Bad on Paper Podcast: "So Old, So Young" Book Club Episode Date: March 25, 2026 Hosts: Becca Freeman & Olivia Muenter

Episode Overview

In this March book club episode, Becca and Olivia discuss So Old, So Young by Grant Gender—a novel that follows six friends across two decades, exploring friendship, adulthood, and all the messiness in between. The conversation dives deep into the book’s structure, its realistic portrayal of relationships, life milestones, friend group dynamics, and unforgettable party scenes, with both hosts sharing how the novel mirrors and differs from their own experiences.

Highs and Lows (00:29–09:35)

Olivia’s High (00:38)

• Spontaneous solo road trip after a book event in Portland, Maine; visited several bookstores, treated herself for her birthday.
• "I haven't done, like, a spontaneous road trip maybe ever. I am a big planner...but I just kind of let myself do whatever I wanted." (01:19, Olivia)
• Birthday was low-key: antiques, book shopping, cake, TV.

Bookstore Haul (02:51)

• Bat Cove Books: So Old, So Young
• Lupin Books: Strangers (Bell Burden), Good People (Patmina Sabit)
• Perkins Cove Books: Maine (J. Courtney Sullivan)
• Barnes & Noble: Wait for Me (Amy Jo Burns), In Her Defence (per Grace’s rec)

Becca’s High (04:04)

• Boston trip to see her friend's kids and celebrate a friend's 40th birthday.
• "Easy to get to Boston...got to hang out with my friend's kids all day and it was so, so fun." (04:45, Becca)

Discussing Shifting Friend Dynamics (05:20)

• Olivia notes how the book made her reflect on her own friend group, especially as friends start having kids.
• "I feel like you just...do it well, caring about other people's kids is what I'm trying to say." (05:20, Olivia)
• Becca: "That was one of the dynamics that...most drew me to this book." (05:30, Becca)

Lows (05:34)

• Olivia: “No real lows,” just the weather.
• Becca: Anxiety about starting her third book; writer’s block and fear of beginning.
• "I'm not on the road, but I'm, like, in the car in the driveway..." (08:42, Becca)

“So Old, So Young” Book Discussion

Book Overview (10:53)

• The novel follows six friends from college through five parties over 20 years.
• Takes place at pivotal gatherings and charts changes: love, marriage, children, addiction, and loss.

First Impressions (11:26)

• Olivia: Loved the book, thought it was "so readable" despite many characters. Found them messy but deeply real.
• "I both liked and disliked pretty much all of them in some way." (11:26, Olivia)
• Becca: “Everyone felt really real...believable.” (12:01, Becca)

Standout Scenes (12:07)

• The Halloween party—tension and foreshadowing amid a slow-motion personal disaster.

Thematic Breadth and Relationship Spectrum (12:19)

• Marriage, divorce, having children, not having children, death, addiction, and affairs.
• "You got such a smorgasbord of issues." (12:19, Becca)

Personal Connection to the Book (13:08)

• Becca: Relatable, familiar, especially the dynamic between friends who have kids and those who don't.
• Appreciated the nuanced, evenhanded portrayal of these dynamics (Sasha/Mia) without a clear "right" side.
• "I know these people...I've been to these parties." (13:08, Becca)
• Olivia: Noted how the millennial experience differs from older generations.

Honesty About Friendship (14:41)

• Book explores things left unsaid even in close friendships.
• Olivia: “There are things that are both people are thinking, but it's...too sensitive...too honest. I appreciated that he put it all out there.”
• Becca: "That's also what makes this book so dramatic." (15:23)

Book Structure and Craft (15:55)

Party as a Narrative Device

• Only see the friends at five parties spanning 20 years—snapshots, not a continuous story.
• Olivia: Found initial jump from party to party “a little hard,” but subsequent parties built more depth and payoff.
• Becca: Admired the author’s skill at “weaving backstory in...no info dumping.”

Writing Process Insights (18:47)

• Grant Gender rewrote the novel many times; “zero words from his first draft ended up in the final draft.” (18:20, Becca)
• Olivia: Surprised, as the finished prose feels “so easy and it flows so well.” (18:47, Olivia)

If Your Life Were Five Parties... (19:22–32:26)

Olivia’s Five (Funny, Poignant, Personal)

1. College frat party (drinking, solo cups as shoes, unrequited crush).
2. 20th birthday abroad (“vodka gummy bears” with cactus liquor).
3. Girls’ trip post-college, which took on meaning after a friend’s sudden passing.
4. The funeral—“string of social gatherings that are very weird.”
5. Pandemic wedding; most friends absent. “Encapsulated everything about who I was...what the world was like.” (24:44, Olivia)

Becca’s Five

1. Boston New Year’s party—messy, “crying at parties” era, iconic recaps.
2. Beta Breakers party in San Francisco: “make new friends, keep the old” era.
3. New York City work party (at BaubleBar). “Everyone being so ambitious...ambitious, glamorous.” (29:42, Becca)
4. COVID Zoom happy hour: “It was fun, and then you realize: this isn’t really fun.” (30:33)
5. Book launch for The Christmas Orphans Club: “I felt so loved...really important as entering a different era of my career.” (31:14)

Friend Group Dynamics & Character Points of View (32:26–43:15)

Which Characters Resonate?

• Olivia gravitates toward Mia, drawn to her nuance, uncertain choices.
• Becca: Identifies with Mia and also found Richie’s chapters compelling—self-awareness after addiction, “richness in his interior monologue.”
• Discussion of Nina: Limited chapters but “so much empathy” due to vulnerability and social anxiety.

Author’s Intent (35:12)

• Grant Gender: “I created a friend group made up of six people, all of which were versions of various neuroses of mine..." (35:18)
• Both hosts note how relatable and distinct the characters are.

Real-Life Friend Group Comparisons (37:24)

• Becca: Maintains same group of friends from college: rare, “these relationships are...hard work.”
• Olivia: Smaller, more compartmentalized friend groups.
• Both reflect on the work, discomfort, and evolution in long-term friendships.

Friendships and Life Stages (41:15)

• Noted how kids, geography, and priorities shift things—sometimes uneasily.
• "You change, you want to change, but you don't want the friendship to change—and that's actually impossible in some ways." (38:49, Olivia)
• Mia/Sasha dynamic: tension between being left out and being overwhelmed with motherhood, neither side “right” or “wrong.”
• Hipha Palapu’s quote: “Friendships can be for a reason, a season, or a lifetime.” (41:59, Becca)

Portrayal of Friend & Romantic Breakups, Addiction, and Realism (47:11–53:14)

Friendship Breakups

• Becca discusses her own painful friend breakup and the lack of coverage in fiction and real life.
• Appreciates book’s “imperfect” handling—how things fester, perspective-bound misunderstandings.

Complicated Romantic Ties

• Olivia: “The way that complicated everything I found really interesting. Not necessarily relatable, but really well done.” (49:17)

Addiction Portrayal

• Richie’s arc seen as nuanced; recovery as nonlinear.
• “You’ll try again—and that's really it. That is recovery.” (50:54, Olivia)

Romantic Relationships: Real or Too Pessimistic?

• Both hosts agree the book's partnerships are “not all rainbows and butterflies”—with divorce/breakup maybe warranted.
• “None of these people belong together...we should be getting some more divorces in here.” (52:25, Becca)
• Olivia: “It felt real in a pessimistic kind of way.” (52:25)

Authenticity, Side Characters & Standout Scenes (53:14–57:24)

Cast of Side Characters (53:30)

• Reoccurring background faces add emotional realism and gossip to the group.

Goldfish Scene (54:03)

Memorable Quote (54:03–56:03, Becca)

• Becca shares Sasha’s Petco breakdown monologue as “a manifesto for modern motherhood...womanhood.”

“I have 85 people coming to my house in 90 minutes, half of whom are under the age of 12...” — Sasha (54:03–56:03, read by Becca)

Male Author, Female Characters

• Surprisingly authentic—Olivia questions if author has kids (he doesn’t), but praises both parenting and childfree perspectives.

Maintaining Long-Term Friendships as Lives Diverge (57:24–62:37)

• Acceptance of “ebbs and flows” is key (“sometimes it’s going to be quieter, they’re going to be busier...but we always have this bond.” 57:42, Olivia)
• Becca: “Sometimes, you have to travel, you have to do more of the work [to keep friendships alive].”
• Kids’ ages, life stages—everything changes, especially "under five."

Unpacking the Plot Device: Who Died? (62:37–64:33)

• The book starts with the knowledge that one friend has died, a device that threads suspense.
• Both hosts say it wasn’t the driving force for reading; the answer (Adam) felt “so unfair, but honestly, that, that's life.” (64:14, Olivia)
• Adam’s kindness made his death more poignant.

The Ending & Multi-POV Craft (64:33–66:06)

• Both liked the ending; Becca: Appreciates how Adam’s death brings healing, but not perfection, to the group. “There was a strong sense of inevitability about it.” (64:43)
• Distinct character voices avoid confusion, even with a large cast.

Read-Alike Recommendations (66:06–68:52)

• The Celebrants by Steven Rowley (friendship over decades)
• The Interestings by Meg Wolitzer (art camp friends through adulthood)
• Olive by Emma Gannon (childfree/parent dynamics)
• One Star Romance by Laura Henkin (life milestones, friendship over time)

What Else Are They Reading? Obsessions & Recs (72:26–77:36)

Olivia’s “Obsessed With”

• Cora at Flo’s Hot Dog Stand (“Shout out to Cora. You are my obsession.” 72:12)
• Book rec: Good People by Patmina Sabeit ("Such a page turner…I absolutely loved this book." 73:58)

Becca’s “Obsessed With”

• Uptai Thai restaurant in Manhattan.

Currently Reading

• Becca: Pineapple Street by Jenny Jackson (Brooklyn family drama), Vacationland by Meg Mitchell Moore (“beach read but much more drama filled than frothy,” 77:24)
• April's book club pick: Good People by Patmina Sabeit.

Notable Quotes & Moments

On Characters’ Messiness:

“I both liked and disliked pretty much all of them in some way.” (11:26, Olivia)

On Millennial Friendship & Choices:

“I don't think I've seen [the having kids/not having kids dynamic] deeply explored in other books...I really liked that because it's something that I feel like I'm talking about so much with my day to day life.” (13:08, Becca)

On Writing Multi-POV:

“It just seems so easy and it flows so well. So it's strange to think that he had to work through draft and draft and draft...” (18:47, Olivia)

On Maintaining Friendships:

“Some people aren't good with texting...as our lives get busier...it becomes more complicated. But understanding what is important to your friends in that moment…is just what's most important.” (57:42, Olivia)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Highs & Lows: 00:29–09:35
• Book Overview & First Impressions: 10:53–13:08
• Relationship Dynamics Explored: 12:19–15:55
• Book Structure Discussion: 15:55–19:22
• Five Parties Game: 19:22–32:26
• Favorite Characters & Voice: 32:26–36:33
• Friendship in Real Life vs Fiction: 36:33–43:15
• Breakups, Addiction, and Relationships: 47:11–53:14
• Memorable Scenes (Goldfish Monologue): 54:03–56:03
• Long-Term Friendships as Adults: 57:24–62:37
• Who Died? Plot Device: 62:37–64:33
• Ending & Structure Praise: 64:33–66:06
• Read-Alike Recommendations: 66:06–68:52
• Obsession/Reading Picks: 72:26–77:36

Final Thoughts

Becca and Olivia enthusiastically recommend So Old, So Young for its authentic, dramatic, but never melodramatic, portrayal of adult friendships and life changes. They found it deeply relatable, whether or not you have a big friend group, as well as rich fodder for in-person book club conversation.

Next Book Club Pick: Good People by Patmina Sabeit

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