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- [00:18]
A
Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Bound on Paper podcast. I'm Olivia Mentor.
- [00:22]
B
And I'm Becca Freeman.
- [00:23]
A
And today we have a three Things episode.
- [00:26]
B
Well, we don't each have three things because we do have one overlapping thing.
- [00:30]
A
It seems you did call dibs on this thing, but I figured we could share it because I had it written down. So I had a universe dibs.
- [00:38]
B
It has a lot of shared podcast DNA. I have not gotten more DMs about something in a long time, so stay tuned.
- [00:47]
A
What does it say about us that this is what we have?
- [00:51]
B
It's a good question, this. Yeah. Well, before we get into these things, tell me your high.
- [00:59]
A
My high is that I sort of spontaneously ended up going to the Hilary Duff concert at Madison Square Garden last night. Night two.
- [01:07]
B
Oh my God.
- [01:07]
A
So I did not see Jealous. I. I did not see the surprise Good Charlotte performance, much to my disappointment. But yeah, my. My friend Martha, who I've known forever, we worked together at Bustle and we've stayed good friends over the years, was like, I'm thinking about going to this. Do you want to come? I was like, you know what? Yes, I will take the train in. I will take the 11:30 train back. And it was just so fun to be amongst my fellow millennials. Screaming. So yesterday, come clean. It was really healing.
- [01:37]
B
I actually like a lot of the new album too. I really tried to get tickets to this concert and when I signed on for the pre sale, I had a terrible number in the queue and everything was gone. By the time I got to the
- [01:50]
A
front it was sold out. It was really packed. Everyone was so happy to be there. And also La Rue was her second opener. Who has that song Bulletproof?
- [02:01]
B
Oh yeah.
- [02:02]
A
Which was like a highlight of every going out playlist I had in college. That was also very fun to sing in a group of people and just be happy. And yeah, it was a good time. It was very nostalgic. Everyone felt really just happy and free and friendly and it was like a no pressure environment because no one is like super young and looking at you like you're the weirdo. You're like amongst your fellow old weirdos.
- [02:28]
B
I mean, I. I have loved following her going out top wardrobe for this tour.
- [02:34]
A
It was really good. She had the sparkly one that was absolutely incredible. Yeah, it was great. She seemed like she was having the time of her life too, which is always really fun to watch.
- [02:43]
B
I love that for her. I hope this isn't a one off. I hope she keeps releasing music. I would love to see That I think she will.
- [02:49]
A
I think she will. She seems really passionate about it, for sure. Well, what's your high?
- [02:54]
B
So I have two diametrically opposed highs. So my first high is that last weekend I was on a girls and one gay guy trip to the breakers in Palm beach, which is one of my favorite places. And I wasn't going to go, but I decided to go at the last minute. And I'm so glad I did. Was just, I mean, it seems a little silly to take a beach vacation when it's already hot here. Why do I need to go to somewhere hotter? But it was so nice to sit by a pool. Even though I just seen these same friends the weekend before for the lobster roll off, I'm always happy to spend more time with them. Oh, it was so fun.
- [03:31]
A
That sounds lovely. Do you have good weather?
- [03:34]
B
Yes, it was. I mean, there were. It's Florida, so there's afternoon thunderstorms. But, you know, except for the two hours that it's absolutely pouring, it was gorgeous.
- [03:42]
A
So I'm so glad.
- [03:44]
B
Yeah, it was really nice. And then the other side of my high is that I had been gone for 10 days altogether because I didn't come home in between. I just stayed in Maine and did some work there, went to Boston, worked there. It just didn't feel like it made sense. Like an Uber to the airport is, I don't know, sometimes $100. It didn't feel like it made sense to come home and just turn around again in 48 hours to leave, so. So I stayed with my friend Molly in between. And I was so excited to come home. I was so excited. I'm so excited for routine. I'm so excited to work. I'm so excited to cook. I am just so excited to be a little hermit and sleep in my bed and be in my place and have alone time. It really made me realize, I mean, I live alone, I work alone, I'm an only child, so I'm pretty comfortable with alone time. I, for 10 days was like, never alone.
- [04:42]
A
That's hard.
- [04:43]
B
It wasn't hard. It was fun. But by the end I was like, yeah, I'm ready to hermit.
- [04:50]
A
Well, it's a good time to hermit. I, as someone who was in the city yesterday, dear God, the temperatures. I was mel teen and I was outside for a very minimal amount of time, melting into the pavement.
- [05:03]
B
So are you saying that I should not walk to my lash appointment after this, which was my plan?
- [05:07]
A
No, I mean, it's hot here, which means it's even hotter where you are, and I don't think so.
- [05:13]
B
Okay, we'll see.
- [05:14]
A
You should get an Uber.
- [05:15]
B
We'll see.
- [05:16]
A
Well, what's your low?
- [05:17]
B
Oh, my gosh, Olivia. I am lucky enough that I have only had one migraine in my life up until now. And I had a second one, and oh, my God, it threw me for such a loop. On Tuesday night, I was sitting on my couch and I was on the computer, and it started off just feeling like I'd been looking at a screen too long. So I stopped that and I was reading a book instead, and that didn't help. Then I got in bed and it just kept getting worse and worse. I got taken out by this migraine. I woke up the next morning feeling a little bit better. I think it was hormonal because I did start my period the next day. Oh, my God. My, like, profound condolences and respect for anyone who gets regular migraines because I was not okay for, you know, this 12 to 16 hours.
- [06:11]
A
I'm sorry that happened. They can be so, so debilitating. I haven't had one in many, many, many years, but the times I did, like, it really puts things in perspective. You don't get it till you get it.
- [06:22]
B
Totally.
- [06:23]
A
So hard.
- [06:24]
B
Well, I'm hoping that now I can go another 20 years before my next one, but, man, yeah, at least here's hoping.
- [06:31]
A
Fingers crossed for you, but, yeah, I'm sorry that happened.
- [06:34]
B
Thank you. What is your low?
- [06:37]
A
You know, I think any week where you get to sing Hilary duff Songs from 2003 In a Room of however many thousands of people is great. But I will say that this week has been a week where every day has felt like Friday.
- [06:50]
B
Oh, in a good way or a bad way?
- [06:51]
A
Kind of a bad way, where you're like, oh, it's the weekend. You're like, no, actually, it's only Monday. I see I have four more days. So it is Friday now and I feel like, very. Just tired. And I got home at like 2 or 2:30, so I'm just feeling a little. A little tired, but not a problem. It'll be fine.
- [07:11]
B
Well, let's take an ad break and let's get into some things to pep you up. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. We've talked a lot about BetterHelp over the years, but instead of taking our word for it, maybe you want to check out actual reviews from real users. Their updated data daily with hundreds of people talking about how helpful this service has been for them, and you can read them for yourself. At betterhelp.com reviews BetterHelp has an average
- [07:40]
A
live therapy session rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on 1.7 million client session reviews. The feedback from people who use the service really does speak for itself, but the best thing is that BetterHelp makes it so easy to get started with therapy. You can just answer a few questions, get matched with the therapist based on your needs, and you can switch therapists at any time if it's not right fit.
- [08:02]
B
More than 6 million people use better help globally. See the reviews, see what stands out, and see if better help is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com batonpaper that's betterhelp h lp.com badonpaper. Where do we start, Olivia? Do we start with the shared thing, perhaps?
- [08:26]
A
I think we do. I think we start there.
- [08:28]
B
For anyone who sent it to us, you already know. And if you don't know, you're in for a real ride. Our shared thing is the Wicker Movie trailer, which dropped last week. So how would you describe the trailer, Olivia?
- [08:46]
A
At first you feel like it's a trailer for just a period drama. There's Olivia Colman. She's in this sort of like medieval ish village, sort of peasant dressed. And then eventually you realize that the plot is that she has wished or requested a husband who is then made entirely of Wicker.
- [09:07]
B
Correct.
- [09:07]
A
And this is where we get into the sort of weird erotica part of things, which is what we're known for here on this podcast, I guess. And anyway, it turns out to be quite the Wicker man, and he's played by Alexander Skarsgard, which is why I think of a better casting. I think it's perfect.
- [09:26]
B
Do you?
- [09:28]
A
I do. He's first of all a hunk of a man in any material, but also he's so weird, I guess, and it fits so perfectly, in my opinion. What was your first reaction to this? Did you watch it, knowing anything about it? What are you feeling right now?
- [09:45]
B
Well, so first people were sending it to me. I was on vacation and I was kind of like, I'm off duty. I'm not watching these videos that people are sending me. But it kind of penetrated, pun not intended, that there was this movie called Wicker. People were like, you need to talk about this. You need to know about this. And then I was sitting at the airport on Sunday and my flight was delayed and I was scrolling through threads and there were all these jokes. Like everyone was making jokes about wicker. And I was like, oh, let me watch the trailer. And I'm not sure what I thought it was going to be like. I knew it was a sentient object, a sentient non human romance, but I think the star studdedness of the cast and these very serious actors. I think in the trailer it's Academy Award winning actress Olivia Colman, like Golden Globe winning Alexander Skarsgard. And I was like, this seems like an SNL sketch, but I can tell
- [10:43]
A
it's going to be good. Like I know it's gonna be that caliber of everything. I can just tell it's gonna be, you know. Did you ever watch the Shape of Water?
- [10:52]
B
No.
- [10:53]
A
I believe that was Oscar winning.
- [10:54]
B
It was.
- [10:55]
A
Similarly, she falls in love with a fish. Man. Man. Fish.
- [11:00]
B
Huh?
- [11:00]
A
Man and fish.
- [11:02]
B
I have so many questions. Okay, what direction do you wanna go with your part of this thing?
- [11:08]
A
I mean, are you as excited about this as I am?
- [11:11]
B
Absolutely. I'm. I don't know if excited is the right word, but goddamn am I intrigued. And I'm gonna do everything I can to see it in theaters on opening weekend.
- [11:20]
A
Oh, I will be there. There's nothing stopping me. I think it just feels very off the wall, but also has the potential to be, I don't know, like a shark heart kind of weird, quirky love story that really speaks to me. It's also based on a short story, which I love. It is.
- [11:40]
B
So what I found most confounding was like, it almost feels like it's an inside joke where these very talented people were like, yeah, this sounds fun to like fuck off to. I don't know. It looks like it's in a small European village for a few months and film this with other cool people. And then I found this People magazine article about it and they're talking about it so seriously. And I was. I don't know what to think. So one of the quotes from this article was when Colman read the script, she was blown away. And this is a direct quote from her. I think it's in my top three favorite scripts I've ever read.
- [12:19]
A
That's, that's high praise. But that's what every, like, quick review of this is like. It's like phenomenal. Like life changing. Like all these incredible blurbs about this movie. And I think it's gonna be something.
- [12:32]
B
Well, I guess it was screened at Sundance earlier this year, so people have seen it and they've said that it's very raunchy.
- [12:38]
A
Well, yes, I got that from the trailer. It's very erotic, I guess.
- [12:43]
B
I mean, the first scene of the US trailer Have you watched both the US and the UK trailer?
- [12:48]
A
No, but I don't know which one I've watched.
- [12:50]
B
Okay, so in the US Trailer, it might be both, but in the US trailer, the first scene is kind of Olivia Colman in the throes of ecstasy. She's like screaming with pleasure in a bed and you kind of only see shadows. And then in the UK trailer, there's this moment where you see this kind of very zoomed in, artful shot of what I think we are meant to assume is the Wicker Basket man's penis being made.
- [13:20]
A
Oh, yeah, Okay. I did. Yeah. Okay. I don't know if I. Maybe I saw that one. I watched it on my phone, so I wasn't.
- [13:26]
B
Okay, I've watched it a few times, to be honest with you.
- [13:30]
A
You were preparing for the episode. I was.
- [13:32]
B
I was doing research. I need to read you another couple of quotes from Alexander Skarsgrd from the same article. That again, like, everyone's taking this very seriously. Like, this seems like a joke to me, but nobody else seems to be treating it as a joke.
- [13:46]
A
Oh, I don't. I don't think it's a joke. I think it's going to be actually very good.
- [13:50]
B
How? I mean, I guess, but like, how can a movie about Alexander Skarsgrd and wicker prosthetics playing an anthropomorphized basket not be kind of a joke?
- [14:04]
A
Script writing, I guess that's the power of writing. I just think there's going to be something here that it's unexpected. Like, I think it gets you in the trailer with like, the wackiness of it, the weirdness, the. How can this possibly work? But I think when you watch it, it's going to be like, oh, this is incredible. And weird, but incredible.
- [14:23]
B
Okay, so wait, can I read you this quote from Alexander Skarsgard? So he said the same People magazine article. He said, I was quite intimidated when I read the script because tend to be drawn to more conflicted characters and more internal turmoil and darkness. Skarsgrd said in a January 2026 interview at the film's Sundance Film Festival premiere in Utah. And to play this good hearted, good natured, sweet, morally righteous character was scary to me. And then he also goes on to say in another quote, he said the script was incredible. He added, I thought it was. It is a fable, but it's also an allegory, a story about our society, but without being heavy handed or didactic or preachy. And I'm just very confused by the Amount of things that this movie is apparently doing while being a movie about a sentient basket. Maybe this is a lack of imagination on my part as a lover of
- [15:18]
A
the shape of water. I think it's gonna be really good, and I love nothing more than a very weird premise that very succinctly speaks to something universal. And I think that's probably what they're going for. I do have to say that his skin really reminded me of Jonathan Bailey's scarecrow in Wicked, which I was like, it's a little close, but I guess, you know, burlap wicker, right? One and the same.
- [15:45]
B
It feels like you are getting art house artur vibes from this. And I'm like, I'm just stuck on Chuck Tingle.
- [15:55]
A
Olivia Colman's not doing bullshit. That's what I think. That's how I feel about Ryan Gosling.
- [16:02]
B
I think that's what I think, that I can't get my mind there.
- [16:04]
A
That's understandable. I mean, it's ridiculous in some ways.
- [16:08]
B
Yes.
- [16:09]
A
It's a little odd for me as someone who owns a lot of wicker items.
- [16:12]
B
Yeah.
- [16:13]
A
I posted a photo the other day, and someone was like, have you seen the wicker trailer? It was like, in response to my photo of my home, which I'm glad that that's what I'm conjuring in my design choices. Yeah. I just. I'm ready.
- [16:27]
B
Did you know that Alexander Skarsgrd was not the first actor attached to this role?
- [16:31]
A
I just read it was Dev Patel.
- [16:33]
B
Yeah. Isn't that fascinating? Another great actor.
- [16:35]
A
It is. I would have loved that, too.
- [16:37]
B
Me too.
- [16:38]
A
Another reason why I think it's really good because. Wait, do you know why he dropped out?
- [16:43]
B
I think it was just scheduling conflicts
- [16:46]
A
because I think he's quite picky about stuff too. I mean, he's rarely in things. I'm really excited. I love a weird thing.
- [16:52]
B
Okay, so part of my plan, bringing this as a thing, was to ask you if you could ask anyone involved in this movie one question, what would it be?
- [17:05]
A
Well, I mean, I feel like I will get this answer eventually, but I want to know about the makeup situation.
- [17:11]
B
Yes.
- [17:12]
A
Like, what is it? Cgi? Is it every day he's getting wicker applied to him? Tell me more. I think in the promo of the movie that will be revealed, but I
- [17:22]
B
think that there was some level of the latter. There were definitely prosthetics that were applied daily. I think I saw somewhere that he was in the makeup chair for, like, four hours every day.
- [17:32]
A
Wow. Getting ready well, what's your question for anyone?
- [17:36]
B
I think my question would be for Olivia Colman, and it would be, was it important for your character research or how did you reconcile the potential for splinters in your portrayal of this character?
- [17:49]
A
I'm sure that will be addressed in the film at some point. I mean, does wicker splinter? I don't really.
- [17:55]
B
Yes.
- [17:56]
A
Oh, okay. Well, now when Alexander Skarsgard is involved, maybe he's just a different type of wicker.
- [18:03]
B
I mean. Yeah. I mean, if you can turn a basket into a man, maybe you don't have to address the potential for splinters. Like, we're just suspending our belief.
- [18:11]
A
I think if it's like the perfect man, he's made of wicker, I think that's kind of implied. It's like he's, you know, it's not going to hurt you. I would also flammable, probably. Yeah. I would imagine in a time where most things involve fire, light, food, I think dangerous.
- [18:29]
B
I would also be very curious to hear from the writer of the original short story. It's based on a 2015 short story, which you can just read online. It's free. You don't need to buy anything. By Ursula Willis Jones. And I would be very curious to know if she is surprised that this is being adapted or if she always had a hunch, if this was like a pet project of hers where she was like, yes, this is bigger than itself.
- [18:57]
A
It made me want to write something really weird. It made me want to write a weird short story.
- [19:03]
B
I think you could be great at that.
- [19:05]
A
I own so many pieces of wicker furniture. I'm surprised it was not me who did this. But it just is a reminder that I think we think of stories as. Unless they meet certain conventions, they can't exist mainstream, you know, in some way. But like, it's actually, I think the weirder you go, the better it is in some ways or the more you stand out. And I. I get scared of that sometimes, I guess. But it's all possible. Do whatever you want.
- [19:31]
B
I can't wait. So this is in select theaters October 23rd. Everywhere. October 30th.
- [19:36]
A
Happy Halloween to me.
- [19:38]
B
Happy Halloween. I will be traveling for book events in this period, but I'm hoping that wherever I am, I can find a theater playing this.
- [19:47]
A
What better way to relax amidst pub than to just absolutely settle in with a very French countryside looking basket version of Alexander Skarsgrd.
- [19:59]
B
Mm.
- [20:00]
A
Yeah, I'll be there.
- [20:02]
B
Anything else that you wanted to add to this thing?
- [20:06]
A
I can't Wait to report back. And I hope I love it as much as I think I will.
- [20:11]
B
I hope so too.
- [20:12]
A
Well, what's your next thing?
- [20:14]
B
I can just do a really quick one.
- [20:15]
A
Okay.
- [20:16]
B
I know we do loads every time, every episode, but I think there's some level of self awareness in there that I. I censor myself sometimes where I'm like, you don't want to complain that the lobster is too buttery. Although, you know, I realize that sometimes I. I can be that way. But I would like to know what is the pettiest complaint you have right now? Smallest, stupidest, most mundane. But that is grating your gears.
- [20:43]
A
Yes.
- [20:44]
B
Grinding your gears. Okay, tell me.
- [20:46]
A
I hate shibumis.
- [20:48]
B
I don't know what shibumis are.
- [20:51]
A
Is. They are the most popular form of umbrella on the market right now. They're essentially. It's a flexible plastic rod with two bags of sand. And basically it utilizes the wind to so that this piece of fabric flies backwards and creates shade in the wind. Creates like a wind tunnel. It's lightweight. It's easy to set up.
- [21:13]
B
Now, is this a beach umbrella or is this a rain umbrella? Beach.
- [21:16]
A
Sorry, beach umbrella.
- [21:17]
B
I see.
- [21:18]
A
And they are an epidemic. It is there everywhere. If you go to any beach, you just see shibumi. Shibumi, shibumi up and down the beach. I hate them. And I hate them for a lot of reasons. The first reason is that they're loud because you just hear the flapping of the little fabric in the wind repeatedly. When I'm sitting at the beach, I don't want to hear a repetitive flapping noise unless it's that of wings of birds. And I hate them. I don't like how they look. I don't like that they create an eyesore up and down the beach. I know that an umbrella is difficult. You have to spike the thing in the sand and dig down. And then it can be dangerous if it flies away. I'm pro tent. I just. I am anti shibumi and I don't like them.
- [22:02]
B
This is so interesting. I've never heard of this or seen one.
- [22:05]
A
I guess it might be a southern thing potentially. Because I see them a lot in the Outer Banks. I see them a lot where my parents live in South Carolina. I just. I think they're horrible for everyone. Wow.
- [22:16]
B
This isn't what I expected you to be talking about. I thought maybe it would be something to do with your kitchen renovation. But I'm really glad that I gave you the floor to talk about this.
- [22:25]
A
I could definitely say some Annoying things about the kitchen renovation, but it feels like lacking a self awareness that I can't give in to, to be like, I'm really annoyed by not having a kitchen for three months when I, you know, have no children and I have a flexible job and I have the ability to go buy fast food. But sure, it's. I would like, I would like to have a normal kitchen. Yes.
- [22:51]
B
Frankly, I'm very impressed by how. Well, at least from the outside, you seem to be keeping it together. Because I would be complaint city.
- [23:00]
A
I. I mean, you can probably hear some of it in the background of this today, actually, but it's. We're making a lot of progress, so I'm feeling really quite positive. It's starting to look like a kitchen. I'm feeling really excited. It's been a long time coming, so it's. It's a really cool thing. I also think that people really love shibumis and my parents love a shibumi.
- [23:18]
B
You don't need to defend them. This.
- [23:20]
A
And I just, I know this is going to, this is going to be a lot for some people and I just think they should be banned. Oh, wow. I think they should be banned. That's all I have.
- [23:32]
B
I have no opinion on that topic.
- [23:34]
A
Tell me. I thought about this the other day. I was watching a livestream of a beach and I opened the live stream and there are six shibboomis. And I was like, my God, they're everywhere. Okay, tell me your petty complaint.
- [23:46]
B
Well, what brought this on? I was looking for a reason to complain about this venue. To bring this complaint is when I came home from my trip, all of a sudden, I don't know if somebody moved in above me or they just changed or they installed an air conditioner that they didn't have before. They changed the location of it. Now there is an air conditioner directly above my living room air conditioner. And all day it is just drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip of like the drip of their air conditioner hitting the top of mine, which is obviously a very common city thing that I'm sure many people deal with. It is driving me to madness.
- [24:26]
A
A repetitive noise. This is what we have in common here. No, I'm with you. And how would you prevent that? Because you couldn't like put a piece of something out there?
- [24:36]
B
No, I think that that would mess with the functioning of my air conditioner. I think, you know, it's August 7th, so hopefully we're kind of like winding down summer and maybe this won't be a Problem for much longer. I'm like thinking of asking my building to switch which window my unit is in. My air conditioning unit is in so that it doesn't drip on it.
- [25:01]
A
You don't have to add the second part. You can just say, I want to move it. Right. So then because I think otherwise they'd be. They'd be like, are you okay?
- [25:10]
B
No, I certainly can. However, I've chosen the window where it is because it's in the least obtrusive place. So it would be more inconvenient within my apartment to have the air conditioner or more unsightly in some cases to have the air conditioner in a different window.
- [25:26]
A
Is there like a white noise you can play for the next month or so? Just.
- [25:30]
B
I'm sure, I'm sure. I mean, this morning I've been sitting on my couch working and I have just had noise canceling headphones. But that's not something I feel like I want to need in my own home.
- [25:41]
A
Yeah. Have you thought about setting up a shibumi outside just to sort of counteract the noise of the drip?
- [25:49]
B
You know, as somebody who had not heard of a shibumi and would have guessed really wrong about what it was until five minutes ago.
- [25:58]
A
Yeah.
- [25:58]
B
I have not considered that.
- [26:00]
A
I mean, it's an out of the box choice, I will admit. But I hope it stops because I hate. I hate that kind of just non stop repetition noise.
- [26:09]
B
Oh, the worst. Okay. Thank you for giving me this venue to complain anytime allowing me this venue. Rather. Tell me your next thing.
- [26:19]
A
My next thing is, is kind of a quick one. It's a pop culture thing. Do you watch Hot Ones or you're familiar with it?
- [26:25]
B
Sometimes I get a lot of clips from it. I rarely watch an episode unless I'm seeing so much about it online that I get curious or it's a celebrity that I like, really enjoy.
- [26:39]
A
I've never watched a full one myself, but I really like the clips and I think the premise is interesting and how it kind of forces people into these modes that they're not usually in publicly.
- [26:52]
B
He's also a very good interviewer. He does, yes, his team does a lot of background and he asks very interesting and uncommon questions of people who are interviewed very frequently.
- [27:03]
A
Yes, I agree. I agree. It's very engaging. My question to you is based on, again, a personal sort of plea I have to the universe. Kind of like the shibumi. But I very strongly desire Robert Pattinson to go on Hot Ones because he is so weird and any form of press I see of him. I'm like, you are so unpredictable, so strange. I feel like you are perfect. I feel like you would break down instantly. I need to see it. And I was wondering if there is a celebrity you would really like to see on Hot Ones.
- [27:42]
B
Oh, good question.
- [27:45]
A
And is it Shonda Rhimes?
- [27:47]
B
It's always Shonda Rhimes. I think there's something that I would. I don't think she would ever do it. I do think there's something that would be really interesting about seeing Taylor Swift in that setting. She's so composed and she's so scripted and I wonder if giving her hot wings would break through that at all or if at this point she's so media trained that she could be on fire and it wouldn't matter.
- [28:10]
A
A great, great pick. I feel like that's maybe a little
- [28:15]
B
boring of an answer or like too expected. I'd like to see Tina Fey on Hot Ones.
- [28:21]
A
Oh yeah, that would be good.
- [28:23]
B
I feel like she is such a head person, like a brain person, that seeing her deal with something physical while trying to answer questions would be like, either funny because it would undo her a bit, or I can also see her just flat out rejecting the premise of it. Like, I will not do this. I don't know. I think it would be funny.
- [28:44]
A
I would watch that one too. Or like her and Amy Poehler. I don't know if Amy's done it, but them together I think could really be funny as well. Yeah, of course, them doing pretty much anything is funny, so that helps.
- [28:55]
B
Yeah, I always love the unexpected people who do really great at it. Like, I think Demi Moore was like exceptional at it. Like she was fully unbothered.
- [29:05]
A
How would you be at it?
- [29:06]
B
I think I would be decent. I used to have an incredible heat tolerance until my 35th birthday. Basically I would have eaten fire. If I could have. I think I would have rocked it up until 35. And since 35, my heat tolerance has gone down. I actually have tried. A few New years ago, somebody had gotten the hot sauce set for.
- [29:29]
A
Yeah.
- [29:30]
B
Christmas and they brought it. We did try just like the scantest dollop of what is the one. It's not the last one, but there's like a famous one that's.
- [29:41]
A
Yeah, yeah. How was it?
- [29:44]
B
I mean, it was very spicy. But I think spice is also strange in that sometimes when, even though we had the tiniest droplet of it, sometimes when you put it on food and like you have something to balance it against, it's like less bad I think we maybe did ourselves a disservice by just eating it alone.
- [30:02]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [30:03]
B
But it was painful.
- [30:03]
A
It was like.
- [30:04]
B
I. I understood. How would you do?
- [30:07]
A
Badly. Very badly. Yeah, I. Not good. I. I don't really like spice. I feel I would suffer from such, I don't know, violent acid reflux after that. I. I don't know. Also, I think what would really get me is that I would start sweating a lot and trying to, like, come up with a very cohesive, intelligent answer when you're thinking about how much your upper lip is sweating, which I've had to do on small scales during events, is just not pleasant. Like, I don't want to think about my upper lip that much ever. So I think I would struggle with that also. It wouldn't be good.
- [30:45]
B
I feel like there was a few years ago a producer, somebody involved in this, like, gave a quote to a media outlet. I'm trying to Google it and I can't find it. But basically they were saying, like, a third of guests immediately have diarrhea after finishing the interview.
- [31:01]
A
Oh, yeah, that would be me.
- [31:03]
B
That the bathroom just gets destroyed on that set.
- [31:08]
A
I think Robert Pattinson will be brought to his knees. I think that man looks like his digestive system is just not. It looks very English. You know what I mean?
- [31:18]
B
I was gonna say, I was like, he would either do so well that, like, he's just singed off all of his taste buds and he's like, what do you mean it's hot? Or he would be in the fetal position on the first wing, and there's no in between in my head.
- [31:34]
A
Yeah. Have you seen that clip of him and Tom Holland, I think, playing a sort of, like, heads up game where they try to guess celebrities and they have this card. He can't see it, but it's him on the card and he.
- [31:46]
B
Oh, I haven't seen that one.
- [31:47]
A
And he starts out and he's like, are they ugly? He says in this very. And everyone's like, no, not at all. But they might disagree with this. And then he was like, is it me? Like, I can just tell he's so weird at all times. And I. God only knows what would come out of that mouth. Man's mouth. But I'm petitioning for it. Please hear me out, universe.
- [32:14]
B
No Shibumis doing it. Like, I feel like that's very in the realm of possibility. Like, I would find it highly unlikely that Taylor Swift will ever go on Hot Ones, but I could really see Robert Pattinson being like, yeah, fuck it.
- [32:26]
A
I can too. I'm pretty sure his team is like, that may not go well for us. Like it could be a liability. But I think he's great. I just watched the drama over the weekend with him and Zendaya and I thought he was excellent in it. Like, so, so good. I think he's really, really talented and very bizarre and. Yeah, anyway, that's my plea.
- [32:46]
B
Okay, well, let's take another quick ad break and then we both have one more thing. This episode is sponsored by Masterclass. At the beginning of the year, I said that I wanted to take an art class in 2026 and it sounded easy and achievable at the time. And now I'm looking around and it's August and I have not done a single thing to complete this goal. And I'm looking at my calendar for this fall and I'm wondering when I'm going to squeeze this in. So last night I got on Masterclass and I started looking at their offerings and I saw that there's a class to draw and paint realistic portraits taught by Devin Rodriguez, who is a self taught artist who's one of the biggest art creators on social media.
- [33:31]
A
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- [34:09]
B
I love that. Instead of just doing nothing towards my goal, I can squeeze it in with lessons on my schedule. And if you're taking a less visual class that there's a podcast mode so that you can bring lessons on the go. Masterclass keeps adding new classes so there's never been a better time to get in. Right now, as a listener of this show, you can get 15% off any annual membership@masterclass.com BOP that's 15% off@masterclass.com BOP. Head to masterclass.com BOP to see the latest offer.
- [34:47]
A
Well, tell me your next thing.
- [34:48]
B
Okay, I know that you have only just read your first Ellen Hildebrand, but I think you are aware of her deal and her space in the industry. Yes, and I am personally feeling a large absence this summer without having a summer Ellen book. Maybe it's because there's no summer Emily Henry book either that it feels more acute. But I was wondering if you have any thoughts on if there is an author that might take over Ellen's crown as the Queen of Beach Reads or King of Beach Reads and who will like fill the Ellen summer void?
- [35:27]
A
Hmm, what a question. I mean, I think a kind of obvious answer is Carly Fortune.
- [35:33]
B
I thought the same thing because Carly Fortune has the strongest sense of place in her books and even though she writes across Canada generally like it does feel brandable in a way that many authors do not because they go to different locations. I think the hardest thing for me seeing Carly Fortune taking over this crown is that Carly Fortune writes like a down the line romance versus an Ellen tends to have a romance as a B story. So I don't know that all readers would like naturally segue over to a Carly Fortune and they're open door, which an Ellen Hildebrand is not.
- [36:13]
A
Hmm, that's a good point.
- [36:15]
B
That was one of my thoughts as well though.
- [36:17]
A
I mean, totally different genre. Tell me, I think, did you see that Sarah Damoff just announced her next book?
- [36:24]
B
I did see that.
- [36:26]
A
I think she is building a similar type of audience who just want book after book after book in the same sort of really intense emotional domestic family drama.
- [36:38]
B
Yeah.
- [36:39]
A
Obviously not themes that overlap with Ellen's books, but in terms of readability and pace, I can really see that. And it does seem like she is going the book a year route as far as I can tell. And people are hungry for it. So different kind of idea. I don't know. Did you have anyone else in mind?
- [36:59]
B
I had a couple people, but I don't have anyone that like really neatly fits. I think for me the most obvious one is Jenny Jackson. Jackson, who has this very voicey. It's like a mix of smart and soapy, very readable. But she doesn't have the release pace that Ellen has. So I think Pineapple street came out in 2023. She had a book in 2026. So it's like every three years. I mean she has a very big day job as the editorial director at Knopf. So I understand. But so long as she's doing both, I don't know that she's gonna. I don't know. Without a lot of hard drugs, I don't know that she's going to be able to be on the Ellen Pace. And then also it's not tied to a single location.
- [37:47]
A
Right. I don't know if there's anyone that's doing single location like that except for Carly Fortune in terms of Canada as a whole.
- [37:56]
B
You know the other person I thought who is also a romance author, but I could see her absorbing a lot of Ellen readers is Annabelle Monahan.
- [38:07]
A
Yeah, she popped into my head as well.
- [38:09]
B
It's less spicy. I think there's a lot of appeal to moms. And I think it was fascinating when I did an event with Annabelle Monahan. And so many women coming through the line said that they read these books with their mothers. So women who are millennials reading with their mothers who are, you know, Gen X or boomers, I guess. Probably Gen X. I don't know.
- [38:32]
A
I don't know either.
- [38:33]
B
Anyway, they're mothers. They're mothers. So I could see that. And she usually is writing in a beachy New England place, but a lot of times they're made up locations. Like her most recent one is a made up town in Rhode Island.
- [38:49]
A
Yeah. But generally like a beach read Coastal.
- [38:52]
B
Yeah.
- [38:53]
A
The same way. Yeah. Summery.
- [38:55]
B
Always summery. Yeah. And then have you ever read a Kristy woods and Harvey?
- [39:00]
A
No, but I know the name. Like I can see it on a cover. Yeah.
- [39:05]
B
Christie's been billed as the Ellen of the south, so she generally writes in the Carolinas. So I think she has some stuff in the Outer Banks. I think she might have some stuff in South Carolina too. I've only read one of them and it does have an Ellen vibe.
- [39:21]
A
Okay.
- [39:22]
B
And it was. The story I read was like a mother daughter story. So it is like similar to Ellen Multi pov, not centering romance as the lead story.
- [39:33]
A
I don't know.
- [39:34]
B
I would be curious for like a news piece where someone dug into the bookscan data to see if like any of these similar authors have had like an uptick the last two years. Picking up any of Ellen's bookshare. I don't know how you would analyze that.
- [39:51]
A
I don't either. Do you think there's like a beach book this summer for a beach setting?
- [39:58]
B
I guess I would say the Shampoo Effect, which is set in a North Shore Massachusetts beach town. Do you have a different answer for a book set at a beach?
- [40:09]
A
I would say that's right. I've seen a lot of that. Not that I've been on many beaches lately, but I feel like I've seen it picking up speed as people go on their vacations and post about it.
- [40:18]
B
Yeah, I'm really interested to see. I also think that because the contemporary romance genre has been somewhat oversaturated, there is maybe a move towards more general women's fiction coming back into vogue. And I will just be curious if somebody emerges to take over that book a year Ellen Throne.
- [40:40]
A
We'll see. Who knows? I mean, I don't know if it can be replicated in the same way.
- [40:44]
B
That's true. Maybe. Maybe she's one of one.
- [40:47]
A
Perhaps.
- [40:48]
B
I mean, her work ethic seems one of one from the outside.
- [40:51]
A
It's a tough schedule. It's very tough.
- [40:53]
B
Tough schedule. I'll be curious if the listeners have any other ideas of authors who fit this bucket, too. What about you? What's your last thing?
- [41:02]
A
My last thing is a question that I saw in a clip of. I don't know if you ever listen to All Things Considered on npr, but the host's name is Rachel Martin. And I saw a clip of her interviewing Tracee Ellis Ross. And the question was, what is a moment from your life that you wish you could relive? Not to change anything. You can't change anything. Just to like, linger in the moment, exactly how it is and just be in it and, like, absorb it. And Tracee Ellis Ross gave this answer about her dog, Ladybug, who was very dear to her and how when. So I'm going to cry again. I, like, cried immediately. But it was basically how she was there for Ladybug at the end of her life and kind of was like, tell me when it's time, you know, and I'll be there for you. And it was like the honor of her life to have this moment with her dog who, like, gave her so much love and life and beauty and everything. And whoever's listening should look up the clip because it was just really moving. But I thought it was such an interesting question of, like, because I think we all think about moments where we wish things were different or we would have changed something, but not as much, maybe about the moments where it was perfect, like, or not even perfect. It was just something when you look back on it, you know, was not supposed to be another way or couldn't be another way or wouldn't want it another way.
- [42:35]
B
That's so interesting. Tell me what you landed on for your moment.
- [42:41]
A
Oh, I thought of so many things. One thing that came to mind is that I would love to relive like a peak high school best friendship sleepover with like my high school best friends when it was just like we only cared about each other, the staying up all night, the laughing till we Cried about literally the dumbest things you can possibly imagine. Making weird videos on imovie. Like just the purity of not having any big issues, you know, Like a lot of us hadn't experienced many hard things. Like a lot. Most of us hadn't had boyfriends like, or girlfriends or anything. And so it was just this moment of like pure encapsulated friendship where that is the only thing that matters to you and that's like the biggest part of your life. And I have so many, like just beautiful memories like that with my friends. But it's funny, when you get older, it's like those moments don't happen in the same way, you know they do. But like life is so big, you know, you have your career and you have your goals and you have money and partners and everything. And there's also. There's just like so much beyond it that it's hard to really be in it.
- [43:58]
B
There's also a purity too. And I don't think this exists anymore. But like of the boredom of that time. Like you were doing such random things because you were bored because there were no phones and because, you know, what was on TV was just the only thing that was on at that moment.
- [44:15]
A
Yes. I would love to relive those early days where we weren't on our phones and there was no, you know, there was no scrolling. Like we were. If we were watching tv, we were watching it together. If we were at the mall, we were at the mall together. We weren't staring at our phones, even if we were maybe texting someone or whatever. I guess that's general. But that was one thing that came to mind because I just feel like, I don't know, pure. It was pure, as you said. Yeah. Does anything come to mind for you?
- [44:44]
B
I mean, I think it would have to be something with my mom. If anyone's a newer listener here. My mom died when I was 15 and I kind of feel like maybe every summer we used to go on a trip to Maine. And when I was a younger kid we would go to York beach, which is very kid friendly. And then as I got older we would go to a gonquit and I would love to relive a day on one of those trips because I have so many memories that are very general of places we would go of things we ate that were traditions. Like we would always get saltwater taffy. But I don't remember what we talked about. And I would love to go back to some of those childhood memories and observe them in their specificity that has just been lost to time.
- [45:32]
A
Yeah. It's strange to think about. You know, logically, when you get older, you forget things, but it's so weird to think about the things that you've, you can't, you don't even realize you've forgotten necessarily as well, all those, like, little, I don't know, forgotten moments. Yeah.
- [45:47]
B
Yeah. That's a beautiful question.
- [45:50]
A
I, I thought it was really nice. I highly suggest anyone watch that clip because I was like, oh, why would you go back to a tough moment? You know? But then I thought, I don't know, sometimes in retrospect you realize the beauty in them too.
- [46:04]
B
Well, let's take one last ad break and then let's get into some n matter. I was just away for 10 days and when I came home, I could not wait to eat a home cooked meal. I was pulling out my Caraway home Dutch oven before I'd even unpacked my suitcase. I know it's a little premature, but I made this really delicious lemon chicken soup and I've been eating it all week, heating it up in my new mini saucepan from Caraway's Minis duo that I'm absolutely obsessed with. Which probably will not be surprising because you know, I love any mini kitchen utensil. My Caraway cookware is easy to cook with. The ceramic coated surface means nothing sticks. And it's easy to clean too, on my end.
- [46:50]
A
Like I said, my kitchen is not exactly in a complete working state right now during the renovation. But it does bring me a bit of peace to know that at least my fridge can be organized with all of my sliced fruit and my little berries in the glass jar. And I love the lids of the Caraway food storage containers the most because they have that glass top where you can see in and it just looks, looks so nice. I cannot wait until the kitchen is done, especially because I am about to just go into full ina garden mode, I think. I hope that's the goal. And if you're also looking forward to cooking more this fall, make sure you have the right tools in your arsenal. Caraway makes clean cookware that is trusted in over 2.5 million homes. Over 155,000 people have rated their Caraway Kitchen products five stars. And now it's time for you to try it yourself.
- [47:43]
B
Right now you can save up to $230 on the 12 piece cookware set versus buying the products individually. And you can find even more set savings when you shop Caraway's full kitchenware collection. Plus for A limited time. Every dollar you spend on clean kitchenware gets you closer to your Dream Kitchen or $100,000 cash. Visit CarawayHome.com BoP to take an additional 10% off your next purchase. This deal is excluded, exclusive for our listeners, so visit carawayhome.com BOP or use code BOP at checkout. Tell me what you're obsessed with this week.
- [48:24]
A
I am obsessed with the Edam. This is quite the name. If I have one complaint, it's the. It's the name. The Edam Choo Choo Lip Softening Balm in the color Guava Fresca. It's a lot of words. It is essentially a lip balm gloss that I got at Sephora impulsively the other day because I like the packaging.
- [48:46]
B
So the word softening is throwing me here. Does it do something different than a regular lip balm?
- [48:52]
A
No, it's just. It's just a hydrating, glossy lip balm.
- [48:57]
B
Yes.
- [48:58]
A
But the color is beautiful. And I got guava fresco, like I said, and it's this really, really pretty pink shade. But it smells so good that I can practically taste it. It is so juicy. Like, it is like you're eating a fruit. But I love how it looks. I love how it feels. It reminds me a bit of, like, a more wearable version of the Laneige sleeping Mask. Like, that's kind of how it feels, but it's thinner, so you can wear it every day. And it has, like, a really lovely tint to it. Yeah, I really, really like this product. Also, it has a really nice metal applicator, which I love. It feels great on.
- [49:37]
B
You might have just made yourself a sale, girly. I have to go to Sephora later today because I need more foundation. And I don't know. This sounds very summery and delightful.
- [49:48]
A
That's why I went and it was there at the checkout counter. And I was just like, you know what? I'm doing it. I didn't even swatch it. I'd never heard of it. I was just like, I'm doing it. And it was really. I love it so much. I think it's so pretty.
- [50:00]
B
Okay, I'm gonna keep an eye out for it. I feel like it's Friday. I feel like I deserve a treat.
- [50:05]
A
You do, you do? Well, what's your obsession?
- [50:08]
B
Okay, mine's a little vague because I don't have a brand name on this, so it's just the concept of microfiber glasses cleaning cloths. Straightforward when I was very straightforward. So when I was in Italy, the other month, at one point, I'd gotten sunscreen on my sunglasses or something, and I was like, does anyone have a cloth to, like, wipe this off? You know, I never bought a specific cloth for it. I always just use what comes with the sunglasses, usually that, like, silky one. Anyway, my friend's husband was like, oh, yeah, I have one. And I used it, and my sunglasses have never been cleaner. And for that whole trip, like, every day, I was like, dave, can I use your. Your cleaning cloth? And he was like, yes. And he was like, I'm gonna bring you one when I see you in Maine for the lobster roll off. And, Olivia, this stupid cleaning cloth has changed my life. I feel like my glasses were never fully clean. I use it on my phone lens for the camera, and it makes such a difference. Like, I feel like I have been living a fingerprint smudged life until now.
- [51:16]
A
Wow. Your world is clear.
- [51:18]
B
Oh, my world is clear.
- [51:20]
A
Quite the endorsement. Microfiber cloth.
- [51:23]
B
I mean, I feel like there must be one that you just order on Amazon. I don't know what brand this is. It's literally just a brandless cloth. So if anyone has a brand wreck, please drop it in the Facebook group.
- [51:36]
A
Well, what have you read?
- [51:38]
B
So I have read two books, both by men, which is unusual, and I
- [51:43]
A
am currently reading one of them, so.
- [51:45]
B
Oh, interesting. So the first book I read is called Make Nice by Ryan Efgan. And this book was pitched as Sandwich Meets the Wedding People. And I was just like, that's all I need to know. I will be there. And so it's set at a resort on Mackinac island in Michigan. And three adult siblings come for a family reunion with their elderly father. One of them brings their teenage daughter. And everyone has secrets and kind of like their own agenda for the weekend. And I see the wedding people comp. I do not see the sandwich comp. I mean, I guess it has to do with families on a beach. I actually think that the better comp would have been the Nest by Cynthia Dupree Sweeney about kind of adult siblings and their relationships with each other and their secrets from each other, et cetera. I found this really fun. I think I ended up being a, like, not a love on it because. And that could be user error. I read it over the course of two weeks. So I was constantly picking it up and putting it down, and I feel like I never truly sank all the way into it. But it's very fun. It's very voicey. One of the brothers is a snail scientist, and it's like a very particular character, which I really enjoyed. So.
- [53:05]
A
Yeah.
- [53:05]
B
And also it's edited by Jenny Jackson and I feel like I'm just fascinated by certain editors lists, hers being one of them.
- [53:13]
A
Yeah, same.
- [53:15]
B
And then I'm almost done. I'm like 90% done. So I'm gonna just go with it and talk about it. I'm 90% done with main characters by Bobby Palmer. I am obsessed with this book.
- [53:27]
A
Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad, because I am too. I'm 60% of the way through it. I have so many thoughts and I.
- [53:36]
B
I'm actually kind of mad that it doesn't coincide with being a book club picking time. Because I'm like, oh, I have so much to say about this.
- [53:45]
A
Wait, I was thinking I might pick it for next month.
- [53:48]
B
I would welcome that. Okay, so this is a book. I think we've maybe talked about it here before. It is a literary romance about a kind of decades long love story between this couple told from the point of view of everyone but the couple. So it's rotating pov and some of them are from people who are very adjacent to their lives. Like, sometimes it's a co worker or a friend, but sometimes it's like the guy in the pizza shop who's just observing them and so you don't get any of their interiority. You're like fully observing their relationship from the outside. And both as a craft exercise, like, I am blown away by this. But then also I think the meat of the story, like the crux of the story, a lot of it has to do with the interplay between ambition and motherhood. And I found the thematic content really fascinating too. I am obsessed with this.
- [54:46]
A
Okay. I am too. And all I want to do is think about it and talk about it. And from a craft perspective, as you said. Like, it just makes you think. I just. Anyway, we're going to save it because you know what? I think it might be September's pick.
- [55:04]
B
You heard it here first. Get your library holds in because it's so freaking smart.
- [55:10]
A
Like, I. Every chapter I was like, oh, my. Cause the. Get the. Okay, whatever. We're gonna save it. We're gonna save it.
- [55:17]
B
We're gonna save it.
- [55:17]
A
Okay, but love, I'm so glad you're here.
- [55:19]
B
I'm thrilled that you're loving it too.
- [55:20]
A
I'm so excited to get to that last chapter because all I can think about, whose POV is it gonna be? Whose POV is it gonna be? And I have some ideas. I've been Wrong. Anyway, I'm saving it.
- [55:31]
B
Tell me what you've read this week.
- [55:32]
A
I read Mad Mabel by Sally Hepworth, which was recommended to me by. It felt like dozens and dozens of people. Everyone I talked to seemed to love it. This is a story about a woman in her 80s in Australia who was the youngest convicted murderer in the country and spent many years in jail and then, I guess, paroled. And she lives in this apartment building with all of these kind of nosy neighbors, and when one of them dies, they suspect her.
- [56:04]
B
They.
- [56:04]
A
There are some dark themes in this story, but I would kind of call it like a cozy mystery, a cozy thriller. The voice is really strong. I really like this. I wanted something that was different but still had suspense, which this was. It's very readable, very quick, very easy. It was a solid like for me, for sure.
- [56:23]
B
Okay.
- [56:24]
A
And then I also read the Seekers of Deer Creek by Tao Tai, which just came out a couple days ago as we're recording this. This is a literary mystery about two sisters. Both of them work in the art world and they discover a series of family secrets through a really famous painting. And I actually thought maybe, Becca, you would really like this one because I know you. I know you like art heist, right?
- [56:51]
B
Yes, But I do like anything that has an art plot line, so as long as it's not scary or violent. No, I could be very into this.
- [56:59]
A
Not scary, not violent. There's a very heavy through line of art that I think is just beautifully done. And yeah, I really, really enjoyed this one. It was just like the perfect little bite sized literary mystery. I think it's maybe like, it's probably less than 300 pages, but it just really, really moves. And I just thought it was lovely. I thought it was lovely. I love Tao Tai's first book, Banyan Moon, and if you liked that, I think you'll definitely like this.
- [57:26]
B
Okay, well, if none of those appeal to you, and we have some very heavy recommendations in there, we also have our August book club pick, which is the book Witch by Meg Shafer. And I feel like I have been remiss that I haven't hit this hard enough. But I need to emphasize that this is not a spooky, witchy book. So, like, this is not pulling up the Halloween timeline. Like, it's a cozy book about books, but it's not like Halloweeny in any way. I feel like I saw some people talking or in my DMs saying that they were gonna save it, and I was like, oh, no, it's not Halloween Witchy. So anyway, the book is about a book witch named Rainy March who has the ability to step into books, and in doing so she's helping to write wayward characters, and she's protecting the books from the evil book burners who are attacking the books from the inside out. You can probably some parallels with book banning and she's a great book witch, but she breaks the cardinal rule of book witchery, which is that you cannot get involved with any of the characters and she falls in love with the main character from her favorite detective novel series. First of all, it's an ode to book lovers and book culture, but I also found it really surprising. Like, it just has so many smart twists. So it feels a little saccharine at the beginning, but it keeps pivoting and oh my gosh, I loved this so much I sobbed. I considered getting the first line tattooed on my body. I loved it. I can't wait to discuss it with you. So we'll be discussing that the last Wednesday of the month.
- [59:12]
A
And if you want to talk about any of the things we've discussed here today, you can join us in the Facebook group under badonpaper podcast. We're also on the BFF app under batonpaper podcast and on Instagram @badonpaper podcast. And I am on the Internet Olivia Mentor.
- [59:29]
B
I am on Instagram ecamfreeman. My newsletter is@beccafreeman.substack.com and we are officially less than two months away from the release of my second book, Back Where We Started, which comes out October 13th.
- [59:44]
A
Air horns now.
- [59:45]
B
Ooh, air horns. I would love it if you pre ordered it. You can also get a signed pre order through the ripped bodice and that link is linked on a highlight on my Instagram profile if you need it. Or you can just google it or order it wherever your favorite bookstore is. I would be so grateful.
- [60:06]
A
You should do that. All right, bye.
- [60:08]
B
See you next week.