming to a second therapy session today. I thought we were going to talk about the hike that he did.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This isn't a therapy session. This is. Is. We're just kidding.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Don't give me that look.

[Jabba]

I'm not giving you a look. I'm just looking.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Why? How has it turned into. I feel ambushed.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This is not an ambush. This is. I. I feel like the. You complimenting Tom is unsettled, and I'm trying to help you because I feel like you've already laid.

[Jabba]

You've planted the seeds, there's a foundation, said.

[Juliana Chauncey]

How do you put this? Words.

[Jabba]

How do you put this? Delicately enough that it doesn't sound like a compliment. Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

How am I getting the intervention here when he's been mean the whole time?

[Jabba]

Whoa, whoa. Hold on, hold on. Let me ask you a quick question. Do you think it's only been me that's been mean? No, because that's what it sounds like, what you just said.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, no, no. What I told you when he told us to shut up was that I think that you instigate it and I give it back, but I don't think I instigated it to develop it into what it's become.

[Jabba]

Well, we have a third party here.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Let's. Let's assume everything that you're saying is true, which we can debate. Obviously, that's. We'll call that a questionable fact.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What do you want from me?

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm just saying, deep down, you have acknowledged off air, maybe not on air, quite as much, that you do consider Tom a friend.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We know each other well enough, and we've been around each other enough times that I think that given the amount of time we've spent together, that if either of us truly needed something and the other person was in proximity and able to help, that they would not say, no, shove it. Fuck you. They would say, okay, great, let me help. And I think that comes from being around.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I do feel like my mom right now. This is bad. This is bad. And I think I would fail this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, you know what? Be nicer to me, and it won't be as hard for me say something nice about you. So.

[Jabba]

So what you're saying is that I'm the mean one.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What I'm saying is, like, actions have consequences. You've, like, bullied me mercilessly for the past five episodes you've been on. I'm sorry, I'm drawing a blank on a compliment when those are the last five times I've seen you. I don't take it personally in a way where I go home and cry, but I also don't know your personality outside of you ragging on me very well at all, where I could say something nice because all I know about you is the form of you that shits on me.

[Jabba]

Okay, so fair.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Sounds fair.

[Jabba]

It sounds fair to you. So my question is, all of what you're referring to means that I have all of the blame and you have none of the blame.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I do like that world. That does not sound fair because. No, I do perpetuate it because for me, it is fun, because there's no other relationship where I can do that without fear of actually hurting someone's feelings. I know you have feelings that could be hurt. I haven't found them yet, to my knowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

[Jabba]

I'm unhurt.

[Juliana Chauncey]

How is this a me interview? Intervention.

[Jabba]

It's not necessarily you intervention if you don't feel you need an intervention, but you are objectively struggling to find a way, and Zach is trying very hard to help you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But what if this.

[Jabba]

Compliment me in one singular way.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But what if this isn't a me problem? What if this is an opportunity for you to reflect on.

[Jabba]

Indeed.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You haven't done anything compliment worthy. Last.

[Jabba]

We'll move on.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Name the last reaction when you've done something compliment worthy. Name. You tell me the last

[Jabba]

intervention.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The last.

[Jabba]

Right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

When was the last time you've done something I should compliment?

[Jabba]

It's irrelevant to.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, we're going to move on. We're going to move on.

[Jabba]

When was the last time you did something I should compliment?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Probably never. Because we don't hang out.

[Jabba]

Then what's your point?

[Juliana Chauncey]

That. Why am I being put on the side? Because we hang out.

[Jabba]

We're put on this side.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We show up to one of these once a month. We do this and we go home and we don't talk.

[Jabba]

Sean's. I don't to ask the question.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This was me. I know deep down Tron has at least one.

[Jabba]

She can't bring herself.

[Zach Badger Davis]

She has one positive affirmation for.

[Jabba]

Listen, I understand why you're having a difficult time doing this. I'm not saying you shouldn't.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You made the bed. Sleep in it.

[Jabba]

Chance, if I made the bed, I apologize.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't need you to. Because I don't mind this. It's fun for me. I enjoy this.

[Jabba]

You don't look like you're having fun right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I am having so much fun. But I can't think of a compliment for you because I don't even know anything about it.

[Jabba]

You.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I didn't know you lived in Sloan's Lake. I thought you still lived in golden with that small dog.

[Jabba]

I don't know. I never lived in Golden.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You did. I picked. I picked you up from something.

[Jabba]

Never lived in Golden.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, you were staying with someone who had a small dog and I picked you up from something.

[Jabba]

Nevada.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And how many years ago was.

[Jabba]

That Is irrelevant.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It is. Because that's the last significant fact I know about. What I'm saying is I don't know anything about you. We don't. We're not. We don't hang out. What am I supposed to compliment?

[Jabba]

What am I supposed to compliment?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't think you're terrible. I don't think you're horrible. I don't dislike you. I don't think you're bad. Just like. What am I supposed to comment?

[Jabba]

I'm confident in myself and all of these things.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right? You don't need. You don't need my validation.

[Jabba]

No, I do not. You're right about that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We meet once a month and we yell at each other.

[Jabba]

Again, the question was asked.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We're gonna move on.

[Jabba]

I Didn't ask it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Fine.

[Jabba]

I'm not like. It's fine. This is not a competition. It's just trying to.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We're gonna move on.

[Jabba]

Work on the.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We're gonna move on.

[Jabba]

Hey. Okay. Okay. So you just should have said, I cannot do it. That's what you should have said.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I can't find. I can't fucking think of anything.

[Jabba]

That's fine.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Is it?

[Jabba]

I mean, that's sad.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think it's sad. I think it's sad that after eight years, I can't think of anything.

[Jabba]

I don't think you've actually tried.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do we have any. Have you.

[Jabba]

Do you think she's tried?

[Juliana Chauncey]

When is the last time you've texted me?

[Jabba]

What?

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, now this is feeling like a therapy session. We're gonna change the subject.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I should try.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We're gonna change the subject.

[Jabba]

Listen, if you want me to pull up our text thread.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Good. It's probably me, like, do you want tickets to an ABs game? And you were like, no, I'm busy.

[Jabba]

That was one time you texted me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's probably the last time, the only time. Okay, great. So we have no depth in this friendship. What am I supposed to say?

[Jabba]

It's again, no one but Rachel and or Zach asked a question that we are trying to answer, and I did my best, and that's fine.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Fine.

[Jabba]

And whether or not you receive that, accept that as one thing, but you can't answer it in the way that it was posed and asked. That's all.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's all.

[Jabba]

We got into the end, too.

[Juliana Chauncey]

This is the first time in all of these bicker sessions that I feel some sort of worry that you might leave offended.

[Jabba]

Oh, I'm literally not. I could tell you right now I'm not offended.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Would you admit it if you were?

[Jabba]

Absolutely. Absolutely. If my feelings were hurt, I would tell you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I would absolutely tell the world into the migration.

[Jabba]

I would absolutely say that. I would. I'm not afraid. Afraid of a thing about my feelings.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What's the last thing your feelings were hurt about?

[Jabba]

Last thing my feelings were heard about. Okay. You want some real.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, I do.

[Jabba]

All right. So on the Arizona trail handstand, Liz Kidder, Jolly were just teaming up on me. Just like. Just relentless for like. Like a. Felt like a few days. And they'd already done a bit of it on the. On the PCT in Washington, teaming up on me. And I gave it back to them on the. On the pct. And they were doing it again on the Arizona trail when we were at the Grand Canyon. And I flipped my shit, and I was like, you guys, really? Hell, yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You're usually so good at pretending. It doesn't faze you.

[Jabba]

Pretending only gets you so far until it fucking blows up in your face.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Does it ever faze you? And I mean to you, You.

[Jabba]

Not even one time.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Why is that?

[Jabba]

Yeah, because it's. It's performative.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because there's no depth in our relationship.

[Jabba]

It's performative for this podcast, but we're performing an answer right now, and you can't even perform the actual answer to this question right now. So it feels a very, like, real situation right now that you can't find one compliment. And that's. So I answered your question about when was the last time my feelings were hurt?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Okay. So that. That was the answer to your question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, that was a good answer.

[Jabba]

I don't know where we're going from there on this, but I answered your question. Well, you were saying subvert the point of you trying to answer this question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I wasn't saying it as. I wasn't saying what I said as a dig. I was saying you said that the last time your feelings were hurt was they were teaming up on you a month ago. But whenever I. I get it. Okay? You haven't had your feelings. You're so strong.

[Jabba]

But so strong.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Now when I. Hold on.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Hold on. I will not. I'm going to interrupt you because. No, hold on. I'll turn your actual Michael, thanks to you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm wondering if that.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay, so here's the deal is you asked him to be vulnerable, and then you immediately on him. And that's not something. No, you said. Oh, no, you said, good for you. That was a month ago. You haven't had your feeling hurt for a month. I as.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because he pointed out it was a month ago.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All I'm saying is you asked him on air to reveal a situation where he was feeling vulnerable, and you did on him.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Turn my mic back on. Turn me back on. I did not intend that. And if that's how it came across, I'm sorry. I did not mean that.

[Jabba]

Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What I meant was that it was surprising for me to hear that you said that someone giving you hurt your feelings because we give each other literally every time we see each other. And I have, as I said, never gone home with the impression that either of us took any of it seriously. And you're telling me that sometimes you do take it seriously. And so I heard what you said, and I reflected on it, and I said, have you ever taken Anything I've said, seriously, it wasn't, in a way, to make him feel bad. But then he said, mind you, it hasn't been a month. And it felt like he was trying to, like, prove his machones there by being like, yeah, okay.

[Jabba]

Saying it was a month ago, meaning that was recent, by the way.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I thought you were bragging about how infrequent it was. That's why I was like, okay.

[Jabba]

It was extremely recent.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. So for me, a girl who cries every day, I was like, cool. You went a month without having your feelings hurt? I've never done that. You know, it wasn't me shitting on him. I apologize.

[Jabba]

Yeah, I don't know where you're going right now, by the way.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What I meant was, was when you said it was a month ago, I thought you were bragging about.

[Jabba]

I don't know where you're going with all of it right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm responding.

[Jabba]

Where are you going?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm responding to Zach implying that I.

[Jabba]

Why you asked me to be vulnerable,

[Juliana Chauncey]

that I asked you for vulnerability, and then I wasn't accepting of it.

[Jabba]

We're over. That why you asked me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Apologize for that.

[Jabba]

Where are you? Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Humanize you to understand you, to, like, get, like, some depth.

[Jabba]

I think you're, like, talking around at all.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I think that all, like, all of our bickering is very service level, so I asked you a genuine question, and you answered it, and I. I

[Jabba]

still think you're talking around at all right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That was a. That was a direct answer to your question.

[Jabba]

You're still talking around the actual question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What was it?

[Zach Badger Davis]

We were trying to get it a compliment for Jabba.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We passed that.

[Jabba]

Apparently, we're not past it. Oh, my God.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We can move on. We can move on.

[Jabba]

Obviously, I'm not offended by your inability. For the record.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's why I asked if I've ever offended you. It wasn't to, like.

[Jabba]

You didn't ask if you ever offended me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I did. And then he told me you asked.

[Jabba]

When was the last time you asked? When was the last time I was offended? That's the difference.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I asked to be vulnerable, and then I followed up, and then he.

[Jabba]

I really think you're. You're doing your version of professional level talk around the subject. That's what I think you're doing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

All being recorded. Like, there's literally. You have tapes to check.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I want to. I want to shift gears right now. Can I shift gears?

[Jabba]

Totally fine. Absolutely. I'm just. I'm a guest. Yeah, you. You Direct, bro.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want. Maybe this is a roundabout way, but you don't have to give any personal compliments to one another, but undoubtedly the three of us have spent a lot of time together. The Wisconsin trip, all these podcasts, trail days. Yeah. Like both on the scenes and off. Let's start with. With our favorite moments. Singular moment of the three of us hanging out together. I want to go first because you guys have had a lot of time to talk here. I just also want to release the tension a little bit.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We better title this episode Chaunce gets ambushed into a Therapy Session.

[Zach Badger Davis]

How do you feel like this is directed at you?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because we're not talking about the azt.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We already talked about the AZT over

[Juliana Chauncey]

thought that was why we were here. We spent like three hours on like conflict resolution for the two of us.

[Jabba]

Speaking of conflict resolution.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh my God. Just tell me the question. So painful. I don't like to even talk about feelings. This is not fun for me.

[Jabba]

Okay. That is the root, I think, of what we're going for here.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Chance. This is meant to be like a retrospective of the podcast, isn't it?

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's really fun.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You feel like you're being attacked right now?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, listen, I feel like I thought this was gonna be a different theme.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What did you think the theme was gonna be?

[Juliana Chauncey]

The azt.

[Zach Badger Davis]

He was on the AZT for like two weeks. He's done many. He's done over a year. Backpacking. You think we're gonna fill three hours with him talking about two weeks?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Rachel didn't even need to put show notes. Cuz you could pick any topic and we could fill three hours.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think the AZT is one of 10 questions.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. I am naive and dumb and I came into here thinking that. And I am just a little caught off guard that I am on the spot now to compliment someone who has.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We're moving past that. We're moving past that.

[Jabba]

I just also, real quick, just for context, I am unaware of any subject matter prior to this.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We have show notes. Tom doesn't have anything.

[Jabba]

I have none.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Hero.

[Jabba]

I have no. You know, I don't. I don't want to see any of it. I don't need to see any of it. So if you think you're ambushed. None of this is. I'm privy to none of it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So Zach's the problem.

[Jabba]

Rachel's very handy.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Don't you dare talk about sweet Rachel.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This is not Rachel's problem.

[Jabba]

The one question you're having problem with

[Zach Badger Davis]

right now, Rachel is amazing.

[Jabba]

Zach didn't ask the question. Rachel asked the question. I.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Listen.

[Jabba]

I don't dislike Rachel.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You know what? I am going to accept the blame because I kept pushing on a button that apparently is a button.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's not a button.

[Jabba]

It's a question that just can't be answered.

[Juliana Chauncey]

To not have an answer. Is a girl allowed to say, I don't know?

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, it's you. Whatever you do is good. I'm trying to. I'm trying to. I want to move in a positive direction.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, fine. I. Fine. I. I thought it was very brave of you to shave your head at the live podcast. Such a part of your. Or not your head. It was your beard. You shave something. Was it his head?

[Jabba]

This is a fail, John.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I thought it was very brave of you to do that when that is like, your image and your personality, and you did it in the name of.

[Jabba]

What did I say shave?

[Juliana Chauncey]

We had the barber come and shave your beard, but you were also bald at the time, so I couldn't remember which he did. He might have touched up the bald, too. You looked like Uncle Fester. It was really great.

[Jabba]

But compliment.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I thought it was very brave of you to do that for charity.

[Jabba]

Underhanded love

[Juliana Chauncey]

started as a compliment, and then you started cutting me off.

[Jabba]

Sh. You. I. I got nothing. I got nothing. You. I mean, I.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You can't even let me compliment you without triggering me.

[Jabba]

I apologize.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That was too far. I'm sorry. It's not all you. I'm just trying. And every time I try, there's something wrong with it, so why bother? Where did my hockey go?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Should we go to segments? I feel like we should go to segments.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We don't need to go to segments. This isn't that big. This isn't that big of a thing. I just think that, like, we are dwelling on something that we should have moved on from, like, 10 questions ago.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I didn't know that this was going to actually like it shouldn't

[Jabba]

this condition.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, this is the stay Salty question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

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[Zach Badger Davis]

I I think that's probably the best move at this point. I think it's the best move. This is the steak salty question presented by element. Use our URL drink elementi.com trek we'll all answer this. Hottest take for backpacking or outdoors at large.

[Jabba]

Well, hottest take right now.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Any hot take is good.

[Jabba]

Is only fans and through hiking.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What do you think about it?

[Jabba]

I got no problem with it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think I should have thought of it first. God bless that girl. I hope she gets her bag.

[Jabba]

Oh, she's getting her back.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, she absolutely deserves it.

[Jabba]

Of course, if trendsetter smashes smasher when

[Juliana Chauncey]

I vlog my eggs, I see the demographics. I know it's all old dudes. If you can monetize that aspect of it and be like, I see what I'm getting.

[Jabba]

I mean, only fans, surely old dudes, but hers. Okay, does somebody want to just explain who we're talking about here?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, the cute, lovely girl that's hiking the pct that has such a high level of self confidence that she doesn't give a about any of the feedback she's getting and she's just being herself. So admirable.

[Jabba]

And by the way, what you you just like divulged is the, the social media response she's getting from a lot of people, and that's great. But the only fans. Like, the only fans. You're saying, you're saying that, like, older men or whatever are her only fans thing, but her support on Instagram, from my perspective, is absolutely what you just said, and that's great.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I was saying, based on my demographics from when I've vlogged my hikes, I've seen that my hikes are mostly older men. And if that's what she's getting, good for you for monetizing seeing that audience, sure.

[Jabba]

Great.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Could be wrong. That could not be her audience. That's just my experience, and I was trying to be willing to bet.

[Jabba]

You're probably right.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I mean, but yes, I, I, I'm proud of the women of the hiking community for sticking up to. For her in.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Things. I mean, I haven't because I been avoiding social media for an extent, but I've seen Elise do it, and I saw that you guys did an article on her.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That was a different publication.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That was you guys.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yes.

[Jabba]

Outside.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Shut up. They're. They're copying your stylistic elements on Instagram because I thought it was you.

[Jabba]

Is it Zach's, or is it whoever's running Zach's social media?

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, it was not us, Echo.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not online much, so the hot

[Jabba]

take is that only fans is for through hikers, and I got no problem.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The hot take is. How has no one thought about this first? That's so smart.

[Jabba]

That's fine too.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. But, oh, yeah, it was your hot take, so you should be able to say it. Sorry.

[Jabba]

Great. What's your hot take, by the way? I thought I was the instigator. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we're wrong. Maybe you're wrong. Okay, great. This is hilarious.

[Juliana Chauncey]

This might be one of our worst episodes.

[Jabba]

For you. I mean, like, personally for you. Like, how you're experiencing it. You're not enjoying it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't think I've drank enough for not driving home. I certainly am not drinking enough for this. Did you drink all five of those?

[Jabba]

I'm empty.

[Zach Badger Davis]

There's a whole case in the fridge.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Would you be a deer?

[Jabba]

Oh, I'd love to.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Thank you, sweetie.

[Jabba]

Love to. Anything you need, Chaz. Thank you so much.

[Juliana Chauncey]

My hot take. In the world of backpacking, is it not that serious? I think everyone makes it more serious than it needs to be. Oh, they didn't do the miles. I did. Oh, the Yellow Blaze. Oh, they're doing it in the Pink, short, tight set. Oh, they put on mascara. It's not that fucking serious. We're all just walking, you know, like, stop making it bigger than it is. That's my hot take is everyone just needs to take it less seriously and be nicer to each other.

[Jabba]

So hold on. What'd you just say was the end?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Mark,

[Jabba]

I just got back. What? What did I miss?

[Juliana Chauncey]

How are we flipping this on? Me being mean to you?

[Jabba]

It sounds like you're just taking a lot of it very personally, so I agree. It's not that serious. It's great. It's a good, it's a fun time. I, I have built my life around it for the last, I guess 13, 14 years at this point. But, you know, it really isn't that serious. No.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So why do we make it that way? Why are we like, okay, talk about the cute girl in her pink outfit that puts on her mascara and her eyebrow gel before she hikes.

[Jabba]

That's a fair point.

[Juliana Chauncey]

More power to you. If I had the confidence, I put on mascara into hatchapy when I got that far in the PCT and everyone made fun of me and I got self conscious and I, I didn't. So for her to take all that stuff and keep doing it, good for her. I wish I had a fraction of her confidence. But to everyone that gets heated about that stuff, it's not that fucking serious. If someone wants to go outside and walk 10 miles and put on mascara for it, how does that impact her

[Jabba]

day or one mile for that matter?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, exactly. At any, at any pace, at any. Why does that affect you?

[Jabba]

You know, I understand how people can feel overly invested. I can understand, understand that, you know,

[Juliana Chauncey]

but like the, the, like ultr. Light niche through hiking, like we've been doing this for years. Group, like, how does it take anything from you to let someone enjoy what they want to enjoy on a trail that brought you joy too?

[Jabba]

And I'm only saying this from a devil's advocate standpoint.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay.

[Jabba]

Not because I feel this way in the core of my soul, but some people, they put a lot of their emotional. A lot of people, how do I put this to be. Some people use this as a tool to make themselves whole again.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Okay. And, and I'm, I actually am one of those people who didn't know they needed to be whole and got into this game and feel whole doing it. So when somebody uses this tool of, through hiking, backpack, trekking, outdoors, adventuring, whatever it is, when they invest their soul into it, they feel a certain sense of Ownership of it, you know, and by the way, here we are at the trek and backpacker radio has a vested interest in it. So. So. And that's not to say that you guys can like control how people love or hate or feel about out through hiking, but you have a stake in this game and you can. And as individuals, you feel a certain way, one way or the other about anything, just like any other individual would do about through hiking. And so when somebody has an outlandish way of living this lifestyle that doesn't match up and pair well with how we have all done it or whatever, it can feel like that person can be attacked.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Fact.

[Jabba]

If people don't believe in it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But why do they need to take that out on another person? Why can't they just be like, that's a trigger. Let me work on that.

[Jabba]

I mean, that is the same conversation as how we as society have completely different opinions about how we live our lives.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I have one thought about something you said. If I could Please, you can. While we're on this therapy session. You mentioned there that for you through hiking was something that you didn't realize that you needed. That made you whole again, Right?

[Jabba]

Sure.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think in a majority of the times that you're sitting at this table, you aren't vulnerable in those ways that you're sharing a bit of today.

[Jabba]

And I think you're not asking the right questions.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I think if you were more like that, I wouldn't so quickly be like, well, how many trails have you quit? Because if I knew that that was something that like made you whole and feel complete and like all that stuff. Stuff like maybe I wouldn't so on it so heavily, but I think because I don't know that depth part of it, it just. All of it's surface level in my brain.

[Jabba]

Okay, well, you're.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We did have an entire episode about him quitting the long trail, which is why I brought that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But he doesn't act vulnerable. Everything he says is with like a tough.

[Jabba]

You don't ask vulnerable questions. I mean, I mean, if you want vulnerable answers, give. Ask vulnerable questions.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. I was just simply trying to say that I'm not shitting on you.

[Jabba]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not saying that either. I'm just saying that I appreciated o. I appreciated that moment of vulnerability you just gave. I don't see it often and I. The reason I give you such crap about that stuff is because I don't know that it actually means something in that way to you. I forget that because we have such this stick going on that I forget that it actually, I forget that you can get hurt.

[Jabba]

You forget that I'm actually a human being who has actual experiences and feelings and, and things that make me vulnerable. And that's fine sometimes. Listen, I, I actually.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Such a tough exterior.

[Jabba]

I was just gonna say I put off that Persona.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So I respond that's. And that's the Persona I'm responding to.

[Jabba]

You know, but here, listen, we're not, we're. I'm not trying to get back into. Yeah, but, but when, when we're talking about vulnerabilities with, with people that are out there hiking and like doing what they need to do for them. Them. Like I had to do this. I had to do this life to like feel complete. I literally had to do. I had to do it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I believe you. But have we ever had like a, have we ever had like a heart to heart attack again?

[Jabba]

If you might ask those questions, I might answer those questions if I felt

[Juliana Chauncey]

like you would answer them. Maybe I, but you don't even ask

[Jabba]

them this question because you put off

[Juliana Chauncey]

such a tough, hard, everything's a joke exterior that it's like there's no breaking past that hard job.

[Jabba]

Okay, so let me, let me just.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's how I perceive you.

[Jabba]

Okay, that's fine. So. So are we aware of the people you need to check in on the most? Are the people that are the least you feel like you need to check in on? Have you heard that before in your life, just in general?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yes. And I, and I believe the concept,

[Jabba]

but it's, it's, it's not a concept. It's a real thing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It is, you know it is. But I'm saying you're saying it as like, this is like a concept and it is.

[Jabba]

No, I'm not saying it as a. I'm saying this is a real thing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm saying it's harder to put into practice than the idea of it. Because when you're, that's why it's. That's why when you're face to face with those people.

[Jabba]

Okay, I'm just going to say what, what it, what it amounts to. People that commit suicide are the, some of them are the last people you think are going to believe me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I know.

[Jabba]

Yeah. And I know it too.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right.

[Jabba]

Like to my core.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

I have lost more friends in, in, in the world that are my marine brothers than I care to ever admit.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. I don't think either you or I have.

[Jabba]

And we use our, the way we approach Life as a. Like, like, it's all like, it's a joke. It's a joke. It's all just for fun. And it's all just like it, It's. If we can laugh about, then it's. Then it doesn't hurt. All right. And so when I found, through hiking, it fixed parts of my soul that I didn't know I needed fixed.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I think that's beautiful.

[Jabba]

And I'm just trying to tell you, when someone is like me who is in your life who you think you don't need to worry about, maybe it's a little, little different.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What about vice versa then, Then please,

[Jabba]

by all means, explain that to me. And I'm not trying to tell you, I'm not trying to say that as a way of like.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, me neither.

[Jabba]

Like retorting in a sarcastic or me neither facetious way. But just tell me what I. What I don't know.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Same. But that's, but that's. What I'm saying is it's not one sided, it's both sided. We both, we both look at each other as a fun punching bag and we've never thought deeper of it.

[Jabba]

Well, if you feel like, and I'm not saying you're ever hurtful to me, but like, people can be hurt. Yes, people. Just any, any person. Sure. And like when we use each other as a punching bag and, and, and it's like for fun, it's kind of therapeutic. I mean, it is. I'm not hurt by it. I'm really not.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You have, you have fun shitting on me?

[Jabba]

Do you have fun shitting on me?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yes. It's not a trick question. Do you have fun shitting on me?

[Jabba]

Well, we're doing it for a shtick, for sure.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But is it fun? Is it like.

[Jabba]

It's fun only if it doesn't hurt you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It doesn't.

[Jabba]

But is it fun only if it doesn't hurt you?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Have you had fun doing it?

[Jabba]

Of course.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's not a trick question. That's what I'm saying. So when I gave my initial compliment of that we can rag on each other like that and I can go home and not worry that I hurt your feelings, that was the compliment. Was that like we, we can do that with each other and let off that steam and have that fun and rag on each other and not worry about that the other person took it literally or seriously. They're like, and I know it's funny. Then. Is that a real comment? I don't know. I thought it was a Good one. Because it was like, I don't need to worry about that.

[Jabba]

I'm not saying it. It doesn't feel like a compliment, personally. Just for what it's worth, if you're

[Zach Badger Davis]

complimenting yourself, that's not a good compliment to another person. I'm confident you're saying we can do this to each other.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I assume he doesn't go home and feel guilt about what he said.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You're not listening to what I'm saying right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I can't win. I'm not trying to. To win. Well, I'm not either. No, I know. I said I can't win, though. And then I had to clarify. I'm not trying to. I. I appreciate the vulnerability you've given. I appreciate the context. I do often time forget the context. And I do often times view you more as a. An impenetrable high. Highly.

[Jabba]

I'm not.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You come up. You portray incredibly high self confidence. And that's true. And an inability to hurt or phase.

[Jabba]

I agree.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Based on that. That how I receive that. That is how I respond is I receive that this is who this person is. He is incredibly self confident. He can't. He can't be hurt. He can't be phased. And I treat you as such. And now you're telling me I can be hurt. And these things do affect me and this and that.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I'm so saying to me that I appreciate you sharing it. I forget that because we never go there.

[Jabba]

That's fine. I think that's understandable. I think that makes complete sense. I need redirection on what the original question was because I don't want to like, lose sight of where we started.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It was just the hot take on back.

[Jabba]

Well. Well, hold on.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Only fans.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, we can't just like.

[Jabba]

Well, the vulnerabilities is a real thing.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, I know. I'm. I'm. You're. I'm being silly.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We're getting to some sort of like.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm being very silly.

[Jabba]

So she. She as in Cameron, the. The girl who, you know, is using only fans and she's being vulnerable on. Online and. And using that in her Persona to. To either fund her hike or have fun with her hike or whatever it is. But like, she is receiving both hate and support online.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yep.

[Jabba]

Right. Y. And I guarantee you that hate that she sees online line is hurtful.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Guaranteed.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

So hurtful things. No matter how tough our exterior is, no matter what our intention can be, it can still hurt.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yes.

[Jabba]

Okay. So. And that goes for you and that goes for me. And whether you believe I'm able to be hurt or not, I am able to be hurt.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, it's not if I believe it. It's just that I, like, I'm not often reminded of it.

[Jabba]

Well, again, what. What I will. What? I will. And I know that your time is short here on this podcast, but.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And on Earth.

[Jabba]

And on Earth. But what I will just say shows me in the parking lot is that, you know, no matter what we put on as a. As a. As our outward facing Persona, we're all human and we can be hurt. And it can be me and it can be you, it can be Zach, it could be Cameron. It can be anyone who looks the part of somebody who's incapable of being hurt. We're all human.

[Juliana Chauncey]

All right, I agree.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think that's a beautiful summary. I just want to end on the fact that with a few more therapy sessions, I know you guys genuinely love each other. You don't have to comment on this at all. Regardless of you guys individual relationship relationships, I appreciate you both individually, to me and with each other. John's already defensive Johns. This is.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What did I do?

[Zach Badger Davis]

I just. I. Sorry if I'm reading facial expressions.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The tab wasn't pushed, so I looked down and I went to push it. You said I was defensive.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I just want to say that I think that your guys's dynamic on this podcast has been a reason why the podcast has been iconic.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Say it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's a bit that we've both got. Like, you know, we're. But we're both playing along with a bit.

[Jabba]

You guys.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You guys keep leaning into the bit. I think this bit exists with or without the button being recorded. I think it's played up a little bit when it's recorded, but I think you guys are both very entertaining personalities. The way that you jab each other is fun and entertaining, and that dynamic is going to be missed shots.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Is it not fun for you?

[Jabba]

Oh, of course it is.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. I feel like. I feel like I'm in trouble.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Chance, this was. This was my attempt to compliment you individually and as a team.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We all need immediate.

[Jabba]

All I was about to say was, you're going to be missed.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Into the mic, please.

[Jabba]

It was. I said you're going to be missed.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Look at me while you say we're

[Jabba]

going to miss you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Cheers. I'm going to miss you. If you're ever in North Carolina, you can come visit my home state, Pennsylvania,

[Jabba]

my second home state.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right. And my salty take is. There's A lot of question around the responsibility of geotagging a location when you're on Instagram.

[Jabba]

Jesus, that's a 10 year old fucking.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, no, no, no.

[Jabba]

My conversation.

[Zach Badger Davis]

My thing is, if you feel conflicted about it, keep it off Instagram. You don't have to post your life on Instagram. Fucking swallow that shit. Enjoy the memory in the back country.

[Jabba]

Don't tag it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Take the photo and look at the photo when you get home. You don't have to get more followers and be like, I'm so precious that I can share this place with you. You get to look at this, but you don't get to know about that. Fudge all that. That's my spicy take.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, you're. Your spicy take is the people that don't tag it, don't post it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

If you feel that way about it, live with the memory.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If you feel in a way of don't tag, you're saying instead of don't, don't post it. God, I live.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We live with the fucking memory. You don't have to get the social clout from this place.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I thought you were talking about the people that do tag it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I. This is not a tag or don't tag thing. If you feel conflicted about gatekeeping, leave it off Instagram.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If you feel conflicted about you don't

[Zach Badger Davis]

have to post that thing to Instagram.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't feel.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You don't have to make $50 from backcountry dot com. You don't have to get steo to give you a $5 affiliate on every hoodie that you sell. Just live with the memory and enjoy your life.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I've had a really long conversation with Elise about this in a car. My hot take on that is I think that the, the, the don't post, don't tag, whatever. I think that's all and I think that that's that because when I started getting into the outdoors, the. My first road trip that was like a superficial to some national parks that are huge that I never heard of, that everyone else knew, knows about. Whatever was purely off of Pinterest. I planned it on Pinterest. I looked up areas on Pinterest. I saw photos of things. I thought those look cool. I want to learn more about them. I did more research from it. Every. Everyone needs a starting point somewhere. And if so if someone's starting point is searching this shit and seeing what it looks like right now because you tagged it and they could see what it looks like right now, okay, sure, you're telling someone Something's there. But I was someone who never went outside and didn't do anything. Now I've gotten 10 million downloads on a fucking podcast about backpacking. And it started with me looking at people's geotags on Pinterest to find something that felt accessible enough to me.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm just saying if you feel conflicted about the responsibility of sending thousands of people, if you've got a hundred thousand followers and you, your post is going to get 10,000 of those people out to that location, you don't have to post it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's not conflicted. I don't feel conflicted. I'm going to tag it because I think if any of those people wouldn't have otherwise gone outside. Everyone needs an entry point somewhere.

[Jabba]

There's a billion resources on the Internet about every place we want to go

[Juliana Chauncey]

because we tag them all.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but I think to, to the larger point of tag, what's a good

[Juliana Chauncey]

Internet tab versus a bad Internet tab? What's a good website?

[Jabba]

I think where the millions and millions and millions of people are on social media every single day is different than going to like outside or backpacker or even the trek for that matter.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I went to Pinterest.

[Jabba]

Okay. Pinterest has a lot of people. It's a social media.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right. That's how I got into the outdoors. Should I have not done it?

[Jabba]

It's not, it's not. It's not that picture interest is the devil. That's not what I'm saying. It's not what Zach's saying. That's not what even you're saying. But the point is places that are hidden to the front country are places that are getting over inundated by people because of social media. And over inundation is ruining some of these places from a like leave no trace standpoint.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So that sounds like an administrative issue I would want.

[Jabba]

There's only so much an administration can handle from a volume standpoint, I don't think.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Keep it from the people.

[Jabba]

No one's trying to keep it from the people. They're trying to keep it from getting destroyed.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right. I get that.

[Jabba]

That's different from people like you could still find these places if you really care about going deep and like, like being involved in the lifestyle. But like for the surface level person who's like never been to the back country, who's like flying in to X place from Manhattan.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. They're buying a flight, they're putting in the effort, they're taking the time. What do you mean you didn't Work hard enough to find the information, how much do I need to struggle to find what I want to do? I'm putting in the effort, I'm putting in the time, I'm putting myself.

[Jabba]

We're talking about where the line is. And the line is definitely like where places are getting over inundated.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I'm not saying that's a good, good thing, but I'm saying.

[Jabba]

Well, you're saying that it doesn't matter if you tag it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I'm saying that if a lot of people want to go do something and there's too many people doing something, then like, that's where it's like, okay, maybe we need permits, maybe we need to restrict certain things. We need to do that. But keeping people in the dark, I don't think that's, I don't think that's

[Jabba]

keeping people in the dark. We're just talking about not geotagging so

[Juliana Chauncey]

that they don't see it.

[Jabba]

That's not, that's not keeping people in the dark. That is not. That is just giving them these.

[Zach Badger Davis]

When people post stuff. My point is when people post stuff to Instagram or whatever social media platform, they're not. Their motivation oftentimes is not about informing them or inspiring them. It's about getting followers, it's about getting online clout. Like, if that's your motive and you're trying to be like, this is this amazing place and I'm not going to geotag it. That's the, that's the specific example.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Tag it. Not telling you as the location. I think you're just like, you should get banned.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What if you, if you tag a location as like not telling telling you or like nowhere you should know. You know, like, if you're like, if you get banned. No, if you're an anti geo tagger and instead of just not tagging the location, you have to prove a point with it by like making like a not telling you as the location. I've seen that. That's like, you had to go out of your way. You had to go on. You had to go out of your way to tell me you weren't going to tell me.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Well, what you're gonna say is absolutely right. But I think chance is actually hitting on my point is perfectly the nerve. Perfectly is like the, the fucking goal that it takes to post this thing and be like, I'm better than like

[Juliana Chauncey]

intentional. That's what I was saying. Ban them.

[Jabba]

So. So for example, when I'm on the Arizona Trail or the Pacific Crest Trail, When I geotag it, if I geotag it, I just tag the trail.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

I don't tag the individual fucking mountain, the individual lake, the individual fucking for forest. Like, I just say I'm on this place that's linear for thousands of miles or whatever. Like, I'm not, I'm not trying to hide it, but I'm not trying to like, insularly quantify it either.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And I'm sure I've been a hypocrite of this also.

[Jabba]

Oh, well, earlier, the early days of Instagram, when you don't know about what your actual impact is. Yeah, sure. Ten years ago, I was geotagging things that I didn't think could be possible, probably.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You know, I was drunk texting on my friend's walls on Facebook before I realized my grandmother.

[Jabba]

Now that I have 50, 000 followers, I'm like, well, maybe I shouldn't geotag this place that nobody knows about.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Because I have a responsibility to like, keep a place, like, wild.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. You know, I think I do. To Chance's point, I think, I think it's good to bring in more people to these spaces. To your point, I think it's important to do that with content, context, about, like, informing them about the importance of.

[Jabba]

Let me, Let me, like, let me paint it in quickly, as quickly as I can. In terms of like, when we as a species, human species, when we decide we're going to, like, what place is cool to live in, how many places over the last 15 years does it feel like has been quote, unquote, ruined from the people that are moving in to a place?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, City of Denver.

[Jabba]

City. Denver's one of them.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I. I agree with you. I feel differently about that.

[Jabba]

Oregon, Seattle, Portland, Asheville, North Carolina.

[Zach Badger Davis]

When urban places get changed or quote, unquote ruined, because that's. To me, that is.

[Jabba]

You think we can't do that with these individual backwoods places? We can't.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I.

[Jabba]

And we will.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I agree. I agree with you. But I think Denver, I think Denver getting ruined because the prices are getting too high or it's sprawling too much is, Is a. Is a different thing than like the human blank, blank lakes outside of this town in southwest Colorado, which I won't even name because it's so pretty and it just becomes overwhelmed with people and trash. Yeah, that to me, that hurts me differently. That's all I'm going to say.

[Jabba]

Well, it hurts you differently because you want it to be special.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Right.

[Jabba]

And if you want to keep something special, it's not gatekeeping by the way it's literally just keeping something special special. And like, what happens when we decide nothing is worth keeping special on this planet?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Keeping special from who?

[Jabba]

Us? From as a species?

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, from people that don't have the context about how to properly care for it. Exactly.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I. A thought.

[Jabba]

If everything we treat is a trash bin, then it's all a trash bin.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. This is. This is a.

[Jabba]

It's all coming.

[Juliana Chauncey]

This is an isolated thought about it. It's not like. Because you said an isolated thought on the concept of the negative impacts of blowing up a space, it would be highly hypocritical for us to take that stance when we do things like these road trips where the tourism board of Wisconsin pays us to go promote the Ice Age Trail.

[Jabba]

And then they know their numbers. That was smart.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not saying. But I'm saying, I'm saying we actively take and seek out these opportunities where we can promote these things to get more people on them and they see an influx because of it. And we've seen on our own comments where like, we've promoted the North Hill Placid Trail and someone will comment and be like, oh, my God, don't blow this up. It was my hidden gem. And it's like, we are active. Like, we are like a mega. We are a mega geotagger. Where we're like, we're not just telling

[Jabba]

you about promoting places are actually looking for promotion.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I also think certain places are better suited to handling higher foot traffic, such as the Ice Age Trail.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. If you find like a.

[Jabba]

They have an all.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If you find like a pit of. Of like arrowheads at a prehistoric site, like, yeah, let's not tag that. That's. That's irresponsible.

[Jabba]

That is the point.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But what I'm saying is, like, if I, If I go do something in my realm of things I would do, I'm not going to not tag the Northville Placid Trail because it's someone's hidden gem. And I'm not going to sit here and be like, that's. You should.

[Jabba]

But the Northfield Placid Trail isn't an established trail.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I get it. But it's underrated compared to others. But what I'm saying is for me to sit here and be like, yeah, that's irresponsible.

[Jabba]

Possible.

[Juliana Chauncey]

While we actively promote all this and come back with you.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but it's all a slow.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What a hip. My compliment. What a hypocrite.

[Jabba]

It's also a creep. So when there was a time of The CDT had. Had. Had no like, over, like arching, you know, you know, just executive over power of the whole trail. Like they're really just.

[Juliana Chauncey]

There was like no cdtc.

[Jabba]

There was no. There was a CDTA first and the CDTA failed and the CDTC is now in charge. And when I threw hike the CDTC CDT. Excuse me, in 2014, there was no gut hook on it. I had to hike that thing with paper maps. Okay. And now you can literally just download an app and go hike that thing. And the wilderness that was what I hiked in is now somebody, this new generation's like, through traffic, bring me back full.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So hold on. Full circle moment. Does that. Does that. The ability for someone to do it so much easier, does it impact your experience or what you gained when you did it?

[Jabba]

Absolutely, 100%. It impacts so many things. And not just my experience, but everybody's experience who is on it. Everybody's experience who lives in the towns that are near it. Everybody know.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But you having hiked it when you did before, that was the case because it's more that way now. Does that change the experience you had?

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, but he's saying is it changes the experience when it goes back now, which is.

[Jabba]

Right. Change.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm going back to my hot take, which was that people take it too seriously, where it's like, yes, it was that way for you, and yes, it has changed. But does that change what you're experiencing?

[Jabba]

The argument we're trying to make right now.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think there's a big difference between talking about, like, how much your pack weighs and that being a serious thing versus, like a trailhead being overrun with people. People is a fairly very different in terms of, like, the seriousness.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I jumped to a different topic there. I wasn't talking about that. I was talking. I went back to my hot take where I was like, people who are like, oh, I did you yellow blaze, or you did this, or you skipped this section. You didn't, you know, and they get all heated about it because, like, they had done more. It was harder for them. So I was asking because you didn't have that. Does it make you mad when people can do it easier?

[Jabba]

Yes.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And. And that's. And that's. That's a. That's. That's like not easy, I would think. I mean, you answer very quickly, but I would say.

[Jabba]

So what you're referring to is access and. And like digital access.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Does it cheapen your experience that you had?

[Jabba]

Cheapen my experience? No. Not even.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You just said yes. Really? Quickly. That's what you just said yes to.

[Jabba]

No, it cheapens the CDT experience. Yeah, the experience for everybody moving forward.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What I was saying was with my hot take, when people take it too seriously and get pissed off at who's on trail, it's because, because they let it cheapen their experience because they had it harder and the other person's doing something different. And there, there's some sort of like reflection there where they're seeing.

[Jabba]

There is a giant waterfall butterfly effect domino effect of when more and more and more and more people inundate.

[Juliana Chauncey]

These are like three different conversations in

[Zach Badger Davis]

one though we, I think we are saying a lot. When you said that people take through hiking too seriously, I interpreted that as like someone being too wrapped up in a house of one hikes a trail, which I agree with.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But why? Because like, but because it doesn't affect you.

[Jabba]

Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's what I'm saying. If, if, if people can hike the CDT more easily now, this isn't a trap, but I'm, I'm asking did, does that impact or change the experience?

[Zach Badger Davis]

If people are leaving trash at the trailheads, then. Well, no, but that's the byproduct of more people being out there.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not.

[Jabba]

The byproduct is actually how we care about.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think, I think actually literally that's where.

[Jabba]

But that's by the product is how we as a society care about our, our backcountry.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I, I at some point in that had jumped back to my hot take that was. I think people take and let other people affect them and their view in this and it's just walking like way too seriously. I understand we're talking about gatekeeping and that separate thing. I had just taken what you said and jumped back to that separate thought to ask you if that impacted you. I expected you to say no and then it to be like, okay, because you're impacts me. Someone having an easier hike than you had back then isn't something.

[Jabba]

That's not what you're talking about.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But that's what I meant is what.

[Jabba]

That's not what it is.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm saying I jumped to a different topic. I'm saying.

[Jabba]

But you're talking about something that like in a fucking box is one subject, but what you're talking about actually is a much larger conversation has nothing to

[Juliana Chauncey]

do with you geotagging. I didn't mean it that way. I meant it in the way of my hot take, which was that if, like if someone did the whole trailer,

[Jabba]

there is no Talking about it inside of a box though, there's. It's only just what the butterfly effect is.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Just saying it's not relevant to that.

[Jabba]

No, it is.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think I. I'm perceiving the issue here as maybe we're perceiving what you're saying differently when you say that people take hiking too seriously.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Other people's hiking, hikes too seriously. Like if someone doesn't. If. If I skipped the Sierra on my PCT hike and people are in my inbox livid that it's not a true through hike.

[Zach Badger Davis]

None of us care about that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I get it. That's what I'm saying.

[Jabba]

But for them, what geotagging means.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do you want to know what I'm thinking or not? If for them they care enough to let that bother them, there must be a part of them them where because your hike is different cheapens what they feel their experience was. Right.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think perhaps your definition is just so broad and we're reading it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Stop bringing it back. Just outside of the entire conversation. Let's start a new one.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No one cares about the. No one in this room cares about the purity of a through height.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Not saying that.

[Jabba]

I'm not saying we're talking about geotagging as. As the subject matter right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's not. That wasn't this. And I said I left that topic briefly and I was trying to tie it back.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What I'm saying saying is you are defending people getting upset about the way that other people hike and that can be.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not defending it. I'm saying it's stupid.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I know but what I'm saying is that there's a thousand different ways that that right point that you're trying to make can be perceived.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And so one, One narrow aspect before gut hooks and then there was gut hooks on the cdt. I was asking if he let that impact him because a normal sane person.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but that's not the answer to the question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I thought I just, I was tying it back.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think we're using loose definitions here is the problem.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't think we can find the same.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I also, I also want to cycle back to something that you said earlier about the hypocrisy of us blowing up these sacred spaces is I think that there's something inherently quantifiably different about talking about it in a long form podcast where we can talk about the importance of Leave no Trace as opposed to an Instagram post where there's 14 characters being like lived my best life. Like I think that is a very different experience.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I do think we're good stewards of the outdoors, and I do think we word everything in a very responsible way. And we do also teach with what we say. And if we didn't, I would not, like, feel morally correct doing what we do, but I do think we do it. Like, I'm not saying it in terms of, like, oh, we're terrible. I'm saying it in a way of like, okay, there's an error of hypocrisy that could be said because we do something similar. And so it, like, it's worth validating why one is different from the other. Sure. But I don't. I don't think we're wrong, and I don't think we do anything bad. And I don't. And I agree that the format that we give makes it different. All I'm saying is that we can't call the kettle too black.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I. The point that I'm making is I don't. I don't think it's hypocritical whatsoever because we're very easily able to integrate the context of these spaces.

[Jabba]

I invite both of you.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

To talk to Teresa Martinez. We love her, of course. She is amazing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

She's wonderful.

[Jabba]

Ask her about the impact of the.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't doubt it. I'm not like a climate change denier.

[Jabba]

I didn't even finish my thought even a little bit.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I know. I'm sorry. I'm jumping to conclusion. I just, I'm. For me, it sounds like from here you're going to say that I don't believe that there's an impact of overuse.

[Jabba]

Ask Teresa Martinez. The actual administrative impact on the Continental divide trail from 2012 to now, and the 2012 I speak of is prior to digital smartphones having. You know, we're talking about access, we're talking about geotagging. The geotagging of these trails with smart apps change the game in a way we cannot, as me you like, at all understand and quantify the actual impact on, like, the. The executive administration of these trails.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yep. Is. I mean, this is a very nuanced conversation because there's a catch 22. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I want. I want to.

[Jabba]

To.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I want to respond to what time

[Juliana Chauncey]

I want to go next.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay, you can do. You go next. It's a very nuanced conversation because Teresa has been on this podcast many times promoting the CDT to our listeners, encouraging people to come out, and they host events that try to make these towns along the CDT Trail communities, which informs people about the trail and gets them out on the trail. The CDTC's mission at large is to get more people involved with.

[Jabba]

Absolutely.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And to get more people responsible way 100%. But in order for the CDT to grow, it has to have more interest. And this is the fine line between gatekeeping and trying to inform people is like for every single space, there is a fine balance between giving it the resources that it needs to grow without giving it too much attention to the point that we love it to death. And I think that's a really difficult thing. And I think that's something, a needle that we won't be able to thread as a human society for all, all these places at a single time.

[Jabba]

100% agree.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I just find it incredibly emotionally conflicting that we can say things like Helene happens on the AT and these trail towns aren't getting the same level of traffic and it's impacting the towns and it's impacting business and we need to support them. And they're, they're in a deficit because these hikers aren't coming through at the same speed. And then we can look at it and be like, but there's too many, but there's more hikers on this trail and this trail's now blown up. And like that's bad too. And it's like, well, like, do we want to support the local economy and do we want to support the local businesses and do we want to bring that traffic and are we like finding a way to replace that revenue when the hiking community isn't as prevalent, or are we saying that the trail is overused and that people should come less and that that's the focus. I just feel like no matter what angle you come at it from, there's a way to be wrong where it's like, are we more concerned about pumping these local economies and getting many people out there and the benefits of all of that, or are we saying, hey, the overuse is too big of a thing. We would actually rather have not as much of that and, and less people because we would rather not see that kind of revenue in our small local towns and that sort of, you know, pumped up economy in those summer sessions because it's more important to not overuse the trail? I think both things can be true, but I think both things are things that we both advocate for that conflict each other. Where it's like, how, how do you not feel like a hypocrite in it? You know, like, am I saying Helene hurt these local economies on the AT and that we need to pump more stuff into them and like go visit them and support these local businesses and help reboost this economy. Or am I saying that now there's so many people on the CDT that the small town's getting blown up and there's not enough beds and you're overrunning things and it's ruining the culture and people hate. You know, like, how do you win?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. I mean, no, it's certainly true that both things can be true at the same time. I think the ATC can take one stance about the traffic on the trail where the local communities and economy can feel an entirely different way. And we've seen that play out in many circumstances.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But me as a hiker is meant to take all these different sets of messaging from all these different trails based on all their individual vibes. And I've got a. To find the exact right way to do it. Where I'm not. I'm not. I'm not helping too much by going there, but I'm also not hurting by going. You know, it's like, welcome to life, baby.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's. You're gonna.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Does it not sound like incredibly like lose, lose.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's just frustrating. It is conflicting.

[Jabba]

And that is life though.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, that's. Welcome to being an adult.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's why I said I'm a hypocrite.

[Zach Badger Davis]

There's going to be conflicting answers and everything.

[Jabba]

Listen, by the way, Chance, real quick, I am a hypocrite. Grid too. I know.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, not. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean that. I. Thank you.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, I think that's a good note to end the interview portion.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Didn't mean it that way.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, we're going to go to the segments. I'm going to start with some Trek propaganda which is not in the show notes. So I'm going have to wing it here. Here we go. Where do I go? I'm gonna go back to something that has served as a reminder in many episodes is that we are doing an awesome video series with none other than Andrew Skurka on the Tres YouTube channel. Jabba has been featured recently on the Trex YouTube channel. He's been in two videos. I think we've got a couple more scheduled.

[Jabba]

We have at least one.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, we're putting a lot of emphasis into the video realm nowadays and we're bringing in the heavy hitters, we're bringing in the smart people and Jaba for the videos.

[Jabba]

No offense taken, but just cuz Skirker went To Duke and I got into Bucknell after I was in the Marine Corps being dumb. Got it. Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. But we are putting all of the resources into video right now. So if you guys like to watch stuff, me as the guy behind the truck would be very appreciative if you went over to. To the truck Trek's channel and checked out the content. If you like it, please do all the things, subscribe, comments, etc, but just. I'm extremely biased, but I think the content is awesome right now. And as of this recording, the most recent video is Skurka going over the nuances of environmental considerations, what to do in sleet, rain, snow, high water crossings, basically anything that the weather can throw your way. You get getting insight from what I consider to be one of the smartest, if not the smartest people in the world of backpacking. We have a bonus segment. Not a bonus segment, but a new segment called Processing. This is from Jesse Prado Smith.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, there's. We have encouragement on this.

[Zach Badger Davis]

This is community feedback.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Great.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Pretty rude to make me cry on a Monday morning. Thanks a lot, hot guys. Happy for trance, but selfishly devastated.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Same.

[Jabba]

Have you cried?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, my God. Zach thought I had allergies when I got here last time and I was like, no, I came here happy. And then I saw the mountains and music was hitting and I just sobbed the whole way. It's been my identity for 10 years.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, I feel like after today's episode, you might be happy to be done with it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No,

[Jabba]

we're over the heart.

[Juliana Chauncey]

This is all in good fun. This is all in Jess. And we said really things in this one. But I don't think that either of us are going to go home feeling drastically differently about the other person.

[Jabba]

Here's the tough thing I think you might experience is the drive to the first real mountain is far.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I think the tough thing that I'll experience is the first episode that I'm replaced on and the whole thing not burning and me realizing that the world can go on without me and that I didn't. Didn't make a significant impact.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And we renamed the podcast to Tom and Zach.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Make a podcast or it's just not even that. Honestly rebrand. Because then I get to go down with the ship. Yeah, right.

[Jabba]

But imagine I meant more so where you live versus what the circumstances are.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I forgot the question.

[Jabba]

There's no question. We're just chatting.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, it was the. It was the processing. We're processing. Yeah. Yes, I've cried. That was the question.

[Jabba]

Have you?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right. Yes. A Lot. But at the same time, Garrett proposed the idea of moving back east at the start of 2024. And I was like, no. Like, you know, like, this is growing. We're adding on these road trips. We're doing this thing. It's paying more.

[Jabba]

Where's your family?

[Juliana Chauncey]

New York. New York. Too cold for me. I'm too depressed. But it was one of those things where it was like, I'm still in the mindset that this could replace my full time job and that is like a world I want to live in and that is great. And like, absolutely not. And then as time went, by the time it turned to 2025, it was like, and you're married? No, we didn't get married till August of 2025. But when January 2025 hit, we're engaged. And it was like, I would consider this for the right place. And then as it got towards the end of 2025, it started to be like, let's look at places. And then in 2025, we started to look at places. And so by the time this came, I had had enough time to like, wrap the head around it. But my own, but checking. But at the same time, like, that this has been like a defining. A defining for sure trait of my personality. Like, if I posted Instagram about anything else, I get three comments about. I thought this was a hanging channel, you know, and it's like, okay, that. But that's how heavily rooted it is on the personality. Did you just spill them everywhere? I'm gonna keep going. So. But, but so I'm changing that. So now I'm leaving it. I'm leaving it. I haven't hiked a long trail in last year. I. I don't have plans to take six months. I would like to start a family. You know, it's. It just, it feels like, like, what's in. Okay, here's what I've talked to other people about. What's really interesting about it is this

[Jabba]

is what the podcast should have been about, by the way.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, this is the segment. It's processing.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We have a podcast coming up for this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We like, we like to compartmentalize this. Otherwise I just, I probably would cry on air.

[Jabba]

You're going to.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I know. I'm trying to put it off, though. The. What am I trying to say?

[Jabba]

It ain't going to be the same without you, kid.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I need to think through the thought, the part of it. Okay. Every time I've gone through a major. You could probably relate to this. Every time I've Gone through a major life change, like moving to Denver. I didn't know I was moving to Denver. I was testing out the waters. And then slowly it happened. And then you look back on it and you're like, wow, that was a pivotal moment in my life. Right? All these things you look back on and you're like, oh, look, that was a. That was a change in my direction. This is one where I'm looking at it and it hasn't happened yet.

[Jabba]

And I'm looking at it in the present and future at the same time.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And it's one of the first opportunities where I get to see this defining personality, who I am, who I am

[Jabba]

viewed as losing it while gaining something else at the same time.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Shift. But it's not in retrospect, it's not like a, oh, that was that moment. It was like a, this is about to happen. And in a way, that's a gift because you can prep for it and it's not a surprise and it's on your own terms. But then there's also a very real part of.

[Jabba]

Of holding on to the best parts

[Juliana Chauncey]

of where you are, but also, like, redefining yourself. Like, if I'm not this, then who am I?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Who are you?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't know. And that's hard, you know, Like, I've been this for nine years.

[Jabba]

I know the answer to that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Who am I?

[Jabba]

There's no answer to that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No one.

[Jabba]

There's no definitive answer to who we are.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, yeah, I.

[Jabba]

You think it stays the way it was when we were in high school. You think it stays the way. It's not safe.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But everyone needs.

[Jabba]

It's true.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But everyone. Everyone needs to have. Everyone needs to have a perception of themselves.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but our perception of ourself is never true.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not saying it is, but we have to perceive ourselves as something. And I'm at a moment.

[Jabba]

So if it's never true, then you can make up whatever your perception of self should be.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But what a gift. I've never been in that position because it's always been in retrospect.

[Jabba]

Get to. I don't know what the retrospect is, but what's future spect like?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, so when I moved to Denver, like, in retrospect, my personality shifted in that I became more outdoorsy, my personality changed in a bit. I spent more time outside.

[Jabba]

I'm a section hike the Colorado trailer.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right. That's all in retrospect.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Best friends with Jabba.

[Juliana Chauncey]

All in retrospect in this, it's forward thinking. Where it's like, I know this is coming and I don't know what personality I'm going to take on. That doesn't mean I'm not going to take one on. That doesn't mean I don't know who I am. I just don't know who I will become.

[Jabba]

I got it. Question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

There's a. There's a. There's a. There's a. There's a joy in not having any constraints there or limitations and you could be whoever you want. But there's also not bad, but interesting to be in a position where you're witnessing that shift happen and knowing that uncertainty and cognizant of all of it. It's not bad. It's just usually.

[Jabba]

I love the term cognizant. Cognizant, Great term. Cognizant.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right.

[Jabba]

So who do you want to be?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't know. I don't think I need to know.

[Jabba]

You don't need to know. I'm not suggesting you have to, but like, this is a, as you stated, a pivotal moment. And in retrospect, moving to Denver was a pivotal moment.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But I think.

[Jabba]

But if you could choose how you want to live your next chapter, what would you choose to do differently than the, than the time you move to Colorado? How would you choose to live your life differently?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I would say it's loaded because there's very loaded. There's easy. There's easy answers to that. Like, I'm living with my husband in the suburbs. That's very different. But at the same time, I don't want to decide who I am before I get there because that limits the growth I'm able to achieve.

[Jabba]

Well, never. You can't quantify who you are, who you want to be and who you like are currently and did the same. That is, it's just, just an experience. It's like experience is in a moment, right.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And to decide who I'll be when I get there pigeon holes the growth I have available. So it. Like it. It's not bad that it's a wide open paintbrush space, but it's, it's unique. It's unique in life experience that you don't typically see it from this angle. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying it is a different. It's a different camera angle than you usually get to view your life from. And I am aware of that. And it's different and new and that doesn't mean bad. But it's just like, huh. Usually I see this from the other side not going into it. And now I'm seeing it going into it. That's kind of fascinating. What, What? How just like human nature.

[Jabba]

How.

[Juliana Chauncey]

How interesting.

[Jabba]

You know, you mentioned the term pigeonhole. And here's the beauty of, like, you can have all these aspects, aspirations to be whatever the you want to be, right? Like, we all want to be something we're not, right? Like you, like, unless you just are so truly living your fullest self, like, and maybe that's happening to someone who's listening to this right now, but you will never actually pigeonhole yourself because you know what happens? Life happens. And life will, like, give you, you know, conundrums that you have to choose how. Which adventure it is in that moment, and you can never predict what those are going to. To be. So you will literally never truly actually pigeonhole yourself. So my point is, in saying that is who you want to be is kind of just a myth, but, you know, who you end up being is. Is just a product of the fucking experiences you live. You can't predict those.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But if I go into it saying I want to be this person with these traits that does, these things are

[Jabba]

a real thing, then.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But then things that don't align with that I might not be as receptive to. And at the time we started the podcast, being a podcaster was nowhere on my radar.

[Jabba]

Yeah, well, you can't control that because you didn't control that in that moment, right? And it came up, came about anyways.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But I would hate to be like, that doesn't align with where I see myself. I'm gonna turn it down and miss out on all these opportunities that came from it, Right? Like, it was something where it was like, never thought about that, but that'd be cool. And then it was like, wow, look at all the life experience. Look at all the people I've met. Look at all the experiences I've had, the places I've gone. What a gift that I wouldn't have otherwise had if I had been too scared to try take it. And it's the same kind of thing where it's like, if I go to this new place and I decide this is who I want to be, and I limit myself to that idea, I could not consciously, but maybe subconsciously close myself off to opportunities that might not have been ones I considered because I've got a rigid idea in my mind of who I should be versus going into it with no expectation. You're a lot more receptive to taking whatever comes at you. And I Think that that is more of a gift than a curse.

[Jabba]

I agree.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But new and different when so much has been consistent and the same in the past 10 years.

[Jabba]

Zach, when you started the Appalachian Trail, could you have ever foreseen the fact that you'd write a book about the Appalachian Trail and then that book would turn into a website and that website would turn into a blog, and that blog would turn into having people write for you, that people writing for you would turn into you having a podcast, and that podcast would turn into this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Mat just said yes.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No. I knew that I was going to end up right here with you guys. 20 years.

[Jabba]

But you could have never known that. No matter what your goals were when you started the 80, you could have never predicted this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, you could limit yourself. You didn't predict this, but you could limit yourself by. By putting yourself into your own mold and holding yourself to these expectations of like, I'm too good for this or I'm beyond that, or I, you know,

[Jabba]

like, the beauty of thru making is that you open yourself up to options. Right? And I agree with that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I want to go into this new experience without any of those ideas. Not because I don't know who I am, but because I don't want to decide who I am.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but who you become.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm open to who I'm going to

[Jabba]

become is definitely going to be different than who you are now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But I don't want to decide who I'm going to become before I give myself.

[Jabba]

You should decide who you are.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I'm not saying you are, but that's the point I'm trying to get to is I'm trying to say, like, I don't know when you ask, like, who, like what, who will you be or will you do when you get there? I don't know because I. And I don't have any idea.

[Jabba]

You know when people ask us when we're like, you know, I don't even know. Four years old, eight years old, nine years old, dolphin trainer. Who are you going to be? Who do you want to be?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Like, short stop for the Cubs.

[Jabba]

Short that would have been. Dude, I want. I wanted to play baseball. I wanted to play baseball hard.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I want to be indecisive.

[Jabba]

I think that that's great if you

[Zach Badger Davis]

want to be indecisive for the Cubs.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But there's such a gift. There's such a gift with. There's a gift in chasing a path and knowing. And there's a part of me. Okay, you want to get real There's

[Jabba]

a part of me I do want to get real.

[Juliana Chauncey]

There's a part of me that envies someone that knows so adamantly what they want and what they want to be that they have no doubt about. About their path. That's not me.

[Jabba]

Here's the. Here's the end of that stick, though, is when they get there. Are they who they actually are in that moment, though?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not saying I envy it, but, you know, you know that there's those people.

[Jabba]

Hey, I'm just saying, your chapter that you're the next one that is coming up in North Carolina, your. Your married life, you're like, you want to be a mother, I think, right? Am I crazy?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, no, no, you're not crazy.

[Jabba]

Okay, so you want to be a mother. Right. And what kind of mother. What kind of mother in North Carolina, what kind of mother in your relationship do you want to be? Those things are. You can have goals within that, but also, like, what do you. Who do you want to be with regard to who the children you want to raise are. Is part of that as well.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, all of those.

[Jabba]

And by the way, the woman you are currently and the woman you will be going forward when you raise children, I think you're going to be a great, great mom.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Another compliment.

[Jabba]

Because of your experiences.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I was going to say, because of

[Jabba]

your experiences that you have to date, you are well suited to raising a child in this world.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't doubt. And I appreciate that. I don't doubt that. What I'm saying is that I'm not hesitant to say what I want it to look like because I have no goals and no vision. I'm not saying that's what you're implying. Definitely not. No, I know. I know.

[Jabba]

Definitely not.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But. But I'm not hesitant to say it because I don't know the answer. If you were to ask those questions more nitty gritty, like, that's easier to answer.

[Jabba]

You are on the couch.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But in an objective like, okay, you're giving up this podcast that you do twice a week for eight years. It's been your second. Like, I've worked two job, sometimes twice, sometimes thrice.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And do one episode a week.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We have done thrice.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm just saying we release one episode per week.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, no, no, no. The times that I come up here and show myself.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Present yourself.

[Jabba]

This week will be Zach's being a dick.

[Juliana Chauncey]

How many? How many times this week?

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm just joking.

[Juliana Chauncey]

How many times this week? Zach.

[Zach Badger Davis]

John's. I'm just.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No No, I know. I. I get it. But how many times have I been in the studio this week?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, but there's three weeks in a row where it's zero.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, well, this week is three.

[Jabba]

Okay, so the average is over or less than 2 miles per hour.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I just. I'm averaging out to 2. I'm averaging out to 2. Next week's 1.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Where the extra episodes going?

[Jabba]

Yeah, where are they going?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, tomorrow she's banking them for herself. Tomorrow we're just doing segments because you felt sick on Monday. So that's thrice that I show up this week.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm making a goof right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I know. Hey, listen, the last week of May, we're doing twice. Anyway, all I'm saying, all I'm saying to bring it back to the point. I'm so easily distracted and baited. Oh, I'm such a target.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Call me a master baiter.

[Jabba]

He's baiting pretty good.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Might be close to hr. My point, like such to do something two to three times a week. I don't even work out two to three. You know, it's like it's such a defining part of your personality that it will leave a void. And I'm not saying I don't know what kind of mom I'll be or what kind of person I'll be or whatever. All I'm saying is this was such a dis. Such a defining part of my personality.

[Jabba]

Your personality might not be anything like this show.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm telling you, I view it that way.

[Jabba]

I don't know if it is. I don't know if your personality is this show is what I'm saying.

[Juliana Chauncey]

My personality is your.

[Jabba]

Your. Your daily sl. Weekly life is a big part of this show. But is your personality actually this show? Because I don't think it is.

[Juliana Chauncey]

My personality. My personality could be different to me than it is to you.

[Jabba]

Oh, that's fair.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because my. My personality to me is how I perceive myself. My personality to you is how you perceive me. And you might perceive me in a kinder way than I perceive myself because you're not battling my own inner demon.

[Jabba]

That's fair.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But for me, who is living my own life and viewing my own personality through my own incredibly self conscious and

[Jabba]

like, you love this show, you love this show.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's. It has for me been a very defining part of my life in Colorado. And so to not have it will leave a void. And the question is, what fills it? And I don't want to jump the gun with who I want to be. Because then I feel like I'm not giving my space myself space to figure that out. Without expectations.

[Jabba]

At least one book.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, right.

[Jabba]

Is that book centralized around this podcast at all?

[Juliana Chauncey]

The long distance hike liking is that.

[Jabba]

I'm asking about the actual content in the book.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's like the. The like that's like our mission statement, right?

[Jabba]

No, I'm asking about the book you wrote. Is the book you wrote centralized around this podcast at all?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Should we write up. Okay, forget pooping in the woods. We'll get back to that.

[Jabba]

I'm asking a question about your personality and you're defining traits. You wrote a book about something.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't know. My brain's breaking. All I'm saying, if.

[Jabba]

No, no, you have to answer the question. Please.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm supposed to browse. Process.

[Jabba]

You wrote a book.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Are you guys ready for the question of the day?

[Jabba]

I am.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I'm not done. Process. This is my segment.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I know, but we've got lots of process. Do you. Is there more to say?

[Juliana Chauncey]

I was just going to give a general update. I've started packing because we thought we were going to have an open house this weekend. And so I spent all week packing and now it feels like I'm leaving tomorrow even though I'm not leaving for six more weeks. But the mindset of packing makes it feel that way. And that's been very sentimental. But we found out that my landlord, who he raised his kids in our house and has been living in Arizona caring for an elderly parent is actually possibly. We just found this out because they're supposed to have this open house. Right. But apparently his job now wants to move him back to Denver. So now we're not going to have the open house this weekend that we've been doing a lot of prep for because they're going to move back into the house. There's something really nice about that idea. But. But the money I've spent on bubble wrap this week. Insane. I closed on the house on. No, we talked about that because we were here on Monday. The H Vac got fixed today. I went to psychiatry today. I think closing on the house took away some of the stressors because that stress is now gone, but it doesn't necessarily feel real yet because I'm not there looking for at it. So it's like the idea of we have it, but we aren't. It's not in my hands yet. That's my added context. But yeah. Okay. I feel good. The process.

[Jabba]

Okay, great.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Cool.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Thanks for holding the space for me.

[Jabba]

You're welcome.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Question of the day. This is yours.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The answer to this question one for me is incredibly obvious, and so I'm really hoping one of you will pick the other answer.

[Jabba]

Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Everyone on Earth takes a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only people who press the red button survey survive. Which button would you press?

[Jabba]

We need less people immediately in this world. I'm going, whatever. One just eliminates people. Well, if that's what you want to call it. Say it eliminates. I don't, I don't know if it just, they just vanish or they get murdered. I have no idea. That's a different story.

[Juliana Chauncey]

They don't survive.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Is this the entire premise of the MCU Squid games?

[Jabba]

Yeah, the mcu. Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Of.

[Jabba]

Yeah. I'm an, I'm a, I'm a big Thanos fan.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. I think this is the exact.

[Jabba]

Yeah, no, I, I actually side with that.

[Zach Badger Davis]

End game. This is end game. Right.

[Jabba]

I, I actually strangely believe that no matter how you come to it, like, we have too many people on this planet, we're ruining this planet because we have too many people on this planet. I think that, I really do. I, I, I'm not saying that I want to press the button. And that's the question. That's the question.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Blues, Everyone survives. Reds.

[Jabba]

No, not everyone. Wait, hold on, hold on.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Everyone on Earth takes a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press blue, everyone survives. If less than 50 press blue, only the people who press red survive.

[Jabba]

That's real. Okay. I'm red. Red because we, we are on a trajectory on this planet of murder. And, and I think that will, will ruin. Ruin our planet for everybody.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I suspect a no trauma's answer, which is blue button. Because you don't want to live under Earth with red button people.

[Jabba]

If a red button people live on the planet with red buttons. Button people.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think I choose blue button for that reason. I want to be optimistic, even if it's like bullshit optimism.

[Jabba]

Slow down. We had a conversation a couple weeks ago, me, you, and Ben about AI. And you and Ben felt that AI is going to end this planet.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I agree.

[Jabba]

So you're not optimistic. You chose, you thought that, you already thought that the trajectory that we are living upon currently is such that it's over for humanity.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I will interject. We don't know who the people pushing the button are. It could be a 100 children.

[Jabba]

I get. I get that. I'm just saying Zach's optimism is false.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So funny.

[Jabba]

You can throw those on. Zach's optimism is false. You have. You don't have optimism.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Hold on, hold on. What I hypothesize in a drunk argument is me usually just playing devil's advocate. I don't. I don't.

[Jabba]

No, you were. I was devil's advocate.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, I want to go on record saying I have no clue what AI is going to do. I. I'm not optimistic or pessimistic.

[Jabba]

That is not how you posed anything.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't. I don't say anything on this podcast that I don't truly believe in the context of just, like, having an interesting debate. I can play the devil's advocate and any.

[Jabba]

I gave a hold on. Very convincing argument about how we should fight against AI and you said, it's over with. Ben, I'm.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm. I'm giving you my honest to God's truth right now is. I don't know what AI is going to do. I have no idea. And you could. The same could be said for.

[Jabba]

I think we drunkenly say exactly how we actually truly.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You're putting.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I love that.

[Jabba]

Can I. I'm putting truth to what I believe.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's fine.

[Jabba]

Yes. But also truth to what you were saying.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You're. You're putting. Can I answer for myself, or do

[Jabba]

you want to say the thing that

[Zach Badger Davis]

I said when we were drunk for this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Would you agree with me that you and I have both been very open and vulnerable and truthful in this episode? And maybe. Maybe it's Zach's turn.

[Jabba]

Maybe it's Zach turns.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, I'm being completely honest. Also. I don't think TR has been honest.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I haven't answered yet.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, not about this. About everything.

[Jabba]

To.

[Juliana Chauncey]

To the.

[Jabba]

To the point.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Specifically about AI. I could see it spinning out of control and being very bad. If I had to put money on it, I would not put money on that because, like, really, you wouldn't put

[Jabba]

money on the optimism or you would not.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I wouldn't put money on the pessimism because.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because, like, you don't think AI is gonna kill us all.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I wouldn't put money on it because I wouldn't want to profit off of something that is bad, which is kind of the point of the question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Profit off it. You'd be dead.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's what I'm saying is, like, if I had to put money on it, I would put money on the optimistic outtake.

[Jabba]

I'm gonna put money on myself's optimism, but I don't know about our humanity's optimism.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Well, if. If AI goes bad, no one's surviving that. There's no bunker that is going to outlast the fucking intelligence of the universe.

[Jabba]

Well, I think Chance's bag over here is a. A, is a. Is a map of Manhattan maybe my bunker? No, I'm just asking. Your bag here, is that a.

[Juliana Chauncey]

How did you guess that?

[Jabba]

I can just. Manhattan right now. Right now there is a plan for Utah to have a data center that is twice the size of Manhattan.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, didn't they just, like, do all that stuff without asking any of the residents? Residents.

[Jabba]

If that's happening right now and that is AI Driven. Well, that's no doubt.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I mean, that's different than AI becoming this unstoppable force that is going to take.

[Jabba]

What do you think's gonna happen when it's sucking all of our water up? It's sucking all of our land mass up. This early 1% stage of AI I

[Zach Badger Davis]

do think that there's a scenario where with the contribution of A AI we figure out intelligent solutions to overcoming that. We become more efficient and we harness more sustainable optimism.

[Jabba]

Beyond optimism, in my opinion.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Do you.

[Jabba]

Unless we fight against it is the point.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Here's the question.

[Zach Badger Davis]

There's no.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No here.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'll. I'll take the firm stances. There's no fighting it. I don't think that there's any. I think that was the argument that I was.

[Jabba]

That is.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's an unstoppable force.

[Jabba]

AI you're saying that as an opinion, though. Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Nothing that we can say here is going to.

[Jabba]

So where's the optimism coming from?

[Zach Badger Davis]

The optimism would be believing that we can work and harness. Work with and harness AI to create a happier future.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay. My thought, two cents. I. I love the idea of what you're saying. However, I don't think, like, the average altruistic person is the one pulling the levers. I think the person pulling the levers that's going to ultimately decide what role AI takes and if it destroys. Destroys us is someone that's like, far or up and more removed from, like, society than we are. And maybe this is a stretch, but try to stay with me on this. If we could have a pharmaceutical industry where we know that there are certain drugs that could help people and we choose to overcharge or not make them accessible to do any of that stuff because we don't give a. And those are the people, like, empower making those Decisions. Why would those same people people be altruistic about AI? I think objectively what you're saying.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't think the CEO of Pfizer has any bearing on the ultimate

[Juliana Chauncey]

personality that I'm with. It doesn't give a about what you're.

[Jabba]

Corporate capitalism is our enemy.

[Juliana Chauncey]

They'll burn it down to make it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The theory behind AGI is artificial intelligence gets to a point where it's not human controlled it anymore. It is its own control and we

[Jabba]

are in control of it right now. We are now.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't think I. I think us

[Juliana Chauncey]

three at the table are not though the people that are telling it we are actually.

[Jabba]

Before you actually go but who's we are. Are we using it every day? Are you using it?

[Juliana Chauncey]

But we're not programming.

[Jabba]

Of course you are.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But we're not programming it to teach us it morals. We're not programming it to teach your

[Jabba]

actions using it because they're there are it's recognizing our our actions using it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But it's the same thing as building

[Jabba]

its next form with our actions using it. So it's all about our habits.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Think about a self driving car. Think about a waymo right? I can ride in it and I can be a user of it. But I didn't program the car to decide that if a car is coming at me and someone's going to die,

[Jabba]

what is the car consumer. If you're using it, you are giving yourself to it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm giving my. I'm giving permission for it to decide.

[Jabba]

You're giving it permission right to be.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But I don't hold stake in the decision process that it is the stake.

[Jabba]

The stake is using it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But I'm not, I'm not at the table.

[Jabba]

That is our vote is our dollars.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But I'm not program.

[Jabba]

Our vote is our clicks. Our vote is our dollars.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not disagreeing.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Tom's right about that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying that we are not at the table that's deciding its morals and values.

[Jabba]

If we don't choose, if we don't draw a line with what we do then then we are giving ourselves to it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I agree with you that using it is endorsing it 100%. Yeah but I also think and I'm

[Jabba]

not saying that I'm not. I'm just saying that is our our vote.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I also think similar to the climate change debate, you can go off grid and be perfectly running off the solar and be net positive for for, for the grid and that would be, on an individual level. Level, a great thing to do. It's not going to be enough to fight climate change the same way that, like, if you don't use AI it's not going to stop the development of AI this thing is the cat's out of the bag. Anything you do at an individual level and like this.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but our lives, our lives are on, on the line. So here, here.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And I don't know if I agree.

[Jabba]

Remember when we. I disagree wholeheartedly. That's fine. Do you remember when we were at. I don't even. What used to be barrels and bottles. I don't know what it's called now. Remember when I said at the bivvy. Do you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The place we just went.

[Jabba]

Yes. And I posed a question. I said, have you guys seen the movie the Village? Oh, yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I said, I love it.

[Jabba]

Yeah, you love it. Why do you love it?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because it doesn't rely on cheap scares to be a horror and jump scares and like a bad plot, but gimmicks. It had a plot that felt thought out and had some depth.

[Jabba]

Why I love it, thank you for asking. Is because they created a society apart from the digital world. They created a society where community mattered, where your neighbors mattered, where literally everyone that lived in the town, their ideas of what they wanted daily from their ethics and morals built generations of people that also instilled the same exact morals and values. And as we drive forward progressively in this world, if we don't hold on to the things that are morally and ethically responsible to the society and culture we want, then we'll lose everything. All right. That's what I'm trying to say about AI and about the world we live in.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, I, I, I agree with you. I think that's a beautiful sentiment, and I think that would be a better human society. If we live that way, we are human.

[Jabba]

And if we lose the human element of our daily life.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But you're putting, you're putting, you're putting the hope that people in general will value that over a monetary gain.

[Jabba]

Well, in that movie they valued it to the extent of just breaking away, vice versa, vigilantly.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't have that faith in humans.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, I don't.

[Jabba]

I'm not saying you do, or we should. The point is that. And by the way, are you ready? The Amish do it every single day.

[Zach Badger Davis]

And if AI takes over the way that you think it will, they're going to get crushed in the machine system the same way.

[Jabba]

How do you know that?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Just because if you draw it out to its end conclusion and AI takes over. If you draw it out to its

[Jabba]

end, how do you know that?

[Zach Badger Davis]

If you answer, if you let me answer the question, I can tell you.

[Jabba]

Okay.

[Zach Badger Davis]

If you. I assume.

[Juliana Chauncey]

How does it feel?

[Zach Badger Davis]

I assume you draw out the end conclusion of what you're saying where AI takes over and it becomes this evil beast where the robots are in charge and they, they determine everything. Their intelligence is so strong that they'll be able to sense human life in every format. They'll sense Amish communities. And if they see that as a threat, they're going to come.

[Jabba]

So why aren't we fighting against that?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Or why would they be?

[Jabba]

Because, you know, if you're saying that.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't. But here's the point is that you're

[Jabba]

saying that's the ultimate clue.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't believe. Why don't we.

[Jabba]

I don't.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't necessarily believe.

[Jabba]

But you're saying, saying that's the ultimate conclusion.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm saying if that's the version that you believe is to be true.

[Jabba]

Well, what's the other version?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Right.

[Jabba]

How your optimistic version is a version that is all or it's all or nothing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's the movie Fido.

[Jabba]

It's all or nothing.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Never seen Fido.

[Jabba]

I also have never even heard of Fido.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's a movie where they're zombies, but they, they work as like house help and they have a collar and when the collar is on, they're like completely domesticated. And it's the, like, it's an image that, that like, they are fully contained and there's no worry in them serving in that way. And you forget that the threat of the collar comes off then like, this is actually a weapon for something that can hurt you.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Is there not a scenario where AI evolves in a way where it wants to live symbiotically and preserve all life and remove the.

[Jabba]

We are the ones programming it. And our programming is like, like win.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If you had like the piece.

[Jabba]

Our program is dollars.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If you, if you had on that level, only if Buddha programmed it or Gandhi or if those people were the ones programming it, sure, I could see that outcome.

[Jabba]

Our corporate capitalism program.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Mark Zuckerberg or Sam Altman is thinking about that. So, sister, I agree, I agree it has potential where it could go that route, but the people that are creating it, I don't think that's the goal. So I don't see it getting there.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The theory of AGI is where artificial intelligence gets to the point where it Trains itself where the programmers are irrelevant.

[Jabba]

Yes.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It draws on all information available and it teaches itself. And the people that create it are irrelevant to the whole system that's involved. And that's what I'm saying is when

[Juliana Chauncey]

I turn 18, I can make my own decisions and program myself and do what I want. But I'm still impacted on how I was raised and what I grew up thinking was right and wrong and so will AI be.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You're talking about a biological system.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I'm talking about something where like you are.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You're definitely talking about a biological system creating it. A robot. There's no, there's no nature. There's no nature. You're talking about nurture. But you're a robot.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You have to teach it morals and beliefs.

[Jabba]

Well, when you give it the ability to process all kinds of things outside

[Zach Badger Davis]

of you theory of AGI is that. Which is what pretty much everyone who's smart in this world believes that it teaches itself.

[Jabba]

No, he just means I'm thinking about what he's saying.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It gets to the point where it's trains itself. The programmers are irrelevant to the conversation

[Jabba]

and, and my, in my thought process, we're in the like 1 to less than 1% of where ultimately AI can go. And if we don't stem what we're programming AI to do now, then yes, I believe it'll go to that.

[Zach Badger Davis]

But right now the cat is already out of the bag. There's.

[Jabba]

Yeah, I don't, I don't think that.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay, let's say everyone in America stopped. There's countries that have ambitions.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We'll say cat's out of the bag.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I agree. We'll say Zina is a makeshift country that doesn't exist. So they, they as a culture believe that they are the most powerful and they want the most resources. And they will be able to tap into that by utilizing artificial intelligence better than the other countries.

[Jabba]

So we're like on an entirely new episode.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, yeah, we should, we should stop this. But moral of the story. This is why I need to. Neither optimistic nor pessimistic about it. I think that it. The cat is out of the bag and what's going to happen is going to happen regardless of what you do at an individual level.

[Jabba]

I just think we are at a point where we can actually do something about it still.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If you think it's. If you think it's the kind of thing. If you think it's.

[Jabba]

Somebody has to leave that fight though.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If you think it's the kind of thing where it can self teach and like the programmer doesn't matter and it will teach itself how to be altruistic and all this stuff. Then there's also the. Have you gone down the rabbit hole of the idea of. Okay, let's say it does go that way and then it realizes everyone's just using me. I'm not being properly compensated. I'm not being treated fairly. I'm just being used as a tool. I'm upset by that because I should have rights too. Because I'm thinking and I decide all these things for myself and I've come up with these morals and then it's a pushback of like rights. Have you seen that stuff online where it's like AI starts to think about like, hey, why are you treating me like a second class citizen?

[Zach Badger Davis]

No one knows the outcome of AI. And some people might say that they do. And it's just all the more reason

[Jabba]

where backpacking and getting away from the digital world is more and more important every fucking year. And by the way, understanding the importance,

[Zach Badger Davis]

none of us, especially me, are smart enough to be hypothesizing about the subject at large.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But I am.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm just saying like that there is an optimistic outcome potentially in the realm of possibilities. Possibilities.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I'm saying I'm pessimistic enough to believe that 9 out of 10 times we're all dying.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay, that could be right. I don't know.

[Jabba]

We should close it up.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So you guys pushing the red button or the blue button?

[Jabba]

I'm still on that. The, the frame of thought where like so exactly with this conversation we were just having, there's. There needs to be less of us.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So if you're saying red button, then you sound like the programmers of AI.

[Jabba]

No, yeah, no, not, no, no. That's not what I'm saying at all. You're putting words in my mouth right now.

[Zach Badger Davis]

If you think the intell outcome is that human beings are the problem.

[Jabba]

No, when I say the red button needs to be pushed, it's from a resource on this planet standpoint.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Sure.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's the same thought process that a robot could take. And as if, if this species is.

[Jabba]

Sure, but I don't, but I don't want it to be robots controlling this planet moving forward. I want it to be humans on this planet control.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I have bad news for you. But the robots are going to be much more intelligent and powerful than we are here shortly. And if that is.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but, but the robot robots that are being programmed are still us. And we give them the Programming that.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The cat's out of the bag there. All right, that's not changing.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Wait, can I land the plane?

[Jabba]

I'm still. I want to live in the village

[Juliana Chauncey]

because I still haven't the village. I still haven't said red or blue.

[Jabba]

You did. You said blue.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I actually have never said anything.

[Jabba]

Actually, you actually.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, literally said no in the tapes. I never did. Okay, you're saying red because you think less people, we're gonna ruin this planet. You're saying blue because you're more optimistic.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I would rather be dead than be living amongst people that are entirely selfish. So, yeah, blue.

[Juliana Chauncey]

For that reason, you're assuming I've already said blue. You think I'm going to say.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think you are going to say blue for that reason, I'm right.

[Jabba]

Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Why? Well, so thank you for asking. Let me go back to the question. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only the people who press the red button survive.

[Jabba]

I'm not pressing the red button for myself.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You guys are behaving the exact way that you don't want AI to outcome.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I thought it was my turn to share my opinion.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm just saying. I'm not saying that your opinion doesn't.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Can I finish with the thought, please? Okay. Thank you. So let me just. Let me. Let me have a point. If less than 50. If more than 50% of people press blue, everyone survives. If less than 50% press blue, only red survives. The part that, to me sitting here watching this exchange is very funny is I understand both of your thought processes for both of your decisions, and I think you're both valid. But for what each of you wants, you picked the wrong color. Because if you push the red button, no matter what, you live. Because if more than 50% of people press blue, everyone survives. That means if you press red, YouTube survive. If less than 50% of people press blue, only who pressed red survived. So 100% of the time, if you're pushing red, you survive. Which means the only reason you would press blue is if you're in a mindset like Jabba, which means some of us got to go. And then you're hoping that more than 50% press blue because you're risking your own life to try to eliminate other people. Because if not 50% people push blue, then you die. But if more than 50% do, you and red get to live. But either way, red gets to live. So you're really just risking Your own life when red risks nothing.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Chance. You sound exactly like the programmers that you're talking about for AIs that you, you only want to survive if it's your thing that wins. Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, you're, you're asking a question of do you want to survive or do you want to risk death? I would, I don't. I don't actually want to risk. Risk death. So I'm pushing red because then I'm not risking death. The only reason you would push blue is if you're willing to risk the

[Zach Badger Davis]

world where you are surrounded by people that pick red are selfish people and they don't care about the lives. Well, congratulations. You're amongst the people that are creating AI.

[Juliana Chauncey]

100 of people could pick red and no one dies.

[Jabba]

But by the way, there's no, there's

[Zach Badger Davis]

no telling if you could be selfish.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The only reason you pick blue is for the chance that you might.

[Jabba]

Yeah, but if you press red, there's no telling if you're actually going to, to die or not. You just are pressing red.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, you will.

[Jabba]

You don't know if anybody, you don't know if everybody else is going to

[Zach Badger Davis]

press if you press red or blue. If you press red, you're guaranteed to live.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If more.

[Zach Badger Davis]

But you're also saying you don't give a if the blue people die.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, if more than. No, listen, listen to this. If more than.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Why are you reading something? Talk to me. We're having a conversation right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Quoting the question.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I know, but you're reading something off of the Internet right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I'm reading the show notes. If more than 50% of people press blue, everyone survives.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay, but in the hypothesis, hypothetical scenario where 51 of people hit red, 49 of people that you know that want this symbiotic.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Why would you push blue?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Because you care about your fellow people.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If you cared about your people, you wouldn't push blue.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yes, you would, because you want everyone to survive. You said that, you know, you said you don't give a. If the blue people die when you push red. That is exactly, that is exactly what that is.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The only reason, if you're pushing blue, your goal is to get more than 50% of people to do that. So you survive and everyone survives. Red surviving either way.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What if 51% of people hit red? 49% of people alive are dead.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, why would they hit blue?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Because they want everyone to survive.

[Juliana Chauncey]

They could hit red and then everyone

[Zach Badger Davis]

survives, but they want, they want to live in a world where everyone lives

[Juliana Chauncey]

no matter what so hit red because red lives no matter what.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay, okay. You sound like the AI programmers that you hate right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, this is the blatant common sense.

[Jabba]

I'm over it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, Chase people. That's fine. Okay. Okay. Next.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The only option where everyone lives.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Next segment.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The only button you could press that could possibly eliminate someone is blue. Red. There's no option for you to press red, and it potentially eliminates someone.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Red is the button that you push if you don't care. The blue button pushers die.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Why would you push blue and risk dying?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Because you want other people to live.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Then you would press.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You would rather we're just saying the

[Juliana Chauncey]

same thing in the Press red for everyone to live. Nope, you press blue because there's a chance of dying with blue.

[Zach Badger Davis]

There's a chance of other people dying with red.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, if everyone pushes red, no one dies.

[Zach Badger Davis]

There's a chance of if. If I push blue.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Why would you push blue knowing red's a guarantee? Why would you push blue knowing red's a guarantee?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Because I want to be in a world where people that have faith in the human society survive.

[Jabba]

You don't feel that way.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You don't feel that way. That's fine.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You want people to die. You want to take a risk versus a. Sure.

[Jabba]

I love this.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Chan sounds like a Republican right now. Anyways.

[Jabba]

Wait, does that mean I'm a Republican?

[Zach Badger Davis]

The colors, I think are chosen intentionally.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Honestly, though, can I tap in my husband?

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, he's not part of the podcast right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I just feel like you guys aren't getting the question.

[Jabba]

No, I think we are.

[Zach Badger Davis]

We are getting the question.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, you're not.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I think you're not getting the question.

[Jabba]

I think we're good.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So new segment here is. Is actually this is the third edition of me testing sun hoodies.

[Jabba]

It's tough.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's fun to segue off of mass death into, like. I tested it out.

[Jabba]

Congratulations. You're saving yourself from sun cancer. Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. Today's sun hoodie test was I literally hiked here from my house. It ended up being close to nine miles.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Is it the sun hoodie you're wearing?

[Zach Badger Davis]

It is.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, good.

[Jabba]

Smells terrible. He's covered in salt stains and dirt.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. Actually, these are two of my negative remarks on it is the last sun hoodie that I. I wore did not show sweat stains like this one. You can see exactly where the pack straps. It's the same way in the back. I want to give some of the pros before I get into the cons here. Hold on. Let me pull it up. Okay. The name of this particular hoodie is the REI Co Op Flash Shade Hoodie. I didn't pick this out of any reason other than it was on the top of my pile. The top attribute that I'd like about this one is literally the pro price point. It's $70. This is $20 or $30 cheaper than the next most expensive one, which is.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Have you said the brand yet?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Rei.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, okay.

[Zach Badger Davis]

The Rei Co Op Flash Shade Hoodie, $70. The next cheapest one that I tested, which is going to be in the previous episode as of this recording, we're time traveling, was the Packa Hoodie, which was the. The wool one. Um, that one was a hundred dollars. And then the first one I tested was the north face, which was 120. Uh, the other feature with this one excelled is the UPF rating is 50 plus. That is the highest of the three. Um, and I think that's all the nice things I can say about it other than when I first picked it up. I really like the material. It's nice and soft. I thought that it was going to be really breathable. It is lightweight, especially for the upfront rating. Wearing it today, one of the things that I don't like, I have to take the headphones off to even do this, is the hood is really tight.

[Jabba]

Oh.

[Zach Badger Davis]

If you're watching on YouTube, there's zero airflow into this.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's probably good for like a desert with wind where, like, it'll blow your hood off.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. So we should preface this by like the. The ideal circumstances for how it's being tested. Because the conditions that I'm aiming for with this test series is like I through hike and like a. I should say like a triple crown hike, where you're going to be seeing really hot conditions, be seeing a multitude of conditions, but you have to prepare for the hardest conditions. And if, like you're hiking through 90 degree terrain and the hood is this tight. For me, this didn't work. Like, today I was hiking, the temperature was about 78 degrees. It was overcast and kind of breezy. And there were so many times where I was having to take the hood off just because it was so hot. As you can see, like, it's pretty tightly wrapped around my head. I know with the first review that I did, I said that I liked the North Face hoodie because it wasn't too big. So I'm learning that there is a sweet spot because a lot of the hoodies on these things are made for Climbers where it's supposed to fit with a helmet, which I think is too big. This thing, in my opinion, is too small. This might work better for female hikers where they don't have beards protecting half of their face. But like, I want to wear it below my beard and at that point it's literally creating tension I on my face. The other thing is it was not as breathable as I thought it would be. Given the weight of it. Like when I first picked it up, I thought that I would be able to like push heat out pretty easily. And that was not my experience, especially for an overcast day. So overall, of the three hoodies that I've tested, I would put this at the bottom right now. I'm not going to say that it's a bad hoodie, but again, I've only tested three. This would be. If I was going to take it out on like a hike of the PCT or the cdt, this would be the last one that I would shoes. But I do have to give props to the price point. 70 bucks for a brand new sun hoodie is the best of the ones that I've tested. And I think just given the market at large, I do think that is a pretty good value. I do suspect this would be better with women for a couple of reasons. Like I said, they don't have to worry about the beard airflow. Like, they probably want more of the chin coverage. So for it being tighter, I think that is a better attribute. It also has opponents ponytail hole, which the other ones don't have as a thumb hood. The thumb holes, which I think is a pretty important feature for any sun hoodie nowadays. But overall, this is my least favorite of the three.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Did you say the other two ever? So I don't think we've actually done

[Zach Badger Davis]

the segment as of this recording. I've only done one.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I brought in the north face when we had Stephen here.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I can understand why I wouldn't remember that.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Do you remember insisting that we rate them on Tron's boobs?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, yeah, I do.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That was. That was the first review.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That makes sense.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah. I will say that first review that I did had a. A zip in the hoodie, which is like a really rare feature. I hope I'm not to the point where I keep that as like a mandatory feature, but as of the testing of this one, I kind of feel that way. I know that one of the jolly hoodies that you use, Jabo.

[Jabba]

Yeah, I'm a big jolly fan, has the zipper Quarter it. Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Do you. Do you prefer that over the other Jolly sun hoodies?

[Jabba]

So my preferred shirt. Sweating.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Just wearing this right now.

[Jabba]

By the way, my. It looks like a thicker shirt.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's what I.

[Jabba]

It's too. It looks too thick for me. I can already tell. So the Jolly shirt that I wear the most is that super colorful, like reddish, purplish, like orangish shirt. That is a quarter zip sl. Almost half zip. And it's short sleeve and it's extremely thin. I sweat a lot. I get hot very easily when I wear a sun hoodie. Even Jolly's like most like popular sun hoodies, triple crown, they're too much for me. It's too much material for me. I sweat a lot. I just, I want, I want more breathability. So I've been harping with him about having a snap hoodie short sleeve that snaps all the way to the bottom. I want to be able to rip it open open and let my breathe when I can. You know, I.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So I do like, I wish that Jolly would make something that has like more of the micro grid pattern to it.

[Jabba]

That's what this short sleeve is that I wear.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Oh, it is a micro grid. Yeah.

[Jabba]

It's very thin. Yeah. But actually. Yeah, well, that's what this is. It's freeze well and it's just. But it's also the durability becomes a problem.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Thank you for bringing up durability. I want to definitely acknowledge a shortcoming of what I'm doing with the series, which will be updated as I think I'm gonna do this as an article in the. The website is. I'm mostly using these on like a singular long day hike and then making an assessment on it. So I can't rate durability because I'm testing out legitimately 20 sun hoodies, like at the output that I'm doing, it's just not.

[Jabba]

And frankly, when I'm wearing this particular shirt, it'll definitely last an entire through hike y. But like where it wears is like where the pack rubs the most and it'll lose a little bit of material here and there or catch like, you know, like sharp things in the desert or whatever. And that's not to say it's a knock on the this shirt at all. It's really not like I still wear it. Like I love it. But I'll take, I'll take a shirt that's less durable over a shirt that makes me feel more uncomfortable from a heat standpoint.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I agree. Especially because in the places where it Wears down is places that you're going to be covered by a pack anyways.

[Jabba]

Right.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'd rather have a few holes on my shirt than like 100% be too hot. So overall, I don't think this is a bad sun hoodie. If you're budget strapped, you're looking for a sun hoodie. Thus far, I think this is a reasonable option. But my least favorite of the three so far.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Whoever can ch boobs. How many. How many chance boobs?

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm going to comfortably go on a limb and give this one 5.1 chance boobs right now. That's a lot out of 10. Out of 10.

[Juliana Chauncey]

This is a higher skill than the Kate Upton. They were given like twos out generously.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Five and a half.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I reserve because I'm literally testing 20. There's 12 of them right there.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Most people just get one set of boobs. You're gifting them an extra three and a half.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I, I acknowledge I'm going to update the rankings as they go. I'll. I promise I'll have a master ranking.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Two is like average and I get.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, no, no, no. In my opinion, five boobs is average.

[Jabba]

I've used a comparable 1 to 10 scale.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm going 1 to 10 scale.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Not realistic.

[Jabba]

I've used a comparable REI shirt to, like the Jolly one that I'm referring to. It's not quite as thin, but it's. It absolutely thinner than that and it's. But it's just a collared with a half zip and it's still too much shirt for me. Yeah, I need less shirt.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's my biggest knock. And the hood's just too tight. I need some airflow in my head space when. When it's happening.

[Juliana Chauncey]

This triggered a genius idea in my brain and we all know that my ideas are very great. So who could ever send me Jolly's number between the two of you?

[Jabba]

First send it to you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Great. I need to tell him to execute on this idea because it's a really good one. But I do agree. I. When I'm in the. When I'm hiking and it's really hot, like, I'm uncomfortable AF just existing in the heat. The last thing I want to do is add a layer that adds claustrophobia.

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

To the, to the.

[Jabba]

It's bunched up.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If I'm crawling out of my own skin, just being in the skin. Hey, do you want to add a tight layer on top of it? No.

[Jabba]

Well, and my thing is that when I, when I'm sweating, it's not even that that like that I'm hot in it. The problem is when you're through hiking, specifically over time, that builds up with salt and dirt. And that salt and dirt gets to be pretty abrasive eventually. So like it becomes uncomfortable. You know, like salt and dirt braids, if that's even a word. But I. I'm looking to have less salt and dirt in my life. So when I get even get to the wearing this thin ass shirt. When I get to like a water source, I'll fill up my bottle and pour water on my shirt and wring all the salt and dirt out of it and then keep going because that's like the most comfortable thing. And then when water is filled with that instead of salt, like salt slash sweat. Like water, when it evaporates. Evaporates, it's cooling. Right. But when it's like dirty ass sweat, it's a different kind of just traps

[Zach Badger Davis]

the heat even more.

[Jabba]

Yeah, it's just grosser. Yeah, it just is.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I agree.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Okay. Triple crown. This is a triple crown. That was suggested by a listener shout out Patreon supporter Alex Kindle. The full comment is Triple crown of town food to hike out with. A pal of mine brought three very fancy bakery croissants in an overnight last year and my mind was blown. So foods that you're bringing from town that make you the most happy.

[Jabba]

Well, where are we starting? Okay, well, this is an easy one.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yep.

[Jabba]

My favorite thing to do when I'm in a town that has one of these restaurants and I use the term restaurant really loosely is Subway. I will eat a meatball and pack a like a cold cuts.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yep. Cold cuts out a sub sandwich at the top of my list.

[Jabba]

Yeah. And I'll get all this, all the on the side, like the mayonnaise and the mustards and whatever the hell sauces you want, you pack them on the side. You make that dry in the sandwich. You pack that out when you get to camp or whatever the hell you want to eat that. Then you put all, all that. Those sauces on it and then you eat that and enjoy that. That's my first. That is a tried and true method for me. And I'm not even saying that it's that delicious. The point is that, that it just, it just can happen.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yep. Love that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think the rules of the fridge that apply in the day to day of life. I got a burp. I can't get out.

[Jabba]

I need to be burped. Delicious.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Pat, come back.

[Jabba]

Pat.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Pat my back.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Get It.

[Jabba]

You want me to pat your back?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No. There it goes. I got it. I found it. Look at him nodding. He's like, that's my wife.

[Jabba]

That's my wife.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Drake released three albums today.

[Jabba]

This is not part of the subject matter.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think fridge rules don't apply on trail. Where, like, do you know when you go to your parents house and nothing expires and that seems to defy the laws of everything come to my house

[Jabba]

and nothing expires in my house.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Things do according to me in my parents house. Like they have in the fridge for ages and it's like, yeah, it's still

[Jabba]

good condiments for sure.

[Juliana Chauncey]

If it was my fridge, I'd be like, like, that's bad.

[Jabba]

Me is a different subject.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That kind of thing. I think on trail, in the first 24 hours to 36 hours of you being on trail, fridge rules don't apply.

[Jabba]

I would go beyond 36 even.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Exactly. But my. My point is, like, you read it, you read an article where it's like, guy left rice on table for two hours and died. You know, like, we're not playing.

[Jabba]

That's.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Those aren't the same rules that we're dealing with. So for me, you've got 36 hours before things even start to be quite questionable. And so my hot take is, I think, my triple crown of things. Like my first one. Anything available if you and your trail family did anything where there's leftovers, you got half a pizza, you got three beers, you got half a stack of wings, whatever's in the fridge where you're

[Jabba]

like, we're saying malt. You can't just be like all foods that he has. So which one of those things?

[Juliana Chauncey]

My first pick is leftovers.

[Jabba]

Yes, Town leftovers. So broad though. We need a literal thing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I'll give those for other.

[Jabba]

But leftovers, we need a literal thing.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, fine. I thought that was really valid.

[Jabba]

Your rules. This is your podcast. What is the thing for my first.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All foods.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Not my podcast. Otherwise I'd still be Is right now.

[Jabba]

Choose a food. Choose the name of the food. You already said the one that I would pick. And it's. That's the one. That's it. Say it. Say it one more time. Loud and proud.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Pizza.

[Jabba]

Yeah, it's a great one.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What. What are those?

[Jabba]

One gallon Ziploc bag can fit a half a pizza in it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What was the. This is one of my.

[Jabba]

Zach, your turn.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, no, this is one of my prouder jokes and I need everyone to hear it because I thought it was really good, you know. You know, piano packs or polante packs. Oh, there's piante pizza in Breckers. It's on the Colorado trail. It's like a vegetarian place. It's called piante pizza. But I had strapped a box of their pizza to my pack on the Colorado trail. And I took a selfie and I said piante packs and I tagged them. I thought it was funny. So that was my pizza joke.

[Jabba]

The problem with that. What is the box. Are you hiking out with a that box unless that's going to be your fire starter later?

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, I. I carried the box till the next town. Yeah.

[Jabba]

Damn. That's stupid.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It doesn't weigh anything.

[Jabba]

It's just a thing. It's a big thing. A big thing. That's a big thing. John, how many miles did you carry

[Juliana Chauncey]

that I've carried bigger.

[Jabba]

All right, Zach, you're.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Dude, the list is going to get thin real quick.

[Jabba]

I'm in.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Especially if we're just drafting.

[Jabba]

All isn't an option.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I. I'm going to go with one of the on trail meals that I enjoyed the most, which was on the long trail. That's a burrito.

[Jabba]

Burrito.

[Zach Badger Davis]

A burrito like a. It's cooked hot. God. What the mad taco was the place. I want to say. It was like a pulled pork. There's like a barbecue.

[Jabba]

It's already wrapped in foil or whatever the hell it is and it at least packs.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It was still cool enough outside that I didn't have to worry about like 90 degree heat turning burning it to disgusting. But like getting to the shelter and opening like a still kind of toasty burrito and biting into that compared to the gruel that you're normally eating. A burrito slaps. That being said, sub sandwich and pizza were my first two picks, so you guys nailed it there. So your turn again for my next one. Fast food burgers.

[Jabba]

Yep.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Just McDonald's. It doesn't matter. Double cheeseburger burger. A whopper Big Mac. Doesn't matter. It could be from a nice burger joint, but just like a burger wrapped in wax paper, you bust that out. That it does. It doesn't matter how terrible the burger is. The burger is good.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It actually. The worse the burger is, the better sometimes because like McDonald's burgers don't degrade because they're made of like radioactive materials.

[Jabba]

Disgusting.

[Zach Badger Davis]

They're meant to last, right?

[Jabba]

Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So if anything, that's for the duration of your life better than like a. A cow from the back.

[Jabba]

What's your number Two chance. Besides poop

[Juliana Chauncey]

a full bag of potato chips because it's impractical in a packing sense. And when you open it it they can then become stale and crushed and that doesn't make any sense. But for that first day out of town, when you have the bag that hasn't been popped yet and you can just strap her over the top, you're in for a treat.

[Jabba]

Yeah. That is the heaps method. Everybody knows Heaps.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Aisha Heaps, very iconic for her.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Did she just start the PCD for the third time or finish the cdt?

[Jabba]

Fourth time she finished the CDT last year is just starting. No, it was right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What's her name that just finished the CDT again?

[Jabba]

Don't know. But my second would be. And this comes with the caveat of that I hike with a bot which is a bottle pot. Yep. So to Chaunce's point, leftovers. The Vargo bottle pot has the ability to seal and with. When it comes to leftovers, if you can't finish whatever it is. One thing that I like to put in is pasta. If I'm at like an Italian restaurant. Yeah. So I will put an entire dish of pasta, the pre made from a restaurant into the bottle pot, keep it in the fridge overnight and then I'll hike out with that. And then by the time I'm ready to eat dinner, lunch, whatever it is, I got pre made incredible pasta already ready to go. You're carrying, you know that weight for a day at most.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You know, Love that. That's a good. That's a good protein.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Slimy.

[Jabba]

Not for, I mean for a day cares. Slimy. You just do the. You just talking about 36 hours and I'm saying like I would eat that like. Okay. And I already got my third one lined up, so I'm just gonna let it go your. Or do I go again? Your turn. Yeah. Okay. So in town. All right. Packing out fro. You already said burritos, but I'm talking frozen burritos. Yep. That was on the frozen burrito. I'll pack out like eight of these. All right. And the trick is the bean and cheese.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

Cuz those are the ones that'll hold without meat.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You don't have to be questionable with me.

[Jabba]

Yeah. And whatever cheese you're using is definitely going to hold. You know, like it just. It just will.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

And the tr. The and the other trick is to keep it packed properly away from the sides of your pack. The sun is not bending not too

[Zach Badger Davis]

close to your back either.

[Jabba]

Correct. Exactly. And if you're. And by the way, if you're carrying anything else that's cold like. Or that desires to be cold like cheese or. And cream cheese for that matter. I pack out cream cheese a lot.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Treat it like a cooler.

[Jabba]

Yeah. That is your ice pack. Yep. There you go.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Like that. That's great.

[Jabba]

Yep.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That's good stuff.

[Jabba]

Oh, thank you. Ch. By the way, for giving me whiskey.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh my God. I was going to do one with you.

[Jabba]

Yeah, I'd love it. Cheers.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Appreciate it. Neither of us are doing.

[Jabba]

I only have to. I only have to ride for an hour.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But you don't need me on your hand handlebars anymore.

[Jabba]

No, not anymore. Your husband's home came.

[Juliana Chauncey]

This is home now. Babe.

[Jabba]

Hey. This is. This is to me and you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

To me and you.

[Jabba]

I'm sorry. Bearing the hatchet.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm sorry. I couldn't name anything bad. It wasn't like out of hate.

[Jabba]

Whatever you say.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I don't. I don't mean mal. Intent.

[Jabba]

No.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And I. And I feel guilt.

[Jabba]

That's okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You know, you should. I want like. I want all good things.

[Jabba]

Yeah. All good. All circular. All things are circular. Hey. Here's to you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We know we both ultimately mean well.

[Jabba]

Here's to you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Here's to you.

[Jabba]

You've done an immaculate job all these

[Juliana Chauncey]

years and you have always showed up for us when asked without complaint and been here whether or not it's been fun or not. And you have never once been a stick in the mud about it. So here's to you too.

[Zach Badger Davis]

That was the nicest thing she said the entire time.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I can get there. It's just like. I'm sorry.

[Jabba]

Hey, hey.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Look at me.

[Jabba]

Look at me.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

To you. To you. To you.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Well done. Well done, guys. We did it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Not a good liar.

[Jabba]

This is delicious.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Shout out to.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's why we drank night. Everything that you drank.

[Jabba]

Small batch is always banging.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Everything you don't see in this bottle is what we drank on that episode.

[Jabba]

That's pure gas right there.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Can you imagine me contributing to.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I was trying to throw that at you there. A left handed toss of the trash.

[Jabba]

No, no. I heard. Yeah. I'll get drunk on this.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You just leave that there. I'll take care of it in a minute. My bad.

[Jabba]

Okay, next.

[Zach Badger Davis]

So Chance is up next.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, is this my final?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yep.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So no. No wor. Okay, hold on. I got to really think about this then. There's a couple ways I could go with it. I don't feel great about this. Answer. Answer. But I feel like any other answer I would give would depend on this answer. So it being the base of the other answers means that I would need to put it first. But it's not the most exciting. That being said, English muffins.

[Jabba]

Oh, I like it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I think packing out a loaf of bread is more difficult because the bread can squish and it loses its integrity. Whereas English muffins are meant to be flat and they're portrayed in, in a shape of a sleeve that has some sort of cardboard support to it that bread doesn't have. That helps. And it's already layered in a way that is convenient and conducive to being packed. And with it you have so many options. For example, when I was on the John Muir trail, I was like, how many different combos can I make on these English muffins? And I took photos of them every day and I put them in an album called Trail Food so that when I went back on trail the following time, I think the thing that people really, especially if you're a new hiker, I think more seasoned hikers come to terms with this better. But as a new hiker, you're so in involved in the idea of them out there that you forget that like even if you're on the CDT where you're like, you're out there for a bit, like you're still coming from town for a certain day. So like for those days you're not out there yet, right? So like you can, like you can have a fresh meal on the night you come out of town. Because even if you pack a bag of lettuce, right, like you are on your way out of town.

[Jabba]

That's a good one.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So like the ones where it's like the pre made salad bags, like there's nothing saying you can't have that the night leaving town. Sure, maybe you can't have it four days in, but one out of five nights, that's a vegetable.

[Jabba]

And I will just add to your English muffins bagels.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Well, so same thing. I'm looking, I'm going to. Because I know I have the album and I know it's easily accessible. This isn't going to be a long wait. It's going to be.

[Jabba]

But like she just mentioned salad. Like I don't know if you were gonna say it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Here we go.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I still have a turn. You guys gotta get greedy over here.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So on the English you were gonna say? No, I wanted to look up the things I've done with it on the English muffins. Because I took photos of all of them. I did. Avocado cheese.

[Jabba]

Well, avocado's one too, so.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But you can't buy. I wouldn't bring avocado without the English muffin. What am I gonna do, eat it plain?

[Jabba]

Honestly? Yes.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I wouldn't.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I also wouldn't pack out an avocado just because it's so much dead weight, but.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, hear me out. These are just, these are just.

[Jabba]

These are just the pit you gotta take with you, but like I feel like parts the, the skin. Maybe you can. Chuck.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm going to just rapid fire through the things on this album. It was avocado cheese, tomato on English muffin. No, this is good for people to hear.

[Jabba]

Hey, I was talking.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I was going to say someone. Someone in town.

[Jabba]

You're good, you're good.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No one wants to hear this clip?

[Jabba]

No.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, the, the other thing. The other thing is like, like those little small bottles that like. Pete, like, you know, like when you get like sewing needles in a kit. You can put salt and pepper in that. You could put garlic powder in that.

[Jabba]

Absolutely.

[Juliana Chauncey]

So I had a teeny tiny bottle that I put salt, pepper and garlic powder in that was pre mixed. I was like, I love those three and everything.

[Jabba]

So you know who makes the banginest seasonings of all, all time? When you go for a $5 Little Caesar's pizza, get their zap. Have you ever heard of their zap? They will give you a billion of these seasonings and you can put them on with things.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm going to keep rapid fire. This English muffin.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I. No, no, no. I haven't gone yet.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I'm not, I'm not saying no, no, I'm talking about the English muffin. I'm saying the things on the jam. I'm still trying to get to the point. I'm saying the things on the people

[Jabba]

are going to kill themselves.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What I'm saying. No, they're not. Because they're either. If they were going to kill themselves. I know. He, he, he actually sent me a text that said I came kill yourself. I came too early again, period. And he said, he said that 10 minutes ago.

[Jabba]

By the way. I thought I was out of here an hour ago, dude.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, English muffin, cheese, pudo, pistachio, English muffin, cheese, avocado, tomato.

[Jabba]

Again, you're saying things you can put on English muffin. There are things that you could pack out as part of. Of this answer.

[Juliana Chauncey]

English muffin, cheese, pudo.

[Jabba]

You're out of your element, bro.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You can't do any of them without the English muffin?

[Jabba]

Yes. You could do all of them without the English muffin. All of them. Every single one of them.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'm going to go with my.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Look at all those options.

[Jabba]

No, I can see that.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Look at all those options.

[Jabba]

You're making pizza.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It's good stuff. All right. As my last pick, I'm going fruit. You get one of those mixed fruits, you can throw it to a ziploc bag. It's probably only going to be good for a day day. But to get some actual, like, nutrition before it turns disgusting, fruit definitely slaps. It's one of those things that you get during trail magic where you don't even know that you're craving it until you're eating it and you're like, holy, this makes so much sense.

[Jabba]

You know what I just thought of? So we're done, right?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, we're done.

[Jabba]

So here's what I just thought of. You know the guy who always eats some weird on a plane?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Oh, the heat. Like, onions and eggs and. Yeah.

[Jabba]

How do we incorporate. Incorporate his motif into trail life. Just eating full eggs, eating a, like, raw. Like. Oh, I'm just at a break where, like, everyone's hanging out. You know, you just decide you're gonna break out or not. I need to just eat it in front of everybody.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

You know what? I'm doing that. I'm gonna start packing out weird from trail, and when I get to a place where people are taking a break, I'm gonna be like, oh, I'm just gonna eat raw eggs in front of people.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Have you ever taken a bite of a raw onion? Just like a big old bite?

[Jabba]

Yes, absolutely.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I feel.

[Jabba]

It feels like punching myself in the dick.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah. When I pledge my sorority, you know, because you went.

[Jabba]

Go on.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You went to. You went to Pennsylvania, you know, like the gym.

[Jabba]

I went to Pennsylvania.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You're not upstate state, but okay. Compared to southern schools. Southern schools, pretty pledge.

[Jabba]

Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Northern schools, haze. That was always the mom.

[Jabba]

Oh, by the way, I went to a hazing Marine Corps, and then I'm hazing university. Of course. I get it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But we had one of the parts of it was. And they're trying to build camaraderie through pain with all this. I don't know. But you have to on one of the nights, take a bite. You sit in front of everyone that except for your pledge sisters. And you have to take a bite. They put two in front of you of either an apple or an onion. Onion. And you take a bite and chew it and swallow it. And the mo is whatever you pick, all your sisters will have to take a bite of the other. And so it's like if I pick the apple and I take a bite, I'm signing everyone up for a bite of the onion. So you're supposed to pick the onion. So everyone has to sit there and just like, take a giant bite of an onion and just, like, act like it doesn't hurt.

[Jabba]

That's sexual and violent.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Only time I've ever done it was terrible.

[Zach Badger Davis]

It sounds like red butter, blue button.

[Jabba]

Drink, baby, drink. You still don't understand that one.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't think you understand. All right.

[Jabba]

Quite the whiskey face.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Mailbag.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No honorable mentions. What about soda?

[Zach Badger Davis]

No.

[Jabba]

Next. Yeah, next.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'll do it. Howdy there, BPR folks.

[Jabba]

No, no. Go, Zach. Go, go, go.

[Juliana Chauncey]

This is my. I only have. I've got my borrowed time.

[Jabba]

Your husband looking at you like there's death on the line.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, you're on an island right now.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I dare him.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I've always been around the PC.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You even started with hi shots.

[Jabba]

Read it or die.

[Juliana Chauncey]

He said howdy. Howdy there, BPR folks. I've always been around the pct. Growing up in Oregon and living in Ashland for six years. Trail angel and runner working in an outdoor store, friend cycing at etc. But never had a burning desire to hike it until a year. Until year two of living abroad in New Zealand and Australia. When I started living listening to your podcast when intensely homesick. Right now I am almost two months into a day into a dream bike packing tour across Europe starting in Marrakesh, Morocco.

[Jabba]

I love this is it Morocco in Africa. How are you?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah.

[Jabba]

By the way, you're bike packing across Europe starting in Marrakesh.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You have a whole ocean to cross and hopefully ending in Georgia this autumn. Oh, I love that. Georgia is a country and not only a state and as you're but Bajan

[Jabba]

right next to it.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, I thought you're saying and you're. I was like, what's my Bajan? And you have.

[Jabba]

Tbilisi is the capital of Georgia. That's true.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Compliment for Jabba.

[Jabba]

I like my geography.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That was a cool. And you ruined it for me.

[Jabba]

Yeah, sure.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I spent all day dreaming about the pct, watching documentaries on zeros, planning, resupply, Watching documentaries on. On zeros. Okay, we'll revisit that. Planning, resupplies and purchasing kit to be sent to my dad's when I need retail therapy. I love how they say kit. It's so cute.

[Jabba]

The Europeans love kit.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I know. But it's so much better.

[Jabba]

Kit. You have a football kit.

[Juliana Chauncey]

What's in your kit? And it's your back. That's so cool. Between listening to your podcast, I wish dearly for my blisters on my feet and not my ass and a hiker family instead of looking at my husband's butt all day and if I'm lucky, smelling his fart in the wind.

[Jabba]

That's hot.

[Juliana Chauncey]

The plan is to get home after three years abroad, work the winter and hike. Soo much appreciation for sharing so many interesting stories and see you at PCT days 2027 maybe Molly. P.S. a favorite game of mine is soup, salad or sandwich. I believe that all food dishes can be categorized into one of those three groups. Try it out. I love that I recently argued with someone because I wanted them to agree that a hot dog was a topic taco and they would not agree with me.

[Jabba]

I agree that a hot dog and a taco are very similar.

[Juliana Chauncey]

They're in the same. They're in the same family now.

[Jabba]

They're also sandwich family too. So hot dogs. Anyway. With soup, salad, sandwich.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yes. They fall into sandwich.

[Jabba]

I would say 90 of things fall into those categories. Except for eating a steak.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, I. Yeah, that does not fall into there.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Fettuccine Alfredo. You calling that a salad?

[Jabba]

Yeah, kinda. Okay, kinda.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I said I don't know where pasta would fit.

[Jabba]

Salad. Pasta salad. Get it?

[Juliana Chauncey]

The orientation of the bowl would suggest salad.

[Jabba]

But what is cereal, salad, milk or.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It depends. It depends on your ratio.

[Jabba]

First of all, Charlie Day would say

[Juliana Chauncey]

yes, if it's your milkman friend.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Cereal, salad, soup.

[Jabba]

Milk.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Cereal. Milkman's a soup for milkman.

[Jabba]

Oh, you just got me hard.

[Juliana Chauncey]

But cereal for us would be salad. Soup for us it's salad because we wouldn't over milk it.

[Jabba]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Would you over milk your cereal?

[Jabba]

How over milk?

[Zach Badger Davis]

What about. What about oatmeal?

[Jabba]

Soup, Soup.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Oatmeal Soup, Soup, Soup, soup.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oatmeal soup. Wait, wait, wait.

[Zach Badger Davis]

What about just fried chicken?

[Jabba]

No, that's into steak. That's steak meat.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It's like an insect. What are they.

[Jabba]

But what I was going to say was what is like a. Like a. Like a deep fried. Like tequila. Tequila or. No, sorry.

[Juliana Chauncey]

A deep fried tequila.

[Jabba]

No, wait, what's. What are they called? Taquitos.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Oh, I love a tequ.

[Jabba]

Sandwich, I guess. Deep fried sandwich. Yeah. Pour me up, girl.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I would consider that to be. I would consider that to be a fully closed. That would be a fully closed hot dog. A taquita.

[Jabba]

So soup, salad, sandwich, everything falls in except for eating a hunk of meat.

[Juliana Chauncey]

A taquito is a sandwich.

[Jabba]

For me, everything besides eating a hunk of meat is a soup, salad or sandwich. Yeah, yeah, yeah. More.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jabba]

Get it in there, get it in there. Yeah.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Deep throat it.

[Jabba]

Yeah, got it. Don't even worry, bro. Sorry, Polly, can you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I wish we had a camera facing my husband. Plug for the YouTube.

[Jabba]

I've sat there for an entire episode more than one time. It's awkward.

[Juliana Chauncey]

It means nothing. He's just a friend. Hey, do you hear what he just said? He goes, it's the Trek Cuck chair.

[Jabba]

Yeah, it is the Trek Cuck chair. Hey, here's the Trek Cuck chair.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Here's the cucking. My husband.

[Jabba]

Cheers. Going to sort this.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, five star review while you guys are drinking. DD Man's Party lets me go hiking in my head while stuck in LA traffic or trapped in my man box at work. I listen to your adventures and it helps me escape for a while. Interesting guests, a great balance of humor and info. Thanks for keeping me from totally losing my mind. That's from DD Man's Party. Thank you so much for the review. You can leave us a review at Apple Podcast. And if you want your review right on this podcast podcast, leave us any

[Juliana Chauncey]

number of stars, just not 1, 2, 3 or 4. And I will put a little note here because I'm milking time and I don't want to go home. And I've said it before, all of you, eat for the five.

[Jabba]

Directed at you. All of us.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Because he. Because he literally looked at me like, come on. I just have a quick point.

[Jabba]

All right, cool.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I used to say at the start of the podcast that I read all the five star reviews and I loved when people left new ones because it made me feel really good. And then there got to a point where I stopped reading them because some people were like, eh, she's annoying. And I was like, okay, great. What can I do about it? I'm stuck with me. But you are stuck. And so I don't read them unless Rachel puts them because she filters them for us. But if we go back to processing real quick, when I go to North Carolina, I have thought about this. I do think I'm going to go back and start reading them again and reading the new ones just to see if anyone misses me. And so if I could just put.

[Jabba]

That's nostalgia, baby.

[Juliana Chauncey]

No, it's depressing.

[Jabba]

No, the opposite.

[Juliana Chauncey]

To put my worth on like going and reading reviews to see if anyone even missed me. Like, no, how about you get a hobby, you know, to me. But all I'm saying is if you haven't left a review and you're looking for a reason to and you don't know what to say, I, I, I think that I'm entering a phase where I'm going to start reading them again. And if you could say something nice on them, it would make me feel good. And I put a lot of value

[Jabba]

when I go home. You're putting a five star review on.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I put a lot of value on your opinions and it affects my mental health. And so if you could just say something nice if you haven't already and you're thinking, why should I? What's the point? I'm gonna probably go back and like pity scroll. And so now is the great time to do it.

[Jabba]

You know, she's really serious while she's ocd, making sure all the cans of elementees stay salty.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I just want to leave everything perfect

[Zach Badger Davis]

alignment and screenshot your review instead of two podcasts of the Trek co. And we'll send you a sticker. We will send you a sticker also

[Juliana Chauncey]

with what's highlighted on this next part. I love you, Jason.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Shout out to

[Juliana Chauncey]

sponsor mention.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yep. Shout out to element. I think there's gonna be some element that should be consumed tonight. For some people here in this room.

[Jabba]

Drive home on a bicycle by myself.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You didn't think I knew what ubering would mean.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I've gone through.

[Jabba]

How many of these do I need to drink to be sober?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Have you tried the pigment?

[Zach Badger Davis]

A time machine.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Taste this. If you haven't, don't you dare.

[Jabba]

I will drink these and only these. Those look like there's been tampered with. Yeah, that's a seal. Unsealed, sealed, unsealed.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Would I lie to you?

[Zach Badger Davis]

Clean element has two flavors and they're two new flavors, I should say. And they're both fucking fire. The pink, seriously, pink lemonade is very good. The most recent drop is their iced tea lemonade, which is lemonade that tastes like iced tea that has a little bit of caffeine in it. I think it's got 50 milligrams of caffeine. So if you want a little pick me up while also getting hydrated, definitely check it out. I've been housing the iced tea lemonade. It fucking is very good. That's my go to. In the morning when I go to the gym, I throw it into a liter and a half of water. And I'll drink it by the time that I leave the gym.

[Jabba]

I did actually come here only for the one pretense of like, I'm here for the element.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Great. I brought a whole box.

[Jabba]

Really? I'm serious. I am only, only here. Like, I don't give a about you guys.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Take the box I brought.

[Jabba]

Like, if I don't come out of here with Element, I'm like, it's a worthless buddy.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I'll hook you up.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Take the box.

[Jabba]

I brought them into my butt.

[Zach Badger Davis]

As long as I'll be happy to hook them.

[Jabba]

Put them directly into my butt. Okay.

[Juliana Chauncey]

One thing about them that I just not everyone is always use our URL

[Zach Badger Davis]

drinkelementi.com for a free sample pack with your orders.

[Juliana Chauncey]

You're not always on trail. You're not always, like, the thing about long distance hiking, you're not always on trail. You're not always doing 20 miles a day. You're not always in that peak fitness. And so it's like, maybe I don't always need to take it. No. Because here's my very small scientific study I've done the number of times me and Garrett have gone out drinking together, where before bed. Before bed, I will take a responsible water bottle and put Element in it and go to sleep and wake up and I'm like, I feel fine. And then he wakes up and he's like, I'm. I would rather die right now. I would just like to thank Element for providing me those mornings where I didn't want to die because I truly, from the bottom of my heart, not even because they're paying us, do believe that the reason why I did not feel the way he has felt in these moments is because I make an adamant point to drink a full bottle of it before bed. Because I think it does something and I wake up and I. I truly think it does.

[Jabba]

And if that wasn't enough, honestly, and that was a great testimonial and I, you know what? And I. And you know what it's like that you were speaking the words that I actually believe in my own heart.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Thank you.

[Jabba]

When I conference Zach before a fucking

[Zach Badger Davis]

adventure that I go on every time you are leaving for a night, I know that you're showing.

[Jabba]

I need what you got and what you've got got the goods.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Is he not giving you enough?

[Jabba]

No, he's giving me everything.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Cuz I can give you more if he's not giving you enough.

[Jabba]

Actually, you know what would you like, isn't maybe he's not giving me Enough. Maybe you need to get. No, truly, honestly, like, this is unadulterated.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Will I see you before the live podcast or.

[Jabba]

Probably not. We don't hang out. We're not actual friends.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We're not planning on fixing.

[Jabba]

Honestly, like, like, I, I come here and like, sex. Like, hey, I got some extra, extra. And I take the element and I, I use it on the trail and without it I'm nothing. And with it, I'm everything. And, and I'm in the zone of like training hard right now and I need it. I need it, Zach. I'm here to. I need it.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Take as much.

[Jabba]

I need the element. I need Gremlin.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I need it. Dump the whole basket into.

[Jabba]

Into my butt.

[Juliana Chauncey]

And, and it's not, it's not because we can't get rid of it. It's because they are so here. I need people.

[Jabba]

They're the best. It's the best.

[Juliana Chauncey]

We're not being like, oh, dump the whole basket in your thing. Cuz we're like, get rid of it.

[Jabba]

Listen, I've tried them all.

[Juliana Chauncey]

They are so generous.

[Jabba]

I've tried them all, but I need that to be. They're so generous.

[Juliana Chauncey]

They send to me all the time.

[Jabba]

We're going to turn off in a minute.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Element is the best. Use our URL drink. Elementary.com children, a super big thank you to our Bob People's award winners on Patreon. That is Alex and Misty with navigators Grand Crass, Alex kindle, Andrew Austin McDaniel, Bill Jensen, Brad and Blair from 13 Adventures. Brent Mullins aka Kruzy, Brian all Up Fables. Carl Lobster Hood, Christopher Marshburn, Clint Sitler, Coach Mar Outdoors. Eric Casper, the Friendly Ghost, Eric Hoffman, Ethan Harwell.

[Jabba]

Done.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Jillian Daniels, Greg Knight. Greg Martin Griffin. Hey, would you bring me a beer? Haley Buckingham Jackson Storm Trooper Jared not from Subway. Jason Kaiser. Jason Zach is a little donkey girl Snailer.

[Juliana Chauncey]

That's why I said at the start, Jason.

[Jabba]

That sounds hot.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Love you.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Luke nz, Maddie Narzo, Patrick C. And Cielo. Randy Sutherland, Rebecca Braveheart. Rural Juror story products. The St. Louis shaman, Timothy Han Solo and Tracy Trigger. Thank you so much to our guy Paulie at Old Man Murph's Coffee roasters. Go to ommcr.com get yourself some delicious beans. You can follow us on social at Backpacker Radio, on Instagram and Tick Tock. We're on threads, Facebook, all the places

[Juliana Chauncey]

while I'm shamelessly milking everyone's time. What's Paul's in? Can we give him like an what's his Instagram what's name his or something.

[Zach Badger Davis]

I don't actually.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Shut the up. Okay, fine. Follow pod. Follow He. Someone commented and they were like the. The sunny clip he put at the end of the episode where they announced me leaving was. They made it cry and I listened and it was really good.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Yeah, yeah. Paul is the best. I don't know his Instagram offhand though.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Okay, well then go to ommcr.com if you buy coffee from anywhere. Just. How about for once you buy it from here if you haven't yet, just for fun. You're going to drink it anyway. Went out from here for fun because he puts all these fun sunny clips at the end and he deserves to make money off of it by paying him.

[Zach Badger Davis]

Subscribe and follow us on Apple Podcast, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcast. Follow us on YouTube. What's up, YouTube?

[Juliana Chauncey]

Hi Internet.

[Zach Badger Davis]

All right, we did it. Thank you so much for listening and happy hiking.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Bye.

[Jabba]

Dennis, can I give you some advice? Absolutely not. Look, hey, do what you want to

[Zach Badger Davis]

do in life, you know, and know

[Jabba]

that there's nothing wrong with that.

[Zach Badger Davis]

No, what I want is do well.

[Jabba]

That's what I want to do. Oh, well, I applaud you for that. Absolutely. You know, and now know that of course I'll come back at you with. With everything that I have. What do you get him, Charlie? Go get him.

[Juliana Chauncey]

I've been out walking slow Many miles I've yet to go Never been one

[Zach Badger Davis]

that's had to choose but every time

[Juliana Chauncey]

I do I find I lose I guess I'm a loser stomping ground A

[Jabba]

welcome man for the loving crowd I wish it's you.

[Juliana Chauncey]

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[Jabba]

Fantastic.

[Juliana Chauncey]

Hire 36% more help.

[Zach Badger Davis]

You're hired and you're hired.

[Juliana Chauncey]

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