May 2025 Three Things

Summary

Bad On Paper Podcast Episode Summary: May 2025 Three Things

Release Date: May 7, 2025
Hosts: Becca Freeman & Olivia Muenter

In the May 2025 Three Things episode of Bad On Paper, hosts Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter delve into their weekly highlights and challenges, explore emerging trends in literature, discuss captivating book covers, examine a recent controversy in the literary community, and share personal routines and favorite reads. This comprehensive episode offers listeners a blend of personal insights, cultural commentary, and engaging book discussions.

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1. Highs and Lows

Becca Freeman’s High:
Becca shares her enriching week spent in Maine, highlighting a productive period where she focused on her book. "I was working on my book and it was really nice to be away from your environment and kind of all of the procrastination I can invent in my own house," she explains ([04:30]). This change of scenery allowed her to overcome writer’s block, particularly in rewriting a challenging chapter, fostering a renewed passion for her project.

Becca Freeman’s Low:
Contrasting her high, Becca recounts a frustrating ordeal with package pickups. She narrates, "I just, like, made myself a low this morning," referring to the stress of retrieving misdelivered packages ([08:28]). The experience was exacerbated by impending deadlines and poor customer service, leading her to reflect on the inefficiencies of delivery services.

Olivia Muenter’s High:
Olivia describes a joyful weekend hosting a party to celebrate the return of warm weather. "We had about 20 or 25 people. It's the most people we've had in our house. And it was just so, so much fun," she shares ([01:19]). The event included delightful moments like a midnight dance party and engaging conversations that extended into the early hours, leaving her feeling grateful and energized.

Olivia Muenter’s Low:
Following the party, Olivia experiences exhaustion. "I just felt. I don't like feeling this way on a Monday," she admits ([10:55]). The aftermath of hosting, including extensive clean-up and organizing, left her drained despite the enjoyable event.

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2. Spin-Off Books: A Growing Trend

Becca introduces a notable trend in May’s book releases: spin-off novels centered around secondary characters from existing stories. She notes, "There's kind of these books that are coming out that weren't necessarily planned series, you know, like surprise spinoffs" ([14:27]). Examples include:

• "One Golden Summer" by Carly Fortune: Focuses on Charlie, the brother from Every Summer After.
• "Audrey and Bash Are Just Friends" by Tia Williams: Centers on Audrey, the daughter from Seven Days in June.
• "Totally and Completely Fine" by Alyssa Sussman: Features the sister from Funny You Should Ask.

The hosts discuss their own desired spin-offs, expressing enthusiasm for expanding beloved literary universes. Becca wishes for a continuation of Wild Dark Shore, focusing on Fen’s return to a regular high school life ([16:41]), while Olivia adds interest in exploring the backstories of key characters like the mother in the same series ([19:42]).

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3. Spotlight on Book Covers

The duo transitions to discussing standout book covers of the year, emphasizing their impact on readers’ choices.

Favorites:

• "The Colony" by Annika Norlin: Olivia appreciates the simplicity and striking imagery, "It is so simple. But like for some reason I find it so striking" ([22:28]).
• "Road to Tender Hearts" by Annie Hartnett: Known for its unique illustration style that captivates Olivia's attention ([23:17]).
• "Immortal" by Sue Lynn Tan: Celebrated for its vibrant colors and magical design, making it visually stunning ([23:17]).

Least Favored:

• Olivia expresses disdain for "arts and craftsy" covers, which she describes as "color splotches" lacking clear imagery ([24:57]). Becca agrees, citing the Good Dirt by Charmaine Wilkerson as an example of an overdone abstract cover that doesn’t appeal to her taste ([25:19]).

The conversation highlights the balance between aesthetic appeal and the conveyance of a book’s essence through its cover design.

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4. Glennon Doyle’s Substack Controversy

A significant portion of the episode examines the backlash surrounding Glennon Doyle’s recent move to Substack.

Background:
Glennon Doyle launched her Substack, rapidly gaining a substantial number of free and paid subscribers. However, this success sparked outrage both from within her existing fanbase and the broader Substack community. Critics argue that her presence oversaturates the platform, potentially overshadowing smaller creators.

Hosts’ Perspectives:

• Becca Freeman: Describes the situation as "kind of messed up," likening it to Liz Gilbert’s canceled book due to perceived propaganda ([34:08]). She criticizes the mob mentality targeting prominent figures who transition to platforms like Substack without carving their space organically.

• Olivia Muenter: Reflects on the misdirected anger online, understanding the frustration of smaller creators feeling overshadowed ([37:25]). She empathizes with the challenges faced by emerging writers while questioning the fairness of the backlash against established authors like Doyle.

Overall, Becca and Olivia advocate for a more supportive environment within the literary community, emphasizing the importance of allowing creators to utilize platforms like Substack to reach their audiences without undue criticism.

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5. Cultural Commentary: The Today Show as a Boomer Family Fixture

Olivia introduces a theory that the Today Show’s main cast serves as an extended family for many in the boomer generation.

Key Points:

• Parasocial Relationships: Olivia observes, "It's almost like some of the first parasocial relationships before social media existed" ([49:28]). The consistent presence of host figures like Al Roker fosters a sense of familial connection among viewers.

• Family Conversations: The hosts share anecdotes of family members discussing Today Show personalities as if they were real relatives, highlighting the show's deep cultural integration ([47:46]).

• Influence and Longevity: Olivia expresses concern over the Today Show’s ability to adapt and maintain its influence, especially with potential changes in hosts. "The frequency with which they come up, I just... It's something that weighs heavily on my mind" ([50:10]).

Becca adds that the show's ability to pick books for Jenna’s book club has a significant impact on authors' successes, further cementing its role in viewers' lives.

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6. Sleep Routines and Personal Wellness

The conversation shifts to discussing sleep habits and routines, highlighting how personal schedules impact overall well-being.

Becca Freeman:
Shares her experience of maintaining an earlier sleep schedule while in Maine, waking up naturally around 6:30 AM ([58:35]). She contemplates adopting a similar routine to enhance her productivity but recognizes the challenges of her current social commitments.

Olivia Muenter:
Describes her ideal sleep routine of being in bed by 9:00 PM and waking up naturally between 6:30 and 7:00 AM ([58:40]). She emphasizes the benefits of reading before sleep and minimizing screen time, though admits to inconsistencies due to social activities and hosting responsibilities.

The hosts exchange tips on establishing consistent sleep patterns, discussing obstacles like social gatherings that disrupt their routines and the importance of prioritizing rest for mental and physical health.

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7. Party Planning and Snack Ideas

Olivia and Becca enthusiastically share their approaches to hosting parties, focusing on creating enjoyable environments and selecting the perfect snacks.

Olivia Muenter:
Recounts her successful party setup, including the delight in arranging "little bowls of nerd clusters" to please guests ([64:00]). She expresses a desire for variety in snacks, suggesting options like lollipops to add fun elements to gatherings.

Becca Freeman:
Explores her favorite party snacks, advocating for pitted olives, Cape Cod potato chips (specifically salt and vinegar varieties), and nostalgic treats like Muddy Buddies/Puppy Chow ([64:32]). She emphasizes the importance of balancing sweet and salty options to cater to diverse tastes.

Joint Ideas:
The hosts consider the concept of a "chip and dip" party where each guest brings a unique dip or chip, ensuring a varied and engaging spread. Becca humorously mentions the challenge of avoiding repetitive items like onion dip, while Olivia shares her love for pretzel sticks and gourmet roasted nuts.

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8. Obsessions and Entertainment

The hosts discuss their current obsessions and favorite entertainment choices, offering recommendations to their listeners.

Olivia Muenter:
Expresses admiration for the show "Four Seasons," particularly appreciating its humor despite mixed reviews. "Like, is it a perfect show? No, not at all. But there are some funny moments" ([69:19]). She also mentions her nostalgia for early morning classes that required waking up at 4:45 AM, reflecting on how routines influence her perception of entertainment.

Becca Freeman:
Recommends the SNL sketch "Forever 31," praising its humorous take on fashion trends and generational differences. "It's so funny making fun of the way that people in their 30s dress and current fashion trends" ([71:07]).

Both hosts enjoy comedies that resonate with their personal experiences, highlighting the importance of relatable humor in their media consumption.

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9. Book Recommendations and Discussions

Becca and Olivia share their latest book reads, providing thoughtful insights and recommendations.

Becca Freeman:
Recommends "The Art of Vanishing" by Morgan Pager ([72:04]), describing it as a beautifully original narrative about a janitor at an art museum who discovers the ability to step inside paintings. She praises its storytelling and the emotional depth it brings, making her eager to visit museums.

She also introduces "Audition" by Katie Kitamura as the next book for their book club, highlighting its exploration of performance both on and off the stage. "It was very easy to read. Like it was gulpable" ([75:38]).

Olivia Muenter:
Shares her appreciation for "Ravishing" by Ashani Surya" ([73:44]), a dark thriller that serves as a commentary on societal beauty standards. Additionally, she recommends "Return of Ellie Black" by Emiko Jean" as a fast-paced, engaging read that kept her captivated throughout.

Both hosts emphasize books that offer a mix of emotional resonance and gripping narratives, catering to varied literary tastes within their audience.

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Conclusion

The May 2025 Three Things episode of Bad On Paper offers a multifaceted exploration of the hosts' personal lives, literary interests, and cultural observations. Becca Freeman and Olivia Muenter provide listeners with relatable experiences, insightful discussions on book trends and controversies, and practical advice on routines and entertaining. Their dynamic conversation underscores the podcast’s commitment to blending books with meaningful banter, making it a valuable resource for book enthusiasts seeking both information and connection.

Notable Quotes:

• Olivia Muenter on hosting: "I feel like the community" ([02:44])
• Becca Freeman on spin-offs: "I can remember things about it and still think about the characters or the world" ([21:47])
• Olivia Muenter on misdirected anger: "How do you feel about this?" ([36:14])
• Becca Freeman on routines: "I don't have groceries, I haven't unpacked like" ([11:21])
• Olivia Muenter on the Today Show: "The frequency with which they come up, I just... It's something that weighs heavily on my mind" ([50:10])

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Connect with Bad On Paper:

• Facebook Group: Under Bound Paper
• Geneva Group: Under Bound on Paper Podcast
• Instagram: @boundpaperpodcast
• Substack: Becca Freeman at becca freeman.substack.com | Olivia Mentor at olivia mentor Substack

Join the conversation and stay updated with weekly discussions on books and literary trends.

Transcript

[Olivia Mentor]

Hi, everyone and welcome to Bad on Paper podcast. I am Olivia, mentor.

[Becca Freeman]

And I'm Becca Freeman.

[Olivia Mentor]

And today's our three Things episode. First May.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm very excited. I didn't have any things top of mind, but then last night I was on a plane back from Maine and I. I brainstormed and I really like what I came up with.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, good. Me too. It's a light and a light and breezy three things for me, so it'll be fun.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, great.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, we will get to some highs and lows in just one second. But first, this episode is sponsored by Nuuly and we will tell you more about how much we love this clothing rental subscription later in the episode. But just know that you can take 28 off your first month of Nuuly making it just $70 when you head to n u l y com. That's Nuuly with two u's and use.

[Becca Freeman]

Code B O P. Olivia, we haven't talked in over a week. Well, I mean, we've texted, but we haven't zoomed. We haven't potted. Tell me you're high time is flying.

[Olivia Mentor]

Because it doesn't feel like that. I feel like it's just been jam packed. You've been busy, I've been busy. My high is that over the weekend Jake and I had, it wasn't really a party to celebrate anything in particular. At one point, we were going to do a birthday party in March for both of us that kind of fell apart. And then we've never done a housewarming party. So this was just the idea was to celebrate warm weather. Being back.

[Becca Freeman]

What a thing to celebrate.

[Olivia Mentor]

I know being able to be outside, arms exposed is a thing that should have a party, I think. But yeah, so we had it. There was about 20 or 25 people. It's the most people we've had in our house. And it was just so, so much fun. I had such a good time. I was trying to think of some highlights, but one of my friends brought over like lilacs from her yard in like a old honey jar. I was like, this is so wonderful and I've been like, smelling them all weekend. There was a midnight dance party, which was my dream. We were just listening to like early 2000s hip hop ke$ha. It was so fun. And then a couple of our friends stayed and we talked on the porch until like 2 in the morning. Oh.

[Becca Freeman]

And it was just, what a good house party.

[Olivia Mentor]

Thanks. Yeah, I want to do more for sure. It's more work than you expect. Just like thinking of all the things but our house like handled. I was like, oh, we could have like double this amount of people. Like we could do a big. It was just really the community.

[Becca Freeman]

We'd have the whole town over.

[Olivia Mentor]

Make make me a sweatshirt that says pillar of the community and I'll just wear it around.

[Becca Freeman]

You know how much I love making merch with our bat on paper printing account. Like I might.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's kind of funny. I'll probably be made fun of in the small town gossip circles. But yeah, it was just. We just ordered Domino's. I had like cheese snacks, vegetables, dips, that kind of thing. It was just really nice to like really know people and to show them the writing cottage. And there's beer pong. I haven't played beer pong in a long time. But we're able to be outside. There was no mosquitoes. It was like just. And when we sat on the porch later and talked, it was raining. But it was just like a really nice evening. It was really nice. And so I'm just feeling really thankful for that. I can't remember the last time I stayed up till 3:30 in the morning.

[Becca Freeman]

But you know, you're young, you're vital, you're alive.

[Olivia Mentor]

I am. I'm a pillar and I am young. That's what we'll go with.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

But tell me about your high.

[Becca Freeman]

My high was that I just went to Maine for the week and it was so lovely. It was kind of the opposite of yours. It was like just very slow and quiet and nice. No ke$ no ke$ha. Absolutely no ke$ha. It was really fun. I was there for a little over a week and actually the weather sucked. Both weekends, it rained both weekends and was gorgeous during the week. Go figure. So you know, we did a little adventuring but the adventuring was somewhat curtailed by the weather. And then during the week, you know, my friends worked and I worked on my book and it's really nice to be away from your environment and kind of all of the procrastination I can invent in my own house in terms of I need to clean this or I need to return this or I need to go do this. And so it was really nice to not have excuses. And I had been wrestling with this one chapter that I needed to rewrite and I'm going to be a little vague about it because it would be a big spoiler if I told you the specifics. But I knew what had to happen at the most macro level. But I didn't Know the scenes to get me there. And I have just been really wrestling with this for maybe two weeks, and I kind of just chipped away at it. And I'm so excited I got through it. And I just, I feel really into the book now. I feel like I can see it more clearly. On Friday, I reread the first 140 pages, which is my toxic author habit of, like, rereading instead of actually writing, but I just, I love it. I feel so good. And so, yeah, being in Maine was, was really wonderful. And we ate so many lobster rolls.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, that's. I, that sounds so good. I actually was going back through my photos looking for lobster roll photos because my friend is going to a gun quit. And then I was thinking about that lobster roll place that you made me go to that I think of now. Yes, it's. It's Bridge.

[Becca Freeman]

Footbridge. Footbridge.

[Olivia Mentor]

Footbridge, yes. Oh, my God. With mayo and butter. I, I. Anyway, so I was thinking of lobster rolls. You were eating lobster rolls, and I love that for you. And I'm glad that you had the book experience you wanted.

[Becca Freeman]

It was really, really nice. And it was really nice to spend quality time with my friends up there, too.

[Olivia Mentor]

Good. I scrolled through your week in a Life in Maine. Very fun.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, yeah, I sent an. I sent an email last night. If you want more details, there are all the details. It's like 2,500 words of details. I felt like it was one of those letters that I should put like a Are you still here? Comment with a orange heart if you're still reading.

[Olivia Mentor]

But that's what people want. They want all the details, you know, they want the, all the stops, the places you go, what you do. I think people are curious, so I'm sure people will enjoy it.

[Becca Freeman]

Hope so.

[Olivia Mentor]

What's your low?

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, my gosh, my low. I came into this podcast, I came into this morning not thinking I was gonna have a low, and then I just, like, made myself a low this morning. Manufactured one. So I, this morning went on this package quest for these two UPS packages that got delivered to be held somewhere while I was gone. And I was getting the threatening texts of, you have three days to pick up your package. You have two days to pick up your package. Today was the last day that I could pick them up, and they were delivered somewhere so weird. It was like 15 minutes away. This random pharmacy I'd never heard of. And so Olivia pushed back recording 30 minutes, and I was like, oh, can we actually push it back 45? So I can run to get these packages because I think it's gonna start pouring any second. And so I quest myself over there. Pharmacy's not open yet. It doesn't open till 10. So then I'm waiting around. Then it takes them forever to find my packages. Then I need to like schlep everything back. And I, like, I pushed the podcast back two more times. It was just such an annoying way to start my mother up. It was just such an annoying thing. And I feel like it's so funny. Zoe, who was just on our episode that we did about failure and rejection, did a week in the Life newsletter recently and she said something to the effect of like, if you're looking at somebody's life in New York and they're not talking about schlepping random stuff all over the place, like, and always having five bags with them, they're lying. And like, that was what this was like just needing to go retrieve my packages that got left who knows where.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm glad you got them. I hope they're good stuff. You got some steps in. I mean, I did, I did get steps.

[Becca Freeman]

And the other thing is that it was kicked off the day it was PR things. So I was like, I don't even know what this is that I'm picking up.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, it better be good then. I'm glad you didn't open them because what if they're disappointing? Then you'd be extra upset.

[Becca Freeman]

I can tell. One is books. I don't know what the other one is.

[Olivia Mentor]

Books are always good.

[Becca Freeman]

Books are always good. So anyway, it was just like an annoying errand that I didn't want to run first thing Monday morning but was feeling stressed about because they were going to, I don't know, send them back.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, they're very threatening. I've never really had a great experience at a post office or a drop off point or anything really. I just feel like it's always way more stressful than it needs to be. No one is being nice. Everyone's like, why don't you go to the other post office? I'm like, I don't know. Just accept this package that's pre labeled, please. I don't need this today, but I'm glad you got the packages.

[Becca Freeman]

I got the packages. That sounds like a spy lingo thing. The package delivered like, we're Secret Service agents. What about you? What is your low?

[Olivia Mentor]

So my low is that yesterday was Sunday. It was the day after the party. Everyone left at like 2:15 and then we had to gather all of the Glasses and wine and blow out the candle, you know. So it was like I probably wasn't asleep until 3:30 or something. And the next day I just. Yesterday I had the most epic rot day of any life experience I can remember. I just did not.

[Becca Freeman]

The day after a party is for 12 hours.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's true. I haven't needed one of these days in a long time.

[Becca Freeman]

And hosting. But hosting takes a whole different level of preparation and energy than even just attending and having a late night.

[Olivia Mentor]

It does, yeah. And everyone was lovely. Like people brought food and stuff so it wasn't like I was you know, in the kitchen all day. But I was like between cleaning and organizing and moving furniture around. Like I think I was on my feet from 7:30am until 3:30am yeah, basically. And in between there a very physically intense dance party. So it was a lot of Bad bunny was in there. Anyway, so Sundays usually this year I've like reserved for. I change my sheets, I clean the bathroom, I change out all the towels, I clean the fridge, I prep like food for the week just in terms of like making a meal list. I grocery shop did none of that. In fact I was in my pajamas until 10:00pm yes. And I think I actually watched more television yesterday than I have watched in the last six months combined. I went through a lot of love after lockup.

[Becca Freeman]

Show me, show me the low here. This sounds like, well, a high. This sounds like a well deserved rot day.

[Olivia Mentor]

Thank you. It was great. But then this morning when I woke up and I realized that we had to record and I hadn't read any ads and I was running behind and I needed to like eat a nutrient or two. I. Yeah, I just felt. I don't like feeling this way on a Monday.

[Becca Freeman]

The feeling of not feeling set up. I do feel the same way this week. I got back at like 6:30 last night. I don't have groceries, I haven't unpacked like.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. So yeah, I don't know, it just. I feel like the whole week gets pushed back then because I have kind of a busy work week. So I'm like, I'll be fine. You know what? It's it. You're right. Where is the low? I'm young and I'm alive and I watched a lot of love after lockup. So I feel like I've gained some.

[Becca Freeman]

Knowledge of now I'm stalking your calendar to be like what's on Olivia's busy work week? We both have access to each other's calendar. So sometimes I'm just like nosy Britches McGee.

[Olivia Mentor]

It's a combination of I'm the next round of edits and I'm trying to finalize some things for the writing and reading retreat.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, and Jake's going on a big trail hike. I see. Sorry I'm so creepy.

[Olivia Mentor]

Which requires nothing for me, in fact, concern. Well, we're not even into the things.

[Becca Freeman]

We're not even into the things. Let's get into a topic that I care a lot about and take this ad break.

[Olivia Mentor]

This episode is sponsored by Nuuly. As I was just saying, we had a party over the weekend, we had friends come over and there is a group of us women who we all rent from Nuuly and our running joke is like, it's a miracle that we don't arrive at social gatherings just wearing the exact same thing. But the truth is that there is so much variety on Nuuly that like we're actually never at risk of doing that. And not only that, but we all have different styles, we all have different body types, we all have vastly different careers and day to day lives and Nuuly still works for each and every one of us. And that's exactly how versatile it is. And plus, it is just so fun. Like one of the women that was at my party was showing us this sequin dress that she rented for her upcoming birthday party and we were all talking about what we would rent. It's just fun. It's just delightful.

[Becca Freeman]

I gotta tell you, I had another banger of a Nuuly month. I am really contemplating buying one of the dresses that is in my Nuuly which you get a discount on if you buy from them. So with nuuly for just $98 a month, you can get your choice of any six styles each month. And there's thousands of styles and more than 400 brands to choose from. And they have inclusive sizing up to 5x as well as petite and maternity sizes. They have fast free shipping and returns and professional cleaning. And Nuuly's state of the art laundering facility, which means no laund for you to worry about. Plus as I said, there's an option for you to buy what you love at a discount.

[Olivia Mentor]

Nuuly is a great value at $98 a month for any six styles. But right now you can get $28 off your first month of Nuuly when you sign up with the code BOP. Just go to n u u l y dot com, that's Nuuly with two U's and enter the code BOP and sign up to get $28 off your first month. That's N-U-U-L-Y.com Nuuly with two U's with code BOP Nuuly subscription, clothing rental. Change your clothes.

[Becca Freeman]

All right, Olivia, into these things.

[Olivia Mentor]

What is the first thing you have brought us today?

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, I'm very excited about this. I maybe should have given you a heads up so you could brainstorm. But last night on the plane, I was doing my book report newsletter, and I was putting together my list of all of the May new releases that are coming out, and I realized that there's kind of. I don't know that it's really a trend because it's not really a new thing, but there's all of these books that are coming out that are spinoff books of previous books. So, okay, as an example, like One Golden Summer by Carly Fortune, which comes out this month, is about Charlie, who's the brother character from Every Summer After. And then another example is there's Tia Williams has a book coming out this month called Audrey and Bash Are Just Friends. And Audrey is the daughter character from Seven Days in June or later this summer. Alyssa Sussman has a new book coming out called Totally and Completely Fine, and that's the sister character from Funny youy Should Ask. So it's kind of these books that are coming out that weren't necessarily planned series, you know, like, with, like, the Rome books by Sarah Adams, there's four siblings. And, like, you knew from the very beginning that each one was gonna have their own book. Or with, like, the Kennedy Ryan Skyland series, it's Three Best friends, and you knew that each was gonna get their own book. So these kind of feel like more surprise spinoffs. And so I was thinking, what are books or characters that you would love to see get their own spin off book?

[Olivia Mentor]

This is a good question. Well, why don't you share yours and I'll think as you talk since I need to brainstorm a little bit.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay. I have five.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. Okay, great.

[Becca Freeman]

The first one, just based on recency, was we were talking about this in the Wild Dark Shore Book Club episode. Fen, the teen daughter character, I would love. And obviously, this doesn't make sense for Charlotte McConaughey to write. This isn't her genre. But I would love to read a book about Fen returning to Australia and going to regular high school and adjusting back to life after having been brought up from age 10 or something on this remote island in Antarctica.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm with you. That's a great One. I second that completely. I would read that.

[Becca Freeman]

Would love to read that. The other one that I came up with, very old. I don't think we're getting this one. Don't you think it would be fun to read an Emily book from the Devil Wears Prada?

[Olivia Mentor]

Is that Emily Blunt's character?

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. Is Emily her name in the movie? Okay, yeah, but those were books first.

[Olivia Mentor]

I have no idea. But okay. Yeah, I think that would be good for sure.

[Becca Freeman]

And I feel like she kind of has an arc seemingly where she gets ousted and maybe she finds a life after fashion. I don't know. I would love to read her book.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay, that sounds great too.

[Becca Freeman]

The next one.

[Olivia Mentor]

Funny.

[Becca Freeman]

I don't think this is too much of a spoiler to say. I think this is fine. Okay. Just talking myself into it. So in the Ellen Hildebrand book 28 Summers, the story is about this couple who are having a 28 summer long affair where they have like a one week a year fling and the rest of the year they don't really talk. They're not together. And I would really love to read light spoiler, like fast forward. If you're gonna read this and you don't wanna hear a spoiler, the man in it who she's having the affair with is married to a political figure. Like an up and coming political figure that kind of seems like maybe like a Hillary Clinton or a slightly older aoc. And I would love to read a book about Ursula and Jake and like their marriage, how they fell in love. Like, does she know about the affair and she's okay with it? Does she have something on the side? Like, I would love to read their story.

[Olivia Mentor]

That sounds good in some ways.

[Becca Freeman]

Maybe like Rodham by Curtis Sittenfeld is that story. But I feel like you could do something really interesting with it. Okay. And then the last two that I have. Are you read Blue Sisters, right?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay. So in Blue Sisters, I would specifically love to read a book about Lucky, who is the sister who was the model who was an alcoholic, and then kind of at the end of the book, she was maybe restarting her life. I find this really fascinating, like life post fame or, you know, if you think of anyone who was like a child star or anyone who is, you know, in a girl group, like a pop band type thing, and then it's like what happens when you graduate out of that.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. I would read like a thousand more pages about any of those sisters. So I'm with you.

[Becca Freeman]

And then the last one I immediately thought of was Lila from the Wedding People. So she was the bride who was supposed to be getting married in the Wedding People and very neurotic, like, whatever. But I would love to read a book from her perspective. And then, you know, maybe Phoebe, who is the main character in the Wedding People is in the background.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes, me too. I was just talking to someone about that book the other day and they read it for the first time. And I was like, isn't it just the best?

[Becca Freeman]

So tell me what you have come up with. Have I vamped enough for you to come up with some.

[Olivia Mentor]

This is definitely a situation where we will stop recording and I will be like, I chose the wrong things. But going off of Wild Darkshore. I'm with you on fen 100%. But also I would love to read the mother's story, like. Cause she's sort of a page a lot. But actually I don't. Again, like, with books, things leave my head very quickly. So I could be forgetting a lot. But I would just love to know more about her. And like, obviously Dominic was so deeply in love with her. I just want to know, you know, what book I keep thinking about that I read towards the end of last year that I would read another book from any character's perspective is the Rachel Incident.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, that would be fun.

[Olivia Mentor]

Any person, any character, that author I would be in. I don't know. I feel like I'm not very good at this. But I'm gonna think about it more. I'm gonna think about it more. I'm looking at my list. It's hard because it's like I immediately remember my favorite books the most. But then like, my favorite books are so precious to me. But I'm like a sequel would. Or like a connected book. I would hate to compare them. Cause then it's already the stakes are so high. You know, the bar is so high. But just before we started recording, actually, I saw that Kathryn Newman is coming out with a follow up to Sandwich that is the same characters that comes out in October, which is such a quick turnaround. So she must have had two books in mind the whole time. But yeah, I'm really curious to read that.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, this is a question that I'm very excited to hear what the listeners say too in the Facebook and the Geneva group. Because I feel like people have very strong feelings about certain books, universes, characters that they would like to see continue.

[Olivia Mentor]

The listeners are going to have great answers to this. So I should have step in and succeed where I failed.

[Becca Freeman]

Guys, I should have given you a heads up, but I was on a plane so I didn't have wifi.

[Olivia Mentor]

You're fine. It's really just a matter of am I the only one? Also listeners tell me this, like when I read a book, like it's gone. I remember the feelings and like the emotions, the emotional experience of reading the book. But details, characters, names, I think can't wait to hear from the list.

[Becca Freeman]

I think this would mean more than others and I think that's the mark of maybe what's a five star book versus a four star book? Like I enjoyed it in the moment versus I can remember things about it and still think about the characters or the world.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, definitely. My question for you is we're almost halfway through the year, which is hard to believe, but yes, that's true. I'm like confirming it to myself as I say it out loud. But what have been some of your standout covers? Covers of the year, like, oh, interesting in your personal taste. This is another one. Interesting. Maybe could have given you notice.

[Becca Freeman]

No, that's okay. So do you have some? You go first.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. So one that I love that I'm reading right now actually is the Colony by Annika Norlin, who is this was a Swedish. This is a Swedish author. It came out in Sweden and then I guess it became so famous and re released or released for the first time in the U.S. i'm loving this book so much. I'm almost done. But the COVID is like this kind of light blue, very light blue background. And then against it, very stark, is just this ant, this giant ant. And the font is bright red. And it is so simple. But like for some reason I find it so striking. I just really love it, how simple it is. Another one that I really love, completely different direction is the Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartnett, which just came out. I haven't read it yet, but she.

[Becca Freeman]

Wrote Unlikely Animals, right?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes, I got it in the mail and I just loved how it looked. I love the size of the book, which is kind of weird. It's one of those covers that I think is actually much more striking in person than it is just like if you Google it. But for some reason the combination of like the illustration style, the colors, the fonts, just really scratched something in my brain. And then I was looking through other popular titles on Goodreads just to get a sense of some things I might have forgotten or I might have missed. And I saw this cover of this book I had never heard of called Immortal by Sue Lynn Tan. It is so gorgeous. It's this design of different colors and, like, it looks kind of magical and there's different fonts. It's just. It's so colorful and beautiful and I love how it looks. And then finally, another book I saw when I was searching is Something in the Walls by Daisy Pierce, which I haven't read, but I just thought that the detail of it's kind of this close up of, like, wallpaper and underneath you can see, like, the walls. It's just this really interesting, like 3D. I don't know. It gives it some depth the way the wallpaper is peeling and it's kind of ominous and eerie and I just really loved it. I like covers that have, like, some element of, like, texture to them. Like that where it gives it some depth. Yeah, I'm just repeating words now. Anyway, those are some that stood out to me. I'm definitely forgiving some.

[Becca Freeman]

Is there anything cover wise that you feel over that you're sick of?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. What I call it arts and craftsy covers.

[Becca Freeman]

What does that mean?

[Olivia Mentor]

Which are like the. I don't want to use this example because I don't want to. It's like color splotches, you know, it's like abstract shapes, right? Yes, abstract shapes. Like, when you look at it, it's just sort of like a wash of color. You don't really see anything. It looks very like.

[Becca Freeman]

Like. I'm thinking of conceptual cover of, like, Good Dirt by Charmaine Wilkerson. That is.

[Olivia Mentor]

That was exactly what I was thinking of. Yes. Which I know a lot of people love that book, but that cover. Yeah, that trend is just not for me. And I think it might just be because it's like, overdone at this point, which. That always happens with covers. You know, there's a trend and. But yeah, I don't know. What about you? Do you have strong feelings about covers? Like, is there any type of COVID that, like, you will not pick up.

[Becca Freeman]

The book if that's the COVID No, absolutely not. I think I judge books by cover, so a good cover will make me more likely to pick it up. But if I've heard good things about a book or I really like the author, I'll pick it up even if the COVID doesn't do anything for me. I feel like this year I'm reading a lot more on my Kindle than I have been in years past. So in some ways, the COVID doesn't even matter to me.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, that's a good point. I'm not a fan of the. A photo of a human being is that, you know, it's like, I always.

[Becca Freeman]

You are or not.

[Olivia Mentor]

I am not. Like, when they were asking you what I didn't want for such a bad influence, I was like, whatever you do, I just cannot do a woman staring into a forest with, like, her hair blowing back. Just like a photo.

[Becca Freeman]

A woman walking away. Have you seen that meme for historical fiction?

[Olivia Mentor]

No, but that is the thing in historical fiction, too. And I. I just. I can't.

[Becca Freeman]

There's this.

[Olivia Mentor]

Let's get something else.

[Becca Freeman]

There's this meme of this guy who goes into a Barnes and Noble and he's like, I'm here for a book about a woman walking away. And he just keeps showing different. A woman and a child walking away. Two women walking away. A woman and a man walking away. Like. Yep, it's very funny.

[Olivia Mentor]

Cobblestones in the background. Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

I guess I tend to like things that are a little more, like, conceptual than photorealistic.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay. I don't mind a cover that has. Has a photo on it. There's this cover that I'm trying to find right now because it's not a book I even have on my tbr. I just really like the COVID And it's this woman who's kind of laying, reclining on a couch maybe, and her hair, and she has, like, great. Kind of like, curly dark hair is kind of just cascading over the side of the couch.

[Olivia Mentor]

And it sounds like. I know it's not. Margot's got money troubles, but isn't she also on a couch?

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, she's, like, flopped on her face on the couch. And this is. Okay, yes, the woman's hair is cascading behind her on the couch. And it almost kind of looks like the COVID of Old Enough by Hayley Jacobson with that woman with the curly hair. But it's not that. It's like a further out photo, but every time I see it, I'm really struck by it. Can't remember the name of the book. Maybe this is like a game of telephone where somebody who listens to this will be able to tell me what it is. Because I'm scrolling right now through the Goodreads top books of the year, trying to see if I can find it, and I. I can't.

[Olivia Mentor]

Anyway, I did want to correct myself and say I did. Maybe I'm completely wrong because the COVID of Mad Woman by Chelsea Beaker is one of my favorite covers. And I think it's technically a photo of a woman, like a realistic photo. So, anyway, I'm wrong But go on. I was just correcting myself.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, so the first one that came to mind for this year is I love the COVID for Hannah Orenstein's forthcoming book, Main Characters.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

And I love it both because I think it's very beautiful. It's a kind of pinky orange sunset over a lake. So the sunset's reflected back in the lake. But I also really love that she has a family cabin on a lake in Maine that she's been going to her whole life. And the cabin in the COVID is comped off of her family's house. And I think that's so special and lovely.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes, it is. It is. It's a really very nice cover.

[Becca Freeman]

It's very striking. Another one that I really like is Hot Air by Marcy Germanski. I haven't gotten around to this book yet, but it's just the. It almost looks like I don't know what they are like.

[Olivia Mentor]

So I don't know either.

[Becca Freeman]

Candy bars. I'm not sure what they're supposed to be, but it's like these neon bars of color. And then the text on it contrasts with the background color. I think it's so poppy and it's so. It stands out so much.

[Olivia Mentor]

So I don't know what it is either, actually, now that I'm thinking about it.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I was like, I can picture it in my head. I pulled up a photo and I'm like, I can't tell you what these are. Another one that I like, I haven't read the book yet is Slanting towards the Sea by Lydia Hilge. This is Michelle Martin, recommended on our January book preview. And it's a painting of a woman. So it is. It's not photorealistic. It's very painterly. Like, you can see the brushstrokes very close up, rather than like a Carly Fortune where the people are much smaller. And I think this cover is stunning.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

A woman in a bathing suit. She has great earrings on.

[Olivia Mentor]

I. I actually, I shared it on my Instagram and someone said, oh, I really hope that's an actual painting and not an AI generated cover. And I was like, I assumed it was an actual painting. I'm sure it is, but I hadn't even thought of that. Like, oh, I don't know if that's a thing for, like, major publishers. I would kind of think not. But anyway, I'm really looking forward to read that one, too.

[Becca Freeman]

And the last one that I have that I'm really looking forward to this book. It's called the Wilderness by Angela Flournoy. And it kind of reminds me of the COVID of Pineapple Street a little bit. Like, it's a. It's definitely like a living room that you're seeing, but it is arts and craftsy. Like, it looks almost multimedia interesting. Like collage y.

[Olivia Mentor]

That's vibey.

[Becca Freeman]

It's Vibey, right?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

And it's. The book sounds great. It's about five black women over the course of their 20 year friendship. And you know that I love long term friendship books, so I'm very excited. It doesn't come out until September.

[Olivia Mentor]

That looks great. I haven't heard about that one, but looks very cool.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I'm definitely into a more like, not just shapes, but something that's like, a little more abstract than certainly like a cartoon people cover.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

So somewhere in the middle between, like just color blobs and like, renderings of cartoon people.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, I'm with you. I do think it's really interesting, though, how both of us. The range of, like, what you can love is so wide, you know, like, it's not like the books we chose have one specific thing in common.

[Becca Freeman]

Kind of like a. I'll know it when I see it.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Becca Freeman]

All right. Are you ready for another thing?

[Olivia Mentor]

I am.

[Becca Freeman]

Have you followed any of the controversy around Glennon Doyle's week on Substack?

[Olivia Mentor]

This is a very interesting thing you bring up. So I was on Substack last week. As I am. I don't have the app, so I go on my laptop, which means I'm usually on it a lot more during the week. So I was on. I saw she was on there. I watched a video of hers for maybe like two minutes where she's in the car and she's just talking about the time she went on the Today show and I saw she already had thousands of paid subscribers. I was like, okay, she's doing paid subscriptions. Whatever. I kind of didn't think much of it generally. I saw that people were excited on the few notes I saw obviously went off. Then I was looking on Instagram yesterday, and someone was like, people were so mean to Glennon Doyle that she left after two days on Substack. And I was like, okay, what did I miss? Like, what did I miss in the interim? So please explain this to me. I need to know. I don't think a substack is a mean platform, but I do have feelings about the way that it pretends to be all sunshine and rainbows all the time. That I think is bullshit, but tell Me.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, so this is how I understand what happens. So about a week ago, Glennon Doyle launches her substack. She has recently left Instagram. She said that she doesn't like what Instagram has kind of become. She left Instagram. She's like, substack's gonna be. You know, she obviously has her podcast and her books, but she's like, this is where I'm gonna be. And over the course of a week, she ends up accumulating about a quarter of a million free subscribers. And I don't know how many, but she had the purple check mark, which means she had at least 10,000 paid subscribers. So, you know, she brought her audience. People were immediately like, you don't even need to prove it to me. I'm here for this. And it's funny that you said that you saw a lot of excitement, because I saw just so much outrage was all I saw. And so my understanding of what happened was that both within her community and also just the substack community at large, who are not Glennon Doyle fans, there was this huge, shamey outpouring of, I'm really disappointed that you would come here and basically, like, suck up all the oxygen in the room instead of using your profile to lift up other smaller creators.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. Okay, so this is what I figured happened.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. It was both from within her community, where even people who love Glennon Doyle were like, I'm disappointed in you. And then also from people who are not Glennon Doyle fans were like, how it sucks that this huge creator came here and is stealing paid subscriptions that, like, could have been mine as a small creator, which I think is, like, I don't know. I thought the whole thing was a little screwed up. Like, I think she has as much right to be there as anyone. And, you know, if anything, she's bringing this huge audience with her who could potentially want to subscribe to other publications, who maybe they don't have their credit card in substack and have never paid to subscribe to something before, but love Glennon, and that's going to be their gateway. So I thought the whole thing was, like, kind of messed up. And it really reminded me of. Do you remember, I guess it was probably two years ago where Liz Gilbert announced that she had written this book and this book was coming out, and it was based in Siberia in, like, the 1950s. It was, like historical fiction based in Russia. And people were so upset. They perceived it as being pro Russia propaganda. Even though I think the hook of the book was that it was like people who were in a utopian kind of outside of society. Not cult, but like subsistence living group. So it wasn't like part of Russian society. It was like these people very on the fringes of culture. And it was also set in, I believe, the 1950s or 60s, so it was not contemporary whatsoever. And she ended up canceling her book. She ended up saying people were so outraged. She got review bombed on Goodreads where it had like so many 1 star reviews before anyone had read the text. And she said, I'm gonna pull this book, I'm not gonna publish it. And it was like kind of the same thing where it's like you bully one of these big personalities and cooperating with whatever the mainstream who isn't necessarily right wants. How do you feel about this?

[Olivia Mentor]

I think the longer I exist on the Internet, the more that I understand like how much misdirected anger there is. And I think that's really a product of living in a time, in a country right now, in an administration that like, you feel very helpless and you feel very much like, what can I even do? And so you end up getting angry at, you know, like I posted on something on Instagram recently that was like, it is really hard right now because you're living your life, everything is burning, you're enjoying your life, but, you know, like, you're trying to care about the right things. And then someone's like, well, it must be nice to not, you know, to not be totally leveled by this every day. And someone messaged me that and you know, it stung. But I kind of understand, I understand the sentiment. So I understand when people get mad about. I think the Liz Gilbert thing was way too far. And I think we both said that at the time, like it didn't make much sense. But the Glennon Doyle thing I think is similar in the sense that I've seen a lot of sort of general undercurrent of like people thinking that substack is oversaturated and like fighting for being panicked that it's all gonna go away or something.

[Becca Freeman]

Good old days type thing, you know, back in the day when it was this idyllic place where it's like romanticizing the early days of it and resisting its evolution. Yeah, I think that is the natural evolution of it where as more people come in and not just Glennon Doyle, even mid sized creators or, you know, like, I'm thinking like Miranda July started a substack that's been massively popular earlier this year. And you know, just like I saw Pete Buttigieg on there the other day, like, you know, I don't think he's paid one.

[Olivia Mentor]

Pete's recently.

[Becca Freeman]

I don't think he's. I don't know if he has a paid one. But, you know, like, people who are public figures or who, you know, have established followings outside of this platform are going to come here and it's like, it probably is going to get harder to grow because there's more saturation and like, did. That's also the nature of getting more readers on the platform too.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. I mean, like, should Glennon Doyle stop writing, you know, self help books because there's some other author out there who, you know, it's like, it doesn't make any sense. You know, at the same time, I get, like, seeing someone come on substack and immediately have 10,000 paid subscribers or whatever it was, is someone who, like, you know, my career would be. I would have to get another job if I lost substack. You know, I would have to fill that gap somehow. I understand that frustration. Do I think it's right to direct that towards her to the point where it pushes her off the platform? No. And from what I do know about Glennon Doyle, I feel like she would have used it to, you know, to uplift other people. Do I think she maybe needed to launch paid subscriptions right away? Perhaps not. I don't know. What do you think? Is it kind of like, sure, why not?

[Becca Freeman]

I don't know. I guess I. I kind of tend to think that, you know, did she do the work to get 10,000 plus paid subscribers on Substack? She didn't do the work on substack, which is frustrating, I understand, but she, like, did the work somewhere else. Like, she has cultivated this hyper loyalty, following who she can bring from place to place. And so I kind of feel like it's unfair to be like, she doesn't deserve this. I really hate to see validation for, like, the mob mentality, like, oh, this works. We should just gang up on people and demand they do totally what we like. I hate seeing that.

[Olivia Mentor]

Also, what does it change, you know, like, ultimately, like, is someone gonna, you know, have the free $5 from their Glennon Doyle membership and then go support someone else, or are they likely just never go on substack again, to your point, probably that, like, if she brought that many people to substack, which, from what I hear from outside the substack world, most people don't even know what it is.

[Becca Freeman]

Totally.

[Olivia Mentor]

Most people day to day have no Clue. So to what you said, if she's going to bring more people, like that.

[Becca Freeman]

Is important, that maybe merits unpacking. Like when we say substack, people have probably like fast forwarded through this or they don't know what this is like. So we both host our newsletter on Substack. So when you get our newsletter in your inbox, it's through Substack, which also has its own kind of like built in social media, Twitter adjacent type thing inside of it. There's like a community on Substack, but for a lot of people, they're just getting the newsletters and it doesn't matter if it's coming from substack or mailchimp or wherever. You know, I thought it was really interesting. So do you know who Carol Claire Burke is?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes.

[Becca Freeman]

So she is an author and like culture person. Anyway, she was really riled by this and wrote like this huge long manifesto note about this and she had an example of like, is this sexism Was kind of a question. She was unpacking and she said she kind of netted out that she didn't think that it was necessarily sexism, but she used the example of. Jim Acosta did receive a really big wave of backlash when he signed up on Substack and kind of the same flavor of like, how dare you bring your big following to this small, beautiful village and like ruin it. And he just ignored it and he started posting and, you know, the fury died down and he was creating content that like, added value. And so I think people then like saw the value in that and he earned it, but he ignored it. And I think that's really interesting that it's like somebody like Glennon Doyle whose whole thing is about emotional vulnerability. And I feel like a lot of people feel like they have a connection to her and feel like they are friends with her and maybe in that way feel like they get a say in this in a way that it's like, oh, actually you don't.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

What?

[Olivia Mentor]

Has she said anything about why? Or is it just implied that it's because of the backlash? And she was just like, I'm not going to deal with it. Because Liz Gilbert was like, this isn't the time for this. Whatever.

[Becca Freeman]

You know, she wrote a second letter being like, I'm leaving. This doesn't feel like a safe place for me.

[Olivia Mentor]

I just feel like it's such misdirected. Like there's so much to be frustrated and angry about right now. Like, do we really need to be like this woman who's just trying to like, help other women. Like, let's. I don't know, I mean, she could have just turned off paid subscriptions and kept going and then turn them back on. It does remind me a lot of like a year ago, a year and a half ago, there was a lot of pushback to influencers joining substack. I think people are just like, like you said, they want this. Like, this is a pristine, like, safe. All the notes that are like, substack feels like sitting in the middle of a field and like doing a cross stitch or whatever. It's like, it's just a money making platform whose founders honestly are the same brand of tech bro. That run every other social media platform and are questionable. Like, it's. I don't know. Ultimately I. I'm grateful for it because it gives me a way to make money for myself as a writer that doesn't involve all of the freelance work that just completely made me feel brain dead for so many years. But it was the only way I could make consistent money. So I don't know, I'm kind of rambling again. This is niche. People are like, I have tuned out.

[Becca Freeman]

I know it's a niche drama, but I cared a lot about it.

[Olivia Mentor]

I care too. And I hope that she comes back. I'm not. I wouldn't consider myself a Glennon Doyle fan. I'm kind of Glennon Doyle neutral.

[Becca Freeman]

That's the other thing is like, I'm definitely absorbing this from the outside of her community.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. But do you agree that, like, there is just this. People are just angry and they don't know where to put it and it just ends up going to the wrong places. A lot of time. Like, it's just ends up something like, like the Liz Gilbert thing. Like, of course everyone was upset about what was happening in Ukraine. Looking back with some perspective, does that make any sense, what happened to me? No, I don't think it does.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I agree with you. I think that, you know, during elections, during any time of like deep cultural turmoil, like, I think people are just more riled up on the Internet.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. Yeah. Which same. I get angry about stupid things on the Internet all the time, but I try to just move on.

[Becca Freeman]

All right, let's move on from this niche drama. But very willing to talk more about it in the comments. If anyone cares about this, let's take another ad break and then let's get to another thing.

[Olivia Mentor]

This episode is sponsored by Cozier, whose whole mission is to transform your 5 to 9 the time that matters most. Into the most comfortable part of your day. Personally, I love using my five to nine to first and foremost, change into my most comfortable clothing, cook dinner while I listen to a podcast, relax with Jake, and then read or watch tv. And usually Cozy Earth is at least a small part of that because I am either wearing our bamboo pajamas or Jake is wearing his favorite Cozy Earth sweats, or we're both wearing Cozy Earth loungewear and it looks a lot like an in real life ad. But I've actually purchased all of Jake's Cozy Earth clothing because it's so nice. So sponsor, but not sponsored. Anyway, the point is that we love Cozy Earth. Really.

[Becca Freeman]

So it's was so funny because last fall I got so obsessed with the cuddle blanket, which is just. It's this faux fur blanket. It's so soft. It's also lightly weighted. It's 13 pounds. I weighed it once. It's not quite as heavy as a full weighted blanket, but it does have that like very relaxing dentist apron, X ray type feeling, you know what I mean? And so I ended up accidentally on purpose, like selling all of my friends on it. And so when I was up in Maine, Molly and I kept sharing the blanket and her partner Mike was like, I never get to use the blanket. Like, why don't you ever let me use the blanket? And they ended up ordering a second one while I was there because she loves it so much that she won't let him have it. And like this blanket is just so good. I cannot overstate that. Even now that the weather is warming up, I still lay under it every single day. It is my favorite thing.

[Olivia Mentor]

Sometimes I just walk past it and like pet it. Oh, she's weird. But it's just very soothing.

[Becca Freeman]

Ruby loves it. Does Winnie love it?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, she does. Cozy Earth also has like generally great bedding, from sheets to blankets and more. And you really know that Cozy Earth is the real deal because they have a 100 night sleep trial and a 10 year warranty on all bedding products. So you can really just make sure that you love them and get the most value out of them. And that is just how much Cozy Earth believes in their products. Luxury shouldn't be out of reach. Use code BOP for 40 off best selling sheets, pajamas and more. Trust us, you won't regret it.

[Becca Freeman]

All right, Olivia, what have you brought?

[Olivia Mentor]

I have brought a piece of cultural commentary that's been weighing heavily on my heart for many years now.

[Becca Freeman]

Wow.

[Olivia Mentor]

And I've needed a platform to talk about it. Here it is probably not what you expect. Okay, so I have this theory that the Today show. The Today show main cast, we're talking Al, Savannah, Jenna, they serve as a sort of extended family for a lot of the boomer generation. Absolutely.

[Becca Freeman]

I don't think this is controversial at.

[Olivia Mentor]

All, but I just. I need to talk about it because every time I go, I hang out with my parents, we, like, talk on the phone. The frequency with which Al Roker is brought into conversation, just randomly. Like, so did you see Al is doing this? Did you see Savannah? What do you think is really going on with Hoda? Where's Chanel been? Then I go see my aunt. She's like, have you noticed Chanel has been gone for months? Like, but it's as if we're talking about my actual aunts and uncles that we all have personal relationships to. She's like, did you notice this? What do you think of Savannah's new hair? Like, do you think they're doing well? Did you see that they did this? Like, I need to know if anyone else experiences. Did your mom. Did your aunt, like, did they watch the Today show every morning as well?

[Becca Freeman]

No, no, no.

[Olivia Mentor]

Did they still have, like, a relationship with them?

[Becca Freeman]

No, no. But I do remember that with Katie Couric.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. Right.

[Becca Freeman]

I mean, she was originally with Matt Lauer on the Today show, but then she went on to have. What did she Host? Was it 2020?

[Olivia Mentor]

She hosted the Nightly news for a while.

[Becca Freeman]

The Nightly News?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

We were nightly news people. We were not morning news people.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay. We were both. And I actually did watch the Today show most mornings when I, like, got ready for work. When I lived in the city. I was on the Today show at one point. Did you know this?

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

As a model.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I do know that.

[Olivia Mentor]

As like, a real person model. Not a model, but, gosh, was that thrilling. I think my parents have maybe never been more proud. And I was just standing in a sundress next to Hoda and Kathie Lee, so it was a big deal.

[Becca Freeman]

I think it's almost like some of the first parasocial relationships before social media existed. Is the Today showcast, news anchors, et cetera?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes.

[Becca Freeman]

And especially with the fourth hour, especially with, you know, Hoda and Jenna with Kathie Lee and Hoda. Like, I feel like, because it's so lifestyle y and they talk about their families and their lives more so than earlier segments where it is more focused on, you know, news stories or it's less host centric, maybe.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, this is it. The Today show main cast are the Influencers for boomers. Like, this is who they care about. This is who they're invested in. I actually fear for what will happen. I hope Al Roker lives forever. For the record, you can quote me on that. But I am worried about my parents.

[Becca Freeman]

When Al Roker passes, feature himself on the Smuckers. Like the. You know, when they feature the people who turn 100. I hope he's still hosting it. And he's like, and me, I cannot.

[Olivia Mentor]

Tell you the amount of times I've walked into, like, an extended family gathering with lots of my aunts and uncles. And, like, people have been like, do you think Dylan is really ready to take over for Al? And I'm like, these are just people on T. This isn't like our actual family guys. But the frequency with which they come up, I just. It's something. It's weighs heavily on my mind. I've told my parents, like, I haven't watched the Today show regularly in seven to 10 years, and yet still we talk about them as if we're BFFs.

[Becca Freeman]

Have you watched the Morning show, the TV show on Apple TV?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. Only the first two seasons, but I loved it.

[Becca Freeman]

It's just such an interesting dynamic.

[Olivia Mentor]

It is. And, you know, there's, like, layers of drama going on. So I do understand the we know them, but we don't feeling.

[Becca Freeman]

I don't know if that's, like, ripped from the headlines the same way that succession was basically just the Murdoch family drama, but, you know, there is the Matt Lauer, Steve Carell thing. So, you know, they're definitely using some of it. But I guess what surprises me, or I find so interesting about the Apple TV show is how much business machinations and how much, like, corporate intrigue there is versus, you know, these people seem so wholesome and so nice and personable, versus, you know, like, they're really scheming behind the scenes. And so I wonder how much of that is true.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. And, like, their whole brand has to be, like, just your aunt, your friend that you go to mahjong with, whatever. And so, I don't know. You don't get to see. Of course, they're not talking about, like, oh, so and so wanted this job. They wanted that job. And. But, you know, that's all happening. You know, there is.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm very curious, who is going to replace Hoda full time because they've just been doing Jenna and Friends.

[Olivia Mentor]

Right.

[Becca Freeman]

And so it's the rotating cast of hosts, which, honestly, must be very stressful because she needs to get a new host. Up to speed every week and needs to like, show them the ropes, break them in or sometimes like they did guys week and it was a different host every day. So that must be really stressful for her. And I'm very curious to see where they land for the permanent host.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, well, I mean, I'll be talking to Kim and Bruce about it extensively.

[Becca Freeman]

So let me know if Kim has any predictions because I also feel like the type of people that they're bringing in are much more high powered celebrities than they would actually get to become a full time. A full time host. Like, I don't think Scarlett Johansson is going to give up her acting career to become a host of the Today show.

[Olivia Mentor]

I saw a clip with Tyra Banks. That's someone who I feel like could actually.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, interesting.

[Olivia Mentor]

I mean, I don't think it will be Tyra Banks. It's just she's the type of personality where she's hosted a show in the past. I don't know what else she's doing. I'm sure she's doing lots of cool things. I know she has an ice cream brand randomly, but didn't know any of that. You know, we'll see. It's going to be the talk of the family reunion in a couple weeks here.

[Becca Freeman]

So I also report back, wonder at what point they'll bring in somebody younger. Because you're right that the boomer demographic is definitely like probably their core audience, I would guess. But at some point, do they bring somebody younger onto the show?

[Olivia Mentor]

I mean, Jenna's only in her early mid-40s. Like, that's pretty.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm talking. I'm talking. Tick tock.

[Olivia Mentor]

You're talking like, I don't know. Because I don't think they have any hope of capturing a Gen Z audience. Do you?

[Becca Freeman]

I don't know.

[Olivia Mentor]

I mean, I don't even think. Do you know any? Like, you're millennial.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Both millennials.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

Do you know any millennials who.

[Becca Freeman]

My friend Jess watched the Today show. My friend Jess every day.

[Olivia Mentor]

I did at one point. But I guess there's people out there who've been indoctrinated.

[Becca Freeman]

I wonder too how their demographics maybe have changed since COVID where now it's much more normalized to work from home. Because I am definitely a deep silence person when I work. Like, I don't want music, I don't want anything. But I do know people who like a background soundtrack of kind of like something they're not paying attention to. And so, you know, I feel like a natural thing because you don't want, like, the stress of cnn, so, you know, like, maybe it is you put on the Today show, et cetera.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, I'll be interesting to see how it evolves. I'm a Jenna fan, though. I like Jenna.

[Becca Freeman]

I do, too. I do too. And I also think that she has the most consistent track record with her book club of picking things that become hits that aren't necessarily. Like, we haven't talked about this, but Rhys picked Great Big Beautiful Life by Emily Henry for her May book club, and it was like, that book was already gonna be huge versus. I feel like Jenna tends to pick books that are by debut authors, breakout authors that aren't already huge for the most part. She definitely has some. I know she did, like, randomly the Secret History, which is also not a new book a few years ago, but, like, you know, I feel like, in general, she does really break out talent, and I feel like she has a really good picker for what that is. And she also has a team of people who are screening too. There's a fascinating episode of Ellen Hildebrand's podcast, Book Speech and Beyond, where they interview Jenna Bush Hager, and they talk about how books get selected for her book club, which I thought was fascinating. But, yeah, I respect Jenna in general, but I also really respect her as a reader in her book taste.

[Olivia Mentor]

I 100% agree. Like, I will buy books because they are Jenna's book club picks because I will probably like them. Actually, we haven't talked about this, but my mom and I are going to the book festival she's hosting in Nashville.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay. I saw that you were asking for recommendations in Nashville, and I was wondering if that was what it was.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. So my mom texted me the morning it was announced. She probably saw it live on air, and she was like, should we go to this? And I was like, I don't know. It's. It is wildly expensive. I saw. But I was like, I don't know. There's food and drinks. You think of it like a day at Disney World, which is this. It's essentially like my Disney World. You factor in three meals and, like, it's not. I mean, it's still way too expensive. And I think, like, to a prohibitive degree. Like, I wish it was more accessible to more people.

[Becca Freeman]

When they first announced, it was very light on details because I went to the website to see what it entailed, and it was, like, featuring maybe some of these people.

[Olivia Mentor]

Also, it's five weeks from now, so. But no, my mom and I are Doing like a girls trip. I wasn't sure like, what to get for Mother's Day, so we're like splitting the cost and stuff and.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to hear. You have to promise me that for our three things right after that, that you will give us like the full download.

[Olivia Mentor]

I will. I was like, amity Gage is actually going to think I'm stalking her.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, she is.

[Olivia Mentor]

She's one of the people. And I'm like, gonna have to be like. Just so you know, my mom really wanted to go to this and like, I love books. That's why I'm here. Anyway, I'm really curious to see how it is.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, I'm so glad you're going. I can't wait to hear.

[Olivia Mentor]

And there's lots of great authors, like so many authors I love. I think Allison Sbach's gonna be there.

[Becca Freeman]

She is. Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm gonna read all my books fangirl, non stop. Oh, so excited.

[Becca Freeman]

I'm jealous.

[Olivia Mentor]

Anyway, more soon on that.

[Becca Freeman]

All right, last things.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, so for my final thing, I want to talk about morning and evening routines, specifically with regards to like, sleep habits. Like, not like your beauty routine, whatever. I want to talk about your like bedtime and wake up routine. So. Okay. The background on this is I was just in Maine. My friend Molly works for a European company. So for the most part she is working and on calls by 7am and so she goes to bed much earlier. And so, you know, she's usually getting in bed around 9, 9:30, asleep by 10. And so I kind of just followed her schedule while I was up in Maine. And so I was going to bed at 9:30 or 10, and then I was waking up naturally at like 6:30, 6:45. And I felt great. And I was like, wow, do I need to just totally change my sleep schedule to be going to bed much earlier so that I'm waking up naturally much earlier? And of course I looked at my schedule and I have evening plans every night this week, so I don't know that's imminently happening, but I wanted to know what yours is and if you have a. Specifically, I wanna know if you have like a set bedtime routine.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay, interesting question. As I've come off of two very unroutine days.

[Becca Freeman]

Yes.

[Olivia Mentor]

But I feel the best when I am getting ready for bed by 8:30, in bed by 9.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

Then I read for, I would say probably 30 minutes to an hour.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

I wake up naturally, no alarm between 6:30 and 7.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

That's my sweet spot. But it gets.

[Becca Freeman]

And how often are you.

[Olivia Mentor]

I only probably manage that like half the time.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, but I mean in terms of like a routine, I usually, you know, brush, floss, wash my face, put on moisturizer, get in bed, turn on my white noise machine. I'm out and I read and I'm out.

[Becca Freeman]

I would say on average I'm probably going to sleep around 11 and then I'm usually setting an alarm for like 7:20 or 7:40. And sometimes I go to bed even later. And sometimes I'll go to bed at like 10:30, but that's really the earliest. But I'll go to bed. And the other thing is that I don't do anything in bed. I don't have a TV in my bedroom, I don't read in bed. And maybe that's what I need to switch is I need to read in bed. So like I'm on the couch until it's time to go to sleep. The only thing I do in bed is scroll.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, that's so interesting because like I can't imagine not reading in bed.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, I don't read in bed because I tend to be and it depends obviously what I'm reading sometimes if I'm reading in bed, I'm like the one more chapter person into infinity then I'm never going to sleep.

[Olivia Mentor]

See I. My eyes start closing at a certain point and then I like can't. Also usually my phone is dead as we've discussed. So I have. They don't have the option of scrolling which is great. But that's also like a benefit of I just can trust that I will wake up at a certain time and I don't have to have an alarm. So.

[Becca Freeman]

Because that makes such a huge difference too. Like when I'm waking up naturally, I was noticing that I find myself as somebody who takes time to boot up in the morning, but I think that I take less time in the morning if I've woken up naturally versus if I've woken up via an alarm.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, I also like when I taught that class, I had to be up at like 4:45 every morning. I am so nervous that the alarm won't go off or I won't wake up, that I wake up every hour on the hour. Like it's just the worst feeling in the world. But you know, having friends is really the enemy of the sleep schedule because I have no self control. And so like we have a Wednesday happy hour that we usually go to and it's like okay, then I get home at 9:30 and then the whole schedule is shifted, you know, and then randomly you have a party where you're awake till three and then the whole schedule shifted for a week. Like I don't know, I'm learning how to have friends and be functional. Teach me your ways.

[Becca Freeman]

Well, I mean my way is that I go to bed late.

[Olivia Mentor]

So you wake up at 8?

[Becca Freeman]

No, I usually wake up on weekdays when I set an alarm. I usually set an alarm like 7:20, 7:40. I don't know why I don't do 7:30, but I don't. I, I like it. I only set it on the 20 and the 40. Even numbers is usually when I set an alarm.

[Olivia Mentor]

Jake has an alarm for 5:45 every morning. And if that didn't go off on Sunday morning after the party, it did. It was going. I was like, what is wrong with you? Turn it off for Christ's sake.

[Becca Freeman]

So I'm looking at my calendar and I don't see myself getting into a 9:30 bedtime in the next two weeks. But after that I want to try this. I also, I feel like recently I've been having so many plans during the week and then really few plans on weekend nights and maybe I need to like flip flop that be less available on weekdays.

[Olivia Mentor]

That's smart. But then like Jake and I were talking about, we're like what we do differently with the party. I'm like, well we could do it on a Friday. So then we have multiple days to.

[Becca Freeman]

Recover but then take out Friday from.

[Olivia Mentor]

Exactly. Because there's like so much prep to do of like just getting things ready. But maybe if we were like a more well oiled machine at a party house.

[Becca Freeman]

How many parties are you planning on having?

[Olivia Mentor]

I don't know, it's sort of, it's, there's an addictive nature to it.

[Becca Freeman]

Pillar of the community. Can't wait for that sweatshirt.

[Olivia Mentor]

I was really like brainwashed by the person who came to our house one time. I can't even remember why. He was taking photos for Historical Society and he said, you know, the house is happiest when it's filled with people. Because like the previous owner had parties constantly. And I just been thinking about that for like a year now. I was like, the house is happy.

[Becca Freeman]

The house demands it.

[Olivia Mentor]

I was like, we must have parties, Jake. We must.

[Becca Freeman]

The house is unhappy with us. The ghosts are unhappy.

[Olivia Mentor]

No, but like financially it's not really the best move.

[Becca Freeman]

Expensive to throw party.

[Olivia Mentor]

Quite expensive. So. So we're just going to iterate on it. We're going to iterate on it, but I want to have another one before it gets too hot.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, wow.

[Olivia Mentor]

This has been the party episode.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, tell me your last wing.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, my last thing is actually party related sort of all the time. Olivia, look at me go. Kesha, bad bunny. Also, tiny bowls filled with snacks. So I really enjoyed the putting out the little snacks everywhere because I was like, people have to be eating if they're drinking this much. And so I just at the grocery store blacked out and bought a bunch of stuff and I was like, what do people usually like when they see it? They're like, oh, I love those, but I never have them. And so I had little bowls of nerd clusters everywhere.

[Becca Freeman]

And they were never had a nerd cluster.

[Olivia Mentor]

They're, you know, they're not actually my favorite because I feel like they burn off my taste buds. But text selling it, they're excellent. But people were like, I love that you have nerd clusters everywhere. And so I was wondering, like, if you went to a party and there were little bowls of snacks everywhere, hypothetically, what would you be excited to find in the little bowls that you don't have everywhere? Like I'm on a lollipop kick myself. So if I was like, you have lollipops, I'd be very excited. What would you like to see immediately?

[Becca Freeman]

Three things.

[Olivia Mentor]

Okay, within a. Three things.

[Becca Freeman]

Three things within a three things. First thing, I mean it's not that I don't have these, but I love olives. If you had and I want them to be pitted. Pitted olives of pretty much any variety. I'm going to. In like a toothpick situation, I'm going to be there.

[Olivia Mentor]

Got it.

[Becca Freeman]

Second thing, I think that Cape Cod potato chips taste better in Massachusetts and north. I think they taste and north. Yeah. Like, I think the distributor, they're coming from a different factory because in Maine they taste like in Massachusetts, but when I buy them in New York, they just don't taste as good. So Cape Cod potato chips, I'd have the regular ones, but I'm a salt and vinegar girl personally. And that would need to be. Not a little bowl. That would need to be quite a large bowl because big bowl. I really like salt and vinegar chips.

[Olivia Mentor]

I did have kettle cooked potato chips around. Not the hit that the candy was.

[Becca Freeman]

Weirdly, I don't know the other thing. And this is timely because we went to a brewery on Saturday and there was this like market across the street. And so we went to the market before and we just got, like, some snacks to eat while we were sitting outside. And do you know what they had that I haven't thought of in years? Muddy Buddies.

[Olivia Mentor]

What is a Muddy Buddy?

[Becca Freeman]

It's also called Puppy Chow, depending on where you grew up.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh. Oh, okay.

[Becca Freeman]

Yes.

[Olivia Mentor]

Puppy Chow.

[Becca Freeman]

So it's like the Chex with the peanut butter and the chocolate covered in powdered sugar.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yep. There was, like, one girl in college who could always make it and would just show up at a party with it. Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

Oh, no. It reminds me of, like, elementary school sleepovers as well. I would always have it.

[Olivia Mentor]

Oh, well, one and the same.

[Becca Freeman]

I lost my mind when they had Puppy Chow. I literally lost my mind. We got it. I, like, needed to take it away from myself because I was giving myself a stomachache. Cause I couldn't stop eating it. And then when I was leaving Maine, Mike was like, do you wanna take this? And I was like, yes. So I brought it back with me.

[Olivia Mentor]

That sounds great.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. So if you had that out. Although it's not a very good party snack because your fingers get dirty.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, that's tough. One of my friends for the party brought homemade Rice Krispie treats with Chex cereal in it and, like, brown butter. That was the first thing I ate in the morning. I was like, coffee and homemade Rice Krispie treat with brown butter.

[Becca Freeman]

So what would be your ideal spread around snacks for you to. As an eater, not as a host.

[Olivia Mentor]

I do love candy. Like, I love just having candy around. I find it fun.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

But also, you gotta balance that with salty. So kettle potato chips are great. I put pretzel sticks everywhere. I love a pretzel rod.

[Becca Freeman]

I feel like I get pretzels a lot less places. I don't know. Like, I feel like I used to eat more pretzels. Now I never have them. I'm like, every time I have a pretzel, I'm like, man, I forgot how good pretzels are.

[Olivia Mentor]

They're so good. We grew up and we used to have always in the pantry, those Snyder's brown cardboard boxes of the gigantic, like, rock hard, hard pretzels. Just, like, absolutely, like, chewing on rocks. But they make me feel so nostalgic. I don't even think they come in the box anymore. Probably.

[Becca Freeman]

I have no idea.

[Olivia Mentor]

Anyway, I love a pretzel. I get this in terms of a fancy snack. At this gourmet grocery store near us. They sell this plastic box with a handle. It's like a purse of nuts. It's like these roasted. They also have, like, corn nut like corn, corn, nuts and chickpeas and fava beans that are like roasted and. Oh my God, they're so good. It's like $30 for the purse of nuts.

[Becca Freeman]

Speaking of really expensive gourmet snacks, have you ever had the Torres truffle potato chips? Yes, I always put those out for parties. They're addictive.

[Olivia Mentor]

They're delicious. So good. Yeah, I love a potato chip in general and also this is tougher parties. I love a nacho cheese Dorito.

[Becca Freeman]

Again, like, fingers.

[Olivia Mentor]

I know. I just. I would figure it out if I was drunk enough. Anyway, little bowls of snacks, little bowls from Goodwill that are all different colors and patterns. Brings me lots of happiness to put the snacks in them.

[Becca Freeman]

You know what? One of us should have. I don't want to assign this to you. I would love to attend a chip and dip party where just everyone brings.

[Olivia Mentor]

A dip and a chip that, I mean, done.

[Becca Freeman]

Right?

[Olivia Mentor]

That sounds great.

[Becca Freeman]

Right?

[Olivia Mentor]

We kind of did that. Like, we just ordered pizza, but then we had a bunch of dips and vegetables. But I was like, that actually will be better because then I could assign dips to people or like, they could bring whatever dip they want.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah, you just gotta make sure that they like tell you in advance so you don't end up with like seven French onions.

[Olivia Mentor]

Not the worst thing that ever happened in the world. I do love an onion dip, but for variety's sake, that's a great idea.

[Becca Freeman]

Let's get into some n matter here.

[Olivia Mentor]

Let's.

[Becca Freeman]

What are you obsessed with?

[Olivia Mentor]

I am obsessed with. Have you seen this show called Four Seasons?

[Becca Freeman]

Yes. And I heard that it got panned everywhere. It got very bad reviews.

[Olivia Mentor]

I kind of get that.

[Becca Freeman]

And I love Tina Fey. Anytime Tina Fey is in something, I get so excited. And I love her sense of humor. And I think she wrote it or co wrote it.

[Olivia Mentor]

I think so. I think so, yeah. I mean, the cast is excellent. So I turned it on because it just seemed like a really good hangover show. Like early in the morning, I wasn't quite ready for love after lockup. So I was like, let's start here. And honestly, like, I laughed so hard so many times. Like I laugh out loud, like just was cracking up throughout it. Like, is it a perfect show? No, not at all. But there are some funny moments. Like, so funny.

[Becca Freeman]

The other thing I read about it was that how the humor and like the experience is so tightly defined to people in their 50s. So are you secretly like a 50 year old in a 30 year old's body?

[Olivia Mentor]

I mean, in many Ways, Yes. Completely. Based on the amount of Tums I had to consume this weekend, Yes. I think I might be pushing 60, actually. But, no. I mean, there were some parts that were just like. I just. I couldn't stop laughing. I have no idea. But I found it very funny.

[Becca Freeman]

I'll probably watch at least the first episode at some point, just, like, in the next week or so, just because I love Tina Fey. So I want to check it out at least once.

[Olivia Mentor]

An episode I had, like, I was laughing out loud, which I don't really do with a lot of TV anymore, it seems, so. I mean, it was probably helped by the fact that I, like, couldn't move, so I was kind of like a captive audience, literally. It was great for being exhausted and lazy on a Sunday.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, so speaking of laughing out loud, my obsession is, did you see the Forever 31 sketch from last weekend's SNL?

[Olivia Mentor]

Like, 10 seconds of it.

[Becca Freeman]

Okay.

[Olivia Mentor]

I just.

[Becca Freeman]

You need to watch the whole thing. I felt so called out. It's so funny making fun of the way that people in their 30s dress and, like, current fashion trends, where it's like, we have everything in, like, the bummer rainbow, and it's, like, beige, black, like navy.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, that sounds about right.

[Becca Freeman]

It's so. It's so true. Oh, my God. I thought it was so funny.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'll have to watch it. Is this related to the, like, Coachella outfit skit? Like, I keep seeing clips. They're different.

[Becca Freeman]

No, there's like a. There's one section of it where it's, like, Chloe Feynman. It's like, when you were in your 20s, like, you went out with, like, a debit card in your pocket, and now you have a giant purse. So, like, maybe. Yeah, that's what you're thinking of.

[Olivia Mentor]

Maybe. Yeah, it might be. I've seen it everywhere, so it might be, like, related. Yeah.

[Becca Freeman]

So funny. It's like, three minutes. So if you need a laugh.

[Olivia Mentor]

Well, what have you been reading?

[Becca Freeman]

Okay, so I didn't read that much in Maine, but I did read the Art of Vanishing by Morgan Pager, which comes out July 1st, and you already read this. And I thought it was so lovely and so original. Oh, my gosh. So the book is about a woman who is a janitor at an art museum, which is. I don't know if it's ever named, but it's supposed to be the Barnes foundation in Philly. And she learns that she can step inside the art, and she falls in love with the subject of one of the paintings, and they have this, like, really gorgeous courtship where they're traipsing through. They can go into the other paintings in the museum. So they're just, like, traipsing through the world of the museum as portrayed in the paintings. And it also really surprised me. I don't want to say there's, like, two kind of twists in it that I thought were very interesting, that I think it's best to go in not knowing. So I'm not going to, like, tell you, but it really surprised me. It was so lovely. And most of all, it just. It made me want to go to a museum and, like, really pay attention.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. It made me want to go back to the Barnes foundation, too, which is a wonderful place.

[Becca Freeman]

So that one's not out until July, but highly recommend. A pre order.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah. It also had me Googling a lot about art. I don't know if that. You did that after. I was like, I have to see exactly the painting in this book, and then I have to learn about the paint. Like, I went on a rabbit hole, which I always thought about it.

[Becca Freeman]

I honestly felt like I could picture it so clearly in my mind, and I have no idea if I'm right or not, that I didn't even feel compelled to Google it. Yeah.

[Olivia Mentor]

A compliment to Morgan for sure.

[Becca Freeman]

All right, what about you? What have you been reading?

[Olivia Mentor]

I read a few things. So I finished Ravishing by Ashani Surya, which comes out in November. I think this is about a woman who is sort of dealing with, like, very intense body dysmorphia for a few reasons. And she learns of this beauty company that has made this cream that you put it on your face and it changes your facial features. Anyway, it is a very smart commentary on the current. The current world we live in. And it's very dark, but I really enjoyed it. And it is out in November. It's kind of like thriller light. Like, it is a thriller and it's very dark, but, like, it's not like a whodunit.

[Becca Freeman]

Yeah. It's not like. It's not scary. Like there's a murderer chasing you.

[Olivia Mentor]

Right.

[Becca Freeman]

This is my kind of thriller.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes.

[Becca Freeman]

The pace of a thriller. What's gonna happen? But not like the. Is somebody gonna break into my home?

[Olivia Mentor]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I also read the Return of Ellie Black by Emiko Jean, and this is a thriller that I've seen everywhere. It's blurbed by, like, Stephen King and every other amazing thriller writer you've ever heard of. I read this in literally. Yes. This came out some Last year, recently, but not like recent really recently. I heard nothing but good things about this. It's about a girl who goes missing and then she appears. She just like shows back up, but she won't talk about what happened to her. I read this in less than 24 hours, cover to cover. I wanted a thriller that was like incredibly fast paced, great writing. And it's heavy, of course, for obvious reasons, but like, if you just want to sit down, get lost in a book in a day. Done. Just check.

[Becca Freeman]

Wow, you had a great reading week.

[Olivia Mentor]

Yeah, and I have a couple other books I've been reading that I really love, including the Colony. So I can't wait to talk about that. But yeah, it's been good.

[Becca Freeman]

Speaking of books, I can't wait to talk about this month for our book club, we are reading Audition by Katie Kitamura, which is very hard to explain plot wise. The book is about a woman who's an actress, maybe in her late 40s or 50s, who is in rehearsals for a new play. And in the first scene she goes to lunch with this much younger man. And it is unclear what their relationship is to one another. And that relationship kind of is the crux of the book. And it shifts throughout the book, but thematically the book is very much about performance and how we perform roles. And for the main character, that's both as an actress, but it's also as a woman, a wife, a mother, a person of color. I found this book fascinating. I cannot wait to talk about it. Also, it's a very like weird literary conceptual book, but I found it very easy to read. Like it was gulpable. It's 208 pages. The writing is not super dense in a way that you have to read a sentence nine times. Like it was very readable. So I am very excited to talk to both you, Olivia and the listeners about this one.

[Olivia Mentor]

I'm excited too. Well, if you want to discuss any of this and we've talked about a lot. Wow, this is a long episode. But we love long episodes. You can join us in the Facebook group Under Bound Paper podcast or on our Geneva group, which is under Bound on Paper podcast as well, or on Instagram at Boundpaper Podcast. I am on Instagram and substack at.

[Becca Freeman]

Olivia Mentor and I am on Instagram @beccam Freeman and my newsletter is at becca freeman.substack.com and we will see you next week.

[Olivia Mentor]

Bye.