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Nic Stone on making the jump from YA to adult fiction - Bad On Paper | Wave AI Podcast Notes

Nic Stone on making the jump from YA to adult fiction

Wed Oct 15 2025

We’re so excited for you to hear our conversation with ! We chat with Nic about her author origin story, why she made the jump from YA to adult with her (very!) adult debut writing off her strip club visits for research, and more! ...

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Nic Stone on Making the Jump from YA to Adult Fiction"

Bad On Paper
Hosts: Becca Freeman & Olivia Muenter
Guest: Nic Stone
Date: October 15, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Becca and Olivia sit down with acclaimed author Nic Stone to discuss her transition from writing young adult (YA) fiction to releasing her debut adult novel, Boomtown—a genre-bending thriller set in an Atlanta strip club. The conversation delves into Nic’s creative process, the social themes explored in her new book, differences between publishing and promoting YA vs. adult fiction, and her desire to break stigmas around sex work.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Nic Stone’s Author Origin Story

Delayed Start in Writing:
- Nic didn’t always know she’d be a writer; she started writing at 27, despite always loving books and stories.
  - "I started writing when I was 27. I'm like, 40... But the more that I write, the more I realize I probably always wanted to." – Nic Stone [10:57]
YA as a Starting Point:
- She gravitated to children’s books because adolescence was a period she finally understood.
- She wrote the books she wished she’d had as a young girl.
Pivot to Adult Fiction:
- Recently, Nic recognized it was time for a new challenge.
  - "We are 39. We could totally do this for grownups too." [11:39]
- Ongoing bans of her YA books inspired her to write something unbannable:
  - "So I get banned a lot in the children's literature space. So this is my, like, big middle finger that's like, oh, okay, sure. Ban my books about kids. ... I'll just write about strippers... this won't be in high schools anyway..." – Nic Stone [12:08-12:16]

"Boomtown": Concept, Themes & Structure

Book Pitch:
- Boomtown = P. Valley meets Gone Girl.
  - "It follows an erotic dancer who decides to investigate after two of her colleagues go missing within, like, a year of each other." – Nic Stone [12:29]
- While marketed as a thriller, Nic emphasizes it has a literary bent and defies thriller conventions.
Personal Inspiration:
- Grew up with exposure to dancers through her dad (police officer handling dancer permits).
- Trained exotic dancers as a personal trainer.
Challenging Stigmas:
- The novel explores the humanity and complexity of sex workers, especially Black women.
  - "There's almost this notion that it's okay to dehumanize these women because of what they decide to do for a living. And I just think that's complete bullshit." – Nic Stone [14:02]
Social Commentary:
- Book inspired partly by the media’s uneven attention to missing persons (e.g., Gabby Petito vs. missing Black women).
- Themes of power, privilege, self-empowerment, and control over one’s body.

Transitioning from YA to Adult Fiction

Creative Process:
- Ideas percolate for years; each project gets its own composition notebook.
  - "I think about everything for a long time before I sit down and start writing." – Nic Stone [15:22]
Freedom & Learning Curve:
- Writing for adults means fewer restrictions (no need for tidy endings or curriculum suitability).
  - "I can just write for the sake of entertaining. Like, there doesn't have to be a lesson." [16:08]
- Learning to embrace an unrestricted, “grown” perspective in her writing.
Publishing Side:
- Although the adult novel is with a different publishing house, Nic is buoyed by support from her team and existing track record.
  - "It's okay if I'm debuting to them. I have a really solid team behind me who believes in me..." [19:04]

Research and Portrayal of Sex Work

Immersive Research:
- Visited strip clubs, interviewed dancers both on and off the job.
  - "Writing off my strip club visits was absolutely delightful. It's research. I was doing research." – Nic Stone [21:04]
- Found dancers open and eager to share their experiences—valued the nonjudgmental space.
Perspectives & Stereotypes:
- Sought to portray sex workers as empowered, multidimensional people rather than default victims.
  - "It was a lot of fun doing this research. Also really enlightening... women who use their bodies to make a living catch a really bad rap... For me, this is a book that is not only about power and privilege, but it's also about... Self empowerment and living in the body that belongs to you and taking ownership of that body in spite of circumstances that tell you you're not allowed to." [21:27-22:04]

Novel Structure & Writing Techniques

Multiple POVs & Nonlinear Timelines:
- The story unfolds through multiple perspectives (at least five), alternating between past (Lucky’s POV) and present (Lyric’s POV).
  - "I don't know how to write a straightforward book. I've never succeeded at it." – Nic Stone [24:46]
- Inspired by Jennifer Egan's A Visit from the Goon Squad.
- Nic is a meticulous outliner; she builds her novels like puzzles.
  - "Plot puzzles are my most favorite thing." [27:30]

Thematic Discussion: Compassion, Empathy, and Power

Women Making Hard Choices:
- At its core, Boomtown is about women doing the best they can with limited choices.
  - "Everyone that you meet is doing the best they can with what they have. ... all of these women, every single woman in this book has some kind of hardship..." – Nic Stone [31:16]
- Hopes the book fosters more empathetic readings of people’s lives beyond surface judgments.
Refusing Objectification:
- Men in club scenes are intentionally anonymous; focus is on the women’s agency and interiority.
  - "It is super important to me that when people read this book, they recognize that every single woman who makes a conscious decision to engage in sex work, she knows what she's doing, right?" – Nic Stone [36:54]
- Acknowledges the collaborative role of her editor and beta reader in ensuring the women’s empowerment rings true.

Additional Notable Discussions

Male Feminist Editor:
- Nic explicitly calls out and appreciates having a male editor who is a true feminist and supports Black culture.
  - "He's the goatist of goats." [38:07]
Breast Cancer Plotline:
- Explores issues often left unaddressed, including the intersection of sex work and health struggles like cancer.
  - "It just made sense for me as a writer to make sure it's clear that these women's lives are very complex... And that is at the core of the story." – Nic Stone [40:26-41:37]
Teens Reading Adult Books:
- Nic predicts Boomtown may find an audience with teen girls, citing her own experience "reading up" as a teenager.
Marketing and Audience Differences:
- Marketing adult fiction feels “boxless”—more spontaneous and wide-ranging, compared to targeted school-gatekeeper marketing for YA.
  - "There's just. There's no, like, rails. ... I'm like, what is this? So we're just, we're going to see how this goes. I don't know." – Nic Stone [46:01]
Audiobook:
- Features a full cast of five narrators, including Nic herself (whose POV remains a spoiler).
  - "I do one of the POVs." [48:24]
Future Projects:
- More adult and children's books forthcoming; sees this as "expansion" not "transition."
  - "The next adult book is 2027 and there will be another adult thriller. Ready? Thrillerary. It's like a thrillerary novel." – Nic Stone [49:06]

Memorable Quotes

On Breaking Stigma:
- "There's almost this notion that it's okay to dehumanize these women because of what they decide to do for a living. And I just think that's complete bullshit." – Nic Stone [14:02]
On Creative Process:
- "Plot puzzles are my most favorite thing... That part of the creative process when it comes to writing is my absolute favorite...when, like, something clicks and you're like, that's it." – Nic Stone [27:30]
On Empowerment:
- "What we can control is how we think about things, the stories we tell ourselves about things." – Nic Stone [36:54]
On Audience:
- "I do think that there will be some high school kids, some girls specifically who are, who get really into this. Like I just have a hunch about it and I kind of hope it happens just because I want people to read what they want to read." – Nic Stone [43:10]
On Making Up Words (about 'thrillerary'):
- "Thriller but it's literary—thrillerary." – Nic Stone [49:30]

Important Timestamps

Nic’s Author Story: [10:57–12:16]
Boomtown’s Inspiration & Pitch: [12:29–15:00]
Switching to Adult Fiction: [15:22–16:43]
Publishing/Marketing Differences: [17:09–19:04] / [46:01–47:51]
Researching Strip Club Life: [21:04–24:19]
Narrative Structure: [24:46–28:46]
Themes of Choice & Empathy: [31:16–33:52]
Portraying Power in the Club: [34:57–37:50]
Breast Cancer Storyline: [38:29–42:03]
Teen vs Adult Readership: [42:42–45:36]
Audiobook Details: [48:24–48:44]
What’s Next for Nic: [49:06–49:31]

Notable Moments

Nic’s playful yet passionate calling out of book bans and stigmas.
The candid look into both the business and emotional side of changing literary genres.
Honest discussion about the realities and perceptions of sex work in fiction and in society.
Nic’s collaboration with a feminist male editor.
Introduction of the "thrillerary" genre term.

Conclusion

This episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at both the thematic depth and the industry realities of making the leap from YA to adult fiction. Nic Stone shares not only her creative journey with Boomtown but also the threads of empowerment and resistance that run through her work—and her life. The conversation is packed with candid, funny, and insightful moments for readers and aspiring writers alike.

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Transcript

A (0:18)

Hi, everyone, and welcome to Bad on Paper podcast. I'm Olivia Mentor.

B (0:21)

And I'm Becca Freeman.

A (0:23)

And today we have a really fun, fun interview.

B (0:26)

Yeah, we're talking to Nic Stone, who is a very acclaimed YA author who just made her adult debut. The book came out yesterday. It's called Boomtown. It is a thriller set in an Atlanta strip club. And we talked to her about making the switch from YA to adult. The premise for this book and the thematic and social commentary within this book and what it has to say about race and about women and especially about sex workers. So very interesting conversation ahead. But before we get into that, Olivia, tell me your high.

A (1:08)

My high and my low are one and the same, and that is that I am very busy. I am like, my days are packed. I am fully focused at my desk all day long. And it's one of those feelings where I'm like, I wish I maybe had a little less to do, but I also feel really, like, satisfied at the end of every day. And I feel like I'm making good progress and all my different projects and. And so, yeah, it's just this, like, I wish I was maybe completing everything.

C (1:40)

On my to do list every day.

A (1:41)

You know, but it's still good. It's still good. It's like the. The nicest iteration of my career, I guess. It's been nice and it's been a little bit tiring.

B (1:52)

What is keeping you so busy at your desk if you feel comfortable sharing?

A (1:57)

Well, I have the retreat coming up, which I'm really excited about. So there's a lot of little things, and I had a call with the hotel this past week, just planning menus, figuring out gift bags, that kind of stuff, ordering stuff. So there's that kind of little stuff. There's little podcast stuff here and there's. There's substack stuff. But the main thing is just managing all of the behind the scenes kind of promotional stuff that go into launching a book. So, like, gathering addresses from people and figuring out who I want to send the book to and sending notes to those people, pitching essays, places, writing those essays. I had to write a letter to, like, the booksellers that goes out with the book, I guess, this week. And that's sort of like another essay. So just like a lots of little things in. In that world. And then also constantly thinking about how can I promote the book? How can I do it in a way that's fun and interesting and authentic and still gets people to pre order the book? And then the biggest thing is that I'm really working on making significant progress on book three. And it's just the type of deep thinking work that we've talked about before where all my focus is in single chapters, single paragraphs, moving things around, trying to get things just right to make it as strong as it can possibly be. And I mean, that kind of work. Like, I could just spend eight hours doing just that. But. But I have other things to do. So it's just a balance of all of that. I'm happy and. And lucky to have to balance all of that. I've balanced other things I didn't want to balance before. So I'm trying to remember that.

C (12:29)

So Boomtown is. There's a TV show called P. Valley that's about a strip club in Mississippi, and everybody knows Gillian Flynn's Gone Girl. So it's P. Valley meets Gone Girl, and it follows an erotic dancer who decides to investigate after two of her colleagues go missing within, like, a year of each other. And, you know, I really tackle a lot in this book. It's wild because my editor and I have been talking a lot about how it gets pitched as a thriller, but it's not like a classic thriller at all. It has the pacing, but it doesn't have the kind of formulaic beats, right? So, like, the beauty of genre when it comes to fiction is that if something falls into genre, it follows a very specific formula, if you will. And this does not. It's actually. It's got more of a literary bent, interestingly enough. So I was really interested in a couple of things. First, when I was a little girl, my father was a police officer, and he was in charge of the permits unit in the county where he lived, which meant that he was the person who had to fingerprint and permit all of the erotic dancers in this particular county. So when I would go to the. I'd be at the station with my dad and all of these, like, really hot women, you know, all I'm seeing is this, like, beautiful woman who looks like a Barbie because her boobs probably aren't real. And they have these, like, itty bitty waist. And they just. They just were fascinating beings to me. And they were always so sweet to me. Right? So I get older, I find out what they were there for. And then in my early 20s, I was a personal trainer. And when I was a personal trainer, I had two clients who were erotic dancers. One of them's name was Lyric. And Lyric just really left an impression on me because, you know, I feel like sex workers in general and specifically erotic dancers get this really weird kind of stigmatized rap that is completely unwarranted. And there's almost this notion that it's okay to dehumanize these women because of what they decide to do for a living. And I just think that's complete bullshit. So when I decided I was gonna sit down and write this book, it was around the time that Gabby Petito went missing. And, like, everybody was, like, up in arms about it. And I just. I got to thinking about the number of black women who go missing and nobody looks for them. So it was like a bunch of things colliding at the same time. But it was a blast to write, truly.

C (34:57)

Yeah, look, I will first admit it took a minute to get there. Right. This book helped to uncover a lot of internalized misogyny, to be completely honest. And it also helped me to uncover a lot of things that I thought I had to deal with or, like, women have to deal with that we don't actually have to deal with. Like, there's a level of empowerment that women are discouraged from embodying by individuals who would prefer for the status quo to remain as it is. And it took some work for me to push past a lot of the messaging that I got even as, like, a queer black woman. Like, don't be too loud. Don't be too angry. Don't feel yourself too much. Like, there are so many things that I had to rework and rethink through. And so, like, shout out number one to my editor, Yadan Israel, at Simon and Schuster. He really, really put. Pushed me to dig really deep, get rid of all of the stuff that would put the women in any sort of position where they were not in control of themselves and of their mindsets. And he pushed me to really clean that stuff up. And then I had an Incredible beta reader, Dr. Chanel Craft Tanner. She's, like, the head of the women's studies department at the University of Virginia. And so this was a super collaborative process. And having them kind of like, we all had these different things in mind, bringing them all together. We were able to create this thing where it is super important to me that when people read this book, they recognize that every single woman who makes a conscious decision to engage in sex work, she knows what she's doing, right? To an extent. Like, yes, obviously, there are exceptions to every rule. But, like, most women who decide that they are going to do a specific thing, they're deciding that they're going to do it. I'm not talking about women who are being trafficked. I'm not talking about. There's a whole other sector of sex workers who are not sex workers. They are victims of sexual assaults, victims of sex trafficking. That's a whole other sector. I'm talking about the women who are like, I need to make some money for college. I'm a go dance they have a different way of moving, a different way of thinking about things. And I want people to recognize that at the end of the day, though, things happen to us that we are completely not in control of. What we can control is how we think about things, the stories we tell ourselves about things. And my hope is that as people read Lyric Lucky and Charmed's story, they will feel empowered in that and they will recognize that, like, oh, yeah, these women are in this space, but that doesn't make them victims automatically. Do they get victimized? Yes. Would they identify as a victim? Absolutely not. They're not going to just hand their power over. And that is something that's super important.