Debut Author Spotlight

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bad On Paper – Debut Author Spotlight
Host/Authors: Becca Freeman & Olivia Muenter
Episode: Debut Author Spotlight
Release Date: November 13, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of Bad On Paper, hosts Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter shift gears from their usual book discussions and banter to focus on celebrating new voices in the literary world. The episode spotlights three debut authors, delving into their newly released books, unique publishing journeys, and valuable writing advice. Whether you're an aspiring writer or an avid reader, this episode promises insightful conversations and inspiring stories.

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1. Marian Chambari – A Little Less Broken

Quick Pitch:
Marian Chambari introduces her memoir, A Little Less Broken, which explores her late diagnosis of autism at age 34. The book delves into her childhood, romantic relationships, parenthood, and the broader issues women face in healthcare.

Publishing Journey:
Marian’s path to publication was unconventional. She did not experience the long series of rejections typical in the publishing industry. Instead, after publishing a short essay about her autism diagnosis on Cup of Joe, she received immediate interest from literary agents. Marian states:

"[07:00] 'I wrote a very short essay… and I published that essay, I got a lot of literary agents in my inbox… That's the unique story was that the agents approached me.'"

Working closely with a supportive editor, Marian rapidly developed her book’s proposal and completed her manuscript, benefiting from a collaborative editing process that transformed her approach from a "pantser" to a structured "plotter."

Advice for Aspiring Memoirists:
Marian encourages writers to disregard common pessimistic advice about memoir publishing, emphasizing that a well-crafted, thoughtful memoir can find its place regardless of the author's fame. She advises:

"[20:28] 'Don't listen to people telling you that memoir is impossible to sell… I would just be careful of, like, is that feedback actually coming from your A rejection, or is it coming from your own personal experience? ... That was not my experience.'"

Recommended Book:
Marian passionately recommends "The Enchanted Life of Adam Hope" by Rhonda Riley, praising its blend of supernatural elements with deep themes of gender, love, and grief.

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2. Amanda Eisenberg – People Are Talking

Quick Pitch:
Amanda Eisenberg presents her upcoming novel, People Are Talking, set to release on April 22, 2025. The story follows best friends Mel and Danny, former vigilantes tracking rapists on their college campus, who reunite after a friend is accused of sexual assault. The dual narratives explore personal and political dimensions with a touch of humor, inspired by Veronica Mars.

Publishing Journey:
Amanda took a non-traditional route by submitting her manuscript directly to a small press without an agent. Her breakthrough came unexpectedly when a student offered to submit her work to a small Manhattan press, resulting in a publishing offer within a month. She shares:

"[34:31] 'I started by querying agents but ended up getting an offer from a small press through a student's help… my editor, Ashlyn Petro, is a saint.'"

This expedited her timeline, allowing her to release her book in a much shorter period compared to the typical two-year publishing process.

Advice for Aspiring Writers:
Amanda underscores the importance of overcoming perfectionism. She stresses the value of completing a full draft before delving into revisions, advocating for consistency and word count goals to maintain momentum:

"[37:29] 'The practice of writing is the most important thing. Rather than focusing on whether or not it's good, you will revise it to be better.'"

Recommended Book:
Amanda highly recommends "One Star Romance" and "Between Friends and Lovers" by Shirlene Obuo, praising their depth, humor, and emotional resonance.

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3. Courtney Price – Welcome Home, Caroline Klein

Quick Pitch:
Courtney Price introduces her novel, Welcome Home, Caroline Klein, a small-town romance about Nora, who returns to her hometown in Alabama to run her family’s casket store after her parents' deaths. She becomes involved with Garrett, a logistics coordinator for a Death Corporation, leading her to confront past relationships and personal growth.

Publishing Journey:
Courtney’s journey was marked by persistence despite initial setbacks. After her first nonfiction book failed to secure an agent, she pivoted to fiction, drawing inspiration from personal experiences and family history in baseball. Utilizing Jami Attenberg’s "1000 Words a Day" challenge, Courtney completed her novel within a year and secured a publishing deal through a small press after her agent provided valuable feedback.

"[55:10] 'I committed to writing this novel instead of another nonfiction project… It took exactly one year from inception to first draft.'"

Advice for Aspiring Writers:
Courtney emphasizes the power of routine and community. She advises writers to build supportive networks and focus on their own work rather than comparing themselves to others:

"[62:50] 'Confidence is built when you keep a promise that you make to yourself… Eyes on your own paper… Work on building your community.'"

Recommended Book:
Courtney recommends "Never Been Better" by Leanne Toshka Simpson, highlighting its captivating blend of humor, depth, and unexpected twists that resonate with fans of "Silver Linings Playbook".

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Personal Insights and Recommendations

Beyond author spotlights, Becca and Olivia share their personal obsessions and book recommendations, adding a relatable and engaging layer to the episode.

Becca’s Obsession:
Becca is currently enjoying Macintosh apples, delighting in their flavor and incorporating them into her daily routine as a source of comfort.

Olivia’s Obsession:
Olivia is immersed in puzzling, finding solace and mental escape in completing complex puzzles. She shares her enthusiasm for a particularly challenging piece:

"[72:22] 'It's so difficult, I can't even describe it to you… Maybe you'll get on a train after this and just come up for the evening to puzz?'"

Book Recommendations:

• Becca: Deep Cuts by Holly Brickley – A literary romance set in the early 2000s indie music scene.
• Olivia:
  • Babel by R.F. Kuang – A dark fantasy set in 1800s Oxford, exploring themes of colonialism and racism.
  • We Used to Live Here by Marcus Kleiver – A thriller/horror novel about a couple encountering supernatural elements in their new home.

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Conclusion

The Debut Author Spotlight episode of Bad On Paper offers a rich tapestry of experiences from three inspiring new authors. Marian Chambari, Amanda Eisenberg, and Courtney Price share their unique paths to publication, dispel common myths about debut writing, and provide invaluable advice for aspiring authors. Coupled with personal anecdotes and book recommendations from Becca and Olivia, this episode is a treasure trove for anyone passionate about the literary world.

Whether you're seeking inspiration for your writing journey or looking for new books to delve into, this episode of Bad On Paper promises to both inform and entertain.

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Notable Quotes:

• Marian Chambari:

  "[12:46] 'I wrote an essay… and after I published that essay, I got a lot of literary agents in my inbox.'"

• Amanda Eisenberg:

  "[36:51] 'I want it to be a conversation book.'"

• Courtney Price:

  "[62:50] 'Confidence is built when you keep a promise that you make to yourself.'"

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Where to Find the Authors:

• Marian Chambari: maranchimbari.com
• Amanda Eisenberg: manda.eisenberg.com
• Courtney Price: cocogolightly.com | Instagram: @aurenevanswrites | @coco_golightly

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Join the Conversation:

Listeners are encouraged to join the Geneva Group on Facebook for a supportive community of writers and readers. Follow Becca on Instagram @beccafreeman and Olivia on Instagram @oliviamentor for more updates and insights.

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Note: This summary is based on the provided transcript and aims to encapsulate the essence and key elements of the podcast episode.

Transcript

[Becca Freeman]

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Baton Paper Podcast. I'm Becca Freeman.

[Olivia Mentor]

And I'm Olivia Mentor.

[Becca Freeman]

And today we are talking to some debut novelists about their books that came out in 2024, and I think we have one that comes out in 2025, and what their books are about and what their experience has been like and if they have writing advice. So I think whether you're a reader or a writer, you will enjoy this one.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, it's a fun one. Olivia, should we start with the low?

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, let's start with that. Go for it, Milo. Is the presidential election seconded? The fact that we have, as a nation, elected a convicted felon and someone who tried to overturn the results of the last election, and I could go on as president once again, in this exact moment, I have a lot of anger. I've been through. I feel like I've been through multiple stages of grief. I am mad about a lot of things, but I cannot believe we have normalized this. It baffles my mind. I was talking to you, Becca, about this before, but I had people in my DM saying things like, not all Trump voters are bad people. There's just bad eggs. And I was like, the bad egg is the person you have elected, the leader of the whole thing is a bad person. I don't know how we have lost the plot so entirely. Anyway, I don't know. It sucks. It sucks.

[Becca Freeman]

It sucks. And I'd said this on a previous podcast episode, but I had really let myself hope and believe that it would not be this way. And I don't regret that. I don't think that the answer is to be pessimistic about everything, but I was shocked by this result. And, I mean, I have my bursts of anger, but right now I would say I am predominantly sad and full of dread.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. Yes. I have those moments as well. It is very sad.

[Becca Freeman]

It's very sad. I feel like on the totem pole of grievances, I am nowhere near the top, and I feel this way. So I can only imagine how anyone who is trans, who is undocumented, or have family, who is undocumented, just the myriad of people whose rights are at risk because of this election and the fact that seemingly people could say it's about the price of gas, which is lower than it's been in 16 years, as opposed to, like, the actual basic human rights of people.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. I mean, there's so much to talk about, about the loss that I feel like we could just do a whole episode, probably. But I Don't know. I am just baffled that we have forgotten the importance of decency in a human being and having an elected leader who is willing to have people work for him that disagree with him beyond everything else, the fact that he will just fire people that disagree with him. I'm like, how is this the country we want to live in? I just. Anyway, clearly I don't have really succinct thoughts, but I'm with you. It's terrible. It's hard.

[Becca Freeman]

So I think we can agree the lows are lower than the highs this week. But what is your high or what is something that is getting you through?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes, my high has been just finding community with people who feel the same way, talking to my friends who feel the same way, hanging out in person with friends who are all worried about the same things and sad about the same things. Being in the Geneva group and talking to people has been really comforting to me. And none of us are alone in this feeling. And I've written and talked about this a little bit, but I felt so deeply alone in a weird way. Even though of course I have a partner who shares my views and I have family who shares my views. But it just feels scary and isolating and having that community has been so comforting to me.

[Becca Freeman]

Not to bring us back to the low territory, but to bring us back to the low territory. I feel like this election result has also made me irrationally mad at my phone and disgusted by my phone behaviors, even as I am consuming more screen time than ever. Reading all of, like the post election recaps and like, all of the finger pointing of like, where did this go wrong? And I, I agree with you that I really desire to be in community with people away from my phone offline in this moment, as opposed to reading all the articles about it and I.

[Olivia Mentor]

Don'T know, all the finger pointing too, that's going on right now. Yeah, all of the splintering within, like, you know, the left as a whole, where no matter where you sit, like more moderate or more liberal or whatever, it's very anxiety inducing, I think. And a lot of it is happening on social media, I think as well. But what is your high? Back to highs.

[Becca Freeman]

My high is that I put up my Christmas tree over the weekend. I actually bought a new Christmas tree. I did not buy a silver tree.

[Milo]

Silver?

[Becca Freeman]

Nope.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, okay.

[Becca Freeman]

No, I did not buy a silver tree as I threatened to on this podcast. I was gonna put up my old one and I plugged it in and half the lights didn't work. And so I looked on Instacart to see what I could get at Home Depot in an hour and there were no silver options. And I was like, this is happening right now. I will not wait two days for Amazon prime shipping. And so I just, I got what there was.

[Olivia Mentor]

I support that very, very intensely.

[Becca Freeman]

Thank you. It is shocking how much my mental health right now is tied into Christmas lights and candles.

[Olivia Mentor]

Listen, that's what we have right now. Yep, that's what we have. We're going to work with what we have. So sparkly lights. Yes.

[Becca Freeman]

Yep.

[Olivia Mentor]

So did you decorate the whole thing? It's all ready to go.

[Becca Freeman]

So I decorated it 20 twice because I decorated it and then I decided that I wanted to put up garland and so that I undecorated it and put up garland, which I'm not sure I even like. I will share photos in my newsletter this Sunday so you can see it. I really don't want anyone's opinion, but yeah, it's helping.

[Olivia Mentor]

Do you have a tradition when you decorate the tree? Do you listen or watch something specific or are you just kind of like whatever's going on?

[Becca Freeman]

I don't think. I didn't curate vibes at all. I just was doing it. I think I was listening to my dinner party playlist, but I wasn't trying to curate any type of vibe. I was just like.

[Olivia Mentor]

You weren't wearing a onesie made of flannel or something?

[Becca Freeman]

No, I was just like, will this make me feel better? What will make me feel better? Will anything make me feel better?

[Olivia Mentor]

It was a utilitarian. You were like, this will serve a purpose, it will make me happy. And I'm going to do it right now.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, good. It sounds lovely.

[Becca Freeman]

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[Olivia Mentor]

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[Becca Freeman]

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[Olivia Mentor]

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[Becca Freeman]

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[Olivia Mentor]

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[Becca Freeman]

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[Olivia Mentor]

So like Becca mentioned at the top of the episode, we're gonna talk to four debut authors today. Obviously Becca and I have had debut novels come out in the past year and change and we have benefited from having an audience so much so we thought it would be nice to sort of Pay it forward and give other debut authors a platform and to hear about their books. Obviously we wish we could feature every single debut author ever, but we have stuck to four and hopefully it'll give you some things to read.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm really glad we're doing this. We did not plan it timed with the election whatsoever. It just happened to be what we already had in our edit calendar. But this week it feels really good to kind of use our platform and community to support other authors.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, we are so excited to have Marian Chambari here with us, who is the author of A Little Less Broken and here about your journey to publication, which is actually a little bit different, I think, than a lot of people. But first, can you give us the quick pitch for your book?

[Marian Chambari]

Yes, the quick pitch. The quick pitch is that I was diagnosed autistic at 34, which is unusual. I feel like our stereotypes of autistic people are nine year old boys who only talk about trains. So it came as quite the surprise. And the memoir is about getting diagnosed late in life, but it's primarily like a childhood memoir. Growing up feeling different, being in romantic relationships, feeling different, becoming a parent feeling different, and then finally kind of getting the answer to why I felt so different for 34 years. And then it kind of goes into a little bit more of the kind of universal elements of women getting dismissed in healthcare and how doctors hate us. The end.

[Becca Freeman]

So I feel like both of you just alluded to this secret that you have about your publishing journey and how it was unique. And now you have to tell me and the rest of the listeners so we can be in on the secret too. Like what was unique about your publishing journey?

[Marian Chambari]

Okay, it wasn't unique in that like you hear stories like this all the time. It was just I always hesitate to talk about it because it's such a, like a. I didn't toil for 10 years and pitch like a hun. I didn't get a ton of rejections, which I always hate saying. Cause I know that's like part of the process. But I've been rejected in a lot of other ways. Publishing this book was not one of them. So yeah, so I wrote an essay about the diagnosis for kind of my favorite lifestyle website called cup of Joe. And I just like commented on a post being like autism, she'd like linked to another late diagnosed autistic article. And I was like, let me tell you about my journey. And she was like, yes, absolutely, I would love that. So I wrote a very short essay in like a week Just being exactly what I just told you, right, about growing up feeling different. The diagnosis, why so many women and girls seem to be getting diagnosed with autism or ADHD right now. It feels very trendy. And what that actually means from a cultural standpoint. And after I published that essay, I got a lot of literary agents in my inbox. So that's the unique story was that the agents approached me. I had not intended to write a book about this. I have like four quarter finished novel manuscripts about various witches. So this is not my beat. I don't really read a lot of nonfiction or a lot of memoir. So I had a bunch of interviews with amazing agents and I just kind of picked one. And she ended up being amazing. And I. Very quickly, I had this, once I signed with her, I was like, okay, I'm going to work on this proposal. Because she wanted me to write a book about the autism. And she was like, okay, can you get this to me in three weeks? And I was like, the main hitch. The proposals, the proposal, the proposal. But even still, I was like, maybe the whole summer, maybe three months if I like work my ass off. Because I had a full time job at the time writing. So like, I don't want to write at 5pm after eight hours of writing. But I don't know, she was pushy and scared me, so I was like, okay. And I did. And then I had a bunch of meetings with publishers and one of them bought it. The end. That's the story.

[Becca Freeman]

And I don't know that we've ever talked process on here with somebody who's written a nonfiction book. So with nonfiction, it sounds like you sell the book on a proposal. So it kind of tells you what the book is gonna be and there's some sample material. And then how does actually writing the book work? Because you said that you have a bunch of half written, quarter written novels that you've abandoned. Is it more collaborative in terms of like you and your editor are working together to figure out how to write a book in the first place?

[Marian Chambari]

Yes, yes, yes to all of those things. I'm so glad I got to do it this way because now I feel so much more comfortable going back to my old projects because I understand what I need to do now. But yes. My agent sent me like four proposals. Here are four proposals that are very similar to your book, right? Medical mysteries, childhood memoirs, that type of thing. And they were really focused on the marketing and the platform side of things and a chapter summary. So I did have to have an outline, right? They Wanted to see start to finish. What is going to be in this book? Do you understand the arc of the story that you're telling? And then I only had to do one full chapter, and that was kind of it for the proposal. Once the book sold, I then had a couple meetings with the editor who bought it, and we talked a little bit about the outline. Some places where she thought, hey, you should go deeper here, or I think these two chapters can probably be combined. But what was so cool about doing that? Because I always thought I was like, a pantser type of writer. It just comes to me in the art of the moment. But actually having the whole thing outlined ahead of time, which took about three weeks, I felt so much more confident going forward and just writing those things. So my editor, I got really, really, really lucked out with my editor. She was hyper, collaborative, and really, she's just like, present. So she said, why don't you go ahead and just, like, draft the first six chapters and send them to me? So that's what I did. I drafted them, I sent them to her. Then I worked on the next six while she got her notes together. And we just did that three times. I took all her notes, I went through each chapter chunk again, sent her the notes six chapters at a time, and then we did it again. So once we'd gone through that three times, I had a finished book. And having that accountability, someone who I could call on the phone and be like, lee, I'm freaking out. I don't understand where this section is going. And she knew the material enough to be like, hey, why don't you try this? Or, yeah, you're right. I don't know if that's working. What are you trying to do here? And those conversations really helped me flesh it out a bit more. And I don't think. I don't think I could write another book without that. I'm like, the job that I had before this, I was a copywriter for six years for, like, a big influencer. And that was how we worked. We worked collaboratively. So I think I'm just used to being in, like, a writer's room in a way. And so having editorial feedback throughout the entire writing process was like, oh, my God. So helpful.

[Olivia Mentor]

So you're officially a plotter now, I guess.

[Marian Chambari]

Oh, 100%. 100%. I did not know that about myself, and now I do.

[Olivia Mentor]

So your book came out about. Well, in September, right?

[Marian Chambari]

Yeah, yeah, less than two months ago.

[Olivia Mentor]

So you're still kind of in the beginning of your debut I guess year experience. But what has it been like for you? Was it different than you expected? Better, Worse?

[Marian Chambari]

Well, thanks to you, actually, and your emails being like, if it sucks, that's okay, and take time off. Like, I found those really like, that advice really helpful. I absolutely assumed that the day my book came out, I would be a different person, that I would just be magically changed and everyone would know who I am. I like, hid my address on the Internet because I was like, people are gonna dox me. No one gives a shit who I am. Do you know what I mean? It was not like that at all. I don't know why I thought it would be, because autism's not like a cool topic. Like, I watch people's eyes glaze over when I talk about it. So, yeah, there was this kind of like a little bit of surprise that no one gives a shit after the book came out. But I did know that that was a common feeling from talking to other writers. But weirdly on the flip side, I've been so surprised at the people that do care, like, going on. I went on a six city tour and so for two weeks I was like on the road and I was meeting readers in person. And at all these like, like, I went to Harvard bookstore. I was the most intimidated I've ever been in my whole life. And the room was packed and people were coming in off the street because they could hear us like laughing and they just like bought it off the street. And so that kind of level of engagement from people and the people who came up to me afterwards with like tears in their eyes or the parents of autistic kids who were like, I cannot wait to read this so I can understand my own child. Those things felt so surprising to me. So like, oh, I didn't realize people would actually read this and it would impact them. And so I've. I don't know, I'm getting like emails every day from people with this type of thing. And I, as someone who's like, not on social media, I don't have a platform that has been like a really lovely, pleasant surprise.

[Becca Freeman]

That's wonderful.

[Marian Chambari]

Thanks.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm curious, do you have any advice for anyone else who is thinking about wanting to write a memoir? I feel like I know nothing about memoir, but I feel like something I constantly hear in writing circles online is how hard it is that there's not a lot of interest in memoir from publishers. And so I guess, do you have any advice, having gone through the process?

[Marian Chambari]

Yeah, I mean, I don't have any oh, my God. Okay, number one, I say boo to that. I have heard so many writers say that to me, oh, memoir's really hard to publish right now.

[Becca Freeman]

And like, yeah, that seems to be the common refrain.

[Marian Chambari]

So common. And I just, like, don't know what to say to that because, like, my book sold for enough money that I don't have to work for years. Like, that has not been my experience. And like I said, people like to say, oh, it's impossible to sell a memoir unless you're a celebrity. I don't know what else to say to that other than, like, that was not my own individual experience. I'm not an agent, I'm not a publisher. So maybe from the other side that maybe that's true. I do think that when people get rejected, they're off. Instead of being like, hey, I don't like this, for whatever reason, they're told told, oh, this on a universal level is hard to sell because I think it softens the blow. So I would just be careful of, like, is that feedback actually coming from your A rejection, or is it coming from your own personal experience? Because one of the biggest things I've had to do throughout this process, people telling me that memoir is impossible to sell as I'm selling it or as I'm writing it, did nothing but make me feel like shit. So I've really, really had to tune out a lot of noise from everyone who is not someone whose career I want to emulate. So what that means is if I'm in a Facebook group of other writers, and a ton of writers are telling me that memoir is impossible to sell, but I don't know who the fuck they are, and I've never read their book. I don't actually care what they have to say. Like, I know that's really harsh, but.

[Becca Freeman]

Like, I think that's great writing advice across the board. There's so much armchair quarterbacking.

[Marian Chambari]

Yes.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, my God.

[Amanda Eisenberg]

This happened.

[Marian Chambari]

Okay, sorry. I have a funny story that's semi related to this, I promise. But so my book sold for, like, a good amount of money, and that freaked me out. I was like, oh, no, I'm never going to earn out this advance. No one in this town is ever going to publish me again. So I called my agent. I was like, can I give the money back? Can I ask for less money? And she's like, what is wrong with you? Why would you do that? And I was like, oh, well, I googled and I found an article where a woman said her large advance harmed her career. Because publishers never wanted to work with her and but she had this like whole thing. She's like, marian, who is that author? And I was like, I don't know. I think she does like self published YA fantasy. And she's like, that's not what you're writing and you don't know who she is. So like, don't listen to her. Ultimately, the amount of money you get as an advance is private knowledge except for your specific like publisher. So whether or not I earn that out is irrelevant to anybody else who wants to publish me. So anyway, I am absolutely, I have been very much dissuaded by other writers advice. So honestly, your guys is the only writing books podcast I listen to because most of it makes me feel defeated. So I have not found that to be the case that memoirs are hard to sell. I think books are hard to sell if they're bad or if like one specific editor doesn't like it. But that doesn't mean the 20th editor won't like it or that you won't absolutely find a home for it if it's like good and thoughtful. So, you know, I'm one person who's published one book, so take that advice with a grain of salt. But my experience has not reflected that.

[Becca Freeman]

I feel like that's going to be so heartening to hear for so many people who just get told all day long how nobody wants to read memoirs.

[Marian Chambari]

I feel that way, honestly about social media too, where it's like you have to have this enormous platform, you have to be big on social media. You need this big audience if you want to sell anything. And again, not my experience either.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's very encouraging. So speaking of good and thoughtful books, what is one book that you've read recently that you would want to recommend to our listeners?

[Marian Chambari]

I have such a good one because no one's ever heard of it and I need it to like to blow up in a big way. Let's go. It's called the Enchanted Life of Adam Hope. It was published, I don't know, 10 years ago, sometime within the past 10 years, not recently, by an author named Rhonda Riley. It is so bizarre and so beautiful and I think about it every day and I recommend it to everybody I know. The premise is it's like the 1940s. A woman goes into her backyard and discovers a man buried in the mud. And that's it, that's the premise, and she digs him up. And it's kind of supernaturally, but it's also about gender and sex. And feminism and love and time and grief and ugh. It's just, it's so. I really cannot express how good this book is.

[Becca Freeman]

A much worse version of that would be something we'd review an obscure erotica. The minute that you said. The minute that you said she just finds a man buried in her backyard, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, it's.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's.

[Marian Chambari]

So if you like. Honestly, I am such a smut fan. I'm such a romance fan. I read everything that's quote unquote bad and this is like the perfect cross between all of that. Because it's fucking good. Like, it's so beautifully written and so moving. I sobbed at the end of it. But it's also feel good and beautiful.

[Becca Freeman]

And hot and say the name again.

[Marian Chambari]

The Enchanted Life of Adam Hope by Ronda Riley.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, I'm intrigued.

[Marian Chambari]

It's the only book and I'm devastated that she doesn't have another book. Like, it's just her one masterpiece and it's just out there in the world. I emailed her and I was like, this is the best thing I've ever read. And she's like, oh, thank you.

[Milo]

She's like old.

[Marian Chambari]

I love her. Like, I just love her and I love it.

[Olivia Mentor]

Amazing.

[Becca Freeman]

Queuing it up right now, I'm downloading a sample onto my Kindle so I don't forget. So. Oh, it's on Kindle Unlimited, girlies.

[Milo]

Yes.

[Marian Chambari]

It's cheap and it's always available at the library. Like, I just got it on Libby for free. It's just great. It's so good that after I read it from the library for free, I bought it on Kindle for like.

[Becca Freeman]

That's such an endorsement.

[Olivia Mentor]

That's high price. High price. Well, can you just tell our listeners where they can get your book? If there's a specific place that you want them to buy it or where they can learn more about you. Follow you, I guess. Not on social media.

[Becca Freeman]

Not on social media.

[Olivia Mentor]

You said you're not there.

[Marian Chambari]

No, I'm not. So I have a website, maranchimbari.com. no one's going to be able to spell it. Just guess. And I'll probably come up there. You can read like all the essays I've written for various places. And you can download if you sign up. There's like a little pop up and a little page that's like, get the first chapter for free. You can download the first chapter for free if you don't want to. Like, I don't know if you don't have Kindle or want to download a Kindle sample, but request it at your library. But it's at all the bookstores. It's on Amazon. It's at Powell's. I think you can get signed copies at Powell's. It's at Barnes and Noble. It's everywhere. Buy it, don't buy it.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's great. Thank you, Marianne.

[Marian Chambari]

Thank.

[Olivia Mentor]

So we are really excited to be talking to Amanda next, whose book People Are Talking comes out in. Is it April?

[Milo]

April 22nd. April 22nd, same day as Emily Henry's book. So hopefully people will go to the bookstore, pick up their new m hen also pick up People Are Talking.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, that's a smart way to find out.

[Olivia Mentor]

That's a great way to get people to remember.

[Milo]

Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

So give us the pitch for People Are Talking.

[Milo]

So people are talking about two best friends, Mel and Danny, and they were in a secret vigilante society at their college campus where they would track rapists. And they were in this big friend group. And one of the boys in their friend group gets accused of sexual assault. So, you know, it's really kind of like a look at a friend group and how a friend group experiences sexual assault and kind of those allegations and especially heightened by the fact that they're kind of these vigilantes themselves. And so because of that, they haven't spoken to each other in about 10 years, and they all reconvene at their friend's wedding. So it's a dual timeline, dual narration between Mal and Danny. And I really wanted to explore the personal and the political, but make it funny. So I've been comping it to Veronica Mars.

[Becca Freeman]

I've never seen Veronica Mars.

[Milo]

Oh, you have to. It's so good.

[Olivia Mentor]

I haven't in a really long time, but isn't it kind of like a cult classic at this point?

[Milo]

I watched it during Lockdown, and so I think I latched onto it in particular because of that. But season one is like a perfect season. Like, it could have been standalone. Unbelievable. So good deals with kind of like sexual assault and tough topics, but in a way that you have, like, the plucky heroine and a lot of humor. And I think that's how a lot of people deal with bad things in the world. As we're kind of seeing right now in this climate, people want to find humor in those things and find community. And I was really interested in, like, female rage and the feeling of being, like, so directionally right about something. But maybe you're, you know, there are other things going on that might influence how somebody else perceives it. And so I really was inspired by Veronica Mars, and I wanted that kind of content in my life, and that propelled me to work on this book.

[Olivia Mentor]

So tell us a little bit more about writing the book. Like, is this your first book? When did you start it? What has the publication process been like? Obviously, you're a few months out, but I'm sure you're in that stage where you're just, like, anxious for people to read it or if you're me, I was just, like, terrified of the stage. But just tell us a little bit about the background of it, how it came to be.

[Milo]

I feel like I came about it in a strange way. I was a journalist for 10 years, and so I'm so used to writing on deadline, writing quickly, and generally being proud of my raw writing. And as writers, you guys know the first draft is always garbage. And then it was really difficult to be like, but I'm a professional writer. My work should be immaculate when it comes out. And so I was really working on this horrible book that had a really good title. It was. And that was the best thing about this book.

[Olivia Mentor]

Great title.

[Milo]

Thank you.

[Becca Freeman]

We should bleep that out so nobody steals it.

[Milo]

Thank you. I was really working hard on this book. It was not coming together. And I showed it to an editor friend and she very nicely told me it was garbage. And I was like, great, I'm done. So I was brainstorming a bunch of other ideas. And as a journalist, you always have a big. I always have a bunch of story ideas. But it's different from writing 900 word stories than writing 90,000 word stories. So, like, the ability to kind of latch onto something. So I was working on four books because I was like, procrastination. But if you're procrastinating with another book, you're like, I'm procrastinating, but you're getting stuff done. So, like, very sneakily productive. And I was sitting on my couch, it was November 2021, and I started hearing voices in my head. And normally when this happens, I'll, like, take out my phone or my laptop and they go away, and it drives me insane. And so I let them. They actually kept talking to me. And I just started transcribing what they were saying. And I was like, oh, this friend group's fighting. What are they fighting about? One character, Sebastian, he was the first voice in my head, was like, this guy. And I just started writing. And I explained this. Like, I went to a trance and so I kind of like gained consciousness at 2am and I wrote 6,000 words.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh my gosh.

[Marian Chambari]

Whoa.

[Milo]

It's never happened again. But it was so crazy. And I was like, okay, I think there's something here. I put it aside for a couple months and then I started just working on it and sent it to people, got some feedback. Was like, how can I make this more intense? A secret society, a wedding weekend. Just trying to constantly heighten the stakes to make it bookie. Because I was writing a lot of jokes and I had to self edit a lot of my jokes out unfortunately. And I basically just kept revising it. Like there was something calling me to it. I was being surprised by it. Like the first draft process is always terrible for me because again, I'm a perfectionist. I want to be perfect. But the revision process was so fun and I got really great feedback. And so In July of 2023, I started querying agents and that was a big mistake. I should have just like let sit for six months. And I was just like, I felt it was like so pertinent. I was worried that people were going to not care about consent and like how, you know, like, are men evolving to not sexually assault women? And so I really was. I was nervous that we were evolving as a society too much. And I really wanted.

[Olivia Mentor]

We're not.

[Milo]

That's, you know, that's. I've kind of seen that a little bit.

[Olivia Mentor]

Don't worry.

[Milo]

Yeah, I was like, we're going backwards. Actually, there are Trump jokes in the book. So I'm curious if I'm going to get on the band book list somewhere. But I stand by it. I stand by my jokes. And so I queried and I didn't realize how slow publishing is. Like people say it's slow. And I was unprepared for how slow within a week of querying. So like I wrote my cover letter, which is now the back copy of my book actually. So I was like really proud of my query letter. And within a week of sending it out to 12 agents, six of them got back to me with partial or full requests. So I was like walking around being like, I'm going to be a published author. Like it's going to be so easy, so fun. And then save for like a couple of rejections. I heard Radio Silence and so I was like, did they pass? Are they still reading? You just don't know. And I teach at NYU. I teach in intro journalism. And teaching 19 year olds is great to be humbled by. We have a lot of Interesting conversations about consent and what it's like being a 19 year old in college right now. And so I love talking to them about this stuff. And one of my students, because we were talking about how writing is hard regardless of what medium you write in, whether it's journalism or creative writing. I mentioned I was trying to publish a novel. And one of my students was like, oh, I'm interning at this publishing house. It's a small press down on Bleecker street in Manhattan. And she was like, I'm gonna go through the slush pile, like in a couple of weeks. Do you want to send in your manuscript? And I was like, sure, whatever. Like no skin off my back. And a month later, I had an offer for publication. So it was. It's such a different route. And like, again, like, I worked at Politico for four years. I've always worked in like traditional media. I assume my publishing journey would be traditional and it hasn't been.

[Becca Freeman]

So wait, did you do it without an agent?

[Milo]

Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

Interesting.

[Milo]

Yeah. So I panicked when I got an offer because it's like, you know, you want to make sure that like, the contract is real and all these concerns. And so I reached out to a bunch of agents and my friend who's the editor, I was like, what would you recommend I do? My advance was a small enough amount that like, an agent isn't going to make significant money off of it. And so I reached out to a bunch of the agents who still had my full manuscript. And one agent gave me like amazing detailed feedback and was like, suspense is really hard to sell in the marketplace. And I was like, thank you for telling me my book is suspense, because I just have been calling it fiction. And so she gave me a bunch of like, really helpful feedback. So when I got matched with my editor, I showed her the agent feedback and I was like, hey, this really resonates with me. Are we good to kind of be on the same page? And my editor, Ashlyn Petro, is a saint. I love her. The reason why I went with Three Rooms Press is because of her. Like, I'm so happy. I feel like my book found its right editor, even though I went like a non traditional route. And so, yeah, we worked for like a couple of months on edits. Most of it was done in three weeks. I went home to New Jersey and locked myself at my parents house and cranked out a major revision in three weeks and cried a lot. But I'm really proud of it. And yeah, and so we are. We're publishing for spring. So it's been a shortened timeline compared to traditional publishing, which often takes, I believe, like, two years. Right. From kind of like getting the agent or the deal to seeing your book on the bookshelf.

[Becca Freeman]

I think it depends for everyone, but I mean, that's not unheard of. Yeah.

[Milo]

So this was definitely faster than I was anticipating. But again, like journalism brain, I'm like, I love a deadline. So that's been my path to publishing. And I'm so excited for people to read my book. That's the biggest joy for me right now. And so I'm starting to send it out early copies to readers. And I've been telling people, I'm like, give it one star if you think it's one star. I feel blessed that people are engaging with it and I would love if people had negative opinions about it because I feel like that invokes strong opinions. I want it to be a conversation book.

[Olivia Mentor]

That's probably a healthy perspective to have. Actually, it helped going into it. Just being like, even a one star is helpful in some way.

[Milo]

I did just finish One Star Romance. Great recommendation. I listened to the episode last night.

[Olivia Mentor]

Great book.

[Becca Freeman]

Which ironically, was a five star book for me.

[Milo]

It was also a five star book for me. I really loved it. But I was laughing a lot about the one star ness with a novel coming out, I'm like, it's bound to happen.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's interesting talking to debut authors because truly, I think we all forget how different everyone's path is. And we all have our own struggles, we all have our own individual failures, we all have our own whatever. And so I'm wondering if you have any advice for aspiring writers or something you wish you would have known before your debut experience.

[Milo]

Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me is limiting my perfectionist tendencies. I line edited books and like entire chapters, entire plot lines that don't exist in my book anymore. Like the ability to just say, okay, like I'm adding a TK in here, meaning, like, to come. I'll figure it out. Really blowing through a first draft. I deeply underestimated the importance of doing that because I can't tell you how much time I spent editing stuff that does not exist or is in a graveyard document in my Google Docs. I'm at 95,000 words in my second novel. And now then doing the second draft, I'm just kind of speed writing. I'm like, I will figure it out. I will figure out how to get from point A to point B. And so that's my biggest Advice is to really try to get a full, fleshed out, bad draft down. Because the revision process is so much easier. To be like, okay, the scene's kind of lame. How can I fix this scene? Instead of being like, I only wrote 5,000 words and I have to write 90,000 more. And the paralysis of that. So that's always my recommendation, is just write something down. I use word counts to really help me. When I first started my writing process, I would try to hit a thousand words a day. And now that I have a routine, it's usually 1500-2500 that I bang out. And I do that five days a week. But then I go through jags of like, I haven't touched my manuscript, or, you know, I just came off a two week sprint and I have, I think like 30,000 words of draft two done. And so I think like, the practice of writing is the most important thing. Rather than focusing on whether or not it's good, you will revise it to be better. Like, and that's always my biggest advice.

[Becca Freeman]

So we already talked about Five Star Romance being something you recently enjoyed. But is there another book that you read recently that you would recommend to our listeners?

[Milo]

Yes, I think if you liked One Star Romance, I think you will love Between Friends and Lovers.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, I haven't heard of this.

[Milo]

Shirlene Obuo. Obi. I'm so sorry, Shirlene, if I pronounced your name wrong. I probably did. I went to you and Me, it's a bookstore down in Chinatown in Manhattan. And I said, I need a swoony romance. And the woman working there slapped this book my hand. The COVID is beautiful. She has a paperback, I think that's coming out, and a limited edition Chicago Skyscraper on the pages of the book. It is so beautiful. I believe this is her second book. Highly recommend, highly recommend. Reading Black Women, Supporting Black Women, Supporting Black Authors. I love this book. Cannot speak highly enough of it. And it's called Between Friends and Lovers.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, so before we let you go, can you remind us once again the name of your book so everyone can pre order it? And also where can people find you on the Internet?

[Milo]

Great. So I would love if you pre order. People are talking. It comes out April 22, hopefully wherever books are sold. And you can easily find me on the Internet. I'm Manda Eisenberg, author. I'm on every social media platform from my time as a journalist. So, like, very easily googleable. Yeah. So I would love to meet everyone. So thank you so much, guys for having me. This has been great.

[Olivia Mentor]

This episode is sponsored by this Is Small Business behind the Buy, which is the official companion podcast to Prime Video's new show called Buy it now, where entrepreneurs compete to win $20,000. If you are someone who is interested in how ordinary people turn their big ideas into a business, or if you want to learn from real entrepreneurs and get actionable advice on how they succeeded, this is definitely for you.

[Becca Freeman]

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[Olivia Mentor]

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[Becca Freeman]

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[Olivia Mentor]

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[Olivia Mentor]

Well, we are so excited to have Lauren with us who is a listener but also a debut author. So welcome Lauren. We're excited to hear about your book Casket Case, which I mentioned on the podcast I think last week. I don't know, time is really meaningless right now, but happy to have you here.

[Amanda Eisenberg]

Yeah, I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me.

[Becca Freeman]

So Olivia gave us the pitch for the book when she read it, but for anyone who missed that, we would love to hear it straight from you. So tell us a little bit about your book.

[Amanda Eisenberg]

I would love to. So Casket Case is a small town romance about a woman named Nora who moves back to her hometown of Rabbit Town, Alabama after her parents die to run her family's casket store. And she meets a man named Garrett who seems perfect. And then she finds out he is a logistics coordinator for Death. Capital D. Death, yes, Capital D Corporation Death.

[Olivia Mentor]

So this is a very unique concept, obviously, and I am really curious to know about your writing journey. Like, how did you decide you wanted to write this and what was your publishing journey like?

[Amanda Eisenberg]

I was querying a different book, actually when I got the idea for this book and that didn't end up finding an agent. But as I was going through that process, I was also making some questionable dating choices. And the idea for this book came out of a not very good joke where one of my friends asked if I was seeing someone that weekend and I said, the angel of Death, I hope. And obviously a terrible joke, but one I made. And then I was like, wait, is that something? That could be something. And so then, you know, a couple years went by, honestly, of me trying to figure out how I could make that work with my own writing style. Because I don't really write fantasy. Obviously the first image in my head was sort of a grim reaper type thing. But then I'm also a fan of, you know, all those shows from years ago, you know, the Office, Parks and Rec, the work, workplace comedies. And I kind of wanted to bring a drier, I don't know, energy to it, I guess, because that's kind of my personality is wanting to kind of laugh at things and poke at things that maybe we haven't been paying attention to. So I think that's where it all started. And then I spent, I don't know, four or five years writing it and sent out a ton of query letters. And my agent, I have now happened to be the last query letter I was going to send. I had decided I'm going to move on.

[Olivia Mentor]

Wow.

[Amanda Eisenberg]

Yeah. I was like, I'm going to move on to the next book because this, I mean, the process of querying is terrible. And again, I had already done it once and it failed. So I'm like, well, I'll just start another book and do it again, I guess. And I ended up signing with my agent. So that was really exciting.

[Olivia Mentor]

Was there ever a moment like after you queried your first book and it didn't go obviously the way you wanted, that you were like, I think I'm done. Was there ever a low point where you like, maybe this isn't for me, or were you just always like, this is what I want to do, I'm going to keep going no matter what?

[Amanda Eisenberg]

There were definitely low points for sure. And I will say having a full time job was helpful because I wasn't trying to make money. I wanted to hold a book in my hand. That was the whole goal. So in those low moments I would just kind of remind myself of that, of. I like writing and I'm writing these stories for myself because it's entertaining to me and you know, if it becomes a book, that's great and if not, you know, I'll have another story come into my head. That's how my brain works. And then, you know, I can just work on that one. I've said this to a lot of people and it probably sounds like, oh, well, you're published, of course you can say that. But the best thing that could have happened to me was the first novel failing because the worst thing that could happen happened. So after that it was kind of like, you know, if I don't find an agent with this book, then I will survive because I survived the first one and I'll just move on to the next one.

[Olivia Mentor]

Would you ever go back to that first book or do you think it's kind of dead?

[Amanda Eisenberg]

I have made my peace with it. I think it was a very complicated book to be my first novel I've ever written. I really just went too hard, I think. So I'm probably fine just letting it sit in a drawer, as they say.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm curious to hear how the process of debuting has been and if it. I know you said you just wanted to hold a book in your hands. Has it lived up to your expectations? Have there been any surprises? What has that felt like for you?

[Amanda Eisenberg]

I'm glad I'm talking to the two of you because you two came before me with your books. So I think the week I went on Submission Becca was when the Christmas Orphans Club was coming out. I got it in the mail that week. So I feel like I've been listening to both of you talk about what your experiences were and kind of filing that in my brain for when it was my turn. So that was really helpful. I was very surprised at how, you know, it's almost like nothing happens. I've written this book. All these other people are working on it, obviously, and then, you know, when the actual launch day happens, nothing really happens. Like, it's just out in the world. People have it now. But I think one of viewers said something about, you know, it's not like people are reading it that day. You kind of have to wait to hear anything. So I think that was surprising to me of I had really hyped up this launch day thing, and really the work was before then, and the excitement has kind of continued on even past launch day. I did take maybe three years off of social media before all of this. So now rejoining that world has.

[Olivia Mentor]

How has that been?

[Amanda Eisenberg]

I regret it every day. No, it's really. It's been nice to meet other authors. Like, I think a lot of us have kind of connected over our books coming out at the same time because, you know, people tag you in things together and, you know, other authors at my publisher have been really nice. So it's been good to connect in that way with everybody and also to see, you know, it's kind of the. The comparison thing between authors is obviously a thing that we all have to deal with. Seeing somebody else who comes out at the same time as you doing something cool, and you're like, oh, I wish I could have done that. Or, you know, any. I mean, that's true in any realm of life, I guess, but, like, relearning how to navigate that has been interesting. But also just being excited for other people has helped me kind of combat that issue too.

[Olivia Mentor]

I mean, that's a really good piece of advice, actually. I think for any person in any career. It's just like, when you try to put your feelings or your energy into excitement for others, it does help. Is there any other piece of advice you would give to aspiring writers who are maybe queering or maybe they had a book die at some point in the process and they want to keep going. What would you say to them?

[Amanda Eisenberg]

Well, something I wish I could go back and tell myself would be to trust yourself. Because I think I'm a person who reads constantly and I know what is good and what is not. And, you know, whether your book is ready to go out or if there are parts of it that you could keep editing or parts of it you can keep working on. But I think you get to a point, where is your book as good as all these other books that you're reading and that you like, you know, that are your specific genre? And if it is, then, you know, just trust yourself in that to go forward instead of. Because I think I would get really afraid of it. And maybe I could have done this faster if I had not been as hesitant about, you know, I'm not sure. It seemed like a scary process to put your work in front of other people. So I think I wish I had been like, oh, casket case is a good story. Like, let's go and let's do this instead of taking many years to do it.

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, I think, to give yourself credit, I find it really, really hard when you read the same thing over and over and over again, that I at least start to gloss over what is good about it and can only focus on the sticky parts that somebody else might notice that get. It's so funny to me with my book that there are certain things that I was like, this is so glaringly wrong. Small things and that have never come up. Nobody has written me a note about. And so, you know, when you read something 20, 30, 50 times, like, you just get lost in the sauce a little.

[Amanda Eisenberg]

That's true. That is very true.

[Becca Freeman]

So last question for you. Can you recommend us a book, book other than yours, which is the best book that you've recently read?

[Amanda Eisenberg]

Okay. This is going to be a little outside of my normal wheelhouse, but I think I saw it recommended in the New York Times, and their review of it was kind of like, just hear me out on this. It is a nonfiction book called Frostbite, about the history of refrigeration.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, I was going to say, this sounds like Olivia's. What was the Netflix movie that you're so excited about?

[Olivia Mentor]

Hot Frosty.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Where she falls in love with the ice sculpture. Honestly, I feel like these two pieces of media could sort of exist within the same. The same body of work. But anyway, go on. I'm really interested. Your pitch of the history of refrigeration.

[Amanda Eisenberg]

I have to say, it is sort of alarming how little we know about where our food comes from and, you know, where your next loaf of bread is coming from. And that book sort of goes through not only the history of how it was developed and how it obviously started with Ice and, like, loading trains with ice in order to move food across the country. Because you had the problem of all the people were in one place, but all the land where, you know, you could have animals, you could grow vegetables and stuff was elsewhere. How do we make that go together? And it was really interesting to read that. But mostly what I got out of it is, is my refrigerator evil or not? I don't know. Oh, I came down like 50. 50 on my refrigerator. I know. Like, we were storing weird food in there. Why are we storing vegetables in there? They don't go in the refrigerator. But I know. I'm telling you, the whole time I was reading it, I was just texting people. Like, you have no idea.

[Olivia Mentor]

Like, bonus question. Do you guys keep apples in the refrigerator?

[Becca Freeman]

I do.

[Amanda Eisenberg]

Oh, I don't, but that's part of it.

[Olivia Mentor]

Interesting.

[Amanda Eisenberg]

I know. So if you're into nonfiction or refrigerators, either one. Or you're just like. I actually started reading it right after the election. I was like, I need to just. I need a quick gear shift here. So I was like, I'll try this book and it'll do. It took my mind off of it.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, thank you so much for coming on, for talking about your book and your publishing process and refrigerators and all of it. Can you tell people where they can find you and they can order your book now, right?

[Amanda Eisenberg]

Yes. Casket case is available pretty much wherever you get your books. There are also links on my website, which is laurenbevans.com and I am on Instagram aurenevanswrites, and you can find me in the Geneva group.

[Marian Chambari]

Yes.

[Becca Freeman]

Active Geneva group participant.

[Amanda Eisenberg]

Thank you so much for having me. This has been really fun.

[Olivia Mentor]

Thank you.

[Becca Freeman]

For our next guest, we have Courtney Price, who is the author of welcome Home, Caroline Klein, which came out earlier this year. Welcome.

[Courtney Price]

Thank you guys so much for having me. I'm such a longtime fan of the show, so big dream come true to chat with you guys. Thanks for having me.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, we're excited to talk to you about your publishing journey, but before we get to that, give us the quick pitch for your book.

[Courtney Price]

Okay, so welcome Home Caroline Klein is about a woman who is going through her Saturn return. So it's when you're like, 29 and your life falls apart. She lives in New York City. Her life is quickly falling apart. She loses her job, her apartment, and her boyfriend in quick succession. And she gets a call from her ailing father that he wants her to return to her Jersey Shore hometown she assumes as some kind of caretaker. Role. But instead, he actually needs her as a replacement on the all men's softball team, where he is a local star and on the verge of a championship, which feels very mortifying to her, this whole prospect of coming home and doing this. But she's really out of options, so she moves back and she has to deal with her father's illness and this hostile team of all men and running into, you know, former friends turned rivals. And when a night goes wrong, it lands her in the path of her first love, which makes her just question everything. So it's really about, you know, trying to figure out if you're willing to let go of what you thought your life might look like in favor of all it has the possibility to become.

[Becca Freeman]

And I'm curious, what was the inspiration behind this book? This sounds very specific. Do you play softball? Like, is there any of you in this? Like, where did this come from?

[Courtney Price]

There is. There is. It's definitely a work of true fiction, but there is so much drawn from my experiences, my real life. I was going through my Saturn return when I came up with the idea for this book. My entire life was changing in unexpected ways. I'd lived in New York City for a decade, and I fell in love. And I was planning a move to Asbury Park, New Jersey, which is where I currently live. And I was really grappling with the big feelings I had around leaving New York City, because I really tethered my identity to being a New Yorker and was just like, I'm gonna live here forever. I'm gonna be like Joan Didion. Like, maybe I'll have a foray out west. But, like, Joan Didion died on 71st Street. She was a New Yorker. So I was really grappling with that. And I got the idea for this novel. I come from a big baseball family. I definitely played softball growing up. All my siblings play softball. My dad plays baseball, and my dad's played in the local league in our Jersey shore town for the last 30 years. So I got the idea. I went to go see him play in one of his games. It was actually on my 30th birthday, and he was sidelined with an injury. And so my brothers were playing on the field without him. And I was sort of joking with him, a joke that I'd brought up many times over the years, because my sister and I are very consummate baseball players, but we could never come of age and join the league with him like my brothers had. I was like, I'm gonna go full mulan. You're hurt. I'm putting my hair under a ball cap, and I'm playing third base now. And that joking threat turned into the seed of a novel. And I moved from Brooklyn to Asbury park about a month later, and I had a long commute every day. And I just sort of started plucking away at this novel as a means of coping with all those big changes.

[Olivia Mentor]

Is this the first book you've ever written? Like, how long did it take you to write it? Tell us a little bit about what the process to publication was like once you had this idea, which I really love, by the way, how personal it is.

[Courtney Price]

Thank you. Okay, so it is the first novel I have ever written, but it is not the first book I've ever written. Interesting. Yeah, it's been a long road. In my 20s, I wrote a collection of essays that I took out on submission with a former literary agent of mine. We took it out on Submission as a memoir, and it did not sell. So that was when I was about, like, 26 or 27, and my first love is nonfiction. I mean, when we took that out on submission, it was like, peak, sort of like Hanno Horvath personal essay era. And I just always figured that my career as a writer would be in nonfiction. That's really what my passion was and where I cut my teeth. And then I came up with the idea for this novel, and I felt really committed to it. I was actually in the process of trying to write another nonfiction book at the time, and I sort of kept cheating on that document with this concept. And I have a close friend. Her name is Rachel Harrison. She is also a novelist. She writes horror novels. I was texting her about it, and I was like, I don't know. I keep cheating on my document with this fiction document. I don't know what to do about it. And I pitched her the concept, and she said, that's not your mistress. Marry the bitch. And I just loved that she said that. And it really made me sort of double down and commit to writing this novel. And a couple of months later, we were all in lockdown. So it seemed like a good time to really work on something new. From inception of the idea to first draft was exactly one year. And I was able to measure that because I got the idea on my 30th birthday. And so I was like, okay, I want to finish it by my 31st birthday. And that is when I sort of like, you know, hit send to the staples printer and everything. And I will credit. I know that both of you are familiar with Jami Attenberg's work. I'd been a fan of hers for a long time, and she does the 1000 Words of Summer challenge every summer, which is for two weeks you commit to writing a thousand words a day. And you know, again, I was really trying to work through this. When we were in early COVID lockdown, I was very anxious. I was having a hard time establishing a writing routine, and I committed to doing her challenge that summer. And that really helped get me in the groove every day. And when the two weeks were over, I kept coming back to it. And A Thousand Words a Day at a Time finished this in time for my 31st birthday that year. So I give Jamie a lot of credit. I feel like I shout her out in every conversation I have and she's in the acknowledgments. My book, she doesn't know me from Moses and I'm just like, God bless Jami Attenberg. Like, thank God she did that challenge.

[Olivia Mentor]

I love her substack too. I just became a paid subscriber the other day and I'm enjoying all the content so much.

[Courtney Price]

So good. I'm such a fan of her substack too.

[Becca Freeman]

So I feel like it's very common. You said you used your birthday as a milestone. I also feel like when I wrote my first book, I tried to do it by the end of the year. So I think we probably have a lot of people who are listening, who are writers, who are maybe in the throes of trying to finish a draft of something before the end of the year. What advice would you give to any aspiring writers or even to your past self?

[Courtney Price]

Oh, okay. So I think that my number one is that confidence is built when you keep a promise that you make to yourself. So it's really, really hard to keep coming back to the page every day. I. I'm reminded of this as I'm working on book two, and it is not easygoing. When you're feeling like, I hate what's in front of me, like, this isn't any good, you're starting to doubt yourself. It's really that consistency that's going to help you build your confidence. And the fact that you're keeping this promise to yourself even when it's not easy is really going to help you. My second piece of advice is kind of like two pronged, two sided, because I really believe in like, eyes on your own paper. Right. Like, it's really easy to get caught up in what everyone else is doing, especially if you're a Writer and like you're, you know, following other writers on social media and you're like, everybody's doing great except for me. Everybody's finishing their work except me. Eyes on your own paper. Like it's very tempting to get caught up in what other folks are doing, but don't get distracted and everyone else's success does not detract from your own. Hype up your friends successes. Like we're all part of the same ecosystem and then sort of like the other side of that coin is, is really work on building your community. I always say my writer friends are my favorite friends because we just connect on a level that no one else in my life can connect on. I have great friends from all realms. My husband knows what publishers marketplaces now and I love that and I appreciate that about him. But nobody really gets it like your writer friends. Nobody gets it. Your core group of writers that you go to drink with and spill the literary tea with. So definitely sort of balance that. Eyes on your own paper, but really work on building your community because they're the ones who are going to help this feel like a team sport and not a solo act.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I totally know what you mean. I feel like as somebody who's extroverted and has never worked in such a solo capacity before, writing a book is the longest project I've ever worked on. And not having coworkers is so isolating. So finding other people who are doing the same thing, like having Olivia, who ever since she joined the podcast has also been. We've been able to talk about what's going on in our writing lives before every episode before we get on the air has been so life saving. Book saving.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's also just a weird industry and I feel like it's really hard to communicate about it with. Like, I often talk about it with Jake and he's like, I don't understand why they haven't made this more. More transparent and fast. And I'm like, listen, I don't know. But it's just the way it is. So it really helps that you have people that get it. I totally agree with you.

[Courtney Price]

It's the slowest, most opaque industry and when you talk to like, it's easy to forget that folks outside of it don't know it to that degree again. I'd been trying to sell a book since I was in my mid-20s and it took a long time to not only write this novel, but then the process of querying and getting an agent and going out on submission and then when you Sell the book. All of your friends and family are so excited for you and they're like, what do you mean it's going to be two years before it comes out? You get so caught up in kind of like learning the ropes of the business and learning to navigate the industry because it is really unusual and you need to kind of learn the lay of the land to make sense of it. You forget that people outside of it have no idea what's going on. Which is why you need, I mean, I've been fortunate enough to connect with so many other debut writers, authors who are on their second book now. It's really been a huge blessing in this process to get to connect. And I think that obviously that's part of like living in the tri state area gives the three of us that, that sort of advantage. But I'd argue that you know how the Internet works now, how social media works now. It's that way for everyone. Like, there's no shortage of community that can be built no matter where you are.

[Olivia Mentor]

So one last fun question. What is the best book you've read recently that you want to recommend to our listeners?

[Courtney Price]

Okay, so I want to recommend the book Never Been Better by Leanne Toshka Simpson. She is also a spring debut like me. And this book was. I remember reading about it when the deal was announced and I was so excited about it. It's about three best friends who met in the psych ward and two of them are getting married and it's like a tropical destination wedding and the third one is going to the wedding and she's is sort of in love with the groom and can't quite tell if she's about to just like blow up the whole wedding or if she's about to be their best friend and help them along. And it was comped to My Best Friend's Wedding and Silver Linings Playbook, which are two entities that I love. And I did comp but didn't officially comp my book to Silver Linings Playbook. It has sort of a similar vibe because there's, there's a sports story, a family story and a love story in it, which is big Silver Linings Playbook vibes. And I just so appreciate that Leanne's book is also Silver Linings Playbook Vibes in a totally different way. I loved her book so much. Like, it was so deep and so funny and so unexpected and just had a lot of different threads. There's like a sibling story going on there as well. It was just a joy to Read. And I've been lucky enough to connect with Leanne online via DM to gush to her about how much I love her book. And yeah, I just. I highly recommend. It's one of my favorites this year for sure.

[Becca Freeman]

Courtney, before we let you go and you have been wonderful, can you remind the listeners the name of your book and if there's somewhere in particular you would like them to get it and where they can find you on the Internet?

[Courtney Price]

Yes, absolutely. So the name of my debut is welcome home Caroline Klein. I would be so honored if you guys would consider picking it up. I, again, I'm like a true blue bad on paper fan and listener. My husband got me, like, several tiny tongs for Christmas last year and was like, I don't.

[Amanda Eisenberg]

Those are.

[Courtney Price]

That's my, like, bad on paper creds. He's like, I don't know. You look at these, you don't need to say anything. He's like, you look at these in every store we go to. So I, like, just got you a Christmas stocking full of tiny tongs. And, like, the girlies know and they.

[Becca Freeman]

Have changed your life. I hope they're for the better.

[Courtney Price]

They're completely life changing. They are the star of every lunch hour. I'm on Instagram as Coco Golightly, and I would love to connect with you guys there and chat about books and anything else.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, let's talk about some m matter. What are you obsessed with right now?

[Becca Freeman]

I am obsessed with Macintosh apples.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes.

[Becca Freeman]

I just can't get enough of Macintosh apples. And if you're wondering if this is like, a brand or like a candle, like. No, the actual apples. I am buying them in bulk. I am a horse. I am eating so many apples.

[Olivia Mentor]

What are we averaging on a day?

[Becca Freeman]

One a day. One a day.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. Okay, that's good.

[Becca Freeman]

If that's an apple a day keeps the doctor away.

[Olivia Mentor]

I thought you were gonna be like, I'm eating six apples a day.

[Becca Freeman]

No, no.

[Olivia Mentor]

The fiber is just running through my body. That's good. I'm also in an apple a day mode right now. I don't know what variety of apple I'm eating, though.

[Becca Freeman]

Interesting.

[Olivia Mentor]

Is that bad?

[Becca Freeman]

No, it's not bad. I just, like, pick a team.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, I really like a Gala and a Fuji, but it's neither of those. It's from the apple place I brought you to.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, they have so many varieties. I've never seen so many varieties of apples than at this store near Olivia.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, I live in apple country, I guess, but. Well, I Like that. It's delicious. Apples are great.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I'm really in my apple phase. You're, like, laughing, and it's like. It is funny, but earnestly. When I sat down today to write in this outline, I was like, what am I obsessed with? And I'm like, apples.

[Olivia Mentor]

I started laughing because I realized that I'm following you, and my obsession is puzzles. So we literally are like. Like, we have brought you apples. Just the fruit and puzzles.

[Becca Freeman]

Like, we are the most generic obsessions.

[Olivia Mentor]

We are hanging on by a thread, trying to comfort ourselves with simple things.

[Becca Freeman]

Tell me about puzzles.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm into puzzling. Jake and I, last weekend, we just took a whole weekend to do a puzzle. We'd, like, get back to it each night while we were eating dinner or whatever. And I just. My brain disappeared for a bit. All I cared about was that puzzle and just making the edges just show.

[Becca Freeman]

Nothing takes time quite like a puzzle.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. And the one I just started, I sent you a photo of it. It's a pieceworks puzzle, which I know.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, it's gonna be so hard.

[Marian Chambari]

It's gonna be so good.

[Olivia Mentor]

It is. I started it last night, and I honestly was like, what have I done? It is so difficult, I can't even describe it to you.

[Becca Freeman]

Should I get on a train after this and just come up for the evening to puzz?

[Olivia Mentor]

I'll just. I'll bring a bushel of apples.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, my God, don't tell me.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'll probably finish it in, like, a year.

[Becca Freeman]

I tried to get a friend to come over and do a puzzle with me over the weekend and was, like, flatly rejected. I mean, I wasn't rejected on hanging out, but they were like, no, I don't want to come to your house and do a puzzle. And I was like, you haven't been awakened yet.

[Olivia Mentor]

They're lost.

[Becca Freeman]

Their loss, because I told you I retired from solo puzzling.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, really? Wait, why? Was it because you got too obsessed, or did I make that up?

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, it was because the last puzzle I was doing, it was 1500 pieces. I was so miserable. It was so hard, and yet I could not do anything until I finished it. And so I was just, like, compulsively, unhappily doing this puzzle.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, that sounds like bad vibes. Well, what have you read recently, or what are you reading?

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, my gosh. I am obsessed with this book. In addition to apples, I read this book called Deep Cuts by Holly Brickley, which comes out in February. And this is a romance. It's on the more literary side. Of romance, I would say. And it takes place in the early 2000s in the indie sleaze music scene. So it's about these two people who meet at Berklee in, I think, the year 2000. And he is an aspiring musician, frontman of a band, and Percy, the female main character, really loves music, but has no musical talent of her own. And they kind of get into this partnership where she gives him critical feedback and helps him to make his music better. And the story's told over the course of maybe like, five or six years, 10 years, a bunch of times. So they kind of come in and out of each other's lives, and you get to see kind of like, them come apart and come together. And it was so good, and it was so nostalgic. I was slightly younger than the character, so they're in college in 2000, and I didn't start college till 2004, but I felt very taken back by all of this.

[Olivia Mentor]

Were there a lot of American Apparel references? That's what I think of when I think of indie sleaze. Like those skirts that everyone had, you.

[Becca Freeman]

Know, not directly, but I think we can just assume that that's what they're wearing. There were so many musical references to, like, indie bands that have, like, since disappeared. It was so nostalgic. I loved this.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, I hope there's, like, a playlist that goes with the book.

[Becca Freeman]

There is.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's on the COVID Oh, amazing. That sounds great.

[Becca Freeman]

What about you? What have you read?

[Olivia Mentor]

So I finished two books. The first one was Babel by RF Kuang, which I'm not really sure why. I just got it in my head. I wanted to read this. I picked it up kind of impulsively and started reading it. Loved it.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay. I think this might be on my list for this month because I'm trying to read in my backlist fall project. And this is part of the list that I set for myself. But I kind of can't handle the real world, so I feel like going to a fantasy world might be the move.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, okay. So the thing I liked about this book is that it's set in, like, I think, 1800s Oxford. And it is fantasy. Like, there are magical elements. It's a different world, but it feels very much like it could just be the normal 1800s in Oxford.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

So essentially, it's about a boy who is born in China and then is brought by this sort of benefactor to England and becomes a translator. And it's a very complex book. So I'm trying to talk about it. In a way that makes sense. It's also 500 pages. So it's 500 plus, maybe.

[Courtney Price]

Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

But it is a lot. And I think you mentioned this about colonialism, like, a lot. So it is not slow. But I will say that I thought it was about 100 pages too long for me.

[Becca Freeman]

Noted.

[Olivia Mentor]

Which is the only reason why I am categorizing it as, like, loved it and not like, a favorite. I have liked it. Loved it. Favorite. This is probably, like, if we call it fantasy. It's like my favorite fantasy book I've ever read.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

But it is dark. It is very dark. And it is heavily echoing a lot of themes, I guess, that we still deal with today in terms of just, like, racism and all of that. So I don't know if it will be the most escapist option for you, but I really did love it. And it's incredibly crafted. Like, wow. Okay.

[Becca Freeman]

I've taken this under advisement.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. I need you to have all of the information.

[Becca Freeman]

I appreciate that. Honestly, I feel like everyone is at super deep risk of going into a reading slump right now. So I feel like having all of that information is really important.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, it's heavy, for sure. It's very heavy. And then the other book I finished was We Used to Live Here by Marcus Kleiver. That seems wrong, but Marcus. And this is a story, a thriller slash borderline horror about a couple who buys an old house and they move in. They're gonna flip it. And one day a family comes to the door and they say, we used to live here. Can I show my kids the house? Basically. And all kinds of creepy things happen. I could not put this book down. I was flying through it. It is all plot. If you're looking for anything literary, just don't. This is not that it's well written, it's just not. If you're looking for beautiful language, don't look here. And I did not really understand what happened at the end, but. But I read this right around the election. And having a book where I could just not be in my own world at all and I could be scared of other things was the biggest gift. And I enjoyed that feeling of being scared and being on the edge of my seat so much. So if you're looking for that, I can't tell you that you will understand what happens at the end, but maybe you will. Maybe it's a me problem.

[Becca Freeman]

I feel like you must be talking to you, the listener, not me, Becca Freeman, because you've used the word scared too many times. I know that this is not for you.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's not for you.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay. But if none of those appeal to you, I think that our November book club pick is going to be a balm to the soul. B A L M not B O M B We're reading Ina Garten's memoir, Be Ready when the Luck Happens. I personally am going to do the audiobook version of this. People in the Geneva group have told me that it is nine hours and change, which means that it is free with your Spotify monthly audiobook allotment that comes with your Spotify account. So I can't wait. I've heard she's a delightful narrator, and I just. I know she has a hard childhood, which is covered in this, but I just, I want the cozy Ina Garten it's all gonna be okay vibe.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. A lot of people have said they've enjoyed listening to this, especially during this kind of stressful time. So I'm looking forward to it.

[Becca Freeman]

If you would like more of us, you can join the Geneva group that we've mentioned 17 times in this episode. You can join our Facebook group. You can follow us on Instagram. Adonpaper podcast. I'm on Instagram ecamfreeman and my newsletter.

[Olivia Mentor]

Is at beccafreeman.substack.com I'm on Instagram oliviamentor and on [e-mail] I think I'm there. I don't know. You'll find me. Bye.

[Becca Freeman]

See you next week.

[Olivia Mentor]

Bye.