← Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Loading summary
Transcript85 lines
- [00:01]
Brad Milkey
Hey, it's Brad Milkey. This week on the Crime Scene Weekly, we're talking about a mom who gained national attention for faking her own kidnapping. Sherri Papini is back in the spotlight, but now she's changing her story and trying to change her custody arrangement with her kids. Listen to the latest from the case on the Crime Scene Weekly.
- [00:23]
Brian Buckmire
Hi, it's Brian Buckmire. For a second day, Cassie Ventura was on the stand in the trial of Sean Diddy Combs. For analysis of her testimony, we're going to bring you a show from ABC News Live called Burden of the Case Against Diddy. The show Streams weekdays at 5:30pm Eastern on ABC News Live. You can find it on Disney, Hulu or on most of your favorite streaming apps. Today you'll hear me on there with host Eva Pilgrim. Take a listen.
- [00:55]
Eva Pilgrim
Day three of testimony wrapping up in the federal racketeering and sex trafficking case against Sean Diddy Combs. Cassie Ventura, Sean Combs, former girlfriend and the prosecution's key witness, was back on the stand for a second day with more explicit testimony. She testified more about that now infamous 2016 incident at the hotel, describing the circumstances before, during and after Cassie saying Combs beat her as she tried to escape a freak off that turned violent. Prosecutors also introducing images they allege showed damage from a vase Combs threw at Cassie during that attack. She also testified the drug fueled sex parties eventually turned into pornography shoots with Combs setting up video equipment for blackmail recordings. Combs has pleaded not guilty to all charges. He faces life in prison if convicted. We have our team of reporters and analysts closely following the case from inside the courtroom. Plus, we're also doing a deep dive into some of the most searched topics related to this high profile trial and a warning that some of Cassie Ventura's testimony may be difficult for viewers to hear. We begin though with the latest from inside that courtroom. Our chief investigative correspondent Erin Katerski is outside the federal courthouse in lower Manhattan. Aaron Cassie Ventura recounted explicit details of these alleged freak offs and the psychological impact. What more did we learn today?
- [02:24]
Erin Katerski
Cassie Ventura, Eva broke down on the witness stand as she described how her abusive nearly 11 year relationship with Sean Combs left her drug addicted and psychologically damaged. She was made to participate, she said, in hundreds of freak offs, these sexual performances with male prostitutes while Sean Combs recorded them using the video, she said as leverage. And by the end of their relationship, she said she was suicidal. She was in trauma therapy, she was having episodes of ptsd. And she remembered for the jury just wanting Sean Combs to understand. She wrote down what she thought would be chapters of a book. She wanted him to read them to understand the pain he had caused. Eventually, she sued him and revealed today for the first time that they settled the lawsuit for $20 million.
- [03:17]
Eva Pilgrim
And what was the jury's reaction to what she was saying today?
- [03:23]
Erin Katerski
The jurors were quite moved. She recalled an instance toward the end of their relationship in 2018 when she alleged that Sean Combs raped her in her own apartment on the floor. She said it was quick and he lost the color in his eyes. His eyes went black. And she told him no. She told him she didn't want to. She said she didn't even know if he heard her. He just kept going until he finished and then simply left. It was the second to last time that she had seen them in the course of their nearly 11 year relationship. But the jury's most vivid reaction, Eva, came when they were shown explicit images from some of the videos that Cassie said she was made to record. There were seven images. One juror appeared to move his neck as if taken aback. Another juror raised an eyebrow. Another appeared to shake a head. Sean Combs wanted to see those images. He grabbed a binder that they were contained in, leaned over towards his attorney to flip through them.
- [04:31]
Eva Pilgrim
Goodness. The details of all of this trial are very graphic. Combs family is in this courtroom listening to it all. Cassie's husband is there in court as well. How are the family members reacting to hearing this?
- [04:45]
Erin Katerski
Alex? Fine. Cassie Ventura's husband at one point just looked over at Sean Combs, seemed to glare at him when some of these explicit details come out. Other times, he doesn't even seem to acknowledge him in the courtroom, just looks straight at his wife as if to make sure she is okay. And notably today, Eva, after such graphic testimony from Cassie Ventura about a decade's worth of sexual activity, Sean Combs daughters were not here. There were fewer members of the Combs family here to support him. He interacted with them, mouths I love you, makes the same gestures he's made for the last couple of days. But some of this testimony clearly has been too much, especially for Combs daughters.
- [05:29]
Eva Pilgrim
One of the other things we heard Cassie tell the jury was about her brief relationship with hip hop star Kid Cudi. What did she say about that?
- [05:37]
Erin Katerski
This is an establishment of one of the acts of the racketeering conspiracy that prosecutors have alleged. It was 2011, and Cassie Ventura said she and Sean Combs were not in a good place. So she briefly began dating Kid Cudi. And said that at one point Sean Combs found out after they had a freak off because he saw her phone, saw some emails that she had written about Kid Cudi, and he became enraged about it and threatened at one point to blow up his car. And Cassie Ventura recalled Combs telling her that he wanted Kid Cudi's friends to be there to watch the car blow up. And one of the racketeering conspiracy acts that Sean Combs is accused of is arson.
- [06:22]
Eva Pilgrim
And we have to note here that Sean Combs lawyers say that he had nothing to do with that car bombing. Erin Katerski there at the courthouse for us, thank you so much for breaking this all down. And to continue with this, we bring in our ABC News legal contributor and trial attorney Brian Buckmire. You were also there in the courtroom again today. So tell me, what do you think of the prosecution? Are they making the link between what Cassie is saying there on the stand and the charges that Diddy is facing?
- [06:50]
Brian Buckmire
Absolutely, and they're beginning to do. So we're going to start off with that top charge of racketeering and just give you a legal definition. I'll break it down in simpler terms. Racketeering is basically when two or more people conspire to commit criminal acts in furtherance of that criminal enterprise. And so when I'm talking about the links, we hear about the criminal act that's funneled by the freak offs, the rape, the sexual assault, the videotaping, the threats of violence is also threats of humiliation, of putting out those videos if Cassie was to say anything. And then we kind of think about the criminal enterprise. Right. Today we heard about 13 different escorts and dancers that were hired from different states all across the country. Those are the people who are participating in the freak offs. And then we heard about some of the damage that comes from them and the harm that follows. As well as Cassie, when she took the stand, she pointed to a photo, not this one exactly, but one of that night where they're wearing the same dress and said after one of these brutal nights, she had a bruising on her right leg. And she was able to point out in court where she believed those bruises were. So the defenses definitely have their work cut out for them because the prosecution is making some strong arguments.
- [07:54]
Eva Pilgrim
Yeah. And the prosecutors also introduced, we heard Aaron just mention it, those explicit images of these freak offs Cassie's testifying, they happen in multiple states and residences. What's their strategy here with all this?
- [08:06]
Brian Buckmire
So again, going back to those escorts and dancers, they were from Las Vegas, Louisiana. Miami, New York. One of the major reasons why this is a federal case is because they're talking about crossing over state lines, that they themselves went to these different locations or hire these individuals to come to various locations both domestically and internationally to participate in these alleged freak offs. And that's where we get a lot of the racketeering and the sex trafficking by force, fraud or coercion. And of course, that last charge, the transportation to engage in prostitution.
- [08:37]
Eva Pilgrim
All right, so how do you think the defense is gonna counter the testimony that we've heard so far?
- [08:41]
Brian Buckmire
So an interesting thing that the defense is doing is they're trying to make a distinction between sex trafficking and domestic violence. They're saying that it is domestic violence. Sean Combs has done what Tenny Garrigo said in her opening statements, some indefensible things, but it's not this. It's not sex trafficking. And one of the things that they point at is that infamous video that we all saw. But they're looking at some of the raw footage and they're saying that when Sean Combs did this violent assault of Cassie, and they're not denying it, not denying the injuries, but instead he was doing it to get his cell phone. Now, Cassie testified on the stand that she believes that this is her cell phone. But the way the defense is articulating this is there was violence, there was domestic abuse, there might even been rape, but it was about jealousy, infidelity, and money. It wasn't about a criminal enterprise. It wasn't about trafficking. That's the argument that they're going to make when cross examination starts tomorrow of Cassie and going forward in this case.
- [09:33]
Eva Pilgrim
Brian Buckmire, thank you. We'll come back to you in just a bit. Cassie Ventura today again, as we said, detailing that alleged abuse, testifying Sean Combs turned the freak off videos into blackmail. Combs denies the federal charges, his defense claiming his violent acts are domestic violence, as Brian just said, but not evidence of sex trafficking and racketeering. But prosecutors have said the jury will hear a similar story from another alleged victim they're calling Jane. Let's bring in Maria Cruz Melendez, a former federal prosecutor who also served as one of the lead prosecutors in the case against R. Kelly. Maria, thank you so much for being here. Let's get right to this. What's the government trying to establish here with Cassie's testimony?
- [10:14]
Maria Cruz Melendez
Essentially, the government is trying to establish a pattern of abuse. And the reason this is important is because at the end of the day, each one of these charges will hinge on whether or not they can show that Sean Combs and essentially overcame Cassandra Ventura's will. So whether or not there was coercive control that resulted in her staying in. And at the end of the day, with regard to racketeering, with regard to forced labor, sex trafficking, and even the transportation of prostitution, getting from her mouth, exactly what happened to her is key. And I think at the end of the day, as previously mentioned, having other individuals who can testify to what they saw as well, and also that this type of conduct happened to other individuals is going to be really important in establishing the pattern of racketeering that the government has alleged here.
- [11:10]
Eva Pilgrim
And to that point that you just raised, Cassie testified today that she saw Diddy inflict violence on others. Why does that matter here?
- [11:19]
Maria Cruz Melendez
The reason that's important is because of the this distinction that defense counsel is trying to make at this point, that this is simply about domestic violence, that it's about what happened between John Combs and Cassie Ventura. But once you've brought in other victims, once you've brought in the fact that violence may have been perpetrated against staff, against assistants, against other individuals who felt that they also had to assist Combs and the crimes that have been alleged by the government, then you're getting closer to establishing not only an enterprise, but that there's in fact been a pattern of racketeering.
- [11:56]
Eva Pilgrim
You brought your case against R. Kelly also for racketeering and sex trafficking. So you know what it takes to go up against a powerful, wealthy defendant. What are the similarities and the differences that you see here?
- [12:09]
Maria Cruz Melendez
Yeah, I think there are a number of similarities. At the end of the day, we have a high profile defendant. We have that in both cases, we have a situation in which allegations included coercive control, taking individuals under their wing, using that as a form of control, using physical abuse, psychological abuse, and other forms. During my opening statement in the R. Kelly case, I talked about the Predator's Handbook and using all those types of methods in order to control individuals. I think some of the differences, of course, that you see is that in the R. Kelly case, a number of our victims, the majority of our victims were minors. Here you have a situation in which that's not the case. And I think that distinction can sometimes make a difference if you need to convince a jury that a successful adult woman was controlled by someone like Sean Combs. And that takes us back to this pattern, Understanding all of the abuse that has been alleged and that Cassie Ventura has been testifying to and how that overcame her will, such that she was unable to leave to say no and in fact had to do everything that Combs told her to do.
- [13:23]
Eva Pilgrim
Maria Cruz Melendez, thank you so much for being with us. Still ahead, time to talk strategy. How's each side making its case? And how might that play with the jury? We'll be right back.
- [13:41]
Brad Milkey
No matter where the new sound is coming from, T Mobile helps you tune in because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network switch. Now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the 800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com backslash keepandswitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card will have 15 days qualified unlocked device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card is no cash access and expires in six months.
- [14:11]
Eva Pilgrim
The cultural phenomenon the Secret Lies of.
- [14:13]
Brian Buckmire
Mormon Wives is back with an all.
- [14:15]
Eva Pilgrim
New season now streaming on Hulu.
- [14:17]
Brian Buckmire
Where is everyone at?
- [14:18]
Bernardo Villalona
Mom Talk has gotten to a really hostile point.
- [14:21]
Brian Buckmire
Demi's willing to kick Jessie out of the group. I feel like I'm walking into a lion's den.
- [14:25]
Brad Milkey
It's gonna get messy for a for sure.
- [14:27]
Erin Katerski
Mom Talk is turning on each other left and right.
- [14:29]
Bernardo Villalona
The police are here.
- [14:30]
Maria Cruz Melendez
I can't see this going any other.
- [14:32]
Eva Pilgrim
Way but a pure bloodbath. This is so toxic.
- [14:37]
Brian Buckmire
The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives now streaming on Hulu.
- [14:44]
Eva Pilgrim
Welcome back to ABC News Live. We are wrapping up day three of testimony in the Sean Diddy Combs trial. For the second day in a row, the prosecution calling Combs ex girlfriend Cassie Ventura to the stand. Emily Johnson from the U.S. attorney's office asking Cassie, how frequently did Sean put his hands on you during freak offs? Ventura responding too frequently, a lot. Brian Buckmire joins me now again alongside fellow ABC News legal contributor Bernardo Villona. Bernarda, you used to be a prosecutor. Brian, you're a defense attorney. So I want you both to sort of paint a picture for us of what it would be like for these lawyers who are in this courtroom right now. Bernardo, let's start with you. What, what do you think the prosecutors are wanting the jurors to take away from Cassie's testimony?
- [15:27]
Bernardo Villalona
Well, the prosecutors, they're doing the best that they can in terms of getting the emotion out there. They want the jury to feel what Cassie felt living in her shoes each of those days. That she was part of a freak off, that she was on drugs, that she was drinking alcohol that she was beating viciously by Puff Daddy Combs. So that's what they want. Because. Because they want that emotional attachment for that jury when they go into deliberations to fight for her and fight for the prosecution to return a guilty verdict. But they also want the jury to know that, look, she may have been in this relationship for years, but it's because she was under the manipulation and the control of Sean Combs that she remained in that relationship not knowing any better, that she was an actual victim and that she should have walked away.
- [16:17]
Eva Pilgrim
All right, Brian, so as a defense attorney, you're watching this witness on the stand. What are you looking for?
- [16:23]
Brian Buckmire
So I'm looking to see how she describes events, how she describes her participation in this relationship. Describes her participation, sorry, in the freakoffs. And I'm trying to find the avenues where I can say, yes, you are absolutely abused. No one's disputing that. But the decision to go across state lines, the decision to participate in these freak offs, you did that because you loved him and you wanted to be with him. You understood this relationship, but it was a violent relationship. Why did you go off and do these freak offs? Why did you go across state lines? Because it was a part of the relationship and it wasn't part of control. But when you got there, the part of the relationship, when you went out for dinner, when you went to freak offs, when you went to award ceremonies, he beat you because he's a domestic abuser, but he's not a sex trafficker. It's about making a very logical distinction between the two to try to see he's guilty of something, but not what he's being charged of.
- [17:13]
Eva Pilgrim
I saw you moving. You're shaking your head there. I mean, how do you make the discern from someone who wanted to be there and someone who's abused? I mean, they showed pictures of some of these freak offs today. How do you make that clear?
- [17:27]
Bernardo Villalona
Well, they're not just gonna make it clear with Cassie because they are gonna call other witnesses. And more importantly, one of the most important witnesses, this expert that's going to testify about women that have been abused before and why they will decide to stay in a relationship. They're being abused by their abuser. So try to explain this type of syndrome to me. It's like battered wife syndrome, right? A sexual assault victim. That it takes a while for a person to be strong enough, one, to realize that they were a victim, two, that they're ready to walk away, and three, that they have the power and they'll be okay if they walk away. So you're still going to hear from that witness. But I think more importantly is that when we're talking about things that you and I were normally think, I wouldn't want to do that. That wouldn't, I wouldn't agree to that. When we're talking about having sex while she's on her menstrual cycle or having sex while she has a sexual UTI or having sex while someone's urinating on her, it sparks the conscience, shocks the conscience. So that's one of the main arguments that the prosecution is going to drive through and drive home to the jury at the end of this case to be like, no one in their right mind will agree to this type of behavior.
- [18:41]
Brian Buckmire
But real quick. And Bernardo, I think is saying it better, far better than the government is doing nothing. But Bernardo said was about trafficking. Everything that Bernardo just talked about was about domestic abuse. And I think the defense can say, yes, all of that is true. And that's what we call domestic violence, but that's not trafficking.
- [18:58]
Eva Pilgrim
Do you think they have to make the distinction there, Bernardo?
- [19:01]
Bernardo Villalona
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, the prosecution is not there yet. I think they've made an excellent case for domestic violence. But, baby, we are here on federal charges. So you're going to have to prove the racketeering conspiracy. You're going to have to prove the sex trafficking by force, fraud and coercion. You're going to have to prove the transportation to engage in prostitution. And I think right now and again, this is only what, day three of testimony. They haven't got into that racketeering conspiracy. I think that in terms of the other two charges, you haven't gotten there beyond a reasonable doubt. This is not a civil lawsuit. You have a burden and that burden is beyond a reasonable doubt. And you're going to have to meet it with some evidence.
- [19:44]
Eva Pilgrim
And we got a lot longer to go. Bernardo Villalona, Brian Buckmire, thank you both for being here with us. Coming up, who is Alex Fine? And what happened with Suge Knight? Those are some of the most searched questions online about this case. We'll have the answers for you when we come back.
- [20:11]
Maria Cruz Melendez
This is the next phase in my therapeutic work.
- [20:14]
Brian Buckmire
Nicole Kidman returns for The Hulu Original Nine Perfect Strangers Season 2.
- [20:18]
Kelly Carter
Breathe in.
- [20:20]
Eva Pilgrim
Breathe out. This is safe.
- [20:22]
Maria Cruz Melendez
We take you back to a core trauma.
- [20:25]
Kelly Carter
Breathe in.
- [20:27]
Eva Pilgrim
Breathe out.
- [20:27]
Bernardo Villalona
She is manipulating us.
- [20:29]
Eva Pilgrim
Breathe in. Breathe out.
- [20:32]
Erin Katerski
While you're resisting. Is it too late to get a refund?
- [20:35]
Brad Milkey
The all new season of Nine Perfect Strangers is now streaming on Hulu and.
- [20:38]
Brian Buckmire
Hulu and Disney plus new episodes May 21st.
- [20:46]
Eva Pilgrim
Now back to the trial against Sean Diddy Combs, one of the most highly anticipated trials of the year. And web searches show that people have a lot of questions about it. So what do they want to know? Our Kelly Carter covers entertainment and pop culture for us. She is here to break it all down for us. All right, Kelly. So based on our ABC web search data on the heels of today's testimony, one of the most popular searches tonight, people want to know about Kid Cudi's relationship with Cassie. Walk us through this.
- [21:15]
Kelly Carter
Yeah, you know, what's interesting is before Cassie filed her civil suit back in 2023, we didn't know that she and Kid Cudi dated. What she has told us and what we have learned through that, through that civil suit filing and of course in court today is that when she was in an on again, off again relationship with Sean Combs, she at some point started dating the rapper and actor. And she ended it because she was afraid. You know, she said that, you know, she alleges that Shawn threatened violence and had gone as far to blow up his car. And when that, when that civil suit came out, you know, Kid Cudi's team released a statement and said that is absolutely what happened. You know, so this was all kind of new information for I think the people following pop culture about them being, you know, potentially a couple back then.
- [22:01]
Eva Pilgrim
And we should note Combs has pleaded not guilty to racketeering conspiracy, including about this alleged car bombing incident. Okay. Another search that's trending again today is who is Alex Fein, Cassie's husband. People also want to know about the timeline of their relationship. What do we know about this?
- [22:18]
Kelly Carter
We know that they met in 2018 in a gym and at some point he started training Sean and then started training Cassie. You know, Alex, of course, is from originally from Michigan, former college football player who then became a celebrity personal trainer training people like Jennifer Aniston and even Saquon Barkley of the Eagles. And so, and so he, you know, met Cassie and their relationship seems, seem to have taken off because by 2019 they're engaged, married and having a baby. And they met in 2018.
- [22:51]
Eva Pilgrim
Okay. Another interesting search, what happened with Suge Knight?
- [22:55]
Kelly Carter
Yeah, so Suge Knight, of course, is one of the co founders of Death Row Records. He currently is serving a 28 year sentence for voluntary manslaughter for hit and run incident that happened in 2015. And I think people, if they're trying to make the connection between Sean and and Shug, it's that they were both these hip hop impresarios of competing labels and they have publicly beefed, you know, especially during the Tupac versus Notorious B.I.G. tupac being Suge Knight's artist, Notorious B.I.G being Sean Combs artist.
- [23:28]
Eva Pilgrim
Another search we're seeing where and who are Cassie's parents.
- [23:34]
Kelly Carter
Yeah, that's interesting. Right? So we know that because she said in an interview, I think back in like 2008 that her parents, her mom I believe is an army Brad and dad as a navy brat. And while we don't really know much about where they are right now, we know that she's from Connecticut and we have seen her mom, you know, because when she hard launched, as the kids say, on Instagram, her relationship with Alex Fine, it was in a photo with her mother. I thought that was interesting. You know, when she announced to the world that she was in a new relationship, her mother was also in that picture. And then of course, her mom came up in the courtroom today when she said that she didn't want to be truthful with her mom about what was going on.
- [24:15]
Eva Pilgrim
All right, who needs Google when you have Kelly Carter. Kelly, thank you so much for being with us.
- [24:19]
Bernardo Villalona
Of course.
- [24:20]
Kelly Carter
Thank you.
- [24:20]
Eva Pilgrim
And thank you for joining us. We'll be back with new episodes every day of the trial. The show streams right here on ABC News, Live, Disney and hulu, weekdays at 5:30pm Eastern. For even more on the Diddy trial, make sure to follow our podcast Bad the Case Against Diddy, hosted by our very own Brian Buckmeyer. Our on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. I'm Eva Pilgrim in New York. Have a good rest of your day.
- [24:55]
Bernardo Villalona
Yeah.
- [24:56]
Brian Buckmire
The NBA playoffs are here and it's about to be ridiculous, Unbelievable, unfair, downright nasty.
- [25:04]
Kelly Carter
Straight up, can't miss, don't blink. Grab your popcorn and strap in.
- [25:09]
Brian Buckmire
Cinema.
- [25:10]
Kelly Carter
This isn't about who's next. This is about who's now.
- [25:16]
Brian Buckmire
This time it's different. The NBA playoff is presented by Google. Continue on espn, ABC FX presents. Welcome to Wrexham. For the last four years, it's been.
- [25:30]
Kelly Carter
This roller coaster of magic.
- [25:31]
Brian Buckmire
The Emmy award winning series returns Alarxo.
- [25:35]
Erin Katerski
With an all new season.
- [25:36]
Brian Buckmire
We're going into a really tough division.
- [25:39]
Bernardo Villalona
Birmingham are absolute favorites with the arrival of Tom Brady. It's a friendly competition.
- [25:44]
Eva Pilgrim
Well, not so friendly.
- [25:46]
Brian Buckmire
Imagine the opportunity to beat Tom Brady at Sports FXS.
- [25:51]
Maria Cruz Melendez
Welcome to Wrexham.
- [25:52]
Erin Katerski
All new Thursdays at 9 on FX stream on Hulu.