201. Baking it Down - Value over Price

Summary

Podcast Summary: Baking it Down with Sugar Cookie Marketing 🍪
Episode 201: "Value over Price"
Release Date: March 4, 2025

In Episode 201 of the Baking it Down with Sugar Cookie Marketing podcast, hosts Heather and Corey Miracle delve into the critical business strategy of prioritizing value over price. This episode explores how bakers can differentiate their businesses in a competitive market by enhancing perceived value, rather than engaging in price wars.

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Introduction

The episode kicks off with a lighthearted mishap as Heather and Corey attempt to start the recording amid some confusion and a new kitten in the household. Despite the technical hiccups, the hosts set the stage for a deep dive into the topic of value versus price in the baking business (00:00).

Value vs. Price

Heather introduces the central theme by sharing an intriguing anecdote about a Facebook Live session where a seller offers bath bombs containing surprise rings—most being costume jewelry with sporadic authentic diamonds. This "gambling" model leverages customers' excitement over potential high-value items for a low price, illustrating how perceived value can drive sales despite the actual cost (01:31).

Corey echoes this sentiment, highlighting how consumers often subconsciously equate higher prices with better quality. They discuss how major retailers like Target use pricing strategies to make deals appear irresistible, capitalizing on the "variable reward system" similar to psychological experiments with rats pressing buttons for unpredictable rewards (04:50).

Strategies to Increase Value

Enhanced Photography

One of the primary strategies Heather and Corey advocate for increasing perceived value is investing in high-quality photography. Corey emphasizes that better photos can significantly elevate the perceived quality of baked goods without altering the actual product. Heather illustrates this by suggesting a simple experiment: comparing a sloppy photo taken with a basic setup against a professional shot using a macro lens to demonstrate how visual presentation impacts consumer perception (07:12).

Exceptional Customer Service

The hosts argue that outstanding customer service is another pivotal area where bakers can add value. They contrast their approach with impersonal large corporations, stressing the importance of personalized interactions, timely responses, and proactive communication. Heather recounts their experience with managing accountants, underscoring how poor service can erode value and lead to business setbacks (09:28).

Robust Online Presence

Heather and Corey also discuss the significance of a well-designed website and seamless online ordering system. A professional website not only instills confidence in customers but also streamlines the purchasing process, adding to the overall value proposition. Corey mentions tools like Cakecost.net to help bakers confidently price their products based on costs, reinforcing the importance of a strong online foundation (24:55).

Competition and Market Dynamics

The conversation shifts to how competition can sharpen a baker's business acumen. Heather shares a story about an unreliable seller causing frustration, illustrating how a lack of competition can lead to complacency and poor business practices. Conversely, when faced with new competitors, they emphasize the necessity of continually enhancing value to stay ahead without resorting to price cuts (14:00).

Corey adds that competing on price often leads to a "race to the bottom," where bakers end up working harder for less income. Instead, focusing on value allows for maintaining or even increasing prices while delivering superior customer experiences (15:35).

Listener Questions

Rebranding and Renaming

One listener, Carolyn from Ohio, seeks advice on rebranding her business without causing confusion or legal issues. Heather and Corey provide a step-by-step guide:

1. Legal and Business Updates: Change the business name with the state and update insurance policies.
2. Online Transition: Reserve the new domain name and implement a gradual rollout on social media and the website.
3. Communication Strategy: Inform customers through multiple announcements to ease the transition.

They stress the importance of thoughtful planning and gradual implementation to maintain customer trust and recognition during the rebranding process (43:15).

Accounting Challenges

Heather shares their personal experience with an underperforming accountant who failed to manage their finances properly, leading to IRS fines. They highlight the importance of selecting an accountant who offers proactive communication and reliable service. Corey reinforces that maintaining value in business relationships is crucial to prevent operational setbacks (35:14; 40:05).

Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Heather and Corey wrap up the episode by reiterating that focusing on value over price is essential for sustainable business growth. They encourage bakers to invest in areas that enhance the customer experience, such as photography, customer service, and a robust online presence. By doing so, bakers can justify higher prices, attract a more dedicated customer base, and avoid the pitfalls of competing solely on price.

Notable Quotes

• Corey at 06:22: "You don't have to be Oreo's pricing. But I see a lot of bakers being like, I don't feel like anyone wants to pay a higher price."
• Corey at 24:32: "If you're a new baker and you're listening to this podcast,... you do not have pricing confidence and that's where we all started."
• Heather at 40:48: "If it smells bad and it looks bad and it sounds bad, probably is. So do some investigating."

Final Thoughts

Episode 201 of Baking it Down with Sugar Cookie Marketing provides valuable insights into building a successful baking business by emphasizing value over price. Through engaging stories, practical advice, and real-life examples, Heather and Corey guide listeners on how to enhance their business strategies to stand out in a competitive market.

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the provided transcript for reference.

Transcript

[Corey]

I'll let you guys know.

[Heather]

This is the fourth or fifth time we've started this recording. I got a kitten. Corey and I got confused. Corey's called herself Heather. I have no idea what we have said and haven't said. So we're starting over one last time.

[Corey]

So welcome to the Baking it down podcast. For the fourth time today. We are your twins.

[Heather]

We are your hosts and your twins.

[Corey]

Your twins.

[Heather]

We are. Whatever. From this day forward, what we are.

[Corey]

Is a spin off from a group on Facebook. It's called the Sugar Cookie Marketing Group. What we can see is a bird's eye view of big topics, trends, things people have questions about. We can bring it to your ear holes each week on Tuesday.

[Heather]

And Corey wanted to talk about price versus value. Now, the backstory. I'm going to repeat it back to you so we are ensured that we both said it on this edition. This version. Corey loves watching her a Facebook live Addicted.

[Corey]

Addicted.

[Heather]

My, you like to watch past lives.

[Corey]

I don't. I don't want to pop in there when you're live.

[Heather]

My little sister is addicted to watching lives as they're live. Yeah, you'll never see me on either.

[Corey]

I'm a hashtag replay.

[Heather]

You'll see me watching a podcast turned YouTube video. So everyone has their little guilty pleasures. Corey had met this lady years and years ago, many jobs ago, and at a networking event. The lady since departed from the company and Corey finds her in a random Facebook Live and she's selling bomb pop parties, something I've never heard of. Corey broke it down to me. Essentially it's this, you in this Facebook Live, she has a bunch of bath bombs of which these are not safe for baths.

[Corey]

Apparently.

[Heather]

Not just bombs, fizzy bombs. And you say, I want to purchase the next lot of 5 on this Facebook Live. In this live, she will then fizz them in a crock pot. Yeah. And they fizz open and in the center is a ring. Now, most of the ring is costume jewelry. Most of the rings are. But sometimes you can purchase and it will be. It will be a diamond ring worth thousands of them.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

But the initial purchase price is $20 per bath bomb. And you buy them in lots of five.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Then they fizz out on the thing and then she mails them to you, I suppose because you're not there every once in a while. And she's gotten 13 real diamonds over three years.

[Corey]

She's unveiled 13 real diamonds.

[Heather]

Yeah. This is just fascinating in general because it hits that gambling part of our.

[Corey]

Brain where the next never Know, it.

[Heather]

Could be, you might be all of the diamond, but the other ones is like, okay, well, most of her business model though is the costume jewelry, because that's what's fizzing out.

[Corey]

Absolutely.

[Heather]

I love this terminology. Yeah, that one fizzed out, this one fizzed out up. So the concept being as soon as you fizz the rings, she'll hold them up. Right?

[Corey]

She'll hold it up.

[Heather]

Instead of saying you lost or you got a piece of ring you didn't get the diamond, she'll say this, this ring is valued at, which is set by the company she works for. Sure. This ring is valued at $350.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And the next ring will be valued at $150. So for your $100 investments, you have to buy them $20 each packs of five. You can walk away with a valuation of thousands of dollars. Even regardless of the fact that it's.

[Corey]

Not a diamond, that you paid 100 bucks total.

[Heather]

Now you may be thinking, surely people can see right through this. The valuation and the price is so wildly different. They know that it's not truly worth $350 in the same breath. We're doing the exact same thing when we go to Ross.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

But we are easily judging the bath bombs.

[Corey]

We are. Because if you are not into costume jewelry, it's easy to be like, I would never buy that. But if you love costume jewelry and you're getting a piece for 350 valued at. For $20, then you made it great savings.

[Heather]

What a. Every sale at Bath and Body Works, every Ross and Michaels store, you walk into Marshalls, the M's get me confused.

[Corey]

I love me and my home goes.

[Heather]

Every sale at Target is triggering the exact same part of our brain where we're like, oh my goodness. The price is discounted, but the value was up. Here I must be getting something I shouldn't.

[Corey]

Absolutely. Going through Target, their new thing is new lower price. Above the new lower price was the old price.

[Heather]

We have to have the anchor cuz we don't know value.

[Corey]

Absolutely.

[Heather]

Until we see the lower price.

[Corey]

When I see that whatever it does to my brain, my son loves goldfish crackers. Fishies is what I call them. Apparently it's uncool to call them fishies. They're goldfish.

[Heather]

He's 15.

[Corey]

When I see new lower price and I see the higher price, the, the fastness that I picked that in my cart, something, right?

[Heather]

So intermittent, like reinforcement, like that variable reward system. They had three rats and three cages and each had a button. When the rat pressed the button. In the first cage, nothing came out. So the rat, every time he present nothing happened. He never pressed it again. In the second cage, the rat press a button every time a treat came out. Yeah, every time. So he knew that whenever he wanted something he would just press a button. And he pressed it so many times, as much as he was hungry, and then stopped when he was full.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

In the third cage, the rat would press a button and sometimes something would come out and sometimes it wouldn't. He pressed it a hundred more times because of that variable reward system. When we didn't know we were walking into Target and seeing fishies on sale trigger something in us. Right. Because the value, albeit inflated now because Target's not going to sell at a loss. Right. It still feels like something for us to know. Reverse psychology, right?

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

In bakers, we don't want to compete on. We don't want to discount. We don't want to run into that because Cory and I were talking yesterday. Have we had. We walked into Ross and Ross launched its own line.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

And none of it's discounted. We'd be like, that's. Now I don't want to pay full price. I come to Ross because I want to pay a discounted price. I want. I want the price to be less than the value. Right, Right. And that's where I feel like I got something I shouldn't. And that feels great. And that's that discounted strategy. Now, in baking, we. The race to the bottom is so low because at the bottom is Oreos and chips and wine.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Of which we cannot compete on price.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And we cannot compete on value because you get a whole sleeve of them.

[Corey]

92 Oreos for six.

[Heather]

Do my big Oreo like my big pharma. My big Oreo conspiracy is that the double stuffed is now a single stuffed and the big stuff is just a double stuff.

[Corey]

The mega stuff.

[Heather]

Yeah, Mega stuff is just a double stuff. They just. They just said mega Tringflation. Absolutely. And I'm gonna take that one to the grade. So what I'm saying is the opposite of that in if we're going to not compete on lowering our price, we have to compete on upping our value.

[Corey]

Your value. Instead of being price focused. You'll never be Oreo's pricing. But I see a lot of bakers being like, I don't feel like anyone wants to pay a higher price. I have to stay low. My price has to be the lowest because if I charge more, I won't make More sales. Your price focused. You're not a value focused sale.

[Heather]

I was reading about sales objections and someone said if someone objects on price, you haven't convinced them of the value. Right. So when someone's like, ooh, that's a little out of my budget, what they're saying is you haven't convinced me that my budget should rise to that, to that price. So as bakers, how can we increase value so that we can maintain price or raise price should we need it? The cost of eggs being ever present, reminder of it.

[Corey]

There's things that you can do to raise the value. Photography is a big one.

[Heather]

Massive and very low cost outside of the initial setup. Okay. If you buy your AE core backers use code sugarcookie for 20% off. And if you buy use your external lighting. I don't like, you know, manufactured lighting is rough. It's hard.

[Corey]

It's hard.

[Heather]

Let's say we manage it and then we invest in even a nice iPhone. But if we do go DSLR or mirrorless camera. Okay, we got that. With just those three factors changed, your photography increases the value of a price that never shifted.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So and you should do this, you should take a photo, a sloppy photo with the exact same setup with the, you know, older phone and the photo with that Canon macro lens. Yeah. It's just going. You're going to say one of these is worth more than the other. Although nothing changed. But an external factor.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

That even the quality of goods did not change the perception of the quality of goods did.

[Corey]

The key word there is value is perceived. It's perceived different. I had someone that asked for a quote yesterday. Her granddaughter was the one who requested the quote and she was fine with my pricing. She ran it by grandma, she said, and the grandma said, there's no way on this planet that I'm pay that.

[Heather]

Grandma was too far removed from what convinced granddaughter that it was the right price.

[Corey]

But there's two people looking at my cookies. One said absolutely. One said, no chance on this planet. But there's the perceived value. She found the value and she said that's what it was. Grandma said, we're getting the Oreos.

[Heather]

So grandma's objection, whatever that was. And Corey would have to have spoken to the grandma. That's why these that let me ask my husband. It's such a great way to get out of something. The foresee value. The objection that the grandma raised, Corey wasn't there to understand what it was and to fulfill it. Right. So grandma may be very price conscious.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Which she likely is. A lot of they said people born in the boomer Great Depression. Yeah. Stock number thing about it. Cause they said people born in the Great Depression act very differently than people born out of economic pressures because they are constantly reminded of that time.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Although Ruthan likes to say it was 1939. She was barely enough. Whenever she's cheap. I point it out, but that. So we have grandma who's very price conscious, and then we have a daughter who's very value conscious. And whatever that. That objection that the daughter may had. Corey had met it. So, okay, how do we also increase value that customer service cost you? Nothing costs time.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

But it is one exceptional way to increase value to maintain price or be able to raise price.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Great example is called the. I had to call the irs. Yeah. So I hate that. Yes. I would rather get a wisdom tooth removed than call the iris. Right. And it was like, hey, the wait time is 5 billion years. What you can do, like this automated thing was like, you can type in your number and we will return your call within 30 minutes. So I was like, absolutely. Sold. I'm. It's been three months. Still waiting on the call. Right. They just never called back. 30 minutes, three months. I can see where they could get from this three years. You misunderstood us. So when the IRS gets your money, regardless, they do not have to try to earn your money. So they do not care about customer service. That's a great example of what we need to do the opposite of. Because cookies are such a luxury, luxury item. IRS have to pay. Cookies don't need to pay. Right. Cookies is a gift. Definitely don't need to pay. Cookies is a really expensive, custom gift that we have to earn. So this customer service photography, again, nothing about your bags change, nothing about your cost change outside of maybe the investing in a camera and maybe a photo backdrop. Then we have customer service. What changes there? You got chat gtp. It's free to use right now.

[Corey]

Right.

[Heather]

So if you're not good at customer service, you don't know what to say there. Even I can kind of give you the leg up.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

That quick response time, that following up, that getting to them, reminding them of their pickup before they have to ask you if you remember right.

[Corey]

If I go into the target's cookie section and I approach the Oreo section of the cookie aisle, there's no one there that I could ask a question to. Hey, what kind of. Is there any artificial food coloring in there? No one's there. Their price reflects zero customer service.

[Heather]

If you Go to an Ikea and you read their aprons. Like, if you go to Ikea, nobody talks to you, and you're like, that's kind of weird. In a land that's made to be a maze, you think there would be an assistant. But if you read their aprons, shirts front and back, it was like, to keep our costs low, we do not offer assistance unless you ask for it.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And so great, because IKEA is competing on price.

[Corey]

Absolutely. So they're like, we are going to.

[Heather]

Tell you the things that keep this cheaper. Now, we're not competing on price. The bakers should not be competing in price because, again, you're not going to get down to Oreo on Chips Ahoy level. So we need to compete on value. So instead of saying, we're not talking to you to save on money, we are talking to you so that we can charge you as much.

[Corey]

Yeah. We're going to guide you. Every question you have is going to be answered fully and completely. And there's no such thing as a dumb question. Anything you have, send it my way and I will get you an answer.

[Heather]

That'S a very increase in value. When you always, like, hotels are so wild to me. When I have to book hotel, I'm always, like, left with thought that every single human has to plug off and turn off at the end of the day. Hotel as a business model is genius because everybody's got to sleep. Like, you can't not sleep. So what makes a difference between the hotel that was $50 a night, and then our little sister's going to some spa this month. So we were. I was looking at the prices of the rooms to see how much because I knew the place was more expensive. And we were going through, and she was splitting the room four ways for one night and each of us paying $200. She's an $800 room. Wow. But the rooms per night went up to $6,000. That's insane. All you needed was the bed and the toilet. A toilet. Right.

[Corey]

There's someone. There's a place for someone to sleep who's focused on price, and there's a place for someone to sleep who's focused on value.

[Heather]

Sleeping based on price gets a little bedbug, friend. So then, okay, what makes that hotel say, oh, I can charge $6,000 a night? Well, it was customer. I guarantee you're not touching your luggage there.

[Corey]

I think someone is taking it from your vehicle to your room.

[Heather]

I guarantee you have a dedicated concierge. I guarantee you that somebody is bringing Food to your room. So there's that value added for something arbitrary. At the end of the day, you only needed the bed, right? At the end of the day, they only needed a cookie. How can we make this cookie the presidential suite of cookies?

[Corey]

Yeah. What I see in the hardest thing for some bakers are the first or they're the number one in their area. They're number one because they have no competition. No one's caught on to the royal icing. Sugar cookie bakers. So whatever level they give their customers have been fine with. There was no other option. What I see when someone pops up, another baker pops up in the same area, that baker who has not been the best at the. Providing the value, the customer service, the photography's, whatever, start saying, I think this area is oversaturated.

[Heather]

But in reality, what it should be is when competition moves in, the market gets better. Because now the baker who was able to sit back and just charge whatever, this kitten. I wanted this specific kitten, right? Corey and I were saying it was hard to get.

[Corey]

It was very hard to get.

[Heather]

The lady who was selling the kitten, she was like crazy, just wild.

[Corey]

She was non communicative.

[Heather]

She was sporadic.

[Corey]

She was very wasted my time. Forgot my name a million times.

[Heather]

Pretty sure she was wasted most of the time. And Cory and I were standing there knocking on her door at 8am she would not give us a time to meet. We drove down and we drove 20 hours. I had to buy a hotel, I had to buy food, I had to, you know, buy all these things. And we're standing outside her door at 8am and she was like, I'm not out of bed yet. Like we had asked. She said, show up whenever time. And then we're standing there. I said, Corey said, this is proof that low competition allows businesses to get sloppy and there's nothing the consumer can do.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Okay, now reverse it. Now we got a cook here who's got competition. What is, what do both cookiers have to do? Sharpen.

[Corey]

They have to sharpen, right? And it's great for your industry. It, it sucks.

[Heather]

It's actually greater. It's great for your business because we get a little lackadaisical and we get lazy and we sit back and we're like, it's fine. Corey and I, we're working on the website redesign, right? And I said to her, I'm disappointed in myself because I got sloppy because I didn't see much competition. Had I done this effort four years ago, where would we be? Absolutely right. So competition does sharpen the blades of everyone cutthroat. But back to the value, the increasing value. That's where all the chess pieces need to move first before we look at that price.

[Corey]

Yes. A lot of bakers will be like, I'm not making sales. I have to lower my price. Instead of saying, I have to lower my price, what if you say, I have to up my value?

[Heather]

I would rather up my value before I lowered my price.

[Corey]

Well, you can't bake for free. It's a race to the bottom. When you keep lowering your price. You could be charging $0 and be booked out for sure.

[Heather]

But you're going to quit. Yeah. What I was saying to Corey the other day was that when somebody Let me just round it up. You're charging $80 a dozen.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

For the person down the street charging $40 a dozen. Well, they're. They're half the price of cor.

[Corey]

Great.

[Heather]

I'll definitely use them to secure every lead. They have to work twice as hard. They do, because for every 80 Corey sells, they have to sell to two people. Right. The cost of reaching one person is high. The cost of reaching two people is higher. Now we have double the amount of work for the same amount of cooking. We have double the amount of customer service. We have double the amount of invoicing. We have double the amount of communication.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

But Corey only had to do it once. Okay. So you say, well, I'm going to compete on price because they're probably going to come to me before they come to Corey. Right. All things considered. No, she's going to compete on value. You're competing on price. Corey's got better photos.

[Corey]

I have better photos.

[Heather]

You're competing on price. Corey's got better time management because she doesn't have to take so many orders.

[Corey]

I can give you better customer service. You are my client. For her two clients, where she's going back and forth with two different people, I have what? You're my main man.

[Heather]

And then we have that. That caveat that. That underlying thing is that the person who has the budget for the $80 is not so particular as a person who doesn't have the budget for the $40. And this is a lot to them.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So now these two customers, these potentially, like, this is a big deal for me. They're going to be high maintenance. Whereas Corey has one. Even if this one customer is high maintenance, she has double the amount of time to allocate.

[Corey]

But you might be saying, for the person who's charging 40, you know, that's a steal. Compared to me, it's a steal. But there's another baker out there who's charging half of 40 DOL charging $20.

[Heather]

So we all gonna need to charge $19. Do you see?

[Corey]

But here's the thing. The person that's charging 40, that person who chose them and avoided the person who was charging 20 because they were booked.

[Heather]

Of course they're booked.

[Corey]

They're the cheapest baker. They're having to provide so much customer service because you're the top end of the person with the lowest budgets Baker.

[Heather]

Now there's a third factor to consider when you decide to compete on price is I don't order the cheapest thing. I don't want to order the most expensive. And I, I'm a middle of the road guy. I'm never going to go to the cheapest because I feel like something' preach.

[Corey]

To Heather is there is no value in free.

[Heather]

Yeah. I had attend, okay. Networking events.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

My little sister had to go to one and she didn't want to go. It was free to attend. Right. So all these people are registered. Half the people show up free to attend. There's no value. They lost nothing by not going and they gained nothing by not going. Right. Because it was free. I had gone to this, you know, back in a couple jobs ago, I had to go to these network events and this person said, hey, it's $100 to go. Like. But they said, but when you get there, we give you the $100 back. So it now had a cost. If I don't go, this, the price of this is a hundred dollars. But if I do go, it's the price of free. And I thought that was a great manipulation of it's free to attend but it's not costless to attend.

[Corey]

Yeah, it's so easy to be like, there's no value in free. There's also less value in being the cheapest person. It's just, it's so hard to conceptualize. Is $20$0. No, it's not. But $0 is $0. I was telling Heather, I'm in a lot of these buy nothing, sell nothing groups. They're popular. I love to give stuff away. I'm not a good reseller. I will give something that has value. It will have a Marshall stickers on there 4.99. So it's worth $4.99 is what I paid. I'll send it out for free. They'll never show.

[Heather]

The fact that you're giving something away with a tax on it is Wild. I found a cup.

[Corey]

It has cats on it.

[Heather]

I see why I like it. But I can give it away.

[Corey]

The people will never show up. It's the biggest problem in the buy nothing, sell nothing group because there's no value there.

[Heather]

Absolute. Now, listen, you. You say it was $4.99. I'm selling it for 3.99. And you don't have it out. When that person shows up, you can get a bad review on your marketplace.

[Corey]

Yeah, for sure. So that's why the baker that always is focused on being the lowest price, that if you didn't make a sale, I feel like I gotta lower my price. You're doing yourself a disservice because you're.

[Heather]

Creating a ton more work, the same amount of effort and half the money.

[Corey]

Yeah. Focusing on the value. So when the lady unveils this ring from the fizzy water, she never says, 20 bucks. Look what it got you. She says, wow. Valued at $350.

[Heather]

The value that even though you didn't win the diamond ring. Right. Which is a real gimmick, for sure. You still got something valued at so much more than you thought it was, than you paid.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Right. And that's that kind of reverse psychology of the valued at. So Cory and I were saying, you go into Ross because you want the deal, you want the thing you wanted, but you want it cheaper than it was.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And that's why Ross is so great about price anchoring. They'll put any label on a thing, they'll strike it out, and they'll put a cheaper price because that is their business model. When I said, what if we walked in and Ross is like, we're making our own merchandise. None of it's on sale. We're pricing it competitively. Which J.C. penney did. Right. JCPenney, who is known for that discount, bringing your coupons, the competing on price. JCPenney said, we don't want to play games anymore. We're just going to price it as it is. And they hemorrhaged sales.

[Corey]

They did.

[Heather]

Because, you see, they cultivated an audience and said, we only want you to compete on price. Now, the baker who wants to do that, you'll be out of business soon enough because the cost of eggs has increased.

[Corey]

There was once a few years ago a baker that you helped in sugar cookie marketing. And I want you to listen.

[Heather]

I know exactly.

[Corey]

Okay. I want you to say the story she had said.

[Heather]

I. I'm so booked out. I don't agree with the fact that you're saying, raise your Prices. And I was like, okay. And I said that I'm going to challenge you. I'm gonna ask you a couple questions. Are you working late into the night? She said, yes. I said, when was the last time you had a day with your kids? And she's like, I can't remember. And I said, and that's the reason we don't compete on price. So if you trust me and you would raise your price, you will see a loss in the customers that you've cultivated currently. But you're going to gain a new customer set and you're going to be able to sue your kids a couple years later. She was like, yeah, that absolutely was it. I was competing on price and I was burning at both ends and I was miserable, miserable. And now I'm able to increase my value, increase my price price, and I'm able to lead the life I want. Yeah.

[Corey]

A lot of bakers question what Heather just said. Because when you cultivated an audience who is price centric and you say, I'm no longer price centric. I'm burning up o fence. I'm getting ready to burn out and quit this whole thing. And you switch to a value conscious buyer, there is going to be a little drop off because this pricing audience obviously wants the lowest price that you have built this audience on the lowest price buyer. So when you raise your value and you raise your price, these people fall off and you get a new segmented audience that sees the value.

[Heather]

I'm going to tell. I'm going to run this test. Sure. I had written this post a couple of years ago. I should have posted it if I told you there's a car that was $80,000 and a car that was $10,000. Which car is nicer? 80,000. But you don't know anything about the cars. You just know that the higher priced car is going to be nicer.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

I don't know why we can't apply that to cookies.

[Corey]

It's, it's so easy as a consumer to see it. As a business owner, though, we're like, if we're not the lowest price, it comes down to being. It's, it's hard to be confident in everything, especially business.

[Heather]

Yeah. That imposter syndrome is that little guy.

[Corey]

In the back chatting to me every single day. If you can, if you can look at your business as a math problem, I can't charge under $80 because if I charge under $80, I'm suffering. I'm not. But if I believe that I'm suffering for charging under $80. The lady who told me my cookies were way too expensive yesterday would have taken me to my knees.

[Heather]

Right?

[Corey]

I'd have been guessing. I gotta do something. My pricing, it's wrong.

[Heather]

I was listening to this podcast on like self esteem and they're like, there's internal, there's self esteem and then there's others esteem. And they said a lot of people who don't have, who have low self esteem suffer from other esteem. Meaning I only value myself when you value me.

[Corey]

Yeah, right.

[Heather]

But their problem is they're like people don't value when you don't value yourself. Same with the cookies, right? If I don't believe that my cookies are worth the invoice they just sent you, you're going to pick up on that. And when you say, well, I don't think they're worth this, I'm going to capitulate and be like, they're not. Yeah, you're right. Here's a discount. If I'm like, Corey, listen, for you to pass this up and I book out, two weeks out and I would love to beg for you, but this, I only have so much time and I would. This is going to be phenomenal. I'm going to knock this out of the park. In fact, I've actually already did look at all these other photos I've done. You define money. If I have that confidence, I know my value proposition is there. I know my price is matched. It's in line with that, in line with the customer service, with the photography, with the everything you're going to get. The ease of ordering, the safe feeling you're going to get. Then I'm self esteem. My cookies are my. Absolutely. They're worth that. And then you're going to pick up on that as a buyer, you book out, two weeks out.

[Corey]

If you're a new baker and you're listening to this podcast, you might be coming to the sugar cookie marketing group and be like, what would you pay for this? That tells me you do not have pricing confidence and that's where we all started. So don't feel like you're anyway different.

[Heather]

While to produce something and know you're charging your time, your cost, your indirect cost and profit and then tell somebody like you literally got into it because you didn't want to pay somebody else's price.

[Corey]

Absolutely. So for a baker to question their pricing is, is so common. There's a website called Cakecost.net it is a great foundational place where you input the cost of your ingredients, your hourly wage and it spits out a number to you. It's a math problem.

[Heather]

It's.

[Corey]

There's no feeling involved. And that is a great way to start getting pricing confidence. And pricing confidence is going to be the difference from you always second guessing, lowering your price because you feel like you're not getting enough sales to confidently saying, heather, yeah, I can bake that for you. It'll be 80 a dozen, which you like to go ahead and schedule that and I'll book you on the calendar. I'm going to send you the link to pay. Once it's paid, you are secured.

[Heather]

In the land of websites Corey and I know now, they're website builders. You could go to fire. You can get all these. And Corey, you know, I would be in these groups. Just like, there's groups for cookies, there's groups for web developers.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And someone would be like, why would I not. Why would I charge $1,000 or $2,000 or $5,000 when I. It's. They could get it for 300 somewhere else. And I was like, because they're not paying for the website. They're paying for everything around the website. Because Corey and I have had clients who are just. I mean, they treat us like they're diaries with changes and thoughts. And I'm like, you're not paying for the website. You're paying for me to listen.

[Corey]

Absolutely.

[Heather]

You're paying for me to let you Change the color 50 times. You're paying for me to let you switch all the pictures. And for that, I'm going to charge accordingly. Because my value is different than the cost of a website. The cost of a website could be $300.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

But the value I'm going to bring to you with this. You're going to have somebody who explains. You're going to have somebody who's going to be open to talking to you. You're going to have somebody who's going to implement the changes in an effective time span. You have somebody who's going to offer you extra things, and I'm going to charge accordingly.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So the bakery is like, but the cookies, they could get the Oreos. We don't care. That's not what we're doing. We're pricing based off of the value that we provide. The same way the ring lady in her Tupperware. What was this? A crock pot?

[Corey]

Crock pot. Here's what Warren Buffett said, price is what you pay, value is what you get.

[Heather]

Right. And I want a high value, whatever that. And I'll never Be able to stay at a $6,000 a night presidential suite. No. Whatever that is. I think I'd be floored and I'd be like, this is. This is outside my. Even like what I could think was available.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Because they were like, we're competing on value. Yeah. You can pay nothing and sleep in a mattress and a cardboard box outside. But that's not what you're here. You're here for this of value. Right.

[Corey]

As luxury item bakers. Which if you're baking custom sets that match someone's invitation to their child's personal.

[Heather]

Birthday cookie cutters and die free options.

[Corey]

Yeah. You don't have the opportunity to compete on price. You are a luxury item. Your life will be hellish if you're always focused on making sure you're priced.

[Heather]

The lowest and still a luxury item because the item didn't change. It's still a luxury item. You've priced so low it shouldn't be luxury anymore, but it has to be because it's custom made.

[Corey]

You might think. Corey, doesn't it irk you that someone's charging $40 and you're charging $80 for a dozen? No, I love it. That price anchor there.

[Heather]

Because Heather says, I would say if I. Okay, let's pretend I'm the customer. Corey's charging 80 and this lady's charging 40. I'm either saving 40 or I'm losing 50% of the value. Like, and if I lose 50 of the value, where is that going to be? Is she not going to follow up with me? Is she going to forget my order? Is she going to package it ugly?

[Corey]

Is the cookies not taste as good? You don't know, right?

[Heather]

You don't know. But I perceived perception values. Perceived. I perceived that going at half price is going to get me half the value because I'm paying 50%.

[Corey]

I'm going to tell you, me and the 40 lady were both going to be booked. Booked, blessed and busy.

[Heather]

She's gonna be booked twice. Twice. She's gonna be twice as busy.

[Corey]

Twice as busy. But I'm going to be able to work twice as less for the same amount of money.

[Heather]

Twice as less. Twice.

[Corey]

Twice as fewer.

[Heather]

Least as early.

[Corey]

That's definitely not the correct one.

[Heather]

Twice as. Not as much. The gas station on the street is priced if it's $3.50 for somebody, it's $2.90 there.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

The line is out the door around. And I think you think I'm sarcastic if you can't. Everyone knows this burnt gas station. I know exactly where it is express. Yeah. It's not express at all because it is very.

[Corey]

It's the opposite of express.

[Heather]

There's so many lines. There's a. Because of the illegal U turns to beat the line. There's now a police station there.

[Corey]

I like to express my frustration with the backup.

[Heather]

It is disgusting, the place. Nothing has been cleaned. When you. You know when you touch a gas pump and you're like, I need to burn this hand. Yeah, that is that guess for sure. Never does it print a receipt. You have to go talk to somebody. It does not have a convenience store. It has that one where the guy's guarded by Fadi.

[Corey]

It's like a square.

[Heather]

He can just see the square. Yeah. And I think. And it's all faded and stuff. And then they run out of gas all the time because it's. But you're like, wow, they must be successful. The guy that works there never smiles. He is not happy. He is stressed.

[Corey]

He is putting out not literal fires.

[Heather]

That would be bad.

[Corey]

He is putting out customer complaints. Where's my receipt?

[Heather]

And he's dealing with so many customers who all have complaints. Now of the street is Don's Exxon Don. There's never a line. It's triple the price. There's nobody there. I go up there because I don't have to wait. It's all clean. It sings a song when I put my gas in the thing. You get rewards points. I hate those questions before you pump. But I never have to wait. It's very clean. It's very organized. The pumps are never out of gas. I can guarantee it. And then there is a convenience store and there's actually a mechanic shop because it's able to sustain that because the gas prices are higher. That allows that business to be a more luxury experience.

[Corey]

You have the luxury feeling, the luxury walk in the luxury clean bathroom.

[Heather]

Unless It's a BUC EE's, it's not a luxury guest. Everything said to us.

[Corey]

Here's the thing. As a baker, it's so easy to question everything that comes down to you. But it's. If we turn that focus on, I'm not as good as the person down the street. So I can't charge what they charge.

[Heather]

You can increase your value.

[Corey]

Increase your value. A website that makes it easy to order. That's value increased right there.

[Heather]

And it gives me like peace of mind. Somebody today we had a no stupid question thread in that group. Group. Someone's like pros and cons of website. I said cons. Upkeep and Cost pros, everything else.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

It's unfortunate but that is that value added thing where it's not even tangible. Yeah, I can't eat it. I was buying cookies.

[Corey]

Be just as good as customer service. A lot of bakers when they start off will take orders via DM and.

[Heather]

That'S an easy way to start.

[Corey]

As someone, I love online shopping and I love to support small business. Sometimes when I support a small business and I can't, there's no website. I feel like, are you going to take my money and I'm not going to get what I ordered?

[Heather]

Well, I go to Amazon.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And if it has 50,000 reviews, I will buy it. Pretty safe if it has three reviews.

[Corey]

What a website does is provide a sense of confidence and value to your customers.

[Heather]

That at gmail versus [e-mail] email is another one of those value added. But this person is so invested. Being registered with your state, getting your certification if your cottage law requires it, getting those five star reviews on Google are all ways you're. I'm sorry, I didn't know that. I did not know that.

[Corey]

He's doing good.

[Heather]

He's doing it.

[Corey]

No, there's ways to add value. Sometimes I feel like there's no. I'm like at the tippity top of my decorating style. Like my decorating journey can't get any higher.

[Heather]

I'm.

[Corey]

I've capped out.

[Heather]

You're that good. It's not even that good. It's your skill set for myself. Back it up, boys.

[Corey]

So I'm never gonna at watercolor because they don't like to do it. It's just not.

[Heather]

And now somebody else can add watercolor and compete on value. Absolutely. You may be like, well, Corey's increased her value so much she's not willing to increase her skill set and that gives somebody else more opportunity.

[Corey]

But where I can focus on is things like my website. It's things like my customer service, it's my photography, it's responding to reviews, it's responding to comments, it's being visual on all the platforms instead of starting an Instagram and like letting it go by the wayside. And someone's like, she still in business? I don't know.

[Heather]

Nothing says I don't care. Like the timestamp saying 2022.

[Corey]

Yeah. So there's value outside of being the best decorator.

[Heather]

So a lot of people it levels of playing field.

[Corey]

It does, it does.

[Heather]

Cory. And I said, thank goodness there's other ways to compete because the Best of the best, you can't get to them. I know.

[Corey]

And I feel like we're surrounded by the best of the best bakers, unfortunately for me.

[Heather]

But they take off a lot and they don't add the value because they can add the value different ways and that's what makes makes competition so valuable.

[Corey]

If we're always focused on value, price is never going to be a factor.

[Heather]

Absolutely. If you're always focused on price, value will be an issue.

[Corey]

Yes, for sure.

[Heather]

For sure. Woke in the beast. I'm so sorry.

[Corey]

I just was playing with my little fidgeter.

[Heather]

He couldn't get away from.

[Corey]

Okay, keep going. If you give him do you looked.

[Heather]

I didn't even think I caught.

[Corey]

He heard a creak in the chair and that's all he needed to power through this.

[Heather]

If I have to pause again. Well, so we're going to do their stupid questions. We just didn't know such thing as stupid question. These are stupid questions meaning if you text into 571-556-5644 you have the chance to win a stupid car tray. And if you don't win, use code sugar at checkout for 15% off. We have a lot of text this time. Nice.

[Corey]

How many?

[Heather]

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13.

[Corey]

I think I chose nine last time.

[Heather]

Then somebody was trying to manage like.

[Corey]

I feel in three.

[Heather]

One, two, three. Okay. It's a text in message. If your area code starts in 281281.

[Corey]

I feel like that's gotta be Oregon.

[Heather]

281 you think Oregon it is. Houston, Texas. Houston, Texas. Houston. Text me or email me heather sugarcookiemarketing.com the rest of your he's climbing up my check. Yes. The rest of your phone number and I'll hook you up with Phil from stupid carjack. Nice. Hi twins. A while back you mentioned that you were hiring a new accountant. One, why did you decide to switch? Two. What kinds of things were you asking the new person during the interview process? Thank you so much for help. I can answer this one because Corey did not attend that I know why we lost the first our first accountant in the terms of the marketing of this podcast. Right. Extremely low value and high price. And when those two things are switched, you create unhappy. I want to.

[Corey]

I want to set up when we first started business obligated because when we first started working I want to say eight years ago now she started with us because we said we knew we had needed an account we wanted accountant. Me and Heather are not Good at numbers. We also don't want to end up in jail.

[Heather]

Turns out we were getting pretty close. Yeah. She. Over time, dear life stresses and changes in life had gotten real sloppy in terms of running her business. Real sloppy.

[Corey]

The price increased, the value decreased.

[Heather]

Your calls at the point. Unfortunately, with QuickBooks, I had no idea I could log in and see how many times she logged in.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And it was three times in the year. And she. But she was real quick at sending that invoice. And then I started receiving IRS fines, meaning that she hadn't filed things. Right. So that was getting bad. And then got referred to this other accountant who was so busy because it was so good. He didn't need new clients. I know. Took a risk.

[Corey]

Do you see how he was so busy? We were like, I want to be with the busy guy.

[Heather]

And he's got it.

[Corey]

Be good because he's busy.

[Heather]

Yeah. The wild part is that he's cheaper than the lady. And, you know, Corey and I. And I had. You know, I have this, like, ptsd. I have this anxiety around talking to accountants. Yeah. Baptism by fire. This guy calls all the time. But she never called. And I had the anxiety saying, like, I don't think you're doing your job right. But when the IRS started calling, I guess you can say, you know, these, like, late fee. Late fees. And, you know, turns out the IRS had stopped sending mailed letters during COVID Yeah. So they all just started piling up anyways with this new accountant. I sat down, I said, here's the things. Also, they were interviewing me because they said, we're not going to take you on Right. Yet. Unless you feel like this is a good fit. So he said, here's the thing. I would like. I would like to never hear from the irs. I don't want a late fee. I don't want a threat of a late fee. I want everything to be filed on time. And a big thing I don't want is filed extensions. And he was like, oh, we'd fire you if you asked us to file an extension.

[Corey]

And I said, oh, wow.

[Heather]

Where this other lady only had filed extensions, which you can file them, and you can. You know, it just really threw off my personal taxes. And I said, another thing I want is I want you to do my personal taxes in conjunction with the business taxes because they are related. And he said, there was never an option that we wouldn't have done that. In fact, we do not want you to start touching your own taxes, because everyone always messes us up.

[Corey]

Absolutely. And we had only.

[Heather]

You had me at hello.

[Corey]

Yeah, here's the thing. The accountant had gotten in bed with.

[Heather]

The wrong set of people. Old accountant.

[Corey]

Old accountant had gotten in the bed with wrong set of people. And they mismanaged some funds for us.

[Heather]

Retirement.

[Corey]

Retirement funds.

[Heather]

That's what led to this whole thing.

[Corey]

It sent up a red flag. So Heather was like, hey, accountant, there's a red flag over here. And the accountant covered for this.

[Heather]

And I said, oh, no, they've covered. She was supposed to be our ally.

[Corey]

And so she covered the other people.

[Heather]

So my bad. But, you know, granted. Rather find it now than five years, I guess. So I went back through. There was a lot of mismanagement of paying taxes and stuff like that. And this new company said, here's exactly. Their process was so great, their communication, their value was so on top of it, they're from a more. They're out of state.

[Corey]

Did I mention the late IRS bill that we were charged with?

[Heather]

No, I don't even want to talk about that. I'm still trying to recover from it. But the big thing was, and that's the interesting part, they're in a very rural area. The new accountant, the old accountant is in our area with this high cost of living. And that's why the prices are different. So we were able to get that. What feels like a discount to us, which is actually a very high price where they are. We were able to get better value and lower price, which is one of the few instances where lower price and value were indirectly related.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Because they were out of state. So, you know, and I hate to mention this, I didn't. I'm not well versed in accounting and bookkeeping and I don't know with licensure, like for the retirement manager, he had to get licensed in our state.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

But the accountant was like, I can work wherever I want. So considering that hiring an accountant because of their value, regardless of where they're at, was actually a better fit for us.

[Corey]

Yeah, it was.

[Heather]

Granted, we're not doing face to face as much, but zoom kind of solves that completely.

[Corey]

True.

[Heather]

And I don't really think we need to do things to face. I don't want to show.

[Corey]

I don't know anymore if I hear the word account and I arrested.

[Heather]

Yeah. But anyways, it's been solved. Or we're in the final stage of it getting solved. But this is a great question. And the big takeaway, what I've learned here is get in bed with the right people. Get in bed. And then you know, I said, and then what I would like is to talk to you guys once a quarter, which is four times more than I was talking to the last person. And they're like, yo, we can do that more or less. But, yeah, absolutely, we will. We expect you to reply to us. So both of us, they took us on. They didn't realize that much. So, yeah, I would say that that interviewing thing and, you know, the new account was like, it's funny, I know why you guys stayed with the old accountant. Although, you know, it was not a great fit. He said, people will get divorced before they switch accountants because I know so much about your life. There's so much paperwork, there's so much transition here. And he was like, but you gotta say what's best for me, what's best for my business. If we tie that back into the.

[Corey]

Podcast topic, there's a let. There became less value over time. Over time. And you're like, but she was still. No, the price was increasing.

[Heather]

Here's the thing. Price wouldn't have been an objection if value had been maintained.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

I didn't even want increased value. I wanted the value I signed on with.

[Corey]

We would have stayed with her. Because you're right, it was a hassle to switch accountants. It was a hassle.

[Heather]

Yeah. You didn't even do it. It was. It's been just. Yeah. How many things came to me to.

[Corey]

Sign was even annoying for me.

[Heather]

Yeah. So, yeah. My big thing is, you know, if. If it smells bad and it looks bad and it sounds bad, probably is. So do some investigating. I wish I could go back in time and then I would say stay on top of communication, even if the service provider isn't, because that'll flag a lot of issues.

[Corey]

Yeah, unfortunately. I wish she talked over us for the fact we're not accountants.

[Heather]

When that first red flag popped up, I called Corey and I said, I think they brushed over something. They had to tell me that is such a problem that they don't want me to realize it.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And I said, I'm going to act real stupid. Not hard for me. Just come in at that level anyways. And I said, I'm going to see if I can get them to admit that this is as big as I think it is. Which here's. We had retirement contributions. They just forgot to do it for years. But we had told the IRS we had made these retirement contributions and we.

[Corey]

Lied to the IRS and it had never been done.

[Heather]

And then we. Yeah. So anyways, I was just so crazy. I acted so Stupid. And then they admitted it. And I said just real quick.

[Corey]

Apparently it was so egregious that this.

[Heather]

That. And then it's an SEC complaint filing, and they could lose their license, so we'll be doing that next, which is crazy. And so my. Yeah, my takeaway. And these are great questions. Almost slightly embarrassing.

[Corey]

It is embarrassing, but. But, I mean, me and Heather are embarrassing people.

[Heather]

Anyways, fail forward, buddy. And now we got this really great accountant.

[Corey]

Learn from us.

[Heather]

Don't. Yeah, find somebody. Interview them. Interview them again. Interview them every year. And what I wish we'd done with the old accountant is like, what's the strategy? What's your plan for us this year? Instead of just being like, it was definitely passive.

[Corey]

Not a. There was no active thing.

[Heather]

Yeah, you know, a little bit. You sign in to do these jobs and you're like, I just want to do the job. I don't want to do this admin stuff. It's so exhausting. I don't understand it. But it's your business, right? You gotta be a part of business.

[Corey]

Right?

[Heather]

Another one. Not a winner, but you can text in next week.

[Corey]

You're a winner in our hearts.

[Heather]

Win in our hearts, not in our podcast. Hi, twins. Thank you so much for all you do. I love the podcast, the Facebook page, and the cookie college. My name's Carolyn from Carolyn's Cakes in Ohio. I have a stupid question and would love a stupid commentary. Carolyn Texan again next week. My question is about renaming and rebranding my business. I know that you have done an entire podcast on rebranding, but I'm still not feeling confident enough to make make the jump. Every time I start to make some change, I realize everything I'll have to change, and then I completely get overwhelmed and shut it down. My question is this. In what order should I make these changes? Business name with the state website, email address, bakery license, insurance, social media, et cetera. Will I get in trouble if these things do not line up and something happens? Or do I need to make sure and, like, if I'm needed to make an insurance claim, which, by the way, I've never had to do. The funny thing is, I decided over a year ago that I don't want to make cakes anymore, but since it's in my name, I just keep making them. I literally just want to change one letter and go from Carolyn's Cakes to Carolyn's Bakes. How's that for stupid?

[Corey]

I want to say that's a fantastic. That's an easy name switch, though. As far as remembering.

[Heather]

Because I'd be like, oh, that was cakes. Okay, here's what I would do in this order, legal and business first. Those are the ones that, like you said, if you make a claim and they're like, we don't know Carolyn's Bakes. We only know Carolyn's cakes. I would go and change the name with the state. If that's a dba, again, I would get a CPA involved, like just admitted. Get them because they're going to know exactly the business side of things. I would get the CPA involved and. And then I would file with the state and change the name. If that's a DBA or a new entity, the CPA is going to be able to guide you. Yeah. Which that lady did help us at that time. She did. And then I'd go tell insurance. If you have an insurance policy, I would contact the broker or the person that's written the policy and say, I'm changing my name, please update this policy. And send me the updated policy.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

Then I'd go to the state licensure. This is, you know, and say, there's probably a point of contact there. I know some states are rough. Some states don't have any. You guys got your community groups for locality and seeing that. So I have this business license. I want to change my name. Okay, so then we got the legal stuff.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

Now everything else we can kind of play with now.

[Corey]

It's a little bit of a marketing.

[Heather]

Right off the bat. I would go reserve the domain name. We don't have to use it yet. No, we could, we could do that now because you're so close to what you were not relocating your place. I would just. I would make that page announcement. Corey and I. This is kind of where that podcast trips in. I would make that page announcement that you're making a small change in your name. You can bake more than just cakes. Again, we didn't say I'm never baking cakes. We're saying we're introducing more products. We're. We're not telling them we're phasing out cakes. But we're going to start because you're going to say, I don't want to take that order. Yeah.

[Corey]

It's going to be a slow transition. Transition.

[Heather]

You don't be like, no, I don't take cakes. And all these people are like, but you're Carolyn's cakes. Yeah, we're going to be Carolyn's mentally Cakes and bakes. Then we're going to be Carolyn's bakes And then one day we're going to be Carolyn's Cakes. Bakes and no cakes.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

And you're going to do that gradually. Now what I would do is that post. I would post about it multiple times.

[Corey]

Right.

[Heather]

I would let people into, here's the old logo, here's a new logo. And then I'd update my branding and my page name. And that's going to kill off kind of any of those old tags if there's a URL there because you're going to change the URL. And then I would have that new website. I'd have the old domain redirect to the new website. So again, people who think it's Carolyn's cakes are just taken to Carolyn's Bakes.

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah, I'll do that.

[Heather]

That's a great question. It is extremely overwhelming.

[Corey]

It is overwhelming. But you're lucky that your name is so similar and you're not moving.

[Heather]

Corey did a completely giant name change. Did you notice a curb in your orders?

[Corey]

I did, yeah.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Corey]

I did.

[Heather]

Because her name was so different. Carolyn gonna still populate something. So you're pretty. In terms of rebranding, you're in a good spot. Yeah. Corey had to do a complete one. She was the crumble, the crumbed cookies.

[Corey]

Which was very near crumbl cookies.

[Heather]

I was getting so Cory's like, I'm losing my sales or like which she got a bad review from somebody from like Iowa who went to a crumble cookie, didn't like the flavor. That Corey's like, it's gonna end up costing me more in time and management than the stress of switching the name. So then we had to do it and then we kind of did it in that way.

[Corey]

And it was slow. It took, I want to say it was a nine month switch. Switch a Brinsky.

[Heather]

Some of these things will be quick. Some of these things. But that brand, the rebranding, I say give people time to acquaint themselves, to relearn it. Get involved in your community groups before you make the switch. So when you say them, hey, guys, you can let them in on it when you make your sales post that Saturday, guys, I want to let you know I have giving up cakes and I'm baking more. Like I wouldn't say I'm never baking cakes. I would just stop taking those orders as they come in. And as you supplement with these new.

[Corey]

Orders, you're gonna phase out in your social media content and your website content. Cakes are gonna phase out.

[Heather]

You're gonna say, but everyone orders Cakes for me. How can I phase them out? Corey's test bakes. And that's gonna be a great way to be like, hey, guys, I made some rice. Let's say you wanna make sugar cookies or Rice Krispie treats. Hey, hey. Local community group. It's free. I'm looking for some taste testers. I'm Carolyn Bakes and I'm offering Rice Krispies treats. I would love for you guys to come try it. Now you've introduced a new product to your audience that's very conditioned for your kitchen cakes, but now they can be conditioned to your bakes.

[Corey]

It's doable.

[Heather]

Doable. I would not shirk from that one. Yeah, there's some I check from. Which would be Corey's, but she made me do it.

[Corey]

We had it.

[Heather]

Hi, ladies. Sammy from Kodak, Tennessee, home of Buc Ees.

[Corey]

No way.

[Heather]

Just wanted you to know that I hardly ever go to BUC EE's. But I had to go while listening to your last podcast. So thanks a lot. Lol. Thank you for all you do for us.

[Corey]

The power of persuasion.

[Heather]

Okay, one more. Hello, twins. I swear I had some questions, but now that I'm actually. I can't really remember what they are. Same thing happens when I go to write copy. I feel like I have something great and then, poof, it's gone. Anywho, maybe Corey will pick me for the stupid card tray. Fingers crossed. Thank you for all you do. And I can't get enough of the podcast. Your theme song should be Mike and the Mechanics. All I need is a miracle. That's hilarious. So, guys, if you want to enter in to win a stupid card tray, your odds are ever great. They are. Or you may pick a loan number. Okay. Do you think you'll pick a high number next? Probably high number.

[Corey]

A higher number.

[Heather]

If it were me, I may text in a couple times. So you would. If you're listening to this podcast, you want to be towards a higher number you would text in earlier in the week. Yes. Makes sense.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So you would listen to this podcast and text in today. Because then you'd be the highest number that you could possibly.

[Corey]

Interesting. That's how.

[Heather]

Instead of it counting from most recent to older. Oh, so when you pick a high number, you're picking the oldest. No, it's not. Pick a low number. You're picking a text. Okay, good. Last text came in at 9:39.

[Corey]

Like that strategy. If you are like, I don't want to play the Corey and Heather stupid car tray game. Stupid questions. You can use the code. What is it?

[Heather]

Sugar sugar 15 off. Stackable. So if the stupid car Tray.com is running any additional sales, you can stack that 15 on top. They said it's our small gift to the cookie.

[Corey]

Nice.

[Heather]

I love. But if you want to text in 571-556-5644 and to my winner, which was. Was it 281?

[Corey]

218?

[Heather]

No, 281.

[Corey]

281.

[Heather]

Gordon just makes them up. I did too. Email me heather sugarcookingmarketing.com with the rest of your phone number and I'll give you that link to that.

[Corey]

Seven days.

[Heather]

Seven days. God. And then I moving on to the cookie college. I know you're coming out with our next cookie class kit. The next cookie. Tell us what the cookie college is.

[Corey]

Okay. What the cookie college is is a membership. If you're like, you know what, I want to focus on the value of my business in 2025 so I can start charging more. That is what the cookie college is all about. It's everything marketing that we have done for our clients. But translated that's a great point.

[Heather]

I would say most of the courses create a value added addition to your business. So we're saying like hey, here's how to take photos. I know you're working on a reels course. Here's that's going to be the content, the better photography. And then I'm telling you how to make a website, how to make a custom email, how to print your 3D cookie cutters at home which allows you to do more value added and lower cost because you're taking the price of the cutters home.

[Corey]

Absolutely.

[Heather]

So a lot of the focus of the cookie college is those value added things and none of it's really about skills of baking.

[Corey]

It's not.

[Heather]

You throw in some like Dragon Eye random tutorial, but most of it is this value added increase. So you do not have to compete on price and we charge accordingly. So I know it's not the cheapest thing. $76 a month, why would we chart? Why would you not discount it? So more people sign up. Because the more people that sign up at $76, the more time we have to tell you how to increase your value.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Because a lot I get a ton of emails, right. I get a ton of emails with questions or how do I do this, how to change that, how to cancel and that's a ton of effort. But if I had a thousand emails, you're never gonna. I'm Never gonna have time to do this.

[Corey]

The people that post in the private group, the cookie college private group wouldn't get the answers because Heather's doing all the admin tasks.

[Heather]

Cause there's too many people. Right. So back to the value added. So if you say this year to increase my value because I would like to increase my price or I'd like to increase my value because I feel like I'm getting ghosted on price or I'd like to increase my value because I had lowered my price when I wasn't coming from the. Yeah, a self esteem was coming from the others esteem and I would like to get that back up. Then the cookie college is going to be that nice fit to up that balance.

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah. But the cookie college actually gets everything. That's always been our statement. So if we make something new, the cookie college gets it. And that's where the, the value is at. So this actually next week, this week that we're in is the next cookie class kits. The cookie class kits is a membership in and of itself. How much is that per month?

[Heather]

63.

[Corey]

It's $63. And there's different themes. You get a new theme each and every month. This theme is a Mother's Day theme. I made it yesterday.

[Heather]

So you may be saying, well, Mother's Day is so far away, girlies. We drop the themes at least a month and a half out. So you have that much time to promote the class. Yes. Source. The cutters get the colors.

[Corey]

Yeah. But what you get in the cookie class kits is you get the photos, I take the photos.

[Heather]

I have all the prompts that value. So you, you are able to purchase the value without having to invest in the Canon macro line. How much is your camera set up to take this phone?

[Corey]

$4,000.

[Heather]

So instead of spending $4,000, Cory's like, I'll take the photos for you and I'll write the copy for you so you don't have to take lessons on copy. And that way you can fill seats. Now Corey and I charge per seat $80, which is ridiculous because the average price is $50. You may say, well, maybe I should charge $50 to be competitive. Cory and I are competing on value. So we say, listen, there's 10 seats. We're going to sell out of these. We've already sold out of our class. That's in April. We started selling tickets for our class in August. Because we compete on value.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

And we can do that because of the photography. So Corey takes these really awesome photos. These really cute Sets and then I write this really fun copy and then we actually use Eventbrite because I do like it as an event.

[Corey]

It keeps communication up, which is great in class. The value that we can add in class is we have a script. We gave it to the cookie college. It's something that me and Heather have memorized over the last five years.

[Heather]

It's been nice, Corinne, like we could switch our roles.

[Corey]

But what it does is it keeps the vibes up in class. They're having a good time because there's no downtime. We've rehearsed the jokes, we know which ones land, which ones don't.

[Heather]

If someone comes and they've taken a class, we're going to say, I say I'm sorry. The jokes haven't changed. But your laugh is appreciated. Yeah. So it's been great.

[Corey]

If you want to teach classes. The heyday for classes is August to December.

[Heather]

I'm sorry, it's August, September, October, November, December it is.

[Corey]

But what we say is get a few under your belt.

[Heather]

I agree.

[Corey]

I would not want to do to start off with.

[Heather]

I would not want to do baptism by fire. When you pack out a December class and it's your first one, you don't know what's going on. So somebody was like my first class is in selling law. And I was like your is your first class ever? How many people are it for? That's a perfect amount.

[Corey]

That's a perfect first class.

[Heather]

Yeah. You may even be operating if you have a room rental cost. You may be operating at, you know, a net.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Neither gain nor loss but you get the experience on and four people is so easy to manage. Yeah, it'd be great. That would be fantastic. That's why the Mother's Day class. Mother's Day class. A class in a slower time. This is a cookier slower time. We get through Easter, got a little bump and then we get that dooms of summer. That's a good time to get started to source the room you want to rent or see if you could do a partnership where you don't have to run the room at all. And then to kind of get the figure out how Eventbrite works or post it to your website.

[Corey]

Uh huh. Get your get your feet wet in it. The Mother's day class also makes for a great either set to sell or a DIY kit for the littles to decorate for their mom on that day.

[Heather]

Don't want to sell it to a mom. Sell it to somebody that's wow wow. If you wow, wow I see what you did. I see what you did. Hey, listen, we're going to increase the value. Some of you guys want to sign up. You sign up for the cookie college or the class kits right now, you'd get that class because it'll drop on the seventh, assuming Cory sends it to me.

[Corey]

I'm working, so you'll get that.

[Heather]

And then if you sign up for the class kits, you get all of the 20, 25 classes, which will still be the fourth one. Yeah. And if you sign up for the cookie college, you get all 28 classes. Will be the 28th one.

[Corey]

Yeah. So you're like, 28. Why is there four and 28? The cookie college gets all the classes in the past years, and this is our third year of doing it, so there's tons and tons of classes.

[Heather]

Yeah. I love the class kits.

[Corey]

I hate making the class kits.

[Heather]

Corey hates baking the class.

[Corey]

Next one after Mother's Day is Cinco de Mayo. So that's a little fun one.

[Heather]

That'll be a fun.

[Corey]

A little fun one.

[Heather]

Yeah, I know. It's. They've been fun.

[Corey]

I've. I've enjoyed every single one.

[Heather]

They've been fun. I've written scripted, everyone.

[Corey]

I hate having to come up with the ideas, because that is hard, because you want to get everyone in mind. But I enjoy.

[Heather]

Makes it a family event. She comes over to my mom's house. She says, everyone, put your phones down. Everyone put your distractions away.

[Corey]

And I'm like, what do we think about this? This design?

[Heather]

Wow. We love it. So that is the cookie college. It allows us to run this podcast. So thank you for the members who do pay into that. And I think it is a great buy. If someone's like, well, they just talk about themselves and how great it is. It's because it's great. It's great. If I don't believe it's great, I wouldn't be offering it to you.

[Corey]

Of course, that pricing confidence we were talking about.

[Heather]

And I think if you implemented. If you took every one of those 83 classes, soon to be 84, and you implemented it, your business would look completely different. It would. Of that. I can be confident because I've implemented this stuff for a lot of businesses.

[Corey]

You're like, heather, why are you so confident? The reason why we're confident is the thousands of bakers who have been in it.

[Heather]

Well, Corey and I say this, like, in the. In the marketing and social media web development space, like Corey, like, the reason our biggest detriment is that we won't lie.

[Corey]

I know.

[Heather]

Because it'll be like, yeah, we can do that, but we can't do that because that doesn't make sense. And that's not how it works. Right. And you won't see the results that you're hoping from this, from implementing.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So not only am I not going to charge you for, I'm not going to offer to you. And Cory's like that somebody's going to come in and offer that to them, even though they know they can't get the results they want. And they're going to get the. The sale for sure, but they're also going to get the blowback. So what Cory and I say, the biggest boon, the biggest. We're telling the truth. Because people have been in for three and a half years.

[Corey]

Whatever happened in vacation Bible school when me and Heather were five, where they say, do not tell a lie, we have taken it to heart. I cannot tell it.

[Heather]

Is it George Washington? I said George Washington. And y'all, cherry chairs at the Lincoln. Lincoln who? To Cherry tree.

[Corey]

Lincoln.

[Heather]

I think it was.

[Corey]

I think it was Lincoln President. I think it was Cherry chain.

[Heather]

Speak now forever hold your peace.

[Corey]

Blank Wash. No. Yeah, Washington, Cherry Tre.

[Heather]

I get this.

[Corey]

Anyways, moving on to our sponsors. Also, without the sponsors, this podcast would not exist. And we love our sponsors. First up is Royal Batch. So you're like, what is Royal Batch? Royal batch is a meringue powder. If you're working with royal icing, the main ingredient in royal icing, that makes it. Royal icing is a meringue powder. There's many different types out there. You're going to find a lot of people who prefer one over the other. I've tried them all.

[Heather]

I'm sorry. I looked up if Lincoln said anything about lying. Yeah, one quote, pretty good one. Okay. No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar. Oh, that's true.

[Corey]

That's true.

[Heather]

Especially with love.

[Corey]

Anyways, Royal batch is made by a company called Bakey Bake, and it is the meringue powder that I use. If you see any of my cookies, you're like, I like that puff that she had. Has. It's because of Royal Batch. It's nothing that I did. Royal batch has three main ingredients already in it, which is vanilla, so you don't have to add any to it. But if you want to, do you.

[Heather]

Two white food coloring.

[Corey]

White food coloring. I want to say somebody, some people like almond extract. If you put almond extract in your cookies and you have vanilla and icing.

[Heather]

That whatever that is a cilantro. The baking world.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

But a lot of people cilantro, they.

[Corey]

Have a very good experience with almond extract. Mother loves almond extract.

[Heather]

Almond extract or no asking a poll in the page. Okay, good, good Almond emoji. Is there an almond emojis? It's kind of almondy. He looks like an acorn with no dough. Okay. I like it on extra. I'm just gonna say okay.

[Corey]

But it has white food coloring in it. It has vanilla extract and it has corn syrup. What corn syrup does to royal icing. It gives it a softer bite. So if you just want it really good right out of the bag.

[Heather]

No, I want to it really bad. Right?

[Corey]

Really bad. If you don't want have to add a bunch of extra stuff. Royal batch is the bee's needs. It is what I use for my cookies. Code twin saves you 10%.

[Heather]

Nice. Yeah.

[Corey]

And they have these now two ounce pack little packets if you want to test it.

[Heather]

Great. Have to dive deep. Leaving you. It'd be a great place to test something.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Eddie edible food printer. A great way to add value, but definitely has a prize. Somebody asked about this on the stupid question. They said, should I get an Eddie? Should I take on debt or spend money and get the Eddie right now?

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Like she's like, I've never sold anything that's Eddie. So I have no buddy to sell it to.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And I was like, yeah. Consider this as if you wanted an SBA loan, right. You would write a business plan. Because the SBA loan is like, I want to know that before I give you this money, you know how you're going to give it back to me. Yes, I would do the same thing for an Eddie. It's a direct to food printer. What's your plan to market this? Because Eddie is not. If you buy it, they will. If you buy it, they will buy it. It it is. Eddie is. If you buy it and you market it and market it. Market and market it. Some will buy it. And hopefully those are corporate orders. How are you planning to market it now? Eddie is a three thousand dollar machine direct to food printer. Meaning stencils, very ornate designs, very complex logos. You can just print that, right?

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

You can pipe over it if you want to add the extra pizzazz. Would you just buy one? Yes, I would. If I had the money. I'm not a big taker on debtor. If I had the money, I'd buy one. If I had a plan, yes, I would buy one. And if I had started and I had a Lot of my value added things in there. So I have a website where I can put the Eddy feature on it.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

If I had an order form, if I had a LinkedIn that I've been growing so I can reach those corporate orders, I would do that.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

I think it would be great to buy an Eddie and then turn around to a community group and say hey, any business owners I bought this machine. It's a direct food printer. Food safe. Yeah. Inc. I would love to print your logo on a cookie to use as an example marketing. And you guys get the cookies for sure.

[Corey]

Yeah. I mean you're not the marketing you're making off of that with the slim. You're just making.

[Heather]

Imagine running that as an ad on Facebook. You're looking at $100 an ad spent.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So that would be a cheaper way and a great way to market and pay for the Eddie if you wanted to buy him now. Otherwise put allocate money from each sale.

[Corey]

Towards your Eddie and then pay for.

[Heather]

Them outright when you get the chance.

[Corey]

Last but not least is the Backers Co. The backers co is a a way to transform your home into a photography studio without having to remodel the house value same. Yeah. If you see any of the photos that I take you can look on mixing bowl cookie company on Instagram you can look in the sugar cookie marketing group. It's always taken on these 23 by 23 inch backdrops. These backdrops can transform your home into a small photography studio without remodeling the entire house. And they don't take up a ton of space. Face the reason why I do like them. I do like a rigid backdrop. The ones that roll up, we all girl have a roll when you take the photo and it's sometimes the roll sends the the lighting.

[Heather]

Don't like that. I don't want to say curled brick.

[Corey]

I don't like a girl.

[Heather]

I don't like it.

[Corey]

It's also matte so there's no glare. It's food safe. That's the number one reason why I had actually originally found them, sought them out and tested them. And I said a lock what you make, it's waterproof. So if you spill eggs on it. I put an egg.

[Heather]

You're not spilling eggs. Yeah.

[Corey]

I chocolate sauce and it washes right out. Yeah.

[Heather]

Whatever you and I do behind closed doors, we do not want to know. Yeah.

[Corey]

Fantastic. But you can use code sugar cookie. Save 20% off of that.

[Heather]

Nice.

[Corey]

I love them. If someone said Corey, what's something you would suggest to help up my photography. It would a thousand percent be a photography backdrop.

[Heather]

I think it's a great value addition. I think it should be almost standard issue.

[Corey]

Standard issue? It's almost like. I don't know what to say outside of that because it's so foundational. Truly, it is the foundation of your photo.

[Heather]

Why? With our eyes. Yeah, yeah. If the. You have the best cookie in the world. If the background is distracting or weird or.

[Corey]

My son had his science project due.

[Heather]

And they said, you had your science project.

[Corey]

I did, yeah. And he was. It said, post as many pictures on the board as you can. So I said, archer, what pictures we got? He showed me this thing taken in his room. I said, no. So not with these photography backgrounds. Drops put two of the backdrops together, took the photos.

[Heather]

We put them up. Yes. Yes. And what grade did you get?

[Corey]

We got an 88.

[Heather]

Not bad.

[Corey]

I left a question mark off of the title.

[Heather]

Also, he gave you less than eight hours to produce. Yeah.

[Corey]

You know what? Honestly, I earned the 80. I was very happy with it.

[Heather]

Twin trust. We got one.

[Corey]

Do you have one?

[Heather]

This cat? Kitten? Haven't. Turns out I've not ever had a kitten before.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

Right. Insane, this thing.

[Corey]

I've forgotten about the kitten ways. It's been so my. My entertainment is 15, 14 years old. It's been a hot minute since I've been. He was a kitten and I can't remember.

[Heather]

Yeah, I don't either.

[Corey]

I know.

[Heather]

So anyways, this thing, like, it's like, can you play with me at all times? If you're not playing with me, can you pet me? If you're not petting me, I'm gonna scream.

[Corey]

When I left here last week, I appreciated the age of my elderly pets.

[Heather]

Right? So I'm like, last night, I'm sitting on the fl. He's like, meowing.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Because he just wants to be played with when I'm trying to learn, procreate. And he's biting my apple pencil, which is like a hundred dollars. So I said, you know what? He seems to like anything that's on a stick. So I bought these two Amazon cat toys. And one's this little fake mouse that runs under this little tarp.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And it looks like a mouse is trying to get away. Loved it. The other one is this real jiggly thing.

[Corey]

He like that one?

[Heather]

Sorry. Yeah, he loved it. Yeah. So, I mean, it bought me an hour of peace.

[Corey]

It's just a little baby. I love him to pieces. I love that I can leave.

[Heather]

Everyone's like, Gucci goo bye.

[Corey]

Yeah, that's what it's like.

[Heather]

If you had a kid, I'd be like, gucci goo bye. This is as close as we're getting, buddy. They are very cute. They are cute. My Amazon purchases last night, they showed up on my. I ordered them at 9:30 last night. They were here this morning.

[Corey]

Value.

[Heather]

And I.

[Corey]

You know what?

[Heather]

In value and price. I did not buy the cheaper thing that would take till August 1 to get it to me. I bought the one that was more expensive because it would get to me tomorrow and then say I was insane.

[Corey]

Yeah, insane. Insane.

[Heather]

Did they just go to the Petco and hand me. What does that pet go? How did it get here so fast? Where did it come from? Where's the warehouse?

[Corey]

I guess my marketing nugget. I do like to support local businesses and Etsy shops. It's my favorite thing. I found this lady, she posted in a local community group to your twin or your marketing?

[Heather]

My twin.

[Corey]

It is marketing too. She makes custom stickers. Oh. And I said, what a way to support a local business. And if she likes me enough, she could support my business for me supporting her business.

[Heather]

A little covert.

[Corey]

Little covert contract. She doesn't know I bake cookies. Well, she knows now because it's in the business name. And she probably had to stare at it because I ordered 75 of them. So she's staring at custom 75 times.

[Heather]

Are they your logos?

[Corey]

Yeah, they're in the mail. She got a notification. Yeah, but I. So in turn, what it's going to allow me to do is give guilty.

[Heather]

Me from buying on Amazon. Which by all means, but. Whoa.

[Corey]

No, I'm just saying a little marketing.

[Heather]

He's like, unlike Heather.

[Corey]

Unlike Heather, who likes to support. I'm sorry, that's me. Big corporations. I like to support small business.

[Heather]

My twin dress is supporting my twin Trust.

[Corey]

That is all we have for you guys today.

[Heather]

That was our battle, man.

[Corey]

That was a battle. Mr. Munch. We're naming him Dennis the Menace now.

[Heather]

Dennis. Mr. Dennis Munch. Dennis Menace. Mun.

[Corey]

Dennis.

[Heather]

Minnesota wild man.

[Corey]

You like him?

[Heather]

Okay, now I can ramble. Because if you don't want to listen, you don't have to. I'm not pro negative reinforcement. I like to let things learn their own way. I don't like to punish, to teach. Right. Okay, get Ruthanne. She was like, I don't want him upstairs. I don't want a cat upstairs. And she's like. Because I want to step on them. So it's a fair thing. So I Was like, what you can do for animals is let them go upstairs, but shut all the doors. When they realize there's nothing here, they don't come. And she's like, no, that's too kind. I want spike strips. Spike strips, Right. So it turns out you have them on your furniture.

[Corey]

I do have them on.

[Heather]

I gave.

[Corey]

I gave Rub. No, no, no, listen.

[Heather]

Rube's like, 15 years, got his crutches out.

[Corey]

Rube has one chair I've given to her, okay? There's no spikes on there. She has that chair.

[Heather]

Chair. So these little plastic. Just thin, little. It just makes it uncomfortable to walk on. So they don't want. Right. So with hands, like, I want the spike strips. And I'm like, okay. Like she did. What are you gonna say? Right? So I just deployed these spike strips. I got them on the two bottom stairs because this guy could. Once you get to the one, you're not gonna get to the second. And he has stopped going upstairs, so he has no interest in a bright orange. So I thought, like. Because she needs to see him. No, I want to bring the embassy, though. So I'm.

[Corey]

They're unsightly.

[Heather]

They're unsightly. It looks like a torture.

[Corey]

It looks like I'm entering a confession.

[Heather]

Mikey said, crimes of war. Yeah. So I'm like, okay. It just. Just temporarily. Why? I kind of learns not to go up there. It's not my way of teaching. It's her house, though. She. Okay. So then I hear this loud crash, so. But the cat's sitting with me. So I'm like, what was that? So I yell up, is everything okay? And she's like, you know that. Where you're injured and you don't. She was like, I'm fine. I said, oh, there's an I'm fine. I wasn't expecting a personal I'm fine. So I said, what happened? And she's like, I tried to jump. She's. I tried to jump.

[Corey]

Jumping two steps.

[Heather]

Two steps. So then I'm like, hey, listen, you're one hip replacement away from this being a massive problem. No jumping right. Look at her. She removes only one spike strip. I said, what are you doing right there? She's like, well, I was gonna jump over one. I said, we're not jumping at all. At 86, there's no Olympics.

[Corey]

At 86, one foot on the ground all times.

[Heather]

Okay? Please keep in mind these are just plastic. Little plastic. They're not anchored to me. No. On Sunday, did you. I thought we'd learned a lesson on Sunday, she steps on them. They. They just deflated. But also they're slippery. And I said, woman, what we got.

[Corey]

To do to teach you a lesson?

[Heather]

I think we're not teaching the cat no more.

[Corey]

We're teaching 1086. When you no longer work and you're retired, you create your own struggles.

[Heather]

She creates them. She found it. She was like, I'm going to make these spice strips. So then she was like, I think the cat has learned, so I'm not going to put the spike strip. He immediately went upstairs. I said, lady, that be the death of me. I said, I can't think for the three of us.

[Corey]

Let's go eat. I'm so hungry.