230. Baking it Down - Nothing Old, Nothing New

Summary

Podcast Summary: Baking it Down with Sugar Cookie Marketing 🍪

Episode 230: "Nothing Old, Nothing New"

Host(s): Heather & Corrie Miracle
Air Date: September 23, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Heather and Corrie dig deep into the critical topic of retaining returning clients in the home-baking business, especially as it relates to sugar cookie marketers. With a blend of strategic advice and candid, light-hearted anecdotes, they explore why so many bakers struggle to keep repeat business and how marketing habits, business changes, and even drama can impact client loyalty. The episode is packed with actionable tips, marketing psychology, and reminders to focus on consistency—delivered in their signature upbeat, slightly goofy, sisterly banter.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Returning Clients Matter

• Returning clients are the lowest cost to acquire and the highest value to retain.
  • [03:48, Heather]: "The returning client is the cheapest one. You may say, but what if I had to send out flyers twice? You can’t look at it that way… The client who said, 'I had a great experience the first time, so I'm coming back.' That is the cheapest lead acquisition for any company."
• Referring clients are powerful: They may not buy often, but their word-of-mouth is irreplaceable.

2. Cost of Client Acquisition: Understanding the Investment

• Heather breaks down the real cost—time and money—of getting a new client, and why a client's second (and third) orders are basically "free" from an acquisition standpoint.
  • [03:40, Corey]: "The initial knocking? $500. The second knock? Free."

3. Factors That Cause Loss of Returning Clients

a. Taking Breaks or Being Inconsistent

• Extended breaks, especially during customer milestones (birthdays, holidays), can make clients "try out" a new baker.
  • [08:30, Corey]: "If you take big breaks or take the summer off, you're going to lose returning clients."
  • [09:09, Heather]: "A baker baking with big breaks is still better than the baker who quit... but you will lose returning clients."

b. Constantly Changing Offerings or Pivoting the Business

• Switching focus/products without warning (e.g., from cookies to cakes, or custom orders to only corporate orders) alienates old clients.
  • [11:02, Heather]: "Someone knocks on your door… 'I’d like to order more.' 'I don’t do cookies anymore.' You have lost a returning client."
• Teaching classes, focusing only on Eddie prints, or other pivots can shift your repeat client base.

c. Being Difficult to Find or Remember

• Not having a website or consistent online presence (or business name confusion) means clients won’t “find their way back.”
  • [13:04, Heather]: "If it's hard for me to remember where I bought from... I don’t believe I'll find it."
• Overly generic or overused business names (“Cory’s Cookies,” “Life’s a Batch”) add confusion.

d. Irregular Social Media Activity

• Clients interpret months-old posts or outdated bios as “closed,” and move on.
  • [15:46, Corey]: "When I go to their social media and they haven’t posted in seven months... I can’t tell if you’re there."

e. Frequent Rebranding & Profile Changes

• Drastic, sudden rebrands cause confusion, even if the products are the same.
• Changing logos, profile photos, or business names without prepping your audience leads to lost recognition and repeat business.
  • [19:10, Heather]: "If you're constantly rebranding, it will cause audience confusion and you will lose returning clients."

f. Neglecting to Stay "Top of Mind"

• Failing to send newsletters, emails, or regular communications means you’re forgotten by once-a-year customers.
  • [23:24, Heather]: "If you’re not staying top of mind with your current book of business, you will be losing clients."

g. Engaging in Drama or Polarizing Online Behavior

• Mixing business with hot-button topics or online arguments repels a segment of buyers, sometimes with delayed effect.
  • [29:47, Heather]: "If you involve your baking business… in drama, don’t be surprised when drama shows up at the front door."

h. Muddled Marketing: Selling to Multiple Audiences

• Switching focus from end-buyers to bakers (e.g., affiliate links, supply recommendations) dilutes your message and confuses customers about what you actually offer.
  • [38:18, Corey]: "If I know I want to order cookies and I go to your social... and you’re making shirts… I'm gonna see that as the end user who hasn’t used you for one year and say they're no longer baking."

4. Strategic Tips for Retaining Returning Clients

a. Consistency, Consistency, Consistency

• Keep core offerings consistent; use limited editions to inject excitement, but don’t change the basics people come back for.
  • [52:01, Corey]: "A great thing is seasonal offerings, seasonal flavors... not a promise of being around all the time."
• Consistency in posting, branding, and communication is key.

b. Be Easy to Find & Recognize

• Maintain simple, memorable business names and branding; keep profile pics/logos stable.
• Invest in minimal—but reliable—online avenues like a Google Business Profile, even before a full website.

c. Rebrand with Caution

• If a rebrand is necessary, “soft land” it: use phrases like “formerly XYZ Cookies.” Keep old URLs redirecting to new ones.
  • [19:50, Heather]: "We tried to soft landing the rebrand by saying, 'formerly the crumbed cookies'…"

d. Stay Top of Mind

• Use newsletters, referral programs, small surprise gifts, or customer delight strategies (like Chewy’s empathetic approach with grieving pet owners) to keep your business in client memories.
  • [27:29, Heather]: "That client referring Corey and still buying from you is producing so much more income than if she wasn’t there."
• Birthday reminders or seasonal emails can trigger return orders.

e. Reward and Recognize Referrals

• Referral incentives can be simple ($5 gift cards, sample cookies) and still work wonders.
  • [61:42, Heather]: "A small $5 gift card as a thank you to a referral… If one client can bring in three clients, is it $5?"

f. Keep Messaging Clear

• Maintain a clear distinction between selling to customers and selling to other bakers or industry peers.
• If you must serve two audiences (e.g., affiliate marketing and custom orders), consider separate pages or careful content segmentation.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Client Acquisition:
  "The returning client is the cheapest one. You may say, but what if I had to send out the flyers twice? You can't look at it that way." – Heather [03:48]

• On Burnout vs. Consistency:
  "A baker baking with big breaks is still better than the baker who quit, in terms of business strategy. However, you will lose returning clients." – Heather [09:09]

• On Social Proof:
  "When I go to their social media and they haven't posted in seven months, I can't tell if you're there… That gives me the doubt that I'll see the product, you know, that social proof." – Corey [15:46]

• On Drama:
  "If you involve your baking business page, if you involve your bakery in drama, don't be surprised when drama shows up at the front door." – Heather [30:25]

• On Dual Audiences:
  "If you’re teaching classes and you have a really good spatula from Amazon...that the person who wants to learn how to bake cookies could benefit better from that than your random customer who doesn’t want to bake at all." – Corey [59:39]

---

Practical Takeaways (With Timestamps)

[07:25] – Consider Your Location’s Transience

If you’re in a place with lots of turnover (military, college towns), expect higher churn and account for that in your strategy.

[13:03] – Make Yourself Searchable & Memorable

• Use simple, easy-to-remember business names.
• Have a Google Business Profile or website to be found online.

[16:14] – Social Proof & Activity

• Regular updates signal you’re open; months-old posts imply closure.

[21:21] – Branding Consistency

• Don’t change your profile picture or logo too often. Your profile image often is the “hook” customers remember and use to find you.

[23:24] – Cross Touch Points Regularly

• Touch base with prior clients using newsletters or personal touches.

[27:14] – Delight Clients Cheaply

• “Baking extra cookies for a great client who refers you? Best ROI.” – Heather

[38:18] – Avoid Muddled Messaging

• Only pitch affiliate links, shop links, or teaching to an audience suited to it.

[52:54] – Be Consistent on Socials

• Aim for 2-3 posts per week; consistency wins.
• Avoid giant “photo dumps” after months of absence.

---

Listener Q&A and Group Engagement

[72:22] – Teaching Classes at Home
Brianna asks if it’s “weird” to host classes at home vs. renting a space. Heather and Corey suggest:

• Showcase your home (photos, videos, livestreams) to reassure, and test community venues only if your home venue caps you out profit-wise.

[78:00] – The 5:3:1 Instagram Engagement Rule
Allison from Ontario mentions engaging with others by liking 5 posts, commenting on 3, and following 1 new account daily. The twins love any consistent engagement system to spur real connections and growth.

---

Summary of Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |----------------------------------------------|-------------| | Opening banter + episode theme intro | 00:00–02:13 | | Why returning clients matter | 03:33–04:11 | | Cost of acquisition explained | 02:38–04:03 | | Losing retaining clients: factors | 06:46–34:12 | | Social proof & relevance | 15:46–18:52 | | Rebranding risks | 19:10–22:39 | | Staying top of mind | 23:24–27:29 | | Drama & online reputation pitfalls | 28:15–35:36 | | Dual audience “muddling” explained | 37:14–41:10 | | Consistency as the ultimate solution | 50:01–54:06 | | Community Q&A: Class location, engagement | 72:22–78:51 |

---

Tone & Language

Heather and Corrie maintain a playful, affable tone—full of puns, sibling ribbing, and lots of cookie metaphors. Their advice is direct and nuanced, but never condescending. They’re open about their own mistakes and successes, making it easy for listeners to feel included and understood.

---

Closing Thoughts

This episode reinforces that consistent, focused, and personable marketing is the backbone of a thriving home bakery. Chasing new trends, constant pivots, or dramatic viral moments rarely foster repeat business. Instead, it's those steady, small touches—the consistent menu, memorable branding, staying in touch, and respecting your audience—that “make that dough” over and over again.

---

"Consistent effort creates consistent results. I wish there was a shortcut... but it is so much more than that. And when all of that works together, you’ll win." – Heather [64:24]

---

Next Steps for Listeners

• Audit your last year for client return rates—what habits might be repelling return business?
• Commit to at least two avenues of marketing consistency this quarter (posting, emailing, or in-person gifting).
• Consider your branding and website: would a new client or a client from a year ago easily find and recognize you?
• Steer clear of drama—focus on the joy of baking and the delight of your customers.

---

Want more in-depth help? Check out The Cookie College and their Facebook group for ongoing marketing advice.

---

(Podcast intro, outro, and sponsor ads have been omitted from this summary for your listening convenience.)

Transcript

[Corey]

Welcome to the Baking it down with Sugar Cookie Marketing podcast. This is your host Corey and Heather. Thank you for flying with Miracle Airlines.

[Heather]

I'm gonna try this podcast to touch my lips together when I form a word and I know everyone's cheering right there. Please don't cheer too loudly.

[Corey]

It's making forget slower.

[Heather]

And they're like, oh, this is so much better. But they don't understand. It's my lips. Don't touch.

[Corey]

It's been 36 years of just open teeth. Teeth to air.

[Heather]

Sometimes I say something and I say, what was that?

[Corey]

Welcome to the Sugar Cookie Marketing podcast. We are your host, Corey and Heather. We are a spin off from a group that is on Facebook. The group is 49,000 bakers strong. We'd love to have you in there. What we do is see what's happening in the world of cookies, in the world of baking. Trending concerns, changes. As you heard with the Cast Iron podcast, we've did of what websites to use this week. Strategy, Strategy. We like to bring it back homeschool, you know, strategy, bring it back to us.

[Heather]

This is episode 229.

[Corey]

We've been back.

[Heather]

We're going to be bringing it back. However, I do think that there is merit to listening to strategy and applying it yourself. I find myself listening to audiobooks on the same topic and finding in each book a little marketing. Never know how a little diffie, a little something. And I'm like, if that's all I took from this was worth the 11 hours. Also, if you're writing a book, what if we didn't make them allow 11 hours long? Like, what if. What if it was four?

[Corey]

I'm so sorry. Because a book on a pedestal in the bookstore can't look like a four hour.

[Heather]

I want an abridged audiobook.

[Corey]

That's an Amelia Bedelia take.

[Heather]

All your little stories. And I know you probably say if you guys took your stories out of the podcast, it would be two minutes long. But in the audiobook, 11 hours is.

[Corey]

A lot of commitment. But when you look at a book, I know I wanted value.

[Heather]

Juicy.

[Corey]

You want it to be long. If the book is $16 tiny words, you can't be small.

[Heather]

I want all the knowledge. But 11 hours is a long time. It's a long time.

[Corey]

Speaking of the strategy we're talking about today, my sister, on this weekend that we had together, my younger sister said randomly, do you have a lot of repeat clients?

[Heather]

That was an interesting unprovoked question. It was, it was so returning clients. You've Heard us say it here before are the cheapest clients because the cost of acquisition already been expended.

[Corey]

So explain cost of acquisition.

[Heather]

Great. There's a time cost and a monetary cost of acquisition. Right. So you could have the cost of acquisition being a flyer. You mailed out two. If, let's say you do you everyday direct mail, which is through USPS. Let's say I print off 250 flyers.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

At $500. Then I mail them out. We're going to say the $500 includes mailing costs. One client comes to me out of that $500. The cost of acquisition for that one client could be attributed to $500 per client. Two clients come from that $250 per client. If three, you get it. So the cost per acquisition from that client was already expended. The first time I sent the flyers out, that same client knocks on my door 365 days later to place a second birthday order. My kid is turning two. They were turning one last year. The cost of acquisition had already been expended that first time. Yeah.

[Corey]

So the cost was $500. When they knock on your door again in 365 days, it really takes that.

[Heather]

Cost of $500 and really divides it in two. I got them twice. Yeah, but that's not the way to look at it. We should look at it as in the re knocking of the door. It was free.

[Corey]

Exactly. So the initial knocking, 500, the second knock free.

[Heather]

So always for that reason. The returning client is the cheapest one. You may say. But what if I had to send out the flyers twice? You can't look at it that way. The client that return. No action of your own.

[Corey]

The returning client.

[Heather]

The client who said, I had a great experience the first time, so I'm coming back. That is the cheapest lead acquisition for any company.

[Corey]

Let me bring it to the. To the baker's world. The average home baker, we don't have probably $500 laying around to send out postcards. So what we do as home bakers is we join a bunch of local community groups. We post religiously in five different groups.

[Heather]

So you got. Probably got a digital subscription cost, possibly Canva. And then we have the time cost.

[Corey]

Time. Lots of time. So the baker's biggest cost is their time.

[Heather]

Right.

[Corey]

We might sign up for the school's pta. We're donating cookies to the pta.

[Heather]

Time and money costs.

[Corey]

Time and money. The person who's in those five groups has seen us. Seen us. They're probably part of our School's pta. They. They maybe were able to taste the product there, and they've come now to be a client.

[Heather]

Well, now they're an expensive client. It took them two different acquisition sources, which people call them touch points. And there's the rumored 21 touch points before conversion. It does require me to get touched more than once for me to convert.

[Corey]

To buy.

[Heather]

To buy.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So we have two major things here. The returning client is the cheapest, so it's already the best use of time. And then we have the referring client being the strongest referral source. So my grandmother came to me and she threw a book that gets mailed out every year here, and it was like, best of Fairfax businesses best picks. Best picks, yeah. And she said, why aren't your clients listed in this book? And I said, because when was the last time you chose a company from that book? And she said, I never have. So I said, well, let's. Let's go through that methodology with you. I said, you got your roof done, and you have become the largest single referral source for that sales guy. He stops by to say hello. That's how many people she's recommended him to. I said, where did you find him? While I was on a walk and a neighbor was getting his roof done. He was standing outside, and I asked him his experience.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So now we have the returning client is the cheapest and the referring client is the strongest.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So two reasons why we should have. We should focus our marketing efforts on that returning client.

[Corey]

Yeah. The thing is, returning and referring can sometimes be different people. Ruthanne, my grandmother, you probably get your roof done every 30 years. She's not probably going to be a.

[Heather]

Returning client, but she is certainly a referring client.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Those are big purchases. With cookies, I think we have. We have ability.

[Corey]

It's a lot closer. A lot closer.

[Heather]

Of course, we'll need a lot more referrals than the roof guy with the $15,000 roof. However, we can now see that if we could focus on returning clients and referring returning clients.

[Corey]

Yum.

[Guest/Caller]

Yes.

[Heather]

Delect.

[Corey]

So delish.

[Heather]

We're going to reverse engineer this one. Let's talk about the reasons why you're not getting returning clients.

[Corey]

You might be listening to this podcast and you're like, hmm, do I have a lot of returning clients? Maybe you don't. There's a few factors in your control and out of your control that can lead to not having returning clients.

[Heather]

Corey has a returning client, which is, I think, how you answered this question to her. Cori has this great Returning client, also a referring client, sent her an email and said, I just want to let you know, I'm military. I'm getting stationed. Which Cory knew because she had done her promotion cookies, but she's getting stationed overseas. So she said, I just want to let you know it's not you, it's literally me. And the minute I'm back, I'm placing orders again.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Out of your control.

[Corey]

An amazing returning client.

[Heather]

Because something is out of your control doesn't mean it can't. It's not to be acknowledged. Yeah, not in my control. She's. She.

[Corey]

I can't ship.

[Heather]

She's in Germany. We still need to account for it, though, in the loss of returning clients. Because Corey lives in a very transient area, people moving is a part of her market strategy. Right. So she's got a factor. Maybe you live in a town where everybody's ever lived there. Yeah, I know. Ever moves. You don't have to focus on this as much. But Corey needs to factor into her marketing that she does have people leaving just as much as she has people coming.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

Which is why I always say, if marketing isn't working for you, maybe ADD and I live in a rural area. Because your strategy is going to be a bit different.

[Corey]

Yeah. And people who live in one, college towns, tourist towns, military. You have a different strategy that you need to work with.

[Heather]

Your marketing life cycle is quite different. So factor one. And we're just going to talk through these. Although we've come up with the list because we love a list. If you take big breaks or take the summer off, you're going to lose returning clients.

[Corey]

Clients might have. You're like, well, here's the thing. Their birthday is always in August, and you're always baking in August. So you're like, oh, yeah, no, I can get the returning clients. They might have an event in July and you're not baking for.

[Heather]

And now we've lost them.

[Corey]

The problem is when they go find the baker in July who bakes for them, they're probably going to have a pretty sweet experience. Most bakers I know can create sweet experiences for their clients. And that you have now potentially lost this returning client, even though you're baking.

[Heather]

In August, because now they found a baker that bakes both in July and August.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Now you'll see me talking about out both sides of my mouth on this. But it's really not. If you're feeling burnout, take the break.

[Corey]

Sure.

[Heather]

A baker baking with big breaks is still better than the baking the baker who quit in terms of business strategy. Absolutely right. However, in the same vein, if you take the break, you will lose returning clients. It is par for the course and that's why we always try to give it to you straight. So you know how to formulate that strategy.

[Corey]

And it's just knowing. It's knowing that, yes, I am a baker who takes breaks and I'm going to lose clients from it. So my marketing strategy is going to take that into consideration and I'm going.

[Heather]

To account for it because I'm going to have a higher cost of acquisition because I need to get new clients because my returning clients are met with.

[Corey]

A closed door part of the strategy.

[Heather]

Uh, the breaking baking baker strategy.

[Corey]

The breaking baking strategy. The baking breaking baker strategy.

[Heather]

That's.

[Corey]

That's.

[Heather]

Second example. If you're constantly changing up your offerings, you're losing clients. Talking about both sides of the bun right here. Yes, you say, but I'm testing new things. That's great. However, clients are used to what they signed on to. If they come back and that's no longer offered, you may see that. However great business to see what sells. Oh yeah. What the margins are and to cut out the analysis paralysis for sure.

[Corey]

The biggest culprit I see here is cake bakers turning into cookie bakers and cookie bakers turning into cake bakers.

[Heather]

I get, I don't get why the cookie people switch to cakes. I get why the forlorn cake baker finally puts their.

[Corey]

I do want to say if you live in not a humid area, making cakes is a lot faster in a higher profit.

[Heather]

Higher profit. Right. And I'm sure cakes take a ton of talent. It seems like you can whip them out pretty quickly.

[Corey]

It seems like when you figure out.

[Heather]

Whatever what it is you are, you are forced to be recognized.

[Corey]

Yeah, you can, you can, you can.

[Heather]

Bake them and then the cake people.

[Corey]

Get the weddings and one. I don't even know how transportation. Even my brain doesn't fathom that.

[Heather]

But imagine. Okay, you could do the, the. I'm going to focus more on this. But imagine someone knocks on your door, they've ordered cookies from you. They said, I'd like to order more. I don't do cookies anymore. You have lost a returning client.

[Corey]

You've lost a returning client.

[Heather]

Now you need to refocus your marketing efforts on that product. You do want to grow. Definitely a part of business strategy. Definitely going to affect your returning clientele.

[Corey]

Yeah, I do see a lot of cook years say, I no longer want to focus on customs. I get it. Customs take A lot of work and a lot of time. So I'm more focusing on logo corporate clients. You're going to lose clients just for the fact that you're no longer offering customs.

[Heather]

Other transitions. I see. I would like to teach more classes and do fewer customs. That's going to be a transitionary period. The people who come to our classes, I would say one or two buy customs from you, but most of them are just there for classes. Another one I see is people who say I want to do Eddie only prints. And you're. And you're like, where are my clients? They are still looking for piping.

[Corey]

You might not feel this because if you've switched from customs to corporate and you're still just doing corporate, you've probably gotten a good customer base. The where you'll feel it is you're like, oh look, I only do the corporate logo cookies. But a lot of people are asking for customs in the local foodies group. So I'm going to do customs for the holidays and no one's knocking down your door. That's where you're going to feel it.

[Heather]

You're going to feel it. Yeah. So it's that new product offering business strategy. Love it. Higher margin, things I like to do, things I don't like to do, I'm lower margin. I'm going to cut those out. However, that's affecting your returning clients. Something you got to factor in. Well, Heather and Corey, if I don't want to lose returning clients, how what would I do? We'd reverse course there. But is that the best for your business? Right. We're not telling you, we're just telling you the factors involved. A lot of people like to say market saturation and I'd argue that this is probably more likely. Market saturation is definitely a part of it. The reason why that person's able to take your clients is for one of these reasons.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

You'Re not easily searchable. You're losing clients. I see this happen when you don't have a website.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Sometimes I think about my own buying habits. If it's hard for me to remember where I bought from. Yeah, I don't believe I'll find it.

[Corey]

Yeah, for sure.

[Heather]

So I'm going to try to use a bunch of adjectives in Google and see if it can reconnect me to that thought I had. But if you are not easily searchable. So anything that can be searched can be optimized. That's what search engine optimization is. If you don't have a website, you're not being searched in Google. If you're not posting a TikTok, you're not showing up on TikTok. If you're not posting Instagram, you're not. If you have a complex name that uses a lot of misspellings. It's hard for me to remember all the weird spellings.

[Corey]

A very generic name. Cory's Cookies.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Corey]

There's a lot of Coors cookies. If my logo branding is a big one, is just my face and maybe this person did a porch pickup and it's just a random Cory's Cookies, it's going to be hard. What was. How did she spell her name?

[Heather]

Right. And your name is spelled very differently than the typical cor.

[Corey]

You are.

[Guest/Caller]

It is.

[Corey]

And you're like, oh, that's unique. Note when they type in Cory and then it's my face and they've never really like they couldn't make out my facial features in a crowd.

[Heather]

Going to be hard. Google business got suspended because you were incorrectly listed. You're not searchable in that aspect anymore. So we have to always. And there's componen of each of these. We gotta think about it can't be the only focus. But if I'm not searchable, if I'm not easily findable, people won't refind me.

[Corey]

And another one. If you're not easily memorable. Memorable. Rememberable. Memorable.

[Heather]

Memorable.

[Corey]

No Ari.

[Heather]

Rememberable. Memorable.

[Corey]

If you're really worth remembering, you're rememberable.

[Heather]

If you're just so. So you're memorable. I always tell clients is they're like we rank highest for a name. And I said the reason why you rank highest for name is people who already knew you were searching you. Right. So ranking highest for your name means you're memorable.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

But are you easily findable in terms of cookie baker near me versus Cory's Cookies. I know, right? The intention there.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Likely both of them want to spend money, but one has already been acquired in a different way. I know. That's how they knew Corey's Cookies was there.

[Corey]

When you're going to name your bakery, it's good to do a search and see how many of their one a big one. Life's a batch. I see. There's probably 5 million lifes a batch.

[Heather]

It's a pun, a play on words. Hilarious. It's right there with cookies it's memorable. But now it's also competitive. It's competitive. Right. So it's again that ebb and flow, the give and take in the world of marketing and business. Nothing is 100% I always say. I said it with the websites. You'll not find one that does everything.

[Corey]

The way you want it.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Same with the name. What's the most different I can be without being too different? I can't be sound. Right. Right. So that everything can be really a basic be. And call yourself sugar cookie marketing. In which case we're a keyword as well as a brand. But it is rough doing it that way as well because now it's not cute. I know. Yeah. Right. You're not relevant on socials. You're losing returning.

[Corey]

This is a big one. When I go to refer someone to somebody else. So I'm booked. Booked, busy, bless whatever you want to say it. And I refer a client when I go to their social media and they haven't posted in seven months.

[Heather]

Closed.

[Corey]

I can't tell if you're there. Maybe you've taken a break from social media. Maybe you're not baking anymore.

[Heather]

Well, here's an instance where you and I actually had to face this every Vendee blendy. I know you guys are asking where also Ruthann has found another way to make noise. Please forgive the noise in the background. That is not Corey tapping.

[Corey]

Not today, please.

[Heather]

That is a man hammering. They sound the same. They are different today. Okay. The Vendi Blendy. We always let first right of refusal go to the past Vendys. My little way of saying thank you so much for sticking around. When we do this, we go through the list because Corey said, I just feel like this list has a lot of stores closed this time. The from last year's list to this year's. Because I don't want to send it. I don't. I guess I could email them all, but we were going through to see what if everyone signed up that we thought was still open. What would look like. Right. Because then we'll know how we have to acquire more shops.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

When I'm clicking there. Isaac Corey. Not posted since 2022. Not posted to since 2024. Last post about the Vendee blendy last year.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And that indicates to me that likely the shop is closed now. If they're like, well, no, I just don't post a lot. What are you representing to your own clientele? They're not coming back because they don't want to waste their time trying to figure out if you're open for them to find out. Oh, you are open. That gives me the doubt that I'll see the product. You know that social proof.

[Corey]

Absolutely. The social proof is Gone. And me and Heather, we went out of town this past weekend and we were looking up little restaurants to eat at. I already know restaurants aren't good about.

[Heather]

Posting on social media, but, like, when.

[Corey]

You go there and it's like, they haven't posted since 2021. Like, I don't know if we're making the drive for no reason at all.

[Heather]

It was funny. I. I'm in some local community group I shouldn't be in, and the guy had posted that he'd been staying at this hotel for 17 years as his kid's gone through this local college.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And the hotel's a little inn, right? Those cute little point ones.

[Guest/Caller]

Yes.

[Heather]

And he had missed the refund window, and they wouldn't give him a refund. Okay, buddy, listen. The rules are the rules. However, he goes to this group and says, can I resell them? I'm very disappointed that the inn that I've been giving money to for 17 years won't refund me. So I click. He tags the inn.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So I clicked to him last post, 2022. I said, they don't care. Yeah, they don't care what you think.

[Corey]

But I want to say, if you were like, I'm now interested in going to the inn, when you see something not posted for years ago, you'd be like, oh, I think they've moved on to bigger and better.

[Heather]

Or they don't care about customer service.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Because you can't leave them at.

[Corey]

Right.

[Heather]

They don't care.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

It just leaves that piece of doubt. And your clients or your past clients are, like, probably closed.

[Corey]

So if you're like, if you're just saying, well, no, I don't do that. We can't look into the scope of ourselves. You're obviously not posting to social media because it's not a big part of your buying experience. But we have to step outside of ourselves because we are not our ideal clients. That's why we're baking the cookies. Because one day we said that was way too expensive. I think I could do it on my own. You're going to step out and you're going to say, am I losing clients potentially? Because my last post was eight months ago.

[Heather]

I would tell you this. Another thing that is a big old donut comeback. Here is the bio saying, now taking orders for June 2025, and we're in September.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

The pin post saying, hey, I just want to make an announcement for my availability. But it's supposed to three years ago.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Makes me think maybe this company isn't still operating. I'll find a new option.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Guest/Caller]

Right.

[Heather]

Probably losing clients. If you're not selling relevant, if you're not posting, if you're not staying on top of that stuff, it's hard to stay on top of it. But like we said, there's a balance.

[Corey]

There's the balance.

[Heather]

There's a balance. Okay. If you're, if you're constantly rebranding, it will cause audience confusion and you will lose returning clients. We had a client ourselves who went through a major rebrand against my better wishes, against how I would have handled it at all. They just completely changed name, completely changed the colors, made no announcement. Everything just switched over overnight.

[Corey]

And it wasn't like the names were similar.

[Heather]

They were night and day, night and day. So we talk about it. Corey did her rebrand. She guarantee lost returning. I. I wouldn't try to. We tried to soft landing the rebrand by saying, formerly the crumbed cookies.

[Corey]

My rebrand started nine months prior.

[Heather]

Yeah. And then it's still residual because there's still some aspects that we actually still leave it. Although I think you'd be safe now. I think you like the keyword because cookies. But that is going to lose past clients. So I had somebody and they were like, I want to rebrand it. Somebody in the cookie college. He said, how should I go about this? And I said, changing the name of your page is a lot less impactful than changing the URL of your page. And there's a strategy behind how to.

[Corey]

Go through both of those.

[Heather]

However, guaranteed you will lose if you get the new URL, the new domain name for your website. That old domain name, if it's not redirecting, it'll still fall out of search.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So people will search the old domain, not find you wonder whatever happened.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Oftentimes what I see bakers most doing is changing the profile picture. Your logo is branding. That is where someone sees that and they say, I know who that is.

[Heather]

You know, in your local community group, I changed the COVID photos. We talked about it. Actually sent a text and I was like, hey, I think this would be funny. However, it's gonna mix up the branding.

[Corey]

Well, you've changed sugar cookie marketing, the cookie haul. You've changed all those brands and we can't find it.

[Heather]

Right.

[Corey]

Because sometimes you're so accustomed to something's col that when it changed, what was that?

[Heather]

Okay. For the midsummer membership sale, I changed everything to green in all the three groups. And Amy moderator was like, it's going to be impossible for me to figure out which group. Because we used color as an indicator of branding.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

So I know a lot of bakers and don't. If you do this, totally fine. Will switch out their. Their profile photo, their business page profile photo with whatever cookie they're baking.

[Heather]

Right. Yes. I see that a lot.

[Corey]

The problem is if someone's like, I've only remembered them for their logo colors. And when I do the at symbol, it usually pops up when I type.

[Heather]

The letter S. I am the. I am that person.

[Corey]

You do lose that.

[Heather]

Yeah.

[Corey]

If you are always your face is your brand totally fine.

[Heather]

Yes.

[Corey]

But when you change it and Heather says to some people in the sugar cookie marketing group, you change your profile picture. You've always been a dog. Now I don't know who you are.

[Heather]

Because really, if you think about a relationship with the group members, your tiny name in a circle. Yeah. One of the ladies has a golden retriever. And the golden retriever did pass away. And she said, don't worry about it. To honor him, I'm keeping the golden retriever. And I said, good. Otherwise I wouldn't know who you are.

[Corey]

Because that's who you are. But you're thinking like, no, people love to. You're the one who's going and staring at your stuff on your page.

[Heather]

No one will love your business as much as you do.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Thousands of times.

[Heather]

Nobody will track your business as much as you do.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

So when you're changing your profile photo that maybe that's the only tie someone has to your business. And you make it from your logo to your face. You could potentially be losing people because they can't remember.

[Heather]

Same with the name. And I know. Well, I said it was cakes only llc. And now I'm doing cookies. I understand. But the risk there, the guaranteed risk is that you'll lose people. It's just par for the course. The risk tolerance.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

If I. If none of my repeat book of business came out. Okay. Okay. Well, I want repeat book of business. Then how would you bridge that rebranding gap? How would you send out the email? Hey, this is what's happening. Here's what's going to go. Here's what the old logo looks like. Here's what the new. I'm working to where I'm making posts about. I'm making sure my audience. My email signature says mixing bowl cookie company, formerly the crumb cookies for the next one year. How can I bridge that gap so I can still build that trust and transfer to that new business?

[Corey]

You will lose people regardless of how good you do your rebrand. I promise you. I promise.

[Heather]

Because you just can't remember. You just can't remember another one. If you're not staying top of mind with your current book of business, you will be losing clients. Now this is back to the touch points.

[Guest/Caller]

Yes.

[Heather]

And this is all that extra marketing accoutrement that we like to say I don't have time for.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Newsletters.

[Corey]

Newsletters. So what Heather's saying, like the touch points, a lot of our clients order once a year for their child's birthday. That's probably my number one. I'm a birthday baker girl right now. So if I don't somehow get in front of that client in the next 364 days, I could potentially lose them because I've not stayed top of mind to them.

[Heather]

Right. So you can see companies implement a lot of ways to stay top of mind. Let's take Paula's Choice for example. It is constantly emailing, it's texting, it's posting, it's running ads.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

It is being a lot. It's in Sephora. It's easy to access. Okay, whatever. All these things. Right. That said, it's staying top of mind. I can tell you Paula's Choice stuff. I've seen it. It's been around forever.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

It went through a rebrand, but it's only a packaging rebrand. They didn't even change the name.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And then it's top of mind. Almost too top of mind. There's such a thing. At least for me.

[Corey]

Some real estate agents are really good about this. A lot of times the home buying process isn't a two day thing. It's a. We're thinking about it. Okay. The numbers didn't work out. We're going to save for the next two years and hopefully in three years we rent a buy.

[Heather]

We're going to refer some money.

[Corey]

Yeah. So what real estate agents do, they do things like pop buys.

[Heather]

They do Things like starting YouTube channels that review the local area. I am a sucker for that. I would love for somebody to tell me. I had. I follow this real estate agent on TikTok who told who. All he does is tell you what businesses are opening. Yeah, I'm nosy so I like to do that. But maybe when I buy that house, I'll remember his name. Don't ask me what it is, I can't remember. But that top of mind. So you have already acquired the business.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

How would you as the end user want to be brought back into that business and why as are you the business owner. Not doing.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And a lot of it is time.

[Corey]

Some of our clients are bigger clients who have bigger ticketed items. Like say their funnel is very long. Their funnel's long and someone spent a hundred thousand dollars with them.

[Heather]

Much more thought in instead of the $10 product. Yeah.

[Corey]

What we suggest to em just. And we don't try to put our hands in it. Cause we hate events. But we say having an event for past clients is a fantastic way. So you'll see actually people send tickets like here's some game tickets. I know you said you like this to past clients to keep them top of mind.

[Heather]

Ashley's works for that app called Ynab. You need a budget. Really like it. If you're trying to get on top of your finances. Highly recommend they have a customer delight officer, the CDO. The CDO's sole job is to monitor forums and Facebook groups and Reddit posts to find where they can delight a customer. That is a huge advocate for Ynab because Ynab knows they'll get more signups from somebody recommending them than they will do a cold audience. Chewy's. Chewy's is great.

[Corey]

Chewy's there when your pet passes away, you are no longer in their funnel. Technically, if we think about it from a marketing standpoint, if your pet passes, you're no longer going to be buying from Chewy's. Chewy says you know what the odds are that someone who's a pet lover doesn't ever get another pet again is low.

[Heather]

Right.

[Corey]

So what they'll do is send you flowers when you have to go and cancel your pet food subscription.

[Heather]

And I think they let you keep. They'll refund you an order and let you keep it and donate it to Pet Need. Phenomenal. Way expensive. Phenomenal. Now can't. You're like, well that's too much for me. And I understand just. Just looking at the cost of flowers is ridiculous. That's delightful though. What's the hybrid approach here?

[Guest/Caller]

Okay.

[Corey]

My hybrid approach. And what I've been able to do is while gifts are nice.

[Heather]

Yes.

[Corey]

I'm always baking something.

[Heather]

Yes.

[Corey]

A great client that I've had. If I'm baking a few extra cookies for an order, I'll bake them for that client that is always recommending me. Hey. So and so I just thought about you today. I know your kids are going back to school. I just made these for you if you want to come pick it em up.

[Heather]

Right. So that client referring Corey and still buying from you is producing so much more income than if she wasn't there. That's where you're going to water. That's where you're going to focus that. So like Corey said, the cost of her baking is just ingredients. In time, she was already doing most of it. She's just created extra for this client. The clients still placed orders. It's not like the clients like, well, I got free stuff so I don't need anything anymore. It's still a great lead source, income source.

[Corey]

We're all making samples for these holidays. What a great place for a sample to go.

[Heather]

Rather that than the proverbial freezer drawer, never to be seen or the cookie.

[Corey]

Graveyard where they dry out. You could use that, that time and effort into marketing. And it cuts down now on the time and effort because now it's a marketing tool.

[Heather]

Corey will never keep a product photo cookie. She will get that in the hands.

[Corey]

Go to somebody if you're not.

[Heather]

If you're going to involve your business in drama, you're losing returning clients. Obviously a lot of stuff in the news lately and a lot of businesses have decided to put that out there.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

I'm of and query and I have always said, do not involve your business in politics and drama.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

The reason being I don't need to know what my all change place voted for.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

However, you have that right to do it on your personal page and you bridge that gap. You know, and I've seen a lot of that crossover. Why I've looked at the personal pages, how they're working, whatever it is. If you're going to involve your business in drama, you're going to lose clients. And you say, well, I'm standing up for what's right. Like we said every point on here, there's a hybrid approach. You can, you can't, you can kind of whatever that is, just understand the repercussions of that action.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

A lot of we've seen in the past week is a lot of personal profiles which are linked to business accounts. Because maybe you share your work from your page to your personal profile. People are making those connections.

[Heather]

Yeah. Here's the thing. At the end of the day, you believe in what you believe in because of your life experiences, which are very different than my life experiences. However, now we believe in different things, but that's fine. Okay. However, the keyboard. Keyboard. The keyboard warriors.

[Corey]

Keyboard warriors.

[Heather]

The keyboard warriors. And I said this on the past podcast, if you want to make a difference, turn off the computer, walk outside, grab a clipboard and Advocate.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

However, if you want to involve your business page in that, you will see very startling opinions. And I said to Corey, I think the Internet has given everyone a microphone and said, yell as loud as possible.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And I think that people love to be outraged. I find myself, if there is a car accident, this neck will be doing a 360. And I'll also complain about people looking at car accidents.

[Corey]

Also, our online footprints since. Since Internet now goes back so long is wide and vast.

[Heather]

Well, they say the Internet never forgets.

[Corey]

I want to say. So what I've seen people do just specifically in this past week is someone will make a comment politically charged. Someone will take the time and go back through every comment they made in that specific group and find where they have recommended themselves in a comment section of some random post years ago.

[Heather]

Enough.

[Corey]

Put two and two together.

[Heather]

So what I'm going to tell you, and we're going to leave it at this is if you involve your baking business page, if you involve your bakery in drama, don't be surprised when drama shows up at the front door. Yeah.

[Corey]

And drama can be anything. I've seen people, I've seen bakers on TikTok Dog, literally dog on a client. And I'm like, wow, I really hope.

[Heather]

That is also drama. I know everyone thinks like politics. No, it's a lot of different kinds of drama.

[Corey]

I see people with their. With their full business name account.

[Heather]

My, my one that always, like, kind of shocks me is the local bakery groups, local bakery support groups being like, look at this idiot. I'm like, I saw that post over there and I know anybody can turn around and say, this is what you're telling me.

[Corey]

I want to say like, you're like, well, my local bakery, you guys have a lot of trust. They're technically, at the end of the day, your competition.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And talk about a way to get new business. So, yeah, if you don't be surprised when drama shows up at your door if you involve yourself in drama. Well, I saw this baker. Do they made a decision?

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Are you. Do you have the same exact. Have you done the risk analysis of that same decision? And I don't think a lot of people have, and I think a lot of people have seen some repercussions here. Your choice.

[Corey]

I want to say when it comes to that kind of thing, you might not feel that, like, where you have no returning clients for a full year.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Corey]

But in a full year, you might not remember back when you interjected yourself in the drama.

[Heather]

We'll always say Marketing is always delayed.

[Corey]

It's always delayed. And that's what I think people don't realize.

[Heather]

We'll have a client roll off or.

[Corey]

Something and then be like, they're still.

[Heather]

Seeing the results of our labor. And I said, it's delayed. Right. They should. They showed up at a time. Corey's son went to the school that we like to strategize how you could possibly save it. My thing I call if you ever watched Interstellar, is the event horizon. So if you ever get close to a black hole, eventually light gets sucked in and you can't escape it. And that was the whole thing of Interstellar. Right. So the event. Have you. So we say about businesses, have they reached their event for Horizon where the marketing is so bad, the company's lost so much money that there's no way they can even save themselves at this point?

[Corey]

Unfortunately, event horizons, when you involve yourself, are always delayed because marketing isn't. It's not a light switch.

[Heather]

The solution was a year before this.

[Corey]

Yeah, if marketing was a light switch, that would be awesome.

[Heather]

Because we don't mess it on.

[Corey]

Yeah, for sure. We flick it on. Flick it off, flick it on.

[Heather]

If marketing was a light switch, we wouldn't have to do this podcast because you'd just be like, I have returning clients now. Yes. You pick a post, you make a million dollars.

[Corey]

The thing is, what you do today, whether you plant seeds of market marketing, whether you involve yourself in drama, you will not see it for months to come.

[Heather]

I have found myself unfollowing some local business because. Because I was like, I just, oh, I. I want to know what Change, not drama.

[Corey]

Yeah, but you might not need. You might have just gotten your oil change. You don't need it for another six, seven months.

[Heather]

But now they can't get to me because the way they stood top of mind, I was like, yeah, you know, not. I'm a little overwhelmed. Yeah, I'm backing out. Okay, well, you say, well, my conviction. Make that decision. Make that decision.

[Corey]

Just know that in a year from now, when you come to the sugar cookie marketing group and you said, whatever, it's. It's over saturated, that I want you to wind it back. Oh, you did make a post in a community group and stood on ten toes down on something. And that might be why I always.

[Heather]

Tell people, you want to involve yourself in drama. Imagine 50% of your book of business leaves. Is that okay? Then involve yourself in drama with me.

[Corey]

And Heather's marketing clients. We will see their past history of them as people.

[Heather]

Well, you best believe before somebody onboards, we scroll.

[Corey]

Yeah. Because unfortunately, the best marketing can't handle a loose cannon.

[Heather]

Corey. And I say we can't out market the owner if the owner is a loose cannon. There's no amount of marketing in the world. It'll be a great effort, but then it all comes crashing down with that single poster, that one stance, or that thing they did or that thing they said.

[Corey]

And I can't at the end of the day have the business. Why did I get the bad review and be like, remember when you went off on somebody in a little community group? Well, that's why, because they hired us for marketing.

[Heather]

So I'd also say, well, I saw another baker do it. I saw this other company do it. Maybe they're influencers, in which case they have a different business model than you. I am talking to the baker who needs someone to place a custom cookie order consistently over a long period of time.

[Corey]

It has been more condoned to have more drama content because the algorithm trends I hate.

[Heather]

You know, I was reading an article and they said the algorithm really, it waters what's already growing. We already talked about that's what the engagement baiting collabs are for. So when you have drama, it attracts more people. Well, attracting more people attracts more people. We talk about that constantly. Then it looks like success. But I would say give it some time. Yeah, let's see how it plays out.

[Corey]

I want you to go to the drama person's account. Do they have TikTok shops? Shop linked?

[Heather]

Do they have affiliates?

[Corey]

Do they have. Are they in the creator rewards program? Is that video that you're watching over a minute long? I promise you they're getting paid for it.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

In which case their drama is the strategy. Now for you who tries it. Well, I want to. I want to. I want to stand up for what I believe in, but I also really need these orders. Your strategy is going to be a lot different than that. And I would say your strategy, if you want to make a difference, is to leave the computer and go outside and do something. Make a difference.

[Corey]

Yeah, for sure.

[Heather]

Okay. Okay. And. Or take the money, earn the money and donate it to your cause.

[Guest/Caller]

There you go.

[Heather]

Okay, okay. Put down your boxing gloves, you people out there. At no point, if you listen to the four and a half years of these podcasts, have we not said the exact same thing. And the fact that we're able to speak on this for four and a half years should kind of tell you there's something that they know, not involving politics. Drama into business is a solid.

[Corey]

Heather knows. I wish I could name drop clients and create some drama on our socials and be like, right now in sugar cookie marketing, bakers are the ones who are following us. Clients aren't following. It's other bakers following us. I would love to be like, oh.

[Heather]

My goodness, I had to tell you.

[Corey]

About this client that came by yesterday because that would get me so many more views.

[Heather]

But we say, is that the content bucket that's going to create the value that we want? No, it's going to create a lot of engagement.

[Corey]

A lot of engagement.

[Heather]

But is it the value one even sometimes going to punch the air because you're like, can't even post about that. But think of how good it would be if we could think of all the likes. Yeah. I even tell Amy, like, you gotta delete the post. It would perform really well. And as a marketer, I hate that we're deleting that thread. But as the consensus of the value that everyone has voted on, we need to delete the thread. Yeah, that's the door guy, not Corey, last guy. When you're selling to two target audience, you're losing returning clients. Now I see this and I get why people do it. I get it. Yeah, I get it. I want to be a. I want to bake custom cookies for people. I also want to sell to bakers.

[Corey]

Yes, why not?

[Heather]

I have to bake the cookie. Why wouldn't I make reels content?

[Corey]

Because you're at the end of the day. I've already bought this really cool spatula that carves off the icing off of my, my other spatula. And I like that. And I want to share that to people. We have muddled our audience.

[Heather]

Cory and I always say this. I. How, okay, that little purple thing that floats on TikTok, the affiliate thing. And there's this button, it says like, click here if you sign up clicks. Okay. If anyone clicks through your link, you get money to Tic tac Shop. All these bakery baking pages that you've invited me to follow are suddenly posting this. This is about five months ago. Are suddenly posting this TikTok affiliate link. And I'm like, like what? I. I thought you're selling cookies. Why would you muddle your own message to get a few bucks in TikTok shop? Would you rather the $68 of the custom dozen or the $2 for crap from TikTok shop?

[Corey]

But I think you're, you're not seeing the force through the trees. You're like, well, if they just click.

[Heather]

It, we both get $2. But that's not where your money maker.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

If you shake that money maker. Does a TikTok shop shake or does your customs as an end user?

[Corey]

If I know I want to order cookies and I go to your social media profile and you have gotten a cricut and you're really loving your cricut.

[Heather]

And you're using that cricut like the cutting. Yeah.

[Corey]

And you're making like shirts and stuff. If I'm an end user who hasn't bought for you for one year, you might know that you still make cookies, but you just really are loving this new shirt venture of yours.

[Heather]

Right.

[Corey]

I'm gonna see that as the end user who hasn't used you for one year and say they're no longer baking, they're into shirt.

[Heather]

How else would I interpret that?

[Corey]

But you're like, but they could want shirts too.

[Heather]

They could muddled message. There is a way to do that. And Cory and I talk about it all the time. At the end of the day, it's a hybrid approach.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

You know, and why I say a hybrid is it'd be perfect if you had an electric car that went forever. But then what if there's no charging thing? So you need a gas car. So then you create a hybrid. That's why the hybrid is great. It's the kind of okayest of both worlds in this aspect. It's the kind of. I see bakers are like, well, what is it? I have an affiliate with Kaleidocuts. Does she have an affiliate?

[Corey]

I don't know.

[Heather]

Okay, pretend sorry Kaleida Cuts if you don't.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Hopefully you get some business.

[Corey]

She does have her sports program, which.

[Heather]

So here's my affiliate Link. Use code HEATHER10 at checkout for 10. 10% off.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

That's only to bakers if I'm talking about cutter shop. So. But I'm turning around and saying, okay, so the hybrid approach make two different pages. But now, Heather, I have to manage you. Yeah, hybrid approach.

[Corey]

But you're not going to lose out on one for the. The betterment of the other.

[Heather]

Corey and I always, you know, Corey's like, wow, I wish I could post affiliate links. And I was like, no, I don't want to post affiliate links. Cause I'd rather them sign up for the cookie college. Yeah, I would rather you guys. You know, of course, affiliate links are always the funny one because it costs them nothing extra. But I say the explanation that it has to be explained that it's an affiliate link. I'd rather pitch em on the cookie college.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Also affiliate links. Take the bias.

[Heather]

I can't allow. We don't allow affiliate link in comments. Although. Yes, with that, the Square with the shutting down of Cast iron, people are migrating, I swear. Well, Square has that great affiliate program where we both win if you sign up through my link.

[Corey]

Yeah. You get a month. I get a month.

[Heather]

However, did I recommend it to you because we both win or did I recommend it to you because it's the best product and it's muddled? Well, Heather, I use it because it's the best product. But I listen to Ramit Sadie. I listen to him on Tuesdays. He does a little interview on Tuesdays. I like to listen to it. And he was like talking about a Lisa bit. I don't never even heard a mattress or something. And he is like, but I even bought it with my own money. Oh, right, but now you're getting paid by them. So did you buy it? Because he's like, it's cured my whole life and filed my taxes early. And I'm like, but they're paying you right now.

[Corey]

It is, it is muddled.

[Heather]

Although he probably loves the bed and I could use a new mattress myself. Yeah. It gives you that pause. So same with your audience. What are you trying to send?

[Corey]

What do you want them?

[Heather]

Do you want to give you a couple of dollars from Amazon or do you want them to give you the $68? It doesn't. Or the $50? It doesn't.

[Corey]

Yeah, it's really coming down. And knowing who your customer is and if you're willing to say, my customer is now other bakers, you've answered a question. You are going to lose sales from customers.

[Heather]

A hybrid approach, apparently you are willing to do. However, when you say where are, where have all my customers gone?

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

I look at your Amazon sales.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Are they taking up? Well, that's what you, that's what you exchange again, each one of these is do a risk analysis, do a time cost analysis, Do a cost analysis. The returning client is always the best client because it's the cheapest client. Yeah, well, Heather, I don't, I don't want my returning clients. Don't listen to any of this. Do exactly the opposite of what we said. Sure. And you'll be able to go get folks.

[Corey]

And that's a strategy in and of itself. It just, if you sit back, back and you can't say, I have a lot of returning clients, this might be.

[Heather]

The reason I have A I don't have a lot of returning clients and I wish I did.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

I was thinking about this. We used to have a beekeeping client. Wild experience.

[Guest/Caller]

Wild.

[Heather]

I wore a lot of beekeeping suits. I was right up there with the bees.

[Corey]

I hated the bees in my ear.

[Heather]

It was wild.

[Corey]

I honestly, Heather got really in there into the little hives.

[Heather]

I said, if the beekeeping suit protects me, who am I to say?

[Guest/Caller]

Now it's the.

[Corey]

Around my ears.

[Heather]

They get mad. If you're wondering why beekeeping suit. Suit suits are white. It's cuz bees can see black and get mad at.

[Corey]

They're mad at black. He had my camera equipment, little mic that she put on Keeper, dude.

[Heather]

They were tapping it because it was black and they were mad and the audio was like.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

He says when you have a hive and the queen is mean, the queen will have mean babies and you'll have an aggressive hive.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

To have a nice hive, you must kill the queen and implant a new queen, a nice queen. Then in I think it was like two weeks, the babies of the new queen would have taken over. The babies of the old queen have died just in their natural life cycle and now you'd have new. So if you have tire kicking clients because you always underprice for a long time, you're gonna kill off the coin. It's gonna, you're gonna see that transition. You don't want these old clients.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

But if you have a really solid book of old client business and you're not seeing it, this is the podcast for you.

[Corey]

What's awesome. And I can tell sometimes when I'm looking at other bakers, social medias, they have a big book of returning clients because they'll post a class and it.

[Heather]

Will be sold out.

[Corey]

Yep, they'll post a pop up. It's already sold out.

[Heather]

I love. Okay, here's a. Here's a problem. Because Corey and I have a big book of returning class business. We don't have to market as hard for new class business. You best believe I'll start marketing when that class isn't sold out. However, if I could just fill every future class with past class people so.

[Corey]

You'Ll see on our classes page because that we separated them out because we believe in what we say, we separate them out. You're like, you're never posting the link to your classes. The classes are sold out. We don't have to market half as hard as we used to.

[Heather]

And we don't have to. That means we save time costs. We don't have to run a Facebook ad, so we save ad costs. We don't have to send out a newsletter, so we save the subscription costs.

[Corey]

But if we want to stay top of mind, we do have to coin.

[Heather]

I say shoot. We don't listen to our own advice for that. And I'm allowed to be lazy. However, I will pay that price one day.

[Corey]

I want to say the difference is, you know, you will pay that price.

[Heather]

So what we see, a couple months ago, some lady was like, you haven't sold in a while, but it doesn't matter. Everyone took my business. Really? No, you haven't sold in a while. So people were able to take your business. Yeah, yeah. So it's not the market saturation as much as these other factors. Again, the reason why Corn and I just want to lambast market saturation is because it's the cop out. While it is a component, it is not the only factor. And a lot of things, if you address a lot of these small factors, you won't even think about competition when.

[Corey]

You see a new baker pop up, grow as we all once were. But you're angry at them for doing what you did five years ago and coming into an industry that is nice for one, a great place for stay at home moms.

[Heather]

Because you're, this is a perfect fit.

[Corey]

This is a great fit. It and you were once that person and you wanted to be welcomed with open arms. But when you look at the new person who pops up in your local group and they get a fanfare and you have a hard heart about you, you are worried about your clients because there's something in your marketing strategy and your returning business that you have not paid attention to.

[Heather]

And now you have to.

[Corey]

And now you have to because you're worried they're going to take people from you.

[Heather]

That's the magic of it. We're all better businesses for having to compete with each other.

[Corey]

I want to say thank goodness Corey.

[Heather]

And I said if our competition really wanted to get one over on us, they'd stop selling and then we'd stop selling because we'd never have to try. And then we'd get lazy and then we wouldn't dry and people would naturally leave.

[Corey]

Thank goodness an industry like this allows people to come into it because if it was the people from 12, 15 years ago means that because they were first to the market that they got all the business, we wouldn't be here.

[Heather]

I was listening to her. Meet Sadie today. You know, he's got this couple on here and they're always in debt. And he's trying to strategize how. But they were employed by the same company. And he said, whoa. He said to have any amount of debt and share the same employer and they had a massive income between the two of them. Take home pay per month, 20 grand. But he was like, but you don't have a. He's like, every business expands and contracts it always. And I wish I have a graph of it. It's in one of these college textbooks. He said every business will grow and then comes down. And that's what it has to do to allow new people into the market with a sharper product, a better customer service. And thus the old businesses are like, oh shoot, I gotta try harder. I gotta shut down. Yeah.

[Corey]

There's this beautiful guy on TikTok and you've seen him, the guy with the. The rise and fall of Subway the wild.

[Heather]

I don't know what his name is.

[Corey]

I don't know his name is either.

[Heather]

But my whole family's talking about him because he'll only give you a history lesson in the parking lot of the business he's talking about. So he was at Topgolf. He was at Subway. Chipotle. He just did Chipotle quiz now.

[Corey]

Which is interesting.

[Heather]

I'm not sure if he's. If he's reading something, but it's really easy to watch him.

[Corey]

It's a 10 minute long video. But it's so interesting. And every single business has its rise.

[Heather]

Panera. I watched his Panera one.

[Corey]

Pizza Hut. I saw that one. I actually just watch everything. If he ends up on the feet.

[Heather]

I'm gonna watch 10 minutes. I'm gonna let it play. Right.

[Corey]

But every business has a rise and fall. In that fall is where another business can come in. Does that mean this business goes down? No, they have to come up with a new product.

[Heather]

I've seen this new thing. I think McDonald's kind of heard of it. And I have no idea where they partner with celebrities to come up with these meals.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah, I've seen.

[Heather]

So then you have a walla partnering with this company to do this print. And then you have this lip gloss partnering with this company. Smell.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

It's very interesting. How to stay relevant in ever market saturation.

[Corey]

Right?

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And that's why competition is a healthy thing.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

That's why McDonald's. A chick fil a and a Chipotle, those are all next to each other in where I live.

[Heather]

They're also here next to each other.

[Corey]

And they can exist together. And One's not like too much saturation. No. They're like, what can we add to the morning menu?

[Heather]

What can we add? What bonus? What app, what rewards program can we add that makes people choose me over the them? What influencer can we partner with to talk about it? Absolutely. When Corey wanted to leave you guys with this consistently marketing to past clients is the solution to the where are my class? Past clients problem class clients. What is wrong with my words today?

[Corey]

What does consistency look like to past clients? Being on your own social medias, probably they followed you at one point in time. So creating engaging content engagement allows them.

[Heather]

To say, did you say drama in drama Content.

[Corey]

Asking them, do you like candy corn? That's a great way to end up with a.

[Heather]

That is real safe.

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Heather]

Drama. I think sometimes we think drama. Negative context drama. Hey, guys, I rescued a cat.

[Guest/Caller]

Drama.

[Heather]

Love it. Yes. Or hey, guys, I'm taking on this initiative. Or hey, guys, I saw this guy. Okay, let's. They call it Hope Core. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Corey]

No.

[Heather]

It's on Tick Tock and it's this genre of, like, positive stories of people, a lot of them. And I. I'm a sucker for Hope Core. I will always watch somebody returning from a military deployment and surprising a child at school.

[Corey]

My husband doesn't cry a dog. Seeing a military person for the first time in a month, he would cry every time blubbering that.

[Heather]

How could you not be so Hope Court. That is another type of drama. Yes. And because, you know, it doesn't have to be. It's dramatically positive. It's dramatically emotion invoking pumpkin spice lattes.

[Corey]

Do people like them? PSL season. That's positive drama. That's a great way. If you have a person who buys from you once a year, you're gonna fall out of their feeds if you're.

[Heather]

Like, here's what I made.

[Corey]

Here's what I made. Here's what I made. But if we can say, here's what I made. And also here's a video of me decorating a pumpkin cookie on Friday at 11 for the Baker's bon Baker social collab, that adds a way to get back. So there's a very good consistency there. It can't just be like, I posted every day for a year what I made, and no, they didn't come back again.

[Heather]

Strategy, strategy.

[Corey]

Some consistent stride. Your newsletter. I want to say the worst thing about a newsletter.

[Heather]

Starting and stopping. What if we just go through these and do the opposite? Let's do it. Let's do it. The first one. Stay consistently open. You're going to get return, you're going.

[Corey]

To get more returns.

[Heather]

Hate it, hate it. If you want to take a break also I, I'm not married so I still have to work all the time.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So channel your inner Heather.

[Corey]

My biggest thing, I'd much rather you take a consistent one month summer break than taking a burnout break.

[Heather]

Yes, I agree.

[Corey]

That's still consistent.

[Heather]

Somebody asked a question, they said how do you handle the busy season that we're coming?

[Corey]

I saw that quite an interesting.

[Heather]

It was very interesting topic because someone you know, it was a mix of answers. Someone said I am am throttling it down so I don't burn out in January. Someone said I this is my bumper crop time. I take on as many orders as possible. I'm also fully employed outside of this.

[Corey]

Someone said I don't do anything because I host every event at my house for my family.

[Heather]

So I saw that one too. And so the different strategies there are if you are easily burnt out or if your life circumstances lend towards burnout because you host all your family, have to get all whatever these things are or you're sitting then you're going to approach this differently. So throttle it back so we can stay open.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

So I want to say a consistent summer break beats out a random burnout month.

[Heather]

Obviously the best one is going to be no breaks at all. Not realistic for everybody. So find that hybrid option. Okay. The other one, stay consistent in your offerings. You can add new samples, testers, limited edition. But your core offering should be small, limited and easy to digest. Sometimes times in the group people post their menu and I'm like that font is so little. I can already tell you it's too much.

[Corey]

They have, they offer everything. If it was a craze, if it was a cocoa bomb, a bronut, a cronut, a low nut, they're gonna offer it.

[Heather]

I'd like to try all those. But yes, keep it simple, stupid.

[Guest/Caller]

Yes, yes.

[Heather]

So if you're constantly changing your offerings, losing clients, the other thing, keep them consistent, keep that core consistency and then you can add little fads in there. Yeah.

[Corey]

A great thing is seasonal offerings, seasonal flavors.

[Heather]

We're very connected.

[Corey]

That's not a promise of this is going to be around all the time. That is going to customer.

[Heather]

The great example is there's always a three wick candle at Bath and Body Works but it's not always the smell of leaves.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Vanilla Bean can get it all year long.

[Heather]

I can't get the leaves. Leaves is the smell, guys. Go and try it out. It's great.

[Corey]

And I always say leaves has Heather in a chickle chuckled. She wants to buy how it's because it's 50 bajillion degrees in here. Heather had a leaves candle. It had not.

[Heather]

That's the smell of the candle.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

It had not been burnt. And we went to Bath and Body Works. Just stopping in because when you're in the mall, when in Rome, you go smell the candles.

[Heather]

It's almost a fetish for corner.

[Corey]

Heather said, I won another one. I said, have you burnt the first one? No.

[Heather]

Hoarding.

[Corey]

But because it's seasonal. She is able. They're almost.

[Heather]

But it's quite different than walking in Bath and Body Works and seeing three wicks are no longer forsaken.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Okay, so we got that one. Be easily findable. Have that website, have that social media. Have that Instagram, have that TikTok post it. Be findable. There is a hashtag strategy. There's a caption strategy. There's. We talk about SEO sometimes on this podcast. Go listen to that.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

There's SEO course in the cookie college. Go listen to that. Be findable.

[Corey]

Yeah. The easy things to be findable on are the ones you have to do. You might not be at the point where you want to build a full website. Instead, make sure your Google business profiles up.

[Heather]

They're good, free. If you can search, you can opt.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Heather]

This one. If you're not relevant on socials, be consistent on social media. Again, like Corey said, the kind of key to this is just consistency. My consistency and your consistency are different.

[Corey]

Corey.

[Heather]

I have. Corey and I are two people running the sugar cookie marketing page. Sometimes there'll be four or five posts a day. Sometimes it'll be a couple days.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

However, we are able to be more consistent. We have double the workforce than your consistency. Like we say. I always say find your base. Two to three posts a week.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

You're gonna see. If you go to mixing mold, regardless of the time of the year, you're.

[Heather]

Going to see a post in there for three posts a week and then that's that consistency. I would rather two to three posts a week than 50 posts a day and zero posts for the rest of the year.

[Corey]

Sometimes I see what bakers do. I'm like, wow, I think they just posted 10 times in the last two minutes and it'll be like photo dump. Haven't been around, forgot about it. So I'm dumping it now. You become a nuisance in My feed because I'm like, I can't scroll Maya.

[Heather]

Right. So we need to be consistent with our posting instead of the all and nothing. All or nothing. I've taken a break. I've gotten busy.

[Corey]

I'm back.

[Heather]

I'm gone. You know, it's that I'm dead. I'm rebranding. Rebranding may be necessary. How can you soft landing the rebrand?

[Corey]

What can we be consistent in your branding?

[Heather]

Do we need a rebrand? Yeah, sometimes. Maybe we just need a brand refresh. Maybe you're like, oh, I don't like the colors. So how can you can see goo. Oh, Walmart changed its little circle for. They just tighten the logo and they're doing that to stay relevant but without losing that recognition of that Walmart blue.

[Corey]

And the yellow apple did away with an apple and made it a pack hair.

[Heather]

Too crazy. Too crazy. But they've constantly changed the finish of the apple.

[Corey]

I would say stay away from always changing your profile photo. Let someone be able to have that brand recognition because that might be the only thing they remember when they do the at in a community group. That might be. Especially if you have a very common name, a very life Sabatch. Having your consistent imagery logo can really help narrow it down. So they're always tagging the right person.

[Heather]

I like that. And you can do branding with. With the style of staging that you do.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Oh, and so there's a lot of that you can set.

[Corey]

I always know it's a Corey photo.

[Heather]

Because Corey's pretty consistent in her staging. She uses bright colors. She has a lot of props around it. It's typically on a whiteboard. It's always in indirect sunlight. And you never use AI and that's your consistency. AI. Cool. It creates a little brand confusion there. Again, if you use it. Well, I use it because. Then use it because.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Stay top of mind. Send out that newsletter and send it out consistently. If consistently is quarterly. That's still consistent.

[Corey]

That's still consist. What we don't want is five emails, then no emails. Yeah, five emails and ome. It sounds like you closed down. You're no longer with us. You have shuttered the building.

[Heather]

Sometimes I'll get a newsletter and I'm.

[Corey]

Like, who are you? Yeah. Like that was years ago.

[Heather]

Unsubscribe. And then sometimes I'll get too many newsletters. Boss choice looking at you. But stay top of mind with that current book of business. A CRM program is a great way to. Right. I know you had a birthday this time last Year. Are you interested in placing an order again? If somebody did a lot to me, I would be more likely to reach out. The mechanic shop I go to have gone to every month and it's a little weird but on the 1st of each month it's a 10% off coupon for an oil change.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

I get an email every month but it's a reason to open it. And every time I said I would like 10% off for the oil change.

[Corey]

I see a lot of bakers and I love that this is a mindset you have are creating like referral programs for their customers.

[Heather]

Love it.

[Corey]

Here's the thing, you have got to stay on top of it to. So if you're, if you like started. No one really did anything with it the first three months. So you kind of thought. Didn't think about it. Month 6 Someone does and you're like, oh, I kind of did away with that program. That's going to leave a bad taste in the mouth of the person.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Don't involve yourself in drama. Just. That's the end of the sentence. That was a period. And then if you do involve yourself in drama, I can't save you from yourself. Right. There's only so much marketing strategy into that one. Once things take off, there's. You just gotta ride the wave. Don't muddle your messaging. If you sell cookies, sell cookies to the best of your ability. Don't sell cookies. And sometimes this link on Amazon and sometimes a TikTok shop affiliate link.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

What is a B? I go to people's profiles and sometimes I'll see like they'll be like, okay, sign up for this Disney program. Like the cruises are at an all time low. Sign up for a Disney cruise. I'm like, oh, okay. The next video will be like, are you a Disney cruise planner? Here's how to make the most of your clients. And I'm like, but you were just.

[Heather]

Selling because you're selling the program.

[Corey]

The one you're selling to the customers. Because you're still a Disney.

[Heather]

Multi level marketing. Not saying that Disney is. But. But that's a great example. Is because there's the downline. Yeah, I'm using the correct words, right?

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Multilevel marketing offensive.

[Corey]

No, it's not Mlmers. I just went to a Scentsy.

[Heather]

Okay. So you have the. Okay, the scentsy part is a great idea.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Heather]

And you say, okay, I'm hosting a Scentsy party. Would you like to buy any of my Scentsy products? And I was like, yeah, I would like to. Would you also like to sell Scentsy?

[Corey]

And then I was like, I don't.

[Heather]

Like that because look at how much money I made off all these idiots about these products.

[Corey]

And I'm like, but I'm the idiot. You made the money off of Scentsy.

[Heather]

People Disney trip plan. I'm not saying that. I'm saying if you come to your cookie business and you say, hey, it's always starts out with, hey, bakers, new product dropped. And I'm like, I thought you were selling customs, but you're. You're muddling that message. And there's a way to separate those out.

[Guest/Caller]

Out.

[Corey]

It would be hard.

[Heather]

Let's say if you are a Scentsy seller and a Scentsy host, you would have to have two versions of that.

[Corey]

You'd kind of want it because I don't want to be the client who bought from you. And then you're like, here's what newsletter.

[Heather]

List segmentation is for. So that you can say, hey, to my downline. Here's what we want to market to these people. Hey, to the people I'm marketing to. Here's all the great products you would want.

[Corey]

I see bakers do it this way. Their subscribers subscribe subscriptions on, I think Instagram and things like that. That puts the people corrals, those ones in a paid place where you can talk strategy. Like, here's how much made I made off this customer.

[Heather]

Instagram's letting you segment. Yeah. What if the customer signs up for it? Yeah. Then unfortunately, you've muddled your message again. So, yeah, if you can separate the two, either drop off. I'm not saying to drop off affiliate links completely, but make sure if you're selling customs, Customs is what you sell.

[Corey]

I would say if you wanted to, if you're teaching classes and you have a really good spatula from AM on that the person who wants to learn how to bake cookies could benefit better from that than your random customer who doesn't want to bake at all. That's why they're hiring you.

[Heather]

Great, Great point. In fact, people at our cookie class will be like, can you send us the links to the products you talked about? I'll send the affiliate links. But I'm like, hey, here's a lot of the products we talked about. If you want to buy them for yourself. However, Corey's not going to send that email to the people who just picked up a custom order.

[Corey]

They don't want to bake.

[Heather]

They don't want to bake. They don't want to be sold to. They already did the buying process. It would be a little bit like, I just bought from you. Why are you trying to get more money out of me? I know. And at the end of the day, consistently marketing to past clients is a solution to get past clients to become current clients and future clients.

[Corey]

So think about which way. How would you like to be treated? Often, me and Heather, when we go to seasons 52, get a little free dessert. I love that. Works on me. That is a great marketing tool for me.

[Heather]

A little free dessert.

[Corey]

It doesn't cost them more than $4.50. That's a great way. So what are ways that you can get back in front of these clients? You've already done the hard work when you first got them. So how can we make that hard work last long into the future?

[Heather]

I would ask what works on you? That is kind of think about it.

[Corey]

Sometimes rewards programs work on people.

[Heather]

A discount email works on me. A new product release works on me. And one that's real cute.

[Corey]

A lot of people do a vip, like, be my VIP group. You get first access, works on people.

[Heather]

You telling your past clients, I want you to be my future client. Sign up for class before it sells out. I'll give you. We do that. First access.

[Corey]

Yes, first access. Naming your good clients while you don't want to, especially if you've been around long. You don't want to, like, forget someone's name and then they're offended. But like saying, thanks, Trish so much. Even sending Trish one time someone referred.

[Heather]

I want to tell you what if a client. If a place I bought something from posted about me being an amazing client, I would cry.

[Corey]

I know I would love it.

[Heather]

I would feel honored if you're like.

[Corey]

Well, I have so many clients. I don't want to leave anyone out a small $5 gift card as a thank you to a referral.

[Heather]

That's my dad. You'll buy a packet of these $5 gift cards. Okay, so you got 100 bucks. So you get what?

[Corey]

I don't know. What's that?

[Guest/Caller]

Math? 20.

[Heather]

Yes, you can just. Is that right? 25. No.

[Corey]

I already said I'm no longer learning new math things.

[Heather]

20. So you could get delight. 20 people.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Okay, 100 bucks. Not. Not nothing. A hundred bucks. 20 people referring your name out something.

[Corey]

Then I'd be like, take my $5. Take my $5. That's a Steelio, huh?

[Heather]

If one client can bring in three clients, is it $5?

[Corey]

I know.

[Heather]

Okay, so you guys get how that Works. Moving on to the Cookie College. The Cookie College. We're working on that free fruits class. I should have it out by next week. It is cute. I talked about this with Corey over the weekend. The people who are in the Cookie College put their mind they are here to make a difference in their business and they will see that.

[Corey]

They are saying, if you are listening.

[Heather]

To this, and we've been doing this for four and a half years, this podcast, this is episode two, 29. And you never considered the Cookie College. I would bargain that you're still a hobbyist. Well, listen, listen. That whole program is just designed to help to sell, sell more online. It is nothing about really baking, although you can ask your questions there. But it is about how do you. Some lad just signed up and she's just binging it. And yeah, Jamie. And she's like, hey, now, what's my next horse? And I said, if you have a lot of ideas, let's map them out. The Mind Map course, which is on Miro and I like whimsical now. Let's map it out and. Because we need a plan, because we need to implement, because we're going to make more money, because this is going to work. I know it works because it's all I do.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

If you're listening to this podcast and you're like, well, I really like the free stuff. I love that you love the free stuff. I love you. Thank you so much. But you want to make this the best Q4. Sign up. What? Like I said, if you pay me 76 and you earn back 100, it was a great investment. If you pay me 76 and you earn back 3,000, it was. You'll be kicking yourself that you didn't do it.

[Guest/Caller]

Kicking.

[Heather]

You can always get that discount when the Vendee blendy comes. Start now in this little lot. We're just in the slight lull. Just a slight. The plane is starting the end of the Runway, right? We'll be taking off at sunny skies here in San Francisco. We are taking off. And then it is horses to the races. Right? So if you're listening to this is a little bit of an alter call. Get off the couch and sign up and let's do this. Because that's how it works. It only works if you do it consistently. Right. So we have people that sign up for the Cookie Colleges come for a month, they come for a year, they come for three and a half years. They are just consistent about it. Consistent effort creates consistent results. I wish there was a shortcut. To all this. I wish there was a get rich quick scheme.

[Corey]

I wish marketing was a light switch.

[Heather]

Corey and I said if marketing was easy, everybody would be billionaires. It's not easy. It's strategy and it's consistency and it's making mistakes and it's tweaking and it's increasing your offering, increasing your customer service. And that's frustrating and annoying. And I wish people just buy the cookies. Yeah, but it is so much more than that. And when all of that works together, when you say the course that Jamie was talking about, she was listening to eat that frog book. Two hour listen, guys. Two hour listen.

[Corey]

Nice.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Then we didn't eat that frog. Course I did. I didn't write the book. So it's not even my voice.

[Corey]

Camera down.

[Heather]

Shoot camera down. It's too hot. It's supposed to be 85 degrees today.

[Corey]

Yeah, I believe that.

[Heather]

So if you want to check out the cookie college again, check it [e-mail] I'm working on that fruits class. If you're like, well, I'm interested in classes, I'll have that out next week. I'll do a Facebook live or a zoom, depending on what I feel like and walk you through what is included in those classes. And then you sign up for the. The cookie class. Kids, I think you get what, nine, ten classes. If you sign up for the cookie college, you get the 2023, 2024 and 2024 tons of classes. Twins. I think we're sold out of our Halloween class which is at the last Saturday in October. And then our Christmas class is oddly.

[Corey]

The first week of December.

[Heather]

You and I said we wanted more Christmasy, but yeah, right.

[Corey]

People bought, so.

[Heather]

Right. That one's. I think we have our private class class. I've got to do that today. Cory and I wanted to test doing a private class in house.

[Corey]

In her house.

[Heather]

In her house. And so we can report back what that would be like to you and how that sells out. And if we have to cancel it because it didn't work out, if we get to teach the class, it'd be the first time. Typically I turn down private classes, but Corey said do it for the people.

[Corey]

I said if she. If she comes up to my level of requirements. $85 person, 10 people local.

[Heather]

So we're creating her a custom private class on eventbrite and then having it have a minimum that need to sell or something. Okay, moving on to the. Check that out. Cookiecollege.com thecookiecollege.com. if you have any questions, ask me. We've had a lot of people sign up. I love it. I'll get you in that Facebook group. Don't worry about it. That is a manual thing. We have the STL me about it segments sponsored by Cookie Design Lab use code twins for 15% off. Really, really, really easy to use cookie STL design software, which is cookie cutters. Just real, real simple. I gotta say, real quick, I could produce something in probably two minutes.

[Corey]

So, yeah, like a small book, like a small reader.

[Heather]

Give me small effort for making cutters small. You know, my computer had filled up with space. My bad, my bad. I'm pretty good on computer hygiene. However, a lot of the temp files.

[Corey]

Sure.

[Heather]

From. So I pull up on Windows. You can pull up a thing and it'll tell you where everything and it's like, well, the biggest space hog is apps. The biggest app hog besides Adobe's Photoshop.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Is Fusion. Three seconds. Did you delete it?

[Corey]

No.

[Heather]

Sometimes you need to print other stuff. However, Cookie Design Lab only does cutters, which is what most of us.

[Corey]

And that's. At the end of the day. I don't want to print a dragon.

[Heather]

Okay, these are people who have texted in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, chances twin.

[Corey]

I'm honing in that lady who asked all the really good questions. Am I on the same wavelength? She is number four.

[Heather]

One, two, three. Random story. I had a dream last night that Heather was my best friend. Sorry, Corey. It was very realistic. And now I feel like I've actually met you. That's all. End of the story.

[Corey]

That's hilarious.

[Heather]

Okay, bestie. Happy to tell you your dream came true. Your area code is662.662, that's Nevada, Mississippi. M I, S S I S I. Okay, Mississippi, Mississippi. Email me at heathertriuggercookiemarketing.com in the next seven days and get Cookie Design Lab. And then we'll frolic together in a as our besties.

[Corey]

And I will make a grand entrance in your next one.

[Heather]

That's so funny. I wonder what led to the dream. What do we do? Text in next week and tell me what we did.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And why wasn't Corey there? And we're typically good at the tip. Another question. Hi, twins. Ashley with Dapple Bakery in Houston. This is Ashley. If I win again, please give it to the next person. I don't want to hoard my winnings. Here's my question. I have managed to end up in every Facebook group, spam filter, for the last couple of weeks, especially if I have a link or photo in my post. It's happening even with non sales sales posts. Obviously. It's nearly impossible to advertise sales days if I can't post photos with my copy. Agreed. It's ruining my life. Is there any way to get off Zach's imaginary naughty list or do we need a pause posting? What do I need to wait it out? Okay. Right now we're in this Facebook group that Facebook invites you to. If you run bigger groups or groups that are active or whatever, there's a billion people in. So don't think we're anything special. However, it is all about announcements from this kind of intermediary to. From Zuckerberg to us. And they said there's an issue with the spam filter. Okay. That doesn't solve your problem, but it means you're not on a bad list. Yesterday a member of the cookie college message sent me an email and was like, I'm in spam filter. Can you get me out? So I got her out, but she was there with many others. Yeah, that's my approach right now. I would post in that group if you know it's gone to spam, which typically it should say it's. It's waiting pending approval.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

I would go to a comment and say at one of the admins, would you mind checking the spam filter? Here's what's happening is the spam filter is pretty good. Sometimes it does get a lot of spam.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

I haven't seen a single car wash detailing post in a while.

[Guest/Caller]

I know.

[Heather]

However it is sucking up innocent posts.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And it does not notify the admin team. I said to the lady who emailed me, thank you so much. And she's like, I'm so sorry to bother. I said, if you don't. I don't know.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

That you get sucked up in a spam filter.

[Corey]

Also, also that there's a way to ask. Okay, an admin. If you're like, my post has been there for four hours. What do.

[Heather]

If you're like accusatory.

[Corey]

That's not great. Here's the thing. I joined a bigger group. This like local community group, but it's like got no bar so you can get in and it's got like over 20,000 people in there. The first post I ever made in that group, I did include my link. It's still post pending. There's no way he's not checking his messages.

[Heather]

He's not.

[Corey]

So I'm going To have to change a little bit of moi and put maybe my link in the comment section.

[Heather]

I would say if you feel like you're stuck in purgatory, link in the comment section. Standard issue for a while sometimes and.

[Corey]

I think this is a setting Tell.

[Heather]

Me if I'm wrong.

[Corey]

You can get a post to go through the ugly way with just your text and you can go and edit the post after it's gone through.

[Heather]

I have not seen edited posts end up back up in the spam.

[Corey]

So I'm saying that's another way to try.

[Heather]

But if you're feeling like so the key is always post unique content per group. Okay. Just for that one. Because what we see is that when I see someone post the same content in all groups, it all ends up in the same. I would say what Corey said. Well, you're saying images again. Post it, then edit it. Okay. There is the ability to put edits on post approval. So I want to say you would just have.

[Corey]

I only know one group that does that and I know to not edit because it puts it back in there.

[Heather]

It's almost default off.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

So if they can approve your just text only post and it'll say an admin approved your post or your post will just go up, go in back and edit, add the photos.

[Heather]

Okay. And when you're like, I know this isn't the spam filter, I would say, hey, at admin, I was wondering if you might. If you wouldn't mind checking the spam filter. I think my post got caught up in there. What I see happens is that people are like feel like they're being targeted.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Someone's like, you're letting all. You're deleting all my posts. And I said I've deleted none of your posts. What's happening is you're getting caught in the spam filter. Completely out of my control. Don't take it on me. And now I don't like you. Just kidding. I like them, but don't I. In that local drinking scene group or something, I saw someone's like, they just don't like me. They delete all my posts. All of a sudden all of their posts went up.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So they've complained they got their way but you didn't get in the way you wanted. So I would be very kind in asking them to check. In fact, while Corey and I don't use DMs to manage groups, a lot of the admins do like that. So you could send that DM and it's going to get to them. Right? Okay, great question. Very frustrating. You're not allowed.

[Corey]

Sure, sure.

[Heather]

Hi twins. Since we're talking all about cookie classes this month, I thought I would ask a related question. I started teaching classes this year and I've successfully held two classes. And I'm teaching another class this Saturday. I have an average of about 8 people per class. When my max is 14. I host them in my home. Yay free. But a good friend pointed out that this might be weird. This might weird people out and prevent them from signing up if they don't know me at all. How can I combat this? Is it time to find a public space and host classes? Most places around me cost at least $150 to rent out. Thanks for all you do. The community I've created is truly a such a blessing and I've learned so much. Brianna, there's two strategies here.

[Corey]

Yes, you can always get a more communal place that people know. The local library people know that you know they're not going to get kidnapped when they go to the local library. The other thing, if you do like it at your house because you are saving money, you need to showcase your house. I need to know what I'm walking into.

[Heather]

I posted this this month. We did a private class in an exceptionally hard to get to location. I didn't like it myself. I'm sorry. It was a public class in a work. The workspace. Yeah. You had to go through the back of the building. Put your right foot in, put your foot out, turn yourself around.

[Corey]

We were like you're in the right tape to the first place. You're in the right place.

[Heather]

Yeah. So we had things taped to the door but I also took pictures along the way to say here's where you're going to go if this looks familiar. In the right place.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Not my ideal solution. The hybrid for yours. I like what Corey's saying. Show them your house. If your house is clean and open and airy, let them know about it. Yes, I would be my son myself in this area that we live in, it would be out of the norm to host something at our house. Different towns, different spaces and everything. Your house is beautiful. Bring you to it. Cory and I took a private class at a lady's house. The sourdough lady.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Beautiful house was weird.

[Corey]

Children were yelling.

[Heather]

Okay but that's irrelevant because I'm assuming Brandon and how were kid yelling. But if she. If the lady had said here's what my house looks like. Here's how beautiful the house is.

[Corey]

Beautiful here's the thing I want to say. Mlm. Scentsy. I went to someone's house. It's not out of the realm. People are doing this all the time.

[Heather]

Time.

[Corey]

So I went to Denise's house and I was like, oh, wow, I'm in her house. She didn't clean it up and it was fine.

[Heather]

And it's showcasing you dogging on Denise. I love Denise. Okay. So I would say if you want to test it out at a public place, now we have $150 rental per hour. Assuming this is two hours, we're already looking at $300 loss. We'd need to have that MVP. I would say try to see if you can find a place that will let you in for free. Yeah. And we talk about that. Wineries kind of do it. Breweries are open to it. Kitchen remodeling, showrooms is where we do it. Cafes, pop ups, things that you can say to them. I can bring audience to you. I had somebody say, like, I. They came at was a 6040 split.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And I came and said, let's do 1000 and I'll market you. And they're like, yeah, okay, let's do that.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So try to find that and then test it out.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

But I would say before you go to spend the money, test out showcasing your house. Hey, I just wanted to show you. This is actually the room.

[Heather]

The zero cost option.

[Corey]

Yeah, the room. You're getting in live. Like you're showing us your house.

[Heather]

Now sell me on the features. The reason why I love hosting this here is because anything you need, I can just run to my kitchen to get.

[Corey]

Here's what. The parking situation. We have tons of parking. I have the longest driveway known to me.

[Heather]

You're just going to come right here. And then I would do it in a couple different iterations. A photo.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

A real.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

A story. A Facebook live. Hey, guys. I'm here prepping for this class. We're hosting my house. I'd love to have you. Here's what the setup looks like, and here's everything. You get any issues, no sweat. I can fix it right over here in my kitchen.

[Corey]

Having spouse, an older child. Someone good with the phone. Come and take B roll while you're teaching. That way I see someone in your kitchen chair. I can picture myself in that kitchen.

[Heather]

I really do like that.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And now ask yourself, do you. Is eight a solid number? Is eight profitable?

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Then I wouldn't necessarily want to turn down my eight in exchange for my expensive 14. Right. I agree. So again, a little bit of a math problem. Like I said, I. I like Corey's thing. The freeway is show them it's good. The alternate find a free space.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And then test that. Yeah. I like both of them. Thank you so much for liking the content theme. What we're going to do, what we're going to do, what we're going to dare. If you're listening to this and you have a post to make a tip, life lesson learned about cookie classes. If you use the hashtag September cookie classes month from today to the end of the month, which is only a week. Week or week in a day or something.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah, a week.

[Heather]

We're getting somebody a month of the cookie class kits. It's really to help with content generation. Or you could post something really dramatic.

[Corey]

But I want to say encouraging bakers making more money is what the industry needs. At the end of the day, that's our goal for you to afford your vacation, for you to have a great Christmas, for you to get the new car that you wanted. And classes is a great way to do that. So we're going to encourage people to say they're encouraging words. Even if you learn something not to do. Like, I had it in my house and the water pipe broke and we were rained on. That's great to know. So there's nothing wrong. You don't have to be the best cooking class teacher.

[Heather]

You just have to have had an experience.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

You could even say I used my own website for a class and I saved more money than the twin, say using eventbrite and I'm gonna be like, girl, go. Absolutely.

[Corey]

You could say I tried to host my first class. Only two people signed up. But here's what I learned from that.

[Heather]

Love it. Love it. The content counts as a lesson learned and I want to read it and I want to support you.

[Corey]

Let me take the embarrassment way my mom was the only person to sign.

[Heather]

Up for my first class. And I also want to say you're very protected in that sugar cookie marketing group. Listen, Amy, don't let Amy not gonna let anybody tell you you're bad. So it's a safe place to talk about your mistakes. Here's an interesting one, the last one I'll read. I think it's so. Hi, twins. Alison here from Ontario, Canada. I was wondering if you know anything about the 5:3:1 rule for Instagram and what do you think of it? Thanks so much. And for the podcast and the other things you do. Google Googled it. It's the three by three by three with a twist.

[Corey]

Oh nice. The five three one.

[Heather]

The five three one. This almost sounds. Well, it sounds a little easier. Okay, here it is. Social media engagement strategy where you like five posts you comment thoughtfully. I like that. AI on three posts and you follow one new account daily to increase your profile's visibility and encourage follower growth. Buy. Listen to this word. Consistent. Engaging with others in a targeted way, you can build authentic connections. Okay, the three by three by three rule was find three accounts who follow you and comment on their post. Find three accounts you follow and comment on their post and then find three accounts you don't follow and don't follow you but are probably local and comment on their post. Wash, rinse and repeat. Now they have the 531 rule which is liking 5 comments. Easy to do.

[Corey]

Easy to do mean.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Liking five posts. Yeah, I guess you could do comments commenting on three posts thoughtfully and then following one new account date.

[Corey]

Yeah, that's fantastic.

[Heather]

Real. I'm going to say if you're asking my opinion on this, absolutely any of this kind of strategies, the 180 rule, the 3x3x3 with a 531 whatever. This is it all. It gets you to do the same thing consistently. Output before you expect input.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

A lot of times what we treat social media like is we're just output content post, post, post.

[Heather]

Why isn't it working?

[Corey]

We never come back, we never comment. Look, raising my hand, you can't see.

[Heather]

It right now but I am raising.

[Corey]

My hand and we're wondering why don't I have more engagement? Why are my comments dwindling? Why aren't people ordering? Why?

[Heather]

Because you're shouting at them.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Because you're not having a conversation. Because you're me, me, me, me, me. Why me?

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

If we do you, you, you, you, you also me. What do you think is going to happen? Corey and I guarantee and we've been trying to be better about it. If someone posts in the group, comment on it.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Because one, it's a sign of respect for sure. Two, it's a sign of being interested in something about them. If you're interested in other people, Dale Carney, they will be interested in you. How to win friends and influence people is the book Quick listen. Quick listen. I think four hours. What do you think? Quick, what do you. How longer?

[Corey]

I would say six and a half.

[Heather]

You know what? I did buy it one time time in a CD for seven hours and 15. I was very close. However a real good seven hours.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

They were not within A short book.

[Corey]

Because it was definitely a long read.

[Heather]

If you guys wanted to try Allison's approach, 531, like five posts. Would love that. If that happened to me. Comment. Three thoughtful comments on three posts. I would say these are three different posts. Yeah. Or mix them in there and then follow one new account.

[Corey]

Are you telling me that getting engagement and giving engagement will help me grow? Because there is a baker's collab this Friday.

[Heather]

Very interesting reason you bring that up, Corey. Yeah, thanks for that, that segue.

[Corey]

You're welcome.

[Heather]

There is a collab on Friday. It's the Blind Bakers Reels collab. I've gotten all my copy written and pushed out to you guys. If you registered, you'll get that emailed. If you didn't register and you're still interested, go to the events tab in the sugar cookie marketing group and click on the Blind Bakers Club. I'm accidentally about to buy the that book. I'm touching my phone. Click on the Blind Bakers Reels collab event. And pinned in the comment section is the copy help. Now, Corey graciously did a demonstration of what this reels collab will be. You're going to blind fold yourself and decorate a pumpkin onto a cookie. That is the collab.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Now you're like, that's weird. Yes, it is. And the saying it's part of a collab makes it less weird. I even wrote that in my copy help. The point of this collab, because we always have a marketing component, is to show you that real reels do work.

[Corey]

Reallys, reels really do work.

[Heather]

The twins are struggling with the weirdest.

[Corey]

They really, really are. Here's the thing. The best part about these collabs is other bakers who are also looking at getting more engagement and ending up in more feeds are going to comment thoughtfully on your post so it reaches more people.

[Heather]

Typically, we find that these collab posts warrant more comments than the bakers ever typically get outside of the clubhouse. That's because it's manufactured engagement. It's a part of the collab. But what it does is, like we said with the drama content, which we don't want to post, we want to post content that reaches more people. Well, when it's reached more people, it's shown to more people. When then that and then it's shown.

[Corey]

You get it right.

[Heather]

So the bakers are going to come in and they're going to engage and then the algorithm is going to be like. Well, a lot of people like that. Let me show it to more of this baker's audience. Yes.

[Corey]

And I want to say reels while video, those are hard because you have to put yourself out there.

[Heather]

Someone wrote in your comment section you said, why aren't you doing it? And she was like, I'm scared.

[Corey]

And I said, let's peel that onion down to the core.

[Heather]

You can always delete it.

[Corey]

You can always delete it. But here's the thing. To make it and post it, you're gonna, you're gonna get that first time jitter's gone and the next time after this collab is done said gone, it's gonna feel just a tinge bit easier year. And then you're going to get your running shoes on.

[Guest/Caller]

Right.

[Corey]

You're going to be creating a lot of videos and you're going to be doing what your competition isn't doing and ending up in a lot of for you each.

[Heather]

What do you think South Park? What do you think your business returning clients would think if they saw you? I'd be delighted. Yeah, delighted.

[Corey]

My video dumb.

[Heather]

Your video. I watched it many times.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

Because I like know and trust Corey and now I like know and trust her stupid pumpkin more. Yeah but so the reels collab is on this Friday, September 26th at 11:00am Eastern. You post at 11:00am you use the hashtag SCM Collab Circle. It's pointless. That's the reason we just use them. Just need to find you and then for the next hour you go and we get to watch people record themselves. And, and like I said that last podcast, more of you signed up, but I said it was 46 or 23. Now we have 71 people signed up. So that is a lot of engagement and I'm proud even if half of those people did. Yes.

[Corey]

I want to say if you're like ain't participating but I'll go look at what you guys are doing. I want to say I want you to feel your face muscles if you're smiling slightly. That's what clients are doing when they're watching it.

[Heather]

There you go.

[Corey]

That is what you are connecting. You're connecting to somebody. They're, they're having an involuntary smile reaction.

[Heather]

I like to see people having a good time, but I like to have a little giggle.

[Corey]

If you're enjoying that content, imagine what your clients would be thinking. Is it going to be more difficult than snapping a photo of a cookie?

[Heather]

Yes. Yeah. Is it going to be more nerve wracking because it's of yourself and we're our biggest critics and we hate the way we Look. Yes.

[Corey]

So I said some tips. I made a little post with tips. If you're a scripty person, just have your hands in the video and read your script.

[Heather]

Absolutely. That's.

[Corey]

That little.

[Heather]

A teleprompter never hurt nobody.

[Corey]

That counts. If you are like, I can't think. I say a lot of ums and I don't like the way that sounds. Do a voiceover.

[Heather]

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. No, when I was. I was uploading a reel of my cat. Okay, cool. It was pointless, but I'm not a big editor, so I was clicking on this stuff and it was like, remove umps.

[Corey]

No way.

[Heather]

And add voiceover. It's baked into the Instagram app. Add voiceover. So it wants you to do it. And most people like that type content of content. So that is on Friday. I'd love to have you join us.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Well, listen, I can't wait to see who shows up.

[Heather]

Cannot wait. Speaking of Disney trip planner, and I don't think you were accusing Heather of this, but Heather and Kim did a Facebook Live yesterday. They did. Kim has a brick and mortar. And she was telling us. So she gets to speak from both sides. Yes, she is. Who. She's into wholesaling. They allow her to wholesale. Now, I know you watched that. I was at the office. But she taught that. So if you want to get in the mind of the business owner who would let you wholesale, you're going to want to watch that.

[Corey]

She was. She's got a unique perspective. It's a franchisee. So it's. She works with a franchise, but she is the owner of her franchise, while she's also a home baker.

[Heather]

So she was giving allergy friendly bakes.

[Corey]

She was giving tips on how to approach someone who has a brick and mortar. Should you bring up contracts? Should you not bring up contracts?

[Heather]

Her perspective is very unique.

[Corey]

Oh, it was very unique. She had just interesting answers that I. Because I would always, always think, have a contract so you could always weasel out of the contract.

[Heather]

She said, no.

[Corey]

With a franchise, with a franchisor, the person above her, she's like, if they wanted to pull it at any given time, I'd have to say, I can no longer sell it. They don't want it. So I can't do a contract opposite.

[Heather]

Of what I thought. It makes a ton of sense.

[Guest/Caller]

I know.

[Heather]

So you can watch that. I know. We did. Bonnie Bradley had a Facebook Live. You can now watch that on YouTube. And Andrea Forte did a live on square websites, which you can I gotta upload that to YouTube. But it's still available in the cookie sugar cookie marketing group.

[Corey]

Nice, nice. Lots of events. Lots of.

[Heather]

Lots of stuff. Lots of good stuff. I'm working on the Venny Blenny. Okay. I'm so sorry. My vendies. I'm coming. I didn't forget you.

[Corey]

I'm very excited because we started so early last year.

[Heather]

They're like the reason why. The reason why you're like, did I use anything? Is because we had increased the discount last year and I didn't think I was going to sign up so I needed to get it started earlier to see where my gaps were. Yeah, you guys are all coming back. I love that we're doing that. 25% off and I'll get that sign up. I have to create my landing page.

[Corey]

Cage Heather loves a Lamb.

[Heather]

It starts with branding and I had to go back and I had to grab my branding for the Bendy Blendy this year it's going to be a burnt or orange with some.

[Corey]

A little burnt orange.

[Heather]

A little burnt, A little burnt.

[Corey]

Isn't it always a little burnt?

[Heather]

It was a little spicy last time. I want to go more burnt, more fall crisp orange. I don't know. And autumn and autumn wet them winch. You have a twin trust. We didn't go through sponsors. You want to do that first? Oh, my dad.

[Corey]

My bad. First foremost.

[Heather]

Oh, Kim. It was interesting. Kim was a guest on the podcast and we said if you could tweak one thing about the podcast podcasts, what would you do? And she's like, the way you talk about the sponsors is boring. Boring.

[Corey]

Okay, hit me with something.

[Heather]

Okay, let me think about it. I'm going to tell you a product this, this company would sell. I want you to give me the discount code only.

[Corey]

That's too hard for me.

[Heather]

Okay. Yeah, we've been saying this. No mixer.

[Guest/Caller]

Sugar cookies.

[Heather]

That is. It should new to mail use code. Sugar cookies. That's affiliate. You save 20 bucks, they pay us 20 bucks.

[Guest/Caller]

Nice.

[Heather]

I want to make this more difficult. Okay. I'm going to try an obscure product that this person offers.

[Guest/Caller]

Okay.

[Heather]

Dusting. Okay.

[Corey]

Is it.

[Heather]

I just know.

[Corey]

Royal batch.

[Heather]

Okay.

[Corey]

With code is twins.

[Heather]

What's it say?

[Corey]

10%.

[Heather]

Got it. So they have like a cornstarch duster powder.

[Corey]

Everyone always asking my videos. Where did you get that cookie duster? It's actually a corn starch duster and a diamond is the end of it. And it has a very pink, fluffy dust.

[Heather]

You guys always ask me.

[Corey]

Yeah. You always Ask. That's where I got it.

[Heather]

I think the 10% off can go for that too.

[Corey]

I think so.

[Heather]

But meringue powder is what we typically talk about. Plunger.

[Corey]

Okay. That is Daisy makes.

[Heather]

Yes. And I don't believe we have a discount code, so I'll let you off of that one. But it's all the things you need to make cake pops. Yeah, cake pops. What's the difference between a cake pop and a cake puck?

[Corey]

Okay, cake puck is a. Like where you put a cake in, you know, a chocolate covered Oreo. Instead of Oreo, you put cake in there.

[Heather]

That's a cake puck. But it has that shape with a flat bottom. It's chocolate.

[Corey]

It's just circular and a drizzle on top most of the time.

[Guest/Caller]

Calling.

[Corey]

And there's cake inside. But a cake pop and a cake pop disc. Chocolate disc. And that's where you dip it in wafers. Technically not even chocolate.

[Heather]

Excuse me. Excuse me. Got her.

[Corey]

This is the STL me about it.

[Heather]

Cookie design lab Code. Favorite twin. No code twins. 15% off.

[Guest/Caller]

Okay.

[Heather]

Wow. Hard take there.

[Corey]

Literally just talked about this.

[Heather]

I know. I just couldn't remember the discount code. That's what's right. Okay. Supply. I already.

[Guest/Caller]

Okay.

[Heather]

Sorry. I didn't know what else to say.

[Corey]

Crazy.

[Heather]

I should have says sprinkle.

[Guest/Caller]

Darn.

[Heather]

Code. Favorite twin. 4, 15, 10.

[Corey]

10% off.

[Heather]

We'll be doing a quiz next week. We will be doing last Never Least.

[Corey]

Eddie 0 discount code.

[Heather]

Shoot.

[Corey]

The silence gave it away.

[Heather]

No discount code there. But Eddie, the edible food printer is hosting and they told me to tell you about. About this it's attractive food printer. You definitely need to check it out. I would. It's the wildest thing I've ever seen in my life. However, they're hosting their first ever Eddie Con in January. And you can sign up on Primera's [e-mail]. yeah.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

But if you don't know how to navigate that website, definitely go to the Eddie Printers user group on Facebook and they post about it there.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Okay. Do you have twins? I do, actually. Okay. I'm trying to find my perfumer. Absolutely nobody in my entire life has ever stopped me and said, I smell good. I don't sure if I'm not doing interesting.

[Corey]

No one's ever stopped you. Not many people have stopped me.

[Heather]

Right. I'm gonna. I'm gonna be bold and say no one. Okay. So Cory and I sometimes obviously we got big sniffers. So we let listen.

[Corey]

We go to Bath and Body.

[Heather]

Yes. Scent hates to see Us coming. So we went to bath and body works. And I like the leaves and pumpkin bonfire.

[Guest/Caller]

Okay.

[Heather]

Then we went to Sephora and I said, let's just smell the walls of perfume. I hate to say this. Some of them smell like when you go to a public restroom and they just cleaned it with lavender. Toilet bowl wash. Yeah, that's that floral scent too. And you know, people things differently and then it lays on your skin differently. Sure. We just started sniffing around and we said, we'll stop at the one we like. Last year it was ginger biscuit. This year we got to Tom Ford. Let me tell you my wallet scratch.

[Corey]

Let me tell you the man knows his worth.

[Heather]

We found the tobacco vanilla.

[Corey]

Tobacco vanilla.

[Heather]

And Corey. And I said, wow, that's a very interesting smell.

[Corey]

It's a unique smell. I'm not going to say you're going to. It's a must.

[Heather]

Rich Holland holiday. Rich holiday, I said. And it felt smelled like it had staying power. So we spray it on Cory's arm. I smelled like a toilet. So Heather was spraying too much.

[Corey]

When I go in there, I can only spray one smell.

[Heather]

Right.

[Corey]

So I choose very specific.

[Heather]

So we sprayed Corey with it. Power walked them all. I left smelling around. I said, that smells delectable. The price ridic. 300 bucks. I said, got no. So I google it. Yeah, okay. I google it. That was a key here. Later I'm meandering through my phone. I get targeted in an ad for a company's sole purpose is duping expensive smells.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Dossier, dossier. Not a clue. D o s S I e r. It said, hey, listen, we got a Tom Ford dupe. 30 bucks. 37. I say, still 37 too high. X actually, 39 too high. Get away from me. I'm cheap. Then they were like, girl, what if we gave you a discount code if you bought 2, 10% off. So I text Corey, listen, listen. Not $300.

[Corey]

Did text these words. One for one did poop.

[Heather]

Said the reviews. I read the dossier. Reviews. Okay. What else am I supposed to do? I can't smell the thing. I bought it. Corey bought it. We sprayed it on our arms. We went to season 52 and we asked Sean, the waiter that's been there for 10 years. I said, could you smell this smell and tell me what you think about it? He said, it's so funny. It smells like this perfume. I have called Tom Ford tobacco vanilla.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So we waddle our little waddly butts back up to Sephora and we do a one for one. One Test. We smell like the dossier dupe. We spray the Tom for it. They're pretty. Pretty darn close.

[Corey]

We said, if you're thinking of the two people, one person actually still listening, who might even consider buying. We said the dossier, more of a vanilla smell.

[Heather]

The Tom Ford, more of a tobacco smell. I feel like the Tom Ford could be more of a unisex smell.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Heather]

Versus maybe the dossier dossier one aired towards.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Feminine.

[Corey]

When I say Tom Ford, it's a darker smell. I don't know. Does that make sense? Richer, darker, richer, masculine.

[Heather]

I tell you, it's also $300 ears.

[Corey]

But you can get a small one, right?

[Heather]

You could get a $75. Like, very, very small, Small, small, small, small. Tester. However, interestingly, my little sister says, where did you guys. When did you guys go to Target? When she sees the dossier dossier bottle? And I said, I did. And I ordered this on. She said, target just dropped. They did tobacco vanille dossier dupe in Target.

[Corey]

Is it in a small one or an actual.

[Heather]

She said, exactly. The things you're holding is what is in the front of that store.

[Corey]

So funny.

[Heather]

So if you wanted to go smell it, you could. It is in Targets. I guess.

[Corey]

It is so funny.

[Heather]

That's my twin twist.

[Corey]

My twin twist is I did get the exhaust on. They never got the fruition of the story. We were mid. Getting the exhaust on.

[Heather]

Oh, yeah. When you dropped off the car. Well, okay. We're at lunch. They call me. Can you. Are you by yourself already? About problem. Problematic question.

[Guest/Caller]

Yes.

[Heather]

I said, kind of ish. What are you gonna say? Like, my mom died. Yeah, okay. No. They were like, you bought the wrong exhaust. And I said, buddy, like, there is one. When you did the filter. There's one. They're like, yeah, it's for the faster car.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

And I was like, well, shoot, bud. I know. They're like, we're already knee deep in this. What do you want us to do? And I was like, what are my options? They said, we can make it work. And I said, well, that sounds Jerry. Rich.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

So the guy there likes cars. The kid that was talking to Will. I said, they will. You put it on. I'll pay you for the cost of putting on. If it looks weird, we take it off. He said, yes. So he puts it on and he sends the pictures.

[Corey]

I want to say the first, regrettably.

[Heather]

The car was 10ft in the air. The car was.

[Corey]

You never see a car 10ft in the air.

[Heather]

And I tell Corey, listen, I call the guy back. I said, well, put it on the ground, put it on the ground, put it on the ground. Let's just see what it looks like. The minute he takes the pictures from the ground level of which it's very.

[Corey]

Pretty low look great.

[Heather]

Cory was stoked. They put in a small spacer and they got it to work. It did take absolutely all done. It took a long time, which is where we ran our Tom Ford test. It was a long day, but then we got it on. You're happy with it?

[Corey]

I listen. I feel popular.

[Heather]

Are you outside of your now teen ricer era.

[Corey]

I feel like child. I just got diagnosed. Here's the thing. Went to pick Archer up at school. The. The. The exhaust Heather got me isn't like where you hear me all the time.

[Heather]

Everybody has turned off the podcast now. But keep going, it's okay. Cause now it's just you don't hear.

[Corey]

It all the time. Which I like. I don't want to be annoying all the time like I am in person. I want to be annoying some of the time. So when I start it, that's its juiciest time.

[Heather]

Cold start.

[Corey]

Cold start is the.

[Heather]

But then it kind of quiets down.

[Corey]

It does quiet down.

[Heather]

But when you get on it and.

[Corey]

I don't always get on it. So when I'm just cruising through traffic like normal, you don't really. It's not very annoying if I'm the first at the traffic light and I want to get to the 40 miles per hour quick, quickly.

[Heather]

You do hear it really probably what you want. Archer.

[Corey]

The seniors in his class drive. Two of them drive. I've surmised this from she goes to a private school.

[Heather]

That's where it was only two. It's a tiny, tiny school.

[Corey]

So two of them have cars. So every senior goes and hangs out at these two cars at the end of the school. Oh yeah. Arch has not cused the friendship of the seniors. Granted we're new at the school.

[Heather]

Don't they call him like $ boo or something? Doesn't have a nickname. They call him nickname because he needed one of them gave him a dollar.

[Corey]

Oh yeah. Big.

[Heather]

Big A or something. I think big A.

[Corey]

So Arch comes to my car and I said I could in my mind.

[Heather]

Let me make this guy. Are you a 15 year old boy popular? Are you? Should I see?

[Corey]

Should I cold star in front of this group?

[Heather]

I'm there. I'm there because I'm.

[Corey]

Am I? Is it embarrassing that your mom has an exhaust or is it cool? Archdeacon Thinks it's a little cool. Oh, a little cool. He never thinks anything. He thought it was cool when it started. He said that was loud.

[Heather]

Thank you so much.

[Corey]

Is that cool? Is that bad?

[Guest/Caller]

My husband.

[Heather]

On the scale of 1 through 10 of gifts.

[Corey]

10.

[Heather]

10. A 10 because of the delivery.

[Corey]

The delivery one. It was something I. I did want.

[Heather]

Can you send me that video by the way? Oh, you will.

[Corey]

It was something I really did want. I would Nair. Let me tell you in the gifts monetary value. This was probably the most expensive gift I've ever gotten.

[Heather]

It was. And it constitutes a lot of holidays upcoming.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Corey]

I'm going to give you a full 365.

[Heather]

Here's a reason why. And listen, the gift was too expensive. It was. It was its value. Right?

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Heather]

Because I'm minimal. Ish.

[Guest/Caller]

Yes.

[Heather]

If I bought something somebody really wanted that was a fix to their car they're keeping for years to me it.

[Corey]

Was still too much to spend on a gear.

[Heather]

Oh, okay. Twin. But twin. Twin. I.

[Corey]

If you ask me if there's anything I want for in life, truly I don't want anything. That was something on my kind of want it. I kind of want it and it.

[Heather]

Worked out and thank you Advanced autotech. You were a gem. Will.

[Corey]

I'm a kwaggwali.

[Heather]

Kwe is a Kagua Guela.

[Corey]

So thank you for everyone who tuned off now.

[Heather]

Now you guys are not listening but this will continue. This. We shall.

[Corey]

We shall.

[Heather]

Let's get some air in this room. Let's get some.